I'm looking for a subwoofer that has the lowest Hz possible that costs under $350 to pair with a Yamaha RX-V663BL in a 1400 cubic foot room (for now).

I do not care about volume at ALL, only Hz.

Reading the posts here, I have come up with: (lowest advertised hz, model, lowest price)
18 Hz, ED A2-300, $315
23 Hz, Athena AS-P4100, $150 + ship
24 Hz, BIC H-100, $250
25 Hz, JBL Venue Sub-12, 25 Hz, $200
25 Hz, HSU STF-1, $260
28 Hz, AV123 X-Sub, $159 + $56 Ship= $215

Am I missing any?

The ED is starting to get out of my price range, but it seems to be my best option, correct?

The eD is $315 including shipping coming in under $350.

the ed includes shipping, $315 shipped.

When do you need it. If its soon than scratch the Ed off your list.

You might want to look around for used too.

well the ed would be there in about 2 to 3 weeks not that terribly long of a wait

28 Hz, AV123 X-Sub, $215....


The av123 X-Sub is on sale for $159 right now.

The av123 X-Sub is on sale for $159 right now.

Last I knew there was an indefinite wait for those too... MLS stopped al shipments to do additional QA after numerous reported problems w/ recently shipped x-subs...

I do not care about volume at ALL, only Hz.

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I'd be careful about thinking of it in that fashion.

Being able to play low HZ is one thing.
Being able to have it be useful is another.


I too have been looking for a sub and or driver that can go lower with some gusto than my current one. If it will, I'll buy it and or build a new cabinet for that particular driver. I am limited in size so it must be a 8-10" driver.

eD had me thinking about it since the hz numbers are lower. But when I modeled their drivers in the 2 programs I use, because of the such low QTS, their -3db point using this software is in the 30's at best vented.

I don't think going by the numbers given by the manufacturers is going to point you even close to the right decision your trying to come up with. All but one give you a minus 3 db rating, one I think is allready faked to give a impression its better. But how fast do all them fall down after their 3 db point, some may not have the ability, and some may be able to generate a 15 hz tone, but so down in db, you'd never hear it.

Unless someone actually measures a eD, their on my suspect list of advertising with the impression to deceive. I can't get any of their box size and drivers matched to them to come close to that 18 spec unless down 20 db or so.

craigsub has tested the a2-300. it did fairly well and he liked there offering.
i also have 2 of them myself. they are a nice sub.
would be hard to beat at $315. set-up properly it should do you well

craigsub has tested the a2-300. it did fairly well and he liked there offering.
i also have 2 of them myself. they are a nice sub.
would be hard to beat at $315. set-up properly it should do you well

What were the measurements????

While Craigsub has done a fine job, there is alot of data missing that tells me its of his opinion, this ranking system is. And now he has other objectives that these posts of rankings could have been a setup of sorts.

What were the measurements????

While Craigsub has done a fine job, there is alot of data missing that tells me its of his opinion, this ranking system is. And now he has other objectives that these posts of rankings could have been a setup of sorts.

i have not measured freq. sweeps
sub hits hard, and shakes the room. good music, and ht.
set-up in a good room is wonderful under $350
i would say much better than others he was looking at

I know Craig Chase, this was no setup, his ranking system is nice, but people need to take it with a grain of salt, he expects them to. Not even Ilkka has perfect measurements, theres a LOT more to the pie than our graphs tell us, this is where objective reviews from experienced enthusiasts are nice, Craig has a nice panel of people to help him and pool knowledge from, his ranking system isn't nearly as fly by the seat of his pants as I thought.

Here is the part that perplexes me here, the OP only seems interested in depth, depth is useless without spl and fidelity. Many people far more knowledgeable than I have recognized this. In this price bracket, I would be very concerned about just getting decent fidelity from the sub, let alone nice spl or deep bass.

I know Craig Chase, this was no setup, his ranking system is nice, but people need to take it with a grain of salt, he expects them to. Not even Ilkka has perfect measurements, theres a LOT more to the pie than our graphs tell us, this is where objective reviews from experienced enthusiasts are nice, Craig has a nice panel of people to help him and pool knowledge from, his ranking system isn't nearly as fly by the seat of his pants as I thought.

Here is the part that perplexes me here, the OP only seems interested in depth, depth is useless without spl and fidelity. Many people far more knowledgeable than I have recognized this. In this price bracket, I would be very concerned about just getting decent fidelity from the sub, let alone nice spl or deep bass.

