Hello Everyone,
So my HOA is like any other, quite restrictive and generally stupid when it comes to being reasonable. At a maintenance committee meeting a board member let slip that they were going to remove dishes and antennas. I let him know that the HOA is on the losing side of that battle since we have town homes and FCC is on the owner's side.

Since we are having some maintenance work being done, I was asked to figure out an equitable situation for the installation of satellite dishes and antennas. I bought a Lacrosse and mounted it inside my home so people seem to think I have a clue. ;)

Seeing as I am not a jerk and want to do what is right by everyone, I need to come up with guidelines for the installation or antennas and dishes. The current guideline says that we must mount the antenna/dish on the rear of the town home roof. While that location might just work for all satellite dishes, it might not work for all antennas.

I tried contacting DirectTv and Dish Network via their web interfaces, but the responses were just canned garbage. My next step is to call the main lines directly and hopefully talk to someone with a clue. I'm looking to find out which direction the satellites need to point in and look at most town home clusters to see if any will have positioning problems.

What else should I do? I could try calling local installers but I have no idea which ones I should talk to. And to that the town home roofs in the rear are three to four stories high (some are on hills). I was told that some installers just won't go that high.

Should I consider making recommendations about the size and types of dishes/antennas or is that asking for trouble?

thanks in advance,
Amul

Start by reading OTARD (link is in my signature), so you have a reasonable idea of what is allowed by the FCC. As a homeowner - if you tried to exceed what is in OTARD - I'd tell the HOA board to take a LONG walk off a short pier (and I might not be that diplomatic about it).

So my HOA is like any other, quite restrictive and generally stupid when it comes to being reasonable. At a maintenance committee meeting a board member let slip that they were going to remove dishes and antennas. I let him know that the HOA is on the losing side of that battle since we have town homes and FCC is on the owner's side......


What else should I do? Get the FCC regs, give them to the board. Make it very clear that if they try and contradict them, someone will take them to court, and they will lose. Insist the board get a legal opinion, because you don't want to see them incur exorbitant, unnecessary legal costs.

Agree with Ken's post. The FCC regulations are very clear.
Can the HOA ban dishes and antennas? No, the homeowner can use dishes and antennas that meet the FCC regulations, as long as they are mounted in an area under the homeowner's exclusive control.
Can the HOA tell the homeowner where to place the dish? Yes, to some extent. The HOA can say that dishes should be placed in a particular location, (e.g. at the rear of the property) provided that this does not make the homeowner incur unreasonable extra cost, or interfere with the homeowner's ability to get reception. Requiring the dish to be on the roof of a four-story townhome would probably be considered unreasonable because as you say most installers will not install there.
Can the HOA make a homeowner get permission from the HOA to install a dish/antenna? No and yes. The homeowner does not need permission from the HOA to install a dish or outside antenna, that would put the HOA in conflict with the FCC. The HOA can require the homeowner to tell the HOA that he has installed a dish, or is planning to, so that the HOA can make sure the installation meets the FCC regulations plus any acceptable HOA rules like placement, but the HOA can't do anything that delays or increases the costs of the installation.

And in all these situations it is for the HOA to prove that their regulations are reasonable. A stubborn HOA, or one that fails to get legal advice before trying to set up regulations to cover this, can incur a lot of legal costs.

Again, I pretty much echo all the above comments. Make it very clear what the FCC says.

Here are some quick general rule of thumb "guidelines" to keep installations from getting ugly.

Antennas:
-If possible, an eave mount has a smaller profile than a tripod.
-Guy wires are probably never needed for a <11ft installation.
-Tape/tie cables to the antenna boom and mast.
-Keep the antenna and rotor close together (1-2ft). Anything above 3ft is getting a little excessive.
-I don't know many DIY installs I've seen where they use two 5' poles (1 above and below the rotor), where the antenna flopped back and forth, because the pole was too long and the bolts on the rotor were loose. A 10' pole cut into 8' and 2' is much better. Also, don't leave more than 1-2" of mast above the antenna (it looks ugly).
-You don't need standoffs for coax.
-Make sure the antenna is level and all elements are straightened out (a pristine, level antenna looks WAY better than one with gnarled elements pointing into the ground).

