The DVDO® EDGE™ $799 retail is an affordable high quality video processor and A/V hub that converts standard definition, high definition and PC signals from up to ten sources (including six HDMI 1.3 compatible devices) to any HDTV resolution up to 1080p. EDGE has a very intuitive user interface which makes installation a breeze. EDGE has two HDMI 1.3 outputs, one with audio and video and one with audio only to facilitate connections to an HDMI/DVI equipped display and HDMI AV Receiver. An optical audio output is available for older AV Receivers. A backlit universal remote control with a luxurious “soft-touch” finish is also included. Images are available at the bottom of this post.

The DVDO EDGE incorporates all of Anchor Bay’s acclaimed Video Reference Series, VRS™, technologies on the ABT2010 ASIC, including:

Precision Deinterlacing™ – 480i/576i/1080i 10-bit Motion, Edge & Source Adaptive Deinterlacer
• Five-field motion adaptive deinterlacing
• Edge adaptive processing to produce smooth diagonal edges
• Three frame video processing delay (Max)
• Game Mode with very low latency (sub-1 frame delay)
• Arbitrary cadence detection (any:any) to detect non-standard cadences in input signals.
o Reliable 2:2 pull-down detection for 50Hz countries
o Detection of 2:2 ↔ 3:2 crossfades and out of phase 3:2 crossfades
o Detection of multiple source types within a frame
o Bad edit detection and compensation to minimize artifacts caused by sequence breaks in film content

PReP™ - Progressive ReProcessing of 480p and 576p input signals allows poor deinterlacing of any source to be undone and done correctly using Precision Deinterlacing™.

Mosquito Noise Reduction - Reduces random noise which appears along the edges of compressed images in SD and HD content

Fine Detail Enhancement – Extracts fine detail in low resolution or compressed SD or HD content

Edge Enhancement – Sharpens edges without adding ringing

Precision Video Scaling II™ - 10-bit Scaling up to 1080p

Progressive Cadence Detection™ of 480p, 576p, 720p and 1080p input signals – Allows source-locked framerate output of film-based content (24/25Hz)

Rightrate™ – High-Performance Framerate Conversion which enables 1080p-24Hz output of film-based content.

Precision A/V Lipsync™ - Intelligent digital audio delay technology to match Audio and Video timing

AutoCUE-C™ – Automatic Chroma Upsampling Error detection and correction

Features

Sleek New Product Design with luxurious “soft-touch” finish (Image available at the bottom of this post)

Intuitive Display/Source Setup Wizards make installation a breeze

User Definable Names for all inputs using keyboard entry

On Screen ‘Hints’ available for all controls

Dedicated HDMI Audio Only Output for connections to AV Receivers and Processors

Backlit Learning Universal Remote Control with luxurious “soft-touch” finish and Discrete Input selection. (Image available at the bottom of this post)

Rear Panel IR Input (mini-jack) for use with existing automation systems.

6 HDMI 1.3 Inputs which process 480i/p, 576i/p, 720p-50/60, 1080i-50/60, 1080p-24/25/50/60, and VGA-SXGA@60Hz signals. One of the inputs is hidden on the “front panel”. All HDMI inputs/outputs have increased spacing between connectors for cables with large overmolding.

Internal Universal Power Supply

Input Aspect Ratio Controls
•Presets: 4:3 full frame, 4:3 letterbox, 16:9 full frame, Panorama (non linear stretch)
•Flexible Horizontal and Vertical Zooming & Panning controls
•Overscan Adjustment per input with separate memories for SD and HD

Output Aspect Ratio Controls
•Presets: 4:3, 16:9
•Underscan Adjustment to eliminate Overscan inherent in a display

•Advanced time base correction (TBC) with frame synchronization
•High performance, multi-standard video decoder, 10-bit high dynamic range, deep color processing and 3D noise reduction (DNR)
•NTSC/PAL 3D comb filter
•Flexible Digital and Analog Audio switching and routing – 6 HDMI audio/video inputs, 5 assignable audio inputs (3 optical/1 coaxial/1 analog) with 1 HDMI audio/video output, 1 HDMI ‘Audio Only’ output, and 1 optical audio output.


•Preset output resolutions:

480p-60 (720x480@60Hz)
720p-60 (1280x720@60Hz)
1080i-60 (1920x1080@60Hz)
1080p-60 (1920x1080@60Hz)

576p-50 (720x576@50Hz)
720p-50 (1280x720@50Hz)
1080i-50 (1920x1080@50Hz)
1080p-50 (1920x1080@50Hz)

1080p-24 (1920x1080@24Hz)

VGA (640x480@60Hz)

Technical Specifications

Ten Video Inputs

• One Composite (NTSC/PAL/SECAM)
• One S-Video (NTSC/PAL/SECAM)
• One Component (YPbPr or RGB/S) processes 480i/p-60, 576i/p-50, 720p-50/60, 1080i-50/60, 1080p-60
• One Component/RGBHV (YPbPr/RGBS/RGBHV) processes 480i/p-60, 576i/p-50, 720p-50/60, 1080i-50/60, 1080p-60, VGA/SVGA/XGA/SXGA@60Hz
• Six HDMI 1.3 processes 480i/p, 576 i/p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p- 24/25/50/60, VGA/SVGA/XGA/SXGA@60Hz

Eleven Audio Inputs

• Six HDMI (HDMI v1.3)
• One Coaxial Digital (assignable)
• Three Optical Digital (assignable)
• One Analog Left/Right (assignable)

One HDMI 1.3 Audio/Video Output (For Display Connection)

• Backwards compatible with DVI displays

Two Digital Audio Outputs

• One HDMI 1.3 ‘Audio Only’ output for receivers with HDMI
• One Optical Digital for receivers without HDMI

Controls

• Backlit Universal IR remote control with direct input access codes and rear panel IR connector for RF-to-IR remote controls(mini-jack)
• Functions accessible via On Screen Display (OSD)
• USB port for service updates (not intended for new features)
• Fully programmable controls for each separate video input with non-volatile memories:
- Automatic input source detection & input priority selection
- Picture controls with memory for each input: Fine Detail, Edge Enhancement, Brightness, Contrast, Saturation, Hue
• Output Controls: Format/Resolution

Physical Dimensions (height x width x depth)

• 2.2” x 17” x 10.4” (26.3cm x 43.4cm x 5.5cm)

MSRP: $799

FAQs

Q: What new features does EDGE have that have never appeared in a DVDO product?
A: • New Intuitive User Interface
• Setup Wizards
• Front Panel HDMI Input
• Sleek New Product Design
• Improved Spacing between All HDMI Connections
• Rear Panel IR Connection
• Internal Power Supply
• Backlit Universal Remote Control

Q: What VRS™, Video Reference Series, technologies are incorporated into the DVDO EDGE?
A: EDGE incorporates Anchor Bay's Mosquito Noise Reduction, Fine Detail Enhancement, Edge Enhancement, Precision Deinterlacing™, Precision Video Scaling II™, PReP™ (Progressive ReProcessing), Progressive Cadence Detection™, RightRate™ framerate conversion, AutoCUE-C™, and Precision AV LipSync™

Mosquito Noise Reduction

Video compression is a commonly used technique to squeeze more video content onto a disc, or beam down more channels via satellite, or transmit more channels over a cable. By using video compression content providers can achieve better economies of scale and offer the consumer more video content - e.g. more channels, bonus materials, etc. The problem with nearly all video compression methods is that too much of it causes compression artifacts. These artifacts are often seen by the viewer as ugly ringing around text letters or noise - often called mosquito noise.

To counter this Anchor Bay has developed a proprietary method of selectively removing mosquito noise. Unlike some methods of noise reduction that often makes the image worse by removing too much detail or causing blurring during motion, Anchor Bay's Mosquito Noise Reduction is designed to isolate the most objectionable of artifacts without removing detail or causing motion blur. To do this Anchor Bay had to devise a proprietary method of both isolating and predicting areas in the image where this noise is likely to occur. The end result is a highly effective noise reduction method that is impervious to motion, yet, largely maintains the integrity of the detail in the image through our conservative approach in removing video compression artifacts.

Images available here: http://www.anchorbaytech.com/support/faq/vp50pro.php#faq10

Fine Detail & Edge Enhancement

Sharpness controls are not new in the world of video - nearly every TV sold in the last 20 years features a sharpness control. However, sharpening controls merely accentuate medium detail at the expense of fine detail and often add horrible "halos" around the edges and lines. While this trick was a reasonable approach for standard definition TV, when screen sizes were well under 30 inches, today's large screen TVs and HDTVs have made traditional sharpness controls highly undesirable since the damage they cause is now magnified with such larger screens. In addition, traditional sharpening controls tend to exaggerate any noise in the image by making it more pronounced so noise becomes even more pronounced when viewed on a large screen HDTV.

Anchor Bay has designed Fine Detail & Edge Enhancement with large screen HDTVs in mind. Using patent pending technology, Fine Detail & Edge Enhancement is able to isolate areas of the image where hard edges are prevalent and increase fine details without adding halos or ringing. The net effect is quite extraordinary - images have more "pop" and fine detail such as blades of grass or even the pores on an actor's face are drawn out making your large screen HDTV even more enjoyable. Moreover, Mosquito Noise Reduction can be used to remove objectionable ringing and noise in the image before using Fine Detail & Edge Enhancement to draw out the fine details in the image.

Images available here: http://www.anchorbaytech.com/support/faq/vp50pro.php#faq10

Precision Deinterlacing™

Anchor Bay's 10-bit Precision Deinterlacing of standard and high definition delivers the image quality demanded by today's large-screen, high-resolution displays. It eliminates many of the artifacts found in common deinterlacers to produce a smooth image, free of artifacts such as jagged edges and combing. Precision Deinterlacing features five-field motion-adaptive deinterlacing and edge-adaptive processing for video sources, along with advanced cadence detection for film and animation sources. All processing is performed at full 10-bit resolution to preserve all the detail and subtle nuances in the video source. Edge-adaptive processing uses an adaptive, continuous-angle detection algorithm to accurately identify and smooth image edges.

Unique, "any-cadence" processing automatically locks to the wide variety of film and animation cadences found in current video sources, including non-standard cadences, and will track right through many types of "bad edits" and cadence changes. Precision Deinterlacing also features “Game Mode” with low-latency processing for maximum “playability”.

Precision Video Scaling™

Anchor Bay's 10-bit Precision Video Scaling technology is based on Anchor Bay's proprietary video scaling engine that can independently scale an image horizontally and vertically to achieve an outstanding picture quality for today's high resolution video displays. The scaling engine is completely flexible, accepting standard definition (480p, 576p) and high definition (720p, 1080i and 1080p) inputs and outputting the most popular resolutions from VGA (640x480) to 1080p (1920x1080). Since the scaling engine is completely flexible, other image manipulation features are also supported including zoom and pan.

PReP™, Progressive ReProcessing

Anchor Bay's Progressive ReProcessing (PReP™) is the video processing industry's first processing method that significantly improves progressive video signals and removes artifacts caused by inferior interlaced-to-progressive conversion.

Video signals that originate in an interlaced format are often degraded by artifacts incurred when the signal is converted from interlaced to progressive formats by general purpose chips in DVD players, AV receivers, and set-top boxes. Until now, there has been no way to improve these signals to optimize images on high-resolution displays. Poor interlaced-to-progressive conversion is especially problematic with large-screen HDTVs, as upscaling to higher resolutions often amplifies artifacts created in the conversion process, making them more noticeable.

As a solution to this problem, Anchor Bay introduces PReP, an advanced video processing technology that reverts the progressive video signal output from source equipment to its original interlaced format. PReP then converts the interlaced signal to progressive format, this time applying the source, edge, and motion adaptive algorithms in its Precision Deinterlacing™ technology to eliminate jaggies, combing, and other degrading effects. PReP technology in EDGE allows 480p and 576p to be processed by this method.

Progressive Cadence Detection™

Film-based content, which originated at 24 frames per second, is broadcast at 50 or 60Hz. Anchor Bay's Progressive Cadence Detection can lock on to the original 3:2 cadence in the broadcast, reacquiring the original 24 frames per second. This signal can then be output at a source-locked 24Hz eliminating the judder that existed in the original broadcast signal. Progressive Cadence Detection can be used with 480p, 576p, 720p and 1080p input signals.

RightRate™

Anchor Bay's RightRate technology converts the input frame rate to the optimal display frame rate without causing 'tearing' in the output frame. Anchor Bay's high performance frame rate conversion also supports converting film sources from 24 frames per second to 60 frames per second for NTSC format and from 25 frames per second to 50 frames per second for PAL/SECAM format.

AutoCUE-C™

Anchor Bay's AutoCUE-C technology automatically detects and removes chroma artifacts that are caused by incorrect upsampling of the chroma (color) signals by MPEG decoders in DVD players and satellite receivers. These artifacts are especially noticeable as horizontal streaks in images with highly saturated colors. When the artifacts are removed, the resulting picture quality is significantly improved, providing a much clearer and true-to-life image.

Precision AV Lipsync™

Anchor Bay's Precision AV LipSync technology is designed to automatically delay the audio signal to match the video processing delay in other Anchor Bay products. As a result, the AV Lipsync problem that is caused by video processing delay is eliminated. If required, the audio delay can also be further adjusted (up to 200 milliseconds) to correct any AV Lipsync problem that may be already be present in the AV source.

Q: What is 'Game Mode'?
A: This mode can reduce the amount of video delay to less than a single frame. In many competitive processors the effects of applying complex algorithms to the video image results in upwards of a seven frame delay. This can inhibit the real-time performance for gamers who want instantaneous response to react to stimuli and to realize peak performance from their application. The VRS Precision Deinterlacing™ Game Mode will reduce frame delay down to slightly less than one frame of video.


Q: What signals can the EDGE output?
A: EDGE has one HDMI 1.3 output that outputs both audio and video. The second HDMI output only carries audio, with blank 720p video, which is intended to carry audio to a connected Audio/Video Receiver. If your source has a DVI output (and no HDMI output), a DVI-to-HDMI adapter or cable will be needed to connect this source to the EDGE. The same is true, if your display does not have an HDMI input, but does have a DVI input. DVI does not carry audio, so for DVI sources/displays an alternative method of connecting audio must be used.

EDGE can automatically determine and output the ‘preferred’ format of the display by reading the EDID of the connected display. Some displays do not report the correct information in which case, the user can select one of the available output formats including VGA, 480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p and 1080p-24.


