New interview and video from IGN. It's looking really good.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/883/883686p1.html

Destruction in video games is one of the next big frontiers for innovation. Remember 15 to 20 years ago, before the age of 3D acceleration, "3D" games were built out of scaled, two-dimensional sprites and textures? That's what destruction in games is like right now. It's a series of magic tricks like model swapping and particle effects that give the illusion of destruction.

In RFG, all of the destruction is physics based and functions like you would expect in the real world. We model material properties, load-bearing physics, mass, and momentum to model in-game destruction events. Nothing ever crumbles the same way twice, and you really need to experience it in motion to appreciate it.


The destruction is persistent. If you wreck up a building, drive to the other side of the world, then come back 10 hours later, the building will be in exactly the same condition you left it in. Now for gameplay reasons sometimes things get repaired over time, like bridges, because that can make driving easier. But that's not any kind of technical limitation. We could leave the bridge from my example destroyed, no problem, but there are critical structures that the EDF would certainly want to repair in the game.


It's a huge world, and for reference it is larger than the world in Saints Row. Please don't tell the Saints Row team I said that, okay? To be fair, they've got people in hot dog suits with samurai swords, and RFG doesn't.


You can attack convoys, join in guerrilla raids, mine for ore, collect salvage for new and upgraded weapons, try destruction challenges—for starters—but there's also a deep world to mess around in. There are these small, blue hydrogen tanks which explode when shot, and you can pick them up and move them around. Put them in trucks. Put remote charges on them. Wire a building with them so you can bring the whole thing down without using other explosives. It's one small feature that interacts and combines with destruction and the rest of the world in a complex way.

You know, I think this environment destruction angle found here as well as Bad Company and LucasArts upcoming shooter is one of the main things that Hideo Kojima may have been talking about when he expressed some disappointment with the excellent MGS4. I think I read somewhere that he wanted this type of realism in the game, which would've made for some unique action scenes: (however we do see hints of environment destruction in the Rage boss fight at the church). I guess they didn't have the time to put it in before the game shipped.

Feel like I'm raising the dead here...


A new story trailer from a couple of days ago.

HD (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/43404.html)
SD (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/43405.html)

Release date is 1/13/2009 so it could find a nice spot before the Killzone 2 hype goes into full swing.

Ever since its first release back in 01 on the PS2, the Red Faction series has been known as a trailblazer for destructive environments. I'm not surprised that they're keeping it up almost eight years later.

That was pretty much all that was good about the Red Faction games.

But I dunno. Volition knows good openworld gameplay. Saints Row, etc. I have high hopes for this one.

I still remember the first half hour of the original Red Faction; it was great, really reminded me of Half Life's storytelling techniques. I wished it was consistent throughout the rest of the game. It wasn't a bad game at all, but I was disappointed with the destructible environment features. Never played the second one, but I welcome a comeback if they can pull it off.

Volition made the Freespace games, so I will give anything they make a shot, period.

Looking good, got my eye on this one.

The totally destructible open environments, all with real physics, an MECHS! Going to make for some fun gameplay and MP. I just want to know how this all works in MP... since sending all that physics data wouldn't work.

great game!

Did anyone else have a sh-t ton of fun with this demo??

I must have played it through 5 times and tried to take a different angle each time. I noticed that some degree of stealth can be involved also as a caused an explosion on one side of a structure (with some sweet remote explosives) and all enemies were tuned toward that action and I was able to sneak around behind and get a jump on them. I will most likely pick this up on release.

The physics in the last part of the demo was top-notch, movie style also.

Did anyone else have a sh-t ton of fun with this demo??

I must have played it through 5 times and tried to take a different angle each time. I noticed that some degree of stealth can be involved also as a caused an explosion on one side of a structure (with some sweet remote explosives) and all enemies were tuned toward that action and I was able to sneak around behind and get a jump on them. I will most likely pick this up on release.

The physics in the last part of the demo was top-notch, movie style also.

Hmm strange. I actually found the AI poor. It seemed that enemies that "should" not know where I was came streaming at me. Also, I had a problem with the constant enemy spawning. I would literally have mobs spawn right in front of me. I found run and gun more effective for this reason.

The basic AI and shooting mechanics aren't too hot, but I love the physics and damage stuff. Great fun with that mech blasting through buildings and bridges!

