I'm at a bit of a loss, just about got everything sounding how I want it but the lead vocals sound like the S'es are overly emphasized.
Everything else is a natural as I can imagine, the cymbals sound excellent there's no "brightness" to speak of. The S'es are annoying though. No difference between M/C and 2ch.

What I can look for as a source to this problem? Why do just the vocals exhibit this character?

The room is reasonably treated, first & second reflection points at side walls and ceiling, bass traps etc.

I'm at a bit of a loss, just about got everything sounding how I want it but the lead vocals sound like the S'es are overly emphasized.
Everything else is a natural as I can imagine, the cymbals sound excellent there's no "brightness" to speak of. The S'es are annoying though. No difference between M/C and 2ch.

What I can look for as a source to this problem? Why do just the vocals exhibit this character?

The room is reasonably treated, first & second reflection points at side walls and ceiling, bass traps etc.

It's a phenomenon called sibilance. It is usually a problem on the recording side.

It has a lot to do with mike placement, and the type/quality of equipment used.

There is equipment that will de-ess a recording. It is all up to the recording engineer, artist, and producer whether they choose to use it or not.

What speakers?

What speakers?

Paradigm Signature S4's, C3 & ADP's.

Sibilance causes the microphone capsule to "overload" for lack of a better term. The best solution is better mics. Another one is an electronic device called a de-esser.

Why wouldn't you want your cymbals to sound bright? That is how cymbals should sound.

Sibilance causes the microphone capsule to "overload" for lack of a better term. The best solution is better mics. Another one is an electronic device called a de-esser.

Why wouldn't you want your cymbals to sound bright? That is how cymbals should sound.

I know that, I use bright as a term for over emphasized treble. I don't understand how cymbals can sound so natural and focused in the soundstage and yet the S'es on vocals are literally shot out at you.

I haven't changed my speakers or room for quite a while, but have changed the pre-amp quite a few times and I've had gear where this problem wasn't as prevelant as the last couple of pre's. I have moved the mains a bit but other than that no changes.

I'm just trying to see of there's causes that my apply in my situation so I can correct it. I can accept the recording part of that equation, but I'm curious if there's system set up causes that might also be at play.

It doesn't happen on all voices, does it?

It is usually a problem on the recording side.

Agreed, though some speakers have a "presence" peak around 6 to 8 KHz and that can cause this too. The best way to tell if it's in the speakers is to use ETF or Room EQ Wizard etc to measure the in-room speaker response.

--Ethan

It doesn't happen on all voices, does it?

No that's true, and I know that's a recording flaw, heck I've got recordings of the same artist where the S'es vary from track to track.

My puzzle is that they seem to be "hotter" than usual and than what I've had before with the same speakers.

I do use Audyssey Pro and usually you can use the Audyssey house curve to tame the highs a bit but this is the same with Audyssey, Audyssey Flat and Audyssey L/R Bypass. You would think the bypass option would be the most affected with 2ch but it isn't.

I'm going to re-run it anyways to be on the safe side, maybe there's something it's doing on the bottom end that's bringing this problem to the foreground?

Would speaker toe in or placement have any affect? Because that's about the only thing that has physically changed in my room since the S'es were what I considered normal.

Speaker toe in and placement can have a significant effect on how certain frequency ranges are perceived at the seats. I agree with the previous posters: measure the response at your listening position... it sounds like certain frequencies are being over emphasized.

I'm sorry. I misundrstood. I thought you were doing the recording. That's why I recommended what I recommended. If you are simply doing the listening then the sibilance has already been recorded. The only way to remove it would be to use an equalizer. The problem is that the equalizer would have to be readjusted for a different recording that had sibilance that bothered you. Feel good that your system is accurate enough to expose everything in the recording. Not much you can do about the recording itself.

I'm sorry. I misundrstood. I thought you were doing the recording. That's why I recommended what I recommended. If you are simply doing the listening then the sibilance has already been recorded. The only way to remove it would be to use an equalizer. The problem is that the equalizer would have to be readjusted for a different recording that had sibilance that bothered you. Feel good that your system is accurate enough to expose everything in the recording. Not much you can do about the recording itself.

No worries, as I said above the problem is that they seem "hotter" or more noticeable than before. I'm just trying to figure out the possible cause not related to recordings. I know that part, it's not much different that comentators that don't control their "P's".

It must of had something to do with the Audyssey. Even tough the problem seemed pronounced with the mains bypassed (no EQ) I re-ran it and it seemed to do the trick.