Can't say, but it is the really really huge Hollywood name. Yep the man himself ,his partner went with the meridian but he did not fall for the numbers game.

Congrats to him for taking the high MTF road.

And incidentally I had a chance to play with a Titan Reference projector and as good as this projector is (better color than the ht5000 IMO), these consumer sets are far from approaching the image portrayed by the Superkontrast.

There is simply no contest the Superkontrast conveys the 70mm look, these uhp 1080p 3 chippers ....no way.

Peter:

hope he bought them from you and that you doing the install.

Hi Lon,

Thanks :), no I am not doing his systems but some good friends are. I am doing another big sports name but I can't say that name either, and it will be in a year... :(

Too bad, anything new on the little brother DP1200?

September but in late October they will be much quieter due to a fan speed software rev.

Needless to say that now been intimately familiar with the consumer and the d-cinema side of things, that little Barco is the unit to get for any serious HT. For a media room where you cannot have a separate booth the Titan, The Christie hd6km, the sim2's ae all fine since there are compromises involved, but for an all out home theater why would anyone in the right mind opt out of the last 35% in image quality. Because that large the delta is.

Another thing I want to mention (to steal Wolfgang's thunder for when he reviews the Christie HD6k) is that the motoriosed color correction filter invented in the Titan and now incorporated in the H6km does in fact work, the image looks closest to the dcinema projector at d65 on rec 709, but it comes at a cost of 25-30% ansi cr reduction.

The Barco on CinemaScope zoomed, due to the much better optics has significantly higher ansi cr. related mtf than the Titan Reference on CinemaScope zoomed let's say about a 20% difference, if you engage the color correction filter YOU WILL NOTICE a flattening of the image, the color gets better (for those used to the dci colorimetry which is subdued).

Also pixel resolvability is an issue with the home theater projectors at around 1 sw whereas it's not even an issue in the DCI brethren.

The one thing that is great about the Titan despite not having the servo zoom memory is that when if you position the projetor for dual aspect ratios at both ends of the lens range, that the sharpness is not affected anywhere the lens is. Another great thing is that if you change the zoom and tilt, there is no need to change focus, so it is relatively simple to change aspect ratio in a CIH screen by zooming and tilting, on the Titan and believe the HT5000.

Anotyher advantage of the Supercontrast is that when you open up the zoom, the lit areas above and beyllow the screen are barely noticeable due to the 14 bit balcker than black blanking, on tyhe consumer units it is 10 bit, severely more noticeable.

So Peter how do you feel about the Christie HD 10-KM ?

Art

I like the idea of THE HD 10K mounted on the ceiling in a media room without air handling equipment, for a theater I'd rather get a cp2000m modded from christie, or a SuperKontrast.

Art it is obvious that Christie borrowed a lot from dpi Titan Reference dual 300 watt lamps in line, color correction filter, they have made two improvements on it the servo auto-iris and the intelligent lens. I am sure it is a great projector for a media room, but no way it will approximate the MTF and 70mm visual signature on Blue Ray.

The Titan 1080p reference calibration report had 3010 ansi lumens.

6,210 center brightness 1.0 center black level = full field cr. 6,260.

Pretty nice numbers, still I am and forever will be spoiled by the SK there is something about it that numbers ain't saying. That dp-1200 shure holds a lot of promise for High end HT.

Peter have you tried the yellow filter on the titan, It did not look very good when I tried it.
Or I should say it did not look like xenon and the ANSI and brightness took a hit.

Peter:

The DP1200 still requires a separate projection room for ventilation?

Peter, have you personally seen the Meridian 4k projector?

Peter have you tried the yellow filter on the titan, It did not look very good when I tried it.
Or I should say it did not look like xenon and the ANSI and brightness took a hit.

They have gotten these things working better now, closer calibration. Wether one like it or not it is personal preference but indeed it is closer to TIP7 autocalibrated DCI d65 rec 709 colors, which are not punchy and colorful but more or less subdued.

I forund the ansi cr. hit the same as that with the Isco. Not the brightness though and actually the isco could be beneficial to reduce pixel resolvability in a consumer 3 dlp.

Peter:

The DP1200 still requires a separate projection room for ventilation?

That would depend on the lamp wattage, you may need air handling if not a separate room.

Peter, have you personally seen the Meridian 4k projector?

Hi Adiodadi, No I did not see the Meridian version but the JVC on which it is based and it was setup with all the shading and color uniformity tweaks for a special demo of the Trident in 4k.

