Heh. I can't knock Blu-ray as an HDM format at all. But for gaming... well, it needs to mature a bit. I also think that devs nowadays simply don't have the time/financial resources to take real advantage of what all that extra space offers.

Agreed on the HDM part, but the videogame part I was laughing at when it was it was first announced. Storage Space != better games. Never has, never will. Uncompressed audio and HD video are probably the only 2 major payoffs of having a disc with more space. Still seeing that proven out today, as a matter of fact.

Its like the PS1 with its CD based system....CD's didn't bring us anything other than lower cost, CD audio and more FMV. The games were largely the same and could have been released on cartridges if they wanted to make them that pricy.

I am actually shocked that a game like MGS4 has such an absurd installation requirement, that the game repeatedly does 8 minute installs depending on the act you are on. Its like "Are you kidding? Why isn't there an option to install the whole thing if you are willing to give up the space, isn't that one of the big selling points of the PS3? It has a hard drive and its USER UPGRADABLE if you want to add more space for precisely this kind of thing?".

Stupit, stupit beyond words IMHO.

Most of the NES library could fit inside one of today's textures. Now, the fact that developers have more space to play with does not make better games obviously (same goes for anything), but there is no doubt that more space gives developers more capabilities and freedom.

There are many games out there which have hit the size limits of a 360 DVD. That's just a fact. It's relatively early in the generation and you are already seeing it. I'd rather developers spend the time creating more game than trying to cram everything on a relatively small disc.

Plus, I didn't see anybody complain that developers were using the extra size that DVD afforded them last generation. Or even CD before that (more than just Square games used that space). Yet, for some reason, if developers say they really like the extra Blu-Ray space or want to use it they are lazy, stupid, inefficient idiots that are wasting space and time.

I think MS is actually playing this pretty well. They've raked in the hardcore gamer no problems. Now, as price is going down, and people want more out of the gimmicky Wii, in comes MS with an even better/similar system that appeals to the casual and female consumer....and its going to bring more business. Why does that bother you?

It bothers me because I have a concern that in the chase of the casual gamer, games may be dumbed down in order to make them more accessible. I would rather just have a simple dash without the clutter of simplistic, kiddie, avatars. Also, part of the appeal of the Wii to the casual gamer is the Wiimote. Without an interface like that, isn't the casual gamer going to continue buying the Wii?

..

I am actually shocked that a game like MGS4 has such an absurd installation requirement, that the game repeatedly does 8 minute installs depending on the act you are on. Its like "Are you kidding? Why isn't there an option to install the whole thing if you are willing to give up the space, isn't that one of the big selling points of the PS3? It has a hard drive and its USER UPGRADABLE if you want to add more space for precisely this kind of thing?".

Stupit, stupit beyond words IMHO.


I agree, I definitely would have liked to do all the installs at the begin and be done with it.

As for the 8 minute installs, what chapters.. I'm at the end of Act IV I think where Ghecko's keep trying to detonate and your friend is fighting vamp split screen and my installs have been 3 minutes or less for chapters. Going back to a previous chapter also means you have to re-load it again as I went back to play a few earlier levels that I really enjoyed, then of course if I load up my current spot it has to load again.. So a 1 time install to avoid that would have been much better.

Are the 8 minute installs after the part I'm at?


--
Great post and dead on number1laing.

after watching the MS conference, and now watching the nintendo conference, i think it would be beneficial if all the companies had US spokespersons for the NA region.

i'm sure this guys english is rather good, but its really hard to understand.... same with a couple guys yesterday in the MS conference.

My steam folder on my pc is less then 9 Gb, I don't think dvd9 is that much of a limitation. I am interested in a few things. I am impressed that they have exclusives and have gotten some former sony exclusives. I have both systems, so it doesn't effect me much. I just play games.

Guys I haven't installed my copy of MGS4 yet, if its not an 8 minute install but a 3 minute install then I'm just totally wrong, and really don't mean to be. Still..even a 3+ load is kind of silly when you have a big HD at your disposal.

I thought I read 8 minute installs over on the MGS4 thread I thought, so I figured that was how long it took.

man, these wii guys are funny.

they're talking about all their software sales.... when their biggest software sale is a hardware sale, they're just manipulating the numbers.

Its pretty funny....this is a really silly presentation. They're basically telling us all the really lame games due out are PART2 or PART3 of some existing property.

Their big "mature game" is a light-gun game that two people can play at once. Wow, you've turned Call of Duty into Lethal Enforcers.

That snowboarding game was cute, until you realize that if she wasn't standing on the wiifit board, the game would probably be playing exactly the same :D

But seriously....why do all the presenters sound like Captain Kirk?

"WE CAN NOW......ANNOUNCE......A
GREAT....NEW....PROPERTY......RAVING...RABBIDS.............. ....TWO!"

oh my god..Wii Sports 2. Seriously, hang me now.

Guys I haven't installed my copy of MGS4 yet, if its not an 8 minute install but a 3 minute install then I'm just totally wrong, and really don't mean to be. Still..even a 3+ load is kind of silly when you have a big HD at your disposal.

I thought I read 8 minute installs over on the MGS4 thread I thought, so I figured that was how long it took.

Ok, I was wondering why there be a significant change in a later level that would require such a drastically bigger install. Act II is a pretty massive environment with quite a bit of variety.

Its pretty funny....this is a really silly presentation. They're basically telling us all the really lame games due out are PART2 or PART3 of some existing property.

