After calibrating my WD-65736 I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on calibrating the new Mitsubishi's. This way we could have a central place to share our ideas and settings. I initially used ColorHCFR to calibrate my TV but after experiencing freezing problems and inaccurate results I ended up using CalMAN to calibrate my TV.

Here is a little breakdown on what I used to calibrate my 736. First set the TV to Low color temp and then take a grayscale and primary and secondary colors reading and save it as your before settings. You can then refer back to this when you are finished to see how much your TV has improved after calibration.

To access the service menu, on the remote press Menu and then 2,4,5,7. This will bring up the service menu. The video button scrolls through each setting in the service menu. UP and Down changes each value, and pressing Enter (or OK) not sure what it is exactly on the remote since I do not have it in front of me, saves the changes.


Then I set my contrast and brightness in accordance with the "Calibration for Dummies Link" (see below). Next I calibrated my grayscale. G(RGB)L the first few settings, adjust the upper end of the grayscale, while BM(RGB) adjusts the low end. Once you get your grayscale correct, calibrate your primary colors, and then secondary colors.

Each color has the follwing in the service menu, with what I guess each could mean:

G(RGBCMY)L (Gain)
S(RGBCMY)L (Saturation)
H(RGBCMY)L (Hue)

Here is what you are going to try and calibrate each color to if you are using a high definition calibration disk:

Rec. 709 (High Definition)
--------------x-------y-------Y
Red----------0.640---0.330---0.2127
Green--------0.300---0.600---0.7151
Blue----------0.150---0.060---0.0722
Yellow--------0.419---0.505---0.9278
Cyan---------0.225---0.329---0.7873
Magenta------0.321---0.154---0.2849
White--------0.3127--0.329---1.0

Use these to dial in your colors. Once you have your colors correct, test your grayscale again and make adjustments if needed. Everything effects everything, if that makes any sense, so make sure you recheck your grayscale after making changes to your colors and vice-versa.

One more tip, make changes in the service menu and then exit out to take the readings. You will see why, the colors and brightness differ when you are in the service menu. Those of you with 835's might have an easier time than I did since you have perfect tint, which I don't, only perfect color. So I had to adjust the tint/hue, of each color in the service menu. I was able to get my primary and secondary colors except for Blue and Red close to perfect. Which after a many tries I believe is a limitation of this TV.

In case you don't already have it here are a couple of links, the first is the calibration for dummies guide, and the second is the calibration disk I used, AVS HD 709. The third is for CalMAN, the calibration software I used.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

http://avshd709.com/

http://www.spectracal.com/

Here are my current settings. These might give you a good starting point, if not you can always reset your service menu back to defaults by pressing 0 while in the service menu, and selecting restore white balance, first option I think.

Perfect Color
41
35
33
43
37
24

Color 31
Tint 25
Contrast 11
Brightness 30
Color Temp Low
Video Noise off
Deep Field Imager Off
Sharpness 35

ggl 1020
grl 994
gbl 1045
grl 128
srl 128
hrl 25
ggl 128
sgl 117
hgl 31
gbl 128
sbl 128
hbl 0
gcl 106
scl 86
hcl 15
gml 128
sml 123
hml 99
gyl 128
syl 107
hyl 65
grwl 128
ggwl 110
gbwl 110
bmg 0
bmr 16
bmb 65528
ofg 2
ofr 65530
ofb 5
cmg 150
cmr 150
cmb 150
idl 36
dbk 1


Good luck and be patient. It is very tedious, make small changes and take readings. It is worth it though once you have it calibrated. Let me know if you have any questions or problems. I've attached a pdf of my calibration report.

I had to recreate this thread due to the data loss that happened on the forum. I think I have started the original post as it was the first time the thread was started. However if you notice any info that is missing please let me know.

Now that you have it setup are you happy with your colors? I think I will be paying someone to calibrate mine after I put some hours on the bulb. Cnet's review is worrying me since they are really bashing the color on the TV. Either way I'm sure it is better than what I have now for a TV.

Now that you have it setup are you happy with your colors? I think I will be paying someone to calibrate mine after I put some hours on the bulb. Cnet's review is worrying me since they are really bashing the color on the TV. Either way I'm sure it is better than what I have now for a TV.

Yes, I am extremely happy with the colors now. It helped shadow detail as well. Cnet's review was accurate about the colors being off. Mine were actually further off than their's was. A professional calibration will definetely make a big difference. Have you thought about calibrating it yourself? It will cost you less money and it really isn't too difficult. You will also have the hardware to calibrate again every few months as the bulb ages.

Ksbarnz,

Are you running any of your sources through a receiver? I (as well as others in the owners thread) am not able to save any of my picture settings on my 835 when the HDMI connection is going through my Denon receiver. I don't know what I'm doing wrong and when I called Mitsubishi, they couldn't get the tv to save the video setting either. I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

Ksbarnz,

Are you running any of your sources through a receiver? I (as well as others in the owners thread) am not able to save any of my picture settings on my 835 when the HDMI connection is going through my Denon receiver. I don't know what I'm doing wrong and when I called Mitsubishi, they couldn't get the tv to save the video setting either. I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

Yes, I'm running my sources through an Onkyo 604 and do not have a problem with the settings not saving. That is stange that it is happening. Is it only happening to those of you with Denon's or other receivers as well?

Seems like the others that have the problem also have Denons. I have a service call in and am having someone come out and look at it.

I have the 65736 set. I did basic calibration using AVS HD 709. I am happy the result so far. However, in certain movies - Heart Break Kid for example - I see Ben Stiller with purple lips in closeup shots. I am not sure whether he was wearing lipstick or not. I tried adjusting magenta in my perfect color settings - with no success. Any ideas?

Yes, I am extremely happy with the colors now. It helped shadow detail as well. Cnet's review was accurate about the colors being off. Mine were actually further off than their's was. A professional calibration will definetely make a big difference. Have you thought about calibrating it yourself? It will cost you less money and it really isn't too difficult. You will also have the hardware to calibrate again every few months as the bulb ages.

I might do it myself depending on much someone local might charge me to do it. What I'm really hoping it that it looks good to mean with just some minor adjusting because I'm not what you would call a videophile. Either way thanks for the thread I think it will be useful.

I have the 65736 set. I did basic calibration using AVS HD 709. I am happy the result so far. However, in certain movies - Heart Break Kid for example - I see Ben Stiller with purple lips in closeup shots. I am not sure whether he was wearing lipstick or not. I tried adjusting magenta in my perfect color settings - with no success. Any ideas?

My set had the exact same problem you are talking about when I calibrated with solely a calibration disk and color filters. No matter what I did I could not get it correct with Perfect Color. Are you calibrating with color filters as well or are you using a colorimeter and ColorHCFR? When I finally hooked up an i1 I found out how far Magenta was off and the only way I could correct it was with the service menu. You could try my service menu and perfect color settings for magenta. In the service menu Magenta has the following values to adjust:

GML
SML
HML

Write down your default settings so you can change them back if it does not work for you. Or, if you have an i1 you can post a calibration file and I'll check it out.

My set had the exact same problem you are talking about when I calibrated with solely a calibration disk and color filters. No matter what I did I could not get it correct with Perfect Color. Are you calibrating with color filters as well or are you using a colorimeter and ColorHCFR? When I finally hooked up an i1 I found out how far Magenta was off and the only way I could correct it was with the service menu. You could try my service menu and perfect color settings for magenta. In the service menu Magenta has the following values to adjust:

GML
SML
HML

Write down your default settings so you can change them back if it does not work for you. Or, if you have an i1 you can post a calibration file and I'll check it out.

Thanks Ksbarnz,

I am not using a colorimeter or a ColorHCFR, just the 709 disk and color filters. As I said before, I am happy with the result, but the purple lips bugs me. I will give your suggestion a try.

I might do it myself depending on much someone local might charge me to do it. What I'm really hoping it that it looks good to mean with just some minor adjusting because I'm not what you would call a videophile. Either way thanks for the thread I think it will be useful.

I'm not what you call a videophile either and just started getting into this stuff. I know BestBuy does calibrations now for $300. I just put a call in to a local person to see how much they charge as well just to see what a typical calibration costs. I don't think I can do this stuff myself and it seems just getting the tools to do it would cost a good bit.

I'm not what you call a videophile either and just started getting into this stuff. I know BestBuy does calibrations now for $300. I just put a call in to a local person to see how much they charge as well just to see what a typical calibration costs. I don't think I can do this stuff myself and it seems just getting the tools to do it would cost a good bit.

Seriously, it really is not that difficult at all to calibrate it yourself. Just follow my first post and look at the calibration for dummies link I have posted and you should be good to go. It just takes a little time. It will cost you $140 for the i1 LT, and the software program and calibration disk are both free (see my first post for links). The thing with bulb based dlp is that the picture changes over time as the bulb ages so if you owned the calibration equipment you could calibrate it any time you wanted or needed to.

Either way you go, a professional calbration or calibrating it yourself, you should see a big change in picture quality once it is calibrated.

Thanks Ksbarnz,

I am not using a colorimeter or a ColorHCFR, just the 709 disk and color filters. As I said before, I am happy with the result, but the purple lips bugs me. I will give your suggestion a try.

No problem at all.

I'm having troubles with my greens--at least from broadcast sports. The green in the Green Bay Packers uniforms is more of a blue-green than should be (green shifts towards blue when dark), while many shots of grass appear lime-green (greens shift towards yellow when brighter). I can get it fairly close by pumping up green, but then other colors shift and suffer. As such, I might want to tweak my green settings in the service menu.

Before I start, I want to make sure I understand terminology.

Hue--that would be color itself and adjustment would shift green towards either blue or yellow depending.

Gain--that would be the brightness of the color and adjustment would shift bright to dark

Saturation--that would be the depth of the color and adjustment would shift from pale to deep.

Any help is appreciated.

(patgilm, I'm not sure if your problem is in your receiver or not, but, in general, to save settings, you must name the setting first)

I'm going to try reposting this here since this is probably more the place for it. Any help would be great.

I'm having a hard time with one of the calibration settings on my 65736, but I'm not sure which ones.

Certain light on characters looks almost like makeup applied to the actor. Case in point, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. When Harry and his friends are in the ministry and first confronted by Malfoy and the Death Eaters, the blue light that shines on them is very grainy at the edges and looks like blue makeup powder has been applied. Could someone let me know which setting, or combination of settings controls something like this?

The settings are almost stock and no service level changes have been made. All the colors are flatlined at the stock 31, I believe.

Thanks.

Glad to see this thread up and running again.

I wanted to post my first completed calibration file so I could get some constructive criticism.

for some reason after calibration the luminance for colors seems off.
the colors xy values seem right to my eye but some ,especially red and blue seem very strong at times. giving the picture a unnatural look.
I cant seem to figure out what is going on here. I am wondering if the inaccurate luminance and gamma may be leading to this or perhaps the blue xy values are causing this issue. I don't know and i am hoping someone with the know how can guide me in the right direction. I cant really do anything about gamma and i think maybe the auto iris may be causing the large inflection in the gamma curve.

I am going to try only adjusting the color in the CMS and not use any color or tint adjustment and see if that will help me get blue closer to reference.

if not for the luminance issues colors would look much better than before as the saturation and hue seem much better.

(patgilm, I'm not sure if your problem is in your receiver or not, but, in general, to save settings, you must name the setting first)


I'm not sure what the problem is but I figured out how to keep my settings. If I name the HDMI input 1 AVR the settings will not stay. If I name HDMI input 1, HDMI input 1, the settings stay. I've tried using AVR three times and the same result. Its annoying that I cannot even use the AVR designation and have to use a generic name to keep my video settings but at least I figured out how to save them. Does anyone have this same issue?

As far as the calibration, I read some of the link in the first post above and I think I got an aneurism. Seriously, it looks pretty difficult. However, I will probably give it a shot and order the calibration tools and do it myself.

Glad to see this thread up and running again.

I wanted to post my first completed calibration file so I could get some constructive criticism.

for some reason after calibration the luminance for colors seems off.
the colors xy values seem right to my eye but some ,especially red and blue seem very strong at times. giving the picture a unnatural look.
I cant seem to figure out what is going on here. I am wondering if the inaccurate luminance and gamma may be leading to this or perhaps the blue xy values are causing this issue. I don't know and i am hoping someone with the know how can guide me in the right direction. I cant really do anything about gamma and i think maybe the auto iris may be causing the large inflection in the gamma curve.

I am going to try only adjusting the color in the CMS and not use any color or tint adjustment and see if that will help me get blue closer to reference.

if not for the luminance issues colors would look much better than before as the saturation and hue seem much better.

Do you happen to have a before calibration file? This will make it easier to give some advice.

well, I did but i accidentally deleted it so I would have to reset the tv and re measure. I will do that later.

well, I did but i accidentally deleted it so I would have to reset the tv and re measure. I will do that later.

sounds good. I noticed that you have notes that you have your color set to 41. This might be giving you the unnatural look you are talking about. Have you tried settings color to it's default and then individually calibrate each color with perfect color and the service menu?

well, I did but i accidentally deleted it so I would have to reset the tv and re measure. I will do that later.

I also checked your luminance for your primary colors and they all seem to be a little high. Try taking each down a notch or two in perfect color. I also updated my original post with the target values for primary and secondary colors when you are calibrating. I'd be interested in seeing a before calibration file to see if your gamma was a little more in line, because you are right it does have a definite dip in it after the calibration.

Also on your grayscale blue seems low on most ire values. Try bumping it up a few notches on both the low and high end.

I'm going to try reposting this here since this is probably more the place for it. Any help would be great.

I'm having a hard time with one of the calibration settings on my 65736, but I'm not sure which ones.

Certain light on characters looks almost like makeup applied to the actor. Case in point, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. When Harry and his friends are in the ministry and first confronted by Malfoy and the Death Eaters, the blue light that shines on them is very grainy at the edges and looks like blue makeup powder has been applied. Could someone let me know which setting, or combination of settings controls something like this?

The settings are almost stock and no service level changes have been made. All the colors are flatlined at the stock 31, I believe.

Thanks.

Sorry, I have never seen the movie and do not have it to test it out. Do you see this on any other movie? What are you watching it on, blu-ray, hd-dvd, dvd?

I also checked your luminance for your primary colors and they all seem to be a little high. Try taking each down a notch or two in perfect color. I also updated my original post with the target values for primary and secondary colors when you are calibrating. I'd be interested in seeing a before calibration file to see if your gamma was a little more in line, because you are right it does have a definite dip in it after the calibration.

Also on your grayscale blue seems low on most ire values. Try bumping it up a few notches on both the low and high end.

after much tinkering I now have a much better understanding of gamma and luminance.

I had to take my tv down to about 21 ftl in order to level out the luminance curve. once there i got very good gamma, finally. you may say that this is below the recommended ftl but in a dark room it's just fine. infact it gives the picture a much more movie theater like brightness to it. I figureed since my set is 65 inches i could get away with a somewhat lower ftl.

my gamma is now about 2.19 flat. luma is correct and i still have about 1600 to 1 contrast ratio.

I cant get 10 ire greyscale flattened out. its about 13 delta e. I know my eye one is reading this low accurately because i can see the color shift in grey with my eyes at 10 ire. I can only hope this doesn't effect real world performance. I may actually sacrifice some accuracy in the mid greyscale for the sake of dialing in the low a little bit better as everything from 20 up in greyscale is at about 1.5 delta e. if I can get 10 ire below 10 delta e I will be happy. I have found that for the formula described in the calibration tutorial for color luminance to work you pretty much need a flat and accurate luminance for greyscale other wise it will throw color luminance off by about the amount that the greyscale luminance is off.

now that my luminance and gamma is right I have hi hopes that my color luminance will dial in correctly with the tutorials formula.

I am going to try color calibration using only the color management system this time around and see if I can get better results, especially in blue however It doesnt seem likely as the standard tint control shouldn't effect the xy coordinates for blue, or red or green for that matter.

I will do color tonight and post the results.

after much tinkering I now have a much better understanding of gamma and luminance.

I had to take my tv down to about 21 ftl in order to level out the luminance curve. once there i got very good gamma, finally. you may say that this is below the recommended ftl but in a dark room it's just fine. infact it gives the picture a much more movie theater like brightness to it. I figureed since my set is 65 inches i could get away with a somewhat lower ftl.

my gamma is now about 2.19 flat. luma is correct and i still have about 1600 to 1 contrast ratio.

I cant get 10 ire greyscale flattened out. its about 13 delta e. I know my eye one is reading this low accurately because i can see the color shift in grey with my eyes at 10 ire. I can only hope this doesn't effect real world performance. I may actually sacrifice some accuracy in the mid greyscale for the sake of dialing in the low a little bit better as everything from 20 up in greyscale is at about 1.5 delta e. if I can get 10 ire below 10 delta e I will be happy. I have found that for the formula described in the calibration tutorial for color luminance to work you pretty much need a flat and accurate luminance for greyscale other wise it will throw color luminance off by about the amount that the greyscale luminance is off.

now that my luminance and gamma is right I have hi hopes that my color luminance will dial in correctly with the tutorials formula.

I am going to try color calibration using only the color management system this time around and see if I can get better results, especially in blue however It doesnt seem likely as the standard tint control shouldn't effect the xy coordinates for blue, or red or green for that matter.

I will do color tonight and post the results.

Glad you got your gamma in line. Just a thought, have you tried lowering CM(RGB)? This might lower your luminance and also not sacrifice your ftl. You'd have to raise your contrast a few notches to compensate but it might bring your luminance curve in line. You might try lowering each 5-10 clicks to see what it does.

Also, I would worry too much about the 10 ire reading. As long as it looks good 30-100 you should be good to go.

actually, I'm very happy with my luminance curve. yes I have messed with those settings with no good result. any higher in contrast brings the gamma and in effect luminance out of whack no matter what. this set just wants to sit at about 21 to 25 ftl depending on how close the greyscale is in order to obtain flat gamma and luminance. I'm fine with that as its still plenty bright in a light controlled environment. I am going to use the high setting for daytime viewing and i can sacrifice some luminance/gamma accuracy there if needed.

how is cm(rgb) any different than a contrast control for each color with a larger range than the user menu contrast? do you know specifically what its for . I adjusted it quite abit to see what it does and it just looks like contrast.

