As promised to a number of old film buffs,below are some shots taken from the 1964 classic Zulu. The film isn't available yet on BD, and dont know if it will be, but I had a chance to view it a while back, uncompressed. It was clearly superior to BD, I then saw the compressed broadcast version, not the one photographed, and it was easily as good as the best BD transfers. I had to sit on these till after it had been shown on British TV. This is a great illustration of how impressive some of those old films can look. The landscape and nature shots were better than typical NatGeo HD.



Points to note.

1. These were just hand held shots with a small Sony camera.
2. The images are from a color accurate C3X1080, I also have HT5000 shots but theres no major difference with these rough and ready shots
3. The files are reduced from 8M, so there may be some artifacts.
4. The actual movie is pristine with few or no artefact's or edge enhancement.
5. The amazing reds are not simply over saturation, they are that color.
6. In some scenes in the movie you can actually see the red from the jackets hit peoples faces as they move.

Art, you may have a professional interest in the 3rd shot.:)

Hope you like them.


http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k368/ColonCleanser/C3X%20General/Z3.jpg

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k368/ColonCleanser/C3X%20General/Z4.jpg

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k368/ColonCleanser/C3X%20General/Z5.jpg

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k368/ColonCleanser/C3X%20General/Z6.jpg

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k368/ColonCleanser/C3X%20General/Z7.jpg

awesome, however i have to say that the fillings in his mouth are kind of funny on Z5. you would think the continuity folks would have found that one... :D

The UK has a bunch of exclusive movies in BD that are way superior to the teenage ****** stuff they are shoving down our throats here, like Jumper fe.

Misssing teeth and bad dental work. I didn't know that Michael Caine would go that far for a role.

Zulu great movie, one of my all time fave, with some top actors. Sky did a great job with their showing in HD..

Was that a Technicolor process relese? Those reds sure look like. Hypersaturated to me but most all Technicolor films were over the top. Nice to see they didn't try to plasticise out the film grain.

Dave

Nawh.Typical res 3chip dlp. That transfer is screaming for the more restyrained tip7 calibrated d65 of the digital cinema sets.

I have that film in a Criterion Laser Disc, and it is still great. Regards, Norm

Regarding the technical points above.....


The film was shot in 'Super Technirama 70', which used Vistavision Camera's. There is plenty info online for anyone whos interested. It is a Technicolor process.

http://www.in70mm.com/newsletter/2000/61/technirama/index.htm

The transfer was specially commissioned by a UK satellite company. They did some other Micheal Caine stuff including the original Italian Job, which is also pristine.

Regarding the red saturation, I think if it were ever to be corrected or restrained it would ruin the film.

Peter, I don't know if you have seen the film, but any correction would be a mistake.Its nothing to do with res 3chip, its how the film was meant to be. My first viewing was uncompressed on a DCI machine with people who work in the industry and they universally commented on how superb the cinematography was. In an old interview, the director was talking about the cast and made the comment.... " The Jackets are actually one of the main characters in the film, they are supposed to jump off screen." There was also a subliminal element to them too. The color must NEVER be altered. It would be sacrelige, and a crime against cinematography.

Peter, embrace the diverse beauty of cinema.Full marks to you though, for attempting to slip in another diss on Sim2.:)

Hope this helps.

But it IS altered as you now show it. THAT IS MY POINT. You absolutely need a DCI xenon projector calibrated to 2nm to really see the fabric on those jackets. The beautiful intensity you show there is slightly skewed by the UHP. :) I am serious.

Oh Peter, I despair.

I go to the effort of providing this for certain old movie buffs and a new C3X1080 owner, and the enjoyment of the forum in general, and you choose take a dump on peoples nachos.:)

Seriously, the fabric on the Jackets is easily seen in the actual movie, as can the velvet pile on the cuffs, glimpsed in image 2. I did explain how compressed the images are. The contrast between the red and white is truly staggering when seen on screen. It was also another reminder, not that I needed one, that we have not yet maxed out 1080p capabilities with our sources.

