Anyone know about when the mini's get a hardware refresh? Is it September?

Just wondering if I should hold off my purchase until the next refresh.

I hope they update it. I'm considering replacing an iMac G5 with a Mini, but I've been holding off for a refresh. Last rumor update I can recall seeing was quite a while ago (March):

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/03/21/eating_our_words_apples_mac_mini_to_rock_on.html

Anyone know about when the mini's get a hardware refresh?

No one knows. No one on any discussion forum has ever known. Best not to ask.

Just wondering if I should hold off my purchase until the next refresh

This, however, is a very good question to ask and we might be able to help you. Why do you want to buy a mini? What do you want to do with it? What other Macs do you have? What do you want to connect it to? What do you want to watch?

Do you have a budget?

I'm a fairly recent Windows to Mac converter and this is still something that gets me about Mac people, why are they so hung up on HW refreshes? I'm especially curious now because of a recent G4 acquisition, I'm really impressed with the performance of it considering how old it is.

If the mini was refreshed tomorrow, what could they really do drastically improve it? GMA3100 graphics? Faster CPU? More memory? None of that is really worth waiting for. The mini is very capable of running Leopard right now and you can easily upgrade the ram if you're not happy with the stock 1GB.

If the mini was refreshed tomorrow, what could they really do drastically improve it? GMA3100 graphics? Faster CPU? More memory? None of that is really worth waiting for.

Exactly right. But in the unlikely event we got a mini with the G45 chipset, then we have the potential for 1080p playback without a 2.8GHz or better processor. Even then we would have to wait for Snow Leopard and Quicktime X to use it -- unless the libavc guys did an open source pass at it. Accelerated playback with a cool low clock processor would probably make the thermal stuff work out. I'm still sold on the mini form factor!

I'm a fairly recent Windows to Mac converter and this is still something that gets me about Mac people, why are they so hung up on HW refreshes? I'm especially curious now because of a recent G4 acquisition, I'm really impressed with the performance of it considering how old it is.

If the mini was refreshed tomorrow, what could they really do drastically improve it? GMA3100 graphics? Faster CPU? More memory? None of that is really worth waiting for. The mini is very capable of running Leopard right now and you can easily upgrade the ram if you're not happy with the stock 1GB.

Yes, since there is no option to upgrade the graphics card ourselves, we are dependent on Apple doing this for us. We have the same chipset that Apple was shipping 2? (or more) years ago. We can upgrade the proc ourselves, just not the graphics.

What the Windows folks have (other than an OS that turns my hair gray), is the option to upgrade whatever HW pieces they want.

Your G4 is the exception (as are all PowerMacs).. they are really the only machines that Apple sells where you can do an upgrade of anything more than the RAM and HD (and in some, the proc for those of us with a little daring)

Yep, that pretty much sums it up for me as well. I am just hoping to get 1080p out of the next hardware refresh for the same price. Because apple seems to always keep the price constant and change the hardware every 2 years or so.
I am more of a system builder myself, but I like the idea of a mac for an htpc, but I rather wait for a new version knowing that the current mini's have been out for 2 years or so. I am scouring ebay for a used one, but otherwise I'll just wait for a hw refresh.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up for me as well. I am just hoping to get 1080p out of the next hardware refresh for the same price. Because apple seems to always keep the price constant and change the hardware every 2 years or so.
I am more of a system builder myself, but I like the idea of a mac for an htpc, but I rather wait for a new version knowing that the current mini's have been out for 2 years or so. I am scouring ebay for a used one, but otherwise I'll just wait for a hw refresh.
I would be shocked if there isn't a Mini refresh by mid January 2009, probably a lot sooner. But I think that MacBook refreshes are a sure thing (and soon) and there have also been rumors of dropping prices -- so you may be able to pick up a new MacBook for under a grand and run it with lid closed, and that for sure is more powerful than a Mini.

The one doubt I have about MacBooks -- fan noise. My 1st gen Intel 1.66Ghz Mini is quieter than my wife's CD 2.0GHz MacBook.

Of course these are both two and a half year old machines and fan noise may be very different on the newest models.