I just completed calibrating all three rear HDMI inputs on my WD73835. Each input was calibrated with a different component (XA2 HD DVD, BDP-350 Blu-ray and a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR). All my color adjustments were done with “Perfect Color” and “Perfect Tint” in the user menu. This allowed me to independently tune each input.
The user menu color settings ended up very different for each component.
I’m a little disappointed that the settings in the service menu are global. Any settings you change in the service menu apply to all inputs. On my HLR6168 Samsung the settings can be changed independently for each input. The good news is, even though I can’t change the service menu items separately, the picture quality of the Mitsubishi is outstanding compared to the Samsung. I decided to go with the Blu-ray gray scale calibration for the service menu, since that is where I want the best picture quality.
I ended up raising the values for CM(RBG) and then lowering contrast in the user menu. This allowed me get the best gray scale results and the best picture. CM(RBG) seems to handle contrast differently than the user menu contrast.

I just completed calibrating all three rear HDMI inputs on my WD73835. Each input was calibrated with a different component (XA2 HD DVD, BDP-350 Blu-ray and a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR). All my color adjustments were done with “Perfect Color” and “Perfect Tint” in the user menu. This allowed me to independently tune each input.
The user menu color settings ended up very different for each component.
I’m a little disappointed that the settings in the service menu are global. Any settings you change in the service menu apply to all inputs. On my HLR6168 Samsung the settings can be changed independently for each input. The good news is, even though I can’t change the service menu items separately, the picture quality of the Mitsubishi is outstanding compared to the Samsung. I decided to go with the Blu-ray gray scale calibration for the service menu, since that is where I want the best picture quality.
I ended up raising the values for CM(RBG) and then lowering contrast in the user menu. This allowed me get the best gray scale results and the best picture. CM(RBG) seems to handle contrast differently than the user menu contrast.

I had to do the same thing with my set as well, raising CM(RGB) to calibrate the grayscale and bring my color values in line. I agree, it does seem to be a type of contrast but a different one than what you can adjust in the user menu. I glad to hear it all went good. It is a really great picture once it is fully calibrated. My wife still comments on how good it looks.

Glad you got your gamma in line. Just a thought, have you tried lowering CM(RGB)? This might lower your luminance and also not sacrifice your ftl. You'd have to raise your contrast a few notches to compensate but it might bring your luminance curve in line. You might try lowering each 5-10 clicks to see what it does.

Also, I would worry too much about the 10 ire reading. As long as it looks good 30-100 you should be good to go.
I tried sending you a PM regarding the correct way to set the Gamma in the 65835; Which of the settings in the SM, account for the gamma level. It was very clear cut in my Samsung, the service menu had a a gamma heading.

Thank You,
Mark

there is no specific gamma service menu adjustment. the best way to adjust gamma is with the contrast and brightness setting.

there is no specific gamma service menu adjustment. the best way to adjust gamma is with the contrast and brightness setting.
Thank you for the reply. I was hoping for something more direct in the SM. But this will have to do.

Mark

ksbarnz,

Question. My 65736 will be here in a week. Can I use your settings on my TV? I've heard each TV is different, but your setting have to be better than right out of the box, right?

If I go the route of buying one of those fancy cali tools, ARE YOU SURE its easy? I see you guys throwing around all these technical terms and it scares the crap out of me. I'm old school, where you had brightness, contrast, and color. ;-) , now there's all this other stuff! Oy!

Any help/recommendations are appreciated.

:confused:

ksbarnz,

Question. My 65736 will be here in a week. Can I use your settings on my TV? I've heard each TV is different, but your setting have to be better than right out of the box, right?

If I go the route of buying one of those fancy cali tools, ARE YOU SURE its easy? I see you guys throwing around all these technical terms and it scares the crap out of me. I'm old school, where you had brightness, contrast, and color. ;-) , now there's all this other stuff! Oy!

Any help/recommendations are appreciated.

:confused:

You could try my settings but chances are they might not work for you. You are correct, every tv is different.

Yes, it is really not too hard to calibrate it. Just read my first post and read the calibration for dummies link I have in the first post and you should be good to go. Once you get the calibration tools and give it a test run you'll see that it really isn't too difficult. Your basically just taking a constant reading with an i1 and changing settings on your TV and watching the values on your laptop to see if they fall in place. Everything you need to adjust is posted in my first post so it takes most of the guesswork out of what to do. Also, if you run into any problems during your calibration post back here and I'll be glad to help.

So if I am understanding correctly, each time an adjustment is made in the service menu for greyscale, it has to be accepted, then you must exit out of the service menu, return to your greyscale pattern to take readings, then re-enter the service menu to make any further adjustments?.
Also, I'm still a bit confused on all the different values that can be adjusted, and how each one relates to the "dummies" guide.
Thanks for your time!!!

So if I am understanding correctly, each time an adjustment is made in the service menu for greyscale, it has to be accepted, then you must exit out of the service menu, return to your greyscale pattern to take readings, then re-enter the service menu to make any further adjustments?.
Also, I'm still a bit confused on all the different values that can be adjusted, and how each one relates to the "dummies" guide.
Thanks for your time!!!

Yes you are correct, you have to make adjustments and push Enter (or OK) don't have the remote in front of me, and then exit out to take a reading. The values you are going to adjust for grayscale are:

if using low temp
G(RGB)L for the high end of the grayscale
BM(RGB) for the low end
OF(RGB) for the low/middle end (it might take a combination of both BM and OF to dial in your low/middle grayscale)

You will then use a combination of the service menu and regular user menu to dial in your primary and secondary colors. My first post should give you a good idea on what to adjust. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Ksbarsz,
Thanks for the clarification; no doubt I'll have more questions down the road. My 73835 is just a month old, so I wanted to put a few hours on the bulb before I do the calibration. I have yet to take the Bluray plunge since all the stand alone players still seem to be a bit problematic. As far as a standard def test disc, I imagine the Digital Video Essential would work just fine. Any real need for a 1080p test disc???

Donnyboy, The HD color space is slightly larger than the SD space. I just did a simple test with DVE on my 73835. I first set my Blu-ray player to 1080P and then to 480P, using the DVE color samples. The only color that measured differently was red. At 408P it looked more orange than at 1080P.
I purchased a Sony BDP-S350. It’s on the low end of Blu-ray players but picture wise it performs equal to my XA2 HD-DVD player. I’ve played a half dozen movies so far without any issues. I guarantee you that you will see a difference. Your TV has much more capability than you can see with any DVD player.

after alot of research I can now 100 percent say that the dark detailer really messes up the gamma. because the dark detailer automatically adjusts the light output in real time there is no way to get flat gamma unless you stop it from moving. unfortunately since there is no way to turn it off in the service menu so that it would stay off, the only thing that can be done is dial contrast down to very low levels. it stopped,moving at about 22 ftl. for me. I had to switch from normal to bright lamp mode just to get that.

basicly with my wd-65835 i get darker blacks than the wd-65735 but its at the expense of good gamma response.

if anyone knows a way to turn off the auto iris and keep it off I would be very interested in knowing.

Cid, I also had to reduce my ftL to about 20 (Natural mode) to get gamma in line. I’ve got a relatively dark viewing area so it isn’t a problem for me. I’ve turned the shutter off and didn’t see a visual response. I haven’t tried calibrating the gray scale with it off. When I turn it off it seems to stay off. Is the shutter what you are referring to? I assumed turning the shutter off turned Dark Detailer off (press F1 while in the service menu).

after alot of research I can now 100 percent say that the dark detailer really messes up the gamma. because the dark detailer automatically adjusts the light output in real time there is no way to get flat gamma unless you stop it from moving. unfortunately since there is no way to turn it off in the service menu so that it would stay off, the only thing that can be done is dial contrast down to very low levels. it stopped,moving at about 22 ftl. for me. I had to switch from normal to bright lamp mode just to get that.

basicly with my wd-65835 i get darker blacks than the wd-65735 but its at the expense of good gamma response.

if anyone knows a way to turn off the auto iris and keep it off I would be very interested in knowing.

Cid, I definitely think you are on to something. That would explain why I didn't have the gamma problem with my 736 since I do not have that feature. I guess one way to see if there was a way to turn it off would be to see if you have an extra setting in your service menu compared to mine. I'll update my original post shortly with every service menu option, I might have left out one or two.

sounds good. as far as the f1 command that vandu is referring to, yes f1 will turn the auto iris off in the service menu but once you leave the service menu it will turn back on. you can check this by looking at a dark seen in a movie while in the service menu. when you turn it off the black level will raise but once you leave the service menu the black level will drop to normal. once you go back into the service menu the shutter will say its off but once you turn it back on the black level will raise again like when you originally turned it off. this is because the description of the setting is staying once you exit the service menu but the shutter is not. I hope that makes sense.

I have decided to just make sure the 10 ire and 100 ire points are set correctly to the 2.2 gamma refferance ad from my research this is the best thing to do when dealing with an auto iris that cant be turned off.

I honestly dont think that the real world effect of this inaccurate gamma is going to be a real problem because its dynamic unlike if you had this gamma reading on a set without the auto iris.

Cid, I believe entering the service menu brightens the screen and exiting it darkens the screen. This happens even when you don’t press F1. I’m curious if this happens with the other models besides the 835s.

Cid, I believe entering the service menu brightens the screen and exiting it darkens the screen. This happens even when you don’t press F1. I’m curious if this happens with the other models besides the 835s.

yes, it happens with my 736 as well. Also on my 736 I do not have the auto-iris menu when pressing F1 so I'm assuming that has to be the setting for the dark detailer for you guys. That's strange that the settings doesn't stay when changing it in the service menu. Have you tried turning it off and then taking a grayscale reading to see if it effects gamma at all?

I measured the grayscale both with the shutter on and with it off. I didn’t see any difference in the readings. I wish I had. I would love to have a little more latitude in screen brightness for a well lit room.

My biggest concern at the moment is the color differences between components. The optimum color settings for Blu-ray look awful on my DVR. I plan to purchase an HDMI capable receiver in the near future. If it outputs through a single HDMI output the TV will have to be readjusted for color each time I switch components. My current work around is to tune “Natural” for Blu-ray and “Bright” for my DVR.

Cid, I believe entering the service menu brightens the screen and exiting it darkens the screen. This happens even when you don’t press F1. I’m curious if this happens with the other models besides the 835s.

yes I am aware of this and that isn't what i am referring to. in fact that's why you cant get accurate readings in the service menu.

I have also check for differences with the shutter on and off with my meter and it had no effect, further strengthening my argument that the shutter is only operative in the service menu. oh well I'll have to deal.

having the perfectint is worth the gamma error as i was able to dial my color very very close to perfect thanks to the added range in hue adjustment.

Hi-- I thought some of you might want to see the ISF calibration report.

Additional Calibration Notes

Perfect Color Tint
R 37 22
G 44 17
B 23 31
Y 34 31
C 38 40
M 40 18
Picture Mode Natural
Contrast 56
Brightness 17
Color 30
Tint 31
Sharpness 19
Color Temp Low
Video Noise Low
SharpEdge Off
DeepFieldImager Off

BTW-- Gray scale was adjusted in the service menu and the Bulb was set at the higher/brighter setting

I finally got around to purchasing an Eye-One to calibrate my 60735 and thought I'd post my results. Hopefully they can be of benefit to this group!

I am quite pleased with my results of calibration. I was able to fix almost all of the major color discrepancies as well as a relatively flat greyscale. I did run into a few weird things that I'll hopefully be able to fix, but for now I'm happy with the current settings.

There ended up being a strange spike in red percentage around 70 IRE that I wasn't able to level out. It's not too bad (a couple percent) but still a bit weird.
I also would like to smooth out the gamma a bit, but I'm not quite sure how to proceed there. I've attached my before/after for anyone interested in looking at it. Any suggestions or comments are welcome!

heres my finished color hcfr calibration data

Hi-- I thought some of you might want to see the ISF calibration report

thanks for the report. Its really good as it will tell us where we are compared to a isf calibrator.

I am sure many of the differences can be related to the fact that he was likely using a much more accurate meter. with me, just taking one measure to the next could cause a level of error that could mean the differance between a good 2 to 3 points in the delta e.

I will say that most of this information is useless from my standpoint without the service menu data to back it up.

I see contrast is set much higher shifting the gamma curve upward. I have set gamma here before but with the result being much to hi ftl. I wonder if this is truly the correct way to set the gamma to compensate for the auto iris. since contrast is so high and the lamp mode is on high ,I wonder what settings he used to bring the ftl. down.

I can say even if you get a little bit more accuracy in some areas I still feel the knowledge that i can calibrate any set i encounter from here on out is very much worth the 150 dollars and my time, not to mention the fact that it's its much cheaper.

What program do I use to open the .chc files?

It's a free program called ColorHCFR that you can download here. I forgot to mention earlier that all my user/service menu display settings are also included in the above report for anyone interested.

http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/HCFR_Setup_v2_0_1.exe

Thanks.

MadsenD - What is your sharpness setting, I don't see it in the comments?

everyone need to realize settings dont matter one bit. in fact I can have a correct set of settings for my set than change some things than go back to my original settings and they will be completely off, depending on what i change. a setting does not lock a specific measurement into that setting you can go back and forth on a single setting and have it change constantly. so get your settings for that perticalar moment from a calorimeter or don't bother. the only time another persons settings can be useful is if you are trying to figure out how some one accomplished a specific task or to figure out what a setting is for but that's it.

a corect sharpness setting is one where there is no ringing around lines. this really can only properly be observed with the correct pattern. you wont likely see it well with normal material besides some movies add ringing even though the set is not .

I think most of us understand what you are saying. That being said, there is no reason that the settings cant be used as a reference and/or for comparison. In my experience the settings on the same model are fairly similar, not exact, but closer than what you will get from the factory. Which is precisely why this forum exists, I believe.

well perhaps if its the exact same model. I know i tried ksbarnz calibrated settings on my set and it was off way more than my factory settings.

MadsenD - What is your sharpness setting, I don't see it in the comments?

Must have left that one out. I believe it's set to either 32 or 33. On my television moving beyond about 5 clicks from 31 in either direction really starts ringing or blurring.

well perhaps if its the exact same model. I know i tried ksbarnz calibrated settings on my set and it was off way more than my factory settings.

Agreed, that is why I didn't even try any of the settings until someone with a 735 showed up. By the way, I'm not sure MadsenD's settings are exact for my set, but they are marked improvement from the factory, even just looking with the naked-eye. Thanks.

For my TV the only way I could compensate for RED and Green being so far off was to adjust CM(RGB) to their max settings, 150 I think. This also makes your TV extremely bright, so I then dropped contrast to 13 to get 38 ftl of brightness. Next I calibrated my grayscale. .


Just a quick question, why did you FIRST adjust red/green and not do greyscale first (like in the idiots guide).

I was reading the guide (to decide if I could do this if I bought an eye one) and just curious. Thanks for the thread!

Just a quick question, why did you FIRST adjust red/green and not do greyscale first (like in the idiots guide).

I was reading the guide (to decide if I could do this if I bought an eye one) and just curious. Thanks for the thread!

You're correct, according to the guide you are supposed to calibrate grayscale first, but after I took my "before" grayscale and color readings I noticed how far red and green were off, (luminance was really low), and the only way I could figure out how to correct them was to raise CM(RGB) to their max settings which gave me a little more room to work with each color in Perfect Color. When I did this I noticed that it made the set much much brighter so I then dropped the contrast and then calibrated my grayscale. If I would have calibrate my grayscale and then raised CM(RGB) my grayscale would have been off. If you are not planning on using CM(RGB) in the service menu, then yes you could go directly into calibrating the grayscale. I then calibrated my primary and secondary colors.

I think it is definitely worth it to calibrate the set with an i1. It made a BIG difference for me and I couldn't be happier with how it looks now. I tried calibrating it with color filters but it never looked 100 percent good to me. I even took a calibration reading with what the color filters was saying was close to correct and it was way off. An i1 and ColorHCFR takes the guess work out of it. It isn't too hard to calibrate. It will just take some time and tinkering to figure out how each setting works in the service menu. Once you have that figured out it isn't too hard at all.

Thanks for the encouragement. I think it is a good investment since, once you know it, you can use it on any tv you buy or if you get a new bulb etc.

So in your opinion what is more striking:

Out of Box ->DVE HD color filter (which I did and think it looks alot better/fantastic)

DVE HD-> eye One??

I also wonder how to "calibrate" for the XBOX360. I have thought about this. Most studies use LCD monitors in the PC color scale etc that are probably overly bright, lack good black, and blow out white. The "GAME" mode built into the set acutally looked great out of the box (the ONLY one of the presets that looked good). For example, the shadow detail in Halo 3 was present with their wacky settings. GAME mode also restricts the Service menu - even the keystone correction!!!!

MadsenD,

How would I open the .chc file. i would like to see your settings. i have the same set as you. I am unable to open that file

MadsenD,

How would I open the .chc file. i would like to see your settings. i have the same set as you. I am unable to open that file

You need ColorHCFR installed in order to view it.

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/release/Setup_v2_0_1.exe

Thanks for the encouragement. I think it is a good investment since, once you know it, you can use it on any tv you buy or if you get a new bulb etc.

So in your opinion what is more striking:

Out of Box ->DVE HD color filter (which I did and think it looks alot better/fantastic)

DVE HD-> eye One??

I also wonder how to "calibrate" for the XBOX360. I have thought about this. Most studies use LCD monitors in the PC color scale etc that are probably overly bright, lack good black, and blow out white. The "GAME" mode built into the set acutally looked great out of the box (the ONLY one of the presets that looked good). For example, the shadow detail in Halo 3 was present with their wacky settings. GAME mode also restricts the Service menu - even the keystone correction!!!!

