Well I figured that since there seemed to be an "Official..." thread for everything else, that this game was just as deserving. That and also here is the latest trailer for the game:

Second Coming:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/35606.html

Activities Trailer:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/34873.html

ULTOR:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/33600.html

For some reason the embedding is not working, however on Game Trailers site, you can watch the videos in either SD or HD.

Release Date: October 14, 2008

So its basically....Saints Row Again. Join the Saints and re-take the streets?

Honestly I just finally finished Saints Row and enjoyed it..well not the ending..but the rest of the game, to be truthful, this sequil looks like bad....bad as in "crap". The framerate was bad, the graphics looked...really quite bad....and the story looks...bad.

Good diologue...but just...bad.

SR had that "first in the door" thing going for it, 3D world on a next-gen system. But this game doesn't look like its offering much up, and to be honest playing as the "angry gang-banger who came out of a coma to save the day" seems more than a little bit retarded.

I thought the story, dialogue, and characters in SR1 were the worst I have ever seen in videogames... not in a "jill sandwich" way, but just crude, offensive, stereotypical, no humor, trying to be "ghetto", awful awful awful. Really, it was like... what would happen if you got a bunch of Midwesterners trying to write dialogue trying to be "street"? This. Because that is what it was. Volition is based in suburban Illinois.

And yea, it doesn't look like they hired a professional to help them with SR2, so MOTS...

I will be skipping this, but I do think it will find an audience from people who wanted more "wacky" than GTA4 provided.

I thought the story, dialogue, and characters in SR1 were the worst I have ever seen in videogames... not in a "jill sandwich" way, but just crude, offensive, stereotypical, no humor, trying to be "ghetto", awful awful awful. Really, it was like... what would happen if you got a bunch of Midwesterners trying to write dialogue trying to be "street"? This. Because that is what it was. Volition is based in suburban Illinois.


Wouldn't know...I'm a white guy in suburbia...my last interface with "street culture" was buying Straight Outta Compton. Nuff said.

While the characters and story were silly, there was a certain professionalism that came with SR1...mainly the voice acting. Mark Wahlberg, David Keith, and the others...sure it was sooooo cliched'..but at the same time....the asian guy wasn't played by a white guy "speaking engrish", and the black guy wasn't just some ebonics-spouting thug, he was an intelligent, articulate guy. That, for some odd reason, gave the game a degree of polish that many other games are lacking.

.......and yeah they are written by white guys from Illinois because real gang-bangers would just hold up the development guys and steal their wallets and computers :)


I will be skipping this, but I do think it will find an audience from people who wanted more "wacky" than GTA4 provided.

Like Saints Row, when its $19.99..I'll jump in, unless it gets REALLY badly reviewed.

well, I expected such hatred. Saints Row is much more than just a videogame. It's a rediculous ride in the ghetto and just plain fun. The controls are on point, the driving is fun and easy, and the missions are hilarious and challenging. Saints Row has rediculous characters? Well, no kidding. That's what the game is: over the top. If you were expecting deep characters you bought the wrong game. But it has some really funny moments and who can forget that guy in the club who says "Get out!", your character is standing there like wtf? The guy says "Not you" to you, then a scantily clad girl crawls out from under the table wiping her mouth! I was roaring and that's what this game is: fun

To be fair, the driving model in the game sucks and the framerate hovers somewhere around 24fps.

But hey I still had great fun with it once I got into it!

I'll probably pick this game up. I enjoyed the first (shocking to hear that it's crude and there's no mention of the GTA series and it's history of crudeness) and am guessing I'll enjoy this one.

I'll wait for a couple of reviews, demo, and then price drop and add it to my collection.

-JR

I'll probably pick this game up. I enjoyed the first (shocking to hear that it's crude and there's no mention of the GTA series and it's history of crudeness) and am guessing I'll enjoy this one.

I am not going to offend some classic movie by comparing it to Grand Theft Auto, but Saints Row in terms of tone is like the Malibu's Most Wanted of videogames. It was terrible, I cringed virtually every time the characters were moving their mouths.

I had fun in spite of the characters and story, not because of it.

I'll buy this game just because of the car collecting and maintenance (I only roll in Saints purple ya dig?), sprinkled with some insurance claim injury fun, mayhem fun, robberies, etc. along with the better weapons and funner aspect of spraying down gangbangers in the wrong color at the wrong time 'in my hood'. Yep, I play video games for fun sh!t like this. If I want serious, I turn the game off, and play real life.

Can't wait for some TRUE free roam.

