http://forums.xbox.com/21185751/ShowPost.aspx

this guy is deaf and said he is upset because EA didn't do subtitles and there was no warning on the game box. 70% of the people responding ripped him and made fun of them. That is unacceptable......
Alot of people talk about what they would do if they ever won the lottery. Well if i won the lottery i would track people down like this and ring their doorbell and after they opened the door i would kick them in the nuts and then just walk away....

if i won the lottery i would track people down like this and ring their doorbell and after they opened the door i would kick them in the nuts and then just walk away....


Sweet! Nad-Knocking is a blast! :eek:

http://forums.xbox.com/21185751/ShowPost.aspx

this guy is deaf and said he is upset because EA didn't do subtitles and there was no warning on the game box. 70% of the people responding ripped him and made fun of them. That is unacceptable......
Alot of people talk about what they would do if they ever won the lottery. Well if i won the lottery i would track people down like this and ring their doorbell and after they opened the door i would kick them in the nuts and then just walk away....
You would really enjoy "J and Silent Bob Strike Back".

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0261392/combined

http://forums.xbox.com/21185751/ShowPost.aspx

Alot of people talk about what they would do if they ever won the lottery. Well if i won the lottery i would track people down like this and ring their doorbell and after they opened the door i would kick them in the nuts and then just walk away....

Don’t you mean kick them in the bollocks! Mate I would like to spend my time hunting down spammers, while keeping them on blood transfusion while I beat the living daylights out them for week or two.:mad:

Other than that just chill out it’s only flipping game for heavens sakes.

I didn't see any dots on the box so blind people can tell what game they are holding either.

And yet he plays GH:3. ???????????


Why doesn't he make a post in every game subforum that he bought that didn't include Sub Titles? He should just email the developer. Posting it on that board is going to get flammed. Did you just start going to the Xbox forums?

http://forums.xbox.com/21185751/ShowPost.aspx

this guy is deaf and said he is upset because EA didn't do subtitles and there was no warning on the game box. 70% of the people responding ripped him and made fun of them. That is unacceptable......
Alot of people talk about what they would do if they ever won the lottery. Well if i won the lottery i would track people down like this and ring their doorbell and after they opened the door i would kick them in the nuts and then just walk away....

Which person do you want to kick in the jewels? The people that made fun of the post or the douche that posted it? "another game that sweeps the needs of the deaf and hard of hearing gamers under the rug"??? WTF is that sh*t? Is there worldwide alliance of deaf gamers that are pissed off? Do they have a PITA spokesperson like Al Sharpton that's going to let everyone know how they aren't going to take the discrimination any more?

Please.....it's not up to game developers to cater to every niche group that may or may not buy their games. Deal with it or get over it.

I hear the blind are suing the game industry next, now that they got that whole "United States of America must change all of its money" lawsuit out of the way. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-05-20-money-discrimination_N.htm

Games are not blind friendly, you know.

I hear the blind are suing the game industry next, now that they got that whole "United States of America must change all of its money" lawsuit out of the way. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-05-20-money-discrimination_N.htm

Games are not blind friendly, you know.

Yeah, I mean, how dare they demand that they be able to tell the difference between a $20 and a $1 bill? Their f-ing sense of entitlement really chaps my backside.

It almost looks like a joke. Like a social experiment or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5lleDujm7o

Yeah, I mean, how dare they demand that they be able to tell the difference between a $20 and a $1 bill? Their f-ing sense of entitlement really chaps my backside.
It’s not that. Its requiring that the money itself be changed when the technology already exist for readers. It would be cheaper for the government to issue all blind people the "readers" (much like, and more required then, Digital TV boxes) as opposed to having every ATM, Vending machine and other such devices changed to accommodate them. Not to mention that for well, centuries, blind people have managed, they are not helpless. And then of course there’s that little law that says the Dollar cannot be changed in size, which means if you are going to do a size change with bigger bills being bigger, they will have to be huge. BTW they had already ruled out the tactile items that other counties use as also not acceptable since blind people with Diabetes often lose sense of touch in their fingers. So exactly how much change is acceptable accommodation, vs how much is a burden on everyone else in society.

But the point was the blind have just as much a right to sue the game makers for not including them as the def do. So if you say people are rude if they don’t accept that game makers should make all games with subtitles then you must be all for making all games accessible to the blind as well as the def.

And yet he plays GH:3???????????
it's not impossible for someone to do something music related just because they're deaf! Marlee Matlin made it 6 weeks before she was eliminated on the last season of Dancing With the Stars, and she's deaf. you would be surprised if you knew how many people in the music and dance industry are deaf in at least one ear...

"Marlee Matlin made it 6 weeks before she was eliminated on the last season of Dancing With the Stars, and she's deaf."

You have Beethoven available as an example, a vastly influential man that did his most important work while completely deaf, and you go with some actress off of a game show? For shame.

