Remember shelling out $50.00 at Dave's Video The Laser Place (http://www.venturablvd.com/studio_city/SDC89794.html) for a laserdisc copy many years ago? :) Ahh memories. That place is awesome I get to meet directors, writers, actors :eek: once in a while. I love the score by J. Goldsmith by the way and Steve McQueen's best performance.

Its good to know that Fox so called treatment of catalog Blu-ray releases using DNR and EE does not affect all titles. This one was left alone and it shows Its by far the most detailed and sharpest compared to the waxy appearance of Patton and Longest Day. This is how HD releases is done. None of that artificial enhancements to make it look like a videogame. Its cinematic.

Having said that why did Fox choose Mpeg-2 for this? AVC not good enough? ;) But seriously why? Now don't get me wrong Mpeg-2 has been proven very good codec if done right like Black Hawk Down and Kingdom Of Heaven. But this one has some very minor artifacting and blocking on some scenes. Case in point the boxing match. This may not be noticeable with your viewing sets and its none like those blocking we see from broadcast. I think its time for studios to use the advanced codecs exclusively for HD releases. They are more efficient.

The Sand Pebbles Website (http://www.thesandpebbles.com/)


Total Video
Title Codec Length Movie Size Disc Size Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track Secondary Audio Track
----- ------ ------- -------------- -------------- ------- ------- ------------------ ---------------------
The Sand Pebbles MPEG-2 3:02:33 33,297,426,432 39,457,412,972 24.32 18.02 DTS-HD Master 5.1 3705Kbps (48kHz/24-bit) DD AC3 4.0 320Kbps


PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name: 00019.mpls
Size: 33,297,426,432 bytes
Length: 3:02:33 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate: 24.32 Mbps
Description:

FILES:

Name Size Length Time In Time Out
---- ---- ------ ------- --------
00028.M2TS 33,297,426,432 3:02:33 0:00:00 3:02:33

VIDEO:

Codec Bitrate Description
----- ------- -----------
MPEG-2 Video 18022 kbps 1080p / 23.976fps

AUDIO:

Codec Language Bitrate Description
----- -------- ------- -----------
DTS-HD Master Audio English 3705 kbps 5.1 / 48kHz / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 1536kbps)
Dolby Digital Audio English 320 kbps 4.0 / 48kHz
Dolby Digital Audio English 224 kbps 2.0 / 48kHz
Dolby Digital Audio English 224 kbps 2.0 / 48kHz
Dolby Digital Audio French 224 kbps 2.0 / 48kHz
Dolby Digital Audio Spanish 224 kbps 2.0 / 48kHz

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/ec035e02.pnghttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/d7aecdf2.png

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/a18deac8.pnghttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/7695122d.png

Xylon's cranking them out.

Thanks Xylon ! Looking foward to it. Some of the bar scenes and engine room camera work please.

Art

Looking forward to the comparisons. Now if we could only get a properly done release of The Great Escape.

Gary

Well hell, if this isn't great timing. I literally just finished watching this 40 minutes ago.

Bring 'em on!

And before the caps show up, just let me say that I was very impressed with this disc! This is proof that FOX can do a great job on these older titles.

This is a very film like presentation. Grain is present, but is not obtrusive at all. No DNR that I could detect. Contrast is very impressive. Blacks are black, and there is excellent shadow detail. The print is very clean for a film of its age. Detail and sharpness are pretty good too. Colors seemed to be pretty good too.

I know this isn't the thread for it, but man, what a superb job Fox did with the SOUND! Very impressive for a movie of this vintage.

Overall this ranks up there with the very best I have seen yet for anything close to its age.

Looking forward to seeing the caps, and whether they match what I saw. ;)

Thanks Xylon. Searchers comparison caps are available here though it may not be as good as the pics you post.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews38/the-searchers_blu-ray.htm

I know this isn't the thread for it, but man, what a superb job Fox did with the SOUND! Very impressive for a movie of this vintage.


There were several moments when Goldsmith's superb score would reach for a crescendo and I would cringe, expecting distortion or at least painful audio peak limiting. And the dynamics would just expand and expand, and not break up at all.

Gorgeous sound. Some of the dialog is not as clean as the score is, but impressive nonetheless.

