Hi,

i'm planning to buy a plasma television. My main problem is that the place where i want to put the television have an ungrounded outlet. When i plug my belkin surge protector the ''grounded'' light doesn't go on but the ''protected' one is on.

All the outlet in that part of my appartment is like this. Since a live in an appartment i won't pay for fixing that (ans the owner of the block won't neither).

My main concern is for my family safety, not for my appliances !

Anyone in this situation?

New outlets are just a few dollars. Why not pull it out and see if there is a ground wire you can attach a new outlet to?

I'm not an electrician at all...there's already a 3 prong outelt, i supposed that if there was a ground it will be alreadu attached.

The ground is there to protect the equipment... It seems it would be cheaper to pay to have the problem fixed than having to buy another plasma. It might be a simple fix. As suggested, you could shut off the breaker and pull out the outlet to see if there is a ground wire. It appears that you have a 3 pronged plug so it's possible that the wire is not connected, the plug is bad or the ground wire is not connected somewhere else in the house. Most homes have a group of outlets in wired together from one circuit breaker feed. Your problem could be a loose or missing ground in any one of them.

I'm not an electrician at all...there's already a 3 prong outlet, i supposed that if there was a ground it will be already attached.

Not always true. some hack could have wired up the apartment and slapped in a 3 prong outlet without attaching a ground wire. It wouldn't hurt to take off the plate and look inside with a flash light to see if you can spot an unattached ground wire.

It is possible that the wire is in place, attached to the outlet but not attached at the other end.

You can buy a cheap outlet tester at Home depot $5. It will also tell you if the Hack attached the hot (black) wire to the correct side of the outlet. The white neutral wire should be attached to the widest blade hole in the outlet. It sounds like you should check ALL the outlets in your place. If some one cuts corners as you report (putting in a grounded receptacle but not grounding it) I would be suspect of all the wiring.

http://www.toolking.com/images/Products/bigec400-029.jpg

I would go around your apartment and test all the outlets. If the wire is in place and and it tests bad you should report it to the owner and insist on a repair. Some areas of the country may require grounded outlets in all rental units and if the owner refuses you could go the complaint route.

As for safety you should be more concerned about your kitchen, bathroom and bedroom outlets. In those areas you are actually touching/holding the appliance or light. I assume that you will use the remote for the TV.

All the outlet in that part of my appartment is like this.

From your other statement that it is a three prong outlet plus the above, it sounds like one of your branch circuits has a ground problem. If it is a whole string of outlets that are together and they are all three prong, and none of them are grounded, but all the other outlets are grounded, then the problem is likely at the breaker box (disconnected ground on that circuit) or at the first outlet on the string. Should be an easy fix in most cases.

How much are the chance for being electrocuted when connecting televisonin an ungrounded outlet ? It's also seems that many of the outlet are connected to the same breaker.

And of course when i open the television i use the remote...but there's no remote for my ps3..

It is common for several outlets (usually by room) to be connected to the same breaker. Local code in my area requires two different circuits in the kitchen (where it is more likely to have several appliances being used at once, like a blender, toaster, and coffee-maker), but the other rooms in my house are usually one one circuit.

It is very unlikely to be electrocuted connecting a TV to an ungrounded outlet. The ground serves as a backup in case of an internal short withing the device - usually on a 3-prong outlet, the ground is for the case so that in the case on an internal short the case won't be energized. The vast majority of appliances will not have such a failure.

In the case that there is no ground wire in your apartment, a fix that I believe is to code* is to replace the outlets with GFCI outlets. This will help ensure your protection in the event of a fault.

*disclaimer: I am not an electrician or an electrical inspector. Consult with someone who is before believe the advice of some schmuck on a forum. :)

What is the difference between (1) replacing a 2-prong outlet in an older home with no ground wire with a 3-prong outlet, and (2) using a 3-prong to 2-prong adapter?

The ground is there to protect the equipment...

No, it's there to protect people who might come in contact with an energized equipment chassis. It is called an equipment ground not because it protects the equipment, but because it grounds the equipment to protect the people.

What is the difference between (1) replacing a 2-prong outlet in an older home with no ground wire with a 3-prong outlet, and (2) using a 3-prong to 2-prong adapter?

