Here are some graphs and measurements I have made using the Anti-Mode 8033. penngray sent me this unit to measure and evaluate. I measured the S/N ratio, THD (non existent), and the frequency response. I also used my Infinite Baffle (IB) subwoofer system to make a series of graphs to get an idea of what this device is doing.

*EDIT for clarification* When I refer to setting filters and '20 Hz filter', I am referring to my use of a DSP1124P or 'BFD' to equalize the response of the subwoofer. I have also regenerated the waterfall plots using the same scale as the frequency response charts to make it easier to correlate between the two. Thanks to JohnPM for pointing these out.

Here are the measurements:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/Antimode-8033-071208.jpg

Here is the frequency response graph from close micing the IB at a 6 inch distance with no EQ.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/1-ibclosemic-noeq.jpg

And here is the waterfall plot at 6 inch distance with no EQ.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/1-wf-ibclosemic-noeq.jpg

*EDIT for clarification* When I refer to setting filters and '20 Hz filter', I am referring to my use of a DSP1124P or 'BFD' to equalize the response of the subwoofer. I have also regenerated the waterfall plots using the same scale as the frequency response charts to make it easier to correlate between the two. Thanks to JohnPM for pointing these out.

This is the same 6 inch close mic distance with 1 20 Hz filter applied:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/2-ibclosemic-20hzeq.jpg

And the associated waterfall plot:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/2-wf-ibclosemic-20hzeq.jpg

*EDIT for clarification* When I refer to setting filters and '20 Hz filter', I am referring to my use of a DSP1124P or 'BFD' to equalize the response of the subwoofer. I have also regenerated the waterfall plots using the same scale as the frequency response charts to make it easier to correlate between the two. Thanks to JohnPM for pointing these out.

This is a measurement taken at the listening position with 5 filters applied:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/3-iblp-5filtereq.jpg

And the waterfall plot:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/3-wf-iblp-5filtereq.jpg

Here is the frequency response graph of the system at the listening position using the same 5 filters with the Anti-Mode installed but in bypass mode:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/4-iblp-antimodebypass-5filtereq.jpg

And here is the associated waterfall plot:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/4-wf-iblp-antimodebypass-5filtereq.jpg

These are the control graphs to compare to the next graphs with the Anti Mode in the system and 'calibrated'.

This is the measurement from the listening position with the Anti Mode calibration having been run and active (not bypassed) in the system:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/5-iblp-antimodeactive-5filtereq.jpg

And the waterfall plot:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/5-wf-iblp-antimodeactive-5filtereq.jpg

I have set it up so that I can A/B the 8033 from the listening position and then did a blind test with my wife. What ever this unit is doing, it is very subtle. I am going to leave it in the system for a few days and then see if there is a difference when I bypasss the unit after having lived with it for a while. Right now the audible effects are not very noticable. I am also nt even sure that the graphs will show the major effects of this unit.

Comments?

Ideas?

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

It seems your room does not really need any eq and this device is supposed to get rid of any peaks in the bass. You don't have any that I can see so this device would not work for you. Do you have a room that is loaded with peaks? Try it in there.

I have set it up so that I can A/B the 8033 from the listening position and then did a blind test with my wife. What ever this unit is doing, it is very subtle.

Your frequency curve is impressively flat without equalization so using the 8033 would bring about minimal improvements, in my opinion. For instance, my room response has peaks and dips (nulls actually) that span more than 35 dB's.

I think I am going to get the 8033, not because a BFD couldn't do the job but simply because based on testing between the two, the 8033 can get to +- 2 dB's within the BFD's performance range within a few minutes. It's also way more accurate than an SMS-1.

I know John from HTS tested both units and the differences were relatively small. He spent hours with the BFD and only a few minutes with the 8033.

Regards,

Chas,

If you set the waterfall frequency axis to logarithmic and the same span as the frequency response measurements and also set the frequency response SPL axis to the same 45..105dB as the waterfalls it will be easier to relate the two.