Their big "mature game" is a light-gun game that two people can play at once. Wow, you've turned Call of Duty into Lethal Enforcers.

That snowboarding game was cute, until you realize that if she wasn't standing on the wiifit board, the game would probably be playing exactly the same :D

But seriously....why do all the presenters sound like Captain Kirk?

"WE CAN NOW......ANNOUNCE......A
GREAT....NEW....PROPERTY......RAVING...RABBIDS.............. ....TWO!"

oh my god..Wii Sports 2. Seriously, hang me now.


Wonder if the ol Power Pad trick will make a comeback :)

Most of the NES library could fit inside one of today's textures. Now, the fact that developers have more space to play with does not make better games obviously (same goes for anything), but there is no doubt that more space gives developers more capabilities and freedom.

There are many games out there which have hit the size limits of a 360 DVD. That's just a fact. It's relatively early in the generation and you are already seeing it. I'd rather developers spend the time creating more game than trying to cram everything on a relatively small disc.

Plus, I didn't see anybody complain that developers were using the extra size that DVD afforded them last generation. Or even CD before that (more than just Square games used that space). Yet, for some reason, if developers say they really like the extra Blu-Ray space or want to use it they are lazy, stupid, inefficient idiots that are wasting space and time.
I don't disagree with this at all. I just disagree with the notion that DVD9 is a limitation when compared to Blu-ray (I know you were not implying that).

So far this gen, Blu-ray as a gaming medium has yet to really prove it's worth.

Hardware can't support some of the luxuries larger disc size offers (larger textures) and time/money contraints hinder other luxuries. Sports games would benefit GREATLY from Blu-ray, but the dev cycles on sports titles are such a small window, devs wouldn't be able to add the extra content in a timely manner.

I think next gen will be the point where Blu-ray (or mandatory HDD installs ala PC) is NEEDED to provide a next gen experience. This gen, it's just nice to be there if PS3 devs want to use it.

I actually think DVD is a limitation Tenkaipalm, but I also agree when you say that it might not be until next generation that we really start seeing developers take advantage of that. Keep in mind part of the reason for that is the fact that 360 is on DVD and its a popular system so games are designed around it.

Ok, the music, drums, etc on the Wii looks pretty freaking cool.. Finally something new for my Wii :D

wow, this must be really embarrassing with such a phallic object, standing on stage in front of a live audience and "blowing" into your "saxophone"

how is this more engaged? people make fun of rockband/gh for playing fake instruments, but now the wii is resorting to playing air drums? and blowing an invisible saxophone while making MIDI music? come on.

i really wanted some good news from this... i haven't used my wii in like a year... i want something exciting, wheres the step up from metroid? no big finale? no big news? nothing!?

Ok, the music, drums, etc on the Wii looks pretty freaking cool.. Finally something new for my Wii :D

it looked interesting, but I really got no idea how it works :-/ Is there button pushing needed on the drums?

Can't wait to see Sony. I swear, I will be rollin' if they don't show much to get excited about....again.:p Killzone 2!-which looks nothin' like the trailer from 2005, woo-hoo!:p

wow, this must be really embarrassing with such a phallic object, standing on stage in front of a live audience and "blowing" into your "saxophone"

how is this more engaged? people make fun of rockband/gh for playing fake instruments, but now the wii is resorting to playing air drums? and blowing an invisible saxophone while making MIDI music? come on.

i really wanted some good news from this... i haven't used my wii in like a year... i want something exciting, wheres the step up from metroid? no big finale? no big news? nothing!?

I have to agree so far it has been a dissappointing E3 on the software front with a lack of new title announcements.... No new Zelda, Mario, Kid Icarus, Metroid (non Prime style but a sequel to Super Metroid please!!!!) I definitely want to see how Star Wars turns out..

I'm not typically big on the music games (guitar hero is ok but I don't like rhythm games and this sounds like it isn't limited to that which is why I like the idea) but I thought that game looks cool to have all 4 people playing stuff. Of course it is all in how it is implemented and I'm only reading the text and still pics. Of course I may just be starved for a Wii game as well, lol

it looked interesting, but I really got no idea how it works :-/ Is there button pushing needed on the drums?

I just read the text at IGN so I'm not really 100% sure.. I was thinking two wiimotes like drum sticks?

Nintendo is obviously ultra casual now but man sometimes it takes a reminder to see how far they are taking that. They debut a fairly cool 1:1 mapping peripheral, which lets be real, your grandma doesn't care about, and what do they debut it with? Fricking Wii Sports 2! So you can accurately mimic turning on a jetski and throwing a frisbee to your fake dog!

Animal Crossing is a big plus for me, but everything else was just pitiful. Wii Music is just the Wii version of the DS game "Daigasso! Band Brothers DX". Look it up - quite frankly I'd prefer that localized than Wii Music.

Metroid (non Prime style but a sequel to Super Metroid please!!!!)

You got that game, it was called Metroid Fusion and came out in 2002.

Just air drums....at some point the "pad" gets hit...you could see that guy was struggling with it a bit, when to pull your arm back up after you think you've "hit" the pad.

But this was an embarassing presentation......it was an hour of marketing people trying to hype you up to stuff you've already seen 2 or 3 times before. What they did show...DS titles on the Wii and more of teh same type of mini-game games. Call of Duty was a light-gun game that basically looked just like the last Medal of Honor light-gun game.

