The Theta Digital thread states that the Casablanca will be the first 'high end' pre/pro to support HDMI 1.3 and the HBR codecs. I was curious where the other major vendors (Lexicon, Meridian, Krell, Halcro, etc) are with HDMI 1.3 support. Are there upgrade paths or new products in the pipeline? Anyone know?

Lexicon is NOT 1.3 at this time. The newer MV-5 is 1.1

But what does that mean. If they support any of the 1.3 features, they can say it supports 1.3 whether or not it supports the features that may be relevant.

AFAIK a number of other processors have fairly thorough support of 1.3. I know the denon processor supports I think all of 1.3 features for both audio and video, so Theta's claim is fairly odd it seems to me, unless they don't consider $7k a high-end processor.

There are rumors that Meridian will introduce an external box at CEDIA that will take in HDMI 1.3 and output MHR for their 861 and G68 processors. Nothing concrete however. Currently the Meridian processors do not support HDMI at all.

This apperars a case of 'trickle up' where HT receivers (thought Denon only made receivers) have this capability before the hi-end separates do!

I also met with C&E Marketing. Not that I'm a Krell fan, but I believe I heard the rep. say that Krell will have a 1.3 upgrade announced at CEDIA, or something like that.

Remember you do not need HDMI 1.3 for blu ray and lossless audio.

While you don't need 1.3 for lossless audio, there are some nice features when it is bitstreamed to the processor. Time-delays and effects that are not easily achieved when the player decodes and outputs through analog.

It will be interesting to see what companies actually move forward with HDMI 1.3 and how successful or unsuccessful they will be.

-Matt

This apperars a case of 'trickle up' where HT receivers (thought Denon only made receivers) have this capability before the hi-end separates do!Well, if you can order 10,000 chips at a time, you may get priority over someone who can only order 500. :cool:

Well, if you can order 10,000 chips at a time, you may get priority over someone who can only order 500. :cool:

Is it a shortage of chips, a shortage of experienced engineers that's the problem, or development costs that are the problem?

Remember you do not need HDMI 1.3 for blu ray and lossless audio.
Well . . . maybe.

In my case, I have a Lex 12B pre/pro. I have a 1080P monitor. Two of my sources are HDMI, and one DVI/composite. I have room for one HDMI cable behind the wall from the rack to the monitor.
My 'switching' unit is a DVDO iscan 50pro. Frankly, pass-though mode has far to many artifacts; I don't know why. Thus, everything needs to go through the processor. The audio sync issue is unacceptable using analog outputs bypassing the unit. I'm cool with no lossless audio for now, but it is "plain dumb stupid" to spend anything on a pre/pro that is already obsolete. I've already taken a bath on the Lex, so I'm not going to buy an obsolete unit and watch it become virtually worthless in a matter of months.

While you don't need 1.3 for lossless audio, there are some nice features when it is bitstreamed to the processor. Time-delays and effects that are not easily achieved when the player decodes and outputs through analog.

I did not say anything about analog, you can use HDMI other then 1.3 and send the audio as PCM and get the same resault. Remember blu ray spec calls for the use of PCM not bitstream.

My 'switching' unit is a DVDO iscan 50pro. Frankly, pass-though mode has far to many artifacts; I don't know why. Thus, everything needs to go through the processor.

You know there are $100 switchers out there that will accomplish that without adding or losing anything in the signal.

My VP routes a delayed PCM to my Pre/pro, and sends a beautiful image to my monitor. Yet without 1.3 you don't get Dolby Digital TrueHD & DTS-HD MA, correct?

The new mid-fi receivers and pre/pros are offering HDMI 1.3, HDMI switching, video scaling, de-interlacing, noise reduction, audio room correction, streaming audio, etc. I'd like something built better than an Onkyo, and something that won't trade at 10% of it's cost a year later.

Well . . . maybe.