I think it looks much better now after the calibration with an i1. I could never get even close to where I could with an i1. So I guess maybe my OCD was satisified when I knew for sure they were close to correct.

As far as calibrating your 360, do you have the HD-DVD add on?

So in your opinion what is more striking:

Out of Box ->DVE HD color filter (which I did and think it looks alot better/fantastic)

DVE HD-> eye One??


I had calibrated things with just the PerfectColor, and user menu Tint and Color sliders with filters in DVE but I wasn't very happy with the result. Magenta seemed to be way out of whack (noticable on people's lips mostly) and greens and (to a lesser extent) yellows appeared to be too fluorescent.

After finishing calibration with the Eye-One all those problems are gone now, and the shadow detail is quite a bit better after getting the gamma curve adjusted better. It did take some time fiddling with the settings and dialing everything in, but was worth it in the end.

as far as calibrating the xbox 360 goes I believe games are using the rgb color space. I'm going to calibrate for rec 709 though as that's what the xbox is used with since it is a video game machine and not a computer. since I dont have the hddvd add on I am going to just hook my ps3 up to the port i use for the xbox and calibrate the input that way than cross my fingers and hope it all matches.

After reading the professional calibration report that borg.cube posted, I got the incentive to try and raise my value for ftL. I’m pleased to report that I was able to get an ftL value over 30 with an acceptable gamma curve. I had previously reported that I couldn’t get over 20 for ftL with a 2.2 gamma.

ksbarnz, I'm sorry to hear about your TV problem.

[QUOTE=
ksbarnz, I'm sorry to hear about your TV problem.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, looks like the wife and I are going to have to find our entertainment the old fashioned way for a week or so until the part comes in!

Thanks, looks like the wife and I are going to have to find our entertainment the old fashioned way for a week or so until the part comes in!

You mean go back to CRT!! :eek: :eek: :D :p

Seggers

I have a new 60735 that was a Mits replacement for a 57732 that they couldn't fix, light engine problem. The 57732 had perfect geometry but the 60735 has a slight hour glass effect. Is there a service menu to fix this? If so, how do I get to it? And once I get there, how is it used?

Thanks,
Mike

does anyone know if the 835 TVs are compatible with the full RGB setting on the PlayStation 3? I read all 50 some pages in the PlayStation area but didn't find anything specific to this TV. It "looks" better in full rather than limited but this could just be fooling my eye.

I ask because I just got the Digital video essentials blue-ray and don't want to calibrate in the wrong mode. I wish I could go the route of using the sensor to calibrate but since I have to rely on my mom and dad to do stuff for me I'm going to have to be satisfied using the disk and the remote. It's very difficult being obsessive-compulsive and having to rely on others =).

Gimpygod

if you are going to use the ps3 for movies than go with limited.

Finished calibrating my WD 73835 tonight!

Got to get to bed tonight and head out early in AM for my truck driving job - be back next Tues. and will post results then.

Was a bit challenging at times but everything came out OK. Greyscale was really good, all my colors except yellow were close to ideal coordinates. Gamma is low but picture looks fine.

Adjusted Blu Ray input - didn't realize you have to do each input seperately.

Do you need to transfer your service menu adjustments to the other inputs or just the ones from the Mits video menu (like contrast, brightness,'perfect color' etc.)?

Also where would 'perfect tint' adjustments come into use? Must have missed something.

Anyway have a good week and thanks for any input.

I remember reading a while back that if you unplug your TV in either the "power saving" or "fast mode" (I can't remembe) from the global service menu that you can LOOSE ALL YOUR SETTINGS.

Is this true? I need to unplug it to move it/add a new Onkyo 606.

Btw, I have decided to go with eye-one :) Ordered yesterday so should have it mon or tues

billyboygolf, Any changes made in the user menu apply to that input only. Any changes made in the service menu are global (apply to all inputs).
“Perfect tint” allows you to move the colors on a different axis than “perfect color”. The 835 series allows you make all your primary and secondary color adjustments from the user menu.

Sjchmura, I hope we don’t loose all the service menu settings if the TV looses power. If we did, however, it wouldn’t be too difficult to change them back. It would only take a few minutes if you have them recorded elsewhere.
Congratulations on your i1 purchase. I’m sure you’ll appreciate it.

“Perfect tint” allows you to move the colors on a different axis than “perfect color”. The 835 series allows you make all your primary and secondary color adjustments from the user menu.

Actually, you cant make all the necessary color changes from the user menu. you can only effect gain and hue from the perfectcolor and perfectint settings. saturation must be controlled from the service menu. the standard color control will effect saturation but it does so with all primarys at the same time.

it wouldn’t be too difficult to change them back. It would only take a few minutes if you have them recorded elsewhere.

this is only partially true. if you loos your settings than re input them they will likely be off this time . they may be closer but you will still have to recalibrate to some extent. the values in the service menu don't lock a color parameter to one specific point. it doesn't work that way.

On the fast power up mode you will not lose your settings if you unplug the set. for how long, i don't know.

Actually, you cant make all the necessary color changes from the user menu. you can only effect gain and hue from the perfectcolor and perfectint settings. saturation must be controlled from the service menu. the standard color control will effect saturation but it does so with all primarys at the same time.


Please explain the difference between chroma gain and saturation. Aren't they both controlling the amount of a particular color on a luminance level?

Cid67, I’m sorry to disagree with you but with the exception of the gray scale adjustments I made all my primary and secondary color corrections from the user menu (perfect color and perfect tint). I had no problems. I suppose I could have used the service menu but 835 models provide perfect tint, which makes the job a little easier. Why not use it?
Why do you think redoing the service menu values from a recorded list isn’t valid? I’ve done it and it worked fine.

Why do you think redoing the service menu values from a recorded list isn’t valid? I’ve done it and it worked fine.

Agreed, how is it possible for the settings (in any of the menus) to not be deterministic? They would have to be pulling in some source of randomness for the output to not be deterministic which just doesn't make any sense for configuration settings. Now if the hardware changed, or a software upgrade of some other piece of the environment changed it's possible that the same set of settings would not have the same effect.

If the environment doesn't change, and you are using the same set of input values for each of the menu settings I fully expect the display output to be the same as it was prior to the values being reset. If this is not true it is most definitely a bug in the software.

Anyone had their 835 ISF 'tweaked' by a BB (Geek Squad) tech? Were they any good?

Or anyone recommend a decent company in the Buffalo/WNY area?

Cheeky I know.

Seggers

Cid67, I’m sorry to disagree with you but with the exception of the gray scale adjustments I made all my primary and secondary color corrections from the user menu (perfect color and perfect tint). I had no problems. I suppose I could have used the service menu but 835 models provide perfect tint, which makes the job a little easier. Why not use it?
Why do you think redoing the service menu values from a recorded list isn’t valid? I’ve done it and it worked fine.

clearly you need to read some more about color science. there are three characteristics that define any color. they are gain saturation and hue. with perfectcolor you have gain. with perfectint you have hue but without the service menu you don't have saturation. as i said earlier you can use the color control to adjust saturation but it only works on the colors at the same time so unless all your colors are the same in saturation adjusting for one color with the color control will throw off the other colors.

gain is how bright the color is. saturation is how rich the color is. for example a very low saturation will have less color in it and get closer to grey the lower you go. hue is how accurate the color is. a inacurate hue will shift the color toward another color making it less pure. for example if red had an hue shifted toward green it would apear more yellow than it should.

you dont have to believe me on all this if you don't want to, its your color accuracy that will suffer not mine. I'm willing to bet my delta e for colors is closer than yours . the reason, i use saturation as well as gain and hue.

you asked why i use the service menu gain and hue. well, I use the service menu because in may cases it will allow you to hit measurements that are in between the adjustments you can make with perfectint and perfectcolor.

I said that you cant use the same settings to get back to a calibration you did earlier because that's what my eye one is telling me. its not far off but its off. so if you calibrate than change your settings than go back you will likely have to tweak it to some extent to get it right again. this is my experience at least.

heres some color hcfr data of to compair against yours. be aware that when interpreting data its best to look at delta e and not just look at graphs.

gain is how bright the color is. saturation is how rich the color is. for example a very low saturation will have less color in it and get closer to grey the lower you go. hue is how accurate the color is. a inacurate hue will shift the color toward another color making it less pure. for example if red had an hue shifted toward green it would apear more yellow than it should.


Your definitions need some explanation. I agree about low saturation getting closer to grey. But isn't also true that low saturation can also get closer to white, which is similar to your definition of gain being how bright the color is? If you look at chromaticity definitions, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromaticity) there are only two elements that define a color. The RGB gains control the luminance of the image and need to be adjusted to produce the desired color temperature of white over the entire range from black to white. PerfectColor and PerfectTint control the chroma saturation and purity.

Cid67, I won’t pretend to be an expert on this but my understanding is gray scale calibration sets the gain. Gain is controlled by RGBHighEnd, when you calibrate the gray scale. This is all accomplished in the service menu. Once you have your gray scale calibrated, you don’t need to go back into the service menu on the 835s because you have perfect tint. You can move the primary and secondary color points on the CIE diagram with perfect color and perfect tint. You can also do it in the service menu but it’s a little more labor.
Your delta E is very good but that was accomplished during your gray scale calibration. All that I am trying to say is once my gray scale was calibrated I didn’t have to go back into the service menu. Perfect color and perfect tint moved the points on the CIE diagram and had no impact on delta E.

once my greyscale was calibrated my colors delta e was in the 30 to 40 range for most of them and the cie chart looked quite close. it was gain for colors that brought it in line so from what i can gather the greyscale did not define gain for the colors.

But isn't also true that low saturation can also get closer to white, which is similar to your definition of gain being how bright the color is


no because gain doesn't actually change the color so gain would never make the color white just brighter or more ftl.per color.

from what i understand saturation would not make a color white in this instance because it is a measurement of how far the color is saturated from d65. at its lowest point it would be d65.

I am no expert on this ether and i will be perfectly willing to concede that i am wrong but I would like to here from an expert first. in fact if i am wrong i would like to know as a better understanding of this will only benefit my calibration

this guide is what i based much of my understanding of the cms on maybe i need to re read it or missed something.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

this guide is what i based much of my understanding of the cms on maybe i need to re read it or missed something.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

Yes, this explanation is for those sets that do not have user settings of individual colors or a color management system (CMS). In the Mits parlance, PerfectColor, PerfectTint.

well just because Mitsubishi has some control over the cms in the user menu doesn't mean that the concept shouldn't apply. the guide also clearly defines the gain(lightness) (luminance), saturation and hue that I referred to earlier that was stated to be untrue. the only thing I can see that doesn't apply in this guide is getting your measurement for the secondarys right by adjusting the primarys do to the color wheel on the Mitsubishi containing secondary colors, at least as far as i can tell. on what verifiable information do you state that this guide is only for those that dont have some some user menu control over cms as well as control of cms in the service menu, or as you said but I cant believe you meant, those that have a CMS period. this guide is for users with a cms.

I dont mean to be rude but your argument seems to be getting more ridiculous to me in light of the fact that the very guide i referred to seems to be debunking many of you arguments but all you can do is claim the whole guide doesn't apply. at the bottom of the guide it clearly list a reference to the 2008 Mitsubishi diamond having a fully functional cms and this does imply that the guide should be considered with these sets.

I dont mean to be rude but your argument seems to be getting more ridiculous to me in light of the fact that the very guide i referred to seems to be debunking many of you arguments but all you can do is claim the whole guide doesn't apply. at the bottom of the guide it clearly list a reference to the 2008 Mitsubishi diamond having a fully functional cms and this does imply that the guide should be considered with these sets.

You and I are apparently talking past each other. To be specific, here's what I'm referring to:

Color Decoding. This is the display's ability to properly render the relative lightness of the primaries and hue of the secondaries. All commercial displays include a Color and Tint control. These are basically color decoding controls, though their effectiveness is extremely limited because Color adjusts the lightness of ALL of the colors and Tint effects hue of ALL of the secondaries. The problem is that displays all-too-often have color decoding errors that effect the colors differently. For example, you can adjust Color/Tint to get the correct lightness of blue and the correct hue of cyan, but the lightness of green and red can still be inaccurate. You could adjust the color control for red, but then blue and green would be inaccurate. See the problem? A full set of color decoding controls addresses this problem by offering color/tint controls that operate on red/magenta and green/yellow independently.

This paragraph, except for the last sentence is totally talking about a color system with no CMS. Now if you are thinking along the same lines then we're on the same channel.

Edit - after some additional thinking on this definition, I think there may be an error in the paragraph which might be confusing you. A color control associated with a color decoder is affecting the saturation of all colors not the lightness. Lightness is totally dependent on the luminance component of the color, and is adjusted using a grey scale TP.

I would say we are in agreement there. this is what i have been saying. color controls saturation for all primary colors. tint controls hue and a fully functional cms has control for hue,saturation and luminance for colors. are we in agreement? if so where is the disagreement.

I contest that you can fully adjust the mitsubishi colors without using hue, saturation, and lightness or luminance. that is why you cant fully adjust the colors without using saturation controls unless the saturation is already correct. I don't see how grey scale would determine a colors luminance or saturation. it could shift a colors hue in the direction that grey may be shifted toward if its off but that's it to my understanding.

My 65736 arrived today...I just plugged your settings in...wow! Looks great!

Only thing is my darks (when in between sceens, the black screen seems a little light) are not real dark.

Any suggestions?

Edit - after some additional thinking on this definition, I think there may be an error in the paragraph which might be confusing you. A color control associated with a color decoder is affecting the saturation of all colors not the lightness. Lightness is totally dependent on the luminance component of the color, and is adjusted using a grey scale TP.No, the quote is correct. Color controls typically adjust chroma gain. Chroma is a mixture of lightness and saturation, but as a practical matter reasonably small adjustments to the Color control will have a much larger effect on the color's lightness than on its saturation. It is an easily measured phenomenon. Measure the saturation and the brightness of red with the Color control set to neutral. Now lower the control 3 or 4 ticks. You should see that saturation is changed very little, but the color becomes measurably dimmer.

Also, you are confusing the gray scale--which is the proper xy coordinate of white at varying levels of stimulus--with the lightness of the primary and secondary colors. The two are completely unrelated. However, grayscale tracking does have an effect on the hue of the secondaries.

thanks for clearing that up.

No, the quote is correct. Color controls typically adjust chroma gain. Chroma is a mixture of lightness and saturation, but as a practical matter reasonably small adjustments to the Color control will have a much larger effect on the color's lightness than on its saturation. It is an easily measured phenomenon. Measure the saturation and the brightness of red with the Color control set to neutral. Now lower the control 3 or 4 ticks. You should see that saturation is changed very little, but the color becomes measurably dimmer.

Also, you are confusing the gray scale--which is the proper xy coordinate of white at varying levels of stimulus--with the lightness of the primary and secondary colors. The two are completely unrelated. However, grayscale tracking does have an effect on the hue of the secondaries.

Thanks for this explanation. However, this may or may not answer the original question - that is, does the PerfectColor function in the Mits control both color lightness and saturation with the end result being you have full control of all color rendering adjustments at the user level in the 835? That is, not including the channel gain adjustments needed for gray scale tracking.

In my experience calibrating my 735 I did not see much change in either the saturation or hue of the colors when adjusting PerfectColor. In some cases it did shift things slightly, but those controls mainly seem to affect the luminance of the color without affecting anything else.

In my experience calibrating my 735 I did not see much change in either the saturation or hue of the colors when adjusting PerfectColor. In some cases it did shift things slightly, but those controls mainly seem to affect the luminance of the color without affecting anything else.

I believe the 735 has only PerfectColor which would only affect saturation/lightness. And then not to a degree that would significantly alter color rendering. I have a LCD Mits with PerfectColor and need color filters to see what effect the controls are having.

color filters may not get you to a good level. at least they dont for the dlp sets.
do you have a meter? the perfectcolor mostly effects luminance ,as i have been saying, without changing saturation or hue to any significant degree. perfectint is hue. I don't know how many times I have to say this for you to believe me. it seems like you just aren't hearing people. madsend just explained what i have been trying to tell you and you still refute it as if you are certain. tell us do you have a meter and are you verifying your results or are you just making things up.

These are the settings I used, however my blues seem almost "neon", I see blue in the shading areas where it is supposed to be black, and when a big section of green is on screen, you can see the blue bleed or dots (technical term). What below (primarily in the service manual, but perfect color, too) can I adjust to fix the blue with out messing up the rest. Also, what do the letters stand for? PLEASE help!:(

Perfect Color
44
37
32
45
45
27

Color 31
Tint 28
Contrast 13
Brightness 30
Color Temp Low
Video Noise off
Deep Field Imager Off
Sharpness 35

Service Menu
ggl 1025
grl 1015
gbl 1044
cca 1
grl 128
srl 128
hrl 17
ggl 128
sgl 127
hgl 28
gbl 128
sbl 128
hbl 0
gcl 70
scl 105
hcl 70
gml 95
sml 128
hml 70
gyl 128
syl 117
hyl 42
grwl 128
ggwl 110
gbwl 110
bmg 1
bmr 12
bmb 65527
ofg 0
ofr 65532
ofb 3
cmg 150
cmr 150
cmb 150
idl 36
dbk 1

color filters may not get you to a good level. at least they dont for the dlp sets.
do you have a meter? the perfectcolor mostly effects luminance ,as i have been saying, without changing saturation or hue to any significant degree. perfectint is hue. I don't know how many times I have to say this for you to believe me. it seems like you just aren't hearing people. madsend just explained what i have been trying to tell you and you still refute it as if you are certain. tell us do you have a meter and are you verifying your results or are you just making things up.

You are not reading accurately and neither am I writing accurately. I did not refute anything madsend explained, but perhaps I should have written "I believe the 735 has only PerfectColor which would only affect lightness/saturation" rather than "I believe the 735 has only PerfectColor which would only affect saturation/lightness."