EDIT: After wiki-ing her, "some whore off of a game show" was too harsh of a phrase for her. She's actually pretty cool. She is no Beethoven though. :)

Marlee Matlin - cute.
Beethoven - Not so much.
;)

You have Beethoven available as an example, a vastly influential man that did his most important work while completely deaf, and you go with some actress off of a game show? For shame.
LOL! it was all i could think of at the time...

Yeah, I mean, how dare they demand that they be able to tell the difference between a $20 and a $1 bill? Their f-ing sense of entitlement really chaps my backside.

Carry Quarters.

CASE DISMISSED!

it's not impossible for someone to do something music related just because they're deaf! Marlee Matlin made it 6 weeks before she was eliminated on the last season of Dancing With the Stars, and she's deaf. you would be surprised if you knew how many people in the music and dance industry are deaf in at least one ear...

So then he should deal with no sub titles since people can do more with less..

It’s not that. Its requiring that the money itself be changed when the technology already exist for readers. It would be cheaper for the government to issue all blind people the "readers" (much like, and more required then, Digital TV boxes) as opposed to having every ATM, Vending machine and other such devices changed to accommodate them. Not to mention that for well, centuries, blind people have managed, they are not helpless. And then of course there’s that little law that says the Dollar cannot be changed in size, which means if you are going to do a size change with bigger bills being bigger, they will have to be huge. BTW they had already ruled out the tactile items that other counties use as also not acceptable since blind people with Diabetes often lose sense of touch in their fingers. So exactly how much change is acceptable accommodation, vs how much is a burden on everyone else in society.

But the point was the blind have just as much a right to sue the game makers for not including them as the def do. So if you say people are rude if they don’t accept that game makers should make all games with subtitles then you must be all for making all games accessible to the blind as well as the def.

They should make new dollars scratch-&-sniff.

They should make new dollars scratch-&-sniff.
Only if they smell like hookers.

Only if they smell like hookers.

Well, you're gonna have a variety of scents.

Only if they smell like hookers.

Ewwwww...butt-sweat fifties......

Carry Quarters.

CASE DISMISSED!

They should make new dollars scratch-&-sniff.

Only if they smell like hookers.

LOL
You guys kill me!:D

Gamer Lacks Eyeballs, Kicks Ass Anyways

Kids sometimes like to gloat and say they will pwn you with their eyes closed, but this kid means it. After having his eyes surgically removed, he relearned how to do everything without the use of his vision, relying instead on echolocation. His television must have some pretty awesome surround sound then, because he is somehow able to play videogames without ever seeing the screen.

Ben Underwood was diagnosed with cancer when he was just two years old. After a few unsuccessful rounds of chemotherapy, he ended up losing both of his eyes. He now uses echolocation to get around his lack of sight. Basically, he makes clicking sounds and determines the direction, distance, and size of objects around him based on the echoes he hears back. He is essentially a real-life Daredevil that sees using sonar.

Of all the things I assumed you could do with this ability, I never thought you would be able to play videogames. I mean, logistically, you NEED to be able to see the screen to know what’s going on. How could you possibly relate distance and direction from this 2D area? Is the sound work in videogames really accurate to the point that it’s possible to play without vision? This video will answer those questions:



Okay, so he is apparently some kind of X-Man. It’s probably genetic considering his mom’s name is Aquanetta, which means she can either communicate with fish or she has an uncanny ability to stiffen your hairdo. You may also have noticed that “this week’s People magazine” was from like, two years ago, but that’s completely irrelevant so shut up.

Ben remained cancer-free for the next 15 years, but it has unfortunately reared it’s ugly head again. A new website has gone up to help Ben, aptly named HelpBen.com. You can donate to Ben’s cause, or you can just follow the links to find out more about this amazing kid and his inspirational attitude.

Keep rockin’, Ben. We here at Ripten wish you all the best.

I have known about him for a couple of years. He seems to get by just fine.

http://www.ripten.com/2008/07/04/gamer-lacks-eyeballs-kicks-ass-anyways/

Gamer Lacks Eyeballs, Kicks Ass Anyways

Kids sometimes like to gloat and say they will pwn you with their eyes closed, but this kid means it. After having his eyes surgically removed, he relearned how to do everything without the use of his vision, relying instead on echolocation. His television must have some pretty awesome surround sound then, because he is somehow able to play videogames without ever seeing the screen.

Ben Underwood was diagnosed with cancer when he was just two years old. After a few unsuccessful rounds of chemotherapy, he ended up losing both of his eyes. He now uses echolocation to get around his lack of sight. Basically, he makes clicking sounds and determines the direction, distance, and size of objects around him based on the echoes he hears back. He is essentially a real-life Daredevil that sees using sonar.

Of all the things I assumed you could do with this ability, I never thought you would be able to play videogames. I mean, logistically, you NEED to be able to see the screen to know what’s going on. How could you possibly relate distance and direction from this 2D area? Is the sound work in videogames really accurate to the point that it’s possible to play without vision? This video will answer those questions:



Okay, so he is apparently some kind of X-Man. It’s probably genetic considering his mom’s name is Aquanetta, which means she can either communicate with fish or she has an uncanny ability to stiffen your hairdo. You may also have noticed that “this week’s People magazine” was from like, two years ago, but that’s completely irrelevant so shut up.

