I have the 5000 hooked up via optical and the 6 channel analog connections. I am using HDMI for video to a projector and component for video to a RP CRT. I am in the process of researching receivers. I plan on upgrading soon but I will probably wait until the fall to see what is released. For now I am sticking with my Yamaha RX-V1

I am using firmware 1.3. My receiver doesn't haven HDMI and only has 6 channel not 8 channel analog. Since the 5000 doesn't have any speaker settings, besides large/small/none, for the analog connection I don't use them too often. My current receiver doesn't touch the 6 channel inputs so the sound field is way off when I use the analog connection. True HD sounds great but the soundfield is off. The rear speakers are too loud and the timing is off. All the calbration I have done within the receiver is useless when using the 6 channel inputs. I calibrated my Pioneer SACD player and my HD-A1, replaced by the 5000, within the player and they sound great. I wish the 5000 had proper speaker calibration settings but it doesn't. That is the reason I am looking to upgrade my receiver.

Anyway, my question is about 2 channel audio. On the Dave Matthews BR, for example, there are 3 audio tracks, 5.1 True HD, 2 channel LPCM, and I believe 5.1 Dolby digital. The Eagles HD DVD also has an uncompressed 2 channel PCM track. Does the 5000 pass 2 channel LPCM over the optical connection or does it convert/compress it? I have the player set to audiophile bitstream. When I choose the 2 channel LPCM track and use the optical connection the receiver does say 48khz/PCM. I assume it is receiving the uncompressed 2 channel track but I wanted to make sure.

If that is the case then if I select the 2 channel LPCM track what is sent over the analog connection. Just the LF/RF or does it send the LFE as well?

Also, if there is a 5.1 PCM track, like on The Last Waltz BR, what will be transmitted over the optical conncection?

Does the 5000 pass 2 channel LPCM over the optical connection or does it convert/compress it?
It depends what the bitrate is. Optical/Coaxial only support up to 1.5Mbps.

It's likely the LPCM is higher than 1.5Mbps so it'll be compressed down to 1.5Mbps. It's not possible to send Uncompressed audio (if it's higher than 1.5Mbps) over Optical/Coaxial.

If that is the case then if I select the 2 channel LPCM track what is sent over the analog connection. Just the LF/RF or does it send the LFE as well?
As it's a 2 Channel mix there is no discrete LFE channel but the 2 Channel mix could have LFE mixed inside it.

Also, if there is a 5.1 PCM track, like on The Last Waltz BR, what will be transmitted over the optical conncection?
If it's still set to Audiophile Bitstream then you'll get Stereo or maybe DD5.1. I'm pretty sure Stereo.

In short use:

Analogue Multichannel for PCM or TrueHD
Optical/Coaxial for everything else

If you wish to keep it simple use Analogue Multichannel for everything. DTS-HD MA would be better over Analogue Multichannel too but as that requires HDMI (not Analogue) you'll only get the Lossy 1.5Mbps Core anyway, so it doesn't matter.

It depends what the bitrate is. Optical/Coaxial only support up to 1.5Mbps.

It's likely the LPCM is higher than 1.5Mbps so it'll be compressed down to 1.5Mbps. It's not possible to send Uncompressed audio (if it's higher than 1.5Mbps) over Optical/Coaxial.


As it's a 2 Channel mix there is no discrete LFE channel but the 2 Channel mix could have LFE mixed inside it.


If it's still set to Audiophile Bitstream then you'll get Stereo or maybe DD5.1. I'm pretty sure Stereo.

In short use:

Analogue Multichannel for PCM or TrueHD
Optical/Coaxial for everything else

If you wish to keep it simple use Analogue Multichannel for everything. DTS-HD MA would be better over Analogue Multichannel too but as that requires HDMI (not Analogue) you'll only get the Lossy 1.5Mbps Core anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Thanks for the response.

I understand it is, in theory, better to use the analog connections with multi channel PCM or True HD. But if the speaker settings can't be adjusted then having the extra resolution is pointless. One of the most important factors for overall sound quality is calibrating each speaker properly. Since that can't be done within the 5000 I prefer to use either two channel or the optical sound formats. I still can't believe how limited the 5000 speaker settings are. My Pioneer Elite DV-47ai dvd/sacd/dvd audio player can set each speaker up for volume, distance, size, etc. That player is about 6 years old and it has the ability. So does my HD-A1 HD DVD player. Talk about a step backwards.