I do not have a meter nor a DLP set, yet, but I'm interested in knowing if the user controls Mits has provided for PerfectColor and PerfectTint allow the set to display a color image meeting the 709 colorspace HD standard or are there additional adjustments required in the service menu to meet this standard. That's all! Sorry to be such a PITA.

Thanks for this explanation. However, this may or may not answer the original question - that is, does the PerfectColor function in the Mits control both color lightness and saturation with the end result being you have full control of all color rendering adjustments at the user level in the 835? That is, not including the channel gain adjustments needed for gray scale tracking.I assume that PerfectColor is a chroma gain circuit for individual colors, so its primary effect will be on brightness, but it will have a much smaller effect on saturation.

You can adjust saturation, but it requires a service menu adjustment, which is very tricky because it seems to have some interactive effects and you have to leave service to measure the results. Thus, the process is very time-consuming, but doable. I am mystified as to why Mits didn't put PerfectSaturation controls in the user menu as well.

You can adjust saturation, but it requires a service menu adjustment, which is very tricky because it seems to have some interactive effects and you have to leave service to measure the results. Thus, the process is very time-consuming, but doable

boy Ill say its time consuming. things also don't behave like you would expect them to and in some cases go in the complete opposite direction from what you would expect them to until you get everything closer to accurate. at that point things seem to behave more predictably. Mitsubishi doesn't seem to realy care to make the calibration process user friendly at all. after much trial and error and frustration I can say these sets can calibrate pretty well. I dont like how the auto iris effects gamma but I don't think anything can really be done about that.

Hi-- Tom H.--my ISF-calibrator came back after studying the new service menu on the MITS Diamonds and did some more color saturation tweaking (not just gray scale) within the the service menu.

I have an updated ISF calibration report for my WD-73835

These are the settings I used, however my blues seem almost "neon", I see blue in the shading areas where it is supposed to be black, and when a big section of green is on screen, you can see the blue bleed or dots (technical term). What below (primarily in the service manual, but perfect color, too) can I adjust to fix the blue with out messing up the rest. Also, what do the letters stand for? PLEASE help!:(



gbl 1044


This setting controls the bue gain. If this is set too high, things that should be colored white will appear to have a bluish tinge to them. It also can lead to oversaturation of the colors which could be what you are seeing as "neon". A value of 1044 is set higher than the default (on my set anyway) so I would start by backing that off a bit. Without an accurate colorimeter it may be difficult to set these values appropriately for your TV, since it appears there is enough variance from set to set or model to model to have quite different results from the same calibration settings.

Hi-- Tom H.--my ISF-calibrator came back after studying the new service menu on the MITS Diamonds and did some more color saturation tweaking (not just gray scale) within the the service menu.

I have an updated ISF calibration report for my WD-73835

A very comprehensive report. Two questions:

1. Is there any indication that some settings need to be individualized for each HDMI source?

2. Can the settings for PerfectColor and PerfectTint also be accessed using the service menu thus globally affecting all inputs?

I now believe Cid is correct. You can’t set the luminance of each color in the user menu. That has to be done in the service menu. You can hit the xy values for each color but not Y.
I’m surprised how good the picture can look with the xy values set correctly but luminance set incorrectly.
Most of the time my picture looked great with incorrect luminance but on occasion I would get some strange colors to appear especially in dark scenes.

now believe Cid is correct. You can’t set the luminance of each color in the user menu. That has to be done in the service menu. You can hit the xy values for each color but not Y.

That's not what i am saying. You can adjust the luminance in the perfectcolor, hue in perfectint but not saturation. That has to be done with the basic color control and the service menu color management system. i

f your cie chart looks right but you still have high delta e for your colors than it can only be luminance (gain) that needs adjusting.

Cid, Thank you for the correction. I haven’t worked with it yet. I simply convinced myself that all three variables must be adjusted for each color. I’m about to give it a try.

you are correct that all 3 variables must be adjusted for all colors.

Thanks MadsenD!

I reset to my factory setting...the blue was that bad...will reload those settings and adjust as you suggested.

I have an updated ISF calibration report for my WD-73835

Jesus, Mary and Joseph... Mitsubishi shouldn't be allowed to send sets out that are that far off. I just purchased a 73835 last week and I plan on having it calibrated once my travel/work schedule allows. I haven't had a lot of time to play with it yet since I've been gone since the day after I got it, but I have used the basic THX included set-up patterns on a DVD and improved it ever so slightly. I have to agree with most people on here, out of the box these sets are WAY off. It's shameful. The picture is sharp-as-a-tack, but the color accuracy, skin tones, etc. can't touch the Sony 60XBR950 that it's replacing(at least not until it's calibrated). Even the 32" LG LCD in my bedroom has better color accuracy right now. I'm holding my breath that it will be as good as everyone says after a professional calibration. I can see the potential, but I hope I get a patient calibrator!

Jesus, Mary and Joseph... Mitsubishi shouldn't be allowed to send sets out that are that far off. I just purchased a 73835 last week and I plan on having it calibrated once my travel/work schedule allows. I haven't had a lot of time to play with it yet since I've been gone since the day after I got it, but I have used the basic THX included set-up patterns on a DVD and improved it ever so slightly. I have to agree with most people on here, out of the box these sets are WAY off. It's shameful. The picture is sharp-as-a-tack, but the color accuracy, skin tones, etc. can't touch the Sony 60XBR950 that it's replacing(at least not until it's calibrated). Even the 32" LG LCD in my bedroom has better color accuracy right now. I'm holding my breath that it will be as good as everyone says after a professional calibration. I can see the potential, but I hope I get a patient calibrator!

Mitsubishi's have never been known to be anywhere close to NTSC standards out of the box. A color temp of 9000+ is the norm, as you see in borg.cube's pre calibration settings. Other manufacturers sets are way off to, even though some appear to be trying to give you something in the ballpark out of the box. My Samsung HLS 6188 was calibrated by UMR. My pre calibration settings, the ones I did outside the service menu, measured much closer to the target numbers than borg.cube's set. My post calibration setting resulted in a near perfect grayscale, gamma and color points. So, while borg.cube's 73835 post calibration measures pretty good, I suspect that Mitsubishi still hasn't put the effort needed in their DLP RPTV's to allow an ISF calibration that hits all the numbers on the mark. Even post calibration the grey scale varies about 740 degrees from 6500 degree target.

When it comes to color accuracy the 6188 is one of the finest sets released in the past several years. Because of UMR I'm now getting the best color I've ever seen in any television set. In some ways it's a curse, as I now notice things in other sets I never would have noticed before.

Why am I here nit picking borg.cube's set? Why am I thinking about replacing my Samsung with a set that, in general, doesn't measure as well as mine? Two reasons. First, I want a bigger set. Second, a .01 black level. The weakness of my set is black level, .01 is much better than the Samsung.

While the Mit's still can't be calibrated as well as they should, borg.cube's does in fact measure pretty well. If the lazervue turns to vapor I'm going to take a hard look at the 73835. I want to thank borg.cube for being kind enough to post his calibration results.

I adjusted my gbl to 1004 vs 1044

AND

I adjusted the cca from 1 to 0 and that seemed to help alot!


What is CCA? I noticed it seemed to brighten the screen. Is it bad to have it set at 0?

A breakout of all of them would be very helpful (hint hint).

BTW, Hairspray is a good film for color setting...A LOT of colors, plus the wife doesn't get quite as mad when I have to mess with the TV.

I adjusted my gbl to 1004 vs 1044

AND

I adjusted the cca from 1 to 0 and that seemed to help alot!


What is CCA? I noticed it seemed to brighten the screen. Is it bad to have it set at 0?

A breakout of all of them would be very helpful (hint hint).

BTW, Hairspray is a good film for color setting...A LOT of colors, plus the wife doesn't get quite as mad when I have to mess with the TV.


I believe CCA stands for "color coordinate adjustment" and changing this option to 0 disables the ability to adjust each color in the service menu. Setting it to 1 allows you to make changes. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Are you taking readings using a colorimeter such as an i1, using color filters, or just eye-balling it to calibrate your TV. It looks like from your prior post that you used my settings from the first page. Chances are they might not work for you but might give a good base or at least offer some help as what to adjust.

If you are using a colorimeter you can post your readings here and I'd be glad to help you with any problems you are having.

A very comprehensive report. Two questions:

1. Is there any indication that some settings need to be individualized for each HDMI source?

2. Can the settings for PerfectColor and PerfectTint also be accessed using the service menu thus globally affecting all inputs?

The service menu is global but the Perfect Color & Perfect Tint on the user menu is per input.

My set receives all its inputs through a single HDMI line from my Onkyo 905 receiver -Onkyo just released the new 906 :( BTW. While I guess you could run individual inputs from each source to the tv, it doesn't make sense if I want to play all the audio through my 7.2 speaker system. Some input devices (DVD, etc) do allow color managment within their own menus but I haven't touched that. If the Onkyo had color managmentment per input than each could be adjusted independent of the tv. The 905 doesn't-- haven't looked at the video specs on the 906.

In the service menu you can access variables which I believe will do the same as PC and PT globally--but the ISF calibrator handled that not me. He did use a combination of service settings and user menu settings. Tom Huffman who posted earlier in this thread would be the one to PM for that question.

BC

My set receives all its inputs through a single HDMI line from my Onkyo 905 receiver ...

Good to know... if you don't mind me going OT for a sec, are you using the Reon, or bypassing it? If you are bypassing it, is it because of the colorspace issues of the Onkyo implementation of the Reon, or do you feel the Mits has an equal or better scaler? I have an 875, and I've been using the Reon (not using it isn't a good option, as my current 1080i TV has a very limited scaler: it downscales 720p to 480p instead of upscaling to 1080i). Now that I have upgraded to a 73736 (though not installed yet), I'm having to reconsider my upscaling options. I'm HOPING that a new firmwware will fix the color space issues, and assuming the scaling/deinterlacing performance of the Reon will still be considered equal to or better than what's in most displays.

Thanks!

billyboygolf, Any changes made in the user menu apply to that input only. Any changes made in the service menu are global (apply to all inputs).
“Perfect tint” allows you to move the colors on a different axis than “perfect color”. The 835 series allows you make all your primary and secondary color adjustments from the user menu.

Vandu, Thanks for the info.

Here are the results of my first attempt at calibration.

First the positive:the greyscale seems OK. The negative: primary and secondaries are pitiful compared to what you guys achieved.

Maybe it's because I left it on 'Brilliant' mode - I like the brighter picture. But then had to turn contrast down from 47 to 13 to get the light output under 40 ftL. , as was recommended. I think I'll start off in 'Natural' mode, recalibrate and see how it comes out.

Any tips on getting primaries and secondaries closer to reference?

Thanks for any input.

GRH 1024
GRH 1079
GBH 803
CCA 1
GRH 128
SRH 128
HRH 24
GGH 128
SGH 119
HGH 36
GBH 128
SBH 128
HBH 0
GCH 128
SCH 72
HCH 60
GMH 128
SMH 126
HMH 75
GYH 128
SYH 115
HYH 105
GRWH 119
GGWH 128
GBWH 128
BMG 0
BMR 2
BMB 65532
OFG 0
OFR 0
OFB 0
CMG 100
CMR 100
CMB 100
IDL 37
DBK 1

117837

Billyboygolf,

For your grayscale I would bump GBL up 5 or six notches to try and bring your high end of the grayscale in line. If I were you I'd set your TV to natural and then try to calibrate like you suggested. If you want to keep it with Brilliant here are some suggestions:

Red: Your luminance (Y) looks good but your xy coordinates are a good bit off. This is causing the large dE number you are seeing. You should be able to bring this closer in line with perfect tint. Also try the saturation control for red (SRL) in the service menu.

Green: Same as red, Luminance is good but xy is off. Try a combination of perfect tint and service menu controls.

Blue: Try bringing blue perfect color down a notch to get your Y around 9.4. Your x looks good but y is off. Same as above, try perfect tint and service menu.

Yellow: Your luminance (Y) for Yellow is pretty high. Try bringing it down to 120 by taking perfect color yellow down a few notches.

Cyan: Luminance (Y) looks low, try bumping perfect color up to get Y close to 102.

Magenta: Your xy is a pretty good ways off and your luminance looks a little low. Try bumping perfect color to get Y close to 32.

What are you using to adjust your xy values for each color? It might take a combination of perfect tint and the service menu to bring them in line.

1. Is there any indication that some settings need to be individualized for each HDMI source?

2. Can the settings for PerfectColor and PerfectTint also be accessed using the service menu thus globally affecting all inputs?Color performance among HDMI inputs should be the same, though you may see some differences with white and black levels.

Yes. Hue, Saturation, and Brightness parameters for all colors can be adjusted in the service menu, though it is VERY time-consuming. I choose to accomplish as much as possible in the user menu and then supplement that with the service tweaks where necessary--this was mostly adjustments to yellow and cyan saturation.

Color performance among HDMI inputs should be the same, though you may see some differences with white and black levels.

Yes. Hue, Saturation, and Brightness parameters for all colors can be adjusted in the service menu, though it is VERY time-consuming. I choose to accomplish as much as possible in the user menu and then supplement that with the service tweaks where necessary--this was mostly adjustments to yellow and cyan saturation.

Thanks for the info. I would hope that any HDMI differences in black and white levels could be adjusted at the signal source or in a digital receiver before the HDMI switch.

It seems the TV manufacturers or maybe HDMI standards themselves have made it necessary to switch HDMI in a digital receiver if you want to have the ability to listen to 7.1 audio. I'm not aware any TV has 7.1 switched audio output to feed a digital receiver.

So, in this case, multi-HDMI inputs having individual user controls on TVs seem almost useless. Am I reading the situation correctly?

This may be useful to some that are trying to dial in their colors a bit better using the service menu controls. After playing around with the controls a bit I was able to get a general feel for how each of the settings affected the color coordinates.

For each color there are 3 individual controls for what I'm assuming is gain, saturation, and hue. You'll want to use these settings to help bring the colors in to the reference levels.

G<RGBCYM>L - The gain control will control the luminance (or Y) value of the selected color. This doesn't change the x,y coordinates much but will have a definate impact on the luminance. The corresponding PerfectColor seems to control the same thing this service menu control does, but at a larger granularity and with a different range. This is the control that affects the brightness of a given color.

S<RGBCYM>L - This controls the saturation, or amount of color at any given brightness. As you drop this control to 0, the color will shift toward a shade of grey at a similar brightness. If you are looking at the colors on the CIE94 plot, this controls effect will seem to move the colors coordinates inward toward the white point.

H<RGBCYM>L - on the CIE94 plot the hue control will adjust the angle of the color from white. For those with PerfectTint controls, this is probably similar to adjusting that.

If you imagine there being a circle placed with it's center at the white point, the hue will adjust the color along the circumference of the circle, while saturation will adjust the radius.

I'm not an expert or professional calibrator so YMMV, but after entering and exiting the service menu many many times (and this is quite tedious!) in the process of my calibration this is how I saw the x,y points behaving after changing the service menu controls.

Billyboygolf,

For your grayscale I would bump GBL up 5 or six notches to try and bring your high end of the grayscale in line. If I were you I'd set your TV to natural and then try to calibrate like you suggested. If you want to keep it with Brilliant here are some suggestions:

Red: Your luminance (Y) looks good but your xy coordinates are a good bit off. This is causing the large dE number you are seeing. You should be able to bring this closer in line with perfect tint. Also try the saturation control for red (SRL) in the service menu.

Green: Same as red, Luminance is good but xy is off. Try a combination of perfect tint and service menu controls.

Blue: Try bringing blue perfect color down a notch to get your Y around 9.4. Your x looks good but y is off. Same as above, try perfect tint and service menu.

Yellow: Your luminance (Y) for Yellow is pretty high. Try bringing it down to 120 by taking perfect color yellow down a few notches.

Cyan: Luminance (Y) looks low, try bumping perfect color up to get Y close to 102.

Magenta: Your xy is a pretty good ways off and your luminance looks a little low. Try bumping perfect color to get Y close to 32.

What are you using to adjust your xy values for each color? It might take a combination of perfect tint and the service menu to bring them in line.

ksbarnz

Thanks for that specific advice.

I've been using saturation and hue in the service menu -for exaple SRH + HRH for Red to adjust the x and y coordinates for Red (SGH + HGH for Green and so on). That's all - nothing else. Is that right? Should I also use 'perfect color' and 'perfect tint' to adjust x and y coordinates for each color?

I didn't look at the Y value (luminance) of each color at all . So 'perfect color' will adjust the Y value up or down - correct?

How do I tell if the Y value is high or low for that color - how do I know what it should be?

Thanks, Bill

This may be useful to some that are trying to dial in their colors a bit better using the service menu controls. After playing around with the controls a bit I was able to get a general feel for how each of the settings affected the color coordinates.

For each color there are 3 individual controls for what I'm assuming is gain, saturation, and hue. You'll want to use these settings to help bring the colors in to the reference levels.

G<RGBCYM>L - The gain control will control the luminance (or Y) value of the selected color. This doesn't change the x,y coordinates much but will have a definate impact on the luminance. The corresponding PerfectColor seems to control the same thing this service menu control does, but at a larger granularity and with a different range. This is the control that affects the brightness of a given color.

S<RGBCYM>L - This controls the saturation, or amount of color at any given brightness. As you drop this control to 0, the color will shift toward a shade of grey at a similar brightness. If you are looking at the colors on the CIE94 plot, this controls effect will seem to move the colors coordinates inward toward the white point.

H<RGBCYM>L - on the CIE94 plot the hue control will adjust the angle of the color from white. For those with PerfectTint controls, this is probably similar to adjusting that.

If you imagine there being a circle placed with it's center at the white point, the hue will adjust the color along the circumference of the circle, while saturation will adjust the radius.

I'm not an expert or professional calibrator so YMMV, but after entering and exiting the service menu many many times (and this is quite tedious!) in the process of my calibration this is how I saw the x,y points behaving after changing the service menu controls.

Madsend,

Good explanation - makes things clearer to me. Also good tips on how to use each control.

Have only used saturation and hue in service menu with pretty poor results.

