What can we expect at CEDIA and/or in the next year? Anything that is going to be a huge step forward? Last year we went from 720p to 1080/24p at a more affordable price, so what is next? Any new features or better features we can expect to see soon?

More affordable price. Better picture quality (blacks, true 1080p/24 support). CIH 2.35:1 support.

I'm looking at...
- Mitsubishi HC5500 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1040634): Just out and got good reviews from PJC (http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hc5500_review.htm) and Art at PJR (http://www.projectorreviews.com/mitsubishi/hc5500/index.php)
- Sony VPL-HW10 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1001482): Coming shortly; similar to VW40, but at lower price

There may be others in the $2K or so range.

I think that the next Sanyo will be brighter, and that 1080p units generally will be made brighter, so as to better fill 120" screens, maybe even with a little ambient light.

I'd really like to see what's going to replace the Epson 720.

IMO, the ~$1000 point is where the action is at. Even if 1080p's get closer to US$2000, I'd take a 720p LCD (no DLP for me- rainbows) for $999 or less (MIR or not) with comparable or best-in-class blacks/contrast/color any day of the week.

An Epson 720 with D7-class inorganic panels would be a done deal for me...

It's color, contrast and blacks for me- let the 1080p-weenies chase the pixel count genie.. ;)

I'd really like to see what's going to replace the Epson 720.

IMO, the ~$1000 point is where the action is at. Even if 1080p's get closer to US$2000, I'd take a 720p LCD (no DLP for me- rainbows) for $999 or less (MIR or not) with comparable or best-in-class blacks/contrast/color any day of the week.

An Epson 720 with D7-class inorganic panels would be a done deal for me...

It's color, contrast and blacks for me- let the 1080p-weenies chase the pixel count genie.. ;)


Exactly!! I want to see 720p projectors with inorganic panels and optics. I am perfectly happy with 720p but am not happy with burned out polarizers. I was hoping that we would see the same inorganic panels that have been used for 1080p. I am also hoping that someone comes up with some type of sealed optics for LCD projectors to avoid dust blobs.

let the 1080p-weenies chase the pixel count genie.. ;)

Are you just trying to start a flame war or what? As has been espoused in the countless 720 versus 1080 threads, there are pros and cons to both formats. 1080 is very relevant depending on the viewer's seating distance.

Exactly!! I want to see 720p projectors with inorganic panels and optics. I am perfectly happy with 720p but am not happy with burned out polarizers. I was hoping that we would see the same inorganic panels that have been used for 1080p. I am also hoping that someone comes up with some type of sealed optics for LCD projectors to avoid dust blobs.

I am quite impressed with the dust control on my current Epson HC400, and had no issues with dust control on the Panasonic AE700 I had before it. Don't know if current Panasonics like the AX200 retain the excellent dust control of the Ae700...

Dust control on the PLV60 I had before the AE700 was not so good, and even worse on the Mitsubishi XGA LCD I had before that in 1999...

In addition to best-in-class blacks/contrast/color/ I forgot the all important lumens, both calibrated and torch modes ;)

Are you just trying to start a flame war or what? As has been espoused in the countless 720 versus 1080 threads, there are pros and cons to both formats. 1080 is very relevant depending on the viewer's seating distance.

...who me? :D No flame intended, that's what the wink was for :)

I was just expressing frustration that the 1080p's appear to get the "goodies" like inorganic panels, when some of us are fine with 720p but want a bump in the image basics (blacks, contrast, color and lumens), assuming current or even better price advantage.

I suppose that some day only 1080p projectors will be made, and that's fine. Would I appreciate an Epson 1080UB for my basement theater thrown on my 8 foot wide Dalite High Power? Sure I would. At the seating distance in my first row of seats, I would even perceive and appreciate the increased pixel count. If the price gap were less than $500 or so, I'd probably just go with the 1080UB.

But now that I need to outfit two theaters with projectors (primary + vacation home), having two Epson 720's (or whatever replaces it) for $1000 each vs one 1080UB (or whatever replaces it this fall) for over $2500 is a no brainer for my situation.

...this coming from a guy who paid $4000 for a Sanyo PLV60 1366x768 LCD in March 2002 ;)

LEDs to replace bulbs would be nice. How about each manufacture using the same lighting systems for all of their projectors (rather than a different one for each of their projectors). This should reduce costs for everyone.

LEDs to replace bulbs would be nice. How about each manufacture using the same lighting systems for all of their projectors (rather than a different one for each of their projectors). This should reduce costs for everyone.

..but reduce profits for the manufacturers ;)

They LOVE to sell you a cheap razor, and then absolutely burn you on the blades :(

But the LED bulb issue has been a recurring story around these parts for ages- kinda like the Sasquatch/Yeti or the Loch Ness Monster- everyone kinda believes, there's lots of stories, but no definitive proof of existance :D


...but the existance of LEDs in rear projection sets is a glimmer of hope for front projection...

Seems most of discussion is expectations of simple enhancements of what is already in their homes.

When you ask what is NEW that is usually always the leading edge stuff that first appears in commercial theaters which at that time is TERRIBLY expensive and proprietary but most often very, very exciting. Remember how expensive ANY projectors for home use were just a few years ago???

Well, what is being installed in theaters all over is 3D projection systems. Movie makers and movie theaters want to take a next step that can't be replicated in Home Theater any time soon (hope that ain't true).

Googling around looks like these first and proprietary 3D systems have usage/license fees of like $25k per year PLUS cost of the theater retrofit including new screens and equipment. Ticket prices are projected to be up $4 or more per person.

So what is coming that is NEW is 3D projection at theaters which I hope will be affordable for home retrofits a couple of years after that.

Hopefully, some very smart code writers will make software working with powerful enough and fast enough processors that will take ANY digital video file and create the dual image with the polarization effect so that existing projectors and TVs can turn any movie into 3D if viewers have the right lenses in their viewing glasses.

High end display companies like Barco are already producing expensive "stereo" or dual projection systems for 3D video presentations so maybe before I'm dead and gone this NEW next step will be in my viewing room.

Front projectors are losing their exclusivity on big screen experience. 72+" rear projection TVs, some with excellent reviews, are diving under street prices of 1080P front projectors. Yes, there are tradeoffs between the two technologies but look at the bigger picture. Front 1080p projectors need to be a lot lower in price to remain compelling. I'd say they need to street around $1,000 or it's bulb out.

Front projectors are losing their exclusivity on big screen experience. 72+" rear projection TVs, some with excellent reviews, are diving under street prices of 1080P front projectors. Yes, there are tradeoffs between the two technologies but look at the bigger picture. Front 1080p projectors need to be a lot lower in price to remain compelling. I'd say they need to street around $1,000 or it's bulb out.
Are any of these rear projection TVs that are now under street prices for 1080p projectors also 1080p? Or are you comparing 720p rear projectors to 1080p front projectors?

Maybe it will change with new releases, but so far I have not seen any rear projector that was not a step down in image quality from LCD flat panel, plasma, and front projection. I also don't want the gigantic box in my home.