If the mini was refreshed tomorrow, what could they really do drastically improve it? GMA3100 graphics? Faster CPU? More memory? None of that is really worth waiting for. The mini is very capable of running Leopard right now and you can easily upgrade the ram if you're not happy with the stock 1GB.

There's plenty that Apple could do, hardware wise, to update the mini.

1. GMA3100, faster CPU, more RAM are all part of a good starting point for a mini refresh. The GPU and CPU are not upgradeable, so getting an upgrade will make it last longer. As for the stock 1GB, it's true that you can swap the RAM out yourself, but with the mini, it's not quite that easy.

2. 802.11n is a biggie for me. I don't want to have to buy a USB 11n adapter, nor do I want to do some sort of ethernet bridge to get 11n. I know I can pop open the case and put in a MacPro 11n card and add an antenna, but geez, it's 2008 and they're still selling minis with 11g.

3. A larger hard drive would be nice. This is really the same thing as the RAM in that it's replaceable, but it's nice to have something with better parts right out of the box. Especially since RAM and HDDs are cheap these days.

4. Perhaps a better optical drive would be in order. I do admit, I'm not sure what SuperDrive they're using, so the current one might be sufficient. NOTE - I'm not asking for BluRay ... yet.

5. I know this probably won't happen, but how about an HDMI port? I know that I can get a DVI/HDMI adapter, but I'd still have to bring audio separately. If they added an HDMI port, then all I'd need is one cable to my flat screen. This is mainly an HTMac type request.

ft

The one doubt I have about MacBooks -- fan noise. My 1st gen Intel 1.66Ghz Mini is quieter than my wife's CD 2.0GHz MacBook.

Are you stressing both equally? Both with stock drives or upgraded? And from typical viewing/listening distance about 8' away, can you hear either fan? When I had a closed lid 1.83 CD Macbook in the HT, I actually ramped the fan speeds up on purpose, and still never heard them. One note just for reference: I never used its built-in optical drive.

and there have also been rumors of dropping prices -- so you may be able to pick up a new MacBook for under a grand and run it with lid closed, and that for sure is more powerful than a Mini.

Good advice--the 2.0 C2D 'Santa Rosa' Macbook (w/ the GMA X3100, faster FSB, n wireless, and full 4GB RAM support) has already been available as a refurb for $849, that's what I traded up to for the HT weeks ago...compared to the very stale $799 mini, it wasn't even close.

is the Santa Rosa 45nm ?

There's plenty that Apple could do, hardware wise, to update the mini.

1. GMA3100, faster CPU, more RAM are all part of a good starting point for a mini refresh. The GPU and CPU are not upgradeable, so getting an upgrade will make it last longer. As for the stock 1GB, it's true that you can swap the RAM out yourself, but with the mini, it's not quite that easy.

2. 802.11n is a biggie for me. I don't want to have to buy a USB 11n adapter, nor do I want to do some sort of ethernet bridge to get 11n. I know I can pop open the case and put in a MacPro 11n card and add an antenna, but geez, it's 2008 and they're still selling minis with 11g.
ft

The CPU is upgradeable. I've traded mine up twice (from 1.5 Solo, to 2.0 C2D).. its a bit scary the 1st time you dig in there, but I've now swapped out CPU, RAM, and HD.

And yes, 802.11n would be nice (I think you can hack that yourself as well, but not as sure)

Are you stressing both equally? Both with stock drives or upgraded? And from typical viewing/listening distance about 8' away, can you hear either fan? When I had a closed lid 1.83 CD Macbook in the HT, I actually ramped the fan speeds up on purpose, and still never heard them. One note just for reference: I never used its built-in optical drive.

Good advice--the 2.0 C2D 'Santa Rosa' Macbook (w/ the GMA X3100, faster FSB, n wireless, and full 4GB RAM support) has already been available as a refurb for $849, that's what I traded up to for the HT weeks ago...compared to the very stale $799 mini, it wasn't even close.

A little off topic, for which I apologize, but I'm curious as to your take on using a MacBook compared to a mini. What are the trade-offs/drawbacks, if any? Ports, expandability, upgradability, vid processing, anything? I realize a mini is essentially a headless laptop, but I'm still curious.

is the Santa Rosa 45nm ?