Satellite:
-If all possible, put it either on the south side of the house/south side of a roof, low enough you can't see the dish from the north side of the roof.
-Again, keep cables neat. No coils of extra wire hanging around, etc..
-Railings, plant pots, etc... are not good places to install them.

Again, I pretty much echo all the above comments. Make it very clear what the FCC says.
texasbrit (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8608731#post8608731) told me about the FCC regulations a long time back. Which came in handy when I told the HOA not do anything stupid.

So I stopped them from being stupid. Now I'm looking to have a nice set of guidelines to give home owners. I'm going for a balance to have each home owner get OTA/satellite service. The key word being balance.

For instance, does suggesting the Lacrosse or Winegard Square Shooter antennas sound reasonable? I know I didn't mind the extra cost, and most home owners would not want to see an antenna. I live in King of Prussia, PA (zip 19406) and all of our major stations are 10 miles away in Philadelphia. So no one really needs a high power antenna or rotors. An amp certainly helped reception for my TV on the ground floor, the HTPC in the loft didn't need it.

Alot of satellite dishes have been mounted badly on the roofs and stucco exterior. One home has it mounted onto the stucco. Most installations have run the coax cable down the gutters and one or two actually pierced the stucco to run the cabling inside the home. I was told by a cable installer that running coax cables down the gutters is not safe and against code in many places. Stucco issues are the reason for our maintenance committee. Would requiring a mounting block on each home with a coax feed make sense? Obviously this is an added cost for each home owner.

Has anyone ever heard of restrictions on installers preventing them from scaling 4 stories? Does it make sense for me to find local installers that go to that height or should I tell the owner who wants the dish to find the installer?

Think about this as if it were your HOA and what rules are good for everyone. I already told the board that if they didn't have a reasonable guideline they might as well give up and expect people to mount satellite dishes on their decks. That isn't cool since some decks are less than a foot apart.

mattdp, thanks for the information!
Amul

PS, did I mention I was clueless about this stuff? Aside from the OTARD, if there is something that I need to read, just point me in the direction and I'll do my home work.

People use antennas for more than just recieving OTA TV signals.

If it was MY HOA (god forbid I ever live where there is one ever again) - you are facing a hopeless task, If a homeowner wants to mount an antenna or dish(es) - I'd hand them a copy of the OTARD and say "stay within the limits set here". Because I sure would hand YOU a copy of the OTARD and ask you to point out that what I did is outside the limits spelled out within this document.

You can't require a particular antenna, and the Square Shooter or Lacrosse is not sufficient for reception of all Philadelphia market stations in King of Prussia anyway. Remember we have two VHF digitals in 2009, including the low-VHF WPVI.

You CAN insist that homeowners follow the appropriate codes, which includes grounding and mechanical safety issues; that might let you prevent mounting to stucco. If the homeowner owns the exterior wall, you can't stop them from putting holes in it for the cabling. You cannot require a homeowner to use a special mounting block if that costs more, but if the association installs such a mounting block (at the association's expense), you can require the homeowner to use it, provided full reception is possible from that location.

You should also read the FCC rules decisions. It's pretty clear that the HOA will be really limited in what it can enforce. While you may set up some aspirational guidelines, the homeowner is basically entitled to do whatever is necessary to get an acceptable signal. I don't have any of the decisions here, but I recall one where the homeowner was permitted to have something like six? separate dishes on his property. I think there is also a decision that says a $5 to $20 application fee was an excessive fee that could not be charged. Thus, trying to force someone to locate a dish or an antenna in a particular area is going to hard to do if the location costs exceed that number. I haven't looked at this in awhile, but I also think that there is a rule or decision that says the HOA can not restrict OTA antennas except as to maximum height, code and safety issues.

