I thought the story was, that the main reason that Microsoft doesn't want to have wireless internet built into the 360, is because they don't want to be locked into an outdated standard for Wi-Fi. But if that was really the case, then wouldn't they be releasing updated versions of the Wi-Fi adapter? They should have one that works withh N routers for a much faster speed.

Cause if they aren't going to actually follow up, and do what they are talking about, then they really should just put the wi-fi feature built into the 360, cause it's really annoying to have to get it seperately. I don't mind them keeping it external if they really are going to release new versions of it, that take advantage of the newer technology, but right now, that just seems more like a convienent excuse to not have it built in like their competition.

I think it was to keep cost down since everyone doesn't need it.

I think it was to keep cost down since everyone doesn't need it.

Yeah, but if they really want to hit the mass market, they need to have wi-fi built in, cause alot of people don't run wires everywhere. The hardcore online gamers do, but the general consumer is fine with having a wi-fi router and not running wires in their attics, etc, etc.

Everytime somebody from Kotaku or something asks Aaron Greenburg or Major Nelson about it, the first thing to pop out of their mouths in defense of not having built in wi-fi, is that they don't want to be locked into an outdated standard. Yet their wi-fi adapter only works with G routers and A + G routers, they don't work with N routers or anything else. So if they really want to play the "We don't want to be locked into an outdated standard" card, then they should actually follow through and have a new version of the adapter that takes advantage of N routers.

It seems to work with B routers since mine is a B routers. I don't think they need to update because it doesn't seem like N is really doing much as far as mass market. People just go to the store and pick up a wireless router. Plus N isn't really needed except for the hardcore doing HD streaming. I think the common person is still a ways away from having a setup like that.

It seems to work with B routers since mine is a B routers. I don't think they need to update because it doesn't seem like N is really doing much as far as mass market. People just go to the store and pick up a wireless router. Plus N isn't really needed except for the hardcore doing HD streaming. I think the common person is still a ways away from having a setup like that.

Last time I went to Best Buy, it seemed all they had were N routers.

Last time I went to Best Buy, it seemed all they had were N routers.

the main problem with that is you're shopping at best buy for anything other than first week movies.

Any N router should support G devices. Also, an N adapter for the 360 would only give you a speed boost for a local network - any incoming/outgoing broadband is going to be slower than a G anyway.

N Wireless won't even get ratified till late 2009 they are saying now. They might not even ratify it until the next Xbox comes out. Then maybe the new Xbox may have it built internally. Really no need to change the current adapter.

Sorry Anthony1, that was a BS excuse. They did it so they can charge $100 for a part that cost them about $3 to make, just like the hard drive and memory card prices.

N Wireless won't even get ratified till late 2009 they are saying now. They might not even ratify it until the next Xbox comes out. Then maybe the new Xbox may have it built internally. Really no need to change the current adapter.

So in other words, the excuse of not wanting to be strapped to an old standard is complete crap. So put the damn Wi-Fi adapter inside it internally already. I mean really....

i like it how it is, i dont want to pay ANY price for some piece of crap i dont need.

well, you can get N bridges, too.

I too don't want to pay for Wifi if I don't have to. I'd prefer even my PS3 didn't have it as it may have been $20+ cheaper.

i like it how it is, i dont want to pay ANY price for some piece of crap i dont need.

You really think Wii and PS3 owners are paying a big extra amount because of the built in wi-fi? Please. Don't be an MS apologizier. Face it, the fact that Wi-Fi isn't built in is totally bunk, and nothing more than a pure profit grab on MS's part.

Adding internal Wi-Fi to the Wii and PS3 might make it cost about 3 bucks more to produce, if that. Believe me, if Wi-Fi added 20 bucks to the cost of manufacturing, the Wii wouldn't have it build in. Nobody is more greedy than Nintendo. :D

Sorry Anthony1, that was a BS excuse. They did it so they can charge $100 for a part that cost them about $3 to make, just like the hard drive and memory card prices.

True, its called making money on your product. They charge for LIVE too, so feel free to get riled up about that too.

But you can use any wireless device with the 360 that will interface with a USB port, your logic is about as flawed as it can get. I've run my 360 with my Wireless B USB adapter, cost...$12 bucks. You aren't locked into a $100 adapter by any stretch of the imagination.