Anyone getting excited yet? New videos from Comic Con...


http://www.gametrailers.com/player/37543.html

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/37539.html

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/37545.html

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/37563.html

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/244295.html

in related news, tera patrick named as a special producer of the game:)

Lots of hate in this thread.

I am looking forward to SR2 - as I expected more from GTA4 - and while not disappointed in GTA this time around, I didn't put as much time into 4 as I have previous titles...oh well.

Still struggling through SR1 - 10x harder than any GTA game. :)

New video, October is right around the corner!

Meet one of the new gangs causing disorder and destruction in Stillwater.

The Brotherhood:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/38114.html

I am really starting to get excited now.

first day pickup for me. My gang is going to be dressed up as hot dogs

first day pickup for me. My gang is going to be dressed up as hot dogs

Glad I am not the only one that is looking forward to this, everyone must be busy playing Madden or something!

I liked the first one good enough. Until it killed by 360 that is. I'll certainly rent the 2nd.

I'll be getting this the first day! I really enjoyed the first one. I think controls are extremely important and can make or break a game and the first one got it right.

shouldn't this be "UN"official 'til the game is out...

I just hope the online is working this time. the 1st was fun except for the constant lag.

will def be doing the co-op insurance or whatever it is game with people.

Another new trailer:

Exclusive Sons of Samedi Trailer

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/38304.html

Looks better than GTA4, what a disappointment that was.

Looks better than GTA4, what a disappointment that was.
And actually... The original Saints Row was better than GTA4, so it's hard to see how the sequel could fail in this regard!

I am not going to offend some classic movie by comparing it to Grand Theft Auto, but Saints Row in terms of tone is like the Malibu's Most Wanted of videogames. It was terrible, I cringed virtually every time the characters were moving their mouths.

I had fun in spite of the characters and story, not because of it.

You seriously cringed everytime? LOL, glad you found a way to pull through it and play it despite the hardship of hearing such vulgar.

Did you even read a review of the game? How could one not expect such language from this game when it was released?

Another Trailer: New Gang: Ronin

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/257055.html

this game is a day one buy

New Co-Op Gameplay Trailer:

http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/882586/saints-row-2/videos/saintsrow2_coop_trlr_091008.html

Link to the "Final Campaign Impressions:"

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/909/909166p1.html

It will be a first day pickup for myself and some of my XBL friends. Despite the server issues, the multiplayer was surprisingly fun; definitely more so than GTA4. Character customization was fun to fool around with and it was enjoyable to see other players creations in game. In what other game can you encounter a team of four comprised of a fat man with blue hair wearing only underwear, a stick-thin bald albino wearing running shorts, a pimp, and a straight up thug. I think a lot of people missed out on a fun game, because it came out at a weird time during the period between the death of BF2 and the R6V launch. Most people I know were finishing off older games or taking a break for a few weeks before Vegas.

I loved the first game and can't wait for the second.

Saints Row 2 Movie Introduces Voice-over Cast

A new Saints Row 2 has been released by THQ, featuring the likes of Neil Patrick Harris, Jaime Pressly, Michael Dorn and Michael Rappaport among others as they talk about their voice-over work on the game.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54782

NPH FTW!

Thanks for that link! I can't believe that NPH is in the game! I loved the first Saint's Row and I think this iteration is going to be even more over the top. My flight to Stillwater leaves in less than a month! October 14th...

Saints Row 2 Soundtrack Revealed

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=56412

1 week away!

Edit: found a more complete track list

Will there still be racial stereotypes in part 2? If not, then I will buy it.

Will there still be racial stereotypes in part 2? If not, then I will buy it.

No, the game will be racially accurate.

People from all races do stupid and crazy things.

And in this game, people from all races will do stupid and crazy things.

Just like saints row 1.

No, the game will be racially accurate.

People from all races do stupid and crazy things.

And in this game, people from all races will do stupid and crazy things.

Just like saints row 1.

I laughed out loud when I read that. Yes there will be stereotypical gangsters in the game. However the overall humor involved make the stereotypes even better.

No, the game will be racially accurate.

People from all races do stupid and crazy things.

And in this game, people from all races will do stupid and crazy things.

Just like saints row 1.
Its pretty sad if they have to use it as humor.

And it's also pretty sad when people take things way too seriously. It's a game. Lighten up.

People blow things way out of proportion when it comes to this kind of stuff. Hell, I'm black and I find it hilarious.

-Brad

Got my copy of Sr2 and Septic tank avenger cracks me up. So far looks like a xbox1 game.