Ben remained cancer-free for the next 15 years, but it has unfortunately reared it’s ugly head again. A new website has gone up to help Ben, aptly named HelpBen.com. You can donate to Ben’s cause, or you can just follow the links to find out more about this amazing kid and his inspirational attitude.

Keep rockin’, Ben. We here at Ripten wish you all the best.

I have known about him for a couple of years. He seems to get by just fine.

http://www.ripten.com/2008/07/04/gamer-lacks-eyeballs-kicks-ass-anyways/

i played this guy in halo 3 and he kicked my butt he uses mostlyh needlers though......

ok did ya'll not read what he wanted... What he wants is a label on the box to say whether it has captions or not, just like on the back of movie boxs (CC). So he is wanting people to contact ESRB to ask them to do it. People never seem to amaze me, this guy isn't asking for a pity party he just doesn't want to waste 60 dollars and idiots like MIKE LS make ignorant comments. Yes i supposed asking to have 2 letters on the back of a label is the same as asking for al sharpton, man you are a ******.....

ok did ya'll not read what he wanted... What he wants is a label on the box to say whether it has captions or not, just like on the back of movie boxs (CC). So he is wanting people to contact ESRB to ask them to do it. People never seem to amaze me, this guy isn't asking for a pity party he just doesn't want to waste 60 dollars and idiots like MIKE LS make ignorant comments. Yes i supposed asking to have 2 letters on the back of a label is the same as asking for al sharpton, man you are a ******.....

you want a cookie? seems your having a meltdown..............

And yet he plays GH:3. ???????????


Why doesn't he make a post in every game subforum that he bought that didn't include Sub Titles? He should just email the developer. Posting it on that board is going to get flammed. Did you just start going to the Xbox forums?

In case you hadn't noticed, the sound from GH3 isn't actually necessary at all, to play the game. So long as he can see the screen and time the button presses/strums to what appears on the screen, there isn't any reason that he shouldn't be able to do very well at the game. That's one of my biggest complaints about the GH and RB franchises, that they have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the musical talent.

P.J.

u mad?

you want a cookie? seems your having a meltdown..............

no i don't want a cookie, i would like to meet people face to face the anomity of the internet allows people to be more bold then they normally would. My point is that there is no reason to complain, rag or make fun of someone that can't hear. I guess more or less i am bitter with people in general...
People are too fat, lazy and selfish to walk 10 feet to put a shopping cart up and leave it in the parking lot where it blows into someone elses car and causes damage.
hundreds of people will drive by a female broke down on the side of the road, because they don't want to take 2 mins to ask if she needs help.
a wreck will happen that the witnesses will drive off instead of at least giving their name and number in case the other driver disputes it......
I could go on and on. So you can say whatever you want, but the reality is human deceny is going out the door...

For those wondering about the deaf and music, Mr. Holland's Opus is a pretty good movie that addresses this.

no i don't want a cookie, i would like to meet people face to face the anomity of the internet allows people to be more bold then they normally would. My point is that there is no reason to complain, rag or make fun of someone that can't hear. I guess more or less i am bitter with people in general...
People are too fat, lazy and selfish to walk 10 feet to put a shopping cart up and leave it in the parking lot where it blows into someone elses car and causes damage.
hundreds of people will drive by a female broke down on the side of the road, because they don't want to take 2 mins to ask if she needs help.
a wreck will happen that the witnesses will drive off instead of at least giving their name and number in case the other driver disputes it......
I could go on and on. So you can say whatever you want, but the reality is human deceny is going out the door...


I feel ya man. I pretty much have to carry around a shell rockhard emotional armor just to cope with everyday life. Be careful tho...your starting to sound like John Doe (Kevin Spacey) from Seven. The easiest thing to do is get upset about the wrong you see every day. The hard part (that almost no one does) is to do something about it. If you're going to do something about it make sure to focus on the good instead of the bad.

You would really enjoy "J and Silent Bob Strike Back".

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0261392/combined

That's the first thing I thought of! They took their "movie money" and knocked on doors...

Cary

It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight.


I think it's ironic that at least of those people who responded by telling the poster to "quit bitching" have probably cried foul over much less meaningful things in their lives. And yet they have taken the time to play the internet jokester and make fun of someone, who I think, has a very reasonable argument over subtitles in games. It's not something I've even considered and even taken for granted.

What the original posted said in the Xbox forum needed to be said. As someone pointed out in that thread, even if it doesn't amount to anything as far as change, at least it acts as a warning to other hearing impaired gamers who were considering the game.