You can't require a particular antenna, and the Square Shooter or Lacrosse is not sufficient for reception of all Philadelphia market stations in King of Prussia anyway. Remember we have two VHF digitals in 2009, including the low-VHF WPVI.

You CAN insist that homeowners follow the appropriate codes, which includes grounding and mechanical safety issues; that might let you prevent mounting to stucco. If the homeowner owns the exterior wall, you can't stop them from putting holes in it for the cabling. You cannot require a homeowner to use a special mounting block if that costs more, but if the association installs such a mounting block (at the association's expense), you can require the homeowner to use it, provided full reception is possible from that location.

Agree with this. It is not for the HOA to get involved in what type of antenna the homeowner wants to use. Those are poor antennas on a price-performance basis anyway. My recommendation is simply to stick with the FCC rulings and city codes, the homeowner can do anything he wants so long as he meets these requirements and if the HOA gets involved beyond this they are likely to have legal issues. Similarly with location - you can specify general rules (like "at the rear of the property not visible from the street") but if the homeowner says that will be more expensive or will make it difficult to receive the signals then he can put the dish on his deck or in front of his anywhere else that he wants, and it would be up to the HOA to show that reception would be OK in the "recommended" location. Most installers won't mount to stucco (it's absolutely not recommended for the 5-lnb dishes). You can put in your rules that the homeowner should not mount a dish to the stucco; that's reasonable because it is unlikely that this will interfere with reception or increase the cost, so it's probably an FCC-acceptable restriction.
And yes, the homeowner can use more than one dish if he needs to. So anyone with DirecTV who wants international channels can install a second dish.
Your HOA can take legal advice on this if they want but the situation is very clear. The FCC is the regulatory authority on these issues and their rulings have the force of federal law.

And don't forget that existing installations are "grandfathered" so you will have to put up with them.

You can't require a particular antenna, and the Square Shooter or Lacrosse is not sufficient for reception of all Philadelphia market stations in King of Prussia anyway. Remember we have two VHF digitals in 2009, including the low-VHF WPVI.

You CAN insist that homeowners follow the appropriate codes, which includes grounding and mechanical safety issues; that might let you prevent mounting to stucco. If the homeowner owns the exterior wall, you can't stop them from putting holes in it for the cabling. You cannot require a homeowner to use a special mounting block if that costs more, but if the association installs such a mounting block (at the association's expense), you can require the homeowner to use it, provided full reception is possible from that location.

Thanks nybbler, I did not know that WPVI is operating on VHF. I just checked antennaweb for the other VHF stations. If I understand what you are saying correctly, then WPVI (ABC) which is operating at
UHF WPVI-DT 6.1 ABC PHILADELPHIA, PA 131° 9.2 64

will discontinue that broadcast and switch to
VHF WPVI-DT 6.1 ABC PHILADELPHIA, PA Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 130° 9.2 6

So after the transition, will I need an antenna that does VHF and UHF?

thanks,
Amul

Agree with this. It is not for the HOA to get involved in what type of antenna the homeowner wants to use.


Guys thanks for the help. I see what you are all saying. I'll look for the local codes regarding antenna and dish installation.

The current board is very heavy handed, and uses the lawyer quite frequently. I'll give them the FCC documents and let them know people are free to mount dishes and antennas on the deck and roof.

Again, thank you all for your insight in understanding this issue.

Amul

Hi there

Assuming that the townhome roofs and exterior walls are part of the common areas (which is most likely), then the HOA would have full control over antenna installations on those roof and walls.

From the OTARD (6th paragraph) :
The (FCC) rule does not apply to common areas that are owned by a landlord, a community association, or jointly by condominium or cooperative owners where the antenna user does not have an exclusive use area. Such common areas may include the roof or exterior wall of a multiple dwelling unit.Therefore, (HOA) restrictions on antennas installed in or on such common areas are enforceable.