There is a new entry level Sanyo Full HD projector:

http://www.big-screen.de/deutsch/image/produktbilder/news/news-2008/plv-z700.jpg

Well, what is being installed in theaters all over is 3D projection systems. Movie makers and movie theaters want to take a next step that can't be replicated in Home Theater any time soon (hope that ain't true).

Googling around looks like these first and proprietary 3D systems have usage/license fees of like $25k per year PLUS cost of the theater retrofit including new screens and equipment. Ticket prices are projected to be up $4 or more per person.
.

Assuming LCD shutter glasses and movies remastered for 3D (the studios would LOVE to sell you the same movies AGAIN ;) ), doing good 3D is actually trivial, assuming an honest 120Hz refresh capability on the projector display device (DLP or LCD/LCOS)- 60Hz for each eye, or less if they plan to do 24fps movies...

There is a new entry level Sanyo Full HD projector:
I see specs on the Sanyo site here:

http://www.sanyo-lcdp.com/english/product/plvz700/z700.html

but don't seen anything about price yet. I wonder when one of these companies like Sanyo or Panasonic will make their entry level be 1080p and not even release a new 720p home theater projector.

--Darin

..but reduce profits for the manufacturers ;)

They LOVE to sell you a cheap razor, and then absolutely burn you on the blades :(

But the LED bulb issue has been a recurring story around these parts for ages- kinda like the Sasquatch/Yeti or the Loch Ness Monster- everyone kinda believes, there's lots of stories, but no definitive proof of existance :D


...but the existance of LEDs in rear projection sets is a glimmer of hope for front projection...Oh no, in the news this week someone claimed that he found a dead sasquatch in Georgia and is keeping it in his freezer until a big press conference tomorrow in Palo Alto. I saw pictures, it looked like Harry of Harry and the Henderson's in a freezer, holding a 2500 lumen 1080p LCD based on LEDs and a sales receipt for $2K.

He might have got some interest from the press if he just displayed bigfoot in the pic, but the LED projector really damaged his credibility.

Still, I want to believe.

Oh no, in the news this week someone claimed that he found a dead sasquatch in Georgia and is keeping it in his freezer until a big press conference tomorrow in Palo Alto. I saw pictures, it looked like Harry of Harry and the Henderson's in a freezer, holding a 2500 lumen 1080p LCD based on LEDs and a sales receipt for $2K.

He might have got some interest from the press if he just displayed bigfoot in the pic, but the LED projector really damaged his credibility.

Still, I want to believe.

:D

Here's the pic- it's gruesome, but perpetrated by a known hoaxster- I Photoshopped the LED 1080p out of the pic- too unbelievable for most people ;)

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/aug2008/9/2/C06B97E1-F6BF-0CCA-74EBCFC145F9FEDA.jpg

..maybe Big Foot got killed by a Russian sniper.

...oh, the OTHER Georgia :D

I see specs on the Sanyo site here:

http://www.sanyo-lcdp.com/english/product/plvz700/z700.html

but don't seen anything about price yet. I wonder when one of these companies like Sanyo or Panasonic will make their entry level be 1080p and not even release a new 720p home theater projector.

--Darin

IMO, 1080p's will be reserved for above $2K for another release cycle or two, or three, and 720p's will hover around $1K or less, MIR or not.

Front projectors are losing their exclusivity on big screen experience. 72+" rear projection TVs, some with excellent reviews, are diving under street prices of 1080P front projectors. Yes, there are tradeoffs between the two technologies but look at the bigger picture. Front 1080p projectors need to be a lot lower in price to remain compelling. I'd say they need to street around $1,000 or it's bulb out.
my hd pj with 108" image weighs 6 lbs. whats a 72"+ rptv weigh, 150lbs +?
no thanks!

...the real sad part is, if I had put the $4000 into Apple stock in March 2002 instead of the PLV60, I could have earned 15 times my money (worth over $60K), instead of depreciating 80% in two years :(

my hd pj with 108" image weighs 6 lbs. whats a 72"+ rptv weigh, 150lbs +?
no thanks!

Agreed, IMO, RPTV's are dead. Its all about panels and FP's now. If someone wants a picture bigger than they can afford in a panel, they opt for a FP, even if it's a cheap XGA LCD they see at Staples/CC/BB. I'm talking about J6P here- no, avs people wouldn't buy a business grade FP for video, but average joes do.

I see specs on the Sanyo site here:

http://www.sanyo-lcdp.com/english/product/plvz700/z700.html

but don't seen anything about price yet. I wonder when one of these companies like Sanyo or Panasonic will make their entry level be 1080p and not even release a new 720p home theater projector.

--Darin

The $64K question: inorganic panels?

If it's above $2K, I'll prolly stick with the Epson 720 or its replacement.

The $64K question: inorganic panels?

If it's above $2K, I'll prolly stick with the Epson 720 or its replacement.

According to that site, on the specs tab, they use organic panels. Not sure who will want this when inorganic panels are available on competing models.

shinksma

According to that site, on the specs tab, they use organic panels. Not sure who will want this when inorganic panels are available on competing models.

shinksma


...I think I just heard The Price Is Right "you lose" theme :D

That Sanyo looks like a clone of the current Z2000, or a very marginally improved successor. The major complaint on the Z2000 - brightness - doesn't appear to be addressed, as this unit uses the same 165W lamp.

Sanyo has finally designed (or copied actually) new fast iris. I might go for this one instead of Z2000 if price is right and panels are not organic. I hope that the spec page is wrong and it uses D7 panels like Z2000. Wasn't D6 also inorganic? Has Epson designed new "super cheap" organic FullHD panel, does anyone know?

IMO, 1080p's will be reserved for above $2K for another release cycle or two, or three, and 720p's will hover around $1K or less, MIR or not.

You really think it will be two or three more years before 1080p breaks the 2k barrier? Man I hope you're way off. I was hoping one of the new models to be released in the next month came in right at the 2k mark (retail.) If they can be had for about $2500 now, and the price of electronics generally drops 50% every 18 months, it seems like we should be seeing some affordable 1080p projectors pretty soon.

There is a new entry level Sanyo Full HD projector:

http://www.big-screen.de/deutsch/image/produktbilder/news/news-2008/plv-z700.jpg

So what is idfferent bewteen the z2000 and this Z700? How much and when? Maybe the Z2000 will drop in price fast w/o rebate.

A lower priced HD80 platform but with the new RGBCYM color wheel and Ti's brilliant color II. In the first quarter expect the LED DLP and a little sooner Ti's dynamic black put to use.

A lower priced HD80 platform but with the new RGBCYM color wheel and Ti's brilliant color II. In the first quarter expect the LED DLP and a little sooner Ti's dynamic black put to use.

Sweet, how much lower will the price be? :)

I would expect to see some 1080p DLP's at $1999 (MSRP) , street = $ ? . Optoma will probably break the $2K price barrier by the end of the year , Tom probably knows more but cannot say ;)

- Jason

You really think it will be two or three more years before 1080p breaks the 2k barrier? Man I hope you're way off. I was hoping one of the new models to be released in the next month came in right at the 2k mark (retail.) If they can be had for about $2500 now, and the price of electronics generally drops 50% every 18 months, it seems like we should be seeing some affordable 1080p projectors pretty soon.