Something else even more off-topic. I recently re-read the Richard McKenna novel from which the film was adapted. This has to be one of the most faithful novel-to-film adaptations ever made. There are contractions and omissions and rearrangements as you would expect, and certain shifts in emphasis to keep the store more emotionally centered, but by and large it is the novel come to life.

If you love this movie as much as I do, the best "extra" you could hope for would be to go read the novel.

Well hell, if this isn't great timing. I literally just finished watching this 40 minutes ago.

Bring 'em on!

And before the caps show up, just let me say that I was very impressed with this disc! This is proof that FOX can do a great job on these older titles.

This is a very film like presentation. Grain is present, but is not obtrusive at all. No DNR that I could detect. Contrast is very impressive. Blacks are black, and there is excellent shadow detail. The print is very clean for a film of its age. Detail and sharpness are pretty good too. Colors seemed to be pretty good too.

I know this isn't the thread for it, but man, what a superb job Fox did with the SOUND! Very impressive for a movie of this vintage.

Overall this ranks up there with the very best I have seen yet for anything close to its age.

Looking forward to seeing the caps, and whether they match what I saw. ;)

Thanks for the mini review and for confirming what most reasonable users should expect anyway - Fox messed up two movies, but it is not like they cannot get it right.

An interesting tidbit: Robert Wise wanted to do this in 70mm, just like the three musicals Westside Story, The Sound of Music and Star!, but Fox would not let him - too expensive. And too bad for us.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/d58ea15a.pnghttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/587ba3b9.png

Beautiful, film-like shots. This is what Blu-ray should be about.

It's interesting to note that back when it was released a print was submitted to the BBFC that ran 243 minutes ( according to IMDB )

I checked the BBFC site and it says in 1967 they submitted a 70mm roadshow print and that it was cut ( no details available on cuts ) That version runs 196 minutes. ( Although reports elsewhere suggest 195 minutes )

Has anyone ever saw a 243 minute cut of the film or was this just a workprint ?


A good site with some information on the film and director Robert Wise below:

http://www.thesandpebbles.com/index.html

http://www.thesandpebbles.com/wise/robert_wise.html

From the above site it says:

"The Sand Pebbles" was the first time I worked on a film with major water scenes, and that drove me up the wall. Our gunboat was built from scratch in Hong Kong. It was designed with a flat bottom and under the rear deck there were two big diesel engines that actually propelled her for our picture purposes. In Taiwan, I shot in a river called Tam Sui. It was a tidewater river--about one mile out was the China Strait--so I had only a couple of miles of navigable water there, and when the tide was out, my boat would be sitting on the bottom. I had no way of getting the hundreds and hundreds of miles of the Yangtze River there, so all the additional shots of the San Pablo going up the various waters of the Yangtze were shot around the edges of Hong Kong and the mainland there. Hong Kong has no river, nor has the mainland at that point, but off the edge of the mainland and the island are little spots of land. By very carefully placing the camera so that we had a bank on either side, we made it look like the river.

"It's very difficult working with boats in water. Every time we had to make another take, it took a long time to swing her around and get her back in the right position. We had a lot of weather problems in Taiwan. We would often go out with four, five different calls to shoot different scenes, depending on the conditions. If the tide was out, we had to try to shoot things on the deck where you wouldn't see the water. If it was a good day and the wind was blowing from the bow, I had to shoot a certain set of scenes because the smoke would have to match. If the wind was coming from the other way, I'd shoot another set of scenes. I'd have another call if the wind wasn't a factor. I'd have still another one if it was overcast; then I'd be doing a winter scene instead of a summer scene. If the weather was impossible and it rained, as it often did, we'd go inside a small studio in Taipei where we built some cover sets. We went on so long having trouble with the weather that we were running out of cover sets. We had already built the crews quarters on the stage in Hollywood but we got so scared of running out of work that the studio dismantled that set, flew it over to Taipei, and we eventually did all the scenes in the crew's quarters there.