Not as detailed and refine as GTA but is true to SR1.

Worthplaying.com review is out
9.2/10

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=56560

Can't wait to get caught ridin' dirty.... 2 more days....

EDIT:
IGN review 8.2
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/918/918374p1.html

The reviews must see something. The gameplay is fun reminds me of '25 To Life' game from xbox1.

I got my hands on a copy of Saints Row 2 on Friday and spent the better part of the weekend playing the game. I figured I would share my experience with the game, so far, you guys. Just to note it: I played the PS3 version of the game. There is a 3.8 GB installation that takes about 7 mins. Load times are almost completely absent once you get into the game, although there is a larger load time every time load the game up from the console (think GTAIV but with 1/2 the wait).

So let me just get this out right now--I got bored with the first SR after 4-5 hours of game time. I have now tried on three separate occasions to return to the game, but each time I just cannot get past the 3rd or 4th hour. I know there are a lot of people out there who really love the 1st game, and that's cool, but for me (this is just my opinion!) it's a mediocre experience at best. I did think the game had lots of potential. I appreciated the wackiness! I enjoy how ridiculous it wants to be and how unapologetic is was about that. SR1 was the 6 year old brother running outside to play football with it's older brother GTA and his friends--but in the end it ended up facedown in the mud.

Times have now changed.

GTA has graduated high school and moved on to be a thespian in college taking himself a little more seriously (but still a bit of a prankster, right?). Saints Row has grown a bit too--to be the class clown in his senior class. SR now knows what he's doing, how he's doing it, why it's doing it, and even knows you're going to like him. But he does stumble a bit along the way. Lets get started.


GRAPHICS
The overall visual presentation has been greatly improved. Everything from the real time lighting effects (immediately apparent from the first mission which is done at night), the texture detailing of...everything, the destroyable environments, the character models, all the way to the water have been improved in some fashion. Some of those things might be trivial to some, but I feel it's at least worth mentioning that this is a much better looking game than the first in every regard. Though the city now feels like it's actually lived in--where the first one felt like a sanitized stage--it still is not even in the same league as GTAIV's environment. GTAIV gave every street corner a unique feel and design throughout the entire city. Every alley felt different, trashed in a unique fashion--lived in. Here it's not the same feeling, but I don’t even know if it's valid. However, when comparisons are made between the two this is probably the one that will stand out for most.


STORY
SR2, much like the GTA games, has multiple story's that can progress at whatever pace you please. The cutscenes and dialogs have been improved greatly. They're now mostly enjoyable and are without the annoying dialog from the first one, dropping the F and N bombs left and right. Gone are the awkward cutscenes. Heck there were a few times when they even made me laugh--seriously. There is an apparent effort here to move things forward as far as story telling goes. The characters in the game are more interesting and seem to have a personality now. They're not just mannequins walking around with speakers for mouths reading their lines to the audience. But all that praise might not matter because the actual narrative is pretty lame. But if you're like me, you're not playing SR for the compelling story. :)

Mission progression now has checkpoints (thank god!) so if you die in a particular lengthy mission you do not have to start over. Also, you can save anywhere, at any time. Cars that are stored in your garage and permanently stored there regardless if they're destroyed on the road.


GAMEPLAY
This is where SR2 really shines and what keeps me coming back! The game breaks usual sandbox mould by not requiring you to progress through the story to unlock various sections of the city--everything in Stilwater is available right from the start. There are some minor improvements I noticed along like the inclusion of cruise control for easier car combat or when you're stuck in the water (from a car wreck perhaps) you now have the option to warp to land. There are more little things like this that I can't recall right now, but it's nice that there was some effort put into making things easier for the player.

Activities! There are a large set of these to participate in. Each section of the city (there are a lot of sections--guessing somewhere around 40?) has it's own set of these little diversions that will earn you money and respect. Each one has some sort of backstory accompanied by a cutscenes to lay things out for you. I'm not completely sure how else to tackle these activities other than to list the ones I've played (I didn’t get to all of them):

Septic Avenger:
Easily one of the most disgusting things I've ever done in a video game. You sit on top of a septic truck that runs on autopilot, at the helm of a crap-spewing gun causing as much property damage as possible. As you spray **** everywhere--buildings, cars and even people turn brown to mark your progress (there is a $ meter to let you know exactly where you stand). It's the nastiest fun I've had in a long time. Great fun!