No, the 'Penryn' Macbook has the 45 nm chip--these are the current Feb. 2008 models; the one I picked up was an Oct. 2007 model, which were 65 nm.

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3246

I'm curious as to your take on using a MacBook compared to a mini. What are the trade-offs/drawbacks, if any? Ports, expandability, upgradability, vid processing, anything?

We've discussed this in many threads over the years, around here I'm a big "Macbook instead of mini" proponent because the Macbook is frequently updated, whereas the mini remains forlorn for long stretches. At the moment:

1) better specs, which I already listed, the GMA X3100, faster FSB, n wireless, and full 4GB RAM support--none of which the best mini has;
2) better resale value--used Macbook prices remain quite high;
3) it's MUCH easier to swap RAM and hard drives in a Macbook;
4) a Macbook is just as quiet, if not more quiet, than a mini--it has a very small footprint, especially if you put it in a vertical stand, and what's nice about the MB, as opposed to the MBP, is that you can orient it with all ports facing the rear and the optical drive slot facing forward;
5) Apple officially supports closed lid mode and it's a myth that a closed lid Macbook runs too hot. A Macbook runs hot, period, whether the lid is closed or open, with virtually no difference in temperature.

Everything else is essentially a push--same lack of expansion, single firewire bus, DVI/VGA, gigabit, etc. Since there's nothing a mini does better than a Macbook, and the mini is usually a generation or two behind the MB, it really comes down to price, and how you value the difference in price. There's a refurb 1.83 C2D mini that shows up very rarely for $479-499, that's the only mini I'd buy because it's a decent value for that money...if you're looking at spending $600-$700 on one of the current stale minis, I'd say spend a little more to get a Macbook or join the club that's been waiting for a mini refresh since last August...

And yes, 802.11n would be nice (I think you can hack that yourself as well, but not as sure)

yeah, folks have successfully put the Mac Pro wireless n card in the mini...

Are you stressing both equally? Both with stock drives or upgraded? And from typical viewing/listening distance about 8' away, can you hear either fan? When I had a closed lid 1.83 CD Macbook in the HT, I actually ramped the fan speeds up on purpose, and still never heard them.
Yes the comparison is EyeTV vs. EyeTV, everything stock on both. Obviously my test is completely unscientific -- MacBook in my lap, Mini farther away. I wouldn't be surprised if the if the processor speed makes a difference though -- quite possibly the 2GHz generates more heat than either the 1.83 or 1.66 - considering that all three CPUs were from a similar vintage.

We've discussed this in many threads over the years, around here I'm a big "Macbook instead of mini" proponent because the Macbook is frequently updated, whereas the mini remains forlorn for long stretches. At the moment:

1) better specs, which I already listed, the GMA X3100, faster FSB, n wireless, and full 4GB RAM support--none of which the best mini has;
2) better resale value--used Macbook prices remain quite high;
3) it's MUCH easier to swap RAM and hard drives in a Macbook;
4) a Macbook is just as quiet, if not more quiet, than a mini--it has a very small footprint, especially if you put it in a vertical stand, and what's nice about the MB, as opposed to the MBP, is that you can orient it with all ports facing the rear and the optical drive slot facing forward;
5) Apple officially supports closed lid mode and it's a myth that a closed lid Macbook runs too hot. A Macbook runs hot, period, whether the lid is closed or open, with virtually no difference in temperature.

Everything else is essentially a push--same lack of expansion, single firewire bus, DVI/VGA, gigabit, etc. Since there's nothing a mini does better than a Macbook, and the mini is usually a generation or two behind the MB, it really comes down to price, and how you value the difference in price. There's a refurb 1.83 C2D mini that shows up very rarely for $479-499, that's the only mini I'd buy because it's a decent value for that money...if you're looking at spending $600-$700 on one of the current stale minis, I'd say spend a little more to get a Macbook or join the club that's been waiting for a mini refresh since last August...