"We were on the shooting schedule for eight and a half months, by far the longest I've ever been on. A great part of it was caused by the irrational weather. It was so frustrating sometimes. When you go out on a day to shoot, it just kills you as a director not to get at least some kind of simple shot, even if it's just an insert. I went out there one day; it was a gray, moody day. There wasn't anything I could shoot. I wanted to get a shot of the stern of the boat with the American flag hanging against this dark, foreboding sky. That was the only thing I could think of shooting until the weather straightened out. We got the shot all lined up. The wind was blowing and we couldn't hold the San Pablo. We had a tugboat on one side trying to hold her. She was swinging back and forth, left and right, ruining everything. Just as we were about to turn the cameras on it, a puff of wind would come, or a cable would break, and she would swing. After two hours, I said, 'That's it! I've had it! Wrap everything up get my shoreboat.' I just couldn`t take it anymore. That was the only time I ever walked off a set. It was the most difficult location I ever tackled.

"I've often wondered if maybe I tried to tell too many stories in The Sand Pebbles. It was a multiple-story film--the story of the ship and the Captain. The story of Holman, the story of Frenchy and Maily, the story of the mission and the missionaries. I've wondered if, in terms of interest and length, I should almost have cut out the Frenchy/Maily story. I would have saved time, but I liked the story and thought that Dick Attenborough and Marayat Andriane were very touching. Also, I wanted to try to do the book and that was a very important part of it. You look back on films sometimes and if they have not been as all-out successful as you anticipated you try to find reasons why maybe it didn't come off for audiences as well as you would have liked."

Great looking transfer.

People wonder why bluray is not catching on that fast. I dont think the difference is what most people would notice nor care about.

Its looks slightly better yes, but is it worth a rebuy?

People wonder why bluray is not catching on that fast. I dont think the difference is what most people would notice nor care about.

Its looks slightly better yes, but is it worth a rebuy?


If you're a big fan of the movie, I'd say yes.

Its looks slightly better yes,

I'd say it's night and day.

but is it worth a rebuy?

Yep. Although this is obviously a value judgment and everyone will have to decide that for himself.

People wonder why bluray is not catching on that fast. I dont think the difference is what most people would notice nor care about.

Its looks slightly better yes, but is it worth a rebuy?

On my modest setup -- I'm 6 feet from a 42" 1080p Aquos -- the difference is immense. But it's a difference that is only partly captured by these screen shots.

The difference is most noticeable in long, panoramic shots where the camera captured great depth of field so there is a lot of detail uniformly from foreground to background. To see that much detail in motion is what "cinematic" is all about, and in "The Sand Pebbles" it's there from the first shot.

You also notice that in shots with less depth of field, where the distant background is not in sharp focus, in-focus foreground elements don't "pop" out unnaturally, but instead are still clearly part of the same photographic frame. This is indicates that no inappropriate digital processing was applied.

Isn't this the same HD transfer that was done for the SE DVD a couple of years ago?

People wonder why bluray is not catching on that fast. I dont think the difference is what most people would notice nor care about.

Its looks slightly better yes, but is it worth a rebuy?

It sure is worth it to me. Now the question is why Fox did this one correctly and not the films like Patton, Longest Day???

The Sand Pebbles looks great on Blu Ray.

It is interesting though, that the increased detail allows you to actually see more grain than on the standard DVD. At least by looking at that last shot of the 2.

I can appreciate the film like transfer of The Sand Pebbles, just as I can the cleaned up Patton and TLD.

I don't believe Fox would arbitrarily clean up Patton and TLD and leave The Sand Pebbles with a film like quality without a reason.

They must know something we don't, regarding the original theatrical versions of Patton and TLD.

I don't believe Fox would arbitrarily clean up Patton and TLD and leave The Sand Pebbles with a film like quality without a reason.

They must know something we don't, regarding the original theatrical versions of Patton and TLD.

Explaining transfers that went wrong by saying that the studios know what they are doing would essentially mean that the studio always get the best possible picture quality and therefore we can close down most of the forums that discuss DVD and HD software based on audio and picture quality.

I would rather think that the transfers of Patton and The Longest Day went VERY wrong and that this is not uncommon when there are a lot of people involved in such a project - only one person has to get things wrong and the work of all the others was in vain.