Q: Tell me more about the HDMI connections on EDGE
A: There are six HDMI inputs on EDGE (five on the back panel and one on the front). The HDMI inputs on EDGE can process 480i/p-60, 576i/p-50, 720p-50/60, 1080i-50/60, 1080p-24/25/50/60 and VGA/SVGA/XGA/SXGA@60Hz. The HDMI input and output connectors on the EDGE are backwards compatible with DVI-D inputs and outputs when used with an HDMI-to-DVI adapter or cable. Please note that DVI is a video-only connection that does not carry audio so an alternative method of connecting audio must be used.

Note that if you have an HDCP source and a non-HDCP display, you will probably not get a picture, whether or not you use EDGE.

Q: What kind of aspect ratio control does the EDGE offer?
A: EDGE offers full control over the input aspect ratio. There are 4 predefined input aspect ratio settings:

4:3 Full Frame: to watch 4:3 content while preserving the aspect ratio

4:3 Letterbox: to watch 4:3 Letterbox, non-anamorphic, content full screen with no geometric distortion on a 16:9 display.

4:3 Non-Linear Stretch (Panorama): to watch 4:3 content stretched to fill a 16:9 display. In this mode, the image is distorted such that most of the stretching occurs at the side of the image, not the center.

16:9 Full Frame: to watch 16:9 anamorphic content while preserving the aspect ratio. This mode can also be used to watch 4:3 content on a 16:9 screen, although the image will be stretched horizontally

You may also use the zoom and pan controls to customize the input aspect ratio to your tastes. This allows the user to reformat the image in any way desired, so the EDGE doesn't enforce a set of fixed aspect ratios.

If you would like to zoom in on the image to remove the small black letterbox bars found with a 1.85:1 source on a 16:9 display, then you can simply do this with the direct access ‘Zoom -/+’ controls on the remote control or via the graphical user interface, GUI.

Q: What audio formats can the EDGE support?
A: EDGE has three audio outputs: the HDMI audio/video output, the dedicated HDMI 1.3 audio only output and the optical digital output. If a source connected using HDMI is outputting high bit-rate audio, Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio, and EDGE is connected to an AV Receiver or Processor that supports these formats they will be passed through with the proper amount of delay to be in sync with the processed video. If the optical output is used with a source that supports high bit-rate audio, EDGE will communicate with the source to output an audio format that the optical connection is capable of carrying, stereo PCM or Dolby Digital/DTS. Audio that is input via the analog inputs can be output over HDMI or optical.
There are some HDMI sources that do not output the correct audio signal when connected to an HDMI repeater, like an AV receiver or video processor. In these instances, we recommend that use an alternative method of sending audio, like the optical or coaxial digital audio outputs.

The audio section of EDGE supports S/PDIF and PCM formatted audio with sample rates ranging from 24kHz to 192kHz. It will likely handle sample rates beyond this range, but is only guaranteed to support sample rates within this range. The EDGE will pass digital audio having any bit-depth resolution up to 24 bits, at all supported sample rates.

EDGE will also pass compressed digital audio (e.g. Dolby Digital or DTS) provided the audio bitstream has been properly formatted for S/PDIF (IEC60958 or EIAJ-CP1201 standard) transmission by the digital audio source (according to international standard IEC61937). The EDGE does not alter the sample rate, format, or content of the digital audio whatsoever; it merely inserts a programmable delay into the transmission path.

Users should take care to use proper digital audio cables in order to guarantee valid audio reception and re-transmission. Both coax and optical cables should have high-quality, positive mating connectors at both ends. Coax cables should have a 75-ohm characteristic impedance. The use of couplers or other types of adapters to extend the digital audio cabling is not recommended.

Q: Tell me more about the lipsync correction on EDGE
A: EDGE has 4 discrete digital audio inputs (3 optical and 1 coaxial) and 1 analog audio input (L/R) each of which can be assigned to any of the video inputs. The HDMI 1.3 inputs can also accept audio, if the video signal is on the same input. EDGE is also compatible with high bit-rate audio, like Dolby TrueHD and DTS-Master Audio. If the incoming HDMI signal has HDCP, then EDGE can not output this audio using the optical or coaxial digital outputs, only the HDMI output. When you switch to a particular video input, then the audio input which has been user-assigned to that video input will also be selected. For example, when you switch to Video, then the audio input which has been user-assigned to Video will also be selected.

The digital audio outputs provide a delay which matches the video processing delay of EDGE. Note that this delay will vary depending on the current configuration and processing mode of EDGE. 50 Hz sources will require a different amount of delay than 60 Hz sources, and frame rate conversion requires more delay than no frame rate conversion.

The correct audio delay for all inputs is set automatically, so you need to do nothing extra to match audio and video delays. In addition, there is a user-adjustable delay which can be added or subtracted on top of the automatically set delay for problem sources.

Anchor Bay's digital audio technology is called "Precision AV Lipsync™".


Q: Does EDGE have an On Screen Display (OSD)?
A: Yes, there is a very intuitive OSD that allows you to control all of the major parameters: output resolution, aspect ratio, picture controls, and audio delay. There are hints available with all controls to assist inexperienced users.

Q: How does EDGE detect incoming signals?
A: EDGE has been designed to detect which of the ten possible input devices is turned on and is generating an active signal, and then to automatically switch to that input. With this capability, you can switch inputs simply by turning one input device on or by turning another device off.

EDGE also includes an "Input Priority" option which specifies which of the inputs to use when they are multiple active inputs.

Q: What kind of power supply does EDGE have?
A: The EDGE comes with a universal internal power supply, which accepts 100-240 VAC at 50/60Hz.

Q: Will the EDGE improve the picture quality of standard definition channels from my satellite system (DSS)?
A: Picture improvement of heavily compressed standard, and even high, definition satellite channels is often very subjective, and depends to a great deal on exactly which aspects of the image are objectionable. The EDGE does incorporate three new technologies that do specifically address this issue: Mosquito Noise Reduction, Fine Detail Enhancement and Edge Enhancement.

One artifact of compression is mosquito noise. This kind of compression noise is apparent along the edges of compressed images, especially text. Anchor Bay's Mosquito Noise Reduction can significantly reduce this noise providing an appreciably better picture. Additionally, Anchor Bay's Fine Detail Enhancement can extract fine details in the image that were masked by this compression. Finally, Anchor Bay's Edge Enhancement can improve the perceived sharpness of the image without adding additional ringing.


Q: What does the color of the power LED on EDGE mean?
A: EDGE power LED color table:

LED Description
No LED = Standby Mode
Red/Solid = No Signal Received
Green/Solid = Unknown/Unsupported Signal Received
Blue/Solid = The EDGE is processing the input


Specifications and features subject to change without notice.

DVDO and DVDO EDGE are trademarks of Anchor Bay Technologies.

When do you expect to start shipping these?

Impressive features at an impressive price... :eek:

How would this hold up to the Reon in my Onkyo 875? Blows it out of the water? Not as good? Slightly worse? Slightly better?

Should this unit have better performance than a VP20 with ABT102? It does seem to have more advanced features...

All I want is the best picture quality within this price range. Able to output 1366x768 and 1360x768 over HDMI is also a major factor me for.

My options were a VP20 w/102 and Gefen with Realta (who knows when :rolleyes: ). Now this too. :( I was just thinking today, why video processors aren't hitting this price target.

I guess we will have to wait and see how it performs. An ETA would be nice... :)

Looking forward to seeing more! However, this:

480p-60 (720x480@60Hz)
720p-60 (1280x720@60Hz)
1080i-60 (1920x1080@60Hz)
1080p-60 (1920x1080@60Hz)

576p-50 (720x576@50Hz)
720p-50 (1280x720@50Hz)
1080i-50 (1920x1080@50Hz)
1080p-50 (1920x1080@50Hz)

1080p-24 (1920x1080@24Hz)

VGA (640x480@60Hz)
bothers me. Are you limited to these presets or can you customize resolutions? No love for plasma/oddball lcd? and only 1 VGA resolution?

I would love to feed my display its native resolution (1366) with this guy--hope there's customizations available. (and yes, my set accepts 1366 x 768 over HDMI and DVI without scaling--rare it seems)

allright!!
re output aspect ratio controls.
is there a setting for the vertical stretch needed for a lens based 2.35:1 cih setup?
i went thru post twice but saw no reference to said subject.
or could it be done from input a/r controls?

T.I.A.

So the $799 question: if your display size is among the EDGE's presets, and you don't need SDI, is there any reason to get a VP50Pro over the EDGE?

This sounds perfect for someone with a 1080p panel display.

--Andre

EDGE is capable of detecting the "preferred" format that is reported by a display in its EDID. If that "preferred" format is not one of the default formats supported by EDGE (480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, or VGA) it can still be selected using the 'Auto' Output Format selection option. So if you have a 1920x1200 display that reports that 1920x1200 is the "preferred" format (which most PC monitors do) you will be able to output this resolution from your EDGE. If your display is a 1366x768 LCD that reports that its "preferred" format is 720p you will not be able to output the native resolution of this display.

There is no custom output timing option, like the VP30/VP50/VP50PRO have, on EDGE.

Looks like this is targeted towards newer 1080p sets and not older 768p sets.
The VP line will handle those.
Awesome features for the price though.
This will set the new price vs performance bar very high.

Availability date?

It's nice that ABT has finally decided to upgrade their remote design to a backlit one. I've always found it ironic that one of my more expensive components has one of the cheapest looking remotes. Then again I've mapped out most of my favorite buttons onto my receiver's remote, and maybe ABT rightly assumed that most of us wouldn't use the supplied remote.

I'm really glad that the Edge is incorporating HDMI 1.3 since I am amongst those who currently has to choose between no bitstream to my receiver or placing the receiver before the DVDO and forgoing lipsynch and auto switching. I for one am too lazy to adjust the audio delay each time my resolution changes and really like auto switching (I hope this will be an included feature) so am currently passing LPCM over HDMI. This would be the biggest reason for me to upgrade since I recently bought a Algolith Flea (instead of upgrading to the Pro) for noise reduction.

I also wonder what advantages the VP20/30/50 still have over the Edge and might be amongst those who make the upgrade. I notice that the Edge has far fewer non HDMI ins listed, but this isn't a problem since my LD player is the only thing that I have that doesn't have HDMI. I also don't see test pattens listed, but assume it was just forgotten on the list since it is an easy feature to include.

Is having an internal power supply an upgrade? I am amongst the many who had my power supply die on me and had to buy a replacement. Wouldn't having an internal supply raise the temperature? I assume that the Edge will be a fanless system.

allright!!
re output aspect ratio controls.
is there a setting for the vertical stretch needed for a lens based 2.35:1 cih setup?
i went thru post twice but saw no reference to said subject.
or could it be done from input a/r controls?

A 33% vertical stretch can be accomplished by using the Vertical Zoom control on the input.

I also don't see test pattens listed, but assume it was just forgotten on the list since it is an easy feature to include.

There are no internal test patterns included in EDGE.

Is having an internal power supply an upgrade? I am amongst the many who had my power supply die on me and had to buy a replacement. Wouldn't having an internal supply raise the temperature? I assume that the Edge will be a fanless system.

The internal power supply on EDGE is very robust. EDGE is fanless and there are no issues with heat on EDGE .

So I may sale my 50pro and get the EDGE. Is there any reason not to? :eek:

If tradition holds it won't be out until November. Does that sound about right?

You have my attention. How do the chips in the EDGE compare to the purported Gefen TV Pro?

So I may sale my 50pro and get the EDGE. Is there any reason not to? :eek:

EDGE is based on our ABT2010 ASIC which has all of the technology currently in the VP50PRO. VP50PRO is based on FPGAs which can be updated with new algorithms not available on our ABT2010. That is as much as I am going to say right now.

If tradition holds it won't be out until November. Does that sound about right?

Stay tuned for a special "Public Beta" offer that should appear in the 'Sticky' section. I think you will be surprised how close we are to the EDGE. :D

Great. I will be more than happy to BETA test for you... :)

See my sticky on the top of the forum about beta testers!! :)

Any questons, let me know.

Josh, will it have the ability to output a zoomed out 2.35 image and than instantly shrink it for 16x9 material like the 50 can?

How would this hold up to the Reon in my Onkyo 875? Blows it out of the water? Not as good? Slightly worse? Slightly better?

loads better, not even close

-Gary

Wow, that is an insanely good deal. I'll probably be keeping my VP50Pro, but I have to wonder if DVDO will release a new VP model after this since the Edge will be so inexpensive and will do all the essentials of the Pro.

I can't imagine too many people will be interested in paying $2000+ for a high-end processor from here on, DVDO or otherwise. But I hope DVDO will try and lure more customers with improvements to the Pro.

I will be curious to see how it performs against the 50pro. I will also second Gary and say the REON in the Onkyo/Integra units will not even come close... ;)

EDGE is based on our ABT2010 ASIC which has all of the technology currently in the VP50PRO. VP50PRO is based on FPGAs which can be updated with new algorithms not available on our ABT2010. That is as much as I am going to say right now.

:eek:

And the downside is...? (besides no custom res.) This looks like hella performance for the price.

wow this is awesome!

Any possibility that the Edge could be upgraded with Test Patterns and Color Management adjustments in the future (I see there is a Service Port on the back)?

I think that these are the only things stopping this from being an absolute killer product (at present its just a killer!)

Paul

Josh wrote:
> Progressive Cadence Detection™

Film-based content, which originated at 24 frames per second, is broadcast at 50 or 60Hz. Anchor Bay's Progressive Cadence Detection can lock on to the original 3:2 cadence in the broadcast, reacquiring the original 24 frames per second. This signal can then be output at a source-locked 24Hz eliminating the judder that existed in the original broadcast signal. Progressive ReProcessing can be used with 480p, 576p, 720p and 1080p input signals. <

Bolding added by me. The first (PReP) looks like it got misplaced. The second (1080p) doesn't make much sense in the context of "Film-based content, which originated at 24 frames per second, is broadcast at 50 or 60Hz...", since no content is broadcast at 1080p.

- Tim

Hmm how would this perform on my Pioneer 5080XD vs. a Lumagen HDP?

Will the missing 1366*768 be an issue with my display?

Otherwise it sure sounds like a steal.

I wish I had seen this before I bought my new AVR. But I'm still interested.