I aslo explained that I also saw the film uncompressed on a fully compliant DCI setup, the differences are there, no question. As you are aware Im schooling myself in DCI as we speak.

I am just lusting for that BBD (British bd) to play it on the spreading SuperKontrast population.

awesome, however i have to say that the fillings in his mouth are kind of funny on Z5. you would think the continuity folks would have found that one... :D

Thanks. Thats why I grabbed that one.

Thanks for the screen shots CM. Did you say you also saw this in film projection ?

Art

Thanks for the screen shots CM. Did you say you also saw this in film projection ?

Art

No. Uncompressed digital on a DCI, and Broadcast quality and uncompressed on the HT5k and C3.

I believe its being reprinted in limited numbers for the 35mm buffs.

If and when its made available on film I'll be itching for a screening.

I think CM has more fun then the rest of us. He gets all the cool toys and gets to see all
the cool source. Those caps look incredible. Uncompressed through a good 3 chip DLP it must hurt going back to BD. Thanks for sharing with everyone. Those who do not get to see this stuff learn through your eyes.

I think CM has more fun then the rest of us. He gets all the cool toys and gets to see all
the cool source. Those caps look incredible. Uncompressed through a good 3 chip DLP it must hurt going back to BD. Thanks for sharing with everyone. Those who do not get to see this stuff learn through your eyes.

Thanks for the kind words Alan. Glad you liked the caps.

I don't think you're exactly lacking in sources or contacts yourself.;)

5. The amazing reds are not simply over saturation, they are that color.I checked on the DVD version to try to figure out how these are encoded, using the waveform monitor feature of a Panasonic AE1000. Around the 14 minute mark I checked the front of a red jacket and it looks like the bright part was encoded at around 70 IRE red, 20 IRE green, and 10 IRE blue (from 0 IRE base). There was another spot earlier where I think it was around there, but the green was more like 25 IRE. So, at least on the DVD the saturation there is pretty close to the red primary, but not quite out that far (since green and blue are above zero). With a 2.5 gamma it looks like the green primary portion would be about 5-6% of the red portion at 20 IRE and the blue about 1% of the red portion. Although I don't know if there are any issues with REC.601 content with the AE1000 (I was running this from a PS3).

--Darin

in that movie, the jackets are as Piggys glasses or the conch are in Lord of the flies.

They are a character. their prominence was a production consideration

I checked on the DVD version to try to figure out how these are encoded, using the waveform monitor feature of a Panasonic AE1000. Around the 14 minute mark I checked the front of a red jacket and it looks like the bright part was encoded at around 70 IRE red, 20 IRE green, and 10 IRE blue (from 0 IRE base). There was another spot earlier where I think it was around there, but the green was more like 25 IRE. So, at least on the DVD the saturation there is pretty close to the red primary, but not quite out that far (since green and blue are above zero). With a 2.5 gamma it looks like the green primary portion would be about 5-6% of the red portion at 20 IRE and the blue about 1% of the red portion. Although I don't know if there are any issues with REC.601 content with the AE1000 (I was running this from a PS3).

--Darin

Thanks for the info. Here's a bit more background....

This is a totally new transfer specially commissioned last year and totally separate from the DVD. Other than the UK broadcaster, its not available yet. I believe this will be the BD transfer source. I guarantee it will blow you away, assuming they don't do anything stupid with it. Wouldn't be the first time.

The files we saw were 2K archive master and a BD master. The BD master is compressed but obviously hasn't had any broadcast funkiness applied. The archive obviously used DCI color space and the BD used rec709. The DCI color space allowed, as Peter alluded to, more detail of the jackets pile to be seen as there was less crush or LUT action going on.

Those British tunics are pretty loud in real life.

http://www.visitbritain.com/en/Images/rad55C44_tmp_tcm12-18577.JPG

Well this will be an MGM release. Hopefully the quality of CM pictures will pass through without any negative human alterations.

Removed links and inserted images directly, for ease of viewing.

Regarding the red saturation, I think if it were ever to be corrected or restrained it would ruin the film.