Yeah, I was a little over-zealous with my 1's, 2's and 3's ;) I really didn't believe the "3".

I just didn't expect an MSRP $2K 1080p LCD this fall- though daGamePimp sez a $2K 1080p DLP mght be a possibility. But I can't do DLP- rainbows. I'd sure like to audition the RGBCYM, though. I wonder if the new wheel colors/config would reduce rainbows/headaches for people affected?

Also, just to let the people who complain about rainbows know, there is a huge difference between a 4x and a 5x wheel. I can see RBE constantly on 4x projectors but hardly on 5x projector. Now, some of these newer models have 6x wheels, and I think ive seen some with 7x and even 8x:eek:. With those speed, RBE is not a problem at all.

I hate to say it but someone has to. I for one don't give a rat's @$$ about brighter projectors. I think we've reached a point where 1100-1600 lumens is more than enough. What they really need to focus on is reliability and black levels.

I am not at all impressed by the projector tech as of late. In the race for lower prices, a lot of the projectors now are built like junk or have compromised specs.

completely agreed. The HD70 and the HC1500 are garbage for the price. I wouldnt pay more then 350$ for an HC1500 or HD70. The DT-500, XV-Z3000, and other later models blow all of the new models out of the watter. Just plain better in every aspect. I hate bright projectors that iluminate the entire room. Thats good for TV watching, but getting into a good video game or getting into a good movie, its best if the screen apears to be "floating". I think 450 lumens if perfect for overal light output on a projector

I hate to say it but someone has to. I for one don't give a rat's @$$ about brighter projectors. I think we've reached a point where 1100-1600 lumens is more than enough. What they really need to focus on is reliability and black levels.

I am not at all impressed by the projector tech as of late. In the race for lower prices, a lot of the projectors now are built like junk or have compromised specs.

Sharp Z9000 I had was at 400 lumens when new which is good but! 900hrs of bulb use and it was at 200 lumens. It's better to start out higher with a better reserve. All these PJ's drop down after smaller amounts of hours than you would like to think, marantz, Sim2, Yamaha all way to dim at say 800 or 900hours. I think you have mistaken the pluses of 1600 lumens at start.

This new one from Optoma I'm getting in a month should have good contast and blacks, it does have a 16 step manual iris. What I want to see in action is the projector with Ti's dynamic black in November.

I, myself, in my hunt for my best 720p PJ last Nov, almost ordered a AX200 after seeing a AX100 (friend owns it). Even without DaPimp's thread back then, I still discovered the VP4001 thread and coincidently, UBid had them brand-new for $1199.

After some hesitation, I pulled the trigger and to this day, I haven't regretted my decision for one second. Funny that now, the VP4001 is pretty much out of stock and when SecondAct does have them, they list it at $1400-$1500!

My point is I agree that the latest may not be the greatest..........(of course, keeping the $$$ factor in mind)

Frag

If this new Optoma comes in under the 2k mark it will be tuff to beat. I got a straight 3000.1 out of the HD80 and over 500ansi this new model may do better. Down the road when dynamic black is added you'll see high Ansi and more like 9000.1 on/off. Things will be getting way better, LEDs will have 500,000.1 CR. :) But won't be available in the budget forum naturally. All this is less than 6months away.

Now, if only Optoma would do something about their ridiculous offset...I may be inclined to try one. I'm afraid I'll have to wait for an LCD with a DLP type picture, or for Sharp to release a 1080p version of the DT-500/510. I need short throw and minimal offset.

DLP with NO offset, a reasonable Zoom lens, 1080P @<2K would get my cash.

I hate to say it but someone has to. I for one don't give a rat's @$$ about brighter projectors. I think we've reached a point where 1100-1600 lumens is more than enough. What they really need to focus on is reliability and black levels.

I am not at all impressed by the projector tech as of late. In the race for lower prices, a lot of the projectors now are built like junk or have compromised specs.

I disagree.

Lumens are still on the top of the Important list.

The problem is bulb aging with current bulb tech- most bulbs in sub $3K projectors lose half their brightness in just 500-800 hours, and lose 20% or more in the first couple hundred or so hours. Bulb aging improvements or a switch to LEDs needs to happen.

Until then, we need extra lumens to compensate for the aging- headroom, if you will.

Add to that the lower lumens when calibrated, and we need 2500-3000 honest bulb lumens just to get 1200 real lumens after calibration and ~500-800 hours of use.

edit: didn't see guitarman's post.

Anything I should keep my eye out on -$1000 projectors?

Yeah, I was a little over-zealous with my 1's, 2's and 3's ;) I really didn't believe the "3".

I just didn't expect an MSRP $2K 1080p LCD this fall- though daGamePimp sez a $2K 1080p DLP mght be a possibility. But I can't do DLP- rainbows. I'd sure like to audition the RGBCYM, though. I wonder if the new wheel colors/config would reduce rainbows/headaches for people affected?

Glad you might have been a bit over-zealous. Wouldn't it follow that if 1080p DLP were available at sub 2k prices we'd also be likely to see 1080p LCD there as well? I'm really hoping this is the season I can upgrade my old AE700. It's been due for a while now, but I've been holding out for 1080p at a reasonable price point.

August is nearly over...nothing has leaked yet? I could swear by this time the past couple of years we already knew about several of the upcoming models. Maybe I'm just impatient this time around as I'm finally ready to pull the trigger on an upgrade!

I hate to say it but someone has to. I for one don't give a rat's @$$ about brighter projectors. I think we've reached a point where 1100-1600 lumens is more than enough. What they really need to focus on is reliability and black levels.

I am not at all impressed by the projector tech as of late. In the race for lower prices, a lot of the projectors now are built like junk or have compromised specs.

I disagree with the lumen statement. I think lumen's are very important for us "large screen" guy's and is one of the main reasons I haven't jumped on 1080 yet. My pj is mounted 20' from a 150" screen. Seeing as it is an AT screen, I'm stuck with 1.0 gain. Even in a dedicated light controlled theater, lumen's still play a huge role, especially as the bulb ages.

All I'm waiting for is Epson's 720 to include inorganic panels, and a freaking VS option. I am still blown away they haven't added this to their arsenal. I'm not a huge Panny fan, (even though I did own an AE900) but will head that direction if no one else comes out with VS this year.

Is there any reason to believe the new Sanyo z700 will be brighter than the z2000?

Dell 1609WX DLP Projector (http://www.projectorcentral.com/pc_gaming_projectors.htm)

http://www.projectorcentral.com/images/articles/Dell-1609-front.jpg

...1280x800, 1900:1
...long-life lamp 200W rated for 3000(standart)/4000(econom) hours of operation with a $199 replacement cost
...2500 lumens and 1457 lumens in low lamp mode
...project a 100" diagonal image from 11' to 12'
...retails for roughly $750

16:10 Dell? Enjoy your HUGE black bars.

Still, that sounds like a good pj. Has long as it can do 1280x720 with no overscan, I'd get it.

This one good for gaming. Dual setup very bright and cost effective for 3D :)

CIH 2.35:1 support.

Could you elaborate on this? Are you implying more VS options or an actual 2.35 native AR?