Zombie Uprising:
One of my favorites diversions! This little gem is accessible form your crib TV or an arcade. When I originally saw the option to play this game, I figured it would be similar to the emulated 8-bit mini-games in GTA or Bully--nope. This little game utilizes all the same tech that's in the regular game and it's fantastic. You're just a dude (it's randomly generated) who's barracked himself in the middle of some random town square with a few other survivors and must kill off the onslaught of slow moving zombies. There are many weapons at your disposal and the hordes numbers increase with each wave.

Trail Blazing:
In this one you ride an ATV, wearing a flame retardant suit, while on fire. The objective here is to follow a designated path throughout a section of Stilwater, blowing things up along the way(any vehicle that touches you explodes). It's complete and total mayhem and a...blast to play (yes I went there).

Bodyguard:
Here you must protect a celebrity from their crazed fans. It sounds a little lame and to be honest I wasn’t that interested in playing it at first--but once I gave it a shot I found it to be fun. The activity utilizes the grab mechanic now implemented in the game. You must snatch a crazed fan from jumping on a celeb (there are several different locations, celebs and scenarios) and toss them into a SWAT vehicle, tractor, a wall or even to another bodyguard.

Fuzz:
Have you ever wanted to star in a the TV show Cops? This activity has you dress up as a cop (a backstory will lay out the reasons why) with a camera man following you. So it's a bit like the police side-missions in GTA, but with a scared camera-totting guy following you around. It's fun and he's not annoying and never got in my way. He did die once, but you can revive your peeps by pouring out a 40 (I'm not joking).

There are others activities I haven’t even tackled yet including racing (much like racing in GTAIV), Hitman (assassination missions), and fight club (underground arena fights). There is a lot to do and so far it's been a blast.


MULTIPLAYER
Unfortunately I did not get a chance to play any MP yet. But the idea od drop-in-drop-out coop for the entire campaign really really excites me!


WRAP UP
The game honestly surprised me. I think overall it's a really fun experience that comes with several flaws. For starters there is no cover mechanic at all-- but it's not a show stopper by any means. I honestly didn’t even think about this until someone asked me if it was in the game and now I find myself wishing it was there. Also, there is no lock-on feature in combat, and that can sometimes lead to some wild and crazy gunfights.

I would really love to see Volition move out of Rockstar's shadows and head in it's own direction. Rockstar left money on the table with the absence of the wackiness in GTAIV (I want my jetpack!) and it appears THQ saw the opportunity to really go for it and expand on all the crazy, fun things you can do. SR2 really is in the playground sitting in a sandbox--more so than ever before. The shenanigans and tomfoolery are so much fun that it now appears that the genre is splitting into two sub-genres.

If you're a fan on the original then go out and get this game now! If you enjoyed GTAIV but missed the wackiness, then you just might love this as well--if you can get past some of the flaws. If you're a huge fan of GTAIV, loved the narrative and didnt miss the shenanigans all that much then you might want to pass this one up.


If you've made it this far in my post--thanks. :)

Awesome review warcrow!

I picked up my copy as part of the TRU 2for1 deal.
It's just waiting in my truck, I can't wait to get out of work!!!

>Mission progression now has checkpoints (thank god!) so if you die in a particular lengthy >mission you do not have to start over. Also, you can save anywhere, at any time.

That is so awesome. All open world games should have these features.

Great review, Warcrow!

I cannot add anything more than saying you hit just about everything on the head.

Although I find myself wanting the much more realistic lived in look that GTA IV created, I can deal with Saints Rows look just fine.

Whether or not I can recommend it to anyone who has played GTA IV recently remains to be seen. There is enough stuff in there that is certainly different, but the "feel" is along the same lines.

My condensed verdict:

Buy for fans of original- I find myself wanting to keep playing which is always a great indicator of fun and involvement for me.

Rent\Wait for fans of GTA IV and Open world. There may not be enough new features over GTA IV to justify.

This game, like the first, is significantly better than anything in the Grand Theft Auto franchise. It's simply more fun to play and never tries to take itself too seriously, resulting in plenty of "laugh out loud" moments both in the ridiculous premises behind some of the missions and in the cutscenes themselves. Basically, by not trying to be excessively "realistic", it makes for a more enjoyable game.

This game, like the first, is significantly better than anything in the Grand Theft Auto franchise. It's simply more fun to play and never tries to take itself too seriously, resulting in plenty of "laugh out loud" moments both in the ridiculous premises behind some of the missions and in the cutscenes themselves. Basically, by not trying to be excessively "realistic", it makes for a more enjoyable game.

Couldn't agree more!