I'll note that you can upgrade the processor in the mini, and cannot in the MacBook (that I'm aware of), and may even be able to update the wireless (for the adventuresome). If you're willing to hack things up a little, you can even re-build the mini to use an eSATA 3.5" hard drive (as the page you linked earlier points out), which you almost definitely cannot with a MacBook.

Beyond all those, however, you make some very good points. I'll keep an eye out for those refurb specials you mentioned. Along with eBay for an upgradable Mini. ;)

...then we have the potential for 1080p playback without a 2.8GHz or better processor.

I am just hoping to get 1080p out of the next hardware refresh for the same price.

You guys know it's possible to get perfectly smooth 1080p playback on Intel Minis that are available today, right? Because Plex (aka OSXMBC) on my old 1.66 Intel Mini eats up ANYTHING I throw at it...including 1080p files that used to grind to a stop in VLC on the same machine.

I think the MacMini will be replaced with a new Mac that combines the Mini and the AppleTV, as well as a little bit of gaming capabilities.

http://macs.about.com/b/2008/07/26/new-apple-product-buzz.htm

I thought plex coudlnt do 1080p from what I was reading in Elan's blog... Hmms... ????

I'd love a refresh that can handle Blu-ray... including the drive.

I thought plex coudlnt do 1080p from what I was reading in Elan's blog... Hmms... ????

I suppose it's possible I'm experiencing a miracle - that description would certainly fit since I'm still blown away by the vast difference in Plex and VLC's playback abilities with 1080p material.

It's a free program and easy to install - other folks should pull out their wish-listed 1080p material and give it a run through Plex.

I suppose it's possible I'm experiencing a miracle - that description would certainly fit since I'm still blown away by the vast difference in Plex and VLC's playback abilities with 1080p material.

It's a free program and easy to install - other folks should pull out their wish-listed 1080p material and give it a run through Plex.

With a 60 second sample of Over the Hedge, which is full 1080p (1920x1080), I still get 400 frames dropped with Plex v0.50b10 . Widescreen "1080p" at 1920x800 will probably look better. Your visual perception may see perfection while others will not. Better to report the numbers.

Your visual perception may see perfection while others will not.

This is absolutely valid. The bottom line for me is 1080p files that fell apart in VLC play flawlessly in Plex...but, as you point out, that's only to my eyes. It's certainly possible I'm dropping frames in Plex and not seeing it.

I have been waiting and waiting for a Mini update. I have a Ministack V2 & Ministack V3 HD for 1.75TB of external space and have been porting over my DVD collection. I have almost pulled the trigger on a refurb Mini a few times, but couldn't do it. I have an original Macbook Pro 2.0 w/ 2 gig ram and a 7200 HD. Can I run my Macbook Pro with the lid closed and use that as my HTPC? If so, I may just get a top of the line imac ( I am a gamer) and use my Macbook Pro as my HTPC. I would still use the Macbook pro as my portable too. So can I run my Macbook Pro with the lid closed as my HTPC?

So can I run my Macbook Pro with the lid closed as my HTPC?

Yes. I use an original MacBook 2.0 Core Duo as an HTPC with the lid closed. It works fine. The remote will wake it from sleep and start Front Row, etc. It works just as well as a mini. The Pro would be even better I assume...

If you believe what you read online it appears like the end of Sept is the next mac hw refresh no idea if it includes the mini...

If you believe what you read online it appears like the end of Sept is the next mac hw refresh no idea if it includes the mini...

I predict....

that the next Mini refresh will come long after this thread withers and dies, and yet another thread springs anew :) (and maybe even another) :)

let's face it.. Apple simply hates on the Mini (much to my chagrin). They've had more than ample opportunity to make it shine if they wanted to. :(

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/desktop-studio-hybrid?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

Seriously.. I've never seen a better candidate for the OSX86 project...

HDMI + DVI
802.11n

and the base model starts $100 cheaper than the Mini (with 2x the HD space and a optical drive that will burn DVDs)

Blu-Ray drive is an optional upgrade.

I can't tell for sure, but with both a DVI and HDMI port.. I wonder if it can run dual-monitor.