Does anyone else find it strange that it is 10 days to CEDIA and no new projector announcements have been made?

completely agreed. The HD70 and the HC1500 are garbage for the price. I wouldnt pay more then 350$ for an HC1500 or HD70. The DT-500, XV-Z3000, and other later models blow all of the new models out of the watter. Just plain better in every aspect. I hate bright projectors that iluminate the entire room. Thats good for TV watching, but getting into a good video game or getting into a good movie, its best if the screen apears to be "floating". I think 450 lumens if perfect for overal light output on a projector

HC 1500 is garbage for the money? Utterly stupid remark. That pj has a huge following here for a reason

Does anyone else find it strange that it is 10 days to CEDIA and no new projector announcements have been made?

I do. Unless I'm mistaken, in previous years we would have already seen several threads on new models by now. Seems a bit odd to me.

According to PRNewswire, the PLV-Z700 will retail for $1,995. I have had a PLV-Z2 for about five years and enjoyed it, but I've been lurking for a 1080P replacement. The panels on my Z2 (the polarizer) went after about 30 months, and Sanyo repaired the pj under warranty. I wonder whether the organic panels note on Sanyo's website is correct on this pj. We'll see. See http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-25-2008/0004872514&EDATE= for the PRNewswire release.

According to PRNewswire, the PLV-Z700 will retail for $1,995. I have had a PLV-Z2 for about five years and enjoyed it, but I've been lurking for a 1080P replacement. The panels on my Z2 (the polarizer) went after about 30 months, and Sanyo repaired the pj under warranty. I wonder whether the organic panels note on Sanyo's website is correct on this pj. We'll see. See http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-25-2008/0004872514&EDATE= for the PRNewswire release.

That's what I'm talking about...1080p for an MSRP of $1995, so hopefully it retails for a bit less. Would have liked a bit more than the 1200 lumens, and we still need to hear about the organic/inorganic panels...but it's great to see the sub 2k level being hit.

and we still need to hear about the organic/inorganic panels..

Are Epson still making organic panels? I believe that since D7, all panels are inorganic. If I recall correctly there were no D6 panels at 1080p.

ted

I think you have mistaken the pluses of 1600 lumens at start.


I also think he is severely missing the point that the vast majority of projectors are not even close to 1100, let alone 1600 lumens when calibrated.

Is Sanyo coming out with a new model to replace the Z2000? I'm looking to upgrade my Z4 when the bulb dies. I'm hoping for true 1080p, with slightly higher brightness and contrast. I think it will make a difference from my Z4 which I'm very happy with.

Is Sanyo coming out with a new model to replace the Z2000? I'm looking to upgrade my Z4 when the bulb dies. I'm hoping for true 1080p, with slightly higher brightness and contrast. I think it will make a difference from my Z4 which I'm very happy with.

My bet would be yes. I'm sure both Sanyo and Panasonic will be replacing their Z2000 and AE2000 models. I was hoping we'd have heard about them by now though.

Yeah, I'm chomping at the bit. My theater has been put back together after making some improvements and I really want to grab one. I'm trying like heck to hold off though for a couple reasons. The new models might be enticing enough to jump on, even at the higher initial release prices. If not the current models should see some big rebates to clear out the leftover stock. Either way it's a win win for anyone in the market right now.

Again other than increase in lumens (brightness) and contrast ratio (both of which are never true on according to specs) wha else could be done?

Again other than increase in lumens (brightness) and contrast ratio (both of which are never true on according to specs) wha else could be done?

120Hz refresh rate for 1080p60 3D systems with shutter glasses.

Again other than increase in lumens (brightness) and contrast ratio (both of which are never true on according to specs) wha else could be done?

Better OOB accuracy, 2.35 native aspect ratio or at least VS standard, power zoom and shift standard, sealed light path, should I keep going. :)

I personally would die to see a 2.35 native AR introduced in the under 5k range. I'm in the process of changing my screen to CIH, and would love not to have to shell out the extra money on an anamorphic lens. :D

HC 1500 is garbage for the money? Utterly stupid remark. That pj has a huge following here for a reason

Agreed. I have the Mits 1500 and with a 144" diagonal screen it throws a great picture and I don't have to live in a cave to view it.

This remark is typical of many AVS posters. Get two AVS posters in a room and you'll get three opinions.:D

Oh, and BTW, I'm waiting for the Optoma HD806 (1080p, 2000 lumens!) shipping in September.

My bet would be yes. I'm sure both Sanyo and Panasonic will be replacing their Z2000 and AE2000 models. I was hoping we'd have heard about them by now though.

Yes Panasonic does have an AE3000. I read a post and saw a link for it yesterday.

Yes Panasonic does have an AE3000. I read a post and saw a link for it yesterday.

Do you have the link?

http://www.testfreaks.com/rumours/panasonic-pt-ae3000/

http://www.testfreaks.com/rumours/panasonic-pt-ae3000/

Hmmm, nothing drastic. Hopefully this will mean some big rebates on the 2000. :)

Is there a PLV-Z5 replacement announced because I can't find this projector anywhere.

Do you have the link?

I found this: http://www.aboutprojectors.com/news/2008/08/12/panasonics-holiday-guide-lists-pt-ae3000-projector/

not much detail, but atleast we got MSRP pricing info...

Old

Hmmm, nothing drastic. Hopefully this will mean some big rebates on the 2000. :)

Actually the improvements are more significant than noted on that site. Maybe not revolutionary, but still solid.

Some of the reported specs:

60,000:1 CR
1600 lumens
2.35:1 zoom feature

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=816193

I was considering the Mits MC5500 with an anamorphic lens, but I'll instead get the Panny AE3000. It'll be great to do 2.35:1 w/o any expensive lens.

Actually the improvements are more significant than noted on that site. Maybe not revolutionary, but still solid.

Some of the reported specs:

60,000:1 CR
1600 lumens
2.35:1 zoom feature

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=816193

The 2.35:1 zoom feature is interesting but not that big of a deal as you can do the same thing with any 16:9 projector with the zoom, it's just easier to do. I do like the increase in CR and lumens. The question is how much and how much verses the soon to be discounted AE2000U?

The 2.35:1 zoom feature is interesting but not that big of a deal as you can do the same thing with any 16:9 projector with the zoom, it's just easier to do. I do like the increase in CR and lumens. The question is how much and how much verses the soon to be discounted AE2000U?

That is the question. If the 3000 debuts at 3k, and the 2000 can be had for under 2k (assuming a sizable drop) the 2k may likely be the better value.

While it does appear by that article, that the 3000 should be a nice step in the right direction, I think the 2000 is going to become the best bang for the buck here shortly. I'd love to see improved CR and lumens, but you start approaching diminishing returns on investment very quickly with these already impressive projectors. As soon as someone comes out with a 2.35 native though, sign me up. :)

Ok, I just read this http://www.deltaww.com/press/press_detail.asp?id=230

What do you guys think?

http://www.dlp.com/landing_pages/ifa2008.aspx

Enjoy by LED DLP 3D and Pico projector!

http://www.dlp.com/landing_pages/ifa2008.aspx

Enjoy by LED DLP 3D and Pico projector!