What they didn't show: not one racing, FPS, or 3rd person action/adventure type game.

Embarassing.

I agree, I definitely would have liked to do all the installs at the begin and be done with it.

As for the 8 minute installs, what chapters.. I'm at the end of Act IV I think where Ghecko's keep trying to detonate and your friend is fighting vamp split screen and my installs have been 3 minutes or less for chapters. Going back to a previous chapter also means you have to re-load it again as I went back to play a few earlier levels that I really enjoyed, then of course if I load up my current spot it has to load again.. So a 1 time install to avoid that would have been much better.

Are the 8 minute installs after the part I'm at?


--
Great post and dead on number1laing.

No, there are no 8 minute installs....only the initial install. The act V install is even shorter than the rest. I think people exaggerate way too much the time/inconvenience of the MGS4 installs. Its not a big deal at all. With that said, I still would prefer to have no installs on 360 games.

Ya know, for some odd reason, I actually find playing air guitar kind of neat. Especially with me living with roommates who I'd prefer not to disturb with Rock Band-not that there's room in my room for it anyway. And I actually like the Wii gun design for play with COD5. I don't know....

No, there are no 8 minute installs....only the initial install. The act V install is even shorter than the rest. I think people exaggerate way too much the time/inconvenience of the MGS4 installs. Its not a big deal at all. With that said, I still would prefer to have no installs on 360 games.
Kinda like how people exaggerate the time/inconvenience of swapping discs. I think it annoys people (well, it annoys me) because having the data of 3-4 discs on a single one was supposed to eliminate the "inconvenience" of swapping discs. It has not. So, people pick on it some. It's no big deal, people exaggerate EVERY little issue with the 360/PS3.

I have to agree so far it has been a dissappointing E3 on the software front with a lack of new title announcements.... No new Zelda, Mario, Kid Icarus, Metroid (non Prime style but a sequel to Super Metroid please!!!!) I definitely want to see how Star Wars turns out..

I'm not typically big on the music games (guitar hero is ok but I don't like rhythm games and this sounds like it isn't limited to that which is why I like the idea) but I thought that game looks cool to have all 4 people playing stuff. Of course it is all in how it is implemented and I'm only reading the text and still pics. Of course I may just be starved for a Wii game as well, lol



I just read the text at IGN so I'm not really 100% sure.. I was thinking two wiimotes like drum sticks?


Just wondering how hard it is to hit the separate drums with an air drum set. Looks neat though, less clutter than Rock Band :)

Shoudln't we be limiting the discussion to Xbox stuff here in the Xbox topic area? If I want to read about Wii and PS3 stuff at E3 I can go to their respective topic areas on AVS.

It bothers me because I have a concern that in the chase of the casual gamer, games may be dumbed down in order to make them more accessible. I would rather just have a simple dash without the clutter of simplistic, kiddie, avatars. Also, part of the appeal of the Wii to the casual gamer is the Wiimote. Without an interface like that, isn't the casual gamer going to continue buying the Wii?

Dude you are forgetting one major point: Money talks.. Bullshyt runs a marathon..

How many copies did GTA4, Halo3, Bioshock, COD4, and alot of other titles sell.. I think the 360 has 33 different titles that have sold atleast 1 million copies..

Have no fear my friend.. as long as millions of people continue paying $60 a pop for "hardcore" games. Nothing will be dumbed down.

Im sure they know they cant please everyone.. all of the time.. but I believe most people will be happy with the 'new' interface even if it is a bit kiddie. In the overall scheme of what the 360 can do (games, media, entertainment, movies, windows networking).. the 'new' interface seems made to appeal to the whole family.. not jus the hardcore gamer..

MS seems like their interested in getting alot of wives, girlfriends, daughters, aunts, uncles, and grandparents interested in what the 360 has to offer. How cool is it seeing your wife or girlfriend using you 360.. when you are not. They are looking to be the center of the digital living room.

I don't want my girlfriend using the Xbox, she should be in the kitchen making me sandwiches!

Shoudln't we be limiting the discussion to Xbox stuff here in the Xbox topic area? If I want to read about Wii and PS3 stuff at E3 I can go to their respective topic areas on AVS.

there is a huge influence over the future of the xbox, completely dependent on what the other companies are doing ... the MS bit is over, and if you've read the thread, you can be done here if you choose.

I don't want my girlfriend using the Xbox, she should be in the kitchen making me sandwiches!

Well now her Avatar will be making you sandwhiches ; ) My wife now plays Guitar Hero 3 more than she cooks for me. Fair enough though, Im the one who loves eating, so I dont mind cooking it!

I don't want my girlfriend using the Xbox, she should be in the kitchen making me sandwiches!


WINN@R!!!!!!!!!eleventy!

I don't want my girlfriend using the Xbox, she should be in the kitchen making me sandwiches!

If she reads that, likely she won't be the gf for long...:D

Just took (yet) another look at the "experience" video and it hit me; the new interface is optimized for widescreen; it uses all the area. The blades were optimized for 4x3 displays...

Well now her Avatar will be making you sandwhiches ; ) My wife now plays Guitar Hero 3 more than she cooks for me. Fair enough though, Im the one who loves eating, so I dont mind cooking it!

Married guys know whats up. I "love" a lot of the new features, because I know my wife will "like" them.

She plays very little, because there isn't a whole lot out that she gets into.