You're right, the spawning and AI I guess wasn't that great. I haven't really been impressed with a demo in a while, and I really enjoyed this one. I also think that I really prefer third-person, I am a die-hard Warhawk player also. This title seems to have a lot of single-player play time and some multiplayer also.

I really liked the demo initially, but after a couple more times through, I didn't feel that same sense of "holy ****! I just totally demolished that building!"

Could be a good rental. If I really dig it, I'll buy it further down the road at a reduced price.

Played it, and Loved it.

Feels like the next step in GTA to tell you the truth. While the fighting and AI isn't up to this gen yet, it's obvious they put the most horsepower into making the very large sandbox world that looks nice and everything in it effected by real physics and material composition. This is what SW:TFU should have been in that regard.

It's pretty cool to take out the supports of a building, then watch as the stress of the weight up top eventually causes the beams to buckle and brings it down. If they can come up with some pretty cool missions, this one is a sure purchase for me.

Little sad the demo only gives you 10 minutes and such a small area to work in.

bad thing noticed is that the enemys know you and come after you, even when being a good Martian Decitizen. My hope is there's some stealth aspects, where you can get by and blend in when not on their radar for blowing stuff up, ala AC or GTA when you're not wanted.

Any word if MP will have a map editor? Also wondering how the net code will keep track of all of the pysical reactions without choking the game..

Played it, and Loved it.

Feels like the next step in GTA to tell you the truth. While the fighting and AI isn't up to this gen yet, it's obvious they put the most horsepower into making the very large sandbox world that looks nice and everything in it effected by real physics and material composition. This is what SW:TFU should have been in that regard.

It's pretty cool to take out the supports of a building, then watch as the stress of the weight up top eventually causes the beams to buckle and brings it down. If they can come up with some pretty cool missions, this one is a sure purchase for me.

Little sad the demo only gives you 10 minutes and such a small area to work in.

bad thing noticed is that the enemys know you and come after you, even when being a good Martian Decitizen. My hope is there's some stealth aspects, where you can get by and blend in when not on their radar for blowing stuff up, ala AC or GTA when you're not wanted.

Any word if MP will have a map editor? Also wondering how the net code will keep track of all of the pysical reactions without choking the game..


Agreed on every single one of your points including the "bad thing".

I had a freaking blast with this. Ive never had more fun setting up detonations in different locations and watching the chaos unfold. Also the up close and personal use of the Hammer weapon is freaking BRUTAL.

The Mech and the chase scene after were absolutely ridiculous and chaotic. I sincerely loved it.

I could however see it getting a bit old since the map looks gigantic, but its a definite buy for me in June.

Also noted, I dowloaded the 360 and the PS3 version and to MY eyes, the PS3 version actually wins out with smoother graphics and a more solid framerate. I like the 360 controller better for this type of game so I may have a toss up.

Anyway... good stuff... Cant wait

This is coming out Tuesday. I think I'm gonna get it.

And it has....


JETPAX!!!!

Pretty good reviews so far, 8.0 @ IGN and a 90 Metacritic score.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/987/987544p1.html

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/redfactionguerrilla

Looking forward to it, b might deal with it thru Goozex. It's summer and I already have a backlog of good titles I haven't got to.

I played the demo and it was OK. I think I might rent it.

However, I LOVE the controls. The controller response is the best I ever played. It's very, very accurate and smooth. I don't understand how Guerrilla makes both this game and KZ2, yet KZ2 controls suck rotten eggs. I was just commenting on that in the KZ2 thread. I hope that new update comes soon.

I don't understand how Guerrilla makes both this game and KZ2:confused::eek::confused::eek:

You, sir, are the victim of a grave misunderstanding.

I'd like to pick this up to but I need to get inFamous and suspect Red Faction will drop in price pretty fast.

I'd like to pick this up to but I need to get inFamous and suspect Red Faction will drop in price pretty fast.I'm with you. I enjoyed the demo in a wow-that-was-totally-fun-but-do-I-really-want-to-pay-60-bucks sort of way. Destroying buildings in a mech suit is more realistically worth about $30.

Yeah. I'm just saying it probably won't sell that well honestly and will see a quick price drop.

:confused::eek::confused::eek:

You, sir, are the victim of a grave misunderstanding.

Huh? Wha? Didn't they make both games?