My wife was actually watching me play Saint's Row 2 last night and, while rolling her eyes at some parts, was quite amused at much of the dialog. I think it's really the game's cynicism that she likes, in that the characters act extremely matter-of-factly about over-the-top sex and violence. Very amusing for adults, but certainly not something that children should see.

Anyhow, she was alternately laughing and exclaiming "Oh my god, I can't believe they program this sort of thing into the game!" after I jacked a car by killing the owner, and his lifeless body was flopping around in the seat as I went around corners. I made some mention of "ragdoll physics", but the point is that the game is sufficiently crazy and random that it's entertaining to watch, in part because one never knows what will happen next.

anyone having problems with freezing?
It's locked up on me twice in the 2 days I've had the game (not a good ratio)

No freeze here, however the game does seem a little sluggish at times. I guess I have to compare this to the reference of GTAIV, which seems snappier. Probably have to get used to the controls, that's all.

When you get close to a wall or corner, SR2 fades the character, which can be disorienting, while GTAIV gives you these clunky angles which isn't much better.

Obviously if you are a graphics hoar, you probably will find fault with SR2 compared to GTA. I did expect better, however it is playable. The world doesn't feel as 'open', alive, and dynamic as GTA. The textures just look weird with way too much contrast and false detail (can't they do better than this?) The guys socks looked like they were carved out of stone. Do we really need to detail the stitching on a pair of socks to that level? It doesn't look real, so why bother? Things like this remind me of why Oblivion is just such a beautifully designed game, and you can tell that the developers are more artistic, and make more intelligent decisions/sacrifices. Also Bioshock, even though I did not favor that game.

Some of it seems like a forced attempt to be like GTA, such as in the first 3 minutes of the game I walk right onto 2 pimps beating down a cop, as if they were placed there as an attempt to say "Hey look at me, I can do what GTA does!" Actually it seemed like everybody was taking shots at the cops in this game. Overkill.

Once I got past that this is not GTA, and began to take the game for what it was, I began to enjoy it, and the nuances which made SR1 great start to become evident. The game is quirky fun, sort of cartoon like... it's not trying to be a simulation.

Haven't really gotten into any missions, but enough to know that I have to get used to the 'old style' driving again, and also the free reticle shooting. I find it pretty hard to aim, but that makes it kinda fun.

Can't say much more... I need to play the game!

(played a little MP too, but as usual, I don't have the tolerance for the kids who play online. Will probably stick to SP game for now)

anyone having problems with freezing?
It's locked up on me twice in the 2 days I've had the game (not a good ratio)

Not sure if it's random or if there is some commonality that is causing it but others are reporting it as well.

I've got about 20 hours in it and only a few missions left, my impressions...

Technically, the game is kind of a mess, as it's pretty ugly, has some serious slowdown, and some of the worst screen tearing I've seen, mainly in indoor environments.

Some of the button mapping choices are weird, and you only have three options, and none that that were perfect for me. Mapping the revive teammate button to the same button as carjacking will get you killed a few times, especially once you find yourself in a heap of several smoldering cars surrounded by enemies ripping you to shreds. Your homies can be kind of braindead as well, gladly standing next to a car when it explodes(you have ample warning)

Lots of neat little touches, like being able to create your own radio station out of the songs in the game. I miss the taxis from GTA4, as you'll do a lot more driving in this game. It's not so bad though, since the driving is extremely unrealistic and you can make your way around very fast. One thing you'll notice is when you are on foot, a lot of the time the surrounding area turns into a ghost town with nary a car to be found. I spent a lot of time hoofing it looking for a damn car. Despite a few frustrating parts, the game is still a lot of fun. The story and cut scenes were very entertaining, and the game as a whole is more fun than GTA4.

Has anyone seen the talk show "Anna" skit? It occurs when you let the start menu sit for a couple of minutes.

It pretty funny, you should check it out.

After spending more times with Saints Row 2, I continue to feel it's a great game and a lot of fun to play. However, I am struck by how similar it is to the first game, with only relatively minor changes. The graphics and game engine which were (reasonably) cool in the earlier title haven't been updated, and hence now feel dated. There are some new activities and some frustrations have been addressed, but I do wish they would have done a bit more to expand the core gameplay.

I like how now in the "Snatch" activity, even if you don't have enough room in your vehicle to hold your girls, the "hos" can grab any nearby empty vehicle and follow along behind you. So yeah, lots of little minor enhancements like that, but overall more of the same. Not that I'm complaining... I love the over-the-top cut scenes, and now that your character talks ("You had me at stripper pole..."), they're much better.