When can we expect to be able to purchase one?

DVDO, AVS for starters...

Would definitely consider this for my 1080p fixed pixel displays. Is beta testing restricted to US only or can we in Australia join too?

EDIT- Nevermind, found the sticky.

What cosmetic/hardware differences are there in the beta and production models?

Will this product have the ability to turn off Progressive Cadence Detection for lower latency gaming with progressive-source game consoles?

EDGE is capable of detecting the "preferred" format that is reported by a display in its EDID. If that "preferred" format is not one of the default formats supported by EDGE (480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, or VGA) it can still be selected using the 'Auto' Output Format selection option. So if you have a 1920x1200 display that reports that 1920x1080 is the "preferred" format (which most PC monitors do) you will be able to output this resolution from your EDGE. If your display is a 1366x768 LCD that reports that its "preferred" format is 720p you will not be able to output the native resolution of this display.

There is no custom output timing option, like the VP30/VP50/VP50PRO have, on EDGE.Thanks for clarifying this Josh. Incredible value regardless. Would you consider adding 1366 resolutions? Is it even possible at this stage? It will be a mute issue when I finally pull the trigger on a native 1080p set, but until then it sure would be nice to have a 1366 preset if custom resolutions aren't possible.

Can't see a sales related reason to omit it--is this a technical issue? (thanks in advance for expanding upon your original statement--if you can)

Custom timings and resolutions...I could be way off on this but I'm betting that somewhere down the road firmwares could enable those features.

From where I sit, it's obvious that this thing is VP50 Jr. with some nice twists that even those units don't have.

I'm stunned at how robust the features are given this price point in contrast with those 50 series units. This thing's really close!

Clearly a giant killer in the makings.

My best guess is that when the final Edge streets we'll see price drops on the other DVDO units and firmwares and nice things like that.

It's really amazing how "close" to the 50 series these things are, at least according to Josh's opening post with the planned specs. I'd have to believe that the 50's would see a price drop right away when the final Edge streets.

I guess this news kills 90% of Gefen Realta sales... (it should, at least!)

The Gefen is still nice for us plasma owners. $100 cheaper too. Realta's no slouch. ;)

If this DVDO offered 1360x768, 1365x768 and 1366x768 scaling, I wouldn't think twice.

I guess this news kills 90% of Gefen Realta sales... (it should, at least!)

I think it stalls sales for everyone, including DVDO themselves. ;)

Again, specs can always change, but as best I can see...this Edge is purported to have a LOT of the same features that the far more expensive 50 series units have.

I'm thrilled about this in general because quite frankly, this market has been WAY overdue for an outright giant killer to finally shake things up.



The Gefen is still nice for us plasma owners. $100 cheaper too. Realta's no slouch. ;)

If this DVDO offered 1360x768, 1365x768 and 1366x768 scaling, I wouldn't think twice.

I bet it'll see firmware down the road that'll enable those features.

Will the DVDO upgrade program apply to the Edge? I JUST ordered a VP50 and I'd like to know that if the general consensus once this is released is that it outclasses the VP50 in critical areas that I could upgrade if I choose. Or would this be a downgrade? Eh, I'm kinda new to this stuff.

I'm expecting to be in home theater heaven when my VP50 comes though, so maybe I'll forget all about the Edge...

Keep in mind that this is a fixed chip design so features can not be added later--only bug fixes as Josh said.

The value of the VP series and other higher priced processors on the market lies in the range of customization and control that is possible. Some need this capability.

However many do not and this product is for them.

Keep in mind that this is a fixed chip design so features can not be added later--only bug fixes as Josh said.

This is why I'll be praying they add plasma resolutons before release. :o

I guess this news kills 90% of Gefen Realta sales... (it should, at least!)

IMO, the constantly changing release date of the Gefen Realta did that already.

When will some company other than Lumagen offer advanced gamut and gamma controls?

When will some company other than Lumagen offer advanced gamut and gamma controls?

I got a feeling its coming to the Pro...

so this one is probably not for anyone using a 1024x768 pdp, correct?:(

The advantage that you have is that the vp50
(and pro) is available NOW. Who knows when this will be available other than to beta testers. I loved my VP50 except except for the fact that it sucked passing the newer audio codecs. Video wise it was great!
Good luck!
ChrisWill the DVDO upgrade program apply to the Edge? I JUST ordered a VP50 and I'd like to know that if the general consensus once this is released is that it outclasses the VP50 in critical areas that I could upgrade if I choose. Or would this be a downgrade? Eh, I'm kinda new to this stuff.

I'm expecting to be in home theater heaven when my VP50 comes though, so maybe I'll forget all about the Edge...

Any possibility that the Edge could be upgraded with Test Patterns and Color Management adjustments in the future (I see there is a Service Port on the back)?

I think that these are the only things stopping this from being an absolute killer product (at present its just a killer!)

Paul

EDGE is not intended to be a technology platform like our VP line products. We have no intention of adding Color Management to EDGE before it goes to production (or after it is in production).

the beta tester thread referred me to here, then here must go back to the sticky? so...infinite loop ?!

Josh, will it have the ability to output a zoomed out 2.35 image and than instantly shrink it for 16x9 material like the 50 can?

I am not quite sure what you mean by this. What is the application?

the beta tester thread referred me to here, then here must go back to the sticky? so...infinite loop ?!

The Beta Tester thread refers you to this thread if you would like more information about EDGE. If you would like to submit the questionnaire to be a Public Beta tester you must go to: www.dvdo.com/edge

I am not quite sure what you mean by this. What is the application?

Sorry Josh... its hard to explain.

I have a 2.35 screen and zoom out a 2.35 image to fit it. I set display to 16x9 and screen to 2.35. I now just simply set the input aspect ratio to whatever setting the movie is and everything fits perfectly on my screen without the use of a lens.

This is why I'll be praying they add plasma resolutons before release. :o
I really doubt this is going to happen because these signal types are not video standards like 1080p, 1080i, 720p, etc.

The required signal timings for 1366x768 (for example) vary *a lot* between display manufacturers -- there is no one "1366x768 signal" that will work for everyone. (I made this mistake when I bought a VP20; it *looked* like it had the preset resolution I needed, but it didn't work with my display at all.)

By sticking to just the standard signal types, DVDO avoids this can of worms entirely.

So I don't derail the VP50 pro thread:

why don't people wait and see a Edge before they try and compare it to the VP50pro :rolleyes:

-Gary

Specs can always change but it's obvious the Edge is being set up as a giant killer and if you've looked carefully at Josh's opening post in that Edge thread, it has to stun you how many of the features from the 50's are set to be in this Edge unit for a fraction of the price.

I think Gary J. is dead on. I bet when the final Edge streets, we see price drops on the other units, for starters.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1051294

You sign up for the Beta yet? ;)

The response:

again pure speculation Q

BTW this is the VP50pro thread guys ;)

-Gary

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1051246

Read Josh's post that opens this very thread up. How much of that is "speculation?" How much of my previous post is just "speculation?"

Please be as specific as you can. Direct quotes would be ideal.

The facts couldn't be more clear: That product, those specs, at a list of $800 is a giant killer.

It's enough of a giant killer that I can't imagine that DVDO doesn't consider a price drop on some of their other products when Edge hits the streets in a few months or whenever it is. Compare the specs that Josh cites in the first post here vs. those of the VP50 and VP50 Pro and then think about the huge price differences between those vs. the Edge.

Something's got to give. ;)

Typically with electronics: They go down in price as times goes by anyways.

I really doubt this is going to happen because these signal types are not video standards like 1080p, 1080i, 720p, etc.

The required signal timings for 1366x768 (for example) vary *a lot* between display manufacturers -- there is no one "1366x768 signal" that will work for everyone. (I made this mistake when I bought a VP20; it *looked* like it had the preset resolution I needed, but it didn't work with my display at all.)

By sticking to just the standard signal types, DVDO avoids this can of worms entirely.

Thanks for that, I wasn't aware they differed. Now I know why the Gefen has 2 different 1366x768 and others too.

So I don't derail the VP50 pro thread:



Specs can always change but it's obvious the Edge is being set up as a giant killer and if you've looked carefully at Josh's opening post in that Edge thread, it has to stun you how many of the features from the 50's are set to be in this Edge unit for a fraction of the price.

I think Gary J. is dead on. I bet when the final Edge streets, we see price drops on the other units, for starters.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1051294

You sign up for the Beta yet? ;)

The response:



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1051246

Read Josh's post that opens this very thread up. How much of that is "speculation?" How much of my previous post is just "speculation?"

Please be as specific as you can. Direct quotes would be ideal.

The facts couldn't be more clear: That product, those specs, at a list of $800 is a giant killer.

It's enough of a giant killer that I can't imagine that DVDO doesn't consider a price drop on some of their other products when Edge hits the streets in a few months or whenever it is. Compare the specs that Josh cites in the first post here vs. those of the VP50 and VP50 Pro and then think about the huge price differences between those vs. the Edge.

Something's got to give. ;)

Typically with electronics: They go down in price as times goes by anyways.

I am sure Josh will address your concerns, I am not at liberty to nor can I answer for DVDO's intention or plans :)

but on the other hand I am sure Josh will tell you that the Edge is not to replace the VP50pro, nor would it be a giant killer of their own product, the VP50pro is in fact a giant ;) , it remains to be seen publicly how the Edge stacks up in a multitude of areas that specs don't always explain

-Gary

I am sure Josh will address your concerns, I am not at liberty to nor can I answer for DVDO's intention or plans :)

*quietly slips briefcase under table*

You sure? :p



but on the other hand I am sure Josh will tell you that the Edge is not to replace the VP50pro,

Of course not! I certainly wasn't suggesting that!

... nor would it be a giant killer of their own product, the VP50pro is in fact a giant ;) , it remains to be seen publicly how the Edge stacks up in a multitude of areas that specs don't always explain

-Gary

Agreed.

Somewhere in my previous post perhaps I should have been more specific, like: "The Edge is poised to potentially be a giant killer."

Better? ;)

Thanks for that, I wasn't aware they differed. Now I know why the Gefen has 2 different 1366x768 and others too.

Hothersale is exactly right.

There are no standards for 1366x768 (or 1360x768). In our VP line products we have 4 presets to handle these resolutions and the user may be forced to change sync polarity or horizontally/vertically shift the image to get 1:1. Most users do not want to go through this kind of advanced setup and these displays are becoming less and less popular.

Sorry Josh... its hard to explain.

I have a 2.35 screen and zoom out a 2.35 image to fit it. I set display to 16x9 and screen to 2.35. I now just simply set the input aspect ratio to whatever setting the movie is and everything fits perfectly on my screen without the use of a lens.

This can be accomplished using the input aspect ratio of EDGE but it is not as easy as it is on the VP50PRO which has specific features (Output Aspect Ratio controls for Display and Screen) which EDGE does not.

so this one is probably not for anyone using a 1024x768 pdp, correct?:(

You won't get 1:1 pixel mapping, so your display will be applying its own scaling on top of the EDGE's. But you still do benefit from what is probably the best deinterlacing in the world, as well as the MNR, cadence detection, etc. of the EDGE.

--Andre

Will this product have the ability to turn off Progressive Cadence Detection for lower latency gaming with progressive-source game consoles?

OK, I feel a little left out that mine didn't get answered! :eek:

This is really the make or break feature for the EDGE becoming the ultimate HT Gaming accessory.

OK, I feel a little left out that mine didn't get answered! :eek:

This is really the make or break feature for the EDGE becoming the ultimate HT Gaming accessory.

You want to know if this is what happens when in game mode, correct?

Game Mode with very low latency (sub-1 frame delay)

For people interested in ordering now, they are running a beta program. It is $500 (see sticky at the top of this forum). Follow the instructions and you can get in on the beta program!

Thanks!

You want to know if this is what happens when in game mode, correct?

The Game Mode is a deinterlacing mode, which means not available when using Progressive input sources. Both the VP50 and VP50Pro suffered from this foible, which meant that you could play games lag-free at 480i but if you had any sources at 480p, 720p, 1080p (Wii, PS3, XBox 360), they would lag by three frames due to cadence detection that couldn't be turned off.

The VP50Pro corrected this issue with a firmware update (allowing you to turn off cadence detection), but the VP50 never got this feature AFAIK making it a total joke as an HT Gaming device. I sold my VP50 and "upgraded" to a VP30 with ABT102d to work around this!

I hope that DVDO can overcome this hurdle with the EDGE and create a truly end-all HT Gaming product. Perhaps a "Game Mode" for Progressive sources could be selectable to ensure that cadence detection is disabled.

Didn't the VP50 (non pro) get the "cadence detection off" function quite recently with the last FW upgrade ? I think so.

"Game Mode" on EDGE is different than the Game Modes on VP20/VP30/VP50/VP50PRO. The VP line of products have two different deinterlacing modes called "Game Mode 1" and "Game Mode 2". EDGE has a mode called "Game Mode" that allows a user to define whether or not a game console is connected on a specific input. Once this mode is applied the deinterlacing mode that will be used on that input (for interlaced sources) is "Game Mode 1" additionally if the input is progressive, Progressive Cadence Detection will be turned off on that input.

Didn't the VP50 (non pro) get the "cadence detection off" function quite recently with the last FW upgrade ? I think so.
Yes, it did.

Josh wrote:
> EDGE is not intended to be a technology platform like our VP line products. We have no intention of adding Color Management to EDGE before it goes to production (or after it is in production). <

I know manufacturers (and Product Managers :)) like to make lists of what their products CAN do, versus what they CAN'T, and you did a great job of that with the initial post. But to avoid a gazillion questions about "can it do this and that", as well as assumptions some will make "I'm sure it will have Test Patterns", it might be a good idea to outline the boundaries for this new product more clearly, so that potential users can decide more easily if it fits their needs.

E.g., you could start with:
- no color management
- no test patterns
- no support for 768p plasmas
- limitations on preset adjustability
- etc.

Comments like Andre's about ancillary benefits, e.g. in spite of lacking 1:1 mapping, would also be very appropriate. Or, instead of making a list of NOT this and that, phrase it as a list of features that go beyond it's intended purpose (removes all the negative prefixes).

I don't see any reason why making the reasons more obvious why someone might prefer a VP-series product wouldn't be a good thing. While the Edge may be a fantastic product at a breakthough price, it's not going to be all things to all people, and avoiding a lot of speculation and disappointment should be a good thing. Otherwise, we're going to see the next 100 pages of discussion fill up fast.

