I am in the process of setting up my home theater. I currently have a TV, and I have a Receiver in mind as well.

I have: Samsung LN-46A750
Want to get: Yamaha RX-V663

I'm going to connect my TV to receiver via HDMI. Then I want to hook up my content (ripped movies, music, photos, etc..) to my TV. I was thinking about an HTPC, but that route seems to be expensive and probably not worth the effort.

So, I'm thinking now about getting either:

1) Popcorn Hour with a PVR (most likely the Hauppage, or possibly GB-PVR)
2) iStar mini with a PVR as well, same set up as above most likely.
3) TVIX HD-M6500A with a TV Tuner to record and pause cable.

Now they all have their pros and cons, so I want you guys to help me decide if you can.

Here are some of the pros/cons I found per device.

Popcorn Hour
Pros: Its got internal storage (sold separately). Plays all formats, and HD content. Small, small carbon footprint. Good forums and updates are frequent.
Cons: Internal storage is IDE and there is no SATA... There is also no way to record and pause unless getting an external PVR. The main thing though is I hear the UI is crap, and if your putting an internal hard drive some people have had heat issues.

iStar
Pros: Plays all formats, and HD. Tiniest of the devices. Takes eSATA devices for external storage.
Cons: Storage is external. No PVR.

TVIX M6500A
Pros: Plays all formats, and HD. Nice LCD. Good remote. Takes eSATA. Can buy a TV Tuner to record and pause. Good UI!!
Cons: External storage.

What do you guys think?

PoPCorn Hour
There is a new version coming up with SATA, USB Slave and HDMI 1.3 and a power button. Interface is based on HTML which tends to slow down operations. Internal hard drive contains NMT apps, without it, many options are not available.

iSTAR
Same comments as popCorn. Both are NMT's so except from hardware do exactly the same (firmware identical)

TViX
Has internal SATA driver. Why is it not listed in your pros if you claim PCH internal IDE is a con? Are you looking at things properly? :-) (It;s not eSATA, that's external SATA so i'm talking about internal drive). Tuner is DVB-T (not the usual tuner people expect) and it can record but has no features like pauseTV and the likes... It should not count as a major pro, just a useful one...

Cons: External storage?
I don't get that at all... It has an internal drive option.

Maybe do some more homework :-)
www.mpcclub.com (check the reviews on all three there to get a first impression and then look at the forums here or at MPC to the progress made so far to enhance...)

Enjoy

I would add to your list CS615 (Ziova). It works quite nicely, is actively and well supported and will soon have SATA capability, currently the internal HDD needs to be PATA.

PoPCorn Hour
There is a new version coming up with SATA, USB Slave and HDMI 1.3 and a power button. Interface is based on HTML which tends to slow down operations. Internal hard drive contains NMT apps, without it, many options are not available.

iSTAR
Same comments as popCorn. Both are NMT's so except from hardware do exactly the same (firmware identical)

TViX
Has internal SATA driver. Why is it not listed in your pros if you claim PCH internal IDE is a con? Are you looking at things properly? :-) (It;s not eSATA, that's external SATA so i'm talking about internal drive). Tuner is DVB-T (not the usual tuner people expect) and it can record but has no features like pauseTV and the likes... It should not count as a major pro, just a useful one...

Cons: External storage?
I don't get that at all... It has an internal drive option.

Maybe do some more homework :-)
www.mpcclub.com (check the reviews on all three there to get a first impression and then look at the forums here or at MPC to the progress made so far to enhance...)

Enjoy

Yeah sorry Im going a little crazy from all the research i've been doing. It seems you are right and it does support an internal SATA. But you have caught my attention with the DVB-T because I assumed I would be able to pause. I think I'm now either going to wait for the new Popcorn Hour (don't know when thats coming out), but if I get impatient I see myself getting the iStar with Hauppage... I have a month before I can make a purchase anyway...