I don’t disagree. By noting that they looked hypersaturated to me was indicative of the Technicolor process, not that I’d prefer it otherwise. Technicolor often looks hypersaturated to me but that’s what distinguished it. It would lose the Technicolor look otherwise.

Dave

PRE ORDER HERE (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zulu-Blu-ray-Michael-Caine/dp/B001CTBGNS)

So a November release on BD.

Art

Assuming a quality transfer from the master, I can guarantee you will be very impressed.

It will be interesting to see what others British movies are restored by Sky...

It will be interesting to see what others British movies are restored by Sky...

They've done The Italian Job too. Its also of very high quality.

I was fortunate enough to see this uncompressed too, and it was pristine.

Thanks for the info. Here's a bit more background....

This is a totally new transfer specially commissioned last year and totally separate from the DVD. Other than the UK broadcaster, its not available yet. I believe this will be the BD transfer source. I guarantee it will blow you away, assuming they don't do anything stupid with it. Wouldn't be the first time.

The files we saw were 2K archive master and a BD master. The BD master is compressed but obviously hasn't had any broadcast funkiness applied. The archive obviously used DCI color space and the BD used rec709. The DCI color space allowed, as Peter alluded to, more detail of the jackets pile to be seen as there was less crush or LUT action going on.

Those British tunics are pretty loud in real life.

http://www.visitbritain.com/en/Images/rad55C44_tmp_tcm12-18577.JPG


Soi what was the transfer and display path:

1920x1080p/24 422 REC709?
1920x1080p/24 444 P3?
2048x1080p DCI (assumes P3)?
Other?

Compression:
none?
DCI 80-250mbs?
HDCAM-SR?
HDD5?

I was fortunate to see the Italian Job and Zulu as part of Sky HD 75th Birthday season for Sir Michael Caine, and as you say, they were pristine..:) I would not mind seeing Alfie, Ipcress File, or Sleuth (original) get the HD treatment if possible...

I was fortunate to see the Italian Job and Zulu as part of Sky HD 75th Birthday season for Sir Michael Caine, and as you say, they were pristine..:) I would not mind seeing Alfie, Ipcress File, or Sleuth (original) get the HD treatment if possible...

You'll be amazed when you see them without the effect of heavy broadcast compression.

A truly stunning restoration, on both movies.

I'll be very much looking forward to that..

You know although i enjoy modern cinema i really enjoy watching a great classic and for me modern movies sometimes use much too fast editing techniques as if they are trying to hide the fact that what you are watching is style over substance...Of course there are many wonderful films made today to which that statement doesn't apply.

I hope 2009 is the year we start to see some big and small classic productions let loose on BD...Lawrence of Arabia, Ben Hur, The Wizard of Oz, Forbidden Planet, North by Northwest, The Big Country, Vera Cruz and way too many titles to even begin to write them all down here.

I wish they would remaster Spartacus and give that a Blu release too...It's a shame such a classic looks woefully bad on HD media...What would it take to make it look great again ? A new print struck using modern restoration techniques ? Robert A Harris you are needed ( again - he worked on the last restoration in the nineties )

I am looking forward so much to this new BD release of Zulu and keeping my fingers crossed they do justice to this 70mm shot film. Perhaps they can get the original magnetic 6 track sound and give us that instead of just a remix.

To those that like to see action movies of British colonialists "shooting at minorities" another must have transfer is 55 days at Peking. :D :D

Come think of it there is large catalog backlog of Blue Ray movies from films shot in the 50's and sixties. The Baby boomer population is not getting any younger, if the studios don't get a'movin, they may loose a good chunk of their audience to old age.

I'll probably be deaf and almost blind before they do, Cine :)

I'm a Baby Boomer and I saw "Zulu" first run in 1964. As pointed out earlier in this thread, the film was shot in Technirama, a double 35mm frame per image process that ran through the camera sideways. 70mm prints (Super Technirama 70) could be made without blow up (35mm times two equals 70mm). The original negative was actually taller than the normal 70mm frame (Todd-AO or Super Panavision). The process was invented by Technicolor, so 35mm reduction prints were made with their special color printing process which gave a beautiful saturated and a spectacular sharp look from a regular 35mm frame reduced from a double 35mm frame. Other Technirama films include "Spartacus" and "The Vikings."

