The Halcro SSP-220 surround processor tonight at Esoteric Audio, Scottsdale got me thinking. Lets talk strictly DVD, Blu Ray/HD DVD, movies and tv shows,
and multi-channel DTS-MA/Dolby Tru HD/PCM 48 or 96/24 music. Forget two channel and redbook CD or vinyl - I don't know any current high resolution audio format will do that as well as a dedicated stereo premp or the Theta Six Shooter multi-channel analog preamp (in conjunction with being controlled by the CB3).

I know that Theta Digital custom designed digital filters so that allegedly their DACs are not just "off the shelf" and offer better performance than the Burr Brown DACs on which they are based. That and their analog output stages account for great sonics.

But I also know that a regular HD DVD or Blu Ray player analog out can sound appreciably better on high resolution tracks using analog out to my Theta Six Shooter multi-channel analog preamp, or using say an Integra DTC-9.8 preamp processor (in my case the latters multi-channel analog out goes into my Theta Six Shooter). So for Blu Ray movies those ultra expensive Theta Extreme DACs just ain't as important anymore. Though they continue to give me the best sonics possible on DirecTV stuff. And they are fantastic for redbook CD.

What about DACs in the latest surround processors? I know the Integra DTC-9.8 DACs are technically bested some by Denon's 7 grand MSRP surround processor? How do the DACs in the Halcro SSP-200/SSP-220 stack up on paper compared to Denon or Integra, or to upcoming surround processors from
Krell, Sim, Mark Levinson, etc.?

I assume the decoding or unpacking of the lossless formats is no different whether done in the player or the surround processor, right?

Aren't the high end companies limited these days to using available DACs, HDMI parts, etc., but they can still arguably improve sonics by their design and build of power supplies and analog outputs? And of course by using the best available DACs though they really can't revise those DACs? And perhaps in the quality of Audyssey EQ licensing and flexibility of bass and speaker crossovers?

Interested in your thoughts. Sanjay. Bulldogger. Others.

I know that Theta Digital custom designed digital filters so that allegedly their DACs are not just "off the shelf" and offer better performance than the Burr Brown DACs on which they are based. Steve, are you saying that Theta designed their own digital upsampling stage? Or are you actually referring to the analog reconstruction filtering that follows the DAC chip itself in the signal chain?

I know that Theta Digital custom designed digital filters so that allegedly their DACs are not just "off the shelf" and offer better performance than the Burr Brown DACs on which they are based. That and their analog output stages account for great sonics.

I think you assume too much.

Aren't the high end companies limited these days to using available DACs, HDMI parts, etc., but they can still arguably improve sonics by their design and build of power supplies and analog outputs? And of course by using the best available DACs though they really can't revise those DACs? And perhaps in the quality of Audyssey EQ licensing and flexibility of bass and speaker crossovers?

They always have been limited but people who spend big bucks once again assume that they are getting something better.

I think you assume too much.



They always have been limited but people who spend big bucks once again assume that they are getting something better.

Thank you for a most informative post based on your technical expertise!!@@:confused:

So are you saying for example that Theta Digital's Generation 8 DACs are simply standard, off the shelf DACs and the sonic nirvana some experience using them is all in their heads?

Thank you for a most informative post based on your technical expertise!!@@

You are the one making the statement so why don't you tell me.

So are you saying for example that Theta Digital's Generation 8 DACs are simply standard, off the shelf DACs and the sonic nirvana some experience using them is all in their heads?

Yes.

Steve, are you saying that Theta designed their own digital upsampling stage?

In the past, Theta has used DSPs to run their own custom oversampling filter for many of their 2-channel DACs.

--Andre

Ah, I see, thanks for the info. I wonder what sonic advantage they were hoping to gain with that approach---to be distinguished from strictly practical/architectural advantages like unifying the clocking between DSP and DAC.

Steve, I thought you had bluray1080p, I mean Doug Winsor, on your ignore list? what happened??

Steve, I thought you had bluray1080p, I mean Doug Winsor, on your ignore list? what happened??

Since he changed his name to "Duke of Winsor" I felt how could I excluse ROYALTY from making a royal fool of himself!!!@@@ Soon he will change his AVS moniker to "Blue Face" instead of blueray, etc.

I have been in this a while like most here but have found that generally speaking, the more you spend the better the performance. There are exceptions at cost... I am only speaking in general terms... Like I know my $30K Qualia is easily bested by the $50K HT 5000 and my 12K Halcro will beat out the average 7K Anthem $3K receiver..;)

Then again I have owned an assortment of processors and PJs of all prices over the last 20 years... So, just my experience.. But, first and foremost, you have to have your top acoustical order.

Ah, I see, thanks for the info. I wonder what sonic advantage they were hoping to gain with that approach---to be distinguished from strictly practical/architectural advantages like unifying the clocking between DSP and DAC.

I'm not sure. Way back when, there were some filters that weren't so well implemented in terms of standard filter specs: ripple, phase, behavior of the filter right above Nyquist, behavior in the presence of 0 dBFS, etc. Perhaps Theta thought they could do a better job? I know Krell implemented their own OS filter as well, but they seemed to be after a really higher OS ratio that off-the-shelf parts didn't offer. And Wadia had their crazy spline filters.

--Andre

Fair enough. I mean, the new high-end DAC chips these days have some incredibly precise filters, as I mentioned in the previous thread, but I'm not surprised that this represents an improvement over the past.

Since he changed his name to "Duke of Winsor" I felt how could I excluse ROYALTY from making a royal fool of himself!!!@@@ Soon he will change his AVS moniker to "Blue Face" instead of blueray, etc.

You are the one who assumes that theta is some how better based on name and price alone and I am the one asking for you to back up your statements, I do not look the "fool" in this thread.

Fair enough. I mean, the new high-end DAC chips these days have some incredibly precise filters, as I mentioned in the previous thread, but I'm not surprised that this represents an improvement over the past.

Supposedly Theta changed the way the calculate dither as well. Here's some of the info from a few yeas back that's currently on the Theta website, "One of the major reasons for the improvement in sounds is in the software. Theta has developed a completely new way of calculating the dither, which is a part of Theta’s digital signal processing “suite”.


Dither is used to refine the processing of digital signals by adding precision to the lowest-level signals.


Every digital system has a finite number of digits per sample with which to represent information. The last digit, or “least significant bit” is the point beyond which no further distinctions can be represented. There is a big difference, however, between a truncated digital signal and one using more elegant mathematical means of extending the system’s inherent performance to the utmost.


Precision-generated noise, by statistically boosting the energy at the noise floor, allows information below the theoretical digital noise floor to be accurately represented. It thus increases the dynamic range achievable from a given bit depth. Looked at another way, it provides an opportunity to mitigate a severe type of digital distortion called quantizing error, by decorrelating the digital noise (quantizing error) from the signal. Thus dither, along with noise-shaping, is a valuable and much used tool in all digital signal processing. Strange as it might seem, one of the important factors in this statistical process is the generation of noise that is as perfectly random as possible, for the best decorrelation." Not making an arguement one way or the other, but supposedly this is one of the reasons for improved sonices with the Theta's dac cards for the Casablanca III Xtreme and Superior II cards.