I am looking for opinions of a problem I had with a Pre/Pro product I had upgraded to a new version upgrade offer.

If you had a high end piece that had upgrade offer and you went through it spending legit dollars for the upgrade and 4-5 Months later the company announced another new upgrade, would you feel it is fair to the Customers that just had their unit upgraded, they would not upgrade it for no charge??

Your honest thoughts, opinions are appreciated!

I am looking for opinions of a problem I had with a Pre/Pro product I had upgraded to a new version upgrade offer.

If you had a high end piece that had upgrade offer and you went through it spending legit dollars for the upgrade and 4-5 Months later the company announced another new upgrade, would you feel it is fair to the Customers that just had their unit upgraded, they would not upgrade it for no charge??

Your honest thoughts, opinions are appreciated!

I think you need to give specifics about the specific product, features, cost, upgrade cost and features, etc. for anyone to give you opinions which mean anything.:p

I think you need to give specifics about the specific product, features, cost, upgrade cost and features, etc. for anyone to give you opinions which mean anything.:p

not withstanding your comment Steve, I believe he has a legit beef and IMO any reliable company should do the second upgrade at "no charge".

not withstanding your comment Steve, I believe he has a legit beef and IMO any reliable company should do the second upgrade at "no charge".

Again, you don't know the product, the upgrade, the cost, what he was told by the company or dealer, or anything. How can you give an "objective" opinion.

You're just in a hurry so you can see "The Dark Knight". Just saw it. Great movie!!!! Your Gotham subs will blow you to Gotham City when you get it on Blu Ray!!!@@@:confused:

I'm with Steve B... I mean, it certainly sounds fishy; 4-5 months isn't a long time between upgrades. But I think that without the details one couldn't make a full judgement.

Depends. If they had an upgrade available and you took advantage of it, that's one thing. If they pushed the offer on you and didn't tell you that another one was coming, that is another. It's rare for a company to do things knowingly that would piss off a customer. But it's hard to say without knowing specifics.

Again, you don't know the product, the upgrade, the cost, what he was told by the company or dealer, or anything. How can you give an "objective" opinion.

You're just in a hurry so you can see "The Dark Knight". Just saw it. Great movie!!!! Your Gotham subs will blow you to Gotham City when you get it on Blu Ray!!!@@@:confused:

saw it opening day...awesome

saw Momma Mia yesterday.... sheer fun except Pierce "cannot" sing

saw it opening day...awesome

saw Momma Mia yesterday.... sheer fun except Pierce "cannot" sing

I heard that Brosnan's singing was quite :Pierce"ing!!!!! Mama Mia!!!

I heard that Brosnan's singing was quite :Pierce"ing!!!!! Mama Mia!!!

we saw the Dark Night on Imax. Incredible experience with their sound set up

I think you need to give specifics about the specific product, features, cost, upgrade cost and features, etc. for anyone to give you opinions which mean anything.:p

not withstanding your comment Steve, I believe he has a legit beef and IMO any reliable company should do the second upgrade at "no charge".

I'm with Steve B... I mean, it certainly sounds fishy; 4-5 months isn't a long time between upgrades. But I think that without the details one couldn't make a full judgement.

Depends. If they had an upgrade available and you took advantage of it, that's one thing. If they pushed the offer on you and didn't tell you that another one was coming, that is another. It's rare for a company to do things knowingly that would piss off a customer. But it's hard to say without knowing specifics.

They were aware of the new upgrade coming up but chose not to tell me. Paying customers should had been told to wait for the next one coming out 4-5 months. This came from both the Company and the Authorized Dealer. Does it really matter which company, price and upgrade features being done when the price was the same from point A to B just as in point A to C etc. They told me there was nothing they could do and the price would be the same again to go to the latest upgrade. Led to unreturned phone calls and emails for this request to be done at their expense.

Is that really fair way to run a business. I am proud to be honest with my customers for continued success and continuous referrals.
Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance

They were aware of the new upgrade coming up but chose not to tell me. Paying customers should had been told to wait for the next one coming out 4-5 months. This came from both the Company and the Authorized Dealer. Does it really matter which company, price and upgrade features being done when the price was the same from point A to B just as in point A to C etc. They told me there was nothing they could do and the price would be the same again to go to the latest upgrade. Led to unreturned phone calls and emails for this request to be done at their expense.

Is that really fair way to run a business. I am proud to be honest with my customers for continued success and continuous referrals.
Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance


If what you say is correct you have good reason to be royally pissed!!
You'd think with today's web info that the manufacturer and dealer wouldn't want a royally pissed off customer dragging their laundry all over the internet, wouldn't you?

as I said initially his beef is legit. That happened to me once with a major manufacturer of gear I used and they did the second upgrade for me at no charge.

we saw the Dark Night on Imax. Incredible experience with their sound set up

I agree. Those scenes on top of the building that were shot with Imax cameras were amazing, and the sound had wonderful detail as well.