You have to take it with a grain of salt without -3db measurements and other things. Whats musical to one is not the same as others, specially on the 40hz minus arena.
Also without comparatives, its hard to read within what he has. Most all the subs are from sub only makers, new coming in the market etc. Without named brands within the mix its hard to make a clear judgement of how it stands. Most people can go listen to those and that really aids in judgement or whats what.

And your second paragraph to me says it all also and I'm no guru, good understandings of the basics, but thats it.

There are many a sub that can make a sub 20 hz tone.
Distort while doing it, yes.
No SPL to it, yes.
etc.

[/I]
Unless someone actually measures a eD, their on my suspect list of advertising with the impression to deceive. I can't get any of their box size and drivers matched to them to come close to that 18 spec unless down 20 db or so.

I'm curious, when you modeled their subs what port size and tune did you use? I only ask because I was considering building something similar to an A2-300 but using a 6" port tuned to 17Hz in 170L. With this setup it models flat to 17Hz (and then drops off considerably).

From the numbers you're stating it sounds like you may be modeling a sealed system? That's what I eventually decided to go with - 4 sealed boxes ~2cf each with the same driver that's in the A2-300. It modeled pretty bad - similar to what you're describing: down ~25dB at 10Hz but in my room... flat to 7Hz at 108dB (after eQ to bring down a spike at 45Hz but no low end lift being used).

I used the AJ designer downloaded one.
And the MHsoft one from Madison sound.

They were vented designs and sealed were even worse, sometimes in the mid 40's for F3's.

I'm using still a Dayton Reference driver at 8 inches that is models all most identical to the AV123 X sub as far as its abilities.

I don't have any other programs and these are the ones I've plugged many a driver into.

I used the AJ designer downloaded one.
And the MHsoft one from Madison sound.

They were vented designs and sealed were even worse, sometimes in the mid 40's for F3's.

I'm using still a Dayton Reference driver at 8 inches that is models all most identical to the AV123 X sub as far as its abilities.


:confused: I'm still confused, what was the vented box tuned to?

Also, possibly I'm misreading that statement about the Dayton Reference driver but are you saying you're using a different driver's T/S parameters to model what the eD sub should do? If so you should go to their site, under the car audio section (where they sell drivers individually) and get the T/S parameters from the 13Kv.2 D2 driver, that's the one they're using in the A2-300.

For my models I was using Unibox and WinISD (the standard free programs used to model boxes in the DIY forum) and both gave me the same results using 170L tuned to 17Hz - both modeled flat to 17Hz and with ~200W the driver didn't exceed XMax until around 10Hz.

:confused: I'm still confused, what was the vented box tuned to?

Also, possibly I'm misreading that statement about the Dayton Reference driver but are you saying you're using a different driver's T/S parameters to model what the eD sub should do? If so you should go to their site, under the car audio section (where they sell drivers individually) and get the T/S parameters from the 13Kv.2 D2 driver, that's the one they're using in the A2-300.

For my models I was using Unibox and WinISD (the standard free programs used to model boxes in the DIY forum) and both gave me the same results using 170L tuned to 17Hz - both modeled flat to 17Hz and with ~200W the driver didn't exceed XMax until around 10Hz.

The MHsoft one linked from Madison sound takes the TS parameters and suggests a port size and box size.

The AJ designer ones allows for different port diameters then calculates a box size etc.

And I'm using a Dayton reference drivers soley because it modeled better than anything to date when I picked it. 1.1 cubic foot box, 2 inch port-8 inches long with a 240 watt amp.

I did use the TS specs from ED's site for every 10 inch and that one 9V at 8.125 because those in boxes should fit within the area I have. Limited to 13 x22x16

The MHsoft one linked from Madison sound takes the TS parameters and suggests a port size and box size.

The AJ designer ones allows for different port diameters then calculates a box size etc.

And I'm using a Dayton reference drivers soley because it modeled better than anything to date when I picked it. 1.1 cubic foot box, 2 inch port-8 inches long with a 240 watt amp.

I did use the TS specs from ED's site for every 10 inch and that one 9V at 8.125 because those in boxes should fit within the area I have. Limited to 13 x22x16

:o I think we may be discussing two different things... I was replying to your statement that you didn't believe eD's stated FR for the A2-300 because when you model it you don't get a FR that's flat to 18Hz and because of that you're adding eD to your "suspect" list to not trust their posted +/-3db numbers. I was refuting that as I have modeled the driver that's in the A2-300 and gotten it to model flat to 17Hz...