You mention "1 20Hz filter applied" and "5 filters applied", what filters are those? The 8033 doesn't provide any individual EQ filter control, though it has some bass lift settings independently of the EQ function.

Chas,

If you set the waterfall frequency axis to logarithmic and the same span as the frequency response measurements and also set the frequency response SPL axis to the same 45..105dB as the waterfalls it will be easier to relate the two.

You mention "1 20Hz filter applied" and "5 filters applied", what filters are those? The 8033 doesn't provide any individual EQ filter control, though it has some bass lift settings independently of the EQ function.


John:
Thank you for pointing this out. I have updated the graphs to reflect the changes and put edits in for clarification.

Chuck

I agree with others that the Anti-Mode 8033 does best with an un-EQ'd sub/room containing typical peaks. In my system it very effectively eliminated a +8db hump centered at 37hz resulting in cleaner tighter sound - not bad for a set-and-forget five minute calibration process :).

I am fortunate that my treated room has produced very few problems on the overall frequency response and my PB13 can handle this same peak with its PEQ control, so I may end up selling the 8033. For those not wanting to muck with REW software and a BFD, this little box is a great alternative.

Cheers,
Ross

Here is the frequency response graph from close micing the IB at a 6 inch distance with no EQ.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/1-ibclosemic-noeq.jpg

This is the measurement from the listening position with the Anti Mode calibration having been run and active (not bypassed) in the system:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/5-iblp-antimodeactive-5filtereq.jpg


Is your referred "listening position" the same 6 inch from the subwoofer? I don't understand how else it is possible to get exactly similar responses from two different locations within the room anyhow. It's actually quite impossible. I mean 8033 is an automatic precision room-EQ, but if the listening position is 6 inch from sub there is hardly a need for any room-EQ. These two graphs could not be the same in any case. Assuming you ran the calibration with mic connected the responses are still never exactly the same, even if the initial un-EQd response is already relatively flat. It's just not possible. Something is not right here.

I'm really confused with these measurements altogether. :confused:

I guess my summer holiday is already starting to work...

It's just not possible. Something is not right here.

I'm really confused with these measurements altogether. :confused:

I guess my summer holiday is already starting to work...

No, actually you are right. I had the right title but the wrong image associated. It has been corrected now and you can see the difference. I am including a summary of all images and the first and fifth images for comparison purposes.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/7-ib-12345-compare.jpg

1, 5.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/6-ib-15compare.jpg

I am sorry for the confusion. Enjoy your holiday!

Chuck

No, actually you are right. I had the right title but the wrong image associated. It has been corrected now and you can see the difference. I am including a summary of all images and the first and fifth images for comparison purposes.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/7-ib-12345-compare.jpg

1, 5.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/chasw98/Anti-mode%208033/6-ib-15compare.jpg

I am sorry for the confusion. Enjoy your holiday!

Chuck

Chas,

I am still confused. You mention 5 filters applied several times. I assume this is from the BFD which you are using to equalize the response at the listening position. You also posted nearfield measurements of the sub with no EQ. Are there any measurements here with your rooms uncorrected response at the listening position with no filters of any kind. If not what would be helpful is to see the uncorrected/unequalized response at the listening point and then a second measurement at the listening point with the 8033 calibration in place.


Thanks and kind regards,

Dennis

I think I am going to get the 8033, not because a BFD couldn't do the job but simply because based on testing between the two, the 8033 can get to +- 2 dB's within the BFD's performance range within a few minutes. It's also way more accurate than an SMS-1.



Could you expand upon the accuracy comparison between the SMS-1 and the 8033?

Thanks,
Noah

I think I am going to get the 8033

If you want the one Chuck is testing, Im going to be selling it. I doesnt do much in my room.

This is only if Chuck doesnt want it first.

Could you expand upon the accuracy comparison between the SMS-1 and the 8033?

I'm sure TEL79 can expand on this better than I can. The measuring resolution on the SMS-1 is not fine enough to effectively counter room resonances. Anyone can simply reduce a room peak in terms of amplitude. But that isn't enough.