- Tim

"Game Mode" on EDGE is different than the Game Modes on VP20/VP30/VP50/VP50PRO. The VP line of products have two different deinterlacing modes called "Game Mode 1" and "Game Mode 2". EDGE has a mode called "Game Mode" that allows a user to define whether or not a game console is connected on a specific input. Once this mode is applied the deinterlacing mode that will be used on that input (for interlaced sources) is "Game Mode 1" additionally if the input is progressive, Progressive Cadence Detection will be turned off on that input.
Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to clarify this feature. Sounds spot-on perfect to me.


Didn't the VP50 (non pro) get the "cadence detection off" function quite recently with the last FW upgrade ? I think so.
Yes, it did.
Cool, haven't been keeping up with the VP50 updates since I sold mine. Better late than never.

"Game Mode" on EDGE is different than the Game Modes on VP20/VP30/VP50/VP50PRO. The VP line of products have two different deinterlacing modes called "Game Mode 1" and "Game Mode 2". EDGE has a mode called "Game Mode" that allows a user to define whether or not a game console is connected on a specific input. Once this mode is applied the deinterlacing mode that will be used on that input (for interlaced sources) is "Game Mode 1" additionally if the input is progressive, Progressive Cadence Detection will be turned off on that input.

What about combo game/film devices like the PS3? If the Game mode is tied to an input, then I hope it is easy to turn on/off (remote button or code?). I watch BluRays and play games on my PS3.

It's enough of a giant killer that I can't imagine that DVDO doesn't consider a price drop on some of their other products when Edge hits the streets in a few months or whenever it is. Compare the specs that Josh cites in the first post here vs. those of the VP50 and VP50 Pro and then think about the huge price differences between those vs. the Edge.

Something's got to give. ;)

I'm not so sure. Time will tell, but basically, if the EDGE covers your needs (it does have features that the VP50 doesn't), why would you care if a VP50 was 2x or 3x the price? You wouldn't buy the VP50 anyway, even if the price increase diminished. Likewise, if the EDGE does not cover your needs (say you need custom resolutions), would you buy it just because it is cheap? They are different products for different markets. Obviously the EDGE will take away _a lot_ of the VP50 sales, because a lot of the VP50 buyers really don't need the flexibility etc. that the VP50 has to offer. But that's a calculated risk. Now that the EDGE _IS_ here (well, will be), and it will take away some VP50 sales, all DVDO can do about it is make sure they make the most of it - and I'm not sure they will maximize their income by bringing down the price of the VP series.

If anything, the EDGE slowing down sales of the VP series might make the VP's even more of a niche product, making the need for higher margins on this product even higher.

I do suspect that the VP line would be cut in numbers though. With the recent price cut of the VP50, is there really a need for a VP30? (in this country at least, VP30 + ABT102 is MORE than a VP50...) And the VP20, most people in the target group will buy an EDGE instead. My guess (!) would be that the line will be cut down to EDGE, VP50 and VP50Pro, with the latter two remaining at the current price points.

Anyone respond to the beta tester survey and get an out of office reply in their email inbox? (out of office until 7/28)

I just want to make sure it is definitely received as Jason's sticky indicates I will know something in about 3 days.

Josh wrote:
> EDGE is not intended to be a technology platform like our VP line products. We have no intention of adding Color Management to EDGE before it goes to production (or after it is in production). <

I know manufacturers (and Product Managers :)) like to make lists of what their products CAN do, versus what they CAN'T, and you did a great job of that with the initial post. But to avoid a gazillion questions about "can it do this and that", as well as assumptions some will make "I'm sure it will have Test Patterns", it might be a good idea to outline the boundaries for this new product more clearly, so that potential users can decide more easily if it fits their needs.

E.g., you could start with:
- no color management
- no test patterns
- no support for 768p plasmas
- limitations on preset adjustability
- etc.

Comments like Andre's about ancillary benefits, e.g. in spite of lacking 1:1 mapping, would also be very appropriate. Or, instead of making a list of NOT this and that, phrase it as a list of features that go beyond it's intended purpose (removes all the negative prefixes).

I don't see any reason why making the reasons more obvious why someone might prefer a VP-series product wouldn't be a good thing. While the Edge may be a fantastic product at a breakthough price, it's not going to be all things to all people, and avoiding a lot of speculation and disappointment should be a good thing. Otherwise, we're going to see the next 100 pages of discussion fill up fast.

- TimA great idea, and very well said.

EDGE is not intended to be a technology platform like our VP line products. We have no intention of adding Color Management to EDGE before it goes to production (or after it is in production).


Thanks for the clarification Josh.

I have to say, it is one VERY nice looking processor and to say its fully loaded is an understatement!


Paul

Anyone respond to the beta tester survey and get an out of office reply in their email inbox? (out of office until 7/28)

I just want to make sure it is definitely received as Jason's sticky indicates I will know something in about 3 days.

Yeah, I got one of those after beta signup, I sent an email to the edge beta email address and got a reply from the person who was "out of the office" saying that the auto-responder was not supposed to be on.

Anyone respond to the beta tester survey and get an out of office reply in their email inbox? (out of office until 7/28)

I just want to make sure it is definitely received as Jason's sticky indicates I will know something in about 3 days.

I got the same out-of-office auto-reply messages from two different anchorbay email addresses. Hopefully, the completed survey was automatically emailed to multiple anchorbay folks.:)

deleted because it was off topic

I really doubt this is going to happen because these signal types are not video standards like 1080p, 1080i, 720p, etc.

The required signal timings for 1366x768 (for example) vary *a lot* between display manufacturers -- there is no one "1366x768 signal" that will work for everyone. (I made this mistake when I bought a VP20; it *looked* like it had the preset resolution I needed, but it didn't work with my display at all.)

By sticking to just the standard signal types, DVDO avoids this can of worms entirely.

Or may be not
Josh said it would apply prefered res in EDID.So EDID-emulators may work.
http://www.spatz-tech.com/spatz/hdmiwizard.htm

Josh wrote:
> EDGE is not intended to be a technology platform like our VP line products. We have no intention of adding Color Management to EDGE before it goes to production (or after it is in production). <

I know manufacturers (and Product Managers :)) like to make lists of what their products CAN do, versus what they CAN'T, and you did a great job of that with the initial post. But to avoid a gazillion questions about "can it do this and that", as well as assumptions some will make "I'm sure it will have Test Patterns", it might be a good idea to outline the boundaries for this new product more clearly, so that potential users can decide more easily if it fits their needs.

E.g., you could start with:
- no color management
- no test patterns
- no support for 768p plasmas
- limitations on preset adjustability
- etc.

Comments like Andre's about ancillary benefits, e.g. in spite of lacking 1:1 mapping, would also be very appropriate. Or, instead of making a list of NOT this and that, phrase it as a list of features that go beyond it's intended purpose (removes all the negative prefixes).

I don't see any reason why making the reasons more obvious why someone might prefer a VP-series product wouldn't be a good thing. While the Edge may be a fantastic product at a breakthough price, it's not going to be all things to all people, and avoiding a lot of speculation and disappointment should be a good thing. Otherwise, we're going to see the next 100 pages of discussion fill up fast.

- Tim

^^ I definitely second this request, please. :)

Anyone respond to the beta tester survey and get an out of office reply in their email inbox? (out of office until 7/28)

I just want to make sure it is definitely received as Jason's sticky indicates I will know something in about 3 days.

Your questionnaire was received and we will get back to you.

Per several requests I have added a PDF that compares EDGE to the VP50PRO and VP50 to the opening post of this thread.

Thanks Josh, that's very helpful.

So what are the differences between beta and production cosmetics/hardware?

This can be accomplished using the input aspect ratio of EDGE but it is not as easy as it is on the VP50PRO which has specific features (Output Aspect Ratio controls for Display and Screen) which EDGE does not.

Thanks Josh

Thanks Josh, that's very helpful.

So what are the differences between beta and production cosmetics/hardware?

The hardware of the Beta units is exactly the same as production units. The chassis (cosmetics) of Beta units is different from production units in that the plastics on the front of the the production units will have a higher quality finish on them.

You won't get 1:1 pixel mapping, so your display will be applying its own scaling on top of the EDGE's. But you still do benefit from what is probably the best deinterlacing in the world, as well as the MNR, cadence detection, etc. of the EDGE.

--Andre

thanks, i need to check out some of the other dvdo products i guess, it just seems that they may be out of my price range.

i see that the dvdo vp20 supports 1024x768 under "pc resolutions," is this only through "pc" inputs or will it output this through hdmi?

i see that the dvdo vp20 supports 1024x768 under "pc resolutions," is this only through "pc" inputs or will it output this through hdmi?

This is supported on both analog and digital, HDMI, outputs.

> Per several requests I have added a PDF that compares EDGE to the VP50PRO and VP50 <

Thanks for the quick response on that, Josh.

- Tim

Comparison PDF is nice. It shows how serious DVDO is about the performance of The Edge. Still though, you can see where it is not for the serious VP crowd. I still would really like to put one in my set up and see just how well it performs with my vast assortment of components... :)

DVDO did receive quite a few inquiries. Not sure why the autoreply, but if anyone is concerned, feel free to email me at jason@avscience.com and I can confirm that you are on the list.

Thanks!

I, for one, think the HDMI Audio Only feature of the EDGE is one of the best features! :)

I am seriously looking at getting a VP50Pro, but since there is only one HDMI output I still haven't quite figured out how to get the higher resolution audio into a receiver without corrupting the video.

To bad the HDMI Audio Only feature can't be added to the VP50Pro.

-EmoryS

Per several requests I have added a PDF that compares EDGE to the VP50PRO and VP50 to the opening post of this thread.

Comparison PDF is nice. It shows how serious DVDO is about the performance of The Edge. Still though, you can see where it is not for the serious VP crowd. I still would really like to put one in my set up and see just how well it performs with my vast assortment of components... :)

The PDF is very helpful.

All I can say is, on paper, it's still pretty remarkable how much territory the Edge does indeed cover considering the price points across the product line.

I really do think 2 HDMI outs should be standard and I think that's huge here for the Edge.

I concur. When I saw that dual HDMI output feature last week I was quite impressed. Well thought out for sure.

A 33% vertical stretch can be accomplished by using the Vertical Zoom control on the input.
To clarify on the 2.35:1 question. If I understand correctly, the EDGE will only allow a zoom as compared to a stretch that would be on the VP line. Correct?

Josh,

Can you post the promotional PDF you just sent out to retailers?

Also, can you say a little more about the Black Bar eliminator feature?

Thanks!

Ouch. I see that it is limited to standard resolutions at only 60 Hz output (50 Hz for PAL) in addition to 24 Hz. This is definitely not being marketted for us CRT projector fanboys, or indeed, for anyone with a display that is not natively 1920x1080 or 1280x720 (which is most people since most HD displays are not natively at a standard resolution!). I bought my Lumagen VisionHDP largely based on its programmable output resolution capability. Part of Lumagen's philosphy is to produce products which do not impose arbitrary limitations. If DVDO shared the same mind-set, then this box would have blown away the competition. Too bad.

Take a look at the rest of the DVDO offering-specifically the VP series. I think you will find no arbitrary limitations on these products.

This product is not designed for the high end market like the Lumagen and DVDO VP series

Ouch. I see that it is limited to standard resolutions at only 60 Hz output (50 Hz for PAL) in addition to 24 Hz. This is definitely not being marketted for us CRT projector fanboys, or indeed, for anyone with a display that is not natively 1920x1080 or 1280x720 (which is most people since most HD displays are not natively at a standard resolution!). I bought my Lumagen VisionHDP largely based on its programmable output resolution capability. Part of Lumagen's philosphy is to produce products which do not impose arbitrary limitations. If DVDO shared the same mind-set, then this box would have blown away the competition. Too bad.

if you want those features get a VP unit, that is the entire point here as Don just said ;)

-Gary

The hardware of the Beta units is exactly the same as production units. The chassis (cosmetics) of Beta units is different from production units in that the plastics on the front of the the production units will have a higher quality finish on them.

Hi Josh !

Will it be possible to switche from the Beta's face to the production unit face ?

If DVDO shared the same mind-set...

If they shared the same mindset as Lumagen, prices would be going up too!:rolleyes:

As far as I understand it, EDGE is not a replacement unit of the VP line, it is a whole new concept.

The VP50Pro is still the flagship of DVDO scalers.

That being said Edge features few extras that seem realy interesting, 6 HDMI inputs, Audio dedicated HDMI out (I love that feature ! A must have for HD audio codec) and more easy to use.

On the other hand the VPs still show more flexibility and more options, price wise I feel that EDGE is a complementary unit in the DVDO range and it will not take the place of the VP50 or the VP50Pro. It strikes at another market, mostly LCD and plasma users, even though I am conviced it could also be a very good addition in a projector based home theater.

Perfectly put. That is exactly how I view The Edge. :)

To clarify on the 2.35:1 question. If I understand correctly, the EDGE will only allow a zoom as compared to a stretch that would be on the VP line. Correct?

also to josh@dvdo/anyone:
Would the zoom method result in a lesser pq than the stretch method?

Perfectly put. That is exactly how I view The Edge. :)

Hi Joe !

The only thing is I already have a VP50Pro (which is not yet perfect, but is getting better and better with a very promised future).
I currently use the VP50Pro in a setup where EDGE would be more apropriate.

Well ... things to come anyway ...

Pardon my green-ness but, I'm not very knowledgeable about video processing. This unit has gotten my attention. First: I'm assuming each input can be set individually? This will be a huge plus as my a/v unit uses global settings, a real bummer. Second: Will I have a problem with a Pio 5010FD and 6010FD regarding the resolution limitations talked about in this thread? Thanks.

Yeah, I got the "autoreply" message also... apparently whoever is supposed to be reviewing the potential Beta Testers is currently on vacation.

Sorry Josh... its hard to explain.

I have a 2.35 screen and zoom out a 2.35 image to fit it. I set display to 16x9 and screen to 2.35. I now just simply set the input aspect ratio to whatever setting the movie is and everything fits perfectly on my screen without the use of a lens.
This can be accomplished using the input aspect ratio of EDGE but it is not as easy as it is on the VP50PRO which has specific features (Output Aspect Ratio controls for Display and Screen) which EDGE does not.