Huh? Wha? Didn't they make both games?Not even close.

"Guerrilla Games" (the development studio behind Killzone) has nothing to do with "Red Faction: Guerrilla" (which is developed by Volition, who made the FreeSpace and Saints Row games).

Not even close.

"Guerrilla Games" (the development studio behind Killzone) has nothing to do with "Red Faction: Guerrilla" (which is developed by Volition, who made the FreeSpace and Saints Row games).

Ahhhhh, I see. The second 'Guerrilla' in the thread title threw me.

Just a heads up to anyone interested. This is out today.

Just picked up my copy at Game Crazy.

My full review to come tommorow. I know all of you will collectively hold your breath till then. ;)

Anyone else get this? I only played the first part which was sort of a training. InFamous has been taking up most of my gaming time.

This game seems pretty good though. I love the destruction.

Is the Martian landscape accutately represented?

I would think accurate representation is not necessary as to the best of my knowledge there is a lot of terraforming and modification of the terrain and even atmosphere.

I still want to know how this game is, I had an absolute blast with the demo and I can't stand the theme of GTA but I love the style of play and this seemed to mimic it to some degree.

NOTE- This review is for the 360 version but after playing it on the PS3, they are the same, albeit the PS3 version (to my eyes) looks slightly better and a fraction of a bit smoother.

The worst part about this game is that its being overlooked because of inFamous(another great game) and Prototype....

Graphics - A-- Very nice. Solid and sharp. Colors (mainly shades of red) pop out. Not the best ever but impressive considering the scale and how many fragments are usually littered about on the screen. Framerate seems locked in between 20fps (when absolute destructive chaos is onscreen) and 30 or higher the majority of the time. PS3 version edges out 360 according to my goggles :p

The destructive environment - A+ I know Red Faction is known for destructability but HOLY HELL! I sat with my jaw dropped more than a few times at the "beauty" of open world destruction. Honestly, the sight and sound of a huge building or a tall tower coming down is... perfect. Dont know what else to say. An achievement in game environment physics.

Gameplay- B- Standard open world type missions albeit with certain interesting twists. No mold breaking here, but its fun and keeps me engaged so thats what counts.

Sound - B Good stuff. Explosions come in thick and snappy (makes sense once you hear it) 5.1. LFE is nice but could be a bit more dynamic. Feels a bit flat, but resonates on large explosions. I actually find myself really digging the spacey sci-fi soundtrack thats in the background while hot footing around the maps.

Control - B Solid. Deadzone can be a bit dodgy, although I havent fiddled with the sensitivities options. As someone else stated, aiming can feel a bit twitchy at important times, but overall the feel of the character and the controller setup feels well managed.

Story - B+ Interesting. I expected not to be too sucked in and while the storyline is not riveting, it is keeping me interested and the constant updated news feed kiosks and general feel of "little people stand up and rip the sh!t out of fascist corporation" is always a winner in my book.

Multiplayer - B+ I didnt think the MP would be this fun, but I am enjoying myself. There appears to be decent matchmaking and a COD4 style points to perks system in place. Lag was not noticeable although its early in the game to tell if that'll be the norm. I am almost tempted to keep playing MP, but I want to at least liberate a few more towns before I put more time into it.

Overall - A- Solid, good graphics, super fun, completely destructible environments with an MP component that may actually catch on. A recommended BUY if you're not overly sick of open world gameplay progression.

Nice review. I'll try to get some more time in tonight with this game.

Just finished this tonight (BIG game) and played a little multiplayer. It's very fun, and needs to at least be rented to see the physics engine at work; the demo doesn't give the best idea of it, there are big-ass towers that you can take down and stuff, and some very unique and fun weapons as well. If you're into open-world games, you'll probably love it.

I'm hearing a lot of good things about this game's multiplayer... I might pick it up/rent it later on

This is definitely one of those games I will pick up a few years down the road for $5-10 and ask myself "how did I miss this?" :D

I should have it some time in the next week. First in queue and just waiting from someone to get done with it.

:)

I should have it some time in the next week. First in queue and just waiting from someone to get done with it.

:)

how did you get to be the first in the queue

how did you get to be the first in the queue

I added it to my request list and waited.