Regards

For OTA, check the results of antennaweb.org and tvfool.com to see what is required. If the results indicate small to medium distance UHF or UHF/high VHF, I would think it appropriate to recommend compact antennas like the Winegard HD-1080 or Channel Master 2016, and prohibit the legacy large rooftop antennas.
The HOA could be pro-active by being helpful with solutions rather than just making prohibitions, even to the point of working with a professional installer and maybe having a single OTA antenna split out for each group of buildings instead of individual antennas for each townhouse.
As for DishNet and DirecTV, you would probably have better luck with a local installer to work out a solution that might also include a single sat dish for each building group. I know that DishNet currently requires two dishes for HD in many locations, but are working toward a single dish solution for the near future (called Eastern Arc).

For OTA, check the results of antennaweb.org and tvfool.com to see what is required. If the results indicate small to medium distance UHF or UHF/high VHF, I would think it appropriate to recommend compact antennas like the Winegard HD-1080 or Channel Master 2016, and prohibit the legacy large rooftop antennas.
The HOA could be pro-active by being helpful with solutions rather than just making prohibitions, even to the point of working with a professional installer and maybe having a single OTA antenna split out for each group of buildings instead of individual antennas for each townhouse.
As for DishNet and DirecTV, you would probably have better luck with a local installer to work out a solution that might also include a single sat dish for each building group. I know that DishNet currently requires two dishes for HD in many locations, but are working toward a single dish solution for the near future (called Eastern Arc).

skismuggs - There is absolutely no point in going down this path. You CANNOT prohibit any type of antenna, the FCC will NOT allow this. Neither can you force the homeowners to use a common antenna because an individual homeowner has the right to his own OTA antenna, with a rotor if he wants to have one. Neither can you force a homeowner to adopt a particular satellite solution, nor prevent him using two dishes for DirecTV if he wants international. The HOA needs to keep out of this issue otherwise I can guarantee legal action will be taken by a homeowner and the HOA will end up losing and paying the legal fees.

The HOA can prevent people putting a dish on common areas but the FCC rulings are quite specific - if the homeowner owns or is in sole control of the place where the dish/antenna is to be installed, then the HOA has very little control.

I don't believe it is legal action in the sense of filing suit in a local court. I think the remedy is to file a petition with the FCC including supporting documents and photographs. While you could ask for a formal hearing before the commission, I think it is mostly done on paper. I don't know if the FCC regs provide for the recovery of costs and attorney fees, but after the homeowner wins he/she may be able to sue the HOA for the costs incurred in the action, especially if the association documents provide for recovery.

As far as the size/type of antenna/dish, my reading of the regs and decisions is that signal quality has to be acceptable to the homeowner, not the association.

Again, I suggest you try to set up some aspirational guidelines and try to get residents to comply where possible. If you try and imply the "rules" are mandatory, you'll run into someone like me who will install what is needed and clearly in violation and then fight you to the death.

Amen, brother gatorman :D .

There is a county in Maryland that had an old regulation that satellite antennas had to be "behind" the house, but one customer of mine had a house with a long driveway and his front door and house were actually oriented 90 degrees differently than the houses of his neighbors, so he could put a dish right near the street and it would still be "behind" his house.

His next door neighbor got pissed and planted a 20' tree in front to it. Fortunately, this happened right around the time tha DirecTV came out, so he bought a DirecTV system for $1,000, which is what they cost back in 1994, and did not furtther confront the neighbor.

The guy eventually the sold this house and took his DirecTV with him, and his brother-in-law hired me to get the C-band dish working. He did not tell me that the tree blocking the dish was planted there to disrupt his reception, so I proceded on the assumption that it had simply grown in the way, and I moverd the mast about ten feet to the side.

The neighbor came by and let me know he was pissed. He said that I should have gotten the "installation" approved by the county. I told him that as far as I knew, whatever approval they had previously should be adequate to authorize what I was doing, because I was simply repairing a defective installation, and I doubted that whatever original installation plan had been approved identified the placement of the mast so specifically that it would not cover the new mast location.