They were aware of the new upgrade coming up but chose not to tell me. That puts it over the top for me. That sucks! You were definitely wronged.

Now, is there any reason you won't share the brand with us, so we know who to avoid? :)

That puts it over the top for me. That sucks! You were definitely wronged.

Now, is there any reason you won't share the brand with us, so we know who to avoid? :)

I betcha he's takin' this thread to the dealer and threatening to expose them and the manufacturer to the whole wide web world if they don't maked him good!!!@@@ That's why he hasn't disclosed the dealer and specific product.

I'm going to guess Theta. Still, I suspect we're only hearing part of the story. I doubt anyone was strongarmed into the upgrade for one. For another, 4-5 months out (people often exaggerate time frames in their favor, I've found), is something that might deserve a discount on the new upgrade, but free? I don't think so. People need to ask questions too and be an informed customer.

we saw the Dark Night on Imax. Incredible experience with their sound set up


Where?

Where?

An IMAX theater in northern California. HA!!!!:D:D

If what you say is correct you have good reason to be royally pissed!!
You'd think with today's web info that the manufacturer and dealer wouldn't want a royally pissed off customer dragging their laundry all over the internet, wouldn't you?

as I said initially his beef is legit. That happened to me once with a major manufacturer of gear I used and they did the second upgrade for me at no charge.

That puts it over the top for me. That sucks! You were definitely wronged.

Now, is there any reason you won't share the brand with us, so we know who to avoid? :)

I betcha he's takin' this thread to the dealer and threatening to expose them and the manufacturer to the whole wide web world if they don't maked him good!!!@@@ That's why he hasn't disclosed the dealer and specific product.

I'm going to guess Theta. Still, I suspect we're only hearing part of the story. I doubt anyone was strongarmed into the upgrade for one. For another, 4-5 months out (people often exaggerate time frames in their favor, I've found), is something that might deserve a discount on the new upgrade, but free? I don't think so. People need to ask questions too and be an informed customer.

Alimentall, part of the story would be legit for not telling which Manufacturer, and there is no exaggeration with this issue, read carefully; I get unit upgrade done and 4-5 months later Company announces the next new upgrade is "OUT". Some kind of discount and not for no charge, you must be from a Manufacturer yourself? Truth hurts, doesn't it? But like I said at the start of this forum, your opinions are appreciated.

Where?
Regal Hacienda Crossing in Dublin, (California)

Thanks!

An IMAX theater in northern California. HA!!!!:D:D

:-)

i worked for a manufacturer, and without knowing what the upgrade it, there is no way to answer this question. is it appropriate... maybe, maybe not. there are times when you are not allowed to talk about new things coming, NDA's and the like. or you do not know if it is going to be needed, or a confirmed date. there are lots of reasons. Without basic detials, it is impossible to render an opinion.

Alimental is not a mfgr. he is a dealer.

And all the same rules apply.

And to me... this thread smells fishy. i suspect there is more to the story. like all situations, we do not know everything that is going on. and it could be totally legit and clear, but this is a pissed off person who feels he got the short end of the stick. could be the opposite, it just smells funny to me.

i worked for a manufacturer, and without knowing what the upgrade it, there is no way to answer this question. is it appropriate... maybe, maybe not. there are times when you are not allowed to talk about new things coming, NDA's and the like. or you do not know if it is going to be needed, or a confirmed date. there are lots of reasons. Without basic detials, it is impossible to render an opinion.

Alimental is not a mfgr. he is a dealer.

And all the same rules apply.

And to me... this thread smells fishy. i suspect there is more to the story. like all situations, we do not know everything that is going on. and it could be totally legit and clear, but this is a pissed off person who feels he got the short end of the stick. could be the opposite, it just smells funny to me.

Dizzman, thanks for replying... what is it that smells fishy? Should I spill my guts and let it all out with which unit this is with all the details to complete the picture?

Trust me: whether you agree with his complaint is fair or not, he's being honest about it.

Dizzman, thanks for replying... what is it that smells fishy? Should I spill my guts and let it all out with which unit this is with all the details to complete the picture?

If you want informed opinions then yes.

Sure, spill it. Right now I am dealing with a customer that has a Mac pre/pro with HDMI switching that only outputs 720p. It's 2 years old. I called Mac to see if they had a 1080p upgrade package, and they told me 'no, you'd have to buy our $8K external processor'.