BTW: This is a paragraph about Mr. Bernstein who was in charge of the Sand Pebbles and NOT of Patton and The Lonngest Day as I would strongly believe after reading this:

Although Bernstein is correcting obvious flaws in the surviving material, he is avoiding any sort of heavy image processing or grain reduction. “It’s not my intention to do any of that,” he says. “To begin with, there’s not a lot of grain structure to The Sand Pebbles, and it looks pretty good. There are a number of grain-reducing tools I could throw at it that would involve additional rendering, but film has a grain structure, and I like to keep as much of that as necessary to maintain the look of film. That’s something Fox is concerned about as well.

People wonder why bluray is not catching on that fast. I dont think the difference is what most people would notice nor care about.

Its looks slightly better yes, but is it worth a rebuy?

Given a properly sized display and the correct viewing distance I cannot see how one would not call this a VERY significant improvement over the DVD.

If the DVD and HD versions of a movie are done right there will not be as much difference as with a bad DVD and a proper HD transfer. Good examples for stellar HD transfers and bad DVDs would be Casino Royale and King Kong. I can only speculate that their DVD versions were dumbed down in order to make the HD versions better in comparisons.

Given a properly sized display and the correct viewing distance I cannot see how one would not call this a VERY significant improvement over the DVD.

If the DVD and HD versions of a movie are done right there will not be as much difference as with a bad DVD and a proper HD transfer.

Since all of this is subjective, one's significant improvement may be another's minimal difference. Although I find the Blu-ray shots to be markedly improved, my first thought when looking at the comparisons was that most people I know would not care about the differences displayed here, which I'd label significant but fairly subtle. I subscribed to this thread and the Passage to India thread partly to monitor how many people would comment on there not being enough of a difference in the captures to warrant the extra money of HD.

I really wonder how many consumers will be impressed with just increased resolution, improved color, and lossless audio if the images don't "wow" them and pop off the screen. I didn't see this coming as a problem for HD media, but since a forum like this one seems to have a significant portion of posters who prefer the demo-material-looking-through-the-window transfers, I am concerned about how studios will deal with this going forward.

Transfer looks decent. Worth about $15. Too bad for all the suckers who blew $30-$40 on this one. LOL.

Transfer looks decent. Worth about $15. Too bad for all the suckers who blew $30-$40 on this one. LOL.

Thank you for your very... "special" opinion.

I will definitely pick this one up when I can find it for $10-14. The PQ looks great.

Transfer looks decent. Worth about $15. Too bad for all the suckers who blew $30-$40 on this one. LOL.

You have a problem pal.

Art

Very, Very, Meh on the upgrade from DVD

I don't mean to be flippant or disrespectful with this comment, but I wonder if there are eyesight or other visual chain issues (such as monitor) with some of the people who don't see a significant difference between the DVD and BRD.

On my monitor, to my eyes, and given my visual aptitudes, the BRD is excellent looking and contains significantly more detail and better color than the DVD. Short of a 4K transfer, I don't know what more anyone could expect.

I will definitely pick this one up when I can find it for $10-14. The PQ looks great.

GCO via buy.com until 6/30, baby! :D Oh, sorry, that would be $15. Is that close enough? ;)

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/b52366f6.pnghttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/4cb98d45.png

Transfer looks decent. Worth about $15. Too bad for all the suckers who blew $30-$40 on this one. LOL.

I bought Meet The Spartans for $19.99. I bought The Sand Pebbles for $24.99. The Sand Pebbles is worth it.

you........ bought meet the spartans....

why?

I don't mean to be flippant or disrespectful with this comment, but I wonder if there are eyesight or other visual chain issues (such as monitor) with some of the people who don't see a significant difference between the DVD and BRD.

On my monitor, to my eyes, and given my visual aptitudes, the BRD is excellent looking and contains significantly more detail and better color than the DVD. Short of a 4K transfer, I don't know what more anyone could expect.

+1

For Pete's sake, this is a huge upgrade. Just scanning the images quickly I see tons of difference. It's worth the asking price.

I can see why many folks are willing to pay $24-34 for this movie if they are fans. It looks incredible compared to the DVD version. My experience with Fox titles (new releases and catalog) is that if you are patient you can get them for $12-20. I have never seen this movie and am anxious to buy it, but can wait for a sale.