:p

This is definitely one of those games I will pick up a few years down the road for $5-10 and ask myself "how did I miss this?" :D

It is. And that is sad to me. This game should be appreciated right now, especially with Infamous and Prototype kicking around the open-world stuff. This game is just as unique as they are.

Last night I almost threw my controller across the room because of this game. In fact I would have done it if my wife hadn’t been there.

This might be a bit of a spoiler for the sensitive type.



So I was making my way through the final stages of the game last night and hit the final level where you drive a massive tank up the side of a mountain. It was chock full of massive explosions, overwhelming odds, white-knuckled excitement and...extreme frustration! Why the frustration you ask?

Well for the final level Volition decided to create a protracted and tricky road up the side of a mountain that eventually leads to the final boss. It’s filled with the meanest the EDF forces have to offer—but there isn’t a single checkpoint! That’s right--if you die you must start completely over at the very beginning of the level. I'm not exaggerating at all when I say it took me 3.5 hours to beat this one level. In fact my very LAST effort of the evening is when I finally beat it.

Certainly Volition isn’t the first developer to do this in the last level of their game, but playing it did stir up old feelings on the issue. I find it absolutely maddening when a developer does this in an effort to increase “game play time” or difficulty.

If you want to provide a more challenging experience then throw more bad guys at me, increase their toughness, pose ammo limitations, use a different vehicle, or even take away the protagonists legs (kidding)--but don’t take away checkpoints in a long and difficult level like this. I’m not the gamer I use to be when I was 13 having 80 hours a week to dedicate to gaming. I might be completely alone here—and I’m betting I’m not—but there is nothing amusing about playing the same frustrating level over and over and over and over and over and over again because of poor design choices.

Get this--roughly 2.5 hours into replaying the level I had finally made it all the way to the top of the mountain receiving the "Mission Accomplished!” Pausing the game I then cheered mightily--SUCCESS! I called my wife into the room to prove to her games will, in fact, one day bring the world closer and possibly cure cancer! I hugged my cat assuring her everything was one again right with the world and that she would one day end up in a painting above the fire mantel! Unpausing the game I found myself standing in front of the final boss’s tank and was instantly killed by two attacking jets from behind. I wasn’t too worried though--I had reached my checkpoint right? Mission accomplished? No?

No.

The game then started me waaaay back at the beginning of the level again. Man I've not reached a level of frustration since one of the final races in Burnout Paradise where my cars exploded because I was 1 inch way from another car.

This game does a decent job of saving the game often enough while placing you in the right spots if you die during a mission, but drastically changing that very system just for the last level is infuriating and honestly feels a bit cheap! It completely goes against what the game taught the player what he/she should expect since the beginning. Heck I’m surprised Volition didn’t take away all our guns too.

Look, overall I do really love this game for everything it has to offer in both the single and multiplayer experiences—but that design choices with the last level left a bad taste in my mouth unfortunately.

So far Red Faction reminds me a lot of the more entertaining GTA iterations (Vice City, San Andreas) in that there is actually lots of fun stuff to do besides the core missions - this is a true sandbox game IMHO.

I had to redo the last level a bunch; it is nuts, but you really just have to go very slow and even retreat (!) sometimes if it's too hairy. The guys that spawn behind you have regular guns so they don't do much damage, so you can safely ignore them for a little bit if you are in the middle of wrecking a bunch of enemies ahead of you. There is also a place where the path splits, one of the paths is much easier. It took me maybe two hours, but I actually made it all the way to the boss in my huge tank, which he's not really a match for.

It is stupid there is no checkpoint before the boss battle itself, though.

I'd like to pick this up to but I need to get inFamous and suspect Red Faction will drop in price pretty fast.

Like I was saying... http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227480

Now I just need to wait for a PS3 cut. I feel bad for anyone that paid $60 for this game (not because it's not a good game but because it was obvious this would happen).

I have been playing this one for a few days now and it is fun as hell. I hope it keeps getting cooler and cooler.

Last night I almost threw my controller across the room because of this game. In fact I would have done it if my wife hadn’t been there.

Wow, wasn't expecting anyone to share some of my frustrations with this game....which I expect will make many site's top 10 games of the year. Martez and I reviewed this game on our show two weeks ago, and I was pretty hard on it. (Martez, on the other hand, sided with the vast majority, and really liked it.) I understand your pain, Warcrow, and I'm actually quite relieved by it. :p I don't really share it with the end battle like you do, but only because of all the daunting parts of the game, I actually kinda stumbled on an easy way to do it.