This just cofirms my earlier post right from the horses mouth! :eek: :cool: :D
Although he didn't look like a horse to me at all :p

This just cofirms my earlier post right from the horses mouth! :eek: :cool: :D
Although he didn't look like a horse to me at all :p

When do you think we'll see a sub $3,000 LED DLP projector?

When do you think we'll see a sub $3,000 LED DLP projector?

a little tricky question! ;) but my guess is within one year's time :D

a little tricky question! ;) but my guess is within one year's time :D

Do you know what the MSRP of any of the LED units that are shipping this year are? I think I will buy a cheap 720p this year and wait to REALLY upgrade until the end of next year.

Do you know what the MSRP of any of the LED units that are shipping this year are? I think I will buy a cheap 720p this year and wait to REALLY upgrade until the end of next year.

Nope sorry, but that's a good way to go. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.
One thing is for sure, as soon as those LED based pj's start hitting the market, prices will start snowballing soon enough :eek: :D

PT-AE3000 looks like the one to get. I was thinking about a 2.35:1 screen but didnt want to mess with the trouble or expense . This looks like the way to go - one button press and I can go back and forth between 16x9 and 2.35x1.

Nope sorry, but that's a good way to go. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.
One thing is for sure, as soon as those LED based pj's start hitting the market, prices will start snowballing soon enough :eek: :D

I wonder how much I can get for my IN72, I am going to wait until the bulb goes and get the new one under warranty until I sell it. I can't sell it with a clear conscience until then.

I wonder how much I can get for my IN72, I am going to wait until the bulb goes and get the new one under warranty until I sell it. I can't sell it with a clear conscience until then.

I think you could still get around $400 or so for it. Put another 3-400 and you could get the Mits HC1500, Optoma HD65 or the Sharp DT510.

I hear the Planar PD7060 which is a DC3 720p is going for around 9 bones nowadays :cool:

I think you could still get around $400 or so for it. Put another 3-400 and you could get the Mits HC1500, Optoma HD65 or the Sharp DT510.

I hear the Planar PD7060 which is a DC3 720p is going for around 9 bones nowadays :cool:

If the Planar is still around in a few weeks, I will definitely go that direction. I get an extra paycheck in October, so I think I am going to use the for the Planar and new 5.1 speakers.

Ok, I just read this http://www.deltaww.com/press/press_detail.asp?id=230

What do you guys think?

I think this could be a game changer...depending on the price. Any idea on MSRP?

PT-AE3000 looks like the one to get. I was thinking about a 2.35:1 screen but didnt want to mess with the trouble or expense . This looks like the way to go - one button press and I can go back and forth between 16x9 and 2.35x1.

Do you think its performance will justify a ~50% premium over the AE2000? Hard for me to think it will.

Product page is up for the AE3000

http://panasonic.net/pavc/projector/products/ae3000/

I'm going to purchase a new pj soon but was wondering how long I should wait for after Cedia ends. I realize I could wait forever for the best deal, but generally when do the price shifts start and new products start arriving?

There was a TV ad a year or so ago in which the father asked the little kid "How many Poles (or Italians, etc..) does it take to change a light bulb?" The kid's answer was "Why would you change a light bulb?"

As soon as I changed the bulb on my DLP projector the color wheel started to whine. These new products will change all that. Your new LED DLP projector could last your life time.

DLP will once again be competitive with LCD and LCoS because a one chip DLP solution will always be smaller than a three chip anything else. The pico projectors will soon be included in almost everyone's cell phone. Lap top computers will certainly have a built in pico projector too. Personal digital assistants (PDAs) may start to replace lap tops. They already have enough computing power for most users but the Microsoft Office applications have to be crippled because of screen space. With a pico projector that isn't so.

The main projector market will be the PDA, cell phone, and lap top market. All those mobile projectors will be based on LED/DLPs. The much smaller Home Theater market will likewise come to be LED/DLP oriented. First of all because these machines will benefit from the research and development done for the mass market of portable devices.

The LED based DLP will have no rainbow problems (no color wheel). It will have few sound problems (small fan or no fan). It will have almost no moving parts.

DLP will once again be competitive with LCD and LCoS because a one chip DLP solution will always be smaller than a three chip anything else.

LCoS, DILA, SXRD (reflective LCD) also can be "one chip solution" with RGB LED as light source.
F-LCOS is better (less power consumption and smaller package) than DMD for high resolution compact (pico) projector.

Epson has announced 5 new pj's at IFA.

The new MovieMate (DM2) seems to be the current MovieMate 50 (DM1), but 720p. If this sells at MovieMate 50 current prices, it might well be a hit.

The TW-420 appears to be a re-badged business machine, and their only new 720p offering other than the above mentioned DM2. Even at very low prices I don't think there will be much demand for this in the HT market. Doesn't even have an HDMI port.

3 new 1080p machines. TW3000, TW3800, and TW5000. From the limited specs, the 3800 seems to just be an ISF version of the 3000. If the 3000 replaces the current HC720 at the same price, I think it will be a winner. Especially with the livingroom crowd as it now boasts 2000 'Epson' lumens. The 5000 sounds like it's going to replace the current 1080ub.

http://http://crave.cnet.co.uk/homecinema/0,39029447,49298667,00.htm

There's a thread going on in the spendy forum.

Jonathan

There was a TV ad a year or so ago in which the father asked the little kid "How many Poles (or Italians, etc..) does it take to change a light bulb?" The kid's answer was "Why would you change a light bulb?"

As soon as I changed the bulb on my DLP projector the color wheel started to whine. These new products will change all that. Your new LED DLP projector could last your life time.

DLP will once again be competitive with LCD and LCoS because a one chip DLP solution will always be smaller than a three chip anything else. The pico projectors will soon be included in almost everyone's cell phone. Lap top computers will certainly have a built in pico projector too. Personal digital assistants (PDAs) may start to replace lap tops. They already have enough computing power for most users but the Microsoft Office applications have to be crippled because of screen space. With a pico projector that isn't so.

The main projector market will be the PDA, cell phone, and lap top market. All those mobile projectors will be based on LED/DLPs. The much smaller Home Theater market will likewise come to be LED/DLP oriented. First of all because these machines will benefit from the research and development done for the mass market of portable devices.

The LED based DLP will have no rainbow problems (no color wheel). It will have few sound problems (small fan or no fan). It will have almost no moving parts.

The mechanical micro mirrors on the DLP chip have a finite number of on/off cycles, which eventually leads to dead pixels.

If a single chip DLP uses some form of non-time-aligned color switching/sequential color rendering, then it will rely on the viewer's brain to integrate the color in the time domain to form the perceived spectrum. This could still give people headaches, and if the LEDS have to flash R-G-B in sequence, painting each color for a finite time in varying ratios, there still could be perceived rainbows.

Just speculation on my part, having not seen any tech specs re: the LED DLP.

Here is the working link from Jrwhite's post:

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/homecinema/0,39029447,49298667,00.htm

Over here in Europe Epson's HD projectors have different names, there is a TW2000 which is a 1080p front projector. So now there will be a TW 3000 which will have a 720p resolution?

Here is the working link from Jrwhite's post:

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/homecinema/0,39029447,49298667,00.htm

Over here in Europe Epson's HD projectors have different names, there is a TW2000 which is a 1080p front projector. So now there will be a TW 3000 which will have a 720p resolution?