Sorry for the confusion.

:o I think we may be discussing two different things... I was replying to your statement that you didn't believe eD's stated FR for the A2-300 because when you model it you don't get a FR that's flat to 18Hz and because of that you're adding eD to your "suspect" list to not trust their posted +/-3db numbers. I was refuting that as I have modeled the driver that's in the A2-300 and gotten it to model flat to 17Hz...

Sorry for the confusion.


NO, NO confusion here at all.

I can't get any of their drivers and box sizing to get flat to 18hz using those 2 programs I listed.

If I could get them there, then I may build another box and use one of their drivers. Since I can't get them there, then I can't rely upon what they advertise.

?? The reason I thought I was lost is that the driver in the A2-300 is a 12" driver - the 13Kv.2. It's also available in the Dual 4 Ohm variety for $50 on clearance right now (pretty much only useful in pairs though). You mentioned that you modeled all of their 10" and 8" drivers...

?? The reason I thought I was lost is that the driver in the A2-300 is a 12" driver - the 13Kv.2. It's also available in the Dual 4 Ohm variety for $50 on clearance right now (pretty much only useful in pairs though). You mentioned that you modeled all of their 10" and 8" drivers...


Yes I modeled their smaller drivers for something I could use for the same type results the OP was looking for.
When I couldn't get their drivers and boxes to work out it explained at least to me, something was amiss and I then wouldn't use their smaller drivers for what I wanted.

As I said, I have limited space of for one, dimensions could max 22x12 by up to 16 deep and was planning upon the 9 or 11 V series ones. If I could model those lower than the current 8 inch Dayton Reference I have, its just a matter of building it then. Modeling the reference gave me 28hz down 3 to which I thought I couldn't beat in 1.1 cubic foot box.

I also want lower is possible like the OP, but have a 240 amp allready and could build a box, just suck at the calculating thing to which I like those programs, stupid simple!!

Yes I modeled their smaller drivers for something I could use for the same type results the OP was looking for.
When I couldn't get their drivers and boxes to work out it explained at least to me, something was amiss and I then wouldn't use their smaller drivers for what I wanted.

As I said, I have limited space of for one, dimensions could max 22x12 by up to 16 deep and was planning upon the 9 or 11 V series ones. If I could model those lower than the current 8 inch Dayton Reference I have, its just a matter of building it then. Modeling the reference gave me 28hz down 3 to which I thought I couldn't beat in 1.1 cubic foot box.

I also want lower is possible like the OP, but have a 240 amp allready and could build a box, just suck at the calculating thing to which I like those programs, stupid simple!!


:) I completely understand. I wasn't trying in any way to challenge your decision on the sub you built, more power to you for going the DIY route! Just wanted everyone to know that their drivers can model to do the things they say, that's all. If you're skeptical just download WinISD (a free program) enter the T/S values for the 13Kv.2 and put it in a 170L box tuned to 17Hz, you'll see that it's completely feasible that the A2-300 could be flat to 18Hz. Unfortunately I don't know the volume of their box or what it's tuned to, if we knew that we could even model the expected response of the A2-300 and see what it looks like down to 18Hz.

Thing is, I'd like it to be challenged.
That way maybe I'd and other may learn from it one way or another.
I will download those other programs you suggested to see what gives if I can.

I had a named sub at one point, then blew the amp section and picked a Rhythmik one to replace it. That amp really showed how poor the driver was and that started the whole thing. 4 drivers later, I'm kinda happy, but would like to max out what I can size in.

Hint, hint, hint, prod, push!!:D:cool:

Unfortunately with that 10" height restriction there aren't a ton of options. I did read in the DIY section something about some NHT 10" subwoofer drivers on clearance for something like $20 a piece... you could fit a pair of them into that space, the only problem then is finding the right tuning, that's where WinISD comes in! It should be easier since you have the box size defined already you can play with different tunings and port sizes to see what the FR looks like alongside the driver's excursion (to ensure XMax isn't exceeded) and the port air speed (to ensure no audible chuffing will occur).

Found the link for the cheap 10" NHT drivers:

http://home.comcast.net/~jhidley/index.html

It's the NPT-11-075-1/NPT-11-075-2