All that you would accomplish is lowering the peak amplitude of the resonance but not the time domain effects. The SMS-1 measures to within 1 hz I believe and that is not good enough.

What I would like to see are measurements made using the SMS-1, BFD and the 8033 in the same room. I'm sure the results will be interesting.

Regards,

Chas,

I am still confused. You mention 5 filters applied several times. I assume this is from the BFD which you are using to equalize the response at the listening position. You also posted nearfield measurements of the sub with no EQ. Are there any measurements here with your rooms uncorrected response at the listening position with no filters of any kind. If not what would be helpful is to see the uncorrected/unequalized response at the listening point and then a second measurement at the listening point with the 8033 calibration in place.


Thanks and kind regards,

Dennis

Chas,
I would like to second this request. The thing i would love to see would be 3 graphs (one of which you have alreayd made).
1-Listening postition - No EQ
2-Listening postition - BFD EQ
3-Listening postition - 8033 EQ

I want to know what the 8033 would do compared to your chosen BFD curve.

As background I have an IB also, BFD also, and am considering the 8033 for simplicity. THanks

steve

Chas,

...what would be helpful is to see the uncorrected/unequalized response at the listening point and then a second measurement at the listening point with the 8033 calibration in place.

Thanks and kind regards,

Dennis

Chas,

If possible I would also like to see these measurements.

Thank you,
John

Has anyone compared the 8033 to the SMS-1 yet ? Any more measurements been taken using the 8033 ? Any other user reviews ?

Regards,

question:
how would the antimode work with audyessy
after audyessy applies its filters, does antimode apply more?

with the Euro diving, this thing (Anti-Mode 8033) is getting cheaper and cheaper.

Euro currency trend (http://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/EUR/graph120.html)

I would like this thread to remain open as long as possible. Please. Besides one or two members who have purchased the 8033, can anyone else share their experiences with this unit ? Measurements would be appreciated.

Regards,

I would like this thread to remain open as long as possible. Please. Besides one or two members who have purchased the 8033, can anyone else share their experiences with this unit ? Measurements would be appreciated.

Regards,
same for me would like to know more
graphs listening posistion, use with audyessy, etc.

I thought this was supposed to help in the time domain?

Maybe TEL79 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=11016793) will chime in?
Check out his posts on the 8033

John

Anyone going to post more info?

John H,

How do you like you 8033 with your Conquest as I am interested in getting one to use with my Conquest. Any info you have would be appreciated.:)

Mark

Maybe TEL79 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=11016793) will chime in?
Check out his posts on the 8033

John

I will put here a list of some other threads/tests about this unit I've found in the web.

The test made by the author of Room-EQ Wizard (John Mulcahy himself):
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfd-forum/11699-testing-dspeaker-anti-mode-8033-a.html

HI-FI World UK Test (p.51 downloadable on DSPeaker server):
http://www.dspeaker.com/fileadmin/news/dspeaker/AM8033HifiWorldReview.pdf

AV123 forum
http://www.av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=32667&page=1

Here on avsforums, I visit this thread the most
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1028464&page=13

This one is a good review by a dutch site, (but the google-translation is kind of hilarious itself to read)
http://www.hifi.nl/recensies/3488/DSPeaker_Anti-Mode_8033.html

I'm also answering every question I come across considering this device. But as a developer of the algorithm, I have to avoid any direct comparison or 'which is better' cases considering the device. The truth shall prevail. ;)

Tel79, can't you just get an SMS-1 and compare against the anti-mode ? :D

Regards,

Tel79, can't you just get an SMS-1 and compare against the anti-mode ? :D

Regards,

I already know, but who would believe me ;)

question:
how would the antimode work with audyessy
after audyessy applies its filters, does antimode apply more?

I have a Pio '94. First I set up the subs and then run the 8033. Once that is done, then run MCACC for the system. Your reciever EQ will have a easier time in calibrating after you setup the 8033 sub EQ. Works for me (5 subs) and no issues with either.