I went to a wedding were 85% of the people there were deaf, including the bride and groom. TO my udder amazement all of them were dancing after dinner, and most of them were better than me (well that's not saying much, but..). I thought they'd skip all the dancing, but I guess they can feel the music's vibrations. Crazyiest thing I've ever seen and one of the funnest weddings I've ever been to

no i don't want a cookie, i would like to meet people face to face the anomity of the internet allows people to be more bold then they normally would. My point is that there is no reason to complain, rag or make fun of someone that can't hear. I guess more or less i am bitter with people in general...
People are too fat, lazy and selfish to walk 10 feet to put a shopping cart up and leave it in the parking lot where it blows into someone elses car and causes damage.
hundreds of people will drive by a female broke down on the side of the road, because they don't want to take 2 mins to ask if she needs help.
a wreck will happen that the witnesses will drive off instead of at least giving their name and number in case the other driver disputes it......
I could go on and on. So you can say whatever you want, but the reality is human deceny is going out the door...

Well, we have made some progress since the Stone Age.

I heard theres this thing called, "internet' and that you can you talk, but not see people and a place called, "forums" where you type your thoughts, but now show a pic of yourself...its a weird place.

Only if they smell like hookers.

Ah, once in a blue moon something makes me chuckle out loud. This was one of those. Not PC but dang that was funny.

Cary

Which person do you want to kick in the jewels? The people that made fun of the post or the douche that posted it? "another game that sweeps the needs of the deaf and hard of hearing gamers under the rug"??? WTF is that sh*t? Is there worldwide alliance of deaf gamers that are pissed off? Do they have a PITA spokesperson like Al Sharpton that's going to let everyone know how they aren't going to take the discrimination any more?

Please.....it's not up to game developers to cater to every niche group that may or may not buy their games. Deal with it or get over it.

**** off, not everyone is an adonis like Mike LS and developers and publishers, especially enormous ones like EA, should know this. They should do it just in the interests of being INCLUSIONARY and open to gamers of a certain disability. We are not talking about a ****ing "niche group" like furries or something, we are talking about people who CAN'T HEAR, usually because they were BORN that way. It's not their fault and it's not hard to open up the games to them so why don't they do it?

This is something I remember reading aobut in letter sections of certain mags 10+ years ago... it's an OOOLD issue and it honestly surprises me that some companies still do not get it. There is no, and I mean NO reason why every game should not have subtitles.

But the point was the blind have just as much a right to sue the game makers for not including them as the def do. So if you say people are rude if they don’t accept that game makers should make all games with subtitles then you must be all for making all games accessible to the blind as well as the def.

Your comparrison is flawed. A game that provides (optional) sub-titles is a game that is not compromised. A game that works for blind-people whould need to be written specifically for them..

I began hating people a long, long time ago. Especially those people that push you to get off the airplane even though the door isn't even open. What a bunch of fools...

No offense, but it's a pretty dumb move for your government not to have Braille in your bank notes. In Canada we've had this I think for most if not all of my entire life. I mean, it's money, it's pretty important for day-to-day living and there are quite a lot of blind or visually impaired people in the nation. Money is of national importance, affects everyone no matter what their condition is, and is the direct responsibility of the government (which answers to all citizens). Comparing that to a gaming console: apples and oranges IMO.

If any blind person cares so much about not being able to play video games designed around VISUAL gameplay then they should start a business that either creates and markets specialized games for the blind community or a "reader" device compatible for a PC or game console that help them play mainstream games. What's next? The blind want to be able to play the Wii? LOL "just point the Wiimote at the target and shoot. Point it! What's wrong with you Robert, point the damn thing and shoot! Oh, you're blind." Companies designing systems like this only design them to appeal to a certain % of the market. Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, they're just in business to make money. They don't have a "responsibility" to provide products to every person in the world. What if I'm a giant and my hands are way too big for the controller? Am I really going to complain to microsoft that they should start producing controllers for giants? It's crazy. I'm sorry, but if you are blind then you simply are not going to be able to do all the things a person with sight is able to do. If these people haven't figured this out already they're in for a miserable life.

As far as the deaf go, well when it comes to video games they obviously don't have it as bad as the blind. It's not expensive or that difficult for game developers to include subtitles. They should just do it IMO. However, I still say they are not obligated to. If they choose not to include deaf people then they lose that business and if another company is more deaf-friendly then that company will make the money from their product.

OH NO.....I've been scolded!!!!! I feel like such a fool :(

How about I suggest the guy rents rents his games before he buys them? Is that more sensitive? THEN he can stop bitching.

The short of it is, I see this guy as throwing the entitlement card and expecting special treatment. My opinion and it means nothing to anyone but me. Awesome thing is that I can express my opinion, and yes, be much more of a douche about it than I would in real life....the absolute beauty of the internet. Same with the deaf guy....I doubt he'd be as vocal in person than he is on the internet and the same as with my scolders.....you see me as an insensitive douche (my word of the month) and don't hesitate to call me names on an anonymous internet forum. If it's really that big a deal to you, don't participate.

Ewwwww...butt-sweat fifties......

Fifty? That would have to be one special stripper.

And FWIW, if I were deaf I'd be bitching too. He just wants a label. And in the end, he chooses not to buy it or rent it. He votes with his wallet like the rest of us and comments about things he doesn't like on the internets (like the rest of us).