It looked like a g-90 on steroids to me, very nice but the ansi cr. suffered. I know the meridian processor has a pixel sharpener but I still can't imagine that would save the resultant MTF from putting an Isco in front of a 4k projector playing 2k. It should yield a third of the MTF of the Barco, and to someone that is used to the Barco it is the difference between looking like 70 mm to a giant g-90, it is a huge difference.

Anotyher advantage of the Supercontrast is that when you open up the zoom, the lit areas above and beyllow the screen are barely noticeable due to the 14 bit balcker than black blanking, on tyhe consumer units it is 10 bit, severely more noticeable.Are you talking about the bars in 2:35:1 material? If so, what does that have to do with bit depth? Are you calibrating so that the DMD mirrors are turning on for video black?

--Darin

That blanking is blacker in a DCI projector than it is on the Titan Reference. What does my calibrating have to do with that? They are both set where they need to be yet the blanking is much darker on the DCI, I really believe that is a bit depth advantage.

Cineramax, have you personally seen this Meridian projector yourself?

Another thing I want to mention (to steal Wolfgang's thunder for when he reviews the Christie HD6k)

You mean HD10K.

is that the motoriosed color correction filter invented in the Titan and now incorporated in the H6km does in fact work, the image looks closest to the dcinema projector at d65 on rec 709, but it comes at a cost of 25-30% ansi cr reduction.

Isn't the notch filter located just after the lamp output, before the light integrator?

If it's the case, not being in the optical path, it cannot affect the ANSI CR.

The yellow filter is after the light sensor for CLO and Dynamic iris, I doubt this suite is attached to the lamp. The manufacturer claims a light reduction as the side effect of engaging this filter.

Does the HD10KM have this filter ?

Art

Yeah like described above.

Is this high end enough? Not the newer DP2K but slightly older DP90. Screen width is 36feet.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/videofusion/P1030328.jpg
and yes it is a personal home cinema

Is this high end enough? Not the newer DP2K but slightly older DP90. Screen width is 36feet.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/videofusion/P1030328.jpg
and yes it is a personal home cinema

Wow 36 feet, you have everyone beat. Very nice. Do I detect a curve in the screen? What is the source? Keep us posted as the rest of the room comes together.

Congrats Ciputra, you are sending everyone back to the drawing boards with this Whopper!

Yes AVS size king. Show us more.:)

Art

I'm going one step further, I've never seen a screen that large in a home installation.

Art

Note miniature human in the corner:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/2868230751_4422460ddf_o.jpg

Note miniature human in the corner:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/2868230751_4422460ddf_o.jpg

Good catch, I missed that. That gives the screen a new perspective. Thats huge. Now Im really interested in hearing about the source. Could be film. What else would hold up at that size.

Good catch, I missed that. That gives the screen a new perspective. Thats huge. Now Im really interested in hearing about the source. Could be film. What else would hold up at that size.

Even 2K DLP if you sit 40' back.

Art

Good catch, I missed that. That gives the screen a new perspective. Thats huge. Now Im really interested in hearing about the source. Could be film. What else would hold up at that size.

The projector is a Barco DP90, which is the same as the DP100, except it has a smaller lamp power supply limited to 4kW lamp maximum. The source is probably DCI. The DP90 uses the 1.2" DMDs with the larger fill factor and you can sit .8x screen width.

Hi All,
Yes i couldn't believe myself too when i first arrived at the site. All along i thought it was for a 'commercial cinema'. It is a project of our agent in Pakistan, my job there was just to setup the projector and to give hands-on training to the tech guys.
The screen is from harkness and yes allan it is curved :p. Believe it or not, there's no DCI sources, at least not yet. The image is from a bollywood DVD upscaled by PS3 :D. P7V2theater color is chosen. no s-curved nor peter's mod, we need all the light output we can have for this screen size. Lamp used is a 3Kw osram set at 110ampere to give a nice 14fl. Why a DP90?simply because when the customer ordered it, there's no DP2000 yet, two years ago. The projector too was kept in the dealer's warehouse for a year while waiting for the house to be constructed from ground up. Since it is a DP90, hence no HDCP for this. A cineversum master 2 scaler (basically a DVDO VP30) is used just as passthrough. The cineversum scaler can output to non HDCP projector in all its digital glory. The whole house automation includes multiple crestron touchpanels, 1080P LCD monitors and a few "Kaleidascape" systems. The speakers chosen is from tannoy and amps from rotel. Too bad the audio was not hooked up yet when i was there.
Here're more pictures of the cinema:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/videofusion/P1030320.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/videofusion/P1030309.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/videofusion/P1030306.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/videofusion/P1030311.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/videofusion/P1030331.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/videofusion/SNC00268.jpg