When I was playing the new features vid on the 360, she actually looked up from the laptop without me saying "Check this out", or letting out an "ooh" or "aah". She heard Avatars and "Live Prime" and was like "That looks cool".

When I mentioned Deal or No Deal, she became very excited. :D

Just took (yet) another look at the "experience" video and it hit me; the new interface is optimized for widescreen; it uses all the area. The blades were optimized for 4x3 displays...

I never understood why they designed it like that in the first place.

I missed this; I agree, fantastic feature.

I wonder if it'll wake the Xbox via LAN. I wouldn't want to leave it on all the time.

I don't particularly care for what I've seen of the new UI or the avatars, but as long as it retains current functionality I'll be fine with it. I'm skeptical though. I haven't had very good success using MCE (painfully slow and hard to use the couple times I've tried it). Also, there's still some issues with the current UI that make me wonder why it takes so long (loading gamerpics when you go to change yours). Are we going to have to go through several more rounds of dashboard updates now to optimize everything? If they were not 6 months (or longer) apart it might not be so painful.

The thing I like about the dashboard now is I can do what I want to quickly. If I want to see who's on I go into my friends list and see who's on and what they're playing. It's not clear to me that you can get all that info in one glance in the new UI. Also, when I'm hyped for the new Dark Knight movie I can go download the gamerpics, choose one for my current pic and I'm WB shill just like that. Can I still do that in the new UI, or do I have to go customize my avatar to give him pointy bat ears, a mask, black clothes and a cape. I gave up dressing dolls a long time ago (but I would probably still do it to show my support for Batman).

if you're worried at all, remember, you hit the guide button and the old blade interface pops right up.

I couldn't watch the Sony presentation today live, but I read the gizmodo coverage via the live blog. Sounded very meh with the exception being the improved video download services (especially since Sony tv/movies has some great features). I think Sony has a lot of vaporware that we need to see more to see how good it is (i.e. HOME).

I'm not a kiddie game and motion control guy so the Nintendo live blog didn't interest me at all. As a non-motion gamer there was nothing for me at all.

All in all, Msoft beat them all bad. Which is good, I love competition and I hope Sony now feels the need to come back big time.

No, there are no 8 minute installs....only the initial install. The act V install is even shorter than the rest. I think people exaggerate way too much the time/inconvenience of the MGS4 installs. Its not a big deal at all. With that said, I still would prefer to have no installs on 360 games.

It's not that bad but MGS4 is one of them acceptable clusterf*cks in my book and here's why... My BD drive on my 40gb died on me deep into Act 2. Sent the PS3 in for repair, it came back and 1st I installed all saved game data one by one (no grouping?) followed by initial 8 min install, followed by 10 min of play and waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much story, followed by 2-3 minute Act 3 install, more story, then game play. Granted my incident is different since I was already head into the game but mandatory installs in my book are dumb. I would much rather have the option especially since I use my HDD space for my own media. But it is what it is and I just accept it.

Back on topic. Anyone know if the Fall Update will be the major overhaul for 360's interface? and any time frame for it?

I thought yesterday they said the interface update was this fall, but didn't hear any specific dates. I think it'll be a good bet it happens plenty of time before the Xmas rush as they don't want a repeat of Live issues during the holiday. I would think you need/want 1-2 months to work out kinks before December.

All in all, Msoft beat them all bad. Which is good, I love competition and I hope Sony now feels the need to come back big time.

THIS WAS their chance to come back big time, after last years poor showing. I'm convinced that Sony just doesn't have it this generation. Remember when Microsoft was set to bring out Marvel Universe Online in competition with Sony and DC Universe? More people like Marvel over DC. Bet more people like Gears over Resistence. Sony seems to just be on the opposite end of the spectrum, lagging behind all the time. They don't quite seem to be hardcore enough. Microsoft is known for action and have the new-gen coolness factor with their games. Wii is the mass appeal option, for casual gamers. PS has no identity really. You lose your big exclusives and episodic content? What are you doin'?! As it's been said many times before, they seem arrogant, and just don't know what gamers want these days, and don't seem to care. Well, they showed that same arrogance today, seeming oblivious to the fact that they showed nothing really worthwhile, or better than Microsoft. Everyone was hoping the conversation wouldn't turn into Blue-Ray this and Blue-Ray that, and what happens?!! That's the first thing he talks about!! I'm no expert, but Sony really seems clueless, IMO, especially about videogames. So, Microsoft will snatch a few of their and Nintendo's ideas and use them even better. Microsoft is smart as hell! This generation-it's a wrap.

THIS WAS their chance to come back big time, after last years poor showing. I'm convinced that Sony just doesn't have it this generation. Remember when Microsoft was set to bring out Marvel Universe Online in competition with Sony and DC Universe? More people like Marvel over DC. Bet more people like Gears over Resistence. Sony seems to just be on the opposite end of the spectrum, lagging behind all the time. They don't quite seem to be hardcore enough. Microsoft is known for action and have the new-gen coolness factor with their games. Wii is the mass appeal option, for casual gamers. PS has no identity really. You lose your big exclusives and episodic content? What are you doin'?! As it's been said many times before, they seem arrogant, and just don't know what gamers want these days, and don't seem to care. Well, they showed that same arrogance today, seeming oblivious to the fact that they showed nothing really worthwhile, or better than Microsoft. Everyone was hoping the conversation wouldn't turn into Blue-Ray this and Blue-Ray that, and what happens?!! That's the first thing he talks about!! I'm no expert, but Sony really seems clueless, IMO, especially about videogames. So, Microsoft will snatch a few of their and Nintendo's ideas and use them even better. Microsoft is smart as hell! This generation-it's a wrap.