My complaint is why did Samsung make this player with analog outputs, then update the firmware so it ouputs multi channel true hd, but not include any proper bass management or speaker calibration adjustments. :confused:
Samsung really dropped the ball in my opinion. I understand that HDMI is the future and that is why I am considering upgrading my receiver. My point is Samsung could have easily added the proper adjustments but decdied not to.

It depends what the bitrate is. Optical/Coaxial only support up to 1.5Mbps.

It's likely the LPCM is higher than 1.5Mbps so it'll be compressed down to 1.5Mbps. It's not possible to send Uncompressed audio (if it's higher than 1.5Mbps) over Optical/Coaxial.

SPDIF can only carry 2-channel PCM 48KHz, 96KHz and rarely 192KHz. 1.5mbps limit is for DTS. Theoritcally, optical cable can pass more bandwidth but lack of copy protection forces current implemenation limit.


My complaint is why did Samsung make this player with analog outputs, then update the firmware so it ouputs multi channel true hd, but not include any proper bass management or speaker calibration adjustments. :confused:
Samsung really dropped the ball in my opinion. I understand that HDMI is the future and that is why I am considering upgrading my receiver. My point is Samsung could have easily added the proper adjustments but decdied not to.

In a word, lack or processing power. Adding all those speaker management stuff requires more DSP power than we have currently inside the player. Remember AVRs usually have more than one dedicated DSPs for audio processing. Players usually has one DSP that has to process video decoding, audio decoding and minimal speaker management. You can't expect miracles on a sub-$1k players.

If you use Audiophile mode on optical, you will get 2-ch stereo for PCM tracks and HD DVD TrueHD tracks. You will get hidden DD 5.1 track for BD TrueHD and DTS core 5.1 for any DTS/DTS-HD tracks. Also DD 5.1 for DD+ tracks.

Like you, I stuck with analog 5.1 and optical for a few months. Now I picked up a Pioneer Elite 92 at a real bargain price a few weeks ago. Bitstreamed DTS-HD MA tracks are truely amazing now. Well worth the upgrade.

I find it hard to believe it is lack of processing power but I guess that could be the case.

The HD-A1 does it and it retailed for only $500.00 when it was first released. The A1 sounds incredible over the analogs once calibrated. The first time I watched the Matrix on HD DVD with True HD I couldn't believe how good it sounded. The same goes for the NIN HD DVD. I watched the Matrix HD DVD on the 5000 and I was less than impressed. The NIN HD DVD doesn't even work! :mad: A new firmware that causes a disc that use to work to stop working. Way to go Samsung. :rolleyes:

The 5000 was suppose to be Samsung's "flagship" player. I think they could have done a much better job with the analog portion of the player. If Samsung didn't care about the analog connection settings then why included them if they are basically useless. Maybe some people use them and are happy with them. In my set up I need to stand in the center of the room for the speakers to sound balanced. Unfortunately my main seating area is at the back of the room. It doesn't sound balance there. The surrounds are way too loud. Instead of them blending in with the fronts they stand out.

Anyway, I can listen to 2 channel PCM with music BR until I get a new receiver. I prefer most music in 2 channel anyways.

HD-A1 is a P4 PC packed inside. Not the same as the SoC solution Samsung is using. The flagship player of Samsung means it uses a better video processing chip, Reon.

Anyway, even if Samsung spent time to add such implementation by skipping over many other much needed fixes like decoding DTS-HD MA and fix 24Hz playback issue, analog still isn't that useful compare to HDMI bitstream. Why, majority of the receivers out there, even my Elite 92, don't convert analog 5.1 into digital for processing. The result is that you can't apply those fancy processing like PL IIx expansion, room EQ (which is the key for my system to sound much better than my old receiver) etc. In fact, my receiver actually can still use calibrated speaker level settings for analog in but nothing more. So, in the end, it's the AVR that really matters.

5000 uses BroadCom Soc that contains two DSPs on chip. These DSPs are used for decoding up to two video streams and two audio streams (PiP support) and everything else.

I know I need a new receiver. That is the answer. I have been fighting it for a long time because I still love my Yamaha RX-V1. It was their flagship receiver back in the day. I am worried about upgrading to a new receiver just for HDMI and the newer codecs only to go backwards in terms of sound quality. I know that probably won't be the case but I am concerned. So far I am leaning towards the Marantz 8002 but I am thinking I should wait until the fall to see whats new.