And get it straight, the guy is deaf, not blind.

i am beginning to hate people
I have a HUGE head-start on ya.

I have a HUGE head-start on ya.

thats why the nintendo Wii is out selling the other two platforms that are online. At least you can sit on your coach and not hear people talk online with nintendo wii just play. I got cussed out on warhawk on thursday turned off the PS3 then turned on 360 then got schooled and bitched saying I was a newb on halo 3 turned that off then turned on nintendo wii tennis I played for 6 hours straight....

thats why the nintendo Wii is out selling the other two platforms that are online. At least you can sit on your coach and not hear people talk online with nintendo wii just play. I got cussed out on warhawk on thursday turned off the PS3 then turned on 360 then got schooled and bitched saying I was a newb on halo 3 turned that off then turned on nintendo wii tennis I played for 6 hours straight....

Time to clean your friends list or make a friends list. Plenty of players online to avoid that.

I began hating people a long, long time ago. Especially those people that push you to get off the airplane even though the door isn't even open. What a bunch of fools...

The trick is to double-team. The person at the Isle seat (preferably someone of large girth and height) gets up very quickly and "blocks" the people behind them. This allows you get up, stretch your legs; put your coat on; then leisurely acquire all your overhead luggage. Once you have done that, swap places with your blocker and allow them to do the same. Without a blocker, you may as well just sit it out until the expressway of human selfishness has passed you by.

Humans are so rude!!!

Humans are so rude!!!

Why don't you just shut up?

No offense, but it's a pretty dumb move for your government not to have Braille in your bank notes.

An even simpler move would be to simply have money in different sizes. That is what they do in Europe. It's actually quite surprising the US government has not done this yet (though, I think there was a court case in which it was basically ordered that the Mint must do this, but it might not be resolved yet).

The short of it is, I see this guy as throwing the entitlement card and expecting special treatment. My opinion and it means nothing to anyone but me. Awesome thing is that I can express my opinion, and yes, be much more of a douche about it than I would in real life....the absolute beauty of the internet. Same with the deaf guy....I doubt he'd be as vocal in person than he is on the internet and the same as with my scolders.....you see me as an insensitive douche (my word of the month) and don't hesitate to call me names on an anonymous internet forum. If it's really that big a deal to you, don't participate.


No, it is not an "entitlement" and it is not about special treatment, its about the guy asking for the developers to put a little (and it is a little) work so that he can enjoy his game *just like everyone else*. It's a freaking disability, don't you know anybody with disabilities? This is the type of callous, uncouth behavior that the OP was complaining about.

And sure, you have a right to be a fool online but don't be surprised if some people call you out on it. In more adult forums, which I do believe AVS is, its generally not acceptable to act like a moron and then say "omg its my right".

the whole idea that it is acceptable to act like an idiot online is my problem, people do whatever they want with no reprecussions. If you acted like that at in elem. school you get knocked out. But as an adult you do what you want and nobody does anything about it. I am not saying we need to start fighting, but people need to stand up and say something.
Mikels, look i don't think you read the whole thread, he is not asking for the court to tell them they must put subtitles in. He just wants notification before he purchases. anyways i don't usually agrue with people that are selfish, so i am pretty much done with you. feel free to "rip me" or whatever else you need to do to feel better...

No offense, but it's a pretty dumb move for your government not to have Braille in your bank notes.

the truth is, most Americans see people with disabilities, illnesses etc. as less than human. we don't want to admit that we ourselves could become damaged or killed; we have a similar denial of death; we act like the only real people are the beautiful, happy ones; i have been terribly critically ill for almost 5 years now and i've been astonished at how even people close to me will write me off and act like i don't exist. they don't want to acknowledge their own frailty.................that, and this country is simply founded on dog-eat-dog capitalism, and we honor those that step on enough people so that they can rise up; it's almost a niche-ian thing, survival of the fittest, no compassion, just competitive greed



.....on a bit of a sidenote, i wanted to say: i am absolutely blown away by the racism and horrid ignorant comments on xbox live. i know that punk kids often say things just because they can get away with it over the internet, but i think it goes beyond that. i really think racism and scapegoating have made a comeback in the USA, a country that is confused and scared right now; it's terribly sad. the "nigger" comments, the "jew" and "fag" stuff......it's just unreal; i feel surrounded by intolerant fools, ignorant and isolated, and afraid to acknowledge anyone that is different from themselves

the truth is, most Americans see people with disabilities, illnesses etc. as less than human. we don't want to admit that we ourselves could become damaged or killed; we have a similar denial of death; we act like the only real people are the beautiful, happy ones; i have been terribly critically ill for almost 5 years now and i've been astonished at how even people close to me will write me off and act like i don't exist. they don't want to acknowledge their own frailty.................that, and this country is simply founded on dog-eat-dog capitalism, and we honor those that step on enough people so that they can rise up; it's almost a niche-ian thing, survival of the fittest, no compassion, just competitive greed

I disagree. How do you know most American see people with disabilities that way? Are you simply basing it on what you read on the internet or your familial problems?

it's just unreal; i feel surrounded by intolerant fools, ignorant and isolated, and afraid to acknowledge anyone that is different from themselves

I have over 60 friends on Live since 2003. I have been able to avoid the problems with players hot mouths like you describe simply by filtering who I play with and the tools available on Live. Yet I live in military base housing and over hear my neighbor's 18 year old daughter calling me and my kids niggers and she has never spoken to me or my kids in the last year that I lived in this house. I had options to take care of that issue too.
I have been surrounded by them offline all my life.