I think sony intends on out alsting the 360 and hoping they can discourage gamers against spending money on the next xbox. Truthfully yes sony is pretty arrogan. jack was dead set on knocking MS several times in the sopny confrence and MS didn't even mention Sony once.

I think sony intends on out alsting the 360 and hoping they can discourage gamers against spending money on the next xbox. Truthfully yes sony is pretty arrogan. jack was dead set on knocking MS several times in the sopny confrence and MS didn't even mention Sony once.

They did mention Sony. I recall once in the statistics page showing how many more consoles they sold over the PS3

I think sony intends on out alsting the 360 and hoping they can discourage gamers against spending money on the next xbox. Truthfully yes sony is pretty arrogan. jack was dead set on knocking MS several times in the sopny confrence and MS didn't even mention Sony once.

From what I hear/read MSoft has no plans to replace the 360 anytime soon. Since the console is profitable now they are going to milk it for all its worth. I think Sony attempting to outlast the current 360 is a big mistake. I think we have learned something very interesting this go-round of the console wars. And that is creating something utterly new and interesting (the Wii) can work wonders. But if you don't do that, then software will trump hardware any time. And software will differentiate Msoft and Sony this round, with Msoft winning handily. When all is said and done the PS3 will be the best selling BR player and thats it.

I think sony intends on out alsting the 360 and hoping they can discourage gamers against spending money on the next xbox. Truthfully yes sony is pretty arrogan. jack was dead set on knocking MS several times in the sopny confrence and MS didn't even mention Sony once.

Jacks digs at M$ were pretty funny, considering he was up there pretending that his audience was really interested in Movie Downloads than they were about upcoming game announcements. "Oh yeah you can download SD movies and share them to a PSP!"

Gee..haven't been doing THAT for 4 years....meanwhile they seem to announce that the 40gig is history and an 80 gig "with the features of the 40 gig"..aka no dual shock and no B/C...is coming soon at the $399 pricepoint..and then talk about how you can now rent movies and video on demand. Whoopie!

Games? Oh yeah we got a few of those too...and they're gonna be awesome..here's 10 seconds of each one! Did you see that? Awesome...!

Honsetly I dont think Sony can do any more than they are already doing to discourage more gamers from not buying the next *PLAYSTATION*.

Especially with his long intro and history lesson from PS1 and PS2 of "Look, it takes years for really good games to appear on our systems!" he may as well have been saying "For Playstation 4, wait a few years and we might start living up to our own hype!".

They could have shown games, lots of games...but they didn't. Gotta call it a nice presentation, but message-wise? Epic Fail.

THIS WAS their chance to come back big time, after last years poor showing. I'm convinced that Sony just doesn't have it this generation. Remember when Microsoft was set to bring out Marvel Universe Online in competition with Sony and DC Universe? More people like Marvel over DC. Bet more people like Gears over Resistence. Sony seems to just be on the opposite end of the spectrum, lagging behind all the time. They don't quite seem to be hardcore enough. Microsoft is known for action and have the new-gen coolness factor with their games. Wii is the mass appeal option, for casual gamers. PS has no identity really. You lose your big exclusives and episodic content? What are you doin'?! As it's been said many times before, they seem arrogant, and just don't know what gamers want these days, and don't seem to care. Well, they showed that same arrogance today, seeming oblivious to the fact that they showed nothing really worthwhile, or better than Microsoft. Everyone was hoping the conversation wouldn't turn into Blue-Ray this and Blue-Ray that, and what happens?!! That's the first thing he talks about!! I'm no expert, but Sony really seems clueless, IMO, especially about videogames. So, Microsoft will snatch a few of their and Nintendo's ideas and use them even better. Microsoft is smart as hell! This generation-it's a wrap.

Great post:) That pretty much sums it up, at least for me.....

I think that for the most part we here on AVS are a skewed population of gamers. After watching the Xbox conference yesterday, I think that their strategy is excelllent. There are only so many 'hard core' gamers, and likely most of them have either a Xbox or PS3 already. Trying to get people to switch camps is not worth it as the numbers are low. The best market is the Wii market. 'Everyone' has one or wants one. Most of these people are casula gamers, and non-gamers and are not intimidated by the system.

An example: We have several friends who all have children, and their WIVES insisted that they all get Wii's. I told them to get either the PS3 or Xbox, but they could not justify it because their wives would not allow it. Thus their game library included Wii Sports amd GH III (They all bought it for the Wii). They all love playing GH III, and would play more 'hard core' games, but have a system that is not designed for it. We had some of them over and played 'Scene It' and it was an instant hit. A lot of the wives at the end wanted to get the game for the Wii, and after I mentioned it was on Xbox only, they were tempted (buy 1 game was not justification) to get an Xbox, just to play Scene it.

With Scene It 2, Movie making game, Lipps, and and many of the games shows that will be on Xbox live, all of a sudden you will open the market dramtically. The wives will get to play with teh 'family', and on the side the husbands will get Gears of War 2 etc to play. Then at Christmas time, they will need new games for junior and Viva Pinata, Banjoo Kazooie and others will be instant hits.

For those wondering on the responsiveness of the new UI and how they re-implemented the blades as the guide menu, Gametrailers.com has a hands-on video.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36411.html

Looks snappy.
And the down-sized blades look nice.