Like what was said before, I think it's good they sell it separately because to those who don't want or need it won't be paying for it within the cost of the system. If Sony wants to add it in to the console and raise the price, good for them.

Here's an interesting Option (http://www.xpcgear.com/wga600n.html)

True, its called making money on your product.

It's called nickel and diming because you lost billions of dollars on your previous failed console.

It's called nickel and diming because you lost billions of dollars on your previous failed console.

Right. And Microsoft is desperate to make that money back on WiFi adapters and overpriced HardDrives.

and the point of a N-router would be? G is more than fast enough to handle xbox live over an internet connection. you can easily pwn Halo noobs at speeds slower than 54 Mbit/s :D. media streaming? not exactly for the "general consumer" that you speak of. could AVSers make use of N? of course. i know I would. but we definitely aren't general consumers.
btw, i really think that wireless G cannot be considered "outdated" until the a new standard is certified.

i would confidently say that 90% of the people that use N routers don't need them. it's a fact that wireless G is way more than the average person needs, and i would say that 75% of the people that use wireless G could switch to wireless B and not notice a difference at all...

it's a fact that people will buy whatever technology is current, even though they don't need it. it's like the people that have a 1080p HDTV, but don't have a Blu-ray or HD DVD player to support it, which defeats the whole purpose of a 1080p HDTV...

Right. And Microsoft is desperate to make that money back on WiFi adapters and overpriced HardDrives.

They make that money back because the profit margins are insane. They might make a few bucks off a game in profit, but probably $60 or $70 of that Wi-Fi adapter is pure profit. It would not surprise me if $100 of each 120gb HD sold is profit. This is not a hard concept to grasp.

N Wireless won't even get ratified till late 2009 they are saying now. They might not even ratify it until the next Xbox comes out. Then maybe the new Xbox may have it built internally. Really no need to change the current adapter.

Agreed. N standard hasn't been finalized and the interoperability of any device featuring draft specs is dicey. It would be a support nightmare for them and given the RROD debacle, I doubt they're eager to field more h/w complaints...

Wii has a wireless device built-in and they STILL sell a USB addon for it.

debacle
you are one of two people, that i know of, that actually uses that word... :)

Wii has a wireless device built-in and they STILL sell a USB addon for it.
that's because not everyone has a wireless router, and it's cheaper for someone to buy the USB add-on than it is to buy a new router, even if the difference is only a few dollars...

My experience of Wireless G is that it never really delivered on the promice -it's just too slow. Steaming DVD's/Live TV via G requires near optimal conditions or else it becomes an exercise in frustration.

For me, only wireless N made media streaming a consistent; reliable activity -and I can't believe this should be described as a "niche" or "poweruser" activity.

Wireless N on the 360 is also a possibility with the following setup: A 360 bridged (via ethernet) to a PC with 802.11n wireless connection. with this setup, when I run the media centre "tune Network" I get a maxed out bar-graph,exactly the same as if it was wired. I would say it is at least double what I was getting with G. The link I provided earlier to the linksys adapter (Wireless N bridge) should provide similer performance, without the need for a PC acting as a middleman.

People should realise that with an "ethernet bridge" connection to wireless N, the 360 is not using wireless protocols -as far as it is concerned, it has T100 fast ethernet connectivity and is only limited by the speed of the bridge it is connected to -or the 100Mb fast ethernet cable -which ever one is the slower.

lastly, about gaming wirelessly, it is only my opinion, but the bandwidth "characteristics" of wired vs wireless are completely different. It is not just a question of max speed, but also consistency of traffic. Anyone who has viewed a detailed line-graph of wireless traffic knows that it spikes all over the place. A low spike can cause latency in gaming -something that won't happen with a wired connection. So (again only my opinion) the higher overall throughput of wireless N (over G) should be viewed as an important step forward for wireless gaming -but you can't beat wired, because there are no drop-offs (unless bandwidth is saturated by lots of traffic on a busy network).

Once the spec is finalized, I would fully expect them to release an N adapter. At which point we'll have a new thread asking where the WiMAX adapter is...

They make that money back because the profit margins are insane. They might make a few bucks off a game in profit, but probably $60 or $70 of that Wi-Fi adapter is pure profit. It would not surprise me if $100 of each 120gb HD sold is profit. This is not a hard concept to grasp.

Part of the profit you are talking about is made by the retailer, not all of it goes to Microsoft.