If you are really looking for more of a PVR type of experience you may want to check out the SageTV HD Media Extender. It will run on XP and DOES NOT REQUIRE Vistaster! SageTV is made for PVR functionality and it is compatible with a very long list of video capture cards and devices. Since this is a media extender you can view your channel guide and schedule recordings to be made by your PC right from your couch. You can not do that with any of the network media players!

If you are really looking for more of a PVR type of experience you may want to check out the SageTV HD Media Extender. It will run on XP and DOES NOT REQUIRE Vistaster! SageTV is made for PVR functionality and it is compatible with a very long list of video capture cards and devices. Since this is a media extender you can view your channel guide and schedule recordings to be made by your PC right from your couch. You can not do that with any of the network media players!

Wouldn't that be the same thing as if I hooked up a Popcorn Hour, or an Istar, with a Hauppage HD-PVR? Except SageTV would be more expensive cause of license, extender, + it still needs a PVR. Let me know if im wrong

Wouldn't that be the same thing as if I hooked up a Popcorn Hour, or an Istar, with a Hauppage HD-PVR? Except SageTV would be more expensive cause of license, extender, + it still needs a PVR. Let me know if im wrong
No it would not be the same. With the networked media players (iStar, Popcorn Hour ect) you will have to install some sort of program guide (usually provide by the video capture device, TitanTV is the most common) on your PC and you will need to do all of the scheduling using the keyboard at your PC. Networked media players just play the video that you ask them to play, they have no role what so ever in the viewing of your channel guide and they certainly have nothing to do with scheduling a recording. You can sit there and stare at a iStar or any networked media player, do incantations or whatever and you will never be able to get them to schedule your HD PVR to make a recording! All they can do is play the video on your HDDs.

Media extenders on the other hand, such as the SageTV HD Media Extender, extend the PVR GUI on your PC to your TV screen. With Sage for instance, the Sage software provides the PVR interface on your PC, which BTW is much more useful and complete than that which will come with the HD PVR, AND it extends it to your TV so that you can sit on your couch, view the channel guide and schedule recordings. You most definitely CAN NOT do this with the iStar or Popcorn Hour or HDX 900 or EVA 8000 or TVIX.

If you want PVR capability at your TV using your PC to capture video at a remote location then a media extender is what you want not a network media player. Networked media players do just what their title suggests and nothing more, they play streamed media (video, music ect.) period. You CAN NOT schedule a recording with them.

I suggested SageTV because it does not lock you into Vistaster and it does not limit you to viewing DRM'd video files and it natively decodes a wide variety of video formats. It also supports h264 which is what you will need since you are getting the HD PVR. Do yourself a favor and go look at the SageTV HD Media Extender. It does everything that a networked media player does and a whole lot more!

Network media players and Media Extenders are fundamentally different and now before you plunk down money would be a good time to learn and understand how they differ.

Actually today you can get almost complete access to GB-PVR through the Popcorn Hour and other NMT devices. GB-PVR and SageTV are pretty much equal on PVR and media functionality, except GB-PVR does not have any client or server licenses involved and you won't need to purchase new version upgrades to get new functionality GB-PVR offers better net radio on the extender too.

And yes GB-PVR supports recording on the HD-PVR and streaming the m2ts files to the Popcorn Hour all through the GB-PVR NMT client interface (mvpmcx2)

Of course you can turn off the GB-PVR interface too run the native NMT interface anytime, so really the NMT offers both PVR and Media Extender functionality.

Martin

Actually today you can get almost complete access to GB-PVR through the Popcorn Hour and other NMT devices. GB-PVR and SageTV are pretty much equal on PVR and media functionality, except GB-PVR does not have any client or server licenses involved and you won't need to purchase new version upgrades to get new functionality GB-PVR offers better net radio on the extender too.

And yes GB-PVR supports recording on the HD-PVR and streaming the m2ts files to the Popcorn Hour all through the GB-PVR NMT client interface (mvpmcx2)

Of course you can turn off the GB-PVR interface too run the native NMT interface anytime, so really the NMT offers both PVR and Media Extender functionality.