To do what shamus want (which is what I want too), you need to use zoom at less than 100% and the zoom function of the VP50Pro is from 100% to 150%. So if the EDGE as the same zoom range as the VP50Pro, the EDGE will not be able to do that...

Am I right ?

Richard.

The price of the EDGE definitely makes it attractive. One question it brings to mind is how it may effect the DVDO trade-in program. For example, right now you can trade-in a VP30 w/ABT102 for $1600 in credit towards a new processor. I'll be surprised if these trade-in values remain the same and DVDO would allow you to trade a VP30/ABT102 combo for 2 EDGE processors (but it would be sweet!)

Obviously there are pros to the VP series...otherwise they would 1. not have come out with the Edge or 2. discontinued the VP series. But, what this represents is a HUGE advancement in lower priced VP's. There are TONS of applications...people now can broaden their range of prepro/receiver choices because they don't have to worry about video processing in those...people can now make many projectors a CIH setup for a LOT less money...it is only barely more than a 6x1 HDMI switch, plus you have all the other benefits.

Is it for everyone? No...but at this price I'll be getting some for all my displays... :D

I back up that Jason !

I realy do think EDGE was the VP a lot of people were waiting for !
At this price range, nothing can deliver like the EDGE does !

I realy do think EDGE was the VP a lot of people were waiting for !
At this price range, nothing can deliver like the EDGE does !

There's definetely a market for a decent VP under $1000, and not much to chose from for decent upconverting of SD content.

Let's hope the EDGE is released soon.

This looks like a nice unit but seems to be missing a glaring inexpensive(I think)feature. That is to offer two HDMI video outputs. I just added a Samsung DLP RPTV to my video room(Bat cave as my wife calls it) for average/normal TV watching. I have a 100" ceiling mounted DLP projector for movies and big sports events. I would think that many if not most of AVS hobbyists have a setup similar to mine. Am I correct in saying this product does not satisfy this basic need?

Right now I chase this problem by sending my HDDVD via HDMI to the projector. I send Direct TV component to the projector and it's HDMI output to the new Samsung. This works but it would be really nice to have both inputs output via HDMI to the two sets. I would love to have it's processing improve much of the Direct TV content, even the HD stuff I suspect. My AVR is older and does not have HDMI and I don't want to replace it at this time.

That being said, could this Monoprice device be my solution:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2

I hesitate to spend $799 on a quality product and then screw up the signal with a $15 device that could have been designed in originally for a very small product cost.

Jack

This looks like a nice unit but seems to be missing a glaring inexpensive(I think)feature. That is to offer two HDMI video outputs. I just added a Samsung DLP RPTV to my video room(Bat cave as my wife calls it) for average/normal TV watching. I have a 100" ceiling mounted DLP projector for movies and big sports events. I would think that many if not most of AVS hobbyists have a setup similar to mine. Am I correct in saying this product does not satisfy this basic need?

Right now I chase this problem by sending my HDDVD via HDMI to the projector. I send Direct TV component to the projector and it's HDMI output to the new Samsung. This works but it would be really nice to have both inputs output via HDMI to the two sets. I would love to have it's processing improve much of the Direct TV content, even the HD stuff I suspect. My AVR is older and does not have HDMI and I don't want to replace it at this time.

That being said, could this Monoprice device be my solution:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2

I hesitate to spend $799 on a quality product and then screw up the signal with a $15 device that could have been designed in originally for a very small product cost.

Jack

I tried that Y split on my system and it was very flaky. I went with the 4x2 and it works great. Not sure where you are in relation to LA, but your more than welcome to borrow the Y split if you'd like.

With those passive splitters you can run into HDCP problems (experienced it myself). There are active 1x2 (or more ports) splitters or matrix-switches for $99 out there which will work perfectly and are not THIS expensive as well.....

This looks like a nice unit but seems to be missing a glaring inexpensive(I think)feature. That is to offer two HDMI video outputs. I just added a Samsung DLP RPTV to my video room(Bat cave as my wife calls it) for average/normal TV watching. I have a 100" ceiling mounted DLP projector for movies and big sports events. I would think that many if not most of AVS hobbyists have a setup similar to mine. Am I correct in saying this product does not satisfy this basic need?

Right now I chase this problem by sending my HDDVD via HDMI to the projector. I send Direct TV component to the projector and it's HDMI output to the new Samsung. This works but it would be really nice to have both inputs output via HDMI to the two sets. I would love to have it's processing improve much of the Direct TV content, even the HD stuff I suspect. My AVR is older and does not have HDMI and I don't want to replace it at this time.

That being said, could this Monoprice device be my solution:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011303&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2

I hesitate to spend $799 on a quality product and then screw up the signal with a $15 device that could have been designed in originally for a very small product cost.

Jack


It may be a low cost option to add but I think you're in the minority of people looking to support 2 HDMI display devices with one VP. This box can't be all things to all people at this price tag.

Yeah, I got the "autoreply" message also... apparently whoever is supposed to be reviewing the potential Beta Testers is currently on vacation.

There are several people receiving the questionnaires within Anchor Bay. One of these people did have the auto reply feature turned on. I am the one reviewing the questionnaires and I don't plan on going vacation any time soon.

If they shared the same mindset as Lumagen, prices would be going up too!:rolleyes:

I already talked with one on LUMAGENS techs and thay are coming out with a lower coast solution as well ,but he said it would not be under a thousand for there unit.So still no real comparisons with any other ,,,yet.I think there will be fare more competition for scalers under a grand than ever before.They have to get competitive before the newer display technology and better cheaper on board processors wipes them out.The law of business is expand and change ,improve before someone beats you to it .

Hi Josh !

Will it be possible to switch from the Beta's face to the production unit face ?
I'd like to know this too.

I'd like to know this too.

Because of the front panel HDMI, IR and LED being in this face plate it is not something that most consumers would be able to swap out themselves. It is certainly something that we can consider, understood that this is something that we would have to charge for.

What interests me the most about this product is what it isn't.

This is DVDO's attempt--a good one I think--to get some market penetration into the budget video processor market. The question remains what they will offer as a true update to the VP50Pro to service the high end and offer competition to the Lumagen Radiance, which has created a lot of interest because of its unique feature set.

The NEXT announcement from DVDO should be really interesting. If they can offer custom gamma/grayscale adjustments and color management in a VP50Pro replacement, this segment is going to have a lot to offer.

The NEXT announcement from DVDO should be really interesting. If they can offer custom gamma/grayscale adjustments and color management in a VP50Pro replacement, this segment is going to have a lot to offer.

Who's to say the pro wont get that?

I could really use the HDMI audio-only output on the VP50Pro right now since my Monoprice 4x2 switcher/splitter (the new 2.5 version even) doesn't seem to want to pass any audio.

I hope it's a feature on the next in the VP line, and that it comes soon...

Okay, I'm getting really confused. People are saying 'this is awesome for the non projector crowd' but then they are also say 'this is not for plasmas' because XxY resolution doesn't mean exactly the same thing to different manu's. Aren't Plasmas and Projectors the bulk of the market?

So, let me be very plain instead of asking a generic question: I have a TH-42PH9UK (1080i) and may upgrade to a TH-50PF10UK (1080p) at some point (or 11,12, series etc. when I get around to it).

For both of those models can I get 1:1 pixel mapping out of the Edge into the Plasma - i.e., no processing by the Plasma?

In the owners manual for the TH-42PH9UK it says:

786,432 (1024 (W) X 768 (H))
[3,072 X 768 dots]

So, let me be very plain instead of asking a generic question: I have a TH-42PH9UK (1080i) and may upgrade to a TH-50PF10UK (1080p) at some point (or 11,12, series etc. when I get around to it).

For both of those models can I get 1:1 pixel mapping out of the Edge into the Plasma - i.e., no processing by the Plasma?

IIRC the TH-42PH9UK has a native res of 1024 x 768. It isn't a supported output resolution of the Edge so no posiibility of 1:1.

The TH-50PK10UK is 1920x1080 and this is a supported output res from the Edge and 1:1 is a posibility.

I'm not that familar with these models but just because the input and native panel res match doesn't always result in 1:1 pixel mapping. It's worth double checking with owners to confrim under what conditions 1:1 is possible. There will always be some degree of processing in panel.

D

Okay, I'm getting really confused. People are saying 'this is awesome for the non projector crowd' but then they are also say 'this is not for plasmas' because XxY resolution doesn't mean exactly the same thing to different manu's.

Where are these people you're speaking of? I think if the native resolution of your projector or plasma matches one of the available presets this VP is perfect for you. Unfortunately, as someone else already pointed out, your panel wouldn't be a good candidate for this scaler if you are looking for 1:1 pixel mapping.

IIRC the TH-42PH9UK has a native res of 1024 x 768. It isn't a supported output resolution of the Edge so no posiibility of 1:1.

The TH-50PK10UK is 1920x1080 and this is a supported output res from the Edge and 1:1 is a posibility.

I'm not that familar with these models but just because the input and native panel res match doesn't always result in 1:1 pixel mapping. It's worth double checking with owners to confrim under what conditions 1:1 is possible. There will always be some degree of processing in panel.

D


I believe you can get 1:1 with a 1024 x 768 signal into the DVI blade of the 9UK.

I believe you can get 1:1 with a 1024 x 768 signal into the DVI blade of the 9UK.

Thanks for the info.

It can be a bit hit and miss. My Fujitsu panel will accept 1:1 1360x768 over HDMI but only at 60hz which is a bit of problem as I live in Europe so no 1:1 with local material. :(

D

Add to it :

- zoom range from 50% to 150%
- multiple memories per input to recall zoom, pan and all other parameters (contrast, etc...)

And it will be the product allowing 2.35 screen with 16/9 display at an affordable price !

Richard.

Add to it :

- zoom range from 50% to 150%
- multiple memories per input to recall zoom, pan and all other parameters (contrast, etc...)

And it will be the product allowing 2.35 screen with 16/9 display at an affordable price !

Richard.


That already exists with the VP20:D

Not sure,

The VP20 have same limitation as the VP50Pro on the zoom range (according to its user manual). The zoom can be from 100% to 150%. And VP20 only have Display Aspect Ratio parameter, no Screen Aspect Ratio parameter. So I don't think VP20 allow you to do 16/9 on a 2.35 screen.

Negative zoom is called Underscan on VPxx products and is only referenced in the VP30, VP50 and VP50Pro user manual. VP20 doesn't have this functionality.

Does the EDGE have underscan capabilities ?

An advantage of the VP20 is the preset aspect ration (memory for zoom, pan and borders) and some more output resolution.

But the EDGE have better video processing and more inputs/outputs.

A comparison between the VP20 and the EDGE would be interessant since each one target digital and standard only display. But VP20 price tag is twice the price of the EDGE !

Richard.

Does the EDGE have underscan capabilities ?Well, if you'd read the feature set Josh posted at the start of this thread you'd see:

Output Aspect Ratio Controls
•Presets: 4:3, 16:9
•Underscan Adjustment to eliminate Overscan inherent in a display

:o

I read it more than once but probably too quickly... :o

So it is better than the VP20 which doesn't have this underscan feature.

Thanks Dale,

That's a good news !

Richard.

IIRC the TH-42PH9UK has a native res of 1024 x 768. It isn't a supported output resolution of the Edge so no posiibility of 1:1.Actually, that's not the case. The Edge supports VGA, XGA and SXGA output resolutions. (That's 640x480, 1024x768 and 1280x1024 for those of you that are PC-terminology challenged. :D ) The latter two formats were added in a recent beta, so they aren't listed in the feature set shown in the first post in this thread.

- Dale Adams

Actually, that's not the case. The Edge supports VGA, XGA and SXGA output resolutions. (That's 640x480, 1024x768 and 1280x1024 for those of you that are PC-terminology challenged. :D ) The latter two formats were added in a recent beta, so they aren't listed in the feature set shown in the first post in this thread.

- Dale Adams

Thanks for the info Dale but why not support 1366x768 as well??? I'm sure an argument could be made for other resolutions but there is such a prevalence of panels with this resolution available today.

Josh answered this a few postings above. 1366 seems to be no defined standard, so there are various versions of this resolution and they still might not work on every display. From a support standpoint it's probably wiser not to include them.

Still if you add the Panasonic plasma version of 1366x768 you add a whole lot of displays. How hard can that be?

I suspect it isn't a question of difficulty in the adding the functionality to support the various plasma resolutions, but that DVDO may not want to cannibalize sales of the VP line of processors. It seems pretty clear that the EDGE is meant to target customers who don't need many custom features, but do want to add quality video processing to their setups beyond what is possible is most mainstream receivers and pre/pros.

DVDO may not want to cannibalize sales of the VP line of processors.

The fact that they are already adding new resolutions in beta does not seem to support that speculation.

I suspect it isn't a question of difficulty in the adding the functionality to support the various plasma resolutions, but that DVDO may not want to cannibalize sales of the VP line of processors. It seems pretty clear that the EDGE is meant to target customers who don't need many custom features, but do want to add quality video processing to their setups beyond what is possible is most mainstream receivers and pre/pros.

perfect explanation IMHO

-Gary

I agree. That sums up the Edge's target market. You get HDMI 1.3 switching and MNR, FIne Detail and Edge Enhancement. What more could the average set up need? This is a great solution for the majority of the market... :)

Would I be able to feed a 1080p 60fps source (say blu-ray) and have this output 1080i 60? I say this because this would be ideal for my two tv setup. One is 1080p 60, other is not.

What are the available memory settings per input?

Would I be able to feed a 1080p 60fps source (say blu-ray) and have this output 1080i 60? I say this because this would be ideal for my two tv setup. One is 1080p 60, other is not.

What are the available memory settings per input?

Note, the second HDMI out is for audio only.

In the owners manual for the TH-42PH9UK it says:

786,432 (1024 (W) X 768 (H))
[3,072 X 768 dots]

Stick this in your back pocket for the future....there is no such thing as an interlaced digital display (1080i for instance). In the case of the plasma you have, it is 1024x768 (768p) native, so ideally for maximum performance, you want to feed it that resolution. The 1080i you are seeing is the maximum scan rate "input" it can take.

Hope that helps.

Josh,
I'd like to understand what limitations I can expect vs the VP50Pro I’ve been considering up until now. I live in PAL territory an my setup contains a 720p front projector, 16:9 screen, Oppo 980 DVD, PS3 BluRay and a STB automatically switching between 576i50/720p50/1080i50 depending on the channel currently watched.