No, it is not an "entitlement" and it is not about special treatment, its about the guy asking for the developers to put a little (and it is a little) work so that he can enjoy his game *just like everyone else*. It's a freaking disability, don't you know anybody with disabilities? This is the type of callous, uncouth behavior that the OP was complaining about.

And sure, you have a right to be a fool online but don't be surprised if some people call you out on it. In more adult forums, which I do believe AVS is, its generally not acceptable to act like a moron and then say "omg its my right".

the whole idea that it is acceptable to act like an idiot online is my problem, people do whatever they want with no reprecussions. If you acted like that at in elem. school you get knocked out. But as an adult you do what you want and nobody does anything about it. I am not saying we need to start fighting, but people need to stand up and say something.
Mikels, look i don't think you read the whole thread, he is not asking for the court to tell them they must put subtitles in. He just wants notification before he purchases. anyways i don't usually agrue with people that are selfish, so i am pretty much done with you. feel free to "rip me" or whatever else you need to do to feel better...

And I'm the one who doesn't read posts thoroughly? My big gripe with the quote posted by the OP (and what got me started in the first place) is the line about the "rights of deaf gamers" (paraphrasing...don't want to dig back and pull the exact). What frigging rights do gamers have......handicapped or not? When I hear someone mention "rights" that somehow exist outside our constitution, those people automatically are tagged as entitlement whores in my eyes. There are so many so-called rights that people claim that do not and have never existed and people have the gall to actually stand on these "rights" and based their decisions and actions on them.

No offense meant to anyone, but don't put words in my mouth either. Just because you see my posts as selfish, immature or whatever, stick to what I actually said and don't add to it to make your point. I never said I thought the guy was going to file a lawsuit, and I never made a 13yo text message comment like "omg its my right". Deal?

My whole point is that, and if I stepped out of bounds in somebody's eyes, then pardon me. Feel free to ignore me if you wish, I just don't buy into total PC in every walk of life.

The words "rights of ____" are shorthand. Maybe you should, you know, listen to what the person is asking for and respond to that instead of a phrase taken out of context. Because, really, there is nothing wrong with asking "hey could you put some subtitles into the game, or at least tell us there aren't?".

The whole problem with so much in this country is that everyone reacts to buzzwords and shorthand instead of substance, so politicians and pundits are able to toss around buzzwords to make themselves and their reactionary followers feel good without having to actually say anything.

EDIT: yes, you ARE the one who doesn't read posts thoroughly. I just read the post in the OP's link and the guy says "the *needs* of hard of hearing and deaf gamers". Not rights. And I do believe that hard of hearing and deaf gamers should be informed as to the accessibility of games before they buy it.

OK, I digress about the "rights" and "needs". My oversight.....hey look dad, I can admit when I'm wrong!!!!....but it's still just as silly in my eyes. What needs do gamers have? How silly have we become as a society when we see anything to do with a video game as a need?
If the developer prints this on the package, where do you stop? It's bad enough that they have to put so many warnings for epileptics on the damn box.....if you have epilepsy, you should probably have figured from the start that video games aren't the best idea for you.
Should they put braille on the back of the box saying that vision is required for the enjoyment of this game, or something stating that those without thumbs might want to pass this one over?

What happened to personal responsibility and doing some research before dropping $60 on a frivolous purchase? I'm sure the info is out there if the guy would actually look first.

What needs do gamers have? How silly have we become as a society when we see anything to do with a video game as a need?


It's within the context of the game buying experience. This guy is a consumer of games, he is not asking for games as a universal right. He is saying that a company the size of EA should be giving deaf and hard of hearing gamers a worthwhile experience with subtitles. And what is wrong with saying that? You could go online and say you want games with good graphics, how is that any different from him saying he wants games to have subtitles?

What happened to personal responsibility and doing some research before dropping $60 on a frivolous purchase?

The whole point is that the information isn't easily available. If the guy could have hopped on Bad Company's website and it says "no subtitles" he wouldn't have bought it. If the guy could have read a review that said it has no subtitles he wouldn't have bought it. The problem is the information isn't there! And don't tell me he could just have tried the demo, everyone knows demos are often based on early builds with incomplete feature sets.

I understand the "do your research" angle but at the same time the publishers gotta be open with this and the reviewers really should mention it.

And, even if he did do his own research and found out Bad Company didn't have subtitles and he did not buy it because of that, he still has the right (yes, the right) to complain about EA ignoring the deaf gaming community.