Now, the customer actually has no problem paying that, but to me that train of thought is wrong. I think any 'reputable' manufacturer should allow for upgrades to their system within reason within say a 5 year period.

Unfortunately, being a board level techie myself, I see how quickly things are progressing in the a/v industry, and sometimes it's impossible to forsee what's going to happen a year or two down the road.

What I see, when someone refuses to divulge the company up front is a 'it's all about me' victim mentality instead of just being forthright about the situation. Lots of companies make mistakes, I've been REALLY screwed by a few companies [Genesis, Parasound for example], sometimes by the owner, so you know there's a finality to being screwed and others by a transient sales guy who had his head up his butt. In either case, the victim stuff is losing its luster, at least for me.

I think if you 'do' this hobby long enough something similar will happen to all of us. Some years ago I bought a Meridian 598 DVD player 4 months before they mothballed the entire range in favor of thir current G-series (aka, no resale value) - grrrrr!! Partly my fault for not doing adequate due diligence and partly my dealer's fault for prioritizing a short-term sale over a long-term relationship.

Seems curious that an A-to-B upgrade would be priced equally to an A-to-C upgrade? Usually upgrades have some kind of sequenced cost.

Having said all that, I do think one should always buy a omponent based on what it can do today rather than the promise of future upgradeability. Too many time in the past I have bought into upgradeability only to be disapointed by either manufacturer bankruptcy (TAW) or a glacial upgrade pace (Meridian).

Caveat Emptor!

The glacial upgrade pace isn't their fault, it was caused by global warming :D

Trust me: whether you agree with his complaint is fair or not, he's being honest about it.

If you want informed opinions then yes.

Sure, spill it. Right now I am dealing with a customer that has a Mac pre/pro with HDMI switching that only outputs 720p. It's 2 years old. I called Mac to see if they had a 1080p upgrade package, and they told me 'no, you'd have to buy our $8K external processor'.

Now, the customer actually has no problem paying that, but to me that train of thought is wrong. I think any 'reputable' manufacturer should allow for upgrades to their system within reason within say a 5 year period.

Unfortunately, being a board level techie myself, I see how quickly things are progressing in the a/v industry, and sometimes it's impossible to forsee what's going to happen a year or two down the road.

What I see, when someone refuses to divulge the company up front is a 'it's all about me' victim mentality instead of just being forthright about the situation. Lots of companies make mistakes, I've been REALLY screwed by a few companies [Genesis, Parasound for example], sometimes by the owner, so you know there's a finality to being screwed and others by a transient sales guy who had his head up his butt. In either case, the victim stuff is losing its luster, at least for me.

I think if you 'do' this hobby long enough something similar will happen to all of us. Some years ago I bought a Meridian 598 DVD player 4 months before they mothballed the entire range in favor of thir current G-series (aka, no resale value) - grrrrr!! Partly my fault for not doing adequate due diligence and partly my dealer's fault for prioritizing a short-term sale over a long-term relationship.

Seems curious that an A-to-B upgrade would be priced equally to an A-to-C upgrade? Usually upgrades have some kind of sequenced cost.

Having said all that, I do think one should always buy a omponent based on what it can do today rather than the promise of future upgradeability. Too many time in the past I have bought into upgradeability only to be disapointed by either manufacturer bankruptcy (TAW) or a glacial upgrade pace (Meridian).

Caveat Emptor!

Here is the whole story, I am the original owner of a Theta Casablanca I that I had upgraded to the II. The main reason I went with this was I had ordered the original without Dolby Digital and DTS. (What a mistake that was) When I called and spoke to Mary Cardas from Theta Digital she mentioned there was a upgrade also on the unit to the CBII. Since sonic improvements for 2 channel Audio for this upgrade was some of the benefits I was sold on the idea. The original dealer I had purchased the unit from was no longer an Authorized Theta dealer as Mary gave me couple recommendations to go with. After having upgrade done, Theta Digital had announced a new CBIII upgrade coming out 5 months after I had upgraded to the II. I had called on Mary Cardas about this as she told me there was nothing she could do for me that the price would be another $1500.00 for the upgrade. I was a little perturbed about this. When I made attempts to call her back about this, my calls obviously were being monitored as the receptionist took my name and number to have Mary call me back, with no return phone calls ever. I then decided to talk to Neil Sinclair on this and the same thing, took message with no returned calls. Sounds like they knew they were in the wrong?
Round II is, I just found out a few weeks ago by accident that ATI had purchased Theta Digital through this forum. I thought why not take an attempt to discuss this with them. I understand they purchased the Assets, but not liabilities etc. The price they gave me was more than I felt I should have to pay, but under the circumstances of ATI being the new owner, guess that is how it goes. Am I still pissed off, yes more so with Theta and their staff they use to have. I just hope ATI and anyone else out there in the High End in manufacturing these type of products see this and make sure they never allow this to happen to any of their "Customers" that keep them going!