1. Can I use different settings for MNR, FD and EE depending on input resolution provided by the STB?

2. Can 1080p24 be scaled to 720p48 (or 720p24)?

3. Is it possible to automatically get different output resolutions depending on what is transmitted by the PS3? (1080i60->720p60 for concert videos etc and 1080p24->720p24/48 for film content.)

4. The product brief PDF for the ABT2010 ASIC mentions support for sub-pixel Y/C delay but the EDGE comparison PDF states the opposite. Any chance that this feature will be enabled?

Thanks,
Mikael

Thanks for the info everyone. If there are still options and DVDO is still working on the final specification I would definitely big-time say go look at Amazon or Visual Apex and mine their site for what the top selling Plasma's are. The Panasonic Pro line on Visual Apex was typically 4 of the top 6 or 7 slots for best sellers. So from a market perspective I think it would make sense to include those!

I understand if 'today' (versus a year ago or so) 1024x768 might be too small, but remember that at 42 inches 1080i and 1080p are only visually distinguishable by taping your eyeballs to the screen. Normal sitting distances (10 feet? 8? 14?) can't tell the difference. Anyway they seem to have the 50 inch sizes, so that is good.

Yeah - under "top selling pro plasmas" the top 2 are:

1. Panasonic TH-50PH11UK: Featuring 720p resolution, 15,000:1 contrast ratio
2. Panasonic TH-42PH11UK: Featuring 720p resolution, 15,000:1 contrast ratio

There are lots of people with mid-size living rooms that don't want them dominated by a huge TV. I just helped a friend choose a 37 inch - they could have afforded a 1080p 50 inch, but it didn't make sense in their living room.

Can anyone confirm for sure if it can be done via the computer-related settings mentioned above? Some say it can be done, but we don't seem to have concensus yet.

Also - with computer resolutions you have to be careful about rectangular vs square pixels. If I understand right, the pixels aren't square on the Plasma, and on a monitor with 1024 X 768 they would be square. Does this make a difference at the DVDO Edge output level? I've seen output not deal with the recatngular pixels vs square pixels correctly before. Everyone is fat when you go to widescreen.

As to people above saying they should add the Panny version of 1366 - I agree. Aren't Panny and Pio the 2 top sellers? I would include the main resolutions for both. It is all market research, whatever the top sellers are. But - be careful! Not the top sellers overall. Be very careful here. The top sellers of units that are high quality enough that people are still willing to buy more stuff to add to them. The Costco 'how can it be that cheap' Plasma's from companies you've never heard of - people who buy those aren't going to add an Edge to it in general. From everything I've heard about Plasma's so far its a Panny/Pio world for the middle-high end or high end or whatever we want to call it. So if you add the Pio and Panny 1366 so we can get 1:1 pixel mapping - gigantic market just opened up with a perfect solution!

As to people above saying they should add the Panny version of 1366 - I agree. Aren't Panny and Pio the 2 top sellers? I would include the main resolutions for both. It is all market research, whatever the top sellers are. But - be careful! Not the top sellers overall. Be very careful here. The top sellers of units that are high quality enough that people are still willing to buy more stuff to add to them. The Costco 'how can it be that cheap' Plasma's from companies you've never heard of - people who buy those aren't going to add an Edge to it in general. From everything I've heard about Plasma's so far its a Panny/Pio world for the middle-high end or high end or whatever we want to call it. So if you add the Pio and Panny 1366 so we can get 1:1 pixel mapping - gigantic market just opened up with a perfect solution!

Not to sound like a broken record, but I second this.

Not to sound like a broken record, but I second this.

I started it so you're actually thirding it. :D

Can the Edge be configured to automatically switch between 1080p24 output for film-based sources and 1080p60 output for video-based sources?

As to people above saying they should add the Panny version of 1366 - I agree. Aren't Panny and Pio the 2 top sellers? I would include the main resolutions for both. It is all market research, whatever the top sellers are. But - be careful! Not the top sellers overall. Be very careful here. The top sellers of units that are high quality enough that people are still willing to buy more stuff to add to them. The Costco 'how can it be that cheap' Plasma's from companies you've never heard of - people who buy those aren't going to add an Edge to it in general. From everything I've heard about Plasma's so far its a Panny/Pio world for the middle-high end or high end or whatever we want to call it. So if you add the Pio and Panny 1366 so we can get 1:1 pixel mapping - gigantic market just opened up with a perfect solution!

Most consumer HDTVs (not industrial/commercial models) that have a 1366x768 resolution DO NOT EVEN accept this resolution. This is true of the 1366x768 plasma TVs from Panasonic and the 1365x768 plasmas from Pioneer.

Can the Edge be configured to automatically switch between 1080p24 output for film-based sources and 1080p60 output for video-based sources?

There are discrete codes for outputting 1080p-24 and 1080p-60 (as well as all other default formats) although EDGE will not switch automatically based on the content. This is done so that a typical consumer will not have to deal with a display syncing/resyncing as they are watching a film on broadcast TV with video-based commercials.

As to people above saying they should add the Panny version of 1366 - I agree. Aren't Panny and Pio the 2 top sellers? I would include the main resolutions for both.

Last I checked the 768p Panny plasmas wouldn't accept native over HDMI. Has this changed?

There are discrete codes for outputting 1080p-24 and 1080p-60 (as well as all other default formats) although EDGE will not switch automatically based on the content.

Meaning you can switch b/w 1080p24 output and 1080p60 output "on-the-fly" by remote control?

re vert. stretch for lens based 2.35:1 cih setup.

To clarify on the 2.35:1 question. If I understand correctly, the EDGE will only allow a zoom as compared to a stretch that would be on the VP line. Correct?

also to josh@dvdo/anyone:
Would the zoom method result in a lesser pq than the stretch method?

thanks!

Meaning you can switch b/w 1080p24 output and 1080p60 output "on-the-fly" by remote control?

These codes would need to be programmed into a universal remote control. We are considering allowing the user to switch with the included remote control, but that would require at least two button pushes.

thanks!

The 33% vertical stretch is accomplished by scaling. There should be difference between vertically zooming and "stretching".

These codes would need to be programmed into a universal remote control. We are considering allowing the user to switch with the included remote control, but that would require at least two button pushes.

Two button pushes would still be OK. I could deal with video based commercials looking jerky as long as I could get a stable 1080p24 from 1080i film based HDTV.

This thing really interests me.:)

These codes would need to be programmed into a universal remote control. We are considering allowing the user to switch with the included remote control, but that would require at least two button pushes.

Are you saying you can't set the output frame rate depending on what input is active? :eek: Please say no!!!

2 button pushes would be very acceptable... :)

Most consumer HDTVs (not industrial/commercial models) that have a 1366x768 resolution DO NOT EVEN accept this resolution. This is true of the 1366x768 plasma TVs from Panasonic and the 1365x768 plasmas from Pioneer.

Good point, and I was planning to go for an industrial model, however, now you've stuck a wrench in my plans to buy a 1366x768 version. :(

2 button pushes would be very acceptable... :)

While I agree 2 button pushes is not a big deal you have to wonder what other settings that should be input specific aren't capable of being saved to memory. Are features like edge enhancement global ONLY? If not, why not be able to set frame rate per input???

While I agree 2 button pushes is not a big deal you have to wonder what other settings that should be input specific aren't capable of being saved to memory. Are features like edge enhancement global ONLY? If not, why not be able to set frame rate per input???

Only an 'advanced' user would want to change output framerates dependent on the input. 'Advanced' users can easily create a macro if they desire to do this on the included remote (if we decide to use a combination of buttons as I mentioned previously) or any universal remote control with the discrete IR codes (which most 'advanced' users have).

All picture controls (Brightness/Contrast/Saturation/Hue/Detail Enhancement/Edge Enhancement/Mosquito NR) as well as whether or not Game Mode is applied are saved on per input basis.

Most consumer HDTVs (not industrial/commercial models) that have a 1366x768 resolution DO NOT EVEN accept this resolution. This is true of the 1366x768 plasma TVs from Panasonic and the 1365x768 plasmas from Pioneer.
Please don't let facts confuse the discussion, Josh. :p

Only an 'advanced' user would want to change output framerates dependent on the input. 'Advanced' users can easily create a macro if they desire to do this on the included remote (if we decide to use a combination of buttons as I mentioned previously) or any universal remote control with the discrete IR codes (which most 'advanced' users have).

All picture controls (Brightness/Contrast/Saturation/Hue/Detail Enhancement/Edge Enhancement/Mosquito NR) as well as whether or not Game Mode is applied are saved on per input basis.

Thanks Josh...however, not sure how giving someone the ability to set scan rate per input is more demanding for a 'novice' user than any other of the per input settings. Isn't someone that buys a scaler, regardless of purchase price, an 'Advanced' user?

can it adjust the percentage of overscan/underscan?

Thanks Josh...however, not sure how giving someone the ability to set scan rate per input is more demanding for a 'novice' user than any other of the per input settings. Isn't someone that buys a scaler, regardless of purchase price, an 'Advanced' user?If you use an uncompatible scan rate or custom res most fixed panel display will not display it correctly.
Most of the fixed panel displays today only work with standard timings any way so custom timings are not realy needed for these display types, only multi scan displays/projectors work well with custom scan rate's and resolutions.....

If you use an uncompatible scan rate or custom res most fixed panel display will not display it correctly.
Most of the fixed panel displays today only work with standard timings any way so custom timings are not realy needed for these display types, only multi scan displays/projectors work well with custom scan rate's and resolutions.....

I see what you are saying...but I'm considering this for an Epson 1080UB.

Is the Beta restricted to the USA or can people in the UK apply ?

D

If you use an incompatible scan rate or custom res most fixed panel display will not display it correctly.
Most of the fixed panel displays today only work with standard timings any way so custom timings are not relay needed for these display types, only multi scan displays/projectors work well with custom scan rate's and resolutions.....

And the problem (setting an incompatible scan rate) then is that if you loose the picture entirely you may not know how to get it back to a resolution/frame rate that will allow the display to show a picture again. This, because the Edge does NOT have a Front Panel Display like The VP 50 series. True, if a default 480/576i/p toggle button was/is provided, you can at least get a picture back again. Is there such a button on the Edge Remote btw? The Oppo's DVD players have such a button - well worth having IMO.

I think that the Edge is intended for the next/just becoming current display technology and that output resolutions of 1080i/p/50/60 and 1080p24 should be all that are required. IMO it's intended for the semi "advanced" user - typically NOT your PJ guy but your medium to large active display panel user.

Josh,

Interesting - so you are saying that on the non-pro models they don't accept their native resolution as input? Sounds odd, but I believe you. I've seen more odd. As I alluded to earlier, this becomes a market research issue, and I'm sure you have good people who know what the sales numbers are for the pro models. If its high enough, then it makes sense to do it, otherwise, not so much. In general, the idea of having a fixed number of output options to reduce cost of course makes complete sense.

Can you confirm the 3 new computer settings?

Is the Beta restricted to the USA or can people in the UK apply ?

D

It says Internationals may apply too, so I am hoping this includes the UK.

Filled in my questionnaire yesterday, holding my breath now and hoping I'll get selected. Sounds perfect for what I am looking for, and this sounds like an exciting project.

Hoping to hook it up to a JVC HD100 and a Samsung plasma, and then feed the audio out to an Audiolab 8000AP. Pretty sure it should give some fantastic results.

Michael

Is the Beta restricted to the USA or can people in the UK apply ?
It's international, I'm in Australia and have been selected to be a public beta tester.

IMO it's intended for the semi "advanced" user

Which side do I fall on as a quasi-semi advanced user?

Which side do I fall on as a quasi-semi advanced user?
Hmm.. now let's see, quasi "resembling somebody or something in some ways, but not exactly the same". Hmm...dunno, but I think we'll let you into the club all the same :D.

Note, the second HDMI out is for audio only.

Maybe I was a little vague. I intend to unplug the output (Audio and video) from my projector (which accepts 1080p) and plug it into my other tv (which accepts 1080i). But what I would not like to do it change the settings on my PS3 everytime I do that from 1080i to 1080p and vis versa. So my original question stands, "Can I feed the Edge a 1080p 60 signal and have it convert down (by some kind of memorey setting, pre-configured to 1080i 60"?

The 33% vertical stretch is accomplished by scaling. There should be difference between vertically zooming and "stretching".
Thanks Josh,

Can you explain then what the "2.35:1 Screen Output Mode" is as identified in the EDGE vs VP50 comparison pdf. It currently is unchecked for the EDGE yet if I understand what you are saying then the EDGE will indeed allow me to scale for an anamorphic lens setup. So what is that particular item comparing?

Thanks
Jim

It is internationally available, but there are more limited numbers available as well.

Would I be able to feed a 1080p 60fps source (say blu-ray) and have this output 1080i 60? I say this because this would be ideal for my two tv setup. One is 1080p 60, other is not.

What are the available memory settings per input?

Maybe I was a little vague. My intention is to unplug the output (audio and video) and run it to my other TV (1080i 60fps). What I am trying to accomplish to set PS3 to 1080p all the time and have the Edge down convert signal to 1080i for this TV (via a memory setting). Then when I plug back into other tv/projector and change to other memory setting it will be set to 1080p. I just dont want to change the settings on PS3 everytime I go from a 1080p set to 1080i set.

And the problem (setting an incompatible scan rate) then is that if you loose the picture entirely you may not know how to get it back to a resolution/frame rate that will allow the display to show a picture again. This, because the Edge does NOT have a Front Panel Display like The VP 50 series. True, if a default 480/576i/p toggle button was/is provided, you can at least get a picture back again. Is there such a button on the Edge Remote btw? The Oppo's DVD players have such a button - well worth having IMO.

I think that the Edge is intended for the next/just becoming current display technology and that output resolutions of 1080i/p/50/60 and 1080p24 should be all that are required. IMO it's intended for the semi "advanced" user - typically NOT your PJ guy but your medium to large active display panel user.


Any problems caused by a lost picture can be solved by a prompt that requires you to approve the new resolution within 10 seconds or the resolution reverts to default or what it was set to before.