.. 40gig is history and an 80 gig "with the features of the 40 gig"..aka no dual shock and no B/C...is coming soon at the $399 pricepoint..and then talk about how you can now rent movies and video on demand. Whoopie!
..

.

HeadRusch, you might want to check on that "no dual shock" part ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115375&d=1216161089

I think sony intends on out alsting the 360 and hoping they can discourage gamers against spending money on the next xbox. Truthfully yes sony is pretty arrogan. jack was dead set on knocking MS several times in the sopny confrence and MS didn't even mention Sony once.

You're describing the exact same FUD tactics they've been using for the last 18 months. They haven't exactly worked wonders so far and by now its clear MS is not going to fade away. If anything, their story gets stronger by the day.
So far, MS won XMAS 05 by default.
They won XMAS 06 on the strength of Gears and Sony's poor launch.
They won XMAS 07 on the strength of Halo/BioShock/Mass Effect, etc.
And, if we judge by the relative strengths of the E3 presentations, MS is in the driver's seat for XMAS 08 *without* a freaking price cut!
Absurd.

Sony's E3 was reportedly very lean.
MS simply took all the wind out of their sails by going first.
Even the biased guy at CNET (he predicted 2008 would be Sony's year) was clearly disappointed.
Where MS came out with three cannons: 360 V2.0 update, Netflix alliance, and FF13, plus the barrage of 3rd party cool games, Sony had popguns: Little Big Planet, resistance, and a promise of (someday) God of War III. No mention of even a year for GoW3, no dating of FFXIII. Not much new there.

They did show the same old videos of avatars cavorting in a mall for Home (no date for the beta, much less the release) and they did jack up the HDD to 80GB for the same $399 so the detente on pricing continues.

And, in another "me-too" announcement, they announced movies for rent at $2.99 to $5.99.

Those guys must really not have anything left to fight with.
(I'd heard the Sony board has them on a tight budget).
Not exactly a good thing for the industry...

Most odd was the bad-mouthing of DLC expansions.
Sounded very sour grapes.
(Plus, it really drove home that the GTA4 and Fallout DLC is truly exclusive to 360.)

Most quotable line was about how PS3 drove BD to victory and now it was BluRay's turn to return the favor. Sony really and truly does see PS3 as a bluray player that plays games!

Easy to see why MS is targeting Nintendo; they have lapped Sony and see little challenge from them. May not be good for us, but it certainly helps MS.

Maybe *now* the MS board of directors will let them cut prices...
<sigh>

I did not know about the Fallout 3 DLC deal,thanks for the tip :)

Don't thank me yet; it might be dogmeat armor. ;)

I am watching the G4TV E3 Day 1 show. Pretty much every muliplatform game demostrated so far is a 360 version. I am watching them demo Forces Unleased which I thought mid development it moved to being the lead version.
Actually just about any vid or show like X-play shows the 360 version.

Bungie: E3 game announcement pulled by publisher (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/15/bungie-e3-game-announcement-pulled-by-publisher/)

After weeks of speculation regarding their new project, Bungie just updated their site with the sobering news that plans to announce the game at E3 "were just changed by [its] publisher." We can only assume that that publisher is none other than Microsoft Game Studios; if so, it's certainly not a promising sign for the newly freed Bungie's publishing relationship with former parent company Microsoft.

We've put requests into Bungie and Microsoft. Read Bungie pres Harold Ryan's message after the break. (Note there's no mention of the publisher; looks like they want to keep it clean).

From: Harold Ryan
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 7:00 PM
Subject: E3 Announce

For the last several months, we've been building toward a reveal of something exciting that Bungie is working on. We were looking forward to sharing that with our fan community during the week of E3. However, those plans were just changed by our publisher.

We realize that many of our fans are disappointed by this turn of events; members of the Bungie team share that disappointment.

When the right time comes, we look forward to sharing this exciting announcement with you. Until then, we appreciate your continued support and patience.

Harold Ryan
President
Bungie LLC

i guess microsoft didnt want them to steal their thunder

i guess microsoft didnt want them to steal their thunder

But Microsoft is the publisher.

But Microsoft is the publisher.

i know.. but they dont own bungie anymore

doesnt matter... you can develop games all day, but you still need someone to publish them :)

and if a certain IP is involved, then MS still has rights as the publisher, even though they dont own bungie.

i know.. but they dont own bungie anymore

If they are are publishing the game.. yes they do.. Atleast in this particular situation.. the own the rights to what information is released about the game, the price and the sales date.

Bungie is simply the developer, its their job to make the game and hand it over to the publisher for distribution.

Dark Void looks cool!

i guess microsoft didnt want them to steal their thunder

But Microsoft is the publisher.

Classic :)

I call BS on all of this Bungie/MS stuff. Bungie was obviously aware that Microsoft had to bless the decision to reveal a new game. I find it hard to believe the lines of communication were that closed. Regardless, if it really did so happen that Bungie did this all on their own and was planning to reveal a game, I can't blame MS for shutting it down and doing it at a time they choose instead. This year's show is the first I remember where MS actually focused on whats coming in the near term. Its one of the reasons their show was so much better than Sony's.