Haven't used Gain in service menu at all. Also haven't used 'perfect tint' but will try tomorrow.

Oh boy.. Twas a wonderful night as about 2 hours ago I ordered the 60735 to be delivered free on Sep 2 (for 1350!!) then I rushed to avsforums of course to read more.. Don't get me wrong, still extremely stoked to be replacing my all too soon-failing Hitachi 57f59 set, but it looks like I've got my work cut out for me to make this thing look its best..

I've read the entire thread and was hopin for some out of the box settings that will at least get this baby lookin good for the beginning of football season until it breaks in and I can tweak further. Maybe I missed em, I was reading fast, but seem to only remember deeper SM tweaks. TIA

ksbarnz

Thanks for that specific advice.

I've been using saturation and hue in the service menu -for exaple SRH + HRH for Red to adjust the x and y coordinates for Red (SGH + HGH for Green and so on). That's all - nothing else. Is that right? Should I also use 'perfect color' and 'perfect tint' to adjust x and y coordinates for each color?

I didn't look at the Y value (luminance) of each color at all . So 'perfect color' will adjust the Y value up or down - correct?

How do I tell if the Y value is high or low for that color - how do I know what it should be?

Thanks, Bill


Here is what you are going to try and adjust each color to.

Rec. 709 (High Definition)
--------------x-------y-------Y
Red----------0.640---0.330---0.2127
Green--------0.300---0.600---0.7151
Blue----------0.150---0.060---0.0722
Yellow--------0.419---0.505---0.9278
Cyan---------0.225---0.329---0.7873
Magenta------0.321---0.154---0.2849
White--------0.3127--0.329---1.0


The chart shows the x y and Y value for each color. I'd start with Perfect Tint to try and dial in each color's xy value but it might take a combination of Perfect Tint and the service menu to get it perfect. Use Perfect Color to dial in the Y value for each color. To find the Y value for each color take a 100% white reading and look at it's Y value. Now multiply this value by the Y value in the above chart. The result is the Y value you are shooting for for that color.

To make it easier to calibrate a color, show a 100% color window from you calibration disk and pause it. Start taking a continuous reading with ColorHCFR and start making your adjustments and notice how they affect the xyY values for each color. Once you start to get a feel for how to adjust them it should go pretty smooth, but it will definitely take some time.

Oh boy.. Twas a wonderful night as about 2 hours ago I ordered the 60735 to be delivered free on Sep 2 (for 1350!!) then I rushed to avsforums of course to read more.. Don't get me wrong, still extremely stoked to be replacing my all too soon-failing Hitachi 57f59 set, but it looks like I've got my work cut out for me to make this thing look its best..

I've read the entire thread and was hopin for some out of the box settings that will at least get this baby lookin good for the beginning of football season until it breaks in and I can tweak further. Maybe I missed em, I was reading fast, but seem to only remember deeper SM tweaks. TIA

Honestly out of the box every set is different, but so far none have seemed to be close to correct, color wise. You might start with these settings until you can calibrate your set.

Color Temp: Low
DeepField Imager: Off
Contrast: Somwhere between 45-50 (whatever looks good to you)
Picture Mode: Natural

Without a colorimeter or color filters it might be hard to tell how far your colors are off. There really has not been any "rhyme or reason" to these sets colors, just that most of they have been pretty far off. These settings above should make it look better than what it does out of the box.

my Eye one lt is not giving me consistent readings across different calibration sessions. I get it perfect one day than go back the next and the measurements will be different by a good amount. is anyone else experiencing this. how can i know whats accurate if the eye one gives different readings each day.

my Eye one lt is not giving me consistent readings across different calibration sessions. I get it perfect one day than go back the next and the measurements will be different by a good amount. is anyone else experiencing this. how can i know whats accurate if the eye one gives different readings each day.

You might have a bad i1. My readings are different each time but they are by a very small amount. What mode are you taking readings in CRT/LCD in ColorHCFR?

Honestly out of the box every set is different, but so far none have seemed to be close to correct, color wise. You might start with these settings until you can calibrate your set.

Color Temp: Low
DeepField Imager: Off
Contrast: Somwhere between 45-50 (whatever looks good to you)
Picture Mode: Natural

Without a colorimeter or color filters it might be hard to tell how far your colors are off. There really has not been any "rhyme or reason" to these sets colors, just that most of they have been pretty far off. These settings above should make it look better than what it does out of the box.

Thanks for the quick tips! Will brightness and sharpness be cranked on this thing by default or pretty acceptable?

You might have a bad i1. My readings are different each time but they are by a very small amount. What mode are you taking readings in CRT/LCD in ColorHCFR?

I use LCD. I tried crt but it wouldn't calibrate because it tries to detect the crt refresh rate and fails. how did you get your Eye one to read in crt mode?

perhaps the inconsistency has something to do with the lcd mode. The constant reading mode tends to lock randomly, especially with very bright patterns. it does come back eventually but it sometimes takes a few minutes. I wonder if this problem is linked to my inconstant readings.

its funny, I don't believe this was always happening but it could just be that the inconsistency of the readings only sometimes happens between sessions.

I use LCD. I tried crt but it wouldn't calibrate because it tries to detect the crt refresh rate and fails. how did you get your Eye one to read in crt mode?

perhaps the inconsistency has something to do with the lcd mode. The constant reading mode tends to lock randomly, especially with very bright patterns. it does come back eventually but it sometimes takes a few minutes. I wonder if this problem is linked to my inconstant readings.

its funny, I don't believe this was always happening but it could just be that the inconsistency of the readings only sometimes happens between sessions.

My i1 would freeze also when in lcd mode. Almost to the point where it was unusable. Switching to CRT fixed the problem, and I was able to get constant readings which also matched the lcd readings.

Strange, I don't know why yours will not work in crt mode? When you say it won't calibrate, is it the initial calibration where you put up a 100 percent white screen to calibrate the i1?

I didn't do anything on the back end to make my i1 work in CRT mode. I wonder of others here are switching their i1's to CRT or are able to use them in LCD mode.

I had the same lockup issues with the i1 running in LCD mode. Switching to CRT and calibrating it on a 100% white screen fixed those lockups.

I use LCD. I tried crt but it wouldn't calibrate because it tries to detect the crt refresh rate and fails. how did you get your Eye one to read in crt mode?

perhaps the inconsistency has something to do with the lcd mode. The constant reading mode tends to lock randomly, especially with very bright patterns. it does come back eventually but it sometimes takes a few minutes. I wonder if this problem is linked to my inconstant readings.

its funny, I don't believe this was always happening but it could just be that the inconsistency of the readings only sometimes happens between sessions.

LCD mode was locking up and driving me nuts.

I couldn't get my i1 to calibrate for CRT mode either if using a 100% white screen (on TV). Think it said "couldn't detect refresh rate".

Then noticed that my PC was displaying a white downsized box (not fullscreen)when attempting to use CRT mode so I put the i1 against it (on PC) and that worked fine for me.

My i1 would freeze also when in lcd mode.I assume that you are using HCFR. It is a bug in the software.

Second calibration results

This one came out way better, thanks to everyones tips and advice!

Decided to have another shot at calibrating everything in 'Brilliant' mode since I like the brighter picture. Seems that these sets still look good like that - unlike my 06' Mits. Left the contrast up at 45 this time which gave me around 75ftL on a 100% white screen - way above recommended I know but it didn't cause any problems.

Used GRH + GBH for upper end and BMR + BMB for low end of greyscale.

Did the luminance on all colors first this time using mostly 'Perfect Color'. Tweaked the service menu gains a few times but not much.

Adjusted xy of colors with 'Perfect Tint' first and then saturation and hue in service menu after that. That was good advice - ksbarnz. Definitely the most tedious part tho.

How does it look? Really nice! Natural skin tones, just natural looking scenes -no neon out-of-place colors.

With such a high contrast setting I left Deep Field Imager on. With that on I didn't lose "lighter details into white" (white clipping) as the manual says or have trouble getting a flat greyscale. So you definitely can have a brighter picture and still get an accurate calibration.

Any comments or advice are welcome.

118018

I had previously reported that after calibration with my Blu-ray player the colors were off for my DVR. I am pleased to say, after recalibrating correctly this time, the same color settings look great for all inputs. My first calibration, incorrectly, did not include all three color components.
I also have had computer lockups especially reading the secondary colors. It’s good to know it’s just a software glitch with HCFR.

I wish i could afford calman but starting at around 150 bucks ts hard to swallow.

Strange that some of us can use the crt mode and some of us get the cant detect crt refresh rate error I assume its supposed to say that on non crt screens.

I wish i could afford calman but starting at around 150 bucks ts hard to swallow.

Strange that some of us can use the crt mode and some of us get the cant detect crt refresh rate error I assume its supposed to say that on non crt screens.

I completely agree. I thought about CalMan as well but couldn't justify spending the money on it. I'm going to post in the ColorHCFR thread in display calibration to see if we can get some help on this. I know there is a new beta coming out and maybe it addresses this problem.

Hey guy. I've had my 73835 for about a week and a half now. Out of the box, it was obviously off, so for the time being, I grabbed a DVD with a set of basic THX test patterns and attempted to tweak. It improved things by about half a frogs hair. I tweaked a little more by eye and got an acceptable picture considering. Well, my copy of DVE on Blu-ray came in yesterday, so I started tweaking last night(BTW, I am going to have the set ISF calibrated). I used my PS3 hooked up via HDMI(BTW, PS3 won't do blacker-than-black).

So, on my first attempt, I use the NATURAL setting and COLOR TEMP: HIGH. I set the brightness and contrast(setting contrast seems very tricky with these sets because no matter what, you still see everything and the extremes). I then move on to COLOR. I use the blue filter and with the COLOR and TINT adjustments I get everything close, then I move on to PERFECT COLOR and PERFECT TINT to dial-in the colors that aren't displaying properly. After getting everything to display properly with the blue filter, I move on to the red filter and repeat untill they're right. Go back to blue and tweak again. At this point, with both the blue and red filters, everything is "perfect". Now to the green filter. :eek::eek::eek: Holly crap!!! CYAN is the only color to disappear. GREEN will pretty much blend in if you crank it all the way, but then it becomes neon. Blue will turn black, but only turned down all the way, which obviously isn't right and the rest are off, too. Not even RED looks black-black. For the time being, I gave up on the green filter and started playing the test/demo material. It looked pretty good, so I applied these settings to my DirectTV HD DVR input as well. I pop in a Blu-ray(Pirates of the Carribean 2) and skin tones are way off in most circumstance, major YELLOW push(you'll see why on my settings below) and most scenes are taking on a yellow tint. I flip over the the satellite input and it's the same thing. I dial yellow back on the satellite input and it looks a little better, but still far from right.
Settings:
NATURAL
COLOR TEMP: HIGH
BRIGHTNESS: 30
CONTRAST:28
COLOR:44
TINT:37
PERFECT COLOR/PERFECT TINT
M:46/57
R:28/33
Y:44/31
G:32/31
C:31/31
B:30/31

So, I try again with COLOR TEMP: LOW. And for the record, if LOW is anywhere even remotely close to 6500K on my set, I'm going straight to the eye doctor. I'm a cameraman and I have two proffesional HD monitors I use in the field, so I know what a proper picture should look like ;). Once again, I was able to get everything "perfect" with the BLUE and RED filters, but with the GREEN filter, nothing except CYAN would line up. This time around, skin tones look much better, but WHITES are "dirty" and too warm and the overall picture, especially on the satellite is too warm and looks "dirty". I toggle back and forth with HIGH and LOW color temp settings and going back to HIGH improves the overall look and brings whites closer back to white, but then skin tones go to hell again at times. Again, the demo material on the disk looke pretty good, but when playing movies and sattellite, it doesn't.

Settings:
NATURAL
COLOR TEMP: LOW
BRIGHTNESS: 30
CONTRAST: 28
COLOR:28
TINT:27

PERFECT COLOR/PERFECT TINT
M: 43/16
R: 39/31
Y: 37/31
G: 31/31
C:31/31
B:31/31

I know that these sets are way off out-of-the-box and need professional calibration, but I'm hoping to get a good picture to hold me over till I can get a calibrator to adjust it. Any thoughts or ideas about how I may be able to dial the color in a little closer without getting into the service menu(I don't have any of the proper instuments or hardware). It really bothers me that i can get the colors to line-up under the BLUE and RED filters but under GREEN it's sooo off.

Also, does anyone know the proper codes and keys/key sequences to use to adjust geometry/keystone and over/underscan?

Thanks...

How does the Eye-One LT work with a MacBook OS 10.5? I have BootCamp hooked up and can use Windows XP Home with the MacBook if needed.

Hey guy. I've had my 73835 for about a week and a half now. Out of the box, it was obviously off, so for the time being, I grabbed a DVD with a set of basic THX test patterns and attempted to tweak. It improved things by about half a frogs hair. I tweaked a little more by eye and got an acceptable picture considering. Well, my copy of DVE on Blu-ray came in yesterday, so I started tweaking last night(BTW, I am going to have the set ISF calibrated). I used my PS3 hooked up via HDMI(BTW, PS3 won't do blacker-than-black).

So, on my first attempt, I use the NATURAL setting and COLOR TEMP: HIGH. I set the brightness and contrast(setting contrast seems very tricky with these sets because no matter what, you still see everything at the extremes). I then move on to COLOR. I use the blue filter and with the COLOR and TINT adjustments I get everything close, then I move on to PERFECT COLOR and PERFECT TINT to dial-in the colors that aren't displaying properly. After getting everything to display properly with the blue filter, I move on to the red filter and repeat until they're right. Go back to blue and tweak again. At this point, with both the blue and red filters, everything is "perfect". Now to the green filter. :eek::eek::eek: Holly crap!!! CYAN is the only color to disappear. GREEN will pretty much blend in if you crank it all the way, but then it becomes neon. Blue will turn black, but only turned down all the way, which obviously isn't right and the rest are off, too. Not even RED looks black-black. For the time being, I gave up on the green filter and started playing the test/demo material. It looked pretty good, so I applied these settings to my DirectTV HD DVR input as well. I pop in a Blu-ray(Pirates of the Caribbean 2) and skin tones are way off in most circumstance, major YELLOW push(you'll see why on my settings below) and most scenes are taking on a yellow tint. I flip over to the satellite input and it's the same thing. I dial yellow back on the satellite input and it looks a little better, but still far from right.
Settings:
NATURAL
COLOR TEMP: HIGH
BRIGHTNESS: 30
CONTRAST:28
COLOR:44
TINT:37
PERFECT COLOR/PERFECT TINT
M:46/57
R:28/33
Y:44/31
G:32/31
C:31/31
B:30/31

So, I try again with COLOR TEMP: LOW. And for the record, if LOW is anywhere even remotely close to 6500K on my set, I'm going straight to the eye doctor. I'm a cameraman and I have two professional HD monitors I use in the field, so I know what a proper picture should look like ;). Once again, I was able to get everything "perfect" with the BLUE and RED filters, but with the GREEN filter, nothing except CYAN would line up. This time around, skin tones look much better, but WHITES are "dirty" and too warm and the overall picture, especially on the satellite is too warm and looks "dirty". I toggle back and forth with HIGH and LOW color temp settings and going back to HIGH improves the overall look and brings whites closer back to white, but then skin tones go to hell again at times. Again, the demo material on the disk looks pretty good, but when playing movies and satellite, it doesn't.

Settings:
NATURAL
COLOR TEMP: LOW
BRIGHTNESS: 30
CONTRAST: 28
COLOR:28
TINT:27

PERFECT COLOR/PERFECT TINT
M:43/16
R:39/31
Y:37/31
G:31/31
C:31/31
B:31/31

I know that these sets are way off out-of-the-box and need professional calibration, but I'm hoping to get a good picture to hold me over till I can get a calibrator to adjust it. Any thoughts or ideas about how I may be able to dial the color in a little closer without getting into the service menu(I don't have any of the proper instuments or hardware). It really bothers me that i can get the colors to line-up under the BLUE and RED filters but under GREEN it's sooo off.

Also, does anyone know the proper codes and keys/key sequences to use to adjust geometry/keystone and over/underscan?

Thanks...

So, I try again with COLOR TEMP: LOW. And for the record, if LOW is anywhere even remotely close to 6500K on my set, I'm going straight to the eye doctor. I'm a cameraman and I have two professional HD monitors I use in the field, so I know what a proper picture should look like ;). Once again, I was able to get everything "perfect" with the BLUE and RED filters, but with the GREEN filter, nothing except CYAN would line up. This time around, skin tones look much better, but WHITES are "dirty" and too warm and the overall picture, especially on the satellite is too warm and looks "dirty". I toggle back and forth with HIGH and LOW color temp settings and going back to HIGH improves the overall look and brings whites closer back to white, but then skin tones go to hell again at times. Again, the demo material on the disk looks pretty good, but when playing movies and satellite, it doesn't.Filters are for setting color decoding controls only. They have nothing to do with setting the gray scale.

Use the Green filter to set the brightness of green and the hue of yellow. Use the Red filter to set the brightness of red and the hue of magenta. Use the Blue filter to set the brightness of blue and the hue of cyan. The remaining adjustments: gamma, grayscale, hue of primaries, brightness of secondaries, and saturation of all colors requires calibration equipment and expertise.

Thanks Tom. I figured that I was probably stuck without getting into the service menu to make "real" adjustments, which I don't have the equipment to do properly.

I have a little over 50 hours on my set now. How long should I wait until I have it calibrated? I've seen posts saying anywhere from 100 hours, to some saying at least 200 hours...

Thanks Tom. I figured that I was probably stuck without getting into the service menu to make "real" adjustments, which I don't have the equipment to do properly.

I have a little over 50 hours on my set now. How long should I wait until I have it calibrated? I've seen posts saying anywhere from 100 hours, to some saying at least 200 hours...75-100 is what I usually recommend.

OK, please help me with this.