Maybe I was a little vague. My intention is to unplug the output (audio and video) and run it to my other TV (1080i 60fps). What I am trying to accomplish to set PS3 to 1080p all the time and have the Edge down convert signal to 1080i for this TV (via a memory setting). Then when I plug back into other tv/projector and change to other memory setting it will be set to 1080p. I just dont want to change the settings on PS3 everytime I go from a 1080p set to 1080i set.

Your application would not be facilited by the EDGE given the way its memory is set up. You would have to change the output res in the menu every time you switch display devices. As others have suggested you would have to create a macro with your univ remote to make it quasi-seamless. It seems a line a has been drawn in the sand as to what someone who buys an $800 VP would be competent to configure.

FYI I will start contacting beta members early next week to get orders in place.

Expect to hear from me. :)

This can be accomplished using the input aspect ratio of EDGE but it is not as easy as it is on the VP50PRO which has specific features (Output Aspect Ratio controls for Display and Screen) which EDGE does not.

Josh, there's a few folks in this thread interested in a cheap solution to the zoom/shrink method or "Digital Scope" (CIH without a lens). Maybe you can drop by if you get a chance.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1022306&page=4

Which side do I fall on as a quasi-semi advanced user?

You have a web page with pictures of your theater and a list of your gear. I think we all know which side you fall on. :D

Note, the second HDMI out is for audio only.

Your application would not be facilited by the EDGE given the way its memory is set up. You would have to change the output res in the menu every time you switch display devices. As others have suggested you would have to create a macro with your univ remote to make it quasi-seamless. It seems a line a has been drawn in the sand as to what someone who buys an $800 VP would be competent to configure.

But with that said the VP is capable of accepting a 1080p signal and downconverting it to 1080i?

Thanks Josh,

Can you explain then what the "2.35:1 Screen Output Mode" is as identified in the EDGE vs VP50 comparison pdf. It currently is unchecked for the EDGE yet if I understand what you are saying then the EDGE will indeed allow me to scale for an anamorphic lens setup. So what is that particular item comparing?

Thanks
Jim

The iScan VP50PRO has three controls for the Output Aspect Ratio (Display/Lens/Screen). EDGE has a single control for Output Aspect Ratio (Display). With the VP50PRO a user can define that they have a 16:9 projector, with or without a motorized or fixed anamorphic lens, being projected onto a 2.35:1 screen. Once this is done all Input Aspect Ratio controls are sized correctly for their combination. A user of EDGE can get the same intended results for 2.35:1 content by vertically stretching a 2.35:1 image by 33% using the Vertical Zoom control but EDGE is not as flexible as the VP50PRO in allowing the user to define their output configuration with the processor determining the correct output image.

But with that said the VP is capable of accepting a 1080p signal and downconverting it to 1080i?

Yes, EDGE can do this.

Hi Josh,

What is the video resolution of the second 'audio only' output?(for those that don't know audio is carried in the VBI over HDMI)

What audio input/output formats, sampling rates and number of channels of LPCM are supported?

How is audio EDID handled? Does it use the audio EDID received from the second output if connected otherwise use the audio EDID from the main output?

Thanks,

Shawn

edited.

How about sending me an email instead of posting on a public forum?

Done;)

What is the video resolution of the second 'audio only' output?(for those that don't know audio is carried in the VBI over HDMI)

720p-60

What audio input/output formats, sampling rates and number of channels of LPCM are supported?

All audio formats are supported: PCM (stereo and multi-channel), Bitstream (DD up to TrueHD, DTS up to DTS-MA), and DSD (SACD)

How is audio EDID handled? Does it use the audio EDID received from the second output if connected otherwise use the audio EDID from the main output?

There are three audio outputs on EDGE: the HDMI A/V (display), the HDMI Audio Only and the Optical Digital Output. If the user has selected the HDMI A/V output EDGE will communicate the Audio and Video EDID of the connected device on this connection. If the user has selected the HDMI Audio Only output then EDGE will take the Audio EDID of that connected device and combine it with the Video EDID of the device connected on the HDMI A/V output. If the user has selected the Optical Digital output then EDGE will communicate that 2 channel PCM and DD/DTS is the maximum capability in the Audio EDID and combine that with the Video EDID of the device on the HDMI A/V output. We consider this be an Intelligent Auto EDID Merge feature.

EDGE is capable of detecting the "preferred" format that is reported by a display in its EDID. If that "preferred" format is not one of the default formats supported by EDGE (480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, or VGA) it can still be selected using the 'Auto' Output Format selection option. So if you have a 1920x1200 display that reports that 1920x1200 is the "preferred" format (which most PC monitors do) you will be able to output this resolution from your EDGE. If your display is a 1366x768 LCD that reports that its "preferred" format is 720p you will not be able to output the native resolution of this display.

There are no standards for 1366x768 (or 1360x768). In our VP line products we have 4 presets to handle these resolutions and the user may be forced to change sync polarity or horizontally/vertically shift the image to get 1:1. Most users do not want to go through this kind of advanced setup and these displays are becoming less and less popular.

I'm confused. I have a Panny pro plasma with 1366x768 native resolution: assuming that the Panny is reporting a 'preferred' format of 768p (correct?), what would happen if I were to use the 'Auto' Output format selection option on the EDGE?

I'm confused. I have a Panny pro plasma with 1366x768 native resolution: assuming that the Panny is reporting a 'preferred' format of 768p (correct?), what would happen if I were to use the 'Auto' Output format selection option on the EDGE?

This VP is not a good option for Panny Pro plasma's with a native res of 1366x768. You will be subject secondary processing by your panel. You can PM me for more info since this has been discussed here already.

I'm confused. I have a Panny pro plasma with 1366x768 native resolution: assuming that the Panny is reporting a 'preferred' format of 768p (correct?), what would happen if I were to use the 'Auto' Output format selection option on the EDGE?

Then EDGE would output the preferred format for that display, which may or may not be 1366x768. All of the timing descriptors for the preferred format are also included in the EDID.

Well, I am curious to know the following:

1. Can the Edge convert a 1080p to 720p?
2. How does it compare against scalers in receivers such as the Denon 4308, Denon 5308 and Pioneer Elite SC-09?

I guess time will tell. Hopefully, I will get a chance to test and compare in the next week or so.

1. Can the Edge convert a 1080p to 720p?


Yes

2. How does it compare against scalers in receivers such as the Denon 4308, Denon 5308 and Pioneer Elite SC-09?

EDGE has the same performance as the VP50PRO so any comparison between the VP50PRO and an AVR can be applied to EDGE as well.

The iScan VP50PRO has three controls for the Output Aspect Ratio (Display/Lens/Screen). EDGE has a single control for Output Aspect Ratio (Display). With the VP50PRO a user can define that they have a 16:9 projector, with or without a motorized or fixed anamorphic lens, being projected onto a 2.35:1 screen. Once this is done all Input Aspect Ratio controls are sized correctly for their combination. A user of EDGE can get the same intended results for 2.35:1 content by vertically stretching a 2.35:1 image by 33% using the Vertical Zoom control but EDGE is not as flexible as the VP50PRO in allowing the user to define their output configuration with the processor determining the correct output image.

Josh, I understand here that the EDGE have two zoom control :

- horizontal zoom control and
- vertical zoom control to do vertical stretch.

Am I right ?

In such case, it means that the EDGE can be used with vertical zoom to 133% and horizontal zoom to 100% to stretch vertically the image in order to use with an anamorphic lens ?

But what if we use no anamorphic lens ? Can we zoom (or use underscan) 66% horizontally and vertically to reduce a 16/9 image in order to be totally visible in a 2.35:1 screen ?

On the VP50Pro, the underscan is limited to 75% which is not enough and zoom start at 100% with is not enough too...

What about the Edge ?

Richard.

2. How does it compare against scalers in receivers such as the Denon 4308, Denon 5308 and Pioneer Elite SC-09?

Out of those receivers, the 5308 is suppose to have the best VP out of the bunch. I got the 5308 and the VPpro is leaps better in PQ.

Output Aspect Ratio Controls
•Presets: 4:3, 16:9
•Underscan Adjustment to eliminate Overscan inherent in a display

It's nice to see Dale still follows the ABT threads since his knowledge and history of the inner workings of VPs are much appreciated.

The underscan adjustment was the biggest selling point for me when I bought the VP30 since it is a problem that has plagued many of us who use our screens as a PC monitor. My XBR 60 has close to a 4% overscan which is most of the bottom tab bar for Windows. I wouldn't consider a VP without this feature.

The 2 HDMI outs is really cool even if one is for audio since I my current receiver (Pio-92) doesn't allow me to choose separate video and audio sources (unlike my older Elite-53) and switching the configuration in the setup menu is a pain. With the video signal bypassing the receiver this is no longer an issue since the source selection will not affect video.

I would definitely jump on this one if you don't have a external processor, although it isn't quite enough for me to retire my trusty VP especially after just replacing my power supply last month (like many others) and recently buying an Algolith Flea.

I'm really looking forward to the VPXX model which I assume will have 2 HDMI 1.3 outs (possibly both with video). Hopefully I will have a bitstream source by then since I'm still using a PS3 and a HDA1.

This VP is not a good option for Panny Pro plasma's with a native res of 1366x768. You will be subject secondary processing by your panel. You can PM me for more info since this has been discussed here already.

What is the disadvantage? How is there less scaling without the Edge in the chain? You would still have the hard part, de-interlacing, done by the superior Edge.

Out of those receivers, the 5308 is suppose to have the best VP out of the bunch. I got the 5308 and the VPpro is leaps better in PQ.

Thanks for the information. I was planning to pick up the 4308 or 5308 soon, but I am going to wait.

The Edge seems quite interesting, however I wish it had 2 full HDMI Video and Audio out to support my Projector and TV.

Maybe an upgrade in the future?

Any problems caused by a lost picture can be solved by a prompt that requires you to approve the new resolution within 10 seconds or the resolution reverts to default or what it was set to before.
Are you talking about how the EDGE works here or the VPxx range? On these, once approved, you wind up with the new resolution/frame rate which is one that may not give you a picture at all. I have a VP50 so I know how it works. What's needed is a button for a back to a common default res setup like 576/480i. The Oppos for example have a dedicated Res button that allows you to cycle through all its possible out resolutions - here we would just need one to get it back to a standard res that is acceptable to almost any display.

Are you talking about how the EDGE works here or the VPxx range? On these, once approved, you wind up with the new resolution/frame rate which is one that may not give you a picture at all. I have a VP50 so I know how it works. What's needed is a button for a back to a common default res setup like 576/480i. The Oppos for example have a dedicated Res button that allows you to cycle through all its possible out resolutions - here we would just need one to get it back to a standard res that is acceptable to almost any display.

EDGE will change to the chosen output format and if the user does not confirm that they see a picture it will default to the previously selected format in 7 seconds.

EDGE will change to the chosen output format and if the user does not confirm that they see a picture it will default to the previously selected format in 7 seconds.
Excellent - thanks Josh.

any idea when the Betas will be available?

The iScan VP50PRO has three controls for the Output Aspect Ratio (Display/Lens/Screen). EDGE has a single control for Output Aspect Ratio (Display). With the VP50PRO a user can define that they have a 16:9 projector, with or without a motorized or fixed anamorphic lens, being projected onto a 2.35:1 screen. Once this is done all Input Aspect Ratio controls are sized correctly for their combination. A user of EDGE can get the same intended results for 2.35:1 content by vertically stretching a 2.35:1 image by 33% using the Vertical Zoom control but EDGE is not as flexible as the VP50PRO in allowing the user to define their output configuration with the processor determining the correct output image.


More confused than ever. Can I leave my Panamorph lens in place all the time for 2.35:1?

Thanks for the information. I was planning to pick up the 4308 or 5308 soon, but I am going to wait.

The Edge seems quite interesting, however I wish it had 2 full HDMI Video and Audio out to support my Projector and TV.

Maybe an upgrade in the future?

The 5308 has two so you wouldn't need it.

Can't decipher if this EDGE has picture adjustments or not, i.e. contrast, brightness, sharpness etc. as in the VP series? If so is it seperate per HDMI input?

deleted, double post

I have two questions. I'm learning about VP right now. I've been following for a while. I currently use D* and get my local channels via OTA. I have a Denon 3808 with the DCDi chip which I understand is not good at all.

When I try to watch D* through the processor in the 3808, the picture looks much worse than when my Sony rear projection 60 inch series A3000 set gets a signal straight from the box. I understand that D* picture quality for SD stations is poor, but the HD channels (especially the MPEG4 channels) look beautiful.

How does the VP50 perform with D*, both SD and HD?

Second, since I have the 3808, what would be the best way to install this box? I know that I should turn off all my processing in the TV and in the AVR, but should I put a VP before the AVR or after?

Could you guys make a cheaper box by only including one HDMI in/out for us that have AVR's or would that be too small a market?

Can't decipher if this EDGE has picture adjustments or not, i.e. contrast, brightness, sharpness etc. as in the VP series? If so is it seperate per HDMI input?

Yes, there are picture controls (brightness, contrast, saturation, hue, Detail Enhancement, Edge Enhancement, Mosquito NR) that are saved on a per input basis.

Yes, there are picture controls (brightness, contrast, saturation, hue, Detail Enhancement, Edge Enhancement, Mosquito NR) that are saved on a per input basis.

•High performance, multi-standard video decoder, 10-bit high dynamic range, deep color processing and 3D noise reduction (DNR)


Is the 3D DNR user adjustable and/or saved per input?

EDGE will change to the chosen output format and if the user does not confirm that they see a picture it will default to the previously selected format in 7 seconds.
Josh, another point I would love to have some clarification on. This one relates to "Display Profiles" which I note the EDGE does not appear to have, although mention of some sort of equivalent functionality has been mentioned in this thread.

Specifically, can I do what I am now doing with my VP50 as detailed below? The reason I am keen on the EDGE is that I would gain MNR, FD and EE without having to upgrade to a Pro.

Hi Josh,

Well, I set about doing this and I can report complete success. It will even switch/register an input change between 1080p50, 1080p60 and 1080p24 on the same input .

I found it much easier to actually have all my inputs active and then select each one in turn before setting/adjusting all the parameters I wanted/needed to and then allocating it to a profile. Trying to set it up without doing it this way can lead to not being able to select some FR options/settings, which is what I was (obviously) doing wrong before.

Having a front panel display proved invaluable in doing all of this as I would often loose the display when going from one input to the next. Being able to see and set up the resolution and frame rate with the front panel display is a godsend . Just no way you can do that with a Radiance XD (I had one for a while) which has no display at all.