Well, at least we've finally sifted through the slop somewhat and can agree on a couple of things :)

I don't have issue with a deaf person playing games. Just don't think it's up to the developer to put out an all inclusive list of features (and non-features) so that the consumer can weigh every point of the game before trying or buying.
And I don't have issue with him going online and saying that he wishes they would put the info on the box. It was the use of his deaf gamers bill of needs that seemed kind of over the top. To me anyhow.

And as for the info not being easily available....how do you know that? Did you do the research on it? Not ripping you, but I didn't see that the guy said whether or not he did much research at all before buying the game (may have missed it though). He seemingly assumed that it would suite his "needs" before he bought it.
And here's the end all....how difficult is it to shoot an email to the developer and find this info out if it truly is not available anywhere else on the internets. Yeah, maybe it takes a few days before a reply comes, but (no offense), being handicapped sometimes has drawbacks other than the handicap itself. Try as some people may to ensure a level playing field for everyone regardless, it just won't ever be that way.

All that said, I don't have a problem with this particular instance, but it's the culmination of this and every other "special needs" group and what it does to the experience (gaming or anything else) as a whole.
Not that I'm saying they're the same (for the record), but it's similar to all the BS lawsuits that get filed nowadays....once a precedent is set and the doors are opened for anyone with a grip to get their way, goods become more expensive and companies go out of business.
Yes, this guy can ask for whatever he wishes, I just hate it when people start expecting things (especially non essential things) to be made with "them" in mind. That's when we'll see our games knocked up to $65 a pop because of the extra programming involved trying to make everyone happy.

It's a bummer... but you have to realize most people posting on those forums are timmy's aka young kiddies that act a fool with emuscles all day but in person are little twirps that need their parents to give them a beat down every once in awhile

...or something stating that those without thumbs might want to pass this one over?


That was damn funny. :D

He apparently did enough research to determine the game doesn't have subtitles as he said he wasn't going to buy it or rent it b/c of that. Doesn't sound like he actually played it at all. It also sounds like he wants something on the package saying it does not contain subtitles rather than something on the package saying it does when it has subtitles.

I've got no problem with him wishing it had subtitles, but calling the game discriminatory because of that is a bit of a stretch. His rhetoric is a bit heated as well.

And just for shits and giggles, if you can't play it without subtitles, why would he have to urge other deaf people not to buy it? Seems like they wouldn't be able to play it either w/o subtitles...

Here is what he wrote for posterity:

Tauberkuppler wrote:

Discriminatory!!
This game was just elected as game of the month with IGN, yet it's discrimnatory. How, you may ask. NO SUBTITLES! Another game that sweeps the needs of Deaf and Hard of Hearing gamers under the rug. Unequal access to media is unacceptable. Imagine anticipating a game and after spending your $60 and it's in Russian-- you'd have no idea what's going on and feel like you've been cheated. The developers don't have time to add subtitles, maybe? What if Madden came out with all of the players white because they "didn't have time" to adjust the pigment of each players' skin. Unacceptable. I'm not buying it, I'm not renting it, I'm not going to have anything to do with it. They are not seeing a dime out of me. And I'm encouraging other Deaf and Hard of Hearing gamers (and those empathetic to the cause) to boycott such inequity.

In the very least it should be required, either by Microsoft or even the ESRB, that on the back of the box along with all of the other required information (how many players, if it uses XBL, etc...) whether or not the game has subtitles.

^^

Not sure if the quote can stay since it was posted elsewhere, but thanks for taking the time to post that. Reminds me why I initially thought the guy was a douche. His overall tone is just......fill-in-the-blank.

^^

Not sure if the quote can stay since it was posted elsewhere, but thanks for taking the time to post that. Reminds me why I initially thought the guy was a douche. His overall tone is just......fill-in-the-blank.

I agree.

That's one of my biggest complaints about the GH and RB franchises, that they have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the musical talent.

P.J.

Complaint....its a GAME.....how would you FIX this part, besides selling an actual guitar and making people "Play along" to the actual notes on a fretboard!? :P

Kicking alot of ass in R6 Vegas doesn't get me an honorary appointment to the Navy SEALs either :P

Well, at least we've finally sifted through the slop somewhat and can agree on a couple of things :)

I don't have issue with a deaf person playing games. Just don't think it's up to the developer to put out an all inclusive list of features (and non-features) so that the consumer can weigh every point of the game before trying or buying.
And I don't have issue with him going online and saying that he wishes they would put the info on the box. It was the use of his deaf gamers bill of needs that seemed kind of over the top. To me anyhow.

And as for the info not being easily available....how do you know that? Did you do the research on it? Not ripping you, but I didn't see that the guy said whether or not he did much research at all before buying the game (may have missed it though). He seemingly assumed that it would suite his "needs" before he bought it.
And here's the end all....how difficult is it to shoot an email to the developer and find this info out if it truly is not available anywhere else on the internets. Yeah, maybe it takes a few days before a reply comes, but (no offense), being handicapped sometimes has drawbacks other than the handicap itself. Try as some people may to ensure a level playing field for everyone regardless, it just won't ever be that way.