EH-TW3000 seems to be the same than EH-TW3800 but without IFA calibration options. EH-TW3000 and EH-TW3800 use D7 panels (FullHD) and EH-TW5000 D7' panels (FullHD 120Hz capable) and some other tricks to get quite a higher native contrast ratio. So no, there is not TW3000 that is 720p.

What I'd like to see is a gaming-oriented projector, in the mold of the AX-200, with a low-latency mode, but 1080p. Hopefully Panny will release just such a thing this year.

...and, having just posted that, it looks like the upcoming PT-AE3000 has just that feature.

From here (http://panasonic.net/pavc/projector/products/ae3000/features2.html):


Selectable Frame Response

This function reduces the time from when the video signal is first input until it is projected (referred to as frame delay) to approximately 1/3 that of our previous projectors. The projector can be switched from Normal mode to High-Speed mode. High-Speed mode is recommended for video game use.

...and, having just posted that, it looks like the upcoming PT-AE3000 has just that feature.

From here (http://panasonic.net/pavc/projector/products/ae3000/features2.html):And I was just asking in another thread "what the heck is a 'gaming projector'". Well. Now I know. And the AE3000 is moving into the top spot for my next projector...

The LED based DLP will have no rainbow problems (no color wheel). It will have few sound problems (small fan or no fan). It will have almost no moving parts.

There will be no wheel, but LEDs will sequenced to produce the same effect, only much faster. So instead of a 5 or 6X wheel, the LEDS will sequence in a 12 or 20x effective rate. If they can modulate the LED intensity as opposed to on/off at that speed then it may be possible to have all of the LEDs active simultaneously which will finally kill RBE.

Any news of new inorganic 720p panels from Epson?

The fact that at IFA Epson only announced two new very inexpensive and not very capable 720p macchines, I would think that Epson is not advancing the 720 panels beyond the current D5+.

I haven't read anything for sure one way or the other though.

Jonathan

RGB raises two objections to my little future speculation. He says that the micro mirrors being mechanical will eventually wear out. That is undoubtedly so. I never said a DMD based DLP projector would last for eternity just for your lifetime. I have never heard of a DMD wearing out. Perhaps someone could enlighten me. Is there a thread on worn out micro mirrors?

His other objection was that creating color in the time domain might still cause problems with headaches and tired eyes. I don't think so. The Rainbow Effect is a form of flicker fusion. Humans vary in their flicker threshold. Some will see a light as flickering when most see light as steady. The problem with current one chip DLP projectors is that the mechanical color wheel turns rather slowly.

People can hear up to about 20,000 Hz. There are devices that can emit frequencies well above that - but to the human ear they are irrelevant. Similarly the human eye can't see in the ultraviolet. It is pointless to design products for frequencies above human thresholds. Mature LED technologies will switch well above any human flicker fusion threshold. Raise the frequency and no human will be able to perceive the separate pulses. After all all florescent lights flicker but, unless they are broken, they are seen as steady and continuous.

VSV says that LCoS, DILA, SXRD can also be used in a pico projector. I'm sure he's right but all the product examples I have seen to date have used DMDs. My main point was that pico projectors that run with LEDs outputing to a reflective imaging chip should become the mainstream of the digital projector market because portable devices (phones, PDAs, and laptops) will soon all have them.

If that reflective chip is LCoS rather than DMD - so be it.

There will be no wheel, but LEDs will sequenced to produce the same effect, only much faster. So instead of a 5 or 6X wheel, the LEDS will sequence in a 12 or 20x effective rate. If they can modulate the LED intensity as opposed to on/off at that speed then it may be possible to have all of the LEDs active simultaneously which will finally kill RBE.


I'm very sensitive to the RBE. Every once in a while I'll stroll into BB or Fry's and look at the LED DLP televisions. I can't see the rainbows on these TV's. And I'm talking about all the models that have been out for the last 2 or 3 years. I'm confused why a lot of people think that front projectors will be any different. The 'so fast you can't see RBE because we're using LED's' method has already been proven. Good enough for me, at least.

When LED projectors come out I'm more than confident that everything will be just fine.

Any news from CEDIA.

CEDIA starts on the 5th, so the first news will be coming out late Friday evening. It runs from the 5th to the 7th (Sunday), so you you can expect more detailed info starting next Monday.

CEDIA starts on the 5th, so the first news will be coming out late Friday evening. It runs from the 5th to the 7th (Sunday), so you you can expect more detailed info starting next Monday.

But you can see new led dlp liquid cooled projector now ;)

Chilin Technology Introduces the World’s 1st Lamp Free 1080p Projector with Liquid Cooling Technology at CEDIA EXPO 2008

Most notable, the no shattering, no lamp replacement, HD DLP home theater projector will be demonstrated at CEDIA EXPO 2008 in a private suite located on the 10th Floor, Room # 1014 of the Hilton Garden Inn, 1400 Welton Street, Denver, Colorado. The Chilin suite will be accessible from September 3rd-6th, where Chilin will be showcasing their entire series of DLP based 1080P projectors for existing and future OEM/ODM partners.

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/512093.html

But you can see new led dlp liquid cooled projector now ;)

Chilin Technology Introduces the World’s 1st Lamp Free 1080p Projector with Liquid Cooling Technology at CEDIA EXPO 2008

Most notable, the no shattering, no lamp replacement, HD DLP home theater projector will be demonstrated at CEDIA EXPO 2008 in a private suite located on the 10th Floor, Room # 1014 of the Hilton Garden Inn, 1400 Welton Street, Denver, Colorado. The Chilin suite will be accessible from September 3rd-6th, where Chilin will be showcasing their entire series of DLP based 1080P projectors for existing and future OEM/ODM partners.

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/512093.html

So who's seen it in action?

So who's seen it in action?

existing and future OEM/ODM partners...

P.S. ...and Alan Gouger
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14590927#post14590927

I'm going to purchase a new pj soon but was wondering how long I should wait for after Cedia ends. I realize I could wait forever for the best deal, but generally when do the price shifts start and new products start arriving?

From my observation of the past 4 years, the new September products begin to become available in early Oct at MSRP, in limited quantities. By the end of Nov the availability is good and some competition brings street prices below MSRP, especially for the second-best projector(s). It takes about a month for forums like this to spread the word and affect sales of the new offerings, and street prices start to adjust the demand then, just in time for the holidays.

Some manufacturers are a little later than this, especially Sony. Their new offerings sometimes don't show good drops from MSRP until after the holidays.

As far as rainbows on LED DLP's - if the current Samsung RPTV's are any indication, then no, LED is not rainbow free. I used to own one, and the rainbows are still there.

I can't image the FP will be different, so all of you guys who suffer from this as well, these PJ's will not be the solution to your problem. But I do hope they find another way to implement the LED lighting without producing this effect.

It looks like most of the new projectors are in the above $3,000 range, not a lot in the under $3,000 area. The good news is this will push several of the existing projectors prices down. In a few weeks I would not be surprised to see a 1080UB for under $2,000 ($1,999).