Get out of the tank, first of all. I hi-jacked one of the enemy carrier vehicles, and full-throttled it up all the way to the top. I tried using the tank about 5 times, and kept getting killed in it--regardless of much time I took, and how careful I was. Finally just gave up and started running up. Eventually hi-jacked a vehicle, and went for it. I had nothing to lose at this point, cuz I was just gonna give up, anyway if I died. Somehow, some way, maybe it was a miracle, maybe it was a glitch--as the game wasn't expecting anyone to do what I did--I sped all the way to the top. It seemed to take forever. That's a mother-fricken long drive up there! The tank road-blocks seem infinite. However, once you start driving you can slip right past every one. Made it up in about 2 minutes, didn't fire a single shot once in the vehicle, easily killed the last boss with one of my special guns, and then, thank Christ, the game was over!

Good luck!

Wow, wasn't expecting anyone to share some of my frustrations with this game....which I expect will make many site's top 10 games of the year. Martez and I reviewed this game on our show two weeks ago, and I was pretty hard on it. (Martez, on the other hand, sided with the vast majority, and really liked it.) I understand your pain, Warcrow, and I'm actually quite relieved by it.Yeah, it's funny. Listening to your guys' last podcast (you all probably have more listeners than you think), it sounded like you were getting ready to gush (in a positive way) about the game. It was weird. Saying you had a very "emotional" response and were "nervous" about your review got me thinking you were about to say that it was your favorite game ever, then seemingly out of the blue you start talking about how much you hated it! :D

Anyway, you convinced me to hold off on picking this one up until it's floating around the used bins in a couple years.

Wow, wasn't expecting anyone to share some of my frustrations with this game....which I expect will make many site's top 10 games of the year. Martez and I reviewed this game on our show two weeks ago, and I was pretty hard on it. (Martez, on the other hand, sided with the vast majority, and really liked it.) I understand your pain, Warcrow, and I'm actually quite relieved by it. :p I don't really share it with the end battle like you do, but only because of all the daunting parts of the game, I actually kinda stumbled on an easy way to do it.


One thing I don't like is when I do a mission and my alert level goes to red, you can't stand your ground and wait till you kill off all the bad guys cause they just keep coming. Unlike Infamous, you basically have to high tail it out of there if you want to survive.

One thing I don't like is when I do a mission and my alert level goes to red, you can't stand your ground and wait till you kill off all the bad guys cause they just keep coming. Unlike Infamous, you basically have to high tail it out of there if you want to survive.

This is what I hated about the demo, actually. Infinite enemies and sometimes they will even spawn right next to you.

Wow, wasn't expecting anyone to share some of my frustrations with this game....which I expect will make many site's top 10 games of the year. Martez and I reviewed this game on our show two weeks ago, and I was pretty hard on it

Whaaaatever, I said it frustrated me as well. I just enjoyed the sandbox aspect of it and was impressed with the engine they built. I actually agreed with you on most points, but felt the good outweighed the bad.

I also really liked the online play.

Anyway, you convinced me to hold off on picking this one up until it's floating around the used bins in a couple years.

Haha, although I'm flattered you'd actually listen to me on this one, I'm not so sure you should! Like I said, 99.99% of the reviews of this one have been gushing...in a good way. I'm merely the .01 in the discussion. Yeah, I struggled to find things to really like about this game, but like Gordon said on the show, all the things I hated are exactly what everyone else says they really loved about it.

For me, the world was just dreadfully boring. Boring looking, boring to interact with. Yes, I know it's Mars. But it's also science fiction. Why not just create a whole new world? Why make something so painfully dull? And DAMN do you have to do a lot of driving in this uninspired place! Eventually you can buy an upgrade that allows you to map-jump to a safe-house (yay) but everywhere else, you're driving, and driving, and driving. Not making matters any better for itself, all the characters and "storyline" we're equally lifeless. I never felt any reason to care about the things I was doing, nor did I care to kill or stop the enemies in the game. The game never bothers to make you actually want to be a rebel. Throw yourself onto a HUGE map, sprinkle on an infinite number of indiscriminate enemies, and call it a game. Granted, they totally nailed the mechanics for bringing buildings down, but it didn't take me long to lose my motivation to keep knocking the same things down over and over again. When everything else in a game fails to interest me in any way, the main gimmick of a game, however well done, quickly becomes a chore for me.