Martin
I had forgotten about GB PVR and yes it is supposed to work with the Popcorn hour but in their own words (taken fromt the GB PVR wiki):
Installation can be complicated this is really the first time anything like this has been attempted. Syabas has said that they will provide support for user apps which should make this easier, although it is unlikely they will assume any risks. Pressure from GBPVR users might help to get user apps added quicker.

I have used GB PVR and no it is not as good as SageTV or BTV, yes it is a good PVR software app especially since it is free but IMO it is not as full featured.

It seems that Popcorn Hour + GB PVR can provide Media Extender capability but it is not fully integrated (relying on third party involvement) or supported and may be problematic.

I refuse to get into the dance on PVR software on which of SageTV, GB-PVR, BeyondTV, MythTV, MediaPortal offers better functionality, stability etc, since there are too many fanboys for each, it is too often driven by personal requirements and none are near perfect. However on topic now, IMHO the SageTV HD 100 as a extender is too limited for this thread because it has no USB or internal drive it doesn't even have native file share or UPnP support, it uses an older Sigma 862x chip which limits the media it plays and it requires a SageTV server and you need to keep upgrading licenses to get new functionality. The last I heard it wasn't even RoHS approved which is unacceptable to me so it isn't even available outside North America.

I will agree the NMT client is harder to set up because it does require basic knowledge of Windows file sharing and permissions which is new to a lot of GB-PVR users so it takes time to follow the instruction but a few support questions should help even a newbie through this. Syabas did state they were going to make this easier. Even then this is a one time setup, well worth it when you consider the advantages.

Since I am also the author of the mvpmc client I can also tell you it is not specifically a GB-PVR client. Work is progressing on VDR support which is a Linux PVR using the same protocol as GB-PVR. mvpmc can even support BeyondTV should someone want to continue that abandoned BeyondTV skin project. MythTV and SlimServer integration is also hoped for assuming Syabas follows through on some things that we have discussed. Two years ago when I started with the idea of a generic client for PVR servers I did contact Narflex and he wasn't interested so the SageTV extender remains just a SageTV extender. I expect support for mvpmc will continue beyond the firmware updates for Sage extender or for the NMT for that matter.

Also back on the PVR topic for this thread I also did contact DViCO, as I do most for media extenders about running the mvpmc client on their TViX 6500 (adding to the Hauppauge MediaMVP, NMT platform, and the Roku Photobridge) but unfortunately they have chosen not to respond to my emails, which is why I personally support the NMT platform devices.

Martin

I refuse to get into the dance on PVR software on which of SageTV, GB-PVR, BeyondTV, MythTV, MediaPortal offers better functionality, stability etc, since there are too many fanboys for each, it is too often driven by personal requirements and none are near perfect. However on topic now, IMHO the SageTV HD 100 as a extender is too limited for this thread because it has no USB or internal drive it doesn't even have native file share or UPnP support, it uses an older Sigma 862x chip which limits the media it plays and it requires a SageTV server and you need to keep upgrading licenses to get new functionality. The last I heard it wasn't even RoHS approved which is unacceptable to me so it isn't even available outside North America.

I will agree the NMT client is harder to set up because it does require basic knowledge of Windows file sharing and permissions which is new to a lot of GB-PVR users so it takes time to follow the instruction but a few support questions should help even a newbie through this. Syabas did state they were going to make this easier. Even then this is a one time setup, well worth it when you consider the advantages.

Since I am also the author of the mvpmc client I can also tell you it is not specifically a GB-PVR client. Work is progressing on VDR support which is a Linux PVR using the same protocol as GB-PVR. mvpmc can even support BeyondTV should someone want to continue that abandoned BeyondTV skin project. MythTV and SlimServer integration is also hoped for assuming Syabas follows through on some things that we have discussed. Two years ago when I started with the idea of a generic client for PVR servers I did contact Narflex and he wasn't interested so the SageTV extender remains just a SageTV extender. I expect support for mvpmc will continue beyond the firmware updates for Sage extender or for the NMT for that matter.