The more I play this, the funner it gets. It's hard to put down since there's so much to do, and it's not tedious.

It also starts to look better ~ I got used to it :D

...agree about the Y button discrepancy, and yeah now I have experienced some freezes. Luckily the game has a pretty good save system so not much is lost.

I don't know what it is, I've never even been into GTA-likes. The co-op pulled me in and now I'm posting here just to add what a blast SR2 is with 2 people. This just doesn't get mentioned enough, probably because it doesn't work well in a traditional open online scenario. You really need a buddy to get the most out of this. There's no end to the hilarity. Never would I have believed that the low-brow gangsta approach could be this fun. The game never takes itself seriously; the characters and dialogue are over the top, but endearing enough in a Bad Boys kind of way that makes their juvenile escapades a hoot.

To be a bit more specific about the co-op, SR2 incorporates the concept exceptioanlly well. Not only is it free drop in drop out with all relevant info stored in your character, story missions often feature design elements that adapt to 2 players. One mission had my buddy cart the bleeding Johnny Gat downstairs to an exit while the game sent me on a killing spree to the roof to get a helicopter and run a heli rescue in the parking lot, where my buddy was trying to hold on for dear life. You should have heard our voice chat. It's one of the coolest co-op games I've ever played.

The more I play this, the funner it gets. It's hard to put down since there's so much to do, and it's not tedious.


I agree. The first hour I was ok with, but now it's getting really hard to turn off. I was up until 2:00am last night pretty much doing nothing but trying to get to level 3 of various side misssions. Fun stuff!

-JR

wow, what can i say really? this game is all i expected GTA4 to be, and more.... amazing job from the volition team.... i'd really like to see review comparisons with the scores not reflecting the millions of dollars that rockstar paid reviewers to say nice things.

This game really is addicting, I put 30 hours into it in about 4-5 days. I couldn't stop playing it, I wish I bought it instead of renting it. Co-op sounds like a hoot, didn't get a chance to try it though. Flying around in my attack chopper with Europe blasting is good stuff.

You guys are making it really hard for me to not play this game. I am trying to work my way through Dead Space before I hit this. I was surprised how many people on my friends list were playing Saints Row 2. And none were playing Dead Space.

just play this at night, when it's too creepy to play deadspace :)

This game is fan-freaking-tastic.

I don't want to pummel a dead horse, but GTA4 left me underwhelmed; despite my extreme disappointment, I think R* created a technical masterpiece for the sandbox genre in terms of the game engine. SR2 though craps all over GTA4 in all other aspects. Gameplay, longevity, story (YES story, Niko was a chump).

I'm only like 30% done but I feel that this game is interfering w/ my professional life. The only other game that made me feel that way on the 360 was Mass Effect.

Volition still had much prove after SR1, but I don't think the naysayers can ignore SR2 - just too much fun.

I have just a couple gripes:

1. Engine streaming, cars and ppl will disappear regularly when you turn 180 degrees. This hardly ever happened in GTA4.
2. The best thing about GTA4 imo was the driving; SR2 is completely arcadey which I enjoy much less.

Graphically, GTA has much better art design and put effects to much better use. However, SR2 does have better textures and detail. Aliasing and framerate are about the same.

However, I am struck by how similar it is to the first game, with only relatively minor changes.

Think GTAIII to VC - in that regard, it's certainly on par. GTA4 jumped a generation; some love it, while others (like myself) feel ambivalent.

So has anyone done the race that involves that old plane?

:o... how do you get it off the ground? RT only goes FWD, I could not find a way to get it to elevate? I tried all the buttons.

... oh, and the disappearing elements is annoying. I'm looking for cars for the chop shop, and twice now, I see the specific car (finally) I turn around to catch up to it, and it simply disappears. Also sometimes, I'll wait for street fights to end so I can pick up the free weapons, but the weapons sometimes arent there (or you just can't always take them) Some cops shoot, but don't drop their guns? Minor issue though.

apply the gas, and press down on the joystick to adjust the rudders for lift.

So how do people find reasonable players to play with online when they want to do some co-operative gaming? I can never seem to find people who are actually interested in goal-oriented gameplay, and I again have this same problem with Saints Row 2. Everyone just wants to screw around, blow things up, and turn on cheat codes. People on my friends list mostly just want to play the latest "hot" FPS and aren't interested in much besides shooting people.

I had this same issue with Burnout Paradise, in terms of no one actually wanting to do any challenges...