Knock knock.. Apple.. hello.. anyone home??? Minor neglect is turning to insult...

Any idea when the linux guys will be stable as plex? Then something like your dell can become a viable option.

Gentlemen,

This is a Mac forum -- not a "what can I get instead of a Mac" forum. Please keep your posts on-topic (that is, about Macs and Mac OS).

sorry zim2dive, but a direct comparison using the configuration wiki on both the Apple and Dell sites shows an almost directly comparable Dell would cost $997 vs. $847 for the Mini with the same 2.0 GH chip, 160G drive, and 1G RAM. you forgot the extra costs of Vista Ultimate (to match Leopard), the Adobe software (to match iLife), a modem and wifi, and of course the essential additional security software.

and that's before we get a better next gen Mini very soon.

Quick question, could be the wrong place, but worth a shot: Is it possible to add a blue-ray drive to a mini as an external firewire device, in an enclosure? Yes, it messes up the pretty lines, unless you can hide it, but I was just wondering if it would work.

sorry zim2dive, but a direct comparison using the configuration wiki on both the Apple and Dell sites shows an almost directly comparable Dell would cost $997 vs. $847 for the Mini with the same 2.0 GH chip, 160G drive, and 1G RAM. you forgot the extra costs of Vista Ultimate (to match Leopard), the Adobe software (to match iLife), a modem and wifi, and of course the essential additional security software.

and that's before we get a better next gen Mini very soon.

I don't disagree, although I'll note that the Dell has 802.11n wireless, gigabit ethernet, and a better video card. And software costs are something of a red herring, since there are often ways to avoid those costs, whether through open-source/freeware alternatives, software you already own, or less moral options which nonetheless get the job done.

I still prefer the mac for all the other benefits it brings. And a hardware refresh, which has got to come eventually, will only make things better.

I don't disagree, although I'll note that the Dell has 802.11n wireless, gigabit ethernet, and a better video card. And software costs are something of a red herring, since there are often ways to avoid those costs, whether through open-source/freeware alternatives, software you already own, or less moral options which nonetheless get the job done.
The Mini does have gigabit ethernet, point taken on the N wireless, though certainly if/when they refresh the Mini, Apple will win the comparison walking away.
I have little sympathy for discounting the cost of software -- "I could pirate Windows" is not a good argument, nor are the open source alternatives which require a great deal of time and effort vs. pressing the Menu key on your Apple Remote to launch Front Row...

although I'll note that the Dell has 802.11n wireless

as an $70 upgrade option only, bluetooth might be optional as well. At least the current mini has g wireless built-in, and you could always put the $45 Mac Pro "n" card in a mini...

here we have only a passing glance at a Mini-like machine with compelling Mini-like features, but offered from a 1st-tier Apple competitor

thank you for this glance. DVI and HDMI opens a few doors, and I think it's gonna be worth keeping an eye on this Dell...

Please keep your posts on-topic

Agreed, there's a whole Linux forum and it was decided a long time ago that mention of hacking PCs and OSX86 has no place here. That said, I'd hope what would always be considered "on-topic" is discussion of Apple strategies and influence, how Apple products are priced and updated, and how competitive they are in the marketplace.

Of course, there's a limit how far we can go with these comparisons, since Apple sells an end-user experience (OS and software uniquely tied to hardware) and the Dell-like assemblers adding this and that do not. And while every Mac with OS X can also run Windows but no PC can legitimately run OS X, I'm glad you mentioned this product zim2dive--I always thought the power supply of my Cube had appeal and this design reminds me of it. It's intriguing and I like the fact that the stand adapts for vertical or horizontal placement. Wonder how loud it is...

But, in a way, this actually makes me appreciate the mini more, Apple got small form factor right and got it right a long time ago. It took Dell 3.5 years to come up with a design that's still twice the physical size of a mini, which, lest we forget, was released way back in January 2005.

Blu-Ray drive is an optional upgrade

I just read the site quickly, but is this upgrade available and shipping right now?

802.11n...and the base model starts $100 cheaper than the Mini

true, though it should be made clear that "the base model" doesn't have wireless or even a C2D chip. I quickly perused some gadget/geek sites and they were sent upgraded models to review, with a C2D and a few other upgrades, quickly pushing the price up over $850...