Also back on the PVR topic for this thread I also did contact DViCO, as I do most for media extenders about running the mvpmc client on their TViX 6500 (adding to the Hauppauge MediaMVP, NMT platform, and the Roku Photobridge) but unfortunately they have chosen not to respond to my emails, which is why I personally support the NMT platform devices.

Martin
You are obviously deeply involved and have put a great deal of work into providing PVR capability to networked media players and for that I thank you. I truly do not understand why network media player vendors do not fully fund and support PVR functionality but they do not.

I have had network media players for years now and the ONLY reason I am looking at or even suggesting SageTV HD Media Extender is because it is the only fully supported and integrated PVR extender that DOES NOT require Vistaster. I am not a FANBOY of SageTV or BTV (been using this for 3+ yrs) or GB PVR. Truth be told IMO all of them are wanting in one way or another but in my experience GB PVR is not as full featured and I have found the constant re-signing up for the channel guide to be a bit of a pain. Maybe that has been fixed but up until about 7 months ago it had not.

I do agree that GB PVR + Popcorn Hour is probably a reasonable solution for providing PVR functionality albiet a little more complicated to implement and not fully integrated.

Interesting post this is...

Well I have owned (or currently own) all three of these devices so here's my two cents:

Owned Two A-100 popcorn hours---returned them both, very unsatisfied for cost/build quality and their firmware was mediocre ad the device felt "laggy" to me; clearly a 'first generation' device. [The A110 looks a little better, but I'd take an istar 1.1 or 1.3 anyday over either one for my 'price to performance' expectations.]

Own Two M-6500A TVix Rev2's, one with T410 OTA HD tuner -- VERY SATISFIED, even though it's pricey [but the badeip firmware mods are really exceptional i must add, and the boot speed is much faster with that newest badeip FW, too]

Own an Istar HD 1.1--if you're cost-sensitive, this is the one to get--or the 1.3 version I suppose, but I don;t need the 1.3 features. Comes with a nice "data+power" cable to power a SATA HDD directly without enclosure. I also like that the NMT apps are modular/optional, that is, you install them on-demand if you attach a HDD [leads to better memory usage!] a little 'mickey mouse', but fine by me. Also, the real physical power switch is a nice touch--and on the cheapest unit!

However, I'm looking now at the Tomacro limHD310s ( $300 at http://www.datoptic.com/cgi-bin/web.cgi?product=limHD310s&detail=yes). This looks like a better-priced alternative to the M-6500A TViX. But it's kinda unproven...

I like the tomacro limhd310 but Hi-Jack hates them and he is the authority on media players, if he gives it a vote of confidence i will buy it over the tvix 6500, but i bet he doesn't

Correction, I do not hate them... Just don't see their products to be "as good" as the competition... They
are working on it... We have recently launched our feedback on the new 360 model and they promised to
work on several of these so we'll see... I need a reason to recommend products :-)

We never tell people what to buy... We leave the choice to you but feature wise Tomacro is far behind on the competition. The only benefit they have is the concentration around HD formats which make them a little bit better than the rest but the lack of features and sources to be used in general kill that advantage...

Ziova... don't even consider it... They will redraw from markets and sell in AU only.. Recently announced they drop US market...

TViX... struggling with firmware updates... still the fastest player to handle and in general the most easy one (due to limits of options partially and concentration on local playback without internet options)

NMT: Best value for money nowadays but hardware wise / convenience they lack finesse... (power off/on by remote is only supported by eGreat and we stick to our opinion the data partition of the internal hard drive should become NTFS Read/Write as option besides ext2/3 to benefit from the PC slave connection without the need to install unstable Linux drivers on a windows OS...