That is an unfortunate story but it is not only not uncommon, but very predictable. AT LEAST you had an upgrade path. Meridian screwed me when I purchased and early CD player from them, they then announced a new product and mine was NOT upgradeable. I purchased a beautiful 720P 50 inch Plasma TV that a year later I can purchase the 1080P version for $500 less.

While I can see that you might feel hosed, you do have an upgrade option. What you did when you upgraded to the CB II (I did EXACTLY the same thing), you got value for your money. I think as long as they provide an upgrade path, they have served you fairly.

i have to be honest, this feeling in the CE industry that everything you buy has to have upgrades available with every new thing perplexes me.

As i look at it, if i buy something, i am buying it. if a software rev comes up, then great. bonus for me. but if i buy a car, a PC, whatever, i bought it as it was. once the new version of that car comes out, my resale tanks.

I have always just wondered why this industry seems to revolve around the expectation of upgrades.

Well, to be fair, upgradability is/was central to Theta marketing, more so than most companies in this space.

Mary Cardas hasn't worked at Theta for a LONG time, so why is this coming up now? Can you blame ATI? Besides, you'd really want a CBIV anyway after the HDMI upgrades are all worked out. My goodness. I'm just not seeing it.

i have to be honest, this feeling in the CE industry that everything you buy has to have upgrades available with every new thing perplexes me.

As i look at it, if i buy something, i am buying it. if a software rev comes up, then great. bonus for me. but if i buy a car, a PC, whatever, i bought it as it was. once the new version of that car comes out, my resale tanks.

I have always just wondered why this industry seems to revolve around the expectation of upgrades.

Dizzman, maybe these manufacturers should not offer these upgrades then? Damn good idea? I don' t think so.
The point I was making is a "Business" one. They should have been upfront with me, is that so wrong in your world? If I am aware of something that is coming up, I let my customers know.

Mary Cardas hasn't worked at Theta for a LONG time, so why is this coming up now? Can you blame ATI? Besides, you'd really want a CBIV anyway after the HDMI upgrades are all worked out. My goodness. I'm just not seeing it.

Alimentall,
Re read my post pertaining Mary Cardas, I was being as informative as possible, you know without it sounding "Fishy". No I do not want the next Casablanca that is going to just be a HDMI upgrade. As you mentioned when HDMI upgrades are all worked out. There will be problems within the first 12 months after release of this HDMI upgrade. Would be intelligent to wait 2 years when "any" Company releases new HDMI Video/Audio. And no I am not blaming ATI, did I say that?? I new I was taking a long shot but was worth it to give it a try.

Maybe I am missing something. Upgrade paths are great. If you can continually upgrade your processor, you save in the end. You save the loss you'd take on the piece when you sold it used and the money you'd need to buy a whole new piece. So, if I understand correctly, the manufacturer, even though there was a transition and sale, has continued to offer you an upgrade path and is charging you the going rate for the upgrades. I'm not sure I understand exactly -- what is your beef?

JGV1, do you remember how much you paid for the I to II upgrade. My recollection was that it was a $2500 upgrade. I do remember what I paid for the I to III upgrade; $3500. I'm not sure that you really did get hosed.

Looking at it another way, Theta is notorious for announcing an upgrade with the reality being that you will be lucky to be scheduled for 6-12 months. If it was 5 months before you knew about the upgrade and it would have been another 6-12 months until you would have been scheduled, would you have waited? Based on the $2500 for the I to II upgrade + $1500 for the II to III upgrade (your number) your total cost of $4000 compares to $3500 for the I to III upgrade and you were able to enjoy the CBII upgrade for almost a year.

I saw from your other posts that you are happy with the CB performance why not just sit back and enjoy the music.

I think the beef is mooing quite clearly (at least to me!). The second upgrade happened so soon after he had his unit upgraded that surely the dealer/company must have known it was coming up and should have told him that. Even if they weren't "obligated" to do so then I think that any good company would want to stand by a loyal customer and offer a discount for the second upgrade considering that if he had gone directly to the second upgrade it would have been half the cost of going through 2 upgrades.

I stand corrected about the costs based on jjwinterberg's posts.
Now I'm not sure about the beef either.

Agreed on both counts. I do think it would have been a good idea for Theta to give him a gentle suggestion to wait a few months. Having said that, if jjwinterberg's recollection is right, jgv1 is out at most $500, and he got to enjoy an interim upgrade in the meanwhile. That doesn't seem too bad.