I think if I were to maybe treat this game more as a demo of knocking buildings down, and go into the same map tasks over and over again, merely experimenting with the number of different ways of accomplishing the same thing, I might have had fun with it. Unfortunately, the game is about 15 hours too long for me to have played it that way. Again, though, I'm in the definite minority with these opinions!

you're driving, and driving, and driving. Not making matters any better for itself, all the characters and "storyline" we're equally lifeless.Those were my exact feelings on Far Cry 2, and you pretty much confirmed my suspicions about Red Faction. Loved the first ten hours or so of FC2, then I got sick of the environment, sick of the driving, sick of the same mission types, sick of the lifeless characters, tired of the uninspired story. Up until Far Cry 2, anything remotely smacking of "open world" had me hooked; but after that, I'm much more skeptical.

It really sounds like a title that I'll pick up two years down the road really cheap and enjoy it for a little while before putting it back down. But spending $50-60 on it would just piss me off. :D

Those were my exact feelings on Far Cry 2, and you pretty much confirmed my suspicions about Red Faction. Loved the first ten hours or so of FC2, then I got sick of the environment, sick of the driving, sick of the same mission types, sick of the lifeless characters, tired of the uninspired story. Up until Far Cry 2, anything remotely smacking of "open world" had me hooked; but after that, I'm much more skeptical.

It really sounds like a title that I'll pick up two years down the road really cheap and enjoy it for a little while before putting it back down. But spending $50-60 on it would just piss me off. :D

I felt that way about Far Cry 2. I didn't even finish it because I just got bored.

I would think accurate representation is not necessary as to the best of my knowledge there is a lot of terraforming and modification of the terrain and even atmosphere.

Well, I would like to climb the tallest volcano in our Solar System!

I also felt the driving in Far Cry 2 was too much. in red faction though, I had fun taking the buggy and going off road and mountain climbing. I thought the driving mechanics were pretty good, but of course the building destruction was the headliner in this game. all in all I found the game fun for quite a while, haven't finished yet (playing infamous now).

it's funny but even though I liked this game a fair bit, I agree with a few of Kess's observations. graphics are good, but colour scheme is boring, almost monochromatic according to the area your in. even though the game was fun (even the missions although running around is funner imo), the story line doesn't really draw you in. it doesn't leave you wanting to do the next mission to progress the storyline.

anyways I don't buy, I have the no return rental thing. I would definetely recommend renting this game.

Why do people keep bringing up the storyline? Doing missions doesn't leave you wanting to progress the storyline because there IS no storyline. There's a beginning that gives the character a reason to be rebelling and liberating Mars, and then there is the ending where Mars is liberated, and how you get from that point A to point B is the game.

There is no character development because no one cares about Samantha or whatever her name is or the main character guy. You don't need to, this is just a sandbox game where you blow **** up. There is no way any storyline could've been added to this game that would make you go "WOW I REALLY WANT TO DESTROY THIS BUILDING WITH ALL MY HEART, NOW!" You want to destroy the buildings because it's fun to destroy the buildings and play with the physics engine. If you don't like that aspect, or if it got old to you, then that's all fine and good; different people like different things. But don't try to blame the lack of a compelling storyline on it, because it would not have helped that much and it seems a little ridiculous to even expect it from a game like this in the first place.

Grand Theft Auto pretends to have a storyline, but have you ever really cared about the characters and storyline in those games? I haven't. I love the GTA series and think it is a lot of fun to play, but the story in them are completely forgettable, and the characters are barely entertaining stereotypes 99% of the time.

As far as I'm concerned, the lack of a storyline in Red Faction is trimming an unnecessary element and lets me focus on just doing whatever I want in the world, which is the entire point of a sandbox game. I don't need a high quality, heart-moving script in every single game. Sometimes just being fun is enough.

Why do people keep bringing up the storyline? Doing missions doesn't leave you wanting to progress the storyline because there IS no storyline. There's a beginning that gives the character a reason to be rebelling and liberating Mars, and then there is the ending where Mars is liberated, and how you get from that point A to point B is the game.