I know I need a new receiver. That is the answer. I have been fighting it for a long time because I still love my Yamaha RX-V1. It was their flagship receiver back in the day. I am worried about upgrading to a new receiver just for HDMI and the newer codecs only to go backwards in terms of sound quality. I know that probably won't be the case but I am concerned. So far I am leaning towards the Marantz 8002 but I am thinking I should wait until the fall to see whats new.

Just curious, is your LEVEL (SPEAKERS) Remote Button (pg. 67 - RX-V1 Manual) disabled, ... when you're in the ANALOG INput Mode???

For the longest time, I though my Yamaha RX-V1300 could not adjust SPKR LEVELS once I was in the ANALOG INput Mode. So I never tried since as you noted, the Toshiba HD-A1 and Toshiba HD-A35 provides Full Speaker Level Output Controls for Audio Calibration.

But once I got my Samsung BD-UP5000 and discovered that the 5k only give provides Test Tones and NO SPKR Level Controls, ... I decided to try out my Yamaha RX-V1300 SPKR LEVELS Controls.

I ran the BD-UP5000 Test Tones (used 75 dBc SPL all-around including LFE) ...

... than I entered my Yamaha SPKR Level Controls via my Remote and discovered that I COULD Adjust my ANALOG Speaker LEVELS SPL's :), or more specifically ...

1) Center
2) LT Side Surround
3) RT Side Surround
.... a) SW didn't do anything so I left that @ "0".
.... b) A slight increase @ my SVS 25-31PCi matched my 75 dBc all-around.

=============

NOTE: I discovered w/Foxbat121 question in another thread that my Samsung BD-UP5000 sample Surround TEST Tones are 3 dBc SPL HOT!!!

Confirmed after I resampled the Audio Test Tones @ 75 dBc SPL ALL-Around using ...

1) Yamaha Internal Audio Test Tones
2) HD DVD Digital Video Essentials Audio Test Tones
3) Blu-ray Digital Video Essentials Audio Test Tones

To match the above Audio Test Tones ALL-Around, ... required lowering the Surrounds SPL by 3 dBc.

Once I lowered the R&L Surrounds SPL's down, ... the Surrounds blended seamlessly into the soundfield like I'm use to w/Toshiba HD-A1 & HD-A35 TrueHD, etc. (The Samsung 5k Surround Audio Test Tones SPL now read 72 dBc vs. 75 dBc for Center & LFE)

Hopefully, you can adjust your RX-V1 Analog SPKR SPL Levels using your remote!

Phil

piturra, I've read the RX-V1 manual probably 100 times. I've calibrated the speaker levels within the RX-V1 but it doesn't apply them when using the 6 channel input.

Maybe I missed it but I highly doubt it. I will check when I get home tonight. Hopefully you are correct. That would be great!

Thanks a lot piturra! I am in the same boat as you. I never tried to adjust the levels when using 6 channel because I calibrated them within the player. I just assumed it couldn't be done because the manual says it doesn't do anything to the 6 channel inputs. I feel like such a dope. :o

I played around a bit last night with the RX-V1. It does appear that I CAN adjust the levels when using the 6 channel inputs. I didn't have time to dig deeper but it appears that I need to select 6 channel first. Then adjust the levels using the test tone in the 5000. What I need to figure out is if I calibrate the levels for the 6 channel inputs does that effect the digital inputs calibration as well?

I've calibrated the speaker levels using the receivers built in test tone for the digital inputs. Hopefully I can adjust the levels for both seperately. If that is the case I should be able to hold off upgrading the receiver for a bit longer. I probably will still upgrade because I want to be able to listen to the new DTS HD codecs. Also, The RX-V1 can't adjust the main speaker levels seperately. My main right speaker is about 3 db louder than the left. I have a big couch on the left side of the room and the right side is wide open. I also can't use the rear center speaker when using 6 channel. These are minor quirks I can live with for a bit longer.

If I can calibrate both seperately I will be able to listen to 5.1 True HD tracks properly until I do upgrade. Worst case scenario I can write down the levels for both the digital and analog calibrations and change them when I need to.

As long as you stick with mid to upper level receivers, the new ones definitely offer a lot more than your current AVR does,in addition to the new codec support. Most of them,even some entry levels like Yamaha RX-V663 and Onkyo 606, offer automatic tuning of not only indivisual channel levels but also room EQ settings etc. For example, my Pio Elite 92's MCACC (Pio's version of automatic tuning) can do speaker level adjustment(all channels), 9-point room EQ per channel, Standing Wave, delay/distance and full-band phase control. All you have to do is plug in the mic that comes with the receiver. And not to mention you reduce a lot of cable clutter behind the boxes by going all HDMI setup.