All the H (hue as we're told) settings start at 0 (zero). You cannot move this to less than zero (at least on my 65736) but you can increase the number. As such, doesn't this mean that that hue can only be corrected in one direction? You can increase the number (which should shift the color in one direction, say green towards yellow), but you can't decrease the number--which would shift the color in the opposite direction, say green towards blue.

Doesn't really make sense to me.

sdickins, It may not be a problem for you. My calibration resulted in all 6 H(hue) values increasing from zero.

The past weekend I was able to calibrate my WD-65736 with CalMan and I can tell you the results compared to ColorHCFR are much more accurate. I am also happy to report that the freezing problems we were having with ColorHCFR are non-existent in CalMan, which dramatically reduced calibration time. The program is also very user friendly and recommends what to adjust, which takes most of the guesswork out of calibrating. One thing that really surprised me was how different the readings were between the two programs. The readings were so different that I actually reset my TV to the factory settings and started from scratch with CalMan. After testing the settings recommended by each program I think CalMan looks much more natural and shadow detail could not be better. I hadn't noticed it before, but blues seemed to be over exaggerated and colors seemed a little "muddy" when viewing my set with the settings I came up with when calibrating with ColorHCFR after viewing with my CalMan settings.

I'll be updating my the first post of this thread with my CalMan settings and will be removing my ColorHCFR settings since I do not think they are accurate now. Yes, they did make my set look much better compared to the out of the box settings, but after calibrating with CalMan I now know that my set is as close to perfect as I can get it. I knew the results were pretty dramatic when my wife even commented on how good the picture looked over the weekend! I highly recommend this program to anyone, and if you do go the CalMan route I'd be glad to help if you run into any problems calibrating your new Mitsubishi.

ksbarnz, I’m glad to see you posted your CalMan observations in the Display Calibration area. Hopefully one of the experts will reply.
I’m surprised that there is a significant difference. It’s hard to imagine the results being better than the HCFR results. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a TV look any better than mine looks today.
I guess I’ll have to give CalMan a try. Did you use the trial version?

ksbarnz, I’m glad to see you posted your CalMan observations in the Display Calibration area. Hopefully one of the experts will reply.
I’m surprised that there is a significant difference. It’s hard to imagine the results being better than the HCFR results. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a TV look any better than mine looks today.
I guess I’ll have to give CalMan a try. Did you use the trial version?

No, it was the full version. The trial version only lets you try the program with a simulated meter. The way I look at it is that it is still cheaper than having someone come out and calibrate and you can calibrate anytime you need to. Plus with CalMAN you know that you are getting correct readings. They are an OEM reseller of X-Rite, (i1), which allows them access to x-rite's advanced development tools, which could explain the difference between the two programs. I was really surprised also with the difference between the programs. I thought my set looked good with ColorHCFR but after using CalMAN I could see the difference.

No, it was the full version. The trial version only lets you try the program with a simulated meter. The way I look at it is that it is still cheaper than having someone come out and calibrate and you can calibrate anytime you need to. Plus with CalMAN you know that you are getting correct readings. They are an OEM reseller of X-Rite, (i1), which allows them access to x-rite's advanced development tools, which could explain the difference between the two programs. I was really surprised also with the difference between the programs. I thought my set looked good with ColorHCFR but after using CalMAN I could see the difference.

Was it easier to use? Did it give user friendly names, or were there the ultrachromafish levels that are mentioned through here?

So how much is this I1 (eye one) piece of kit?

With the sw costing 199, it's only 100 out of having someone come out and do it for you.

How often are you planning on using the unit?

This kind of puts a dent in the shine of doing it yourself.

Seggers

Was it easier to use? Did it give user friendly names, or were there the ultrachromafish levels that are mentioned through here?

So how much is this I1 (eye one) piece of kit?

With the sw costing 199, it's only 100 out of having someone come out and do it for you.

How often are you planning on using the unit?

This kind of puts a dent in the shine of doing it yourself.

Seggers

The i1 is around 140. You might be able to find it for cheaper by searching online. With a bulb based DLP you are supposed to calibrate as the bulb life lengthens due to dimming and you are also supposed to calibrate after a bulb change. At least from what I have read. I also plan on calibrating my bedroom TV as well so from my stand point the software more than pays for itself.

CalMAN is very easy to use. It actually has a basic, intermediate, and advanced mode to select from when calibrating. The basic and intermediate give you step by step instructions on what to adjust, (hue, color, etc.).

sounds good. can I just purchase calman and activate the trial with a code or do they send you a activation on a usb drive.

I would like to get this but I am going to have to pull a miracle to convince the wife why i have to spend more money when i just bought the eye one.

With CalMAN v3.11 Standard we email you a license key that unlocks support for the Display2, DisplayLT, Spyder2, Spyder3, DTP-94 and ColorPro II. Once you have purchased we usually get the license keys out within a few hours.

cool. any real reason why calman would give me a more accurate calibration besides the fact that you are an official x rite sanctioned product?

I was looking at the CalMan website. Is the Eyeone i1 supported in the standard? I see the "pro" is supported but the $140 from amazon is not the pro package but the "lite" package.

I was looking at the CalMan website. Is the Eyeone i1 supported in the standard? I see the "pro" is supported but the $140 from amazon is not the pro package but the "lite" package.

yes, it is supported. It is listed as x-rite Display2 LT on their meter support page. That is the same meter I used.

ksbarnz, I just completed an initial scan with CalMan. The results are very close to my HCFR results. My HCFR calibration was completed in LCD mode, which may make a difference. I haven’t played with CalMan enough to know everything it has to offer.
I like having CalMan but it’s not worth the cost IMO if your on a budget. I think HCFR is more than adequate for most of us.

ksbarnz, I just completed an initial scan with CalMan. The results are very close to my HCFR results. My HCFR calibration was completed in LCD mode, which may make a difference. I haven’t played with CalMan enough to know everything it has to offer.
I like having CalMan but it’s not worth the cost IMO if your on a budget. I think HCFR is more than adequate for most of us.

I guess LCD mode might make the difference. I had very different readings between the two programs. Especially red high end, it was about 30 clicks different between the two. I could not get colorHCFR to work in LCD mode, it would freeze up constantly. I could not even take a full grayscale reading without it freezing up. What do you have, 736, 835? I wonder if there might be a difference between the two? Doesn't the 835 have smooth 120hz (something along those lines)?

I have a 73835. Running HCFR wasn’t without pain especially with secondary colors. The only problem I have is getting blue to move to the corner. It’s well inside the triangle. All other colors are fine.

The only problem I have is getting blue to move to the corner. It’s well inside the triangle. All other colors are fine.This is a design flaw in the Mits color wheel. Blue is undersaturated and shifted towards green. You can always use a CMS to desaturate colors, but you cannot fix an undersaturated color. It is a physical limitation of the display.

This is a design flaw in the Mits color wheel. Blue is undersaturated and shifted towards green. You can always use a CMS to desaturate colors, but you cannot fix an undersaturated color. It is a physical limitation of the display.

Tom,

Does thos mean that the 65835 or the 73835 are bad buys ???

This is a design flaw in the Mits color wheel. Blue is undersaturated and shifted towards green. You can always use a CMS to desaturate colors, but you cannot fix an undersaturated color. It is a physical limitation of the display.

Thanks Tom

jae3cpa, I welcome Tom’s comment on this but my guess is that you would never know blue was off without a colorimeter. The amount that it is off is very very slight. It’s just that it can’t meet absolute perfection. The picture after calibration is excellent.

This is a design flaw in the Mits color wheel. Blue is undersaturated and shifted towards green. You can always use a CMS to desaturate colors, but you cannot fix an undersaturated color. It is a physical limitation of the display.

I'm curious how you arrived at this conclusion.

my 65835 has this blue desaturation as well so It seems all the 08 mitsubishi dlp have this issue. I think that is pretty strong evidence of a design flaw.

that said the visual effect is really not that bad in my opinion and if you are willing to live with some degree of hue inaccuracy you can increase saturation.

So has anyone else gotten HCFR to work in LCD mode on a '735 or '736 set???

jae3cpa, I welcome Tom’s comment on this but my guess is that you would never know blue was off without a colorimeter. The amount that it is off is very very slight. It’s just that it can’t meet absolute perfection. The picture after calibration is excellent.

Vandu,

which Tv do you own...is it the 65835. After Calibratio is your set very bright, are the colors vivid. Ive been told that calibrating a set, esp a DLP tends to make them darker ! Is that correct ?

jae3cpa, I have a 73835. After calibration my set is bright and the colors are very vivid. The guidelines I’ve read are ftL should be between 30 and 40 for a DLP rear projection TV. I’m at 35 ftL. The calibrated colors are more vivid than I would have set them to by eye. I also have a 3 year old Samsung 61” DLP and a 2 year old 50” Panasonic plasma. The Mitsubishi has the best picture by far.

brightness is a determined by recommended Ftl. rear projections should be set to 30 ftl for viewing in darkness and 40 ftl for daylight. on my wd-65835 30 ftl. is about a brightness adjustment at 31 give or take a small amount.

I'm curious how you arrived at this conclusion.Not sure which "conclusion" you refer to.

Tom,

Does thos mean that the 65835 or the 73835 are bad buys ???No, not at all. It just means that the color won't be perfect even after calibration. Nonetheless, it is very, very good, infinitely better than pre-calibration and much better than what most displays that lack this type of control can offer.

No, not at all. It just means that the color won't be perfect even after calibration. Nonetheless, it is very, very good, infinitely better than pre-calibration and much better than what most displays that lack this type of control can offer

I totally Agree and I will add that I don't think there is a tv out their capable of absolutely perfect color short of a production monitor. There will always be some degree of error in color.

The reflections on the uppper side of letter boxed movies has been driving me crazy so I have been looking into lining the inside of my set with duvetine to limit the internal reflections, which I think might be causing this. Lining your set with duvetine was popular with CRT rear projections but I assume the same theory applies to DLP rear projection.

After doing some research in the calibration forum I found a black velvet fabric that has adhesive on one side that people were using over duvetine.

http://www.mcmaster.com/ (type in 88015K22)

I figured it was worth a shot for 30 bucks to see if it helped black levels/reduced internal reflections. I'll post some pics and thoughts on how it goes late this weekend.

Lining your set with duvetine was popular with CRT rear projections but I assume the same theory applies to DLP rear projection.

After doing some research in the calibration forum I found a black velvet fabric that has adhesive on one side that people were using over duvetine.

http://www.mcmaster.com/ (type in 88015K22)

I figured it was worth a shot for 30 bucks to see if it helped black levels/reduced internal reflections. I'll post some pics and thoughts on how it goes late this weekend.

I'll be very interested to see your results. I did this with my RP-CRT five years ago, and have wondered if my 73736 could benefit. My biggest concern has been the fact that my CRT has a much "roomier" cabinet, so if the duvetine draped a little, it was still safe from getting in the light path. From the outside, looks like they have the cabinet of these new DLPs cut down to the bare minimum size. I would think that in some places, the fabric would have to stay right up against the cabinet wall to keep from blocking the light path. I have some left over duvetine from my CRT (unless I've since purged it in a clean-up), but the self-sticky velvet may be helpful, at least in some places. My biggest concern would be having the adhesive fail over time.

I'll be vary curious to hear about what you find inside the cabinet;not only about how "black" is it already, but also what kind of adjsutments are avalable optically. I would be very interested to see if there are any physical adjustments to the positioning and focusing of the light engine that could possibly reduce the picture size (to reduce overscan), and also reposition it and maybe even do some rudementry geomety adjustments. I haven't had the time/ambition/guts to pull mine apart yet. :)

I'll be very interested to see your results. I did this with my RP-CRT five years ago, and have wondered if my 73736 could benefit. My biggest concern has been the fact that my CRT has a much "roomier" cabinet, so if the duvetine draped a little, it was still safe from getting in the light path. From the outside, looks like they have the cabinet of these new DLPs cut down to the bare minimum size. I would think that in some places, the fabric would have to stay right up against the cabinet wall to keep from blocking the light path. I have some left over duvetine from my CRT (unless I've since purged it in a clean-up), but the self-sticky velvet may be helpful, at least in some places. My biggest concern would be having the adhesive fail over time.

I'll be vary curious to hear about what you find inside the cabinet;not only about how "black" is it already, but also what kind of adjsutments are avalable optically. I would be very interested to see if there are any physical adjustments to the positioning and focusing of the light engine that could possibly reduce the picture size (to reduce overscan), and also reposition it and maybe even do some rudementry geomety adjustments. I haven't had the time/ambition/guts to pull mine apart yet. :)

I agree with the fabric dropping, that is why I went the self adhesive route instead of duvetine. I've used to have a 65732 (2006 Model) and I have taken the screen off of it a few times. It wasn't hard at all. There are a row of philips head screws around the backside of the screen (about 20 of them. After you remove these you just have to unattach the speaker connectors. I imagine this model to be close to the same. I'll take some pictures this weekend to show how it goes.

My thinking was that if there was even a little overscan from the optical lense to the mirror reflecting off of the walls it could be causing the faint objects on the black stip of letterbox movies. And honestly I think that black levels were better on my 732, so hopefully this will have a little effect on fixing those as well. I think the only physical geometry adjustments, basing this off of my experience of my 732, that you can make are the tilt and angle of the light engine. Which you adjust by taking the back access cover off of the TV and adjusting the lower set screws of the block.

I think the only physical geometry adjustments, basing this off of my experience of my 732, that you can make are the tilt and angle of the light engine. Which you adjust by taking the back access cover off of the TV and adjusting the lower set screws of the block.
That's dissapointing, I do have more overscan than I would like, and my image seems to be a little too much to the left. Thanks for the info... I'll look forward to your pics!

Yes, I'm running my sources through an Onkyo 604 and do not have a problem with the settings not saving. That is stange that it is happening. Is it only happening to those of you with Denon's or other receivers as well?

You can add me to the list! I have a Denon receiver (5308CI) and cannot get the settings to save when turning off the tv. If you find out something let me know. THANKS!

I have taken the screen off of it a few times. It wasn't hard at all

I wanted to do that on my wd-65732 as well but never had the balls. so when you detached the front of the set did the screen stay mounted in the front or did you have to remove the screen itself from the from of the tv. what I am trying to say is did you have to physically handle the screen itself. can you elaborate on this little.

I want to know because I two am interested in trying this felt you mentioned and want to know as much about what I may need to deal with so I can be ready for it and also make an informed choice about weather to proceed or not.

You can add me to the list! I have a Denon receiver (5308CI) and cannot get the settings to save when turning off the tv. If you find out something let me know. THANKS!

Do you have the hdmi input named AVR (whatever corresponds to that, I'm not in front of my TV)? I think I read somewhere that renaming the input fixes the problem. You might try renaming your hdmi input to hdmi 1 2 or 3, based on where it is connected.

I've tried that and it doesn't work.

The reflections on the uppper side of letter boxed movies has been driving me crazy so I have been looking into lining the inside of my set with duvetine to limit the internal reflections, which I think might be causing this. Lining your set with duvetine was popular with CRT rear projections but I assume the same theory applies to DLP rear projection.

After doing some research in the calibration forum I found a black velvet fabric that has adhesive on one side that people were using over duvetine.

http://www.mcmaster.com/ (type in 88015K22)

I figured it was worth a shot for 30 bucks to see if it helped black levels/reduced internal reflections. I'll post some pics and thoughts on how it goes late this weekend.

Just finished lining the inside of my 736 with black velvet to reduce internal reflections, mainly the reflections I see on the upper black area of letter boxed movies. Well I can say that the inside of my TV is solid black and there is no way that there are any reflections now. However it did nothing to solve the problem. It is still as present as it was before. So I am guessing that this might be something that is internal to the light engine. I'll post some pics tomorrow.

so did it improve your black level at all?

so did it improve your black level at all?

Maybe a little if any. It's hard to say if I would recommend it for anyone. I really didn't get a chance to test it out too much because it was so late at night after I finished. I'll check it out tonight and will let you know.

Here are a few pics of before and after installing the black velvet inside the TV. Also a pic of my setup. The whole process of removing the screen was really easy. There are 12-15 philips screws on the back of the screen and 3 on the front access panel that hold it on. The inside of the set is black but still reflective, as you can see from the before pics. After installing the velvet it is BLACK on the inside now. I'm just not sure what is causing the upper reflections on letter boxed movies since they are still there after this.

Would you mind taking some pictures of the set in action ksbarnz?

Would you mind taking some pictures of the set in action ksbarnz?

sure thing, I'll take some tonight. However, I'm not sure if digital pictures will show how the TV actually looks in person.

I have ordered the i1 LT from Amazon after it dropped to $119. I just bought the HD DVD/Combo DVD of Video Essentials but when I placed it in the HD DVD player it comes up with tons of calibration pictures but no audio to guide you thru on what to do.

So does the i1LT have detailed instructions on how to calibrate a RPTV like my Mits 65736 TV? And what else do I need besides the i1 LT and the Digital Video Essentials HDDVD/DVD?

Thanks.

I have ordered the i1 LT from Amazon after it dropped to $119. I just bought the HD DVD/Combo DVD of Video Essentials but when I placed it in the HD DVD player it comes up with tons of calibration pictures but no audio to guide you thru on what to do.

So does the i1LT have detailed instructions on how to calibrate a RPTV like my Mits 65736 TV? And what else do I need besides the i1 LT and the Digital Video Essentials HDDVD/DVD?

Thanks.

Check my first post of the forum. It should give you everything you need to calibrate your TV with an i1 and CalMAN. I used the AVSHD709 disk to calibrate my set. Also you can follow this link to calibrate your TV with an i1 and ColorHCFR.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

yes, you are going to need avshd709 to perform an accurate calibration because video essentials doesn't have window patterns for color adjustment. It only has them for greyscale adjustments.

Would you mind taking some pictures of the set in action ksbarnz

you realy should just stop looking for screenshots of these TVs it doesn't look anything like they actually look and as a result you are just deceiving yourself to believe you can get any kind of fare judgment from them.

you realy should just stop looking for screenshots of these TVs it doesn't look anything like they actually look and as a result you are just deceiving yourself to believe you can get any kind of fare judgment from them.