Bill

with the Euro diving, this thing (Anti-Mode 8033) is getting cheaper and cheaper.

Euro currency trend (http://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/EUR/graph120.html)

Yes, and it's a good thing :)

On september 11th when the Euro was weakest (1.3939) the Anti-Mode costed only 313$.

I have a Pio '94. First I set up the subs and then run the 8033. Once that is done, then run MCACC for the system. Your reciever EQ will have a easier time in calibrating after you setup the 8033 sub EQ. Works for me (5 subs) and no issues with either.

Bill

thanks for the responce

If I have more than one sub, would it be best for me to run this for each sub? Or should I just run them both at the same time and calibrate

If I have more than one sub, would it be best for me to run this for each sub? Or should I just run them both at the same time and calibrate


calibrate them both at the same time.

If I have more than one sub, would it be best for me to run this for each sub? Or should I just run them both at the same time and calibrate

I have 2 true subs and 2 MBM-12's on the same LFE line with the Anti Mode. Calibrate them all at the same time.

Bill

HI! I'm looking for some advice if I need a anti mode 8033 or bfd eq for my setup. Attached is the graph of my room. If I need one which one to get. Thanks in advance.

Looks like you have 20 db intervals. You vary by about 15 db from 25 Hz to 70 Hz. I would think you are a good candidate for EQ and the 8033 compensates for decay time as well as frequency response, unlike the BFD.

Is 376 dollars really worth the money for this unit?

Is 376 dollars really worth the money for this unit?

A BIG YES!

Bill

I agree with others that the Anti-Mode 8033 does best with an un-EQ'd sub/room containing typical peaks. In my system it very effectively eliminated a +8db hump centered at 37hz resulting in cleaner tighter sound - not bad for a set-and-forget five minute calibration process :).

I am fortunate that my treated room has produced very few problems on the overall frequency response and my PB13 can handle this same peak with its PEQ control, so I may end up selling the 8033. For those not wanting to muck with REW software and a BFD, this little box is a great alternative.

Cheers,
Ross

Hi There,

If you end up selling the Antimode how much would you be letting it go for?

Is 376 dollars really worth the money for this unit?

That of course depends on a lot of things. I say YES :D

Has anyone compared this unit to the SVS AS-EQ 1 ?

Regards,

Has anyone compared this unit to the SVS AS-EQ 1 ?

Regards,


I know that Kal Rubinson has done reviews of both the 8033 and the AS-EQ1. There are a couple of problems. The units were tested in different systems in different states.

His review of the SVS unit will be in the September issue of Stereophile. That magazine should be available in August.

Even so I wouldn't hold my breath for a direct comparison from Kal.

My thinking is that if you have 2 subwoofers, the SVS unit is worth the extra money since it can make adjustments for 2 subs independent of each other, while the 8033 can only make one set of adjustments.

So if you only have one subwoofer the 8033 is as much as you would need.

Another parameter might be the size of your listening/seating area as the 8033 does only 1-2 measurements while the SVS can do many.

I have dual 450's with the Anti Mode in a 6000 cu ft room and it works quite well.

Bill

I have dual 450's with the Anti Mode in a 6000 cu ft room and it works quite well.

Bill

I'm glad the 8033 works well for you. Then again, your HSU 3.3's worked quite well for you up until you decided they didn't work quite well enough and you sold your HSU gear at a typical loss.

My thinking is that if you have 2 subwoofers, the SVS unit is worth the extra money since it can make adjustments for 2 subs independent of each other, while the 8033 can only make one set of adjustments.

I have dual 450's with the Anti Mode in a 6000 cu ft room and it works quite well.

Interesting. Thanks.

Regards,

I'm glad the 8033 works well for you. Then again, your HSU 3.3's worked quite well for you up until you decided they didn't work quite well enough and you sold your HSU gear at a typical loss.