Again, I suggest you try to set up some aspirational guidelines and try to get residents to comply where possible. If you try and imply the "rules" are mandatory, you'll run into someone like me who will install what is needed and clearly in violation and then fight you to the death.

Texasbrit,
This is the point I was trying to make. By helping homeowners with a solution acceptable to both the HOA and residents, a solution can be reached where everyone is happy. Most people have no idea what is needed and are happy for suggestions and will tend to take the easiest path if it is presented to them.

Neither can you force the homeowners to use a common antenna because an individual homeowner has the right to his own OTA antenna, with a rotor if he wants to have one.

That may not be true. The OTARD only requires that homeowners receive stations in their own DMA. So it is possible that if the association went whole-hog and put in an MATV system which provided all Philadelphia DMA stations (no rotor is required for that from King of Prussia), they could prohibit other OTA antennas, as the rule would not in any way preclude their reception of the OTA signals. But they could not prevent satellite dishes.

With townhouses, I expect an MATV system is going to be cost prohibitive in any case, however.

Assuming that the townhome roofs and exterior walls are part of the common areas (which is most likely), then the HOA would have full control over antenna installations on those roof and walls.

Most likely? Maybe, and maybe not. Here's why:

* In my townhouse community, our units are legally attached single-family homes. We own the exterior walls, roof, patio, front porch and, most importantly, the land lot on which the townhouse sits, and we co-own the "party walls" with our next-door neighbors. What you say would not be accurate here, even though most people look at our neighborhood and think, "these are 'condos'." For communities like these, I suggest reading the attached FCC decision denying an appeal by an Illinois HOA that had taken action against a unit owner's antenna installation. (The HOA lost this case badly, IMO.)

* On the other hand, one nearby cluster development has detached homes that are legally condominium units. Even though the four walls of each home are separated from all other homes, the association owns all exterior walls of the units. Your assessment is correct for this community, even though most people think "single family homes" when they look at this community.

One needs to read one's deed and condo declarations to determine the ownership issue.

That may not be true. The OTARD only requires that homeowners receive stations in their own DMA. So it is possible that if the association went whole-hog and put in an MATV system which provided all Philadelphia DMA stations (no rotor is required for that from King of Prussia), they could prohibit other OTA antennas, as the rule would not in any way preclude their reception of the OTA signals. But they could not prevent satellite dishes.

With townhouses, I expect an MATV system is going to be cost prohibitive in any case, however.


Not quite true. The OTARD covers the reception by the homeowner of "local" stations as compared with "distant" ones. "Local" stations do not have to be in the homeowner's DMA, they can also be from adjacent DMAs. A central OTA antenna system would be acceptable if it delivered a reasonable signal level for all stations deemed "local", probably defined as those stations whose licensed coverage area included the location of the association's common antenna system.

Most likely? Maybe, and maybe not. Here's why:

One needs to read one's deed and condo declarations to determine the ownership issue.

Hi there

Yes, I did assume that the OP's townhouse was condominium ownership (rather than fee simple).
But I did hedge my statements, and did not state absolutes since the OP left out that detail nor am I a real estate lawyer.

Those are two interesting examples. Condominium ownership of detached houses I understand, but fee simple ownership of attached houses seems interesting.

Regards

Hi there
Assuming that the townhome roofs and exterior walls are part of the common areas (which is most likely), then the HOA would have full control over antenna installations on those roof and walls.


So the weird thing about my HOA is that it is not a condo association, BUT a lot of the by-law wording is written like one. The documents are not clear, but the general understanding is that HOA is responsible for maintenance but does not actually own the exteriors of the town homes.

For OTA, check the results of antennaweb.org and tvfool.com to see what is required. If the results indicate small to medium distance UHF or UHF/high VHF, I would think it appropriate to recommend compact antennas like the Winegard HD-1080 or Channel Master 2016, and prohibit the legacy large rooftop antennas.

Yeah I checked antennaweb.org, thanks for tvfool.com. I checked the Lacrosse specs and they indicate that it works for channels 7-13 VHF. The only channel on VHF that falls outside that range is channel 6 and I'm hoping that I'll manage to get by. :) The Winegard antenna looks like a good model.