It's really amazing really what can be customised with this thing (VP50). I now have 10 profiles set up, dealing with input resolutions between 480i, 576i/p, 720p, and 1080i/p50/60/24 running over 5 input sources and outputting 1080p/50/60/24, with each input locked to the incoming source Frame Rate.

Link to original post here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14278440#post14278440).

Thanks.

Josh, a question about the EDGE and its deinterlacing capabilities if I may, hopefully you have some useful information.

I own a large collection of anime on DVD and am not planning to upgrade it all to Bluray. So I need a good scaler that will properly deinterlace anime. Which isn't always very straightforward as anime isn't always using standard cadence.

Add to this that I purchase my discs in France (PAL standard), which have been transcoded from NTSC to PAL to result in a right mess for any deinterlacer to get through.

They look fine on a CRT screen, but I notice glitches when played back using a PC and WinDVD. And I don't like the results I see on a large Sony LCD screen.

I was advised to buy the latest Oppo DVD player, which uses an ABT chipset, but then I read it has some problems with PAL discs in general.

How do you expect the EDGE to handle this kind of material? Is it an option for me to look at?

Thanks!

Neko

Does the EDGE have the "image shift" feature ? (i.e. shifting a 2.35 image within a 16:9 frame. This had been available in your VPs since the HD+ time)

Thanks.

Yes, there are picture controls (brightness, contrast, saturation, hue, Detail Enhancement, Edge Enhancement, Mosquito NR) that are saved on a per input basis.

Thanks Josh, that is great when can the EDGE be purchased.

I have read the first page a couple times but, still can't figure out if this thing allows separate settings for each input?

Yes, there are picture controls (brightness, contrast, saturation, hue, Detail Enhancement, Edge Enhancement, Mosquito NR) that are saved on a per input basis.
See Josh's post above.

Wow. This processor is just what I need for my family room. I will have a 1080p LCD display (currently 768.) I need it's switching capability, as I'm out of inputs on my current tv, and one of the ones I'm looking at only has one HDMI input. I have 3 HDMI sources (DVR, HD-A3, BDP-S301) one component (Wii), one s-video (CLD-703 Laserdisc), and one composite (VCR). I'll also upgrade my AVR to an HDMI 1.3 unit with all the decoding capabilities, but with the Edge's optical out I can survive with the older audio codecs. (I am now.)

I have a CIH front projector setup in the basement with a high-end scaler (Crystalio II), so I know what a difference in PQ one of these devices makes, but didn't need all the adjustably upstairs.

Thanks DVDO. I couldn't see spending the money for another high-end scaler when I didn't need all the features. The Edge should also help with my overly-compressed Comcast cable signal, especially when I get the bigger display. (I'm going from 37" to 52 or 65".)

What about combo game/film devices like the PS3? If the Game mode is tied to an input, then I hope it is easy to turn on/off (remote button or code?). I watch BluRays and play games on my PS3.

I would be in the same boat, how hard is it to switch in and out of game mode?

Josh, I understand here that the EDGE have two zoom control :

- horizontal zoom control and
- vertical zoom control to do vertical stretch.

Am I right ?

In such case, it means that the EDGE can be used with vertical zoom to 133% and horizontal zoom to 100% to stretch vertically the image in order to use with an anamorphic lens ?

But what if we use no anamorphic lens ? Can we zoom (or use underscan) 66% horizontally and vertically to reduce a 16/9 image in order to be totally visible in a 2.35:1 screen ?

On the VP50Pro, the underscan is limited to 75% which is not enough and zoom start at 100% with is not enough too...

What about the Edge ?

Richard.

Up...

Josh, do you have answers to my questions ?

Thanks :)

Richard.

This sounds like it's going to be a must-have product, especially if you live in PAL territories, as most displays do a poor job deinterlacing PAL signals. I have a few questions though:

Firstly, is there any chance of getting 48Hz output added to the box? None of my current displays will take 1080p24, but I can send 48Hz to a CRT.

Secondly, is the processing done in 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 colour? MPEG video may be 4:2:0, but games are 4:4:4 and the difference is noticeable in my setup.

Thirdly, you say the game mode is ‘less than a frame’ for processing. Is that less than 16ms (many games are 60fps) or 32ms?

Thanks.

The specs sound top notch,but....and i know i am going to get dog piled on for this but i feel something like this really needs a basic test pattern to make sure its adjusted properly..I know josh said it wont happen,something for DVDO to think about......not everyone is tech smart and the general public would greatly benefit form the ability to see what they are adjusting and if its correct.You know when the customer has the guess work taken out of the setup,DVDO is the winner in the end= word of mouth goes fare.This means more sales=more profit .last 0 competition.I deal with the general public everyday making things fool proof makes good business sence.Just my 2 cents.

Bear

The problem is there is no one pattern. You need a number of them. Then you are not adjusting the EDGE but your display.

Use one of the available calibration disks to fine tune your display. You then use the EDGE to tweek each input to your liking.

Interestingly if we take 10 people on this thread who only want the one additional feature to make them happy and add them then the EDGE becomes a VPxx and no longer costs $799.

The problem is there is no one pattern. You need a number of them. Then you are not adjusting the EDGE but your display.

Use one of the available calibration disks to fine tune your display. You then use the EDGE to tweek each input to your liking.

Interestingly if we take 10 people on this thread who only want the one additional feature to make them happy and add them then the EDGE becomes a VPxx and no longer costs $799.

I agree. I think people might be underestimating the amount of complexity and work that would need to go into built-in test patters. What patterns? Just a "simple" 1:1 pixel mapping/overscan test pattern would need to work at: at least 1080p60, 1080p24, 1080i60, 720p60, and if I understand the "auto resolution by device preferred EDID" feature, then also at arbitrary resolutions and frame rates. Not simple to get that exactly right. Then you get into any color based patterns - YCbCr 4:2:2, YCbCr 4:4:4, RGB 4:4:4, etc would be needed, because you don't know what the display might or might not accept depending on the EDID it sends. I have found that while VP built-in test patterns are useful to me, they are not essential as you need calibration disks anyway to see the whole video chain.

Interestingly if we take 10 people on this thread who only want the one additional feature to make them happy and add them then the EDGE becomes a VPxx and no longer costs $799.

I just want it to work :) Hopefully Josh has good news for me.

Neko

Josh, another point I would love to have some clarification on. This one relates to "Display Profiles" which I note the EDGE does not appear to have, although mention of some sort of equivalent functionality has been mentioned in this thread.

Specifically, can I do what I am now doing with my VP50 as detailed below? The reason I am keen on the EDGE is that I would gain MNR, FD and EE without having to upgrade to a Pro.

Hi Josh,

Well, I set about doing this and I can report complete success. It will even switch/register an input change between 1080p50, 1080p60 and 1080p24 on the same input .

I found it much easier to actually have all my inputs active and then select each one in turn before setting/adjusting all the parameters I wanted/needed to and then allocating it to a profile. Trying to set it up without doing it this way can lead to not being able to select some FR options/settings, which is what I was (obviously) doing wrong before.

Having a front panel display proved invaluable in doing all of this as I would often loose the display when going from one input to the next. Being able to see and set up the resolution and frame rate with the front panel display is a godsend . Just no way you can do that with a Radiance XD (I had one for a while) which has no display at all.

It's really amazing really what can be customised with this thing (VP50). I now have 10 profiles set up, dealing with input resolutions between 480i, 576i/p, 720p, and 1080i/p50/60/24 running over 5 input sources and outputting 1080p/50/60/24, with each input locked to the incoming source Frame Rate.

Link to original post here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14278440#post14278440).

Thanks.

EDGE does not have Display Profiles. If you wanted to change between three given output formats (1080p-24/50/60), you as the user would need to make this change. The easiest way to do this would be to use the discrete IR codes.

Keep in mind that EDGE is NOT a replacement for the VP50PRO, or any VP line products, and it is intended to target a different user.

This sounds like it's going to be a must-have product, especially if you live in PAL territories, as most displays do a poor job deinterlacing PAL signals. I have a few questions though:

Firstly, is there any chance of getting 48Hz output added to the box? None of my current displays will take 1080p24, but I can send 48Hz to a CRT.


It is very unlikely that we will support 48Hz output on EDGE.

Secondly, is the processing done in 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 colour? MPEG video may be 4:2:0, but games are 4:4:4 and the difference is noticeable in my setup.

Processing is done in YCbCr 4:2:2.

Thirdly, you say the game mode is ‘less than a frame’ for processing. Is that less than 16ms (many games are 60fps) or 32ms?

Game Mode is less than 1 frame (less than 16ms).

Up...

Josh, do you have answers to my questions ?

Thanks :)

Richard.

The 33% vertical stretch is supported on EDGE. Horizontal squeeze for fixed lens anamorphic configurations is not supported on EDGE (it is on the VP50/VP50PRO).

I would be in the same boat, how hard is it to switch in and out of game mode?

There are discrete codes to switch in and out of Game Mode. This can also be done via the GUI.

A PS3 can output 1080p-24 for BDs. There is nothing Game Mode can do to this signal so you would probably not need to or want to switch out of Game Mode for your PS3.

Thanks Josh, that is great when can the EDGE be purchased.

When Public Beta is complete.

I have read the first page a couple times but, still can't figure out if this thing allows separate settings for each input?

Yes, it does.

Josh, a question about the EDGE and its deinterlacing capabilities if I may, hopefully you have some useful information.

I own a large collection of anime on DVD and am not planning to upgrade it all to Bluray. So I need a good scaler that will properly deinterlace anime. Which isn't always very straightforward as anime isn't always using standard cadence.

Add to this that I purchase my discs in France (PAL standard), which have been transcoded from NTSC to PAL to result in a right mess for any deinterlacer to get through.

They look fine on a CRT screen, but I notice glitches when played back using a PC and WinDVD. And I don't like the results I see on a large Sony LCD screen.

I was advised to buy the latest Oppo DVD player, which uses an ABT chipset, but then I read it has some problems with PAL discs in general.

How do you expect the EDGE to handle this kind of material? Is it an option for me to look at?

Thanks!

Neko

Not sure what issues the ABT102 has with PAL content. EDGE is based on the ABT2010 which does have newer code than the ABT102 and should make it a perfect solution for you, regardless of whether or not the content is PAL or NTSC.

Does the EDGE have the "image shift" feature ? (i.e. shifting a 2.35 image within a 16:9 frame. This had been available in your VPs since the HD+ time)

Thanks.

Image Shift is not a feature on EDGE.

Is the 3D DNR user adjustable and/or saved per input?

The 3D DNR in the video decoder is not user adjustable.

Josh,

Will the EDGE have any technology to deal with MPEG compression artifacts? Mosqito noise is somewhat noticeable on my DirecTV feed but the MPEG compression artifacts are THE most bothersome to me, and would be great to get rid of.

Josh:

It looks like you're doing a good job of wrapping a video processor around the new scaler IC :)

I'm sorry if this is a reask from earlier -- I'm wondering if the Edge is capable of doing frame rate conversion, ie taking 1080i60 material that's been telecined and pass back the original 24p content? This would be very good for those of us that have a fair number of HD movies from the premium movie channels that haven't made it to high definition media yet.

Also, I love the audio only out.

Best,

Josh,

Will the EDGE have any technology to deal with MPEG compression artifacts? Mosqito noise is somewhat noticeable on my DirecTV feed but the MPEG compression artifacts are THE most bothersome to me, and would be great to get rid of.

EDGE does have Mosquito Noise Reduction which does address MPEG compression artifacts.

Which one is better looking on paper DVDO's newly announced EDGE or Gefen TV Scaler Pro with Realta?

Josh:

It looks like you're doing a good job of wrapping a video processor around the new scaler IC :)

I'm sorry if this is a reask from earlier -- I'm wondering if the Edge is capable of doing frame rate conversion, ie taking 1080i60 material that's been telecined and pass back the original 24p content? This would be very good for those of us that have a fair number of HD movies from the premium movie channels that haven't made it to high definition media yet.

Also, I love the audio only out.

Best,

Not only can EDGE output 1080p-24 from 1080i content, it can do this with 480i, 480p and 720p content using our Precision Deinterlacing and Progressive Cadence Detection. No other video processor on the market (other than the VP50/VP50PRO :) ) can do this.

EDGE does have Mosquito Noise Reduction which does address MPEG compression artifacts.

Maybe I'm using the wrong term, I'd like to be able to address the problem where the image brings up very briefly into smaller tiles or 'blocks' during fast movement. Does the EDGE address that or do I have to step up into the VP series?

How often does Gefen introduce firmware for their products? How was their first TV scaler pro? I think everyone knows the answer and there is no point in stating the obvious. ;)

Which one is better looking on paper DVDO's newly announced EDGE or Gefen TV Scaler Pro with Realta?

On paper, EDGE is better and cosmetically, EDGE is better. I do have a slight bias though...:)

Maybe I'm using the wrong term, I'd like to be able to address the problem where the image brings up very briefly into smaller tiles or 'blocks' during fast movement. Does the EDGE address that or do I have to step up into the VP series?

You are referring to block noise reduction. This is not on the VP50PRO, which the ABT2010 ASIC in EDGE is based upon.

I have a question for Josh. Will the Edge have the nice INFO button that tells us everything? :) Like the 50pro and your other VPs...

I have a question for Josh. Will the Edge have the nice INFO button that tells us everything? :) Like the 50pro and your other VPs...

Of course!

I'm sold. :D

Serisouly though, some don't realize how important it is to see everything that is going on at a touch of a button. The Edge having this feature is another feather in its hat... ;)

You are referring to block noise reduction. This is not on the VP50PRO, which the ABT2010 ASIC in EDGE is based upon.
Excellent!

Excellent!

I think you misread Josh's response. He said the EDGE does *not* have BNR.

The 33% vertical stretch is supported on EDGE. Horizontal squeeze for fixed lens anamorphic configurations is not supported on EDGE (it is on the VP50/VP50PRO).

Thank you josh !

But what about the second question which was :



But what if we use no anamorphic lens ? Can we zoom (or use underscan) 66% horizontally and vertically to reduce a 16/9 image in order to be totally visible in a 2.35:1 screen ?

On the VP50Pro, the underscan is limited to 75% which is not enough and zoom start at 100% with is not enough too...

What about the Edge ?

Richard.

Thanks again,

Richard.