It looks like most of the new projectors are in the above $3,000 range, not a lot in the under $3,000 area. The good news is this will push several of the existing projectors prices down. In a few weeks I would not be surprised to see a 1080UB for under $2,000 ($1,999).

That's what I am hoping for, $2,300 - $300 rebate and free lamp...then I'm in.

That's what I am hoping for, $2,300 - $300 rebate and free lamp...then I'm in.

A 1080UB, W5000, AE2000U or Epson 65000 for less than $2,000 will be a pretty good deal, especially if it is like the 1080UB and comes with an extra bulb.

Some AVS Forum Alliance Members (the links at the top of each AVS page) have been offering the Epson Home Cinema 1080UB with a slightly reduced price (by $100), plus a $300 rebate and a free lamp, for the last week, or so. This brings it into the same price range as the new Mitsubishi HC5500. Unless something earthshaking comes out, it looks like I will get one of these 2 units ($2K is about my limit).

From what has been mentioned from CEDIA, so far, it looks like the new offerings may be only slight, if any, improvements over these 2 PJs, at higher prices. I doubt that the Epson 6100/6500 will be any real improvement over the 1080UB, in terms of quality (hardware, PQ, etc. - just cheaper). From the latest CEDIA info, it's the 6100 that has an MSRP of around $1995.

BTW, there are no inorganic 720 LCD panels, AFIK. It was my understanding (from last year) that Epson decided to consolidate their development resources on the inorganic 1080 panels, only (C2Fine = D7?).

Although, some AVS members have mentioned the existence of organic 1080 panels. I am not aware if that's true or not (and no one, with inside information, has mentioned their existence - just silence :eek:). There may be some organic 1080 LCD panels, which are not made by Epson, but I don't know who would be using them.

what will be the estimated price of the AE3000?

those LED DLP PJ's sure sound interesting. I don't have much problems with RBE. I have the HD70 and I don't see'm alot. So I imagine that 2000$ pj's have almost no visable RBE. But for me the bigest problem of DLP is the low flexibility of placement. Especialy Optoma's high ofsets and low zoom capabilities. While LCD has digital zoom and ofset, I believe.

I'm going to move into another house next month and my room will have a low ceiling. So my HD70's high ofset might be a problem. So I'm looking for a future PJ with no ofset.

I hope Optoma and other DLP pj makers skip the damn ofset in the future.

Will there be LED pj's around 2000$ ya think?

BTW, there are no inorganic 720 LCD panels, AFIK. It was my understanding (from last year) that Epson decided to consolidate their development resources on the inorganic 1080 panels, only (C2Fine = D7?).

Although, some AVS members have mentioned the existence of organic 1080 panels. I am not aware if that's true or not (and no one, with inside information, has mentioned their existence - just silence :eek:). There may be some organic 1080 LCD panels, which are not made by Epson, but I don't know who would be using them.I saw this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14604346#post14604346) from Cine4Home, who certainly seems to know his stuff, and it would explain how the Z700 could have inorganic 1080p LCDs. There are organic D7 and inorganic D7 panels now.
A hint: "C²Fine" means inorganic.

Regards,
EkkehartI'm assuming the "organic D7 panels", if he's right, would mean Epson is making both organic and inorganic 1080 panels?
what will be the estimated price of the AE3000?
...
While LCD has digital zoom and ofset, I believe. I believe the MSRP of the AE3000 is expected to be $3499. It's on their web page as shipping in October, so we'll certainly know more soon.

My horizontal/vertical lens shift and zoom requirements keep me from looking at DLPs, and I'm very much looking forward to the AE3000, as it's at the top of my short list to replace my dying Z3.:)

So where are the announcements on lower end units from Panasonic and Sanyo? I would have expected to hear about the AX300 by now.

peteer01 -- Thanks, I just read Ekkehart's post too. I stand corrected, and now my 1080p PJ search gets more complicated. I definitely want one with the C2Fine, inorganic, panels. It's going to be hard to find one that specifically states which D7 panels it has.

I just looked at the Mitsubishi HC5500 pages and it does have the new D7, C2Fine panels :D ---

New LCD Projector Technology
The HC5500 HD projector is built with an advanced inorganic LCD panel and improved liquid crystal panel cooling efficiency. The result is an LCD panel that not only projects the sharpest images, but is rated to last ten times as long as conventional organic LCD panels.This means that both the HC5500 and the Epson Home Cinema 1080UB are using the same panels. Therefore, they are both on my short list, so far.

The HC5500, HC6500 and the HC7000 use inorganic D6 Panels.

The new Panasonic uses the D7 inorganic D7 panels. I am also sure that the two higher priced Epsons will also use the D7 inorganic panels.

Epson's press release
http://epson.ipressroom.com/pr/epson/CEDIA_Expo/PowerLite_Pro_Cinema_7100_7500UB.aspx

Panasonic info:
http://panasonic.net/pavc/projector/products/ae3000/features1.html

The HC5500, HC6500 and the HC7000 use inorganic D6 Panels.Where did you get that information? AFIK, the inorganic panels are only made in the D7 versions. The D6 panels are more than a year (or 2 years) old and, I believe, were never made in inorganic versions (except maybe as experimental versions at the Epson development facility).

Where did you get that information? AFIK, the inorganic panels are only made in the D7 versions. The D6 panels are more than a year (or 2 years) old and, I believe, were never made in inorganic versions (except maybe as experimental versions at the Epson development facility).

Claus, if memory cells fire in order I recall D6 being the first gen inorganic. I found this on Audioholics:
from http://www.audioholics.com/news/trade-show-coverage/2006-cedia-expo/epson-previews-1080p-lcd-projector
The D6 series, incorporating "Crystal Clear Fine" inorganic alignment layer HTPS technology, are 0.7-inch (diagonal 1.9 cm) panels designed for true-HD-ready (1080p) TV systems and front-projectors for home theater.


Also verbatim from EPSON Europe http://www.epson-europe.com/content/EU/en_GB/news_events/news/details/1080p_3LCD_panel.ilocal.htm

What puzzles me at this point is why there would be an "organic" variant of the 1080P process, is it that much cheaper to produce?

ted

Where did you get that information? AFIK, the inorganic panels are only made in the D7 versions. The D6 panels are more than a year (or 2 years) old and, I believe, were never made in inorganic versions (except maybe as experimental versions at the Epson development facility).
The HC6000 and the HC4900 also had inorganic D6. And at IFA 08 Marketing-Manager Lars Dörholt said that all new Mitsubishi projectors use D6.
By the way there is not much difference between inorganic C2fine D6 and inorganic C2fine D7.


What puzzles me at this point is why there would be an "organic" variant of the 1080P process, is it that much cheaper to produce?
Perhaps yes. For example: The new entry-level Sanyo Z700 uses organic Full HD Panels.

tvted -- I agree. Apparently Epson made organic D7 panels while it was gearing up production of their C2Fine D7s. The C2Fine panels were (at least to start with) more expensive due to their larger fill factor (smaller inter-pixel gaps). What I was not aware of was that they continued to make both types (if I understand Ekkehart's comment correctly). Once Epson got the C2Fine production line of D7s ramped up, it would not seem economical (to me, anyway) to maintain both lines running.