The HOA could be pro-active by being helpful with solutions rather than just making prohibitions, even to the point of working with a professional installer and maybe having a single OTA antenna split out for each group of buildings instead of individual antennas for each townhouse.
That is a thought. I've seen some of the responses against this and it is worth mentioning. I plan on finding a professional installer that we can recommend for use in the community. The win-win is that both the homeowner and the association know the installer's reputation.


As for DishNet and DirecTV, you would probably have better luck with a local installer to work out a solution that might also include a single sat dish for each building group. I know that DishNet currently requires two dishes for HD in many locations, but are working toward a single dish solution for the near future (called Eastern Arc).
I did speak with a DirectTv representative and he was quite helpful. I would expect at least three dishes if you want SD, HD and international, each with varying sizes. He will be putting me in touch with their local installation company.

skismuggs - There is absolutely no point in going down this path. You CANNOT prohibit any type of antenna, the FCC will NOT allow this. Neither can you force the homeowners to use a common antenna because an individual homeowner has the right to his own OTA antenna, with a rotor if he wants to have one. Neither can you force a homeowner to adopt a particular satellite solution, nor prevent him using two dishes for DirecTV if he wants international. The HOA needs to keep out of this issue otherwise I can guarantee legal action will be taken by a homeowner and the HOA will end up losing and paying the legal fees.
You are correct, that the HOA cannot mandate anything. However, people who have absolutely no knowledge about this area will appreciate the help in choosing an antenna. I intend to point out a few models that "look pretty" and include the OTARD information in the recommendations that indicate that the homeowner can do as s/he pleases within those guidelines.


The HOA can prevent people putting a dish on common areas but the FCC rulings are quite specific - if the homeowner owns or is in sole control of the place where the dish/antenna is to be installed, then the HOA has very little control.
This is what I plan on using the twist the HOA's arm. If they make antenna and dish installation a problem, I'm going to recommend that people install them on their decks. :)

And as someone already mentioned earlier, I will remind the HOA that if someone is interested in say HAM radio, it cannot block the use of that antenna either.

I would like to know if other antennas for FM, VHF radio, Ham, and CB are also protected use by the FCC.

Someone mentioned that only TV reception antennas are.

Thanks.

I would like to know if other antennas for FM, VHF radio, Ham, and CB are also protected use by the FCC. Someone mentioned that only TV reception antennas are.

Only TV antennas are included. See http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.pdf. From the pamphlet: "Antennas used for AM/FM radio, amateur("ham") radio, CB radio, Digital Audio Radio Services ("DARS"), or antennas used as part of a hub to relay signals among multiple locations are not covered by these rules."

Those are two interesting examples. Condominium ownership of detached houses I understand, but fee simple ownership of attached houses seems interesting.

We're in Colorado. Our subdivision isn't unique in this regard. Here's another head-scratcher for ya: We own surface rights on the lot, but not the mineral rights underneath it. And we have a basement. Swear this stuff was written just to keep lawyers employed!

:cool:

Best regards!

tuskentower - you may have some problems with even suggesting certain types of antenna. First, many "pretty" antennas are very poor value in terms of performance for the price. Second, with a station on VHF-lo after the transition you will need an antenna deigned to recieve VHF-lo. Neither of the antennas you mention is designed for VHF-lo coverage. To receive VHF-lo stations you need much larger antennas than those for VHF-hi and UHF. Given that the station is so close to you, you just MIGHT be lucky and get a decent signal using the "wrong" antenna but it's something you need to consider.
On the satellite side, you need to consider the requirements for both Dish and DirecTV, since you can't mandate which one people use. For DirecTV, people may need two dishes (not three), the regular "Slimline" dish that receives the main satellites (99/101/103/110/119) and the international dish, required for international channels from the 95 satellite. Some people do need a third dish to receive locals, in some cities, but that does not apply to you because the Philadelphia locals are on the 101 satellite so no third dish needed. For Dish, I don't know what's required; you will have to talk to a Dish expert.

texsabrit, sorry for the misunderstanding. I am not requiring DirectTv. People can get whatever fits their needs. Dish has not responded to my inquiries yet, that's all. I'm pretty sure there are other satellite providers. My goal was to learn what I can so that I can explain certain issues. Such as why people may have 5 dishes on the roof.