Not to be an apologist for Theta -- I've never owned their gear -- but I can see an innocent scenario where they were working on the next upgrade, but could only tell you what they knew at the time. That would be reasonable, right? It sounds like this company has been through some uncertain times recently, no? The good news seems to be that the new owners are making good on the upgrade path promised by previous owners and seem to have steered the ship through uncertain waters. So, another upgrade is available soon after you completed the previous one; That's sort of inconvenient and might cost you a few bucks more than if they knew the next upgrade was going to be available so soon, but I don't see any bad intentions on their part. In an ideal world, maybe they'd offer you a discount on the new upgrade and that would be a nice thing for them to do, but what they are offering isn't a mean thing to do, it is just them offering you -- and all their other customers -- what they have to offer. If they believe they have been reasonable, told you what they knew at the time, believe the upgrade is a good value and are standing behind their price, can't fault them for that. Sometimes, a company just has to say this is my price, we are not offering discounts for any reason, take it or leave it. This company seems to be competing by offering excellent gear and an upgrade path that saves you in the long run. They told you what they knew when they knew it. They are offering you the most current upgrade at the going rate. If I am missing something, please point it out.


.

Maybe I am missing something. Upgrade paths are great. If you can continually upgrade your processor, you save in the end. You save the loss you'd take on the piece when you sold it used and the money you'd need to buy a whole new piece. So, if I understand correctly, the manufacturer, even though there was a transition and sale, has continued to offer you an upgrade path and is charging you the going rate for the upgrades. I'm not sure I understand exactly -- what is your beef?

rsbeck, how can you be missing something.... this was in 2004 when I sent unit in for DolbyDigital & DTS added to unit, find out during conversation with Theta the unit has a basic upgrade to improve sonics etc for $1500. (This is way before the sale of Theta Digital)
5 months later they announce there was a new upgrade to the III, which cost from I to III or II to III was the same price. My legit argument was that Theta Digital should had told me to hold up till the III upgrade comes out for what was going to be the same price.... do you comprehend?
Would you go buy 60000 mile rated tires and they only last 20000 miles, do you just blow it off and buy another set or get the prorate price for the difference..........

JGV1, do you remember how much you paid for the I to II upgrade. My recollection was that it was a $2500 upgrade. I do remember what I paid for the I to III upgrade; $3500. I'm not sure that you really did get hosed.

Looking at it another way, Theta is notorious for announcing an upgrade with the reality being that you will be lucky to be scheduled for 6-12 months. If it was 5 months before you knew about the upgrade and it would have been another 6-12 months until you would have been scheduled, would you have waited? Based on the $2500 for the I to II upgrade + $1500 for the II to III upgrade (your number) your total cost of $4000 compares to $3500 for the I to III upgrade and you were able to enjoy the CBII upgrade for almost a year.

I saw from your other posts that you are happy with the CB performance why not just sit back and enjoy the music.

Agreed on both counts. I do think it would have been a good idea for Theta to give him a gentle suggestion to wait a few months. Having said that, if jjwinterberg's recollection is right, jgv1 is out at most $500, and he got to enjoy an interim upgrade in the meanwhile. That doesn't seem too bad.

jjwinterberg, In 2004 I paid $1500 for the upgrade excluding the DD & DTS, 5 months later they post a upgrade of the III..... which was going to be the same price regardless at that time!
Michael Grant, No, I am out $1200 to upgrade to the III, not $500....

jjW above states that the l to lll upgrade cost him $3,500.

JGV1, do you remember how much you paid for the I to II upgrade. My recollection was that it was a $2500 upgrade. I do remember what I paid for the I to III upgrade; $3500. I'm not sure that you really did get hosed.

Looking at it another way, Theta is notorious for announcing an upgrade with the reality being that you will be lucky to be scheduled for 6-12 months. If it was 5 months before you knew about the upgrade and it would have been another 6-12 months until you would have been scheduled, would you have waited? Based on the $2500 for the I to II upgrade + $1500 for the II to III upgrade (your number) your total cost of $4000 compares to $3500 for the I to III upgrade and you were able to enjoy the CBII upgrade for almost a year.


[QUOTE=rsbeck;14345510]jjW above states that the l to lll upgrade cost him $3,500.

jjw, when did you get "just" the upgrade without the other options?? This is the key question here to simplify these multi questions.

If this happened back in 2004 before the new owners took over, why the grumbling now?