I call BS on all of this Bungie/MS stuff. Bungie was obviously aware that Microsoft had to bless the decision to reveal a new game. I find it hard to believe the lines of communication were that closed. Regardless, if it really did so happen that Bungie did this all on their own and was planning to reveal a game, I can't blame MS for shutting it down and doing it at a time they choose instead. This year's show is the first I remember where MS actually focused on whats coming in the near term. Its one of the reasons their show was so much better than Sony's.

well last year it was the same story. MS showed a bunch of great titles coming out that fall and sony showed a bunch of stuff that was coming out....eventually.

I wonder if it was too far off. MS likes to show games that are about to be published. Why hype a game that is a year or more away? I wonder if it is a rts type game. I think halo was originally intended to be a rts.

I wonder if it was too far off. MS likes to show games that are about to be published. Why hype a game that is a year or more away? I wonder if it is a rts type game. I think halo was originally intended to be a rts.

Isn't that what Halo Wars is?

I can only imagine that Bungie's wondering why it even bothered becoming "independent." Sounds like it was all for naught if MS still can dictate when and what Bungie can announce.

Based on the developer's note, it was a decision Bungie didn't agree with.

I can only imagine that Bungie's wondering why it even bothered becoming "independent." Sounds like it was all for naught if MS still can dictate when and what Bungie can announce.

Based on the developer's note, it was a decision Bungie didn't agree with.

They're still publishing it, of course they can dictate when its announced.

It is strange, Bungie makes this big fuss about wanting to be independent because they are sick of Microsoft making them do nothing but Halo games, so they become independent and end up... making a Halo game. For Microsoft.

It is strange, Bungie makes this big fuss about wanting to be independent because they are sick of Microsoft making them do nothing but Halo games, so they become independent and end up... making a Halo game. For Microsoft.


I am sure the reality of paying their own way sen them right back to Halo. After all they did not sell themselves to MS due to being flush with cash. And developing games today is far more expensive than when Bungie last had to foot the bill.

I own an 360, PS3 and my girlfriend has a Wii...so I am not really biased toward any one system...

But IMO Microsoft came out the "winner" in this years E3...mostly because they got to go first I think. The got to show Fallout 3 and RE5 first.


I mean the live demo of Resistence 2 would have been much more impressive if it had not come on the heals of Gears 2...Frankly, I think the visuals looks better in GW2 than R2 and both demos showed a BIG BADDIE.

I could care less about FF...and have for over a decade now ...but that one announcement pretty much kicked PS3 where it hurts.

I am still up in the air about the whole new facelift for XBL. One of things Ive liked about XBL is its simple and easy to use...But I am looking forward to being able to put games on the HDD. I hope I can skip/avoid the whole avatar thing entirely.

The Sony presentation was the best in terms of style but they just didnt show anything that made you go WOW....course in and of itself neither did MS...its just they got to go first so they defined what WOW equals this year.

Nintendo....easily the lamest and most disappointing presentation of them all. Its one thing to appeal to the casual/families its another to be simply silly. That whole demo of Wii Music was just that silly. Throwing a virtual frisbee for a vitual dog? Ok, the sword fighting on the beach looked kinda fun and cool. No Mario related announcements, No Zelda, No Metroid, blah blah...an E3 w/o any mention of your biggest IPs seems kinda odd to me.

The impression I got from Nintendo is one of arrogance...having been involved in the video game hobby now for several "generations"...that type of arrogance is what has gotten them and others in trouble in the past...just my 2cents.

My XBOX 360 is happy...My PS3 is sad...My girlfriends Wii is ...cute. =P

I can only imagine that Bungie's wondering why it even bothered becoming "independent." Sounds like it was all for naught if MS still can dictate when and what Bungie can announce.

Based on the developer's note, it was a decision Bungie didn't agree with.

I would ahve loved to have been a fly on the wall during the call where they found out they were not going to be able to make the announcement.

Nobody feels sorry for Bungie.. they've made millions and set sales records over and over thanks to Halo/MS.

When they finally cut loose.. where did they come running back to for that big paycheck?? No matter how independent you may want to be.. or think you are?? Money still talks and bullshyt still runs a marathon.

Take MS and Halo away from Bungie.. and what have they really accomplished elsewhere thats outstanding. Honestly considering the size of their staff would they even be able to maintain their current level of operations.. or would they have to shrink down to the small house dev studio they were before.

They know what hand feeds them..

Nobody feels sorry for Bungie.. they've made millions and set sales records over and over thanks to Halo/MS.

Take MS and Halo away from Bungie.. and what have they really accomplished elsewhere thats outstanding.

Uh, you said it above....Marathon :) One of the best first person shooters of the Doom age, actually. Well ok it kinda sucked but ify ou had a Mac you loved it.
But yeah, its not surprising that they would go back to make another (yawn) Halo game. thing is...halos played out...time to move on.

Nobody feels sorry for Bungie.. they've made millions and set sales records over and over thanks to Halo/MS.

When they finally cut loose.. where did they come running back to for that big paycheck?? No matter how independent you may want to be.. or think you are?? Money still talks and bullshyt still runs a marathon.

Take MS and Halo away from Bungie.. and what have they really accomplished elsewhere thats outstanding. Honestly considering the size of their staff would they even be able to maintain their current level of operations.. or would they have to shrink down to the small house dev studio they were before.

They know what hand feeds them..


In all fairness, Bungie is a great developer. They developed Myth I/II, and Marathon. IMO, they've come off a bit childish in this whole E3 affair though. It's not good business to air dirty laundry.