Knock knock.. Apple.. hello.. anyone home??? Minor neglect is turning to insult...

I'm not so sure about this zim...the mini has always been neglected, at any given time it's 1-1.5 years behind the Macbooks, which themselves are differentiated behind the iMacs and MBPs...and after a few years Dell finally releases something that's "mini-like," i.e. a small, compromised, headless laptop, if you will, and it seems very nice for August 2008...but you'd expect anything released a year later to be, well, a year further along spec-wise than the mini circa August 2007...no?

If Apple doesn't kill the mini entirely, or merge it with the aTV, and instead keeps to its typical "update the mini to use up old parts only after we've moved every other model significantly forward," shortly we'll see minis with all the leftover Macbook/MBP stuff: so that means Santa Rosa from 2007 and/or Penryn, 2.0 or better C2D, 4GB RAM capable, the GMA X3100, 800 MHz FSB and built-in wireless n--probably at $100 less than current mac mini price points--which means we'll likely get more for less than those Dells once you add up all the surcharges. That's hardly insulting...in fact, a whole lot of people would be thrilled by Apple releasing minis merely with these 1.5 year old specs. Far from being embarrassed by this Dell model or its price points, a new base model Mini with a 2.0 C2D/800 MHz/4 GB RAM capable/GMA X3100/n for $499, just might be the best selling mini yet. Then imagine sales if Apple figured out a way to implement the HD movie option from iTS on it...

Blu-ray drive option versus Apple stubbornly retaining the combo drive? OK, that sucks, but as long as Apple continues the charade of keeping the mini crippled, positioning the mini mainly to upsell other favored Mac models: I'll happily buy the less expensive mini or the Macbook with a combo drive--to save money--because Apple puts craptastic Matshita superdrives in those models, which I'd rather not pay a dime extra for. My value system says use excellent, inexpensive, reliable, fast and flashable 5.25" optical drives in a desktop or via firewire instead.

Where does that leave us--with the Dell having HDMI and a Blu-ray option down the road...and the lack of meaningful Blu-ray is still true of all Macs. We're also left with speculative Apple tidbits: eliminating the mini entirely, the mini morphing into something else, the as yet not defined product(s) that will have lower margins or those "new products that contain technologies that our competition will not be able to match."

Before that Dell model gains much traction we just might have some very interesting Mac home theater developments undercutting it...

The Mini does have gigabit ethernet, point taken on the N wireless, though certainly if/when they refresh the Mini, Apple will win the comparison walking away.
I have little sympathy for discounting the cost of software -- "I could pirate Windows" is not a good argument, nor are the open source alternatives which require a great deal of time and effort vs. pressing the Menu key on your Apple Remote to launch Front Row...

I'm not promoting piracy as an "acceptable" option, just recognizing that it is out there. Discounting open source and free software, however, does a disservice to your argument. There is a strong argument to be made that many of the genuinely free options are quite good (picassa, for instance... it's not as good as iPhoto, IMO, but it does have some things going for it, and it's genuinely free, unlike iPhoto, which is only free with a new Mac... you have to pay for full version upgrades). On our Macs, we need to download and add on VLC and other FREE software to gain the ability to playback codecs that aren't bundled with the system's software... just like on the PC. So having to install some free software to round out the package is not entirely a fair argument. And as for pirating the OS... you want to charge extra for Windows, when it's included in the bundle? Just like OSX is included in the Mini's bundle (and every other Mac). Again, on both platforms, you pay extra for "full version" upgrades to the OS.

Recall, mind you, that I'm very much pro-Mac, and hope to use a Mini, or perhaps a refurb MacBook, as an HTPC (currently I'm pretty pleased with my ATV). I just don't think arguments against the use of free software, and insisting on adding money to the PC side to get them to "match" the Mac side, entirely hold water. The Mac has enough going for it that obvious strawman arguments like that just end up hurting the Mac argument, instead of helping.