There is no character development because no one cares about Samantha or whatever her name is or the main character guy. You don't need to, this is just a sandbox game where you blow **** up. There is no way any storyline could've been added to this game that would make you go "WOW I REALLY WANT TO DESTROY THIS BUILDING WITH ALL MY HEART, NOW!" You want to destroy the buildings because it's fun to destroy the buildings and play with the physics engine. If you don't like that aspect, or if it got old to you, then that's all fine and good; different people like different things. But don't try to blame the lack of a compelling storyline on it, because it would not have helped that much and it seems a little ridiculous to even expect it from a game like this in the first place.

Grand Theft Auto pretends to have a storyline, but have you ever really cared about the characters and storyline in those games? I haven't. I love the GTA series and think it is a lot of fun to play, but the story in them are completely forgettable, and the characters are barely entertaining stereotypes 99% of the time.

As far as I'm concerned, the lack of a storyline in Red Faction is trimming an unnecessary element and lets me focus on just doing whatever I want in the world, which is the entire point of a sandbox game. I don't need a high quality, heart-moving script in every single game. Sometimes just being fun is enough.I'm the exact opposite. Some good story elements can improve almost any game for me. I'd rather have some kind of exposition about why I'm doing a mission than just a map icon showing where to go and blow up building number 349. Driving around a sandbox game crashing into stuff and blowing stuff up for lulz would hold my interest for about an hour.

And yes, I do very much care about the story and characters in the GTA games. With the possible exception of GTA3 and it's silent protaganist they've all had a strong storyline.

And yes, I do very much care about the story and characters in the GTA games. With the possible exception of GTA3 and it's silent protaganist they've all had a strong storyline.

I didn't find San Andreas' storyline that strong. It was basically "cops are jerks and my friend sold out for drug money." Then again, like you said, we're different; I got a good portion of my SA enjoyment simply flying the jumbo jet around.

I didn't find San Andreas' storyline that strong. It was basically "cops are jerks and my friend sold out for drug money." Then again, like you said, we're different; I got a good portion of my SA enjoyment simply flying the jumbo jet around.They killed his moms man! :)

"Storyline" was never the GTA series' strongpoint. That's a big reason why GTAIV was so disappointing; too much focus on story.

"Storyline" was never the GTA series' strongpoint. That's a big reason why GTAIV was so disappointing; too much focus on story.

Nah, it was the lack of variety in missions. I get bored after the 4th or 5th follow a person, assassinate a person, take on a mob safe house, ect.

The pinnacle was the bank robbery, which was just about the best mission in a GTA I've ever played. Then it went back to boring, simple, bland missions right through the end.

I wanted to blow up a building with RC copters again, or something new and exciting like that.

Nope. It's the story.

The missions were fine (and, yes, the bank robbery mission was classic). But the GTA games have never been about the missions. In past GTAs, I plowed through the missions in order to get to the good stuff: driving around and doing ****. Problem is, once you finish the story missions in GTAIV, there's nothing to do. That's why so many folks prefer Saints Row. Lots more fun stuff to do.

Well, it's a matter of opinion, so you're right.

But for me, I always liked it for the unique and cool missions more then running around and finding jumps, and setting up chain reaction explosions (but that was fun too). It's why I put up with the crap missions.

GTAIV has some pretty repetitive and generic missions in comparison to Vice and Andreas.

The game is awesome, anyone who says otherwise is being too picky. I picked it up on the B2G1 free Target deal for $40 effectively and its worth every penny. The fun, the soundtrack, the level design, the geomod, the MP.. all outstanding. Highly recommended.

Well, it's a matter of opinion, so you're right.For shame. You should know by now that there are no opinions allowed in this forum. Only facts.

The game is awesome, anyone who says otherwise is being too picky. I picked it up on the B2G1 free Target deal for $40 effectively and its worth every penny. The fun, the soundtrack, the level design, the geomod, the MP.. all outstanding. Highly recommended.

Yea I still have yet to even put an hour into this game. I picked it up at Target also.

BAH!!! Too many games!!!

And the stupid $15 game is the one that I've been playing (BF) with the stupid $10 game as a backup (Eat Lead).

so in the middle of oasis theres a large area that is blocked off by some kind of invisible wall. there are markers in the low areas indcating it is a field rather then a wall. any way do you ever enter that area during the course of the game...