You're right about the pretty antennas. I originally wanted a DB-2, but picked the Lacrosse and crossed my fingers. I still need to do some more homework on antennas. I have been using http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html to understand my needs. I also own a silver sensor antenna with VHF bunny ears (this model I think http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Amplified-High-Definition-Antenna-Reception/dp/B0007MXZB2******pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1216221401&sr=8-2) to compare with.

Just so I am clear. I am recommending the OTARD as the requirements. I am including information to help my neighbors understand what is involved when following the OTARD. I am also suggesting possible choices of antennas which will fit our location's needs and be appealing to the eye.

Thanks to everyone for their continuing input.

Zoinks! EscapeVelocity your sigature is every antenna newb's wet dream!
EV's Best Top Rated HDTV Indoor Antenna Review Test Round-Up Guide (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779). This will help me decide if I even want to bother recommending those pretty antennas. :)

Chalk this up as one more example why the people on the AVSForum ROCK!

thanks,
Amul

texsabrit, sorry for the misunderstanding. I am not requiring DirectTv. People can get whatever fits their needs. Dish has not responded to my inquiries yet, that's all. I'm pretty sure there are other satellite providers. My goal was to learn what I can so that I can explain certain issues. Such as why people may have 5 dishes on the roof.

You're right about the pretty antennas. I originally wanted a DB-2, but picked the Lacrosse and crossed my fingers. I still need to do some more homework on antennas. I have been using http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html to understand my needs. I also own a silver sensor antenna with VHF bunny ears (this model I think http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Amplified-High-Definition-Antenna-Reception/dp/B0007MXZB2******pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1216221401&sr=8-2) to compare with.

Just so I am clear. I am recommending the OTARD as the requirements. I am including information to help my neighbors understand what is involved when following the OTARD. I am also suggesting possible choices of antennas which will fit our location's needs and be appealing to the eye.

Thanks to everyone for their continuing input.

I think I understand what you are trying to do. My point about DirecTV was that the maximum that people will need in your location is two dishes, unless they have a very strange line of sight issue where they can't see all the main satellites from a single location on their property.
The LaCrosse antenna looks nice, but it is INCREDIBLY expensive for what it is, and it is designed for UHF-only, not even VHF-hi, although like some other UHF antennas it might get close in VHF-hi stations. But probably not VHF-lo like channel 6.

You're right about the pretty antennas. I originally wanted a DB-2, but picked the Lacrosse and crossed my fingers. I still need to do some more homework on antennas. I have been using http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html to understand my needs. I also own a silver sensor antenna with VHF bunny ears (this model I think http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Amplified-High-Definition-Antenna-Reception/dp/B0007MXZB2******pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1216221401&sr=8-2) to compare with.

I heard that someone cracked open their Lacrosse and described it as DB2 like on the inside.....and it comes amped or unamped. Not bad for a "pretty" antenna.

Stucco is terrible for indoor radiowave reception, essentially steel mesh reflectors on every wall.

EDIT: PS, glad you like the guide. :)

I heard that someone cracked open their Lacrosse and described it as DB2 like on the inside.....and it comes amped or unamped. Not bad for a "pretty" antenna.

Stucco is terrible for indoor radiowave reception, essentially steel mesh reflectors on every wall.

EDIT: PS, glad you like the guide. :)


I think you just supported my point. DB2 is only $30, CM4220 is even less. The non-amplified lacrosse lists at $129 but you can get it for about $80. So essentially you are paying about $50 for a pretty cover.

Oh, I wasnt really arguing against your point. Id much prefer to get a DB2 and pick my own amplifier.