"Zulu" is a timeless classic and one of the greatest adventure movies ever made. No black friend I have shown it to has ever liked it, but every white woman and child who has seen it talks about the remarkable courage of the Zulus (the film is based on true events) and ask me if Michael Caine is going to be killed in the film. A star was born. It was Sir Michael's first starring role and I'm sure his dental work has improved during his tremendously successful life since then. The low angle shots of hundreds of massed Zulus, with the Drackenburg Mountains in the background, are truly epic looking shots that remain burned in your memory. If you haven't seen "Zulu," then you have no idea how powerful the images of film can be.

This also is one of my favorite movies.I also like Zulu Dawn with Burt Landcaster.It is not the classic that Zulu was but still a great war movie of the Big Battel the day before at Istanwana'Where the British had one of their worst defeat's ever.The battel scene's are spetacular.The Zulus that attack Rorckes drift the next day missed the big battel and were suppose to head back home.But their leader disobey orders and attack Rorckes drift.The rest is history.Both killer movies.

I check the "bluray sites" daily in hopes that Zulu is scheduled to be released.

I hope 2009 is the year we start to see some big and small classic productions let loose on BD...Lawrence of Arabia, Ben Hur, The Wizard of Oz, Forbidden Planet, North by Northwest, The Big Country, Vera Cruz and way too many titles to even begin to write them all down here.

It's a bit baffling on the order in which the studios are release their back catalog of films on BD. We've got the mediocre Battle of the Bulge and the OK Battle of Britain... but no Lawrence of Arabia, no Zulu, no Great Escape, no Ben-Hur.

North by Northwest (VistaVision) has already been restored, it looks great on DVD. Why its not on BD yet... :confused:

Vera Cruz was shot on "Superscope". It looks bad IMO (although I've only seen it on SDTV), and always has. See: http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingss1.htm

Battle of the Bulge is very far from Mediocre. ThreaD CAREFULLY!

Zulu is a UK release in November, iirc.

region free on blu?

Probably not, most likely region 2.

the 2008 PAL re-master dvd has just been released. Its look phenomenal on a 50" screen so cant wait for the BD

http://www.ezydvd.com.au/item.zml/796163

WOW! I am blown away. I know this movie well but have not seen it so wonderfully presented.



As promised to a number of old film buffs,below are some shots taken from the 1964 classic Zulu. The film isn't available yet on BD, and dont know if it will be, but I had a chance to view it a while back, uncompressed. It was clearly superior to BD, I then saw the compressed broadcast version, not the one photographed, and it was easily as good as the best BD transfers. I had to sit on these till after it had been shown on British TV. This is a great illustration of how impressive some of those old films can look. The landscape and nature shots were better than typical NatGeo HD.



Points to note.

1. These were just hand held shots with a small Sony camera.
2. The images are from a color accurate C3X1080, I also have HT5000 shots but theres no major difference with these rough and ready shots
3. The files are reduced from 8M, so there may be some artifacts.
4. The actual movie is pristine with few or no artefact's or edge enhancement.
5. The amazing reds are not simply over saturation, they are that color.
6. In some scenes in the movie you can actually see the red from the jackets hit peoples faces as they move.

Art, you may have a professional interest in the 3rd shot.:)

Hope you like them.

North by Northwest (VistaVision) has already been restored, it looks great on DVD. Why its not on BD yet... :confused:

Because it was a SD video restoration only.

WOW! I am blown away. I know this movie well but have not seen it so wonderfully presented.

I was fortunate enough to see the uncompressed master, and it was simply staggering. I just hope they don't make an ass of the transfer

I was fortunate enough to see the uncompressed master, and it was simply staggering. I just hope they don't make an ass of the transfer

Do you know how transfers are engineered? Curious, I have seen some lowly DVDs look absolutely wonderful [e.g. Pirates of the Caribbean or Master and Commander], upscaled to 1080p far better than native 1080i broadcast on Starz HD, so wondering how its done.