Ranting... ranting... :-)
Just my 2 cents
Still won't make the decision for you... my opinion is not the same as other experienced users...

Read Hi-Jack's match up and I personally think that the Popcorn Hour A-110 and HDX 1000 are the two devices that have my attention. The Popcorn Hour for their support, and the HDX 1000 for the build and features. I'll probably be ordering the HDX 1000 all things considered, but I will be crossing my fingers in the hopes it will get here safely from Singapore.

-Chad


FYI I also really liked the comparison chart with features of all the NMT's available (or a lot of them anyway) here:

http://networkedmediatank.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page#Product_Comparison

I'm looking at getting a pch a110 or an istarHD 1.1, need SATA drive support

They both offer similar features, except that you can put the hdd inside the pch and it has 1.3 hdmi

So pricewise. pch a110 = $215, istar1.1 = $160 (would need to buy an eSata enclosure though, so about $30) = $190. Istar is about $10 less to ship to Canada also, so in the end I'm looking at about a $30 difference.

So do I need hdmi 1.3... no I don't think so, my receiver and tv can't take advantage of it anyway. Do I really want to put a 1TB hdd inside the PCH due to heat issues.???

So my decision comes down to cost and looks... hmm

Well, since I started this thread I figure I'd tell you all what I decided to go with.

After a long process of comparing my needs/wants with all the devices that are offered, I ended up choosing the Popcorn Hour A-110. It seemed to best fit my set up, except for a couple of complaints like lack of Blu-Ray and I've been hearing the UI was not the best. Anyway, I just received my PCH A-110 in the mail two days ago. It wasn't as straight forward as I though it would be to set up, but I got it working pretty fast. I am loving it! Once I got it to work, I actually started feeling like my home theater was reaching its completion :D...

In terms of the UI, I have not tested out any other device so the UI, to me, seems fine. Its intuitive and not as slow as I have been hearing. Maybe it will start to get annoying once I've had it longer, but its been great so far!

I don't need a Blu-Ray player, the whole reason I bought the PCH was so that I would not need one. Any DVD's that I have will just be ripped into my library.

So heres my setup:

My TV (Samsung LN-46A750) is hooked up to an HDMI switch. I then have my cable DVR and PCH A-110 connected to the switch as well. Thats it... 4 devices make up my living room home theater. I connected the PCH to my router via Powerline, so I don't have cables running throughout the house.

My desktop running Vista Premium acts as my server. I installed 1TB strictly for my media, and that drive is being shared wirelessly throughout the house (and wired to the PCH too).

I hope this helps someone, I didnt compare any of the devices in my review because I only have the PCH, but in my opinion its a great device that I can recommend!! My only complaint is that it can't act as a DVR... So I need to pay my cable company a rental fee or add another device, which I'd prefer not to.

I'm looking at getting a pch a110 or an istarHD 1.1, need SATA drive support

They both offer similar features, except that you can put the hdd inside the pch and it has 1.3 hdmi

So pricewise. pch a110 = $215, istar1.1 = $160 (would need to buy an eSata enclosure though, so about $30) = $190. Istar is about $10 less to ship to Canada also, so in the end I'm looking at about a $30 difference.

So do I need hdmi 1.3... no I don't think so, my receiver and tv can't take advantage of it anyway. Do I really want to put a 1TB hdd inside the PCH due to heat issues.???

So my decision comes down to cost and looks... hmm

Hi Moosebox,

Actually, FYI you mentioned "would need to buy an eSata enclosure though", and actually that is not true if you get a cool hard disk drive like a WD greenpower drive or comparably cool-running drive. This is what I do. I own a istar mini hd v1.1 and it comes with the esata cable and you can just hook up the HDD directly--power and data are fed to the drive, no extra expense. It looks a little 'mickey mouse' but it works and costs nothing extra... just my two cents...