The dual 3.3's didn't have enough slam and the dual 450's deliver that and then some. The SQ of the 3.3's is better then the 450's, however I am more into movies then music. For music with my SDA SRS 2.3's, I listen in Pure Direct mode. And beside all of that, the 3.3's were really my first good subs and when you get your first, you don't know anything else do you?

Bill

My thinking is that if you have 2 subwoofers, the SVS unit is worth the extra money

May be, or not. It depends on so many things, the size of your listening area among others. There surely will be situations where one is more suitable than the other, but I predict there will be considerable overlap.

It seems it takes some time for the first comparisons (of some specific situation) between AS-EQ1 and Anti-mode 8033 to appear. I'm not holding my breath. (I'm still waiting for the first waterfall of how AS-EQ1 performs in the time domain.)

I have dual 450's with the Anti Mode in a 6000 cu ft room and it works quite well.

Bill
Same well regarded experience here with the Anti-Mode 8033 in use with my dual PB12-Ultra/2's in my present approx. 3000 cf difficult-to-drive room that is open to other areas.

The Ultras will soon be challenged by SubMersives currently in transit to me. :)

If someone does a head-to-head comparison of these units, I'd be keen to know whether the Anti-Mode 8033 or the SVS AS-EQ1 (Audyssey) improve what Welti calls "MSV" or Means Spatial Variance. In other words, whether one puts the mic in 1, 2, or 20 locations in the room when running the calibration, one set of filters is running in the end. Can these filters reduce the response differences across the various listening seats?

The 8033 manual states: >>In some situations it is more favourable to compensate the room distortion for larger area. In this case, the result is no longer optimal in any single listening position, but generally improved for wider area.<< I thought Audyssey said similar things in their AES papers.

I can understand how it's possible to make improvements to a wide area of seats--even if accepting it is not the optimal in any one seat. What I'm wondering about are claims such as SVS has made: >>you'll experience virtually perfect bass in minutes. And we mean that, no matter how challenging your room or your subwoofer placement might be. In fact, we guarantee it. Acoustical nightmares are cleaned up fast as you can move the included microphone through your room. When you are done, you don't have a sweet "spot" in your room, you have a "sweet room". Flat, even and "tight". This is the best possible bass you can get in every seat. And it's even smart enough to adjust for two subs independently. Once they are put in phase by the box, it calculates the ideal flat frequency response for your sub.<<

As Welti/Toole have stated, with 2 subs some mode cancelling can be done, but I don't see these boxes doing any of that stuff. So how well can/do they even out the seat-to-seat variations? If such has been discussed and documented elsewhere, my apologies, and thanks for any links in advance.

If someone does a head-to-head comparison of these units, I'd be keen to know whether the Anti-Mode 8033 or the SVS AS-EQ1 (Audyssey) improve what Welti calls "MSV" or Means Spatial Variance. In other words, whether one puts the mic in 1, 2, or 20 locations in the room when running the calibration, one set of filters is running in the end. Can these filters reduce the response differences across the various listening seats?

The 8033 manual states: >>In some situations it is more favourable to compensate the room distortion for larger area. In this case, the result is no longer optimal in any single listening position, but generally improved for wider area.<< I thought Audyssey said similar things in their AES papers.

I can understand how it's possible to make improvements to a wide area of seats--even if accepting it is not the optimal in any one seat. What I'm wondering about are claims such as SVS has made: >>you'll experience virtually perfect bass in minutes. And we mean that, no matter how challenging your room or your subwoofer placement might be. In fact, we guarantee it. Acoustical nightmares are cleaned up fast as you can move the included microphone through your room. When you are done, you don't have a sweet "spot" in your room, you have a "sweet room". Flat, even and "tight". This is the best possible bass you can get in every seat. And it's even smart enough to adjust for two subs independently. Once they are put in phase by the box, it calculates the ideal flat frequency response for your sub.<<

As Welti/Toole have stated, with 2 subs some mode cancelling can be done, but I don't see these boxes doing any of that stuff. So how well can/do they even out the seat-to-seat variations? If such has been discussed and documented elsewhere, my apologies, and thanks for any links in advance.