In my case, I have a Lex 12B pre/pro. I have a 1080P monitor. Two of my sources are HTMI, and one DVI/composite. I have room for one HTMI cable behind the wall from the rack to the monitor.
My 'switching' unit is a DVDO iscan 50pro. Frankly, pass-though mode has far to many artifacts; I don't know why. Thus, everything needs to go through the processor. The audio sync issue is unacceptable using analog outputs bypassing the unit. I'm cool with no lossless audio for now, but it is "plain dumb stupid" to spend anything on a pre/pro that is already obsolete. I've already taken a bath on the Lex, so I'm not going to buy an obsolete unit and watch it become virtually worthless in a matter of months.


Apparently your Lex doesn't do "HTMI" properly.


In fact, I don't know of any component that's even heard of "HTMI"!!!@@@:D

Apparently your Lex doesn't do "HTMI" properly.


In fact, I don't know of any component that's even heard of "HTMI"!!!@@@:D
I guess you never made a typo :rolleyes:

I guess you never made a typo :rolleyes:

I never ever made a typo that ONEOBGYN didn't catch and make fun of. HA!:D

My VP routes a delayed PCM to my Pre/pro, and sends a beautiful image to my monitor. Yet without 1.3 you don't get Dolby Digital TrueHD & DTS-HD MA, correct?

PCM has nothing to do with the video and yes you can still get lossless audio Dolby Digital TrueHD & DTS-HD MA through PCM with non HDMI 1.3 hardware.

The new mid-fi receivers and pre/pros are offering HDMI 1.3, HDMI switching, video scaling, de-interlacing, noise reduction, audio room correction, streaming audio, etc. I'd like something built better than an Onkyo, and something that won't trade at 10% of it's cost a year later.

What makes you think the onkyo is not built good? If you buy a product with everything one needs you would not have to trade it off or sell it for something new since nothing will change.

PCM has nothing to do with the video and yes you can still get lossless audio Dolby Digital TrueHD & DTS-HD MA through PCM with non HDMI 1.3 hardware.


I was under the impression that HBR could only be passed via HDMI, like 1080P.




What makes you think the onkyo is not built good? If you buy a product with everything one needs you would not have to trade it off or sell it for something new since nothing will change.

I'm not saying that the Onkyo is poorly constructed, just that it would be nice to have options at different price points.

If you buy a product with everything one needs you would not have to trade it off or sell it for something new since nothing will change.
Agreed. That's what I'm saying, and that is what I'm looking for.

I was under the impression that HBR could only be passed via HDMI, like 1080P.

The player losslessly unpacks DTS HD MA and DD THD into multichannel PCM, which is then output over HDMI 1.1. Lots of the HDMI-capable prepros, including the Lexicon MC-12HD, accept this input. HDMI 1.3 isn't required.

--Andre

Thanks guys. It's not like I haven't been reading posts trying to sort this all out. It is really quite confusing.

With Theta's history, I would not expect them to be first with HDMI 1.3 despite their promises. How would they know where their competition is? On the other hand, I would expect the likes of Lexicon, Meridian or Halcro to beat them to it.

With Theta's history, I would not expect them to be first with HDMI 1.3 despite their promises. How would they know where their competition is? On the other hand, I would expect the likes of Lexicon, Meridian or Halcro to beat them to it.

Jeff, ATI has injected financial resources and push into Theta. And Theta doesn't even have HDMI 1.1. So once the new Theta made the decision to jump aboard the HDMI audio bandwagon, it makes sense to proceed full speed ahead to HDMI 1.3 since its now available.

On the other hand, Lex and Halcro already have HDMI 1.1, so they may not be in as much as a rush to go to HDMI 1.3.

Well, if you can order 10,000 chips at a time, you may get priority over someone who can only order 500. :cool:

True, but if you are charging $20,000 for a processor you can afford to pay a bit more also!

Jeff, ATI has injected financial resources and push into Theta. And Theta doesn't even have HDMI 1.1. So once the new Theta made the decision to jump aboard the HDMI audio bandwagon, it makes sense to proceed full speed ahead to HDMI 1.3 since its now available.

On the other hand, Lex and Halcro already have HDMI 1.1, so they may not be in as much as a rush to go to HDMI 1.3.