Isn't there a Microsoft conference later this year specifically for the Xbox, or was that earlier in the year? I seem to remember when they announced Gears of War they had a short trailer at E3 and then lots of gameplay/info later in the year before its release. Could that be the plan for Bungie's game, or is it all Gears 2 until the end of November.

Looking forward to messing with the new dashboard. Sounds like a gimmick, but I'm sure I'll spend more time then necessary created my own...avatar. Is there an official 'name' for them yet? The Xii? Boxiis?

I own an 360, PS3 and my girlfriend has a Wii...so I am not really biased toward any one system...

But IMO Microsoft came out the "winner" in this years E3...mostly because they got to go first I think. The got to show Fallout 3 and RE5 first.


I mean the live demo of Resistence 2 would have been much more impressive if it had not come on the heals of Gears 2...Frankly, I think the visuals looks better in GW2 than R2 and both demos showed a BIG BADDIE.

I could care less about FF...and have for over a decade now ...but that one announcement pretty much kicked PS3 where it hurts.

I am still up in the air about the whole new facelift for XBL. One of things Ive liked about XBL is its simple and easy to use...But I am looking forward to being able to put games on the HDD. I hope I can skip/avoid the whole avatar thing entirely.

The Sony presentation was the best in terms of style but they just didnt show anything that made you go WOW....course in and of itself neither did MS...its just they got to go first so they defined what WOW equals this year.

Nintendo....easily the lamest and most disappointing presentation of them all. Its one thing to appeal to the casual/families its another to be simply silly. That whole demo of Wii Music was just that silly. Throwing a virtual frisbee for a vitual dog? Ok, the sword fighting on the beach looked kinda fun and cool. No Mario related announcements, No Zelda, No Metroid, blah blah...an E3 w/o any mention of your biggest IPs seems kinda odd to me.

The impression I got from Nintendo is one of arrogance...having been involved in the video game hobby now for several "generations"...that type of arrogance is what has gotten them and others in trouble in the past...just my 2cents.

My XBOX 360 is happy...My PS3 is sad...My girlfriends Wii is ...cute. =P

i own all three as well, and agree with everything you said. nintendo was just horrible. that annoying woman was enough to ruin it for me, but the fact that they released nothing of interest, just another wii sports, pathetic.

But, my 360 is sick .although i love it when it works.. my ps is just fine although a little bored, and my wii is collecting dust...kinda lke my N64 did years back.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/07/halo-bungie-e3.html

So was GTA4 content.

In all fairness, Bungie is a great developer. They developed Myth I/II, and Marathon. IMO, they've come off a bit childish in this whole E3 affair though. It's not good business to air dirty laundry.

But it is good business to have a countdown to nothing? What else would you have them do?

But it is good business to have a countdown to nothing? What else would you have them do?

You suck it up, and put out a less revealing response and say sorry, no announcement at this time. I agree its bad business to air that kind of dirty laundry.

It is strange, Bungie makes this big fuss about wanting to be independent because they are sick of Microsoft making them do nothing but Halo games, so they become independent and end up... making a Halo game. For Microsoft.

You guys don't have all the facts or are overlooking some things. Whoever publishes the game has the ultimate say so in what is released when, how, etc. You can develop all you want but without a publisher it is for nothing.

In addition, Bungie broke from Microsoft. Microsoft holds the rights to Halo. I highly doubt the game released is a Halo game. Frankie left Bungie to work for Microsoft to work on Halo related stuff at Microsoft. Bungie isn't creating the next Halo game, I doubt it. If they are, why would Frankie leave the company creating the next Halo game to go to a company and his job is the Halo games. Makes no sense.

I really think this "No Announcement" is the best marketing they could possibly have at this point, even if its p!ssing off Bungie fans. With Gears being the main focus this year, whatever this game is will get the focus next year.

WilliamR, what I said had nothing to do with the announcement.

And MS announced days ago that Bungie is working on a new Halo. Is that the ONLY game they are working on? Probably not (unlike before). But still it is odd they would break from MS because of too much Halo and go back to working on Halo.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/07/halo-bungie-e3.html

So was GTA4 content.

You guys don't have all the facts or are overlooking some things. Whoever publishes the game has the ultimate say so in what is released when, how, etc. You can develop all you want but without a publisher it is for nothing.

In addition, Bungie broke from Microsoft. Microsoft holds the rights to Halo. I highly doubt the game released is a Halo game. Frankie left Bungie to work for Microsoft to work on Halo related stuff at Microsoft. Bungie isn't creating the next Halo game, I doubt it. If they are, why would Frankie leave the company creating the next Halo game to go to a company and his job is the Halo games. Makes no sense.

Read that link.

WilliamR, what I said had nothing to do with the announcement.

And MS announced days ago that Bungie is working on a new Halo. Is that the ONLY game they are working on? Probably not (unlike before). But still it is odd they would break from MS because of too much Halo and go back to working on Halo.

They didnt necessarily break from MS because of "too much Halo". Bungie has stated their disappointment with Halo 2 single player many times and how the deadlines that were imposed on them literally made them just stop the game when they werent ready to. They have a lot more control now as an independent developer so I could very easily understand them breaking away from MS and still doing a Halo game. Halo, afterall, is going to be a cash cow no matter what kind of game they put out at this point, and money is why they make the games (and the love for it I suppose ; ) As an independent developer they will also have the chance to work on multiple IP's and not sacrifice one for the other to meet the insane demand for another Halo.