They don't IMO.

I have used this , I have used Audyssey, I have usd BFD from Behringer and I have the DCX from Behringer.

You can run measurements after the fact and there isnt what I consider an overall improvement over manual measurements/EQing with the BFD. Atleast I can get a sweet spot with that if I want.

Multiple subs is still the best way to improve in room response.

They don't IMO.

I have used this , I have used Audyssey, I have usd BFD from Behringer and I have the DCX from Behringer.

You can run measurements after the fact and there isnt what I consider an overall improvement over manual measurements/EQing with the BFD. Atleast I can get a sweet spot with that if I want.

Multiple subs is still the best way to improve in room response.

Which did you prefer the BFD or the DCX. I am wondering which to get for my system and use with REW.

If someone does a head-to-head comparison of these units, I'd be keen to know whether the Anti-Mode 8033 or the SVS AS-EQ1 (Audyssey) improve what Welti calls "MSV" or Means Spatial Variance. In other words, whether one puts the mic in 1, 2, or 20 locations in the room when running the calibration, one set of filters is running in the end. Can these filters reduce the response differences across the various listening seats?

The 8033 manual states: >>In some situations it is more favourable to compensate the room distortion for larger area. In this case, the result is no longer optimal in any single listening position, but generally improved for wider area.<< I thought Audyssey said similar things in their AES papers.

I can understand how it's possible to make improvements to a wide area of seats--even if accepting it is not the optimal in any one seat. What I'm wondering about are claims such as SVS has made: >>you'll experience virtually perfect bass in minutes. And we mean that, no matter how challenging your room or your subwoofer placement might be. In fact, we guarantee it. Acoustical nightmares are cleaned up fast as you can move the included microphone through your room. When you are done, you don't have a sweet "spot" in your room, you have a "sweet room". Flat, even and "tight". This is the best possible bass you can get in every seat. And it's even smart enough to adjust for two subs independently. Once they are put in phase by the box, it calculates the ideal flat frequency response for your sub.<<

As Welti/Toole have stated, with 2 subs some mode cancelling can be done, but I don't see these boxes doing any of that stuff. So how well can/do they even out the seat-to-seat variations? If such has been discussed and documented elsewhere, my apologies, and thanks for any links in advance.
There are some relevant discussions on some of these merits in the "SVS AS-EQ1 Thoughts..." thread ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793007

A more recent addition in that thread is by pepar at this link ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16814567#post16814567

There are some others, so further searches would help.

I myself feel that what have been said thus far in such discussions just scratch the surface, so I'm yearning for more. Plus, methinks such discussions will intensify as the AS-EQ1 actually starts shipping to the general public... a shipping start date of mid August is being given prominence.

duwdu

i was thinking of getting one of these.was wondering how its hooked up?
anyone want to share?
i have two subs, if that helps.

It goes between the receiver and sub.

Sub out of your receiver to the input on the 8033. The 8033 has two outputs that can go to your subs. One is 0 degrees and the other is 180 degree phase. If you wanted them to be the same output you would make your sub that is connected to the 180 out 180 degree out of phase as well. The sub at 180 degrees connected to the 180 degree output makes 0 degree (ie the same as the other one).

You could also just use a Y splitter from the 0 degree output and go to both subs, same difference.

thanks for the info

It goes between the receiver and sub.

Sub out of your receiver to the input on the 8033. The 8033 has two outputs that can go to your subs. One is 0 degrees and the other is 180 degree phase. If you wanted them to be the same output you would make your sub that is connected to the 180 out 180 degree out of phase as well. The sub at 180 degrees connected to the 180 degree output makes 0 degree (ie the same as the other one).

You could also just use a Y splitter from the 0 degree output and go to both subs, same difference.

I've had mine for over a year now and I EQ dual A7S-450's with it. Prior to the 450's, I had dual HSU 3.3's and dual MBM-12's and the 8033 handles it all just fine. Just had to use a lot of "Y" splitters is all.

Bill