Replacing a two-prong receptacle with a standard three-prong receptacle when there is no equipment ground is a violation of NEC code, unless it is protected by a GFCI receptacle or breaker. If you want to replace a two-prong with a three-prong, you can a.) replace the two-prong with a three-prong GFCI receptacle, b.) replace the two-prong with a three-prong if it is downstream of a GFCI receptacle, or c.) replace the two-prong with a three-prong if it is protected by a GFCI breaker.

As for using the adapter, you are still supposed to ground the adapter using the little metal loop on the two-prong end.

Is there a difference in using a television with 2 prong insted of 3? The television i plan to buy have 3 prong, does it make it worse than a 2 prong if i put in an ungrounded outlet?

Does remplacing the ungrounded outlet by a gfci one can change something?

I may have another solution, but is there anyone can tell me if it's safe or not. Not very far from where my television will be i've got a grounded outelt. Can I plug an extension power cord in that outelt bringing it to me tv and then plug my power bar (with surge protection) into that power cord? Will I be protected this way?

Main main bug is that in that grounded outlet there's already a power bar in one plug (this is for my computer)

a.) replace the two-prong with a three-prong GFCI receptacle,

AND mark it as ungrounded.

Defective electrical wiring is a problem that needs to be fixed. There is a safety issue here and you are right to be concerned for your families safety. I would write a nice, but firm, letter to your landlord explaining that your apartment has some defective outlets that need to be repaired. If your landlord refuses to fix the problem, write a letter to the code compliance officer for your city and include a copy of the letter you sent to your landlord. The city will make sure that the problem gets fixed.

Randy

AND mark it as ungrounded.

You are right. My bad. All three scenarios require you to mark the outlet as ungrounded. And (b) and (c) should also be marked as "GFCI Protected" since the receptacle itself would not be a GFCI receptacle.

Defective electrical wiring is a problem that needs to be fixed. There is a safety issue here and you are right to be concerned for your families safety. I would write a nice, but firm, letter to your landlord explaining that your apartment has some defective outlets that need to be repaired. If your landlord refuses to fix the problem, write a letter to the code compliance officer for your city and include a copy of the letter you sent to your landlord. The city will make sure that the problem gets fixed.

Randy

It's not necessarily defective wiring. It might be an older building with two-wire (ungrounded) outlets. You could not install them like that today. But if they are there, they would not have to be removed.

The problem might just be a three-prong receptacle on a two-wire circuit. If so, a previous tenant probably got tired of not being able to plug in three-prong cord sets, and made a quick change themself. Doesn't provide a ground, but provides someplace for the third prong to go. The landlord might be able to fix it by putting the old two-prong receptacle back on the wall.

Like sands at piers says, I live in an old building, so changing two prong for three prong seems to be what happenned here. If the landlord change the 3 prong for two prong i'l be in trouble since the television have 3 prong...

And about my idea of using a power cable from on grounded outlet (like said in post 12)

Thanks for all your ideas...and sorry for my so-so english !

And what about double insulation? If the television have 3 prong does it automatically means that is not double insulated?

Is the double insulation enough protection?

As for using the adapter, you are still supposed to ground the adapter using the little metal loop on the two-prong end.
The little loop just screws into the outlet using the faceplate screw. The screw holds the adapter in place; it doesn't provide a ground.

Ever see two prong recepticals available at Lowes or Home Depot? Ever wonder why on Earth they still sell them? The reason they still sell them is for repair work. If you replace a worn ungrounded receptical in an ungrounded system, you are supposed to replace it with a new two prong receptical. If the electrical system has a safety ground but the receptical is two prong, you may replace it with a three prong provided the ground is attached to the outlet in some fashion. A grounded metal box will ground the recpetical through the mounting screws. But make sure the electrical system has a ground. A metal box does not guarentee that. For example the house I grew up in was ungrounded. It was wired around the 1930s. The outlet boxes were metal but the wire was old two conductor cloth covered Romex with no ground wire. Here even a three prong adaptor offers no safety advantge. In the 1940s and 50s it was commen to run a grounded system but to still use two prong recepticals.

The little loop just screws into the outlet using the faceplate screw. The screw holds the adapter in place; it doesn't provide a ground.

No, that is not the purpose of the screw hole loop. It may indeed hold it in place, but you are only supposed to use it where the center screw of the face plate makes solid contact with a grounded receptacle. That way the screw loop is grounded to the receptacle, itself. If you cut open one of those two-prong adapters, you will see the third prong hole is connected to that screw prong on the outside.