For your sake. I hope so.. But I am a bit cynical towards high end manufacturers in general and promises to be 'first' and 'best'. In Theta's case with new management, getting the ball rolling so quicly may be more than ATI bargained for. You've been here a while, there are 10s if not 100s of such promises that manufacturers have made that have ended up to be pure BS but with good, high minded intentions. Many times, I think such grandiose promises are geared to make you NOT buy a competitors product that might make it out before theirs. I mean Theta, and Evelyn, tried this before with a purported HDMI upgrade (and I waited a year for a HDMI update that was promised within weeks of my original purchase)...:D

In my view, the real benefit from this new push for HDMI 1.3 is the ability to support 7.1 channel output. In theory, HDMI 1.1 can support 7.1 channel output as well, but in practice it seems it was limited to 5.1.

It really is not necessary to decode the bitstreams in the processor if you can get full LPCM out of your source device. Bass management, delays, etc. all operate at the LPCM level anyway.

I'm cool with no lossless audio for now, but it is "plain dumb stupid" to spend anything on a pre/pro that is already obsolete. I've already taken a bath on the Lex, so I'm not going to buy an obsolete unit and watch it become virtually worthless in a matter of months.

Amen. Unfortunately, I have stood at the front of the line way too many times in audio prodcuts and paid dearly (e.g I bought one of the early Meridian DVD players that could not be upgraded !!).

I'm still using my Casablanca II and using all digital outs to either external DACs and/or a digital room correction systems. Until Theta get both HDMI support and well done room correction in the same box (and provides a reasonably cost efective upgrade), I'm fine where I am. Sounds great to me with plain old Dolby or DTS and I use a very inexpensive HDMI switch box (OPPO that cost $99 including a remote). Picture is awesome as well (JVC RS2). The problems this delay causes Theta is that other folks may get there first and customers may switch allegiance. On the other hand, The good news about Theta is that they have historically done a great job of providing reasonably cost effective upgrades. So we shall see.

Ditto. HDMI 1.3 does nothing for me either. My Halcro is HDMI 1.2 and does the lossless codecs in the digital domain and passes 1080P24 video. There will have to be a significant feature set added for me to move. For now, all you need is HDMI and some good DACs for a great sonic experience.

I was under the impression that HBR could only be passed via HDMI, like 1080P.





I'm not saying that the Onkyo is poorly constructed, just that it would be nice to have options at different price points.

Agreed. That's what I'm saying, and that is what I'm looking for.

Like Doug said, there are players that can convert the DTS MA and Dolby TrueHD streams to PCM and send them via hdmi to your ssp. There are some great sounding dvds using regular dts and dolby. But when you hear the quality of something like Spiderman2 on Bluray you can't help but be impressed by the sound. The PS3 is still the cheapest way to enjoy ALL of the sound codecs in their glory by outputting pcm over hdmi.

Like Doug said, there are players that can convert the DTS MA and Dolby TrueHD streams to PCM and send them via hdmi to your ssp. There are some great sounding dvds using regular dts and dolby. But when you hear the quality of something like Spiderman2 on Bluray you can't help but be impressed by the sound. The PS3 is still the cheapest way to enjoy ALL of the sound codecs in their glory by outputting pcm over hdmi.


*One caveat... the PS3 cannot output DTS MA 7.1 over LPCM. 5.1 is max. So far, only the Denon / Marantz can do 7.1 DTS MA LPCM.

*One caveat... the PS3 cannot output DTS MA 7.1 over LPCM. 5.1 is max. So far, only the Denon / Marantz can do 7.1 DTS MA LPCM.

I believe this has been fixed now with the latest firmware for the PS3.

So once the new Theta made the decision to jump aboard the HDMI audio bandwagon,

Its more then a bandwagon it is needed.

I believe this has been fixed now with the latest firmware for the PS3.

Correct, it was fixed some time ago.

Well, if you can order 10,000 chips at a time, you may get priority over someone who can only order 500. :cool:

Isn't what Denon and onkyo did called:"cornering the market?"