Sorry for the bad photo taking skills, i guess since this is peter's thread i should take photo like him :P

Sorry for the bad photo taking skills, i guess since this is peter's thread i should take photo like him :P

Certainly good enough to get the grand nature of the room. Thanks very much for spending the time.

Art

Ciputra,

Do a search for Moome HD Mux. Why not use a 4kW lamp?

Hi Odissey,
The 3kw is the standard lamp that one can get from barco, other than the 6K. What is the runtime for a 4K lamp? the 3Kw is 1500hours
Thanks for the moome tip, the other option is the Spatz DVImagic, waiting for my contact if he still have them

I don't know the 4kW lamp run time, but it should be at least as long as the 3kW and allow you to use CLO. Everything else equal, lower lamp current should result in longer life.

I can confirm that the Moome works well with a DP100. Aso, it offers an option to maintain YCbCr and not convert to RGB.

Hi Odi,
If using a 3kw at 110amp and a 4kw also at 110amp, there don't seem a need to use a 4Kw then. Byw as usual the CLO in this unit is optional ;) Moome's HD-mux is interesting but reading at the curt's not many people have received theirs i supposed

You can drop the 4kW lamp current to about 80 amps and increase its life. The CLO is an option, but very useful. However, you have to start well below maximum lamp current to allow the automatic increase as the lamp ages. If you go to the 4kW lamp, you can also increase white luminance. Many of us calibrate to at least 20 fL, but even 16 or 18 should be looked at. Also, I am not sure that you can maintain 14 fL, which really should be the minimum, with the 3kW lamp as it ages.

If you are stuck, I may have an extra HD Mux and the DTronics unit also. You should also check with Barco to see if the HDCP daughter card is compatible with the DP90. I don't think that it is, but it's worth a try.

I'm pretty sure the it is not compatible or a compatible one is yet to be developed for the DP90/100.

Lucky dude to be able to look "om shanti om" that big. Shahrukh rulez. The sofas really look "lost in space"....

This is a pretty spectacular setup and I don't want to take anything away from the Barco. Just a couple of points though:

Congrats to him for taking the high MTF road.


With 4K material the 4K projector will have higher MTF because the nyquist limit ends at 2K for the 2K projector. Even with 2K material I would expect the 4K projector to have higher MTF although a lot of other factors would be involved including lens quality and 3-panel alignment. The lens quality on the Meridian is supposed to be superb. There are a lot of reasons for preferring the image on the Barco, but I don't think that MTF is one of them.

Hi Adiodadi, No I did not see the Meridian version but the JVC on which it is based and it was setup with all the shading and color uniformity tweaks for a special demo of the Trident in 4k.


Based on conversations I've had with someone who is knownledgeable about both the Meridian and the JVC they share the same basic parts but there are significant differences between the two.

This is a pretty spectacular setup and I don't want to take anything away from the Barco. Just a couple of points though:



With 4K material the 4K projector will have higher MTF because the nyquist limit ends at 2K for the 2K projector. Even with 2K material I would expect the 4K projector to have higher MTF although a lot of other factors would be involved including lens quality and 3-panel alignment. The lens quality on the Meridian is supposed to be superb. There are a lot of reasons for preferring the image on the Barco, but I don't think that MTF is one of them.



Based on conversations I've had with someone who is knowledgeable about both the Meridian and the JVC they share the same basic parts but there are significant differences between the two.