I think this was one of the most ironic posts I've ever read. Your latest excuse for your anger is that this fellow didn't do his research? The whole reason you keep having to com up with new justifications is that you can't be bothered to read what this fellow's complaint is.

^^

How'd I get it wrong this time, teacher?

Why exactly do you (or anyone else for that matter) have a problem with me having an opinion? Just because you don't agree with it, I shouldn't have it? How does that work?

Instead of scolding another member for their opinion, why don't you explain your own opinion instead of ripping mine apart. I never asked anybody to agree with me.

It sounds like the OP isn't the only one that has started hating people......

:rolleyes:

^^

How'd I get it wrong this time, teacher?

Why exactly do you (or anyone else for that matter) have a problem with me having an opinion? Just because you don't agree with it, I shouldn't have it? How does that work?

Instead of scolding another member for their opinion, why don't you explain your own opinion instead of ripping mine apart. I never asked anybody to agree with me.

It sounds like the OP isn't the only one that has started hating people......

:rolleyes:

Here is my opinion. I think you should take the post I have quoted above, send it to yourself in the past, and read it before you start whining about the deaf guy's opinion. Out of curiosity, why is it OK to rip apart other people's opinions but it is not OK to rip apart yours? Why are you entitled to special treatment?

Honestly, the guy is just asking that he be able to tell if a game has closed captioning or not. I get that you don't care about this feature, but why does it bother you so much that it matters to him? Look at the analogy he made. Would you be happy with a game that was in a language you didn't understand, and there was nothing on the packaging to indicate it?

I also have a beef with anyone who believes their wants are normal, but other people are asking for special treatment. Talk about feeling entitled.

Well, the difference I see is that the quote pointed to in the OP was not made by an AVS member. I have respect for folks here and stop short of tearing into things that they say. Maybe that's hypocritical to you, but I don't really care. That's how I play.

I realize what his core complaint is, but I'm not the only one that thinks the way he put it across made him come across like a total ass.

Also, if you'd re-read one of my posts, I said I didn't have a problem with him asking for the disclaimer, but he also mentions wanting them to put the time/effort into subtitling the game, which adds expense to the development process and adds little to no value for 99.9% of the gaming population. Everyone has to admit, video gaming is an audio/visual experience, right?

As for your last comment....not quite sure where you're coming from there. I don't remember expressing any of my own wants, just my own opinion about another post on another board.

I think the mood slime from Ghostbusters 2 has infected AVS today. Yeesh.

Ha!

Well, I just can't join you in your shock that a gamer dares express a desire for a feature in games. And I certainly don't agree that game playing is a audio experience for deaf people. Closed captioning is pretty standard in entertainment. Most TV shows and movies have it. It is something used by far more than 0.01% of the population. It is also something that takes relatively little effort to add to a game.

Well, I just can't join you in your shock that a gamer dares express a desire for a feature in games. And I certainly don't agree that game playing is a audio experience for deaf people. Closed captioning is pretty standard in entertainment. Most TV shows and movies have it. It is something used by far more than 0.01% of the population. It is also something that takes relatively little effort to add to a game.

No subtitles at the movie theaters or IMAX.

No subtitles at the movie theaters or IMAX.


Only because there hasn't been a successful lawsuit yet...:D

No subtitles at the movie theaters or IMAX.

That is certainly true. Movie theaters provide large scale public experiences. You will notice IMAX movies also don't come with remote controls for everyone. They don't have 15 languages playing at once. You can't pause the movie because you have to go to the bathroom. DVDs, TV shows, and games are personal experiences, and as such try to cater to a variety of individual needs and wants. This typically includes closed captioning.

Consider movies like Hero or like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. These movies were not marketed as non-English films. But you have an expectation that you will have access to subtitles (or voice overs) when you buy a movie like this on DVD. I would be ticked off if I paid for Crouching Tiger and couldn't understand what anyone was saying. I don't think it is unreasonable for me to expect the packaging to tell me what languages are available on the DVD.

No subtitles at the movie theaters or IMAX.

Maybe not in Arkansas. ;) Most movie theaters have setups to accommodate both blind and deaf customers. Some even show movies with open captioning and descriptive audio.

Widespread? No, but it's out there. Both theaters I use have certain screen times set aside for open captioning. And, the descriptive audio comes from a set of headphones for pretty much any showing, I believe.


Here's how Fandango describes it:

"Open captioning converts a movie's dialogue, noises and sound effects into white text, and superimposes it over the screen images. The sound is normal, and the captions are visible to all. Unlike TV’s closed-captioned text, open captioning is not surrounded by clunky black boxes. Instead, captions are more artistically integrated onto the screen.

Descriptive audio provides audio descriptions of key visual elements of feature films to enhance the enjoyment of our visually impaired guests. Guests must obtain special equipment from Management to receive this accommodation."