It figures! The receiver doesn't allow different level adjustments for different inputs. If I calibrate the levels using the test tone in the 5000 via the analogs then the digital inputs is way off according to the test tone in the receiver.

I am going to calibrate it both ways and just write down the settings. I'll have to change them depending on what I am going to listen to. That sucks but it is a solution until I get a new receiver.

Thanks a lot piturra! I am in the same boat as you. I never tried to adjust the levels when using 6 channel because I calibrated them within the player. I just assumed it couldn't be done because the manual says it doesn't do anything to the 6 channel inputs. I feel like such a dope. :o

Your welcome & Join the club!!! ;)

I played around a bit last night with the RX-V1. It does appear that I CAN adjust the levels when using the 6 channel inputs. I didn't have time to dig deeper but it appears that I need to select 6 channel first. Then adjust the levels using the test tone in the 5000. What I need to figure out is if I calibrate the levels for the 6 channel inputs does that effect the digital inputs calibration as well?

I've calibrated the speaker levels using the receivers built in test tone for the digital inputs. Hopefully I can adjust the levels for both seperately. If that is the case I should be able to hold off upgrading the receiver for a bit longer. I probably will still upgrade because I want to be able to listen to the new DTS HD codecs.

Just read your last post, ... my RX-V1300 was built later so it does have memory for the analog & digital INputs.

Also, The RX-V1 can't adjust the main speaker levels seperately.My main right speaker is about 3 db louder than the left. I have a big couch on the left side of the room and the right side is wide open.

You must USE the Balance Control under the Front Panel of your RX-V1.

I also can't use the rear center speaker when using 6 channel. These are minor quirks I can live with for a bit longer.

If I can calibrate both seperately I will be able to listen to 5.1 True HD tracks properly until I do upgrade. Worst case scenario I can write down the levels for both the digital and analog calibrations and change them when I need to.

Writing down the SPL Calibration for the digital & analog SPL Calibrations is, ... at the very least, ... a temp solution that, ... buys you time to save your milk-money for a new AV Receiver w/all the bells & whistles!!! :rolleyes:

FYI:
1. The only Audio OUTputs I'm using from my BD-UP5000 & HD-A35 will be ...
.... a) Analog** (w/SPL Level memory)
.... b) HDMI (Toshiba 62HM196 HDMI #1 & #2 INput > 62HM196 Optical Audio OUTput > Yamaha RX-V1300 CBL/SAT Optical INput w/SPL Level memory)

2) I don't use my BD-UP5000 to play my 4x3 SD DVDs, I relegated that chore to my HD-A35, since it properly displays the OAR.

3) **I just bought 6 (six) RCA Y Adapter cable (1 Female / 2 Male) to connect the BD-UP5000 & HD A35 to > 1 (one) Yamaha RX-V1300 6CH Analog INputs.
.... a) Should arrive next week sometime.

Phil

It figures! The receiver doesn't allow different level adjustments for different inputs. If I calibrate the levels using the test tone in the 5000 via the analogs then the digital inputs is way off according to the test tone in the receiver.

I only use the AV Receiver's Internal Test Tones as a Reference**.

To Calibrate my HD-A35 HDMI Audio OUTput > 62HM196 HDMI #2 > 62HM196 Optical Audio OUTput > RX-V1300 SAT/CBL Optical INput, ... I use either ...

1) Dolby Labs: Dolby Digital SD DVD 6.1 EX w/dedicated LFE Test Tones (OOP)
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6118/dolbylabsexploreourworloh6.jpg

or

2) Digital Video Essentials SD DVD

**Running the RX-V1300 Internal Test Tones reveals that all surround channels SPL closely match ± 2 dBc, except for the Rear Center which is hot by 4-5 dB.

Running the above Audio Reference Calibration SD DVDs, I match ALL 6.1 surround channels ± 0.25 dBc - so I just ignore what the results from my RX-V1300 Internal Test Tones SPL.

Playing any blockbuster DD/DTS-5.1/6.1 SD DVDs just confirms my Audio Reference Calibration by Dolby Labs & DVE!!!

NOTE: IMHO running the Internal AV Receiver's Test Tones does not account for the equipment(s) / cables attached to your digital INputs.

Phil

Thanks again for all the info piturra. I thought about using Y adaptors so I could connect two devices to the 6 channel inputs but I read here that that was a bad idea. I am curious how you make out with that.