I got the official wrist-slap as not all appreciate peeking over the fence to see what the competitive marketplace offers, so forgive me for not replying more in depth.

as for Alfiejr, please read more carefully, my post I said the BASE model.. which for Apple is $599, Dell is $499 and much better equipped (HD+optical+GPU_mouse/kbd).. I was incorrect that 80211n was on the base model, so call it $569 for the Dell base.

I don't get in to the SW cost debate as either machine will come with its respective OS as part of the price and we aren't talking about switching OS's, just what exists in the same class of machine. Unless I'm wrong, one could install HTPC sw on either model as shipped for no additional cost... I use VLC on the Mac and would use it on any other machine. Ditto for iTunes. Both are free.

I think if this was a machine Apple released folks would be oohing and aahing and calling it a nice step forward (esp the BR support)... but the tendency is to want to think we always have the best.. I don't think that's the case, tho I wish it was.

And yes, I very much hope Apple will give us a nice refresh, but if I had a nickel for every time we've thought one was "just around the corner".... I'd rather poke my eye out than deal with Windows, but Apple is leaving us high and dry. Perhaps if I got very much more vocal about lack of Mini refresh, Apple would do it just to spite me :) I'd eat that crow with a smile on my face :)

End of my piece in this.. I'm not here to say Dell is great, just to inform about the comparative landscape, and to try to correct facts as best as I can in the debate.

well, i'm with you zim2. i agree comparing the Mini to the competition is very much on point for a thread discussing its future. it has to keep up with Dell and HP especially. and price is certainly an important part of that.

trying to make an "apples to apples" comparison is necessary tho, especially in case of Mac vs. Windows products. the "base" Mac product is always a much more capable piece of equipment/software than a "base" Windows product. i mean - Vista Home Basic vs. Leopard? come on. so you really need to configure both units to exactly what you would really want to buy, including all necessary software, whatever that is for you, and then see where the total prices come out. it'll be somewhat different for each of us.

the widely anticipated updated Mini (with or without a new name and form factor) really needs a price cut too, just like Apple did last year with the iMac. it's a great piece of equipment but Apple needs to get behind it and push, create some excitement by making it a great deal too. they raised its price too much last time, and then they gouge for extra RAM. that hurt.

so i am bravely predicting a revamped Mini by September with a 2.0 GH processor plus a better graphics chip and "n" wifi starting at $599 - equivalent to a $200+ price cut. i sure would not buy the 2007 model now.

so i am bravely predicting a revamped Mini by September with a 2.0 GH processor plus a better graphics chip and "n" wifi starting at $599 - equivalent to a $200+ price cut. i sure would not buy the 2007 model now.

I'll raise a glass to that.

It would definitely be preferable to be discussing the new thing we have, not the new thing we hope to get (there's just precious little new from Apple other than the iPhone).

i agree comparing the Mini to the competition is very much on point for a thread discussing its future.

Well, unfortunately, it is not the users here who decide what is on-topic or not.

trying to make an "apples to apples" comparison is necessary tho, especially in case of Mac vs. Windows products.

Since we are Mac users (look at the subject of this forum), why would we care what Windows products are available?

There are currently three (!) threads here all dedicated to the same question: What should/will Apple do next? They are: this thread, the Blu-Ray support thread and the Apple quarterly report conjecture thread.

Secondly, announcing that there is better (non-Mac) hardware for htpc is sort of on the same level of the earth-shattering news: the sun will rise tomorrow.

This is not a home-theater forum, this is a Mac htpc forum. We are not here to decide whether to buy Mac or Windows. We are well past that point.

And finally: we get quite a few people here who are still running Windows and would like to have an excuse to switch to Mac. (In fact, I suspect several of the people in this thread fit that description.) Having more Mac users benefits us because the more users there are, the more companies will make services or products for us. Therefore, suggesting that a Windows machine makes a better htpc than a Mac is unlikely to convince any of these people to switch.

I recently exchanged PMs with a regular user here about one of the other three threads and he said to me "it's fun." OK, I can see that. But this thread is certainly not fun nor is it staying on topic.

So, I'm closing it. If you'd like to speculate about future directions of Apple, please use the quarterly report conjecture thread.