Hi Moosebox,

Actually, FYI you mentioned "would need to buy an eSata enclosure though", and actually that is not true if you get a cool hard disk drive like a WD greenpower drive or comparably cool-running drive. This is what I do. I own a istar mini hd v1.1 and it comes with the esata cable and you can just hook up the HDD directly--power and data are fed to the drive, no extra expense. It looks a little 'mickey mouse' but it works and costs nothing extra... just my two cents...

Yea that's true, if I did want to save even more money I could just leave it out bare, but I would much rather prefer an enclosure. I found a nice one for $25, it actually looks a little (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817193046) like the PCH, so I'll probably get that plus the istar, save about $45 in the end.

I like the tomacro limhd310 but Hi-Jack hates them and he is the authority on media players, if he gives it a vote of confidence i will buy it over the tvix 6500, but i bet he doesn't

I don't think Hi-Jack hates it... It just their limHD200i supported was terrible. That is the fact.

I do have the M6500A, LimHD310s i like it both...

For network M6500A is hand down.

where M2TS raw file (ripped) limHD310s can down convert on fly and output to SPDIF. where M6500A still struggles with this 7.1 (DTS-HD and True-HD)

So if you are looking for networking M6500A otherwise limHD-310s work just fine.

I can see an effort from Tomacro... within 5 months the firmware of this limHD310s going from 1.00 to 1.45 with five intervals, which is not too bad.

I have a port multiplier enclosure with 4x 1.5TB HDD (Seagate) and a USB to eSATA adapter now my limHD310s can see 6.0TB

I guess I can have up to 16TB when WD release 2.0TB HDD :-)...

where no matter what i do M6500A only sees TWO drive... hhmmm

Well, since I started this thread I figure I'd tell you all what I decided to go with.

After a long process of comparing my needs/wants with all the devices that are offered, I ended up choosing the Popcorn Hour A-110. It seemed to best fit my set up, except for a couple of complaints like lack of Blu-Ray and I've been hearing the UI was not the best. Anyway, I just received my PCH A-110 in the mail two days ago. It wasn't as straight forward as I though it would be to set up, but I got it working pretty fast. I am loving it! Once I got it to work, I actually started feeling like my home theater was reaching its completion :D...

In terms of the UI, I have not tested out any other device so the UI, to me, seems fine. Its intuitive and not as slow as I have been hearing. Maybe it will start to get annoying once I've had it longer, but its been great so far!

I don't need a Blu-Ray player, the whole reason I bought the PCH was so that I would not need one. Any DVD's that I have will just be ripped into my library.

So heres my setup:

My TV (Sam sung LN-46A750) is hooked up to an HDMI switch. I then have my cable DVR and PCH A-110 connected to the switch as well. Thats it... 4 devices make up my living room home theater. I connected the PCH to my router via Powerline, so I don't have cables running throughout the house.

My desktop running Vista Premium acts as my server. I installed 1TB strictly for my media, and that drive is being shared wirelessly throughout the house (and wired to the PCH too).

I hope this helps someone, I didnt compare any of the devices in my review because I only have the PCH, but in my opinion its a great device that I can recommend!! My only complaint is that it can't act as a DVR... So I need to pay my cable company a rental fee or add another device, which I'd prefer not to.


I have got the same TV as well ( LN46A750). Currently i am streaming the movies from the PC upstairs directly to the TV( via DLNA). I have Linksys hacked to DWRT and set up in Client bridge mode and hard wired to TV.

Are you able to stream H.264 and .mkv files from the PC to the TV via PCH? I may pull the plug as well since the TV's DLNA does not read these formats.

Thanks,
SB

So if you are looking for networking M6500A

Hi there...I have a PCH A-110, a TViX 4100, and an older TViX...whilst I love the TViX under all aspects it cannot handle Blu Ray rips. The A-110 can but it struggles with in-DVD menus.

Can you tell me if your M-6500A handles Blu Ray rips streamed through a wired network?

I only use DVD Fab Express Beta.

Thanks,

Andrew.