BTW, don't you mean 1 male and 2 females? The male would plug into the receiver and the 2 players would plug into the females.

Thanks again for all the info piturra. I thought about using Y adaptors so I could connect two devices to the 6 channel inputs but I read here that that was a bad idea. I am curious how you make out with that.

As long as only one device is ON and the other OFF, ... then that Analog OUTput takes precedence w/no interference.

Anyway, I'll let you know how it goes after I installed the RCA Y Adapter cables.

BTW, don't you mean 1 male and 2 females? The male would plug into the receiver and the 2 players would plug into the females.

Since I already have 6 RCA Audio 12' cables installed (AV Rec left side of HDTV || BD-UP5000 / HD-A35 right side of HDTV), ... I plan on using the RCA Y Adapter Cable @ the HD DVD / Blu-ray players end of the 12' RCA cables, ... hence 1 Female / 2 Male (1 for BD-UP5000 / 1 of HD-A35).

Phil

Gotcha.

I am curious how it works out for you. I also thought that as long as only one device was on then the y adaptors would work fine. I remember reading here that that wasn't the case. Hopefully it works out for you.

Gotcha.

I am curious how it works out for you. I also thought that as long as only one device was on then the y adaptors would work fine. I remember reading here that that wasn't the case. Hopefully it works out for you.

I received the RCA Y Adapter Cables yesterday after work and installed them ...

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6638/rcayadapters640x371zq1.jpg

I had NO ISSUES** after I Re-REFERENCED Calibrated the Samsung BD-UP5000 & Toshiba HD-A35!!!

NOTES:
1) Adding the RCA Y Adapter lowers the sensitivity resistance by 4.5 dB, ... hence my new Samsung 5k - Yamaha RX-V1300 VOLUME KNOB REF CAL Value = -38.5 dB (was -42.5 dB w/o RCA Y Adapter).

2) Since I used the Yamaha RX-V1300 SPKR Level Controls to REF CAL the 5k, ... the Toshba HD-A35 REF Calibration (internal SPKR SPL Level controls) changed also.

The final HD-A35 SPKR Level values are:
Front Left = ......... 0 (was -7)
Center = .............. 0 (was -12)
Front Right = ........ 0 (was -7)
Left Side SUR = ..... -3 (was -5)
Right Side SUR = .... -3 (was -5 )
SUB = .................. 0 (no change)

3) Switching between each Analog OUTput devices just requires:
.... a) Turning-OFF one of the UNITS until you see the Stand-By Red Light, ... and then ...
.... b) Turning-ON the other UNIT.

4) **Initially I messed-up :confused: the wiring on the HD-A35 SURR R&L / Center | Sub, ... which is not hard to do since the RCA Y Adapter cables are ALL the Same Color, ... but, ...

... with a help from a friend ...
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2157/r2d2125x199jr8.jpg

... I finally got it right!!! ;)

==================
Movies Sampled after installation & REF Calibration:

Samsung BD-UP5000
1) Blu-ray: Digital Video Essentials Basic - TrueHD
2) Blu-ray: Legend of Zorro - TrueHD
3) HD DVD: I Am Legend - TrueHD
4) Blu-ray: I, Robot - DTS-HD Master Audio / DTS 5.1 Core
.... a) Ended up watching the movie! :rolleyes:

Toshiba HD-A35
1) Evening - TrueHD
2) P.S. I Love You - TrueHD (my wife wanted to watch the parts she missed)
3) Serenity - DD+
4) Batman Begins - TrueHD
5) Chicago & Earth, Wind & Fire Live @ the Greek Theater - DD+ (during breakfast this morning!)

All sounded Glorious!!! :D

Phil

So once you recalibrated with the y adaptors it sounded identical to without the y adaptors?

So once you recalibrated with the y adaptors it sounded identical to without the y adaptors?

Yep! Just had to turn-up the volume a bit!

Phil

Yep! Just had to turn-up the volume a bit!

Phil

Thanks for posting about this. I may try it but I still want to upgrade my receiver for many different reasons.

I like the fact that I can adjust the speaker levels for the 6 channel but having to change them back to use the digital inputs is extremely annoying. I don't know why the RX-V1 doesn't store seperate levels for different inputs but it doesn't.

I also think the RX-V1 is a bit bright with certain material. I think a modern receiver with Audussey could help with that.

In the mean time I can make do. Once I got the 6 channel calibrated the Dave Matthews BR sounds awesome in True HD. I need to watch a few action movies to see how they sound.