I have used vga for the last 18 months or so
and have just changed to a hdmi xbox

and have noticed a loss of picture quality
on looking into this deeper tonight
it seems that there's a serious floor in the 360's hdmi output

an easy way to test this is (in the dark is best)

http://www.shonk.org/Brightness.jpg

open that picture on the 360 and set your tv's brightness to full

and you should see what i can only explain as jpeg like artifacts

I have tested this on

My 40" Samsung LCD and my Xbox 360
My Son's 37" Evesham LCD on his Xbox 360

And it does it on both

To confirm it isnt my TV I tried it on my PS3 and it looks fine on the PS3




If all Xbox 360's do this over Hdmi im surprised this hasnt been picked up on
can some of you guys try this plz

.

..

Seems it wouldnt let me post a link until i had posted 3 times

http://www.shonk.org/Brightness.jpg


This is very hard to pick up with a camera it looks worse than the picture is showing
but you can clearly see there's something up

Reference level Standard shows this better than expanded
It shows up worse on black but if you look long and hard at other colours it actually does it on everything
not just black

Make sure you zoom in 100% on the image

http://www.shonk.org/Xbox/Xbox.jpg

http://www.shonk.org/Xbox/PS3.jpg

I still don't understand what you are trying to show us.

It looks like a scaling artifact to me. The 360 and PS3 scale JPEGs quite differently.

Its noise in the hdmi output
try it and see
its shocking

its nothing to do with the image it will do it with a blank screen
the black image is just used to get a dark screen

Its noise in the hdmi output
try it and see
its shocking

its nothing to do with the image it will do it with a blank screen
the black image is just used to get a dark screen

You'll almost always see dithering noise in a really dark screen with the brightness cranked so high.

You'll almost always see dithering noise in a really dark screen with the brightness cranked so high.

try it there's something seriously wrong with the 360's hdmi output
then try the ps3

you use hdmi for a better picture
i will be going back to vga as its a much cleaner signal

its alot worse than i can show with a camera
once you know its there you notice it all the time
ingame

try it there's something seriously wrong with the 360's hdmi output
then try the ps3

you use hdmi for a better picture
i will be going back to vga as its a much cleaner signal

its alot worse than i can show with a camera
once you know its there you notice it all the time
ingame

The dithering noise is due to the TV. It's because an LCD (like most FP displays) can't actually produce absolute black, so it dithers to achieve an approximation. This combined with the scaling is likely leading to what you're seeing. The main difference is that the two systems handle JPEGs very differently. I'd be interested to know what a DVD calibration looks like at 480p as well as a hi-def calibration disc at 720p or 1080p. I'm not sure what the native resolution of your TV is, but one thing you might try is playing with the output resolution to see if the scaling aspect gets better when one device or the other is doing most of the scaling.

Try it

I'm seeing the same artifacting in your picture as I am on your menu that says brightness. And I don't have a ps3 to try it. Nor do I want to see it all the time as I'm quite happy with my 360 on HDMI.

try it there's something seriously wrong with the 360's hdmi output
then try the ps3

you use hdmi for a better picture
i will be going back to vga as its a much cleaner signal

its alot worse than i can show with a camera
once you know its there you notice it all the time
ingame

I think it is just HDMI in general. I noticed this artifacting on my PS3 (sky, solid colors in Resistance) connected to the same set as my 360. The VGA signal on the 360 is clean, the PS3 has this tiling/dither effect. I think HDMI sucks in general. That is why I always get the 360 versions of games, I don't care for the HDMI artifacts on the PS3, and PS3 has no VGA out.

Shonk,

Set your 360 to use expanded video range instead of standard (or normal) and see what the results are. If you're already using expanded (since you uses VGA before), try standard(or normal). You need to match your Xbox 360 output range with your TV input. And properly calibrate your TV so that you won't see blacker-than-black signals (BTB) if you use standard output range.

The ps3 gives a much cleaner display than the 360 on hdmi
its realy upset me i have spent alot to go hdmi on the 360

Another xbox
Hdmi AV Breakout box for the 360
hdmi auto switch box (yes i tried without that connected)

im realy supprised that there hasnt been a big kickup about this tbh
as it smacks me in the face when using hdmi on the 360

and its a step down compared to vga when its supposed to be a step up



I think it is just HDMI in general. I noticed this artifacting on my PS3 (sky, solid colors in Resistance) connected to the same set as my 360. The VGA signal on the 360 is clean, the PS3 has this tiling/dither effect. I think HDMI sucks in general. That is why I always get the 360 versions of games, I don't care for the HDMI artifacts on the PS3, and PS3 has no VGA out.

Yep im allready using expanded to try and hide it as much as i can
but in the long term im going back to vga i think

its totally shocking how bad the output is on hdmi with the 360
you can clearly see like white boxes all over the screen

vga is hands down 10x better

i joined the avsforums thinking people in the forum would want to know about issuses like this

but it seems most arnt that bothered which also supprised me

thanks for the tip's btw even if i had done it allready :p

Shonk,

Set your 360 to use expanded video range instead of standard (or normal) and see what the results are. If you're already using expanded (since you uses VGA before), try standard(or normal). You need to match your Xbox 360 output range with your TV input. And properly calibrate your TV so that you won't see blacker-than-black signals (BTB) if you use standard output range.

The ps3 gives a much cleaner display than the 360 on hdmi


That is possible. I never connected my 360 with HDMI as I saw no reason to. I do notice those dither artifacts on PS3 though with HDMI and it bothered me. I also noticed some ringing on the PS3 HDMI on high contrast edges.

So it may be: 360VGA > PS3 HDMI > 360 HDMI.

What is the exact model of the Samsung?

From another thread, here's the gist:

-HDMI 1 is named PC
-Home Theatre PC "ON" (and NOT greyed out anymore)
-Xbox 360 reference levels Expanded
-some options get greyed out when correctly activated (sharpness, etc.)

See here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=988390

i joined the avsforums thinking people in the forum would want to know about issuses like this

but it seems most arnt that bothered which also supprised me



That is because most of us do not see what you posted. I've my Elite connected to two different TVs (a 30" LCD and 56" Panasonic DLP) and never noticed any PQ issues.

My 360 looks great on my DLP.

The ps3 gives a much cleaner display than the 360 on hdmi
its realy upset me i have spent alot to go hdmi on the 360

Another xbox
Hdmi AV Breakout box for the 360
hdmi auto switch box (yes i tried without that connected)

im realy supprised that there hasnt been a big kickup about this tbh
as it smacks me in the face when using hdmi on the 360

and its a step down compared to vga when its supposed to be a step up

What exactly are you using? The 360s with HDMI have an HDMI port directly on the console. Are you using one of the third-party component/VGA to HDMI converters?

A Falcon 360
The av breakout is for spdif

I use a Hdmi cable straight from the 360