If this happened back in 2004 before the new owners took over, why the grumbling now?

rsbeck, you must be skipping alot of replies here..... if you have the time start from the beginning and then you will get it

Remember I was asking for opinions about one topic.

jjwinterberg, In 2004 I paid $1500 for the upgrade excluding the DD & DTS, 5 months later they post a upgrade of the III..... which was going to be the same price regardless at that time!
Michael Grant, No, I am out $1200 to upgrade to the III, not $500....Gotcha. That's large enough to grouse over, IMO :) At least it was back then. As I shared privately, at this point it's probably best to just make your future Theta decisions based on ATI's posture moving forward, not how you may have been treated in the past.

rsbeck, how can you be missing something.... this was in 2004 when I sent unit in for DolbyDigital & DTS added to unit, find out during conversation with Theta the unit has a basic upgrade to improve sonics etc for $1500. (This is way before the sale of Theta Digital)
5 months later they announce there was a new upgrade to the III, which cost from I to III or II to III was the same price. My legit argument was that Theta Digital should had told me to hold up till the III upgrade comes out for what was going to be the same price.... do you comprehend?
Would you go buy 60000 mile rated tires and they only last 20000 miles, do you just blow it off and buy another set or get the prorate price for the difference..........

rsbeck, can you now answer my questions I asked here earlier, plus provide your opinion what I was asking?

I don't know jgv1, this is how you started the thread....

If you had a high end piece that had upgrade offer and you went through it spending legit dollars for the upgrade and 4-5 Months later the company announced another new upgrade, would you feel it is fair to the Customers that just had their unit upgraded, they would not upgrade it for no charge??

It appears to me that you paid $1,500 to go from version one to version two.

jjw says he paid $3,500 to go from version one to version three.

But, after paying $1,500, it appears you wanted them to upgrade you to version three at no additional charge.

Now that I know the particulars, it seems to me that you are being completely unreasonable.

Maybe that's why people at Theta have stopped returning your phone calls.

Here is the whole story, I am the original owner of a Theta Casablanca I that I had upgraded to the II. The main reason I went with this was I had ordered the original without Dolby Digital and DTS. (What a mistake that was) When I called and spoke to Mary Cardas from Theta Digital she mentioned there was a upgrade also on the unit to the CBII. Since sonic improvements for 2 channel Audio for this upgrade was some of the benefits I was sold on the idea. The original dealer I had purchased the unit from was no longer an Authorized Theta dealer as Mary gave me couple recommendations to go with. After having upgrade done, Theta Digital had announced a new CBIII upgrade coming out 5 months after I had upgraded to the II. I had called on Mary Cardas about this as she told me there was nothing she could do for me that the price would be another $1500.00 for the upgrade. I was a little perturbed about this. When I made attempts to call her back about this, my calls obviously were being monitored as the receptionist took my name and number to have Mary call me back, with no return phone calls ever. I then decided to talk to Neil Sinclair on this and the same thing, took message with no returned calls. Sounds like they knew they were in the wrong?
Round II is, I just found out a few weeks ago by accident that ATI had purchased Theta Digital through this forum. I thought why not take an attempt to discuss this with them. I understand they purchased the Assets, but not liabilities etc. The price they gave me was more than I felt I should have to pay, but under the circumstances of ATI being the new owner, guess that is how it goes. Am I still pissed off, yes more so with Theta and their staff they use to have. I just hope ATI and anyone else out there in the High End in manufacturing these type of products see this and make sure they never allow this to happen to any of their "Customers" that keep them going!

WOW! I upgraded from CB1 to CB2 like 2002. And to CB3 0n 3-30-05 (I have the receipt). Where have you been??? ANd the upgrade cost from CB1 to CB3 was substantially more than just upgrading from CB1 to CB2.

I think the beef is mooing quite clearly (at least to me!). The second upgrade happened so soon after he had his unit upgraded that surely the dealer/company must have known it was coming up and should have told him that. Even if they weren't "obligated" to do so then I think that any good company would want to stand by a loyal customer and offer a discount for the second upgrade considering that if he had gone directly to the second upgrade it would have been half the cost of going through 2 upgrades.

Theta's upgrade process, from being announced to fruition, took many, many months, with the CB3 I think I waited over a year for the upgrade from when new CB3 units first became available.

Since I wasn't there I don't know who told who what. But if an upgrade to the CB3 was already or shortly available and the dealer knew, then you should have been advised of this option, the time frame and cost so you could have then made the appropriate decision.

rsbeck, how can you be missing something.... this was in 2004 when I sent unit in for DolbyDigital & DTS added to unit, find out during conversation with Theta the unit has a basic upgrade to improve sonics etc for $1500. (This is way before the sale of Theta Digital)
5 months later they announce there was a new upgrade to the III, which cost from I to III or II to III was the same price. My legit argument was that Theta Digital should had told me to hold up till the III upgrade comes out for what was going to be the same price.... do you comprehend?
Would you go buy 60000 mile rated tires and they only last 20000 miles, do you just blow it off and buy another set or get the prorate price for the difference..........