Which in itself is fair comment. However, he has said that it's an hour drive to a BB to even look at these things.

So some idea froma photo, however bad, may be better than no idea at all.

Seggers

It's not that it is an hour drive to see them....it's an hour drive to my nearest BB to see the 735 series, which I have. The nearest BB with the 835 series is 3 hours away which is too far away. I'm just trying to get a comparison between the 835 and the 735 which noone has really done indepth and since it is 3 hours away for me to see them and that is impossible for me to do, then I can only base my judgments on pictures.

But many don't feel there's any difference in PQ between the two when compared in person. At best, a picture is going to be a better judge of the quality of the owner's camera and photography skills rather than his TV. But if it's pictures you want, there are several in the Mits Diamond/735/736 thread.

Thank you Darin, noone has ever stated (as far as I remember reading) that they thought the PQ was equal when seeing both in person. Most people could not compare them in person and I wasn't aware what/if any the differences in PQ would be.

the only real difference without calibration would be perhaps a higher perceived contrast ratio do to the 835's auto iris.

But many don't feel there's any difference in PQ between the two when compared in person. At best, a picture is going to be a better judge of the quality of the owner's camera and photography skills rather than his TV. But if it's pictures you want, there are several in the Mits Diamond/735/736 thread.

I agree with Cid. After calibration all of these sets will look very similar. The main difference between a 735 and 736 is the DeepField Imager, which I leave off. The 835 has the auto iris and the ability to adjust the primary and secondary colors within the regular menu. However, both the 735 and 736 colors can be fully adjusted through the service menu.

That being said, are you thinking about trading your 735 in for an 835? Have you fully calibrated your TV? If not, it makes a world of difference.

Check my first post of the forum. It should give you everything you need to calibrate your TV with an i1 and CalMAN. I used the AVSHD709 disk to calibrate my set. Also you can follow this link to calibrate your TV with an i1 and ColorHCFR.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457


I read this entire article yesterday and am still a little confused on the startup process. As I understand it one needs these things to do a calibration:

1) A unit like the i1 LT which I have on the way

2) A software solution like CALMAN or the ColorHCFR (would ike to know how to justify the $179 of CALMAN vs Free with ColorHCFR)

3) A DVD Disk with different screens to calibrate (I guess this is the Digital Video Essentials HDDVD/DVD or the AVSHD709 right???)

But I still have a few questions:

1) Are the three items above all I need?

2) Do the 3 items above work together easily?

3) Am I going into the service menu to first setup the greyscale before I do regular menu settings like Contrast/Brightness/Tint/Color/Sharpness, etc ???

4) When in the process do you actually do the above regular menu settings? I could not gleam this from the article you linked. And when do you set all the perfect color settings on the Mits 65736 TV's regular menu?

5) Do you have your TV on Normal, Bright, Brilliant, etc setting for calibration?

Thanks

I read this entire article yesterday and am still a little confused on the startup process. As I understand it one needs these things to do a calibration:

1) A unit like the i1 LT which I have on the way

2) A software solution like CALMAN or the ColorHCFR (would ike to know how to justify the $179 of CALMAN vs Free with ColorHCFR)

3) A DVD Disk with different screens to calibrate (I guess this is the Digital Video Essentials HDDVD/DVD or the AVSHD709 right???)

But I still have a few questions:

1) Are the three items above all I need?

2) Do the 3 items above work together easily?

3) Am I going into the service menu to first setup the greyscale before I do regular menu settings like Contrast/Brightness/Tint/Color/Sharpness, etc ???

4) When in the process do you actually do the above regular menu settings? I could not gleam this from the article you linked. And when do you set all the perfect color settings on the Mits 65736 TV's regular menu?

5) Do you have your TV on Normal, Bright, Brilliant, etc setting for calibration?

Thanks

Yes, that is all you need. I would go with the AFSHD709 disk over the DVE disk. It is free so you will not be out any additional money. I originally used ColorHCFR to calibrate my 736 but the program would constantly freeze so I ended up going with CalMAN. Read my first post on this thread and it will give you an idea of what to adjust on your TV as well as the settings that I used.

I don't have either of the Mits sets currently. Just looking to upgrade and I want as big as they come and a great PQ.

Yes, that is all you need. I would go with the AFSHD709 disk over the DVE disk. It is free so you will not be out any additional money. I originally used ColorHCFR to calibrate my 736 but the program would constantly freeze so I ended up going with CalMAN. Read my first post on this thread and it will give you an idea of what to adjust on your TV as well as the settings that I used.

If one buys the Calman a $180 then combines the i1 LT at $120-150 then you are already over the price of calibrating once and you must still noodle out how to do this yourself. I am leaning towards doing this so I can calibrate all 3 of my HDTV's and can repeat them later. But it isn't a dirt cheap option unless you do this on several TV's over time.

If I get Calman does it walk me thru what Service Menu settings to change on all the variables inside the service menu more so than the ColorHCFR? I read the entire article but still not sure on how easy it is to setup the individual settings inside the service menu. It sounded like ColorHCFR still might require some extra knowledge about how to set things up. Is Calman doing some of this calculating that ColorHCFR is not automatically doing for you? My i1 LT should be in any day now. I have the DVE HDDVD and can download the freebie test disk. So final deal is deciding on CalMan at &179 vs the freebie program.

If one buys the Calman a $180 then combines the i1 LT at $120-150 then you are already over the price of calibrating once and you must still noodle out how to do this yourself. I am leaning towards doing this so I can calibrate all 3 of my HDTV's and can repeat them later. But it isn't a dirt cheap option unless you do this on several TV's over time.

If I get Calman does it walk me thru what Service Menu settings to change on all the variables inside the service menu more so than the ColorHCFR? I read the entire article but still not sure on how easy it is to setup the individual settings inside the service menu. It sounded like ColorHCFR still might require some extra knowledge about how to set things up. Is Calman doing some of this calculating that ColorHCFR is not automatically doing for you? My i1 LT should be in any day now. I have the DVE HDDVD and can download the freebie test disk. So final deal is deciding on CalMan at &179 vs the freebie program.

No, CalMAN does not tell you what specific code to adjust in the service menu based on TV model. It does tell you what to adjust, the high end of the grayscale for example. All of the corresponding service menu codes you need to adjust are on my first post of this forum.

ColorHCFR constantly froze when I used it. Switching to CalMAN fixed the problem If I would have used CalMAN it first it would have saved me a to tremendous amount of time and frustration. Some say that the readings between the two programs should be the same, however they were quite different for me and I thought the settings I came up with on CalMAN look much better. If you are planning on calibrating a few TV's then I think it is definetely worth the price.

well I think the difference between calman and color hcfr is probably attributed to the fact that you where using crt mode with color hcfr and not necessarily that there is anything inherently wrong with color hcfr that would give you different results.

I was going to invest in calman but the cost for what you get is just to great and thy just come across a little to greedy to me. things such as limiting use to aether a calorimeter or spectoaradiometer depending on what version you get and the fact that they don't offer free updates is just to much to swallow on top of the price when there is fully functional free software out there. the only significant benefit calman has that i see is it holds your hand and acts as a tutorial where as colorhcfr assumes you already know what you are doing but with tutorials online its really a non issue. just my two cents.

if only spectacal would realize they would make significantly more money if they would only lower the price.

TNVOL, One reason I purchased a Mitsubishi DLP is because the color controls are accessible in the service menu. They are also accessible in the Samsung DLP that I own. They are not accessible in my Panasonic plasma or two LCDs that I also have. Most TVs only provide color and tint controls in the user menu. These controls will not typically give you the control you need for an accurate calibration.

Hello everyone, I just stumbled across this forum; I bought a Mitsubishi 65736 a couple months ago and everything has been working fine, the colors are nice and everything after I went through and popped in star wars... I used the thx patterns and everything looked a lot better, then I found this thread and used the basic settings (without going into the service menu) to tone it down. These settings are amazing for my satellite (dish network, over hdmi, output at 1080i) and now that I see the difference just these settings can make I went ahead and ordered my i1 display LT :) hopefully the HCFR software doesn't freeze up on me...

Does anyone know if they updated the HCFR software to fix this bug, or is it just something I will have to deal with?

Hello everyone, I just stumbled across this forum; I bought a Mitsubishi 65736 a couple months ago and everything has been working fine, the colors are nice and everything after I went through and popped in star wars... I used the thx patterns and everything looked a lot better, then I found this thread and used the basic settings (without going into the service menu) to tone it down. These settings are amazing for my satellite (dish network, over hdmi, output at 1080i) and now that I see the difference just these settings can make I went ahead and ordered my i1 display LT :) hopefully the HCFR software doesn't freeze up on me...

Does anyone know if they updated the HCFR software to fix this bug, or is it just something I will have to deal with?

I tried asking if there was an update to the software that fixed this problem over in the Display Calibration forum but did not get a response. I think there is a new beta of the software out but not made available to everyone. I also do not know if the update fixes the freezing issues. You might try posting in the forums for the makers of ColorHCFR. However you will need to brush up on your French. I think the website is something along the lines of:

www.homecinema-fr.com. (Maybe)

Regardless, you should be able to see a pretty big difference after calibration. Maybe you will have better luck than I did with my 736 and ColorHCFR.

I had seen your post over in the forums... unfortunately I am only fluent in German and English... Has anyone else heard anything?

nope. just for some clarification. color hcfr doesn't totally lock up, its just when in the constant update mode it can take some long pauses.

nope. just for some clarification. color hcfr doesn't totally lock up, its just when in the constant update mode it can take some long pauses.

For you maybe yes. However on my set it would lock up (completely) in addition to the 2 minutes pauses. It would also lock up and not take a complete reading when taking a complete grayscale or color reading (not in constant reading mode).

This doesn't sound good... what operating systems are you guys using? vista/xp? also what service packs vista sp1/xp sp1/2/3?

This doesn't sound good... what operating systems are you guys using? vista/xp? also what service packs vista sp1/xp sp1/2/3?

Vista SP1 for me. Who knows your experience might be different than mine was. The good thing is that it is a free program so you will not be out any $ if it does not work for you.

Vista SP1 for me. Who knows your experience might be different than mine was. The good thing is that it is a free program so you will not be out any $ if it does not work for you.

lol actually I will, if this doesn't work I will have to buy calMAN and be out however much that costs... if I don't get that then I will be out 140 for the colorimeter...

I have two boxes one running xp sp3 and the other vista sp1 so I will try both when I get the i1

I have used the software on both xp and vista without issue other than the long pauses in the constant reading mode.

either way we will see... I will calibrate with both to see if I can get different responses! supposed to be here the 30th so I will follow up with my results :)

Check my first post of the forum. It should give you everything you need to calibrate your TV with an i1 and CalMAN. I used the AVSHD709 disk to calibrate my set. Also you can follow this link to calibrate your TV with an i1 and ColorHCFR.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

I have tried many times to click on the download for AVSHD709 on your first post and the Link seems to be bad. I only get jibbersih with a Mac using Safari and a Windows machine using Windows XP.

I was able to download the ColorHCFR to only a Windows machine. Does CalMan work well with a Mac?

I have tried many times to click on the download for AVSHD709 on your first post and the Link seems to be bad. I only get jibbersih with a Mac using Safari and a Windows machine using Windows XP.

I was able to download the ColorHCFR to only a Windows machine. Does CalMan work well with a Mac?

Not sure what's going on there then, as I used the link in the message that you quoted and managed to get to the page.

BTW, what happens if you straight type that URL into the browser?

I run XP Pro SP3 and IE7

Seggers

Maybe this one might be a little better:

"http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight="

TNVOL, I tried the link for AVSHD709 in the first post and got a “Forbidden” screen. Try this one
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

After calibrating my WD-65736 I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on calibrating the new Mitsubishi's. This way we could have a central place to share our ideas and settings. I initially used ColorHCFR to calibrate my TV but after experiencing freezing problems and inaccurate results I ended up using CalMAN to calibrate my TV.

Here is a little breakdown on what I used to calibrate my 736. First set the TV to Low color temp and then take a grayscale and primary and secondary colors reading and save it as your before settings. You can then refer back to this when you are finished to see how much your TV has improved after calibration.

To access the service menu, on the remote press Menu and then 2,4,5,7. This will bring up the service menu. The video button scrolls through each setting in the service menu. UP and Down changes each value, and pressing Enter (or OK) not sure what it is exactly on the remote since I do not have it in front of me, saves the changes.


Then I set my contrast and brightness in accordance with the "Calibration for Dummies Link" (see below). Next I calibrated my grayscale. G(RGB)L the first few settings, adjust the upper end of the grayscale, while BM(RGB) adjusts the low end. Once you get your grayscale correct, calibrate your primary colors, and then secondary colors.

Each color has the follwing in the service menu, with what I guess each could mean:

G(RGBCMY)L (Gain)
S(RGBCMY)L (Saturation)
H(RGBCMY)L (Hue)

Here is what you are going to try and calibrate each color to if you are using a high definition calibration disk:

Rec. 709 (High Definition)
--------------x-------y-------Y
Red----------0.640---0.330---0.2127
Green--------0.300---0.600---0.7151
Blue----------0.150---0.060---0.0722
Yellow--------0.419---0.505---0.9278
Cyan---------0.225---0.329---0.7873
Magenta------0.321---0.154---0.2849
White--------0.3127--0.329---1.0

Use these to dial in your colors. Once you have your colors correct, test your grayscale again and make adjustments if needed. Everything effects everything, if that makes any sense, so make sure you recheck your grayscale after making changes to your colors and vice-versa.

One more tip, make changes in the service menu and then exit out to take the readings. You will see why, the colors and brightness differ when you are in the service menu. Those of you with 835's might have an easier time than I did since you have perfect tint, which I don't, only perfect color. So I had to adjust the tint/hue, of each color in the service menu. I was able to get my primary and secondary colors except for Blue and Red close to perfect. Which after a many tries I believe is a limitation of this TV.

In case you don't already have it here are a couple of links, the first is the calibration for dummies guide, and the second is the calibration disk I used, AVS HD 709. The third is for CalMAN, the calibration software I used.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

http://avshd709.com/

http://www.spectracal.com/

Here are my current settings. These might give you a good starting point, if not you can always reset your service menu back to defaults by pressing 0 while in the service menu, and selecting restore white balance, first option I think.

Perfect Color
41
35
33
43
37
24

Color 31
Tint 25
Contrast 11
Brightness 30
Color Temp Low
Video Noise off
Deep Field Imager Off
Sharpness 35

ggl 1020
grl 994
gbl 1045
grl 128
srl 128
hrl 25
ggl 128
sgl 117
hgl 31
gbl 128
sbl 128
hbl 0
gcl 106
scl 86
hcl 15
gml 128
sml 123
hml 99
gyl 128
syl 107
hyl 65
grwl 128
ggwl 110
gbwl 110
bmg 0
bmr 16
bmb 65528
ofg 2
ofr 65530
ofb 5
cmg 150
cmr 150
cmb 100
idl 36
dbk 1


Good luck and be patient. It is very tedious, make small changes and take readings. It is worth it though once you have it calibrated. Let me know if you have any questions or problems. I've attached a pdf of my calibration report.

Can you explain what these are:
Im guessing white level of Primaries?? :
GRWL
GGWL
GBWL

obviously RGB but what do they affect?? :
OFG
OFR
OFB

RGB controls of something I guess. :
CMG
CMR
CMB

you altered IDL I think, so Im wondering what it is. :
IDL

Possibly if you know what these are I would like to know even though I assume you haven't touched them:
HVPOS
CCA
DBK

Also another Question, I calibrated Greyscale and I find the contrast seems quite low. Im assuming it is because I chose 40fL as my base point. the guide says go between 30-40 If I choose say 35ftL would that brighten my image somewhat? which ftL did you choose to go by?

Thanks so much for posting your full settings I will post mine when I finish setting my colors.

grwl gbwl ggwl

I cant remember for sure but this may be lie a contrast setting but for each primary color independantly. its not needed for a calibration.

ofr ofb ofg this is you offset setting and is good for adjusting the low level of the greyscale

ofg ofr ofb cant remember but its not needed for calibration

idl. don't adjust this. i believe its your color wheel timings. not sure buts not needed for calibration

hvpos is horizontal and vertical screen positioning
cca turn on or off the color management system. keep it on.

dbk. not sure but its not needed for calibration.

When I was doing Greyscale I was adjusting BMR BMG BMB is this the low setting of greyscale as well?? which one is the lowest greyscale one? O_RGB or BM_RGB?

Could I use the GRWL GBWL and GGWL to actually affect gamma?

When I was doing Greyscale I was adjusting BMR BMG BMB is this the low setting of greyscale as well?? which one is the lowest greyscale one? O_RGB or BM_RGB?

Could I use the GRWL GBWL and GGWL to actually affect gamma?

I used BM(RGB) to adjust the low end of the grayscale on my 736. However it took a combination of BM(RGB) and OF(RGB) to dial in the low/mid end. Making changes to OF to dial in the mid/low will throw off what you made on BM so it will take a little bit of tweaking to get it right.

As far as G(RGB)WL, I did not adjust these on my set. I'm not a 100 percent sure what they do but I agree with Cid with them maybe having to do with individual color contrast. I messed with these but did not see too much change when I adjust them.

I feel like my TV's image is now dull. I guess the only comparison I can think of is its like I printed a photo on normal paper instead of photo paper.

I think this has to do with the contrast and or ftL measurement. with RPTV what would be a good number to shoot for? the guide says 30-40 but that is a lare range. I went with 40 and Im thinking of trying lower possibly. I don't want to increase using contrast because I assume this would throw my greyscale off.

I feel like my TV's image is now dull. I guess the only comparison I can think of is its like I printed a photo on normal paper instead of photo paper.

I think this has to do with the contrast and or ftL measurement. with RPTV what would be a good number to shoot for? the guide says 30-40 but that is a lare range. I went with 40 and Im thinking of trying lower possibly. I don't want to increase using contrast because I assume this would throw my greyscale off.