I don't mean to be flippant or disrespectful with this comment, but I wonder if there are eyesight or other visual chain issues (such as monitor) with some of the people who don't see a significant difference between the DVD and BRD.

On my monitor, to my eyes, and given my visual aptitudes, the BRD is excellent looking and contains significantly more detail and better color than the DVD. Short of a 4K transfer, I don't know what more anyone could expect.

Something is definitely amiss with those who can't clearly see the difference on their monitor.

I wasn't going to repeat my post about TSP from another thread but since there are more than a few "mehs" regarding this one, I will repeat it.
IMO, a reference disc all around, content, PQ and a hugely pleasant surprise on the SQ. Although to me, the soundtrack is a bit limited in the upper frequency, it is still superb.
Compare this soundtrack to The Professionals and it is no contest.
It's like the difference between so-so DD and first-rate TruHD
I have the DVD and obviously the latest release, and there is a significant difference between the 2.
But regardless of the DVD quality, this one is just beautiful.
I sincerely think people are missing out who judge the PQ by these(excellent) screencaps alone.
If you like The Sand Pebbles, you like film.

I wasn't going to repeat my post about TSP from another thread but since there are more than a few "mehs" regarding this one, I will repeat it.
IMO, a reference disc all around, content, PQ and a hugely pleasant surprise on the SQ. Although to me, the soundtrack is a bit limited in the upper frequency, it is still superb.
Compare this soundtrack to The Professionals and it is no contest.
It's like the difference between so-so DD and first-rate TruHD
I have the DVD and obviously the latest release, and there is a significant difference between the 2.
But regardless of the DVD quality, this one is just beautiful.
I sincerely think people are missing out who judge the PQ by these(excellent) screencaps alone.
If you like The Sand Pebbles, you like film.

Milt, you had recommended this to me in that other thread that you are referring to, and I haven't thanked you yet. So.....thank you!

I was hugely impressed with this title in terms of PQ and, possibly even more, the SQ considering the films age. And what a performance by McQueen. :cool:

Milt, you had recommended this to me in that other thread that you are referring to, and I haven't thanked you yet. So.....thank you!

I was hugely impressed with this title in terms of PQ and, possibly even more, the SQ considering the films age. And what a performance by McQueen. :cool:

+1

Milt, you had recommended this to me in that other thread that you are referring to, and I haven't thanked you yet. So.....thank you!

I was hugely impressed with this title in terms of PQ and, possibly even more, the SQ considering the films age. And what a performance by McQueen. :cool:
My pleasure, Rob.
It's always nice to introduce a great film to someone who appreciates film.
If only all discs\films were treated this way.

Special thanks to "rdclark" who posted about the sound quality here and on the AVSforum review section. I'm a sound guy and I'm glad a few folks here mentioned it also! :)

Also if I'm not mistaken, it looks like the DVD transfer of this wasn't so shabby. The Patton and Longest DAY DVD grabs look much worse IMHO.

Wow that looks like crap. It actually looks like a real filmed movie. WTF is my CGI/oil painted look?;)

I'll probably pick this title up down the line since it looks pretty good. Thanks for the comparo shots

you........ bought meet the spartans....

why?


err 3D POP!? :D

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/e510014d.pnghttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/354be794.png

This is a very film like presentation. Grain is present, but is not obtrusive at all. No DNR that I could detect. Contrast is very impressive. Blacks are black, and there is excellent shadow detail. The print is very clean for a film of its age. Detail and sharpness are pretty good too. Colors seemed to be pretty good too.

I know this isn't the thread for it, but man, what a superb job Fox did with the SOUND! Very impressive for a movie of this vintage.I just watched this and completely agree with your thoughts - I also agree with how surprisingly good the film sounded.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/2a8caf40.pnghttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/7aebd8b9.png

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/8f1e97f6.pnghttp://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/adzez/The%20Sand%20Pebbles/dc556610.png

but with the high praise the movie gets I have just put it in my NetFlix queue.

you........ bought meet the spartans....

why?

my thoughts exactly.

my thoughts exactly.

Its my moment of insanity :p

Its now only $13.99 at Fry's electronics. Everyday price :)