Sorry, I was one of the first to upgrade from the CB2 to CB3 (receipt for this dated 3-30-05) - I did the upgrade and got the Theta Compli at the same time. I was one of the early upgraders, too.

This is how you continued....

They were aware of the new upgrade coming up but chose not to tell me.

You don't know this to be a fact, this is just *your* story. If you insist on this story even though the company tells you;


1) They did not know when any new update was coming.

2) They do not feel they should be punished for the misdeed that exists only in *your* mind, so they do not feel you are owed another upgrade at no additional cost.

You also keep insisting that...

the price was the same from point A to B just as in point A to C

Yet jjw tells us it was *NOT* the same price. A to B was $1,500 and A to C was $3,500.

I don't know jgv1, this is how you started the thread....



It appears to me that you paid $1,500 to go from version one to version two.

jjw says he paid $3,500 to go from version one to version three.

But, after paying $1,500, it appears you wanted them to upgrade you to version three at no additional charge.

Now that I know the particulars, it seems to me that you are being completely unreasonable.

Maybe that's why people at Theta have stopped returning your phone calls.

You think?

And this....

Here is the whole story...After having upgrade done, Theta Digital had announced a new CBIII upgrade coming out 5 months after I had upgraded to the II. I had called on Mary Cardas about this as she told me there was nothing she could do for me that the price would be another $1500.00 for the upgrade.

In this post, you claimed that they would get you from B to C for $1,500.

If this is true, then your total cost for going from A to C would be $3,000.

This is $500 LESS than jjw paid to go from A to C!


When I made attempts to call her back about this, my calls obviously were being monitored as the receptionist took my name and number to have Mary call me back, with no return phone calls ever.

Why do you think your calls were being "monitored?"

I then decided to talk to Neil Sinclair on this and the same thing, took message with no returned calls.

Didn't Mary already tell you there was nothing else she could do for you?

Sounds like they knew they were in the wrong?

I think there is another possible explanation; After telling you that you could upgrade to CBlll for another $1,500 and you insisting that you should get the upgrade AT NO ADDITION COST -- they wrote you off as a crank.

But wait, there's more...

Round II is, I just found out a few weeks ago by accident that ATI had purchased Theta Digital through this forum. I thought why not take an attempt to discuss this with them. I understand they purchased the Assets, but not liabilities etc. The price they gave me was more than I felt I should have to pay

Sure, because you wanted the additional upgrade AT NO ADDITIONAL COST, even though every other customer had to pay for it. And you felt this should be Theta's punishment for failing to tell you that another upgrade was coming -- and Theta obviously disagreed with your notion. Both the old Theta and the new Theta.

So, now I have gone back to your first post and read forward, but it didn't help your story, it made things look worse for you.

Ouch! You're doing some good digging.

when an upgrade is clean and logical, then sure, you act fair and give a nudge to wait.

If they are not sure of the date, most will not even talk about it for various reasons.

I hear you in a general sense, but in the specifics, i think that you just had a bit of bad luck timing wise.

my comments on upgrades were just in general. not at any person or scenario. AV seems to act diffrent that every other market segment. Every other. we used to get it at extron... people wanting an upgrade/replacement on the prod they have used for a year since the new one came out. it always surprised me personally.

Ouch! You're doing some good digging.

But....I'm not digging what I'm digging.

I don't know jgv1, this is how you started the thread....



It appears to me that you paid $1,500 to go from version one to version two.

jjw says he paid $3,500 to go from version one to version three.

But, after paying $1,500, it appears you wanted them to upgrade you to version three at no additional charge.

Now that I know the particulars, it seems to me that you are being completely unreasonable.

Maybe that's why people at Theta have stopped returning your phone calls.

I have not seen a reply yet from jjw what all he had done, mind you there was more options than just the upgrade to the II. This upgrade did not include upgrading DAC cards, LCD color change, Panel Change etc.

I was being unreasonable? The legit reason they were not returning my phone calls is because they knew they were wrong. To them the truth hurt them making the wrong decision they did.

Last week I called two Dealers for current Pricing, from the I to the III or the II to the III is $2200.00. Their price was discounted from this to have done......

Your story has more holes than a golf course and you change it more often than you do your underwear.