The ad copy people, who don't understand the whole thing, are adding to the confusion -- apparently some still think that anything "organic" must be "good" - :rolleyes:.

The disappointing thing about the 2008 CEDIA is that the manufacturers are adding "bells & whistles" for more money, without really improving on the over all performance of the Epson 1080UB and the, recently released, Mitsubishi HC5500. The exception appears to be the new JVC models - way out of my price class.

It looks like my 1080p PJ will be either the 1080UB or the HC5500 - both of which, currently, are within my price range (with the present rebates & extra goodies -- good through Nov 30 & Oct 30, respectively). I've got a little over a month to make up my mind.

alex83 -- Thank you. I wouldn't expect much difference in the 2 types of 1080 C2Fine panels. However, it is my understanding that the D7s have a higher fill-factor and, therefore, a better contrast ratio. BTW, a lot of Marketing types don't necessarily know (some do, of course) what is really being done by the engineering department (at least in my industry - before I retired).

So where are the announcements on lower end units from Panasonic and Sanyo? I would have expected to hear about the AX300 by now.
Sanyo product links and announcements:
Sanyo PLV-Z60 (http://us.sanyo.com/business/projectors/home_theater/index.cfm?productID=1620)
Sanyo PLV-Z700 (http://us.sanyo.com/business/projectors/home_theater/index.cfm?productID=1619)
Z60 announcement (http://www.cybertheater.com/sanyo-plv-z60-home-theater-projector/)
Z700 announcement (http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/sanyo-introduces-1995-full-hd-1080p-home-theater-projector,515186.shtml)

anyone have any info on the Optoma HD 806 (2000 lumens 1080p) unit?

Sanyo product links and announcements:
Sanyo PLV-Z60 (http://us.sanyo.com/business/projectors/home_theater/index.cfm?productID=1620)
Sanyo PLV-Z700 (http://us.sanyo.com/business/projectors/home_theater/index.cfm?productID=1619)
Z60 announcement (http://www.cybertheater.com/sanyo-plv-z60-home-theater-projector/)
Z700 announcement (http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/sanyo-introduces-1995-full-hd-1080p-home-theater-projector,515186.shtml)

Thanks...not sure how I missed the Z60 info. Doesn't seem like a very competitive unit though. The Z700, however, could be interesting...especially if it retails for a few hundred off it's $1995 MSRP.

tvted
The disappointing thing about the 2008 CEDIA is that the manufacturers are adding "bells & whistles" for more money, without really improving on the over all performance of the Epson 1080UB and the, recently released, Mitsubishi HC5500. The exception appears to be the new JVC models - way out of my price class.

It looks like my 1080p PJ will be either the 1080UB or the HC5500 - both of which, currently, are within my price range (with the present rebates & extra goodies -- good through Nov 30 & Oct 30, respectively). I've got a little over a month to make up my mind.




As far as the improvements, the lack of new panels - across the board, including JVC - is disappointing, but apparently LCD camp is banking on the improvements from polarizers to go ~ 2x in On/Off.

Some early looks from CINE4home seem to support this for AE3K/7500.

We shall SEE if this holds up.

well, Im needing to upgrade from my Z-1. Sounds like I will be going to go with the Z-2000 to live in the hd age. The Z-700 doesnt seem any better outside of a new iris, so I'll wait toward the end of this month to see if the 2000 price lowers at all. But I guess Ill have to buy it before the rebate expires. Thanks for all the CEDIA info.

broadwayblue,

In his Sanyo PLV-Z60 and PLV-Z2000 post, Art posted that quote: " Panasonic, who normally duels it out with Sanyo, on the other hand, is sticking with their PT-AX200U, which they released last fall. " Sadly, it looks like no 300 this year.

Also, here's some D7 info that he posted in his Epson Home Cinema 6500 UB post, quote: " BTW, on the slightly technical side, Epson has been shipping a new version of their D7 LCD panels (the older D7's were used in the Home and Pro Cinema 1080 UB, as well as the Panasonic and other 3LCD projectors). The new version is designed to reduce reflected light inside the optical path, and I take it that this is where a large chunk of the improved contrast is coming from. "

So, there are 2 inorganic D7s (the one in the 1080 UB and this newer one in the 6500)???
www.projectorreviews.com/blog/

Elkhunter -- I read those blogs from Art, too. One advantage of the Epson 6500/7500 and the Panny AE3000 is their "interpolation" schemes - they create an intermediate frame, between two video frames in the source, to create an effective 120Hz (or 48Hz for 1080p/24 movies), thereby doubling the frame rate and reducing motion blur. This seems to be the only real improvement over this years models. Unfortunately, they did this for a higher price.

The Mits HC5500, released a month or so ago, also uses the older D7 inorganic panels (based on their description web page). It currently has a $200 rebate, good through October 30. The HC5500 appears to be replacing the HC4900, and is their new low end 1080p PJ for the next year. The HC5500 has a lot of the features of the HC6000, and has actually improved on some of them. Mitsubishi announced a higher priced "Diamond" model as an upgrade replacement for the HC6000 (with more capability).

It looks like the Epson 6500 is going to be the direct replacement of their Home Cinema 1080UB, including about the same pricing and performance (except for the "interpolation" feature mentioned above). The current 1080UB has a new $300 rebate to drop its price (good through November 30). The Epson 7500 seems to be the new replacement for the Pro Cinema 1080UB. Epson also has the new 6100 which is their loss leader (similar to the old 1080, non-UB, model) for under $2K, MSRP (If I interpreted Art's blog correctly).

So, there are 2 inorganic D7s (the one in the 1080 UB and this newer one in the 6500)???I believe the new D7s are called D7'. So there's the D7 and D7'. The D7' make 120 Hz possible.

I believe the new D7s are called D7'. So there's the D7 and D7'. The D7' make 120 Hz possible.

There are:

- D7' C²Fine (120Hz capable driver)
- D7 C²Fine
- D7 (organic like in the Sanyo Z700)
- D6 C²Fine


Regards,
Ekkehart

broadwayblue,

In his Sanyo PLV-Z60 and PLV-Z2000 post, Art posted that quote: " Panasonic, who normally duels it out with Sanyo, on the other hand, is sticking with their PT-AX200U, which they released last fall. " Sadly, it looks like no 300 this year.

bummer if true. guess that explains why we haven't heard a thing about an AX300.

Thanks Ekkehart, that clears up the panel picture. As you said before, all C²Fine panels are inorganic.

In his Sanyo PLV-Z60 and PLV-Z2000 post, Art posted that quote: " Panasonic, who normally duels it out with Sanyo, on the other hand, is sticking with their PT-AX200U, which they released last fall. " Sadly, it looks like no 300 this year.
bummer if true. guess that explains why we haven't heard a thing about an AX300.I wonder if Sanyo and Panasonic were trying to keep out of each other's way?

While I've heard a few unconfirmed rumors about a Z3000, it's interesting that the only projectors Sanyo announced at CEDIA or IFA was an entry-level 1080p projector with organic panels, and a Z60 720p projector, while Panasonic focused on upgrading their AE2000 with the AE3000.

I know it is 720p, but Sony has a new lcd projector on their site. Thoughts?