Some people think that a calibrated set does look dull at first, but give it time. It is definetely a big difference from the "blind you" out of the box settings.

I have my 736 set around 40 ftl. What model set do you have? What are you using as your calibration software? ColorHCFR? If so, you might try posting your calibration files. I'd be glad to take a look at them and offer any advice if I can.

Were any of you able to measure the black levels on the xx835 sets? Does the auto iris aid in producing a extremely low level on a full black field? and how about all black field with an 80 IRE square in the middle test image? Ohh , Does this set pass below black and above white?

Thanx Chris ,

Im coming from a JVC 1080P , DILA set HD-70FH96 which is horrible in black level and shadow detail and doesnt pass below black

Some people think that a calibrated set does look dull at first, but give it time. It is definetely a big difference from the "blind you" out of the box settings.

I have my 736 set around 40 ftl. What model set do you have? What are you using as your calibration software? ColorHCFR? If so, you might try posting your calibration files. I'd be glad to take a look at them and offer any advice if I can.

I figured I may get used too it kind of like when you drop the sharpness setting. I did not have an uncalibrated set though. I have done plenty of calibrations on this set using DVE and test patterns on my PS3 when I bought the set. So the difference Im seeing is from DVE blue ray calibration to ColorHCFR calibration.

This was my very first attempt at doing this and I know there is a ton I can improve. All I really adjusted was 30IRE and 80IRE using low and hi end of greyscale. Since the guide said quit here and watch some movies I did without adjusting my colors. Being pretty unhappy I wrote down my settings and applied your full settings to my TV just to see the difference. While My set is not a 736, it is a 735 that can explain why some of those odd SM settings I changed to match yours, you did not touch. Would you let me know which ones on that long SM post you actually played with? would like to know which ones I should be using.

before any i1 calibration (http://homepage.mac.com/youngmk/.Public/greyscale before_first calibration.chc)

After greyscale calibration (http://homepage.mac.com/youngmk/.Public/greyscale after calibration.chc)

Settings used to reach the after:
Contrast:29
Brightness:33
GGL:1024
GRL:1058
GBL:1073
BMG:0
BMR:7
BMB:65527

I figured I may get used too it kind of like when you drop the sharpness setting.

How far down did you drop the sharpness? I actually raised mine a few clicks from the default of 31. Anything lower than 31 caused the picture to look blurry. The only settings I adjusted for grayscale were G(RGB)L, OF(RGB), and BM(RGB). As far as color, I used a combination of both perfect color, tint(regular from menu), and each colors controls in the service menu:

G(RGBCMY)L
S(RGBCMY)L
H(RGBCMY)L

to dial each in. I did raise CM(RGB) to the max setting of 150. This seems to be an individual contrast control for each color. I had to do this to bring red inline. I had to raise all three equally to balance them out.

Just checked your calibration files. Have you tried calibrating your primary and secondary colors yet? I didn't see any readings for these. If you haven't, this could explain why your set seems to look dull.

How far down did you drop the sharpness? I actually raised mine a few clicks from the default of 31. Anything lower than 31 caused the picture to look blurry. The only settings I adjusted for grayscale were G(RGB)L, OF(RGB), and BM(RGB). As far as color, I used a combination of both perfect color, tint(regular from menu), and each colors controls in the service menu:

G(RGBCMY)L
S(RGBCMY)L
H(RGBCMY)L

to dial each in. I did raise CM(RGB) to the max setting of 150. This seems to be an individual contrast control for each color. I had to do this to bring red inline. I had to raise all three equally to balance them out.

Just checked your calibration files. Have you tried calibrating your primary and secondary colors yet? I didn't see any readings for these. If you haven't, this could explain why your set seems to look dull.

I raised sharpness to 35.
I did not calibrate color yet, but will do so soon. I think my dullness has something to do with the ftL I chose but I'll continue to play with it.

I raised sharpness to 35.
I did not calibrate color yet, but will do so soon. I think my dullness has something to do with the ftL I chose but I'll continue to play with it.

I wouldn't worry too much right now with the ftl output if you are in the 35-40 range. I'd give it a shot calibrating your colors. Mine were WAY off and it made a BIG difference calibrating them. It might fix the dullness problem you are referring to.

I'll give it a shot. I might redo all calibration at 35ftL. This TV is used at daytime and nightime so I guess I need to try and average out my contrast.

Did you have any luck affecting your Gamma at all with any of the SM controls?

I also got very frustrated and sick of trying because the ColorHCFR software froze up often. Im using LCD as instructed, is that what I should continue to do?

I'll give it a shot. I might redo all calibration at 35ftL. This TV is used at daytime and nightime so I guess I need to try and average out my contrast.

Did you have any luck affecting your Gamma at all with any of the SM controls?

I also got very frustrated and sick of trying because the ColorHCFR software froze up often. Im using LCD as instructed, is that what I should continue to do?

I had the same problem with the freezing. It seems to freeze when taking a continuous reading. People say to stop the reading before switching test windows on you calibration disk. After you switch the window, then start taking the reading again.

I ended up going with CalMAN to calibrate my set after all of my frustration with ColorHCFR.

As far as gamma, mine fell in line after I finished Calibration. I do not think there is a specific gamma control in the service menu.

as far as gamma is concerned, if you cant be with the one you love ,love the one your with.

I set my ftl. to 30 as it seems to be the most popular setting based on reading many tv reviews that included calibration data. this is also the most accurate setting for viewing in controlled lighting which is what the director intended.

I use ofr ofg ofb to adjust the low end of the greyscale but use what works best for your individual situation. don't pay to much mind to 10 ire and below as this is almost certainly going to be an area your meter will not read correctly. even 20 ire will be somewhat inaccurate in most cases. you want to focus mostly on getting the crucial 30 to 100 ire levels correct.

to cure your flat picture you are going to want to work on your luminance/ gamma levels.
the way to do this is basically to set contrast and brightness correctly. get your contrast to about 30 ftl. while having your very first gamma point as close to but not even a hair above the reference 2.2 gamma point this will take some back and forth to get correct. follow the directions in the calibration guide mentioned in the first post in this thread to get you close.

see here for an example but if you have a 735 or 736 you should be able to get a much more flat gamma. I cant because of my auto iris.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=121577&d=1223513400

as far as gamma is concerned, if you cant be with the one you love ,love the one your with.

I set my ftl. to 30 as it seems to be the most popular setting based on reading many tv reviews that included calibration data. this is also the most accurate setting for viewing in controlled lighting which is what the director intended.

I use ofr ofg ofb to adjust the low end of the greyscale but use what works best for your individual situation. don't pay to much mind to 10 ire and below as this is almost certainly going to be an area your meter will not read correctly. even 20 ire will be somewhat inaccurate in most cases. you want to focus mostly on getting the crucial 30 to 100 ire levels correct.

to cure your flat picture you are going to want to work on your luminance/ gamma levels.
the way to do this is basically to set contrast and brightness correctly. get your contrast to about 30 ftl. while having your very first gamma point as close to but not even a hair above the reference 2.2 gamma point this will take some back and forth to get correct. follow the directions in the calibration guide mentioned in the first post in this thread to get you close.

see here for an example but if you have a 735 or 736 you should be able to get a much more flat gamma. I cant because of my auto iris.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=121577&d=1223513400

Which back n forths did you adjust to see gamma differences?? The guide doesn't mention much if anything on how to adjust gamma besides buying something.

Did you set your contrast and brightness to around 30ftL then greyscale, then looked at your gamma curve and adjust the same greyscale controls to level that out cid?

You'll want to use your Brightness and Contrast controls to get the gamma where you want it.

As cid67 mentioned, set your contrast so your 100 IRE reading is at your desired ftL. Then switch over to the 10 IRE and adjust your brightness until the 10 IRE reading comes in at your desired gamma level.

Changing the brightness will often change the 100 IRE ftL value, so this is what he was referring to by going back and forth. Re-adjust your 100 IRE value to the desired ftL, and then go back to 10 IRE and adjust the brightness again. You may have to go back and forth like this a couple times until you get as close to your desired values as possible.

Terrific.
So I guess instead of trying to achieve a 30-40 ftL range It would be better to try and aim at a certain gamma.

cid refered to picking your gamma point, would it be best to shoot for 2.2 gamma at say 30IRE on the gamma graph? I know 10-20IRE is not 100% accurate

you cant manipulate your gamma. forget about gamma exept for your veryfirst gamma point. that you want to get as close to 2.2 as possible. the rest will simply fall where it falls. there's nothing really you can do without sacrificing other aspects of picture. like I said, get your target ftl at about 30 with the contrast setting and your lowest gamma point at about 2.2 with your brightness setting. that's all you can do. just dont go above 2.2 on the scale at the low end ore you will crush your blacks and that's worse than being slightly below 2.2

Alrighty here is my latest.
True I have only been doing greyscale so far. I was about to start on colors but realized I need to burn a different disk to do that.

Let me know what you think, I believe Im starting to understand this a little better
My Latest (http://homepage.mac.com/youngmk/.Public/after greyscale.chc)

Im surprised at how low you guys run your contrast. I had my 833 professionally calibrated by a nationally very well known and respected calibrator on these and other boards and my contrast is set above 50. If i lower it to around 30 or so as ive seen here the picture loses its punch. Not saying my calibrator is 100% right but there seems to be such a wide variance in contrast setting more than anything else.

Mike

Im surprised at how low you guys run your contrast. I had my 833 professionally calibrated by a nationally very well known and respected calibrator on these and other boards and my contrast is set above 50. If i lower it to around 30 or so as ive seen here the picture loses its punch. Not saying my calibrator is 100% right but there seems to be such a wide variance in contrast setting more than anything else.

Mike

Call me lazy, or "unprofessional" if you want, but I have all my settings at 31 for everything. My 65735 is in a fairly dark room, so I don't have a lot of sunlight to deal with, and I can adjust the other lights as needed.

Im surprised at how low you guys run your contrast. I had my 833 professionally calibrated by a nationally very well known and respected calibrator on these and other boards and my contrast is set above 50. If i lower it to around 30 or so as ive seen here the picture loses its punch. Not saying my calibrator is 100% right but there seems to be such a wide variance in contrast setting more than anything else.

Mike

My contrast used to be a lot higher when I calibrated using test patterns by eye. But when calibrating greyscale with the meter I pushed down the contrast control to get my gamma in line.
Since your set is different than mine, maybe yours was calibrated with dark detailer on? was your set adjusted with SM ISF calibration?
My brightness/contrast right now is 31,31

Of course brightness and contrast relate, maybe your brightness is very low? Im not sure.

Im surprised at how low you guys run your contrast. I had my 833 professionally calibrated by a nationally very well known and respected calibrator on these and other boards and my contrast is set above 50. If i lower it to around 30 or so as ive seen here the picture loses its punch. Not saying my calibrator is 100% right but there seems to be such a wide variance in contrast setting more than anything else.

well right now my contrast is set to about 41. with a bulb based set your contrast will have to be adjusted once in a while to compensate for the aging of the bulb. your calibrator may have also been targeting a different ftl for peak output. someone with lots of experience calibrating flat panels but not rear projection my not realize that the target ftl should be lower for a correct image.

Since your set is different than mine, maybe yours was calibrated with dark detailer on



are you referring to the deep field imager? that would effect contrast and should be turned off in a proper calibration. the dark detailer is the 835's auto iris and cant be turned off.

well right now my contrast is set to about 41. with a bulb based set your contrast will have to be adjusted once in a while to compensate for the aging of the bulb. your calibrator may have also been targeting a different ftl for peak output. someone with lots of experience calibrating flat panels but not rear projection my not realize that the target ftl should be lower for a correct image.



are you referring to the deep field imager? that would effect contrast and should be turned off in a proper calibration. the dark detailer is the 835's auto iris and cant be turned off.

Deep field imager is off. My brightness is set at 31 which seems in line.

Mike

with my latest HCFR file is there anything more I can do or leave it as is?? cid is my gamma about as good as can be?? I have 6 HCFR files with gamma readings from different contrast/brightness controls. I figured at 80IRE when it starts going haywire that was acceptable.

Im not sure how accurate I can get my greyscaleRGB at 10 and 20 ire. Is the meter flawed there so I shouldn't worry about it?

I burned the disk for measuring primary and secondary colors. It doesn't look good thats for sure. My set has only perfect color and of course those SM controls. Did you guys adjust tint and color at the start of color calibration or just adjust using perfect color/tint and SM controls?

I must say though my set isn't as dull as it was before my latest calibration. Im quite happy so far but measuring my colors is weighing on my mind for sure.

with my latest HCFR file is there anything more I can do or leave it as is?? cid is my gamma about as good as can be?? I have 6 HCFR files with gamma readings from different contrast/brightness controls. I figured at 80IRE when it starts going haywire that was acceptable.

Im not sure how accurate I can get my greyscaleRGB at 10 and 20 ire. Is the meter flawed there so I shouldn't worry about it?

I burned the disk for measuring primary and secondary colors. It doesn't look good thats for sure. My set has only perfect color and of course those SM controls. Did you guys adjust tint and color at the start of color calibration or just adjust using perfect color/tint and SM controls?

I must say though my set isn't as dull as it was before my latest calibration. Im quite happy so far but measuring my colors is weighing on my mind for sure.

You latest grayscale calibration looked really good. You can ignore the low ire readings, anything below 30. You would need a much more expensive colorimeter to get proper readings at low ire.

It does seem that most everyone here has had the same experience with their colors being way off before calibration. I only have perfect color on my set also so I had to do the majority of the color calibration in the service menu. You can use perfect color to adjust the luminance of each color, but you will need the service menu controls to adjust each colors xy values. Get ready because it will definitely take a little bit of time, and frustration to get your colors in line. You might want to start with setting your luminance, Y, for each color with perfect color and then try to adjust each color's xy position in the service menu. Either way you start you will end up going back and forth between the service menu and perfect color many times to get each color calibrated.

I hope they can fix the bug in HCFR... it kept freezing on me so I couldn't do color calibrations with ease :( My first reading, the greyscale was actually almost right on! Up to about 30 was dead on, and 90 and 100 were dead on... I fixed the rest and then the damn program kept freezing up on me! finally got it all done and I am very happy with the results, everything except my xbox 360 has an amazing difference... The xbox (playing call of duty 4) seems more realistic and lifelike, but is almost too dark. Does anyone have a list of what all the service menu items do? I would like to know exactly what everyone does :)

I hope they can fix the bug in HCFR... it kept freezing on me so I couldn't do color calibrations with ease :( My first reading, the greyscale was actually almost right on! Up to about 30 was dead on, and 90 and 100 were dead on... I fixed the rest and then the damn program kept freezing up on me! finally got it all done and I am very happy with the results, everything except my xbox 360 has an amazing difference... The xbox (playing call of duty 4) seems more realistic and lifelike, but is almost too dark. Does anyone have a list of what all the service menu items do? I would like to know exactly what everyone does :)

I noticed when gaming on the PS3 and Xbox everything is a lot darker. Its a give and take when you calibrate for movie watching. If the game doesn't have brightness adjustment and I need it brighter I just swap the TV to brilliant an make everything look awful but at least I can see people.

HCFR freeing annoys me too. I had less freezing when running VMware instead of Parallels on my Mac so Im sure the actual computer has a little fault in the process but overall its the software. It seems to freeze more often on higher IRE's then lower ones to me.

As for which SM items do what read this thread almost all of them have been explained.

color hcfr doesn't freeze on me except in the constant reading mode. If I take a single reading it never has any issue.

I'm needing some suggestions on my setup to do calibration.
I have a NAD receiver with compostite in/out, a NAD DVD player with composite in/out, a dishnetwork reciever with both HDMI and composite and a WD-65835. Is my best option to eliminate HDMI from dish to tv and just use composite for all sources. I don't see any other way to calibrate HDMI input on the WD-65835 short of buying a new DVD player.

I believe the TV saves calibration for each input. So use the receiver for audio distribution. Use the TV as the video switcher. Composite is not the best video solution.

Video:
NAD DVD to TV (composite or better yet component)
Dish to TV (HDMI)

Audio:
NAD DVD to NAD Rcvr (using TOSLink or Coax)
Dish to NAD Rcvr (using TOSLink or Coax)

I meant component instead of composite on these sources. I am using receiver for audio distribution and have been running HDMI from satellite to TV and component from DVD to TV. But if I calibrate my TV with this setup I will only be calibrating the picture on the component input source from DVD and there is no way to calibrate the HDMI source from satellite right? So wouldn't it be better to be using the receiver to distribute video also and have only one component input from the receiver to the TV? Because the test patterns I'm going to calibrate from are playing on a DVD and it doesn't have a HDMI out.

Has anyone finalized a consensus list of settings for the WD-73835?

I have the Blu-Ray calibration disk but would like to see what the experts:) have come up with before I poke around in there and make things worse.

Thanks

Has anyone finalized a consensus list of settings for the WD-73835?

I have the Blu-Ray calibration disk but would like to see what the experts:) have come up with before I poke around in there and make things worse.

Thanks

I'm no expert, but I plan to run my BD config disc whilst the unit burns in (first 100+ hours) then I plan to have it ISF calibrated.

Mine arrives - hopefully - Tuesday.

Seggers

I meant component instead of composite on these sources. I am using receiver for audio distribution and have been running HDMI from satellite to TV and component from DVD to TV. But if I calibrate my TV with this setup I will only be calibrating the picture on the component input source from DVD and there is no way to calibrate the HDMI source from satellite right? So wouldn't it be better to be using the receiver to distribute video also and have only one component input from the receiver to the TV? Because the test patterns I'm going to calibrate from are playing on a DVD and it doesn't have a HDMI out.

Have been reading in more detail some of the calibration threads; in particular the one by Tom Hoffman in the Display Calibration forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536. Look at post #328 & #330. It talks about different color space standards for SD & HD. So I believe the issue is not component vs HDMI but SD DVD versus Dish HD. Also look at posts #25, 27,37,44, and 77 in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1054936