It sounds to me like Mary Cardas tried to help you four years ago, offered to bring you current to the version 3 for $1,500 -- this is what you said earlier in the thread so too late to change it now -- and you screwed up by demanding it for free even though every other customer was paying $3,500 to go from one to three and this would have only cost you $3,000. Plus, you probably insulted her by insisting that they were somehow cheating you and she refused to deal with you any longer.

Now, it is four years later, the company has been sold and the price structure has apparently changed, although I wouldn't believe it until someone else corroborates it.

If true, this explains why you're suddenly really pissed off four years later.

It has suddenly become really apparent that you screwed up royally by failing to take Cardas' offer four years ago. The price has gone up and apparently NOW -- FOUR YEARS LATER -- it costs the same to go from version one to version three as it does to go from version two to version three.

You tried to make your story sound better by claiming this was the case back in 2004, five months after you upgraded to version two, but that story blew up like a joke shop cigar when others chimed in and put the lie to it.

So, according to you -- NOW -- anyone who wants to go from two to three has to pay $2,200, but you're still insisting you should get this upgrade for free because uh......four years ago, blah, blah, blah...

So, they still refuse to give you the upgrade for free AND the price for you to go from two to three has gone up in four years.

It's too bad you didn't take Cardas' offer four years ago.

But, that's nobody's fault, but yours.

Last week I called two Dealers for current Pricing, from the I to the III or the II to the III is $2200.00. Their price was discounted from this to have done......

You've already proven that you don't listen very well or get things right.
So your above statement has no credibility. And even if its correct, which I doubt, that's now, not then.

Besides, Mary is an extremely reasonable person who would bend over backwards for a customer, so precious little of this is on any kind of solid ground.

Maybe I am missing something. Upgrade paths are great. If you can continually upgrade your processor, you save in the end. You save the loss you'd take on the piece when you sold it used and the money you'd need to buy a whole new piece. So, if I understand correctly, the manufacturer, even though there was a transition and sale, has continued to offer you an upgrade path and is charging you the going rate for the upgrades. I'm not sure I understand exactly -- what is your beef?

Perhaps it is just me, but I would much rather have frequent upgrades and risk occasionally getting caught in the middle than be promised an upgrade path and then get nothing .....

Thanks to all for your opinions on this matter.

I have not seen a reply yet from jjw what all he had done, mind you there was more options than just the upgrade to the II. This upgrade did not include upgrading DAC cards, LCD color change, Panel Change etc.

I was being unreasonable? The legit reason they were not returning my phone calls is because they knew they were wrong. To them the truth hurt them making the wrong decision they did.

I had to go find my receipts for the upgrade so that I wouldn't be adding any more noise to this discussion.

My invoice was dated 12/28/04

CBI to CBIII upgrade was $3500 - $500 for being the original owner net cost $3000.

I also added:
an Extreme DAC at the time for $3395
the blue LED display upgrade for $600
and the upgraded panel for $250

For my upgrade of the CBII to CBIII based on my e-mail from Carl Nicholson at Theta:

$2500 and $2000 for original owners

I also found the literature that Theta sent out announcing the CBI to CBII upgrade but I could not find the price. I remember that the upgrade included a new motherboard, power supply, and software and I'm pretty sure that the price was $2000 for original owners and $2500 for others.

I just thought I would try and set the record straight.

John

I had to go find my receipts for the upgrade so that I wouldn't be adding any more noise to this discussion.

My invoice was dated 12/28/04

CBI to CBIII upgrade was $3500 - $500 for being the original owner net cost $3000.

I also added:
an Extreme DAC at the time for $3395
the blue LED display upgrade for $600
and the upgraded panel for $250

For my upgrade of the CBII to CBIII based on my e-mail from Carl Nicholson at Theta:

$2500 and $2000 for original owners

I also found the literature that Theta sent out announcing the CBI to CBII upgrade but I could not find the price. I remember that the upgrade included a new motherboard, power supply, and software and I'm pretty sure that the price was $2000 for original owners and $2500 for others.

I just thought I would try and set the record straight.

John

jj, thanks for the info..... enjoy and happy listening

jj, thanks for the info..... enjoy and happy listening

I think its time for you to quit griping and ENJOY THE MUSIC!!!@@@:D

I think its time for you to quit griping and ENJOY THE MUSIC!!!@@@:D

Steve, I believe I have, did you not read my post from yesterday thanking everyone for their opinions... this post is not really necessary for anymore comments as I learned from people like you on your opinions.... I had a legit question and received legit answers. End of story...

Though few will admit (dealer and manufacturer) the problem is all economics bumping heads with ethics. You can't take a client that is ready to buy today off the market.

Many of these companies are small so todays sales pays last months accounts payable.