I had a chance to dissect the meridian and jvc in multiple sessions, MTF at 2k is still an issue although not as much as I previously thought. the Meridian Image is wonderfully captivating but a 70mm replica is not. There is something otherworldly about the meridian image. Would I use it? Sure in a giant rear projection setup with very short viewing ratios, but not for movie watching, in fact I recommend it for everything except movie watching, that includes regular hdtv, concerts,sports simulations, remote telepresence ,YOU NAME IT except as qualified. 3-D this is one area where the seamlessness of the 8k platform enhances the 3-D effect. Even in JVC's 2k 3-D demo the effect was phenomenal, the closest thing you will experience to a fluid View master experience. I can only imagine how much better it would be on a meridian stack.

http://cineramax.com/images/products/outdoor_system.pnghttp://cineramax.com/images/products/golf_sim.png

The meridian video processor is grand, but it was too squeaky clean, they even show the heavily dnr'd Patton and some of the other material is heavily dnr'd for consistency. I theorized in another thread that different Super High End projectors trigger different hormonally balanced responses. I find that the Barco with the s-shape gamma curve and the 5,6k-1 mods will provided an image reminiscent of 70 mm (due to the massive depth) , I believe that such image triggers dopamine in the brain. By contrast the clinically utopian squeaky clean ultra-resolute rendering of the Meridian does not infuse quite the dopamine but instead a serotonin richer mix (A Disney ride on acid- what one would imagine it to be without actually indulging).

The JVC is very nice and its presentation was superior to the meridian (simply because it was all played from a 4k deck, both 4k material and 2k reels bumped to 4k, the film grain preservation was thus exquisite there.

Certainly good enough to get the grand nature of the room. Thanks very much for spending the time.

Art

Dude that is SICK! :)

Yea ain't it.:)

Art

The JVC is very nice and its presentation was superior to the meridian (simply because it was all played from a 4k deck, both 4k material and 2k reels bumped to 4k, the film grain preservation was thus exquisite there.

Very entertaining post Max :) I'm glad you liked the JVC and the Meridian after you've had a chance to view them. From what I've heard Meridian provided some of their own specs and I think the 4K machines are where JVC and Meridian diverge as far as being identical.

Back on topic though, the sheer size of that room is really impressive.

the Meridian Image is wonderfully captivating but a 70mm replica is not.As I said to you at CEDIA when I was only half joking, the JVC didn't remind me of 70mm. It reminded me of IMAX. I know different strokes for different folks, and I didn't see the Wolf demo or the Meridian demo at the show, but to my eyes the JVC 4k was the class of what I saw at the show. The Titan has a different kind of look that I can see some prefering, but the JVC images had a more natural look to my eyes, not even counting the 4k content. Even with the 2k content scaled up I felt like I could watch it at .5x the screen width or so, which I figure was probably about how far back the 2nd row was where we sat. I would have loved to have seen the smilebox version of How the West Was Won on it. I think sitting close really helps the effect with that one.

--Darin

As I said to you at CEDIA when I was only half joking, the JVC didn't remind me of 70mm. It reminded me of IMAX. I know different strokes for different folks, and I didn't see the Wolf demo or the Meridian demo at the show, but to my eyes the JVC 4k was the class of what I saw at the show. The Titan has a different kind of look that I can see some prefering, but the JVC images had a more natural look to my eyes, not even counting the 4k content. Even with the 2k content scaled up I felt like I could watch it at .5x the screen width or so, which I figure was probably about how far back the 2nd row was where we sat. I would have loved to have seen the smilebox version of How the West Was Won on it. I think sitting close really helps the effect with that one.

--Darin


Until some expert viewer can come down here and corroborate my claim, take my word that the cinema dlp hacked for contrast and with s gamma is on a class of it's own in perceived depth (that is what I refer to as pseudo 70mm and I attribute greatly to the projectors huge MTF and s/n ratio). The Titan Reference(6.2k-1on/off,3,300 ansi lumens) with s-gamma settings can be made to approximate the Barco but the s/n ratio of the 1920x1080 platform does get in the way, it gets in the way even more on the Wolf due to it's native platform selection which has consistently being noisy looking (in my observations over repeated viewings since it's inaugural display in Info comm 2006). That platform does benefit from the isco softness in smudging the noise a bit as evidenced in previous Runco Vx-55 displays.

That being said the JVC was a very competent picture but in a way Darin it was rigged the Meridian is more honest in it's content, it certainly benefits sitting close with these ones, agreed 100% that it calls for Imax seating distances, the problem is YOU NEED REAR PROJECTION for these projectors to be able to get at an arms length of the screen without seeing your o0wn silloutte, the JVC/Meridian and Stewart Starglass (9'x16') are the ideal mix- I see a huge future for it in the super high end secondary media room.
[I envision large estates outfitted with more than one super high end theater, I see a 40 foot long movie theater equipped with cinema dlp, a gaming room outfitted with a 8k giant 150' plasma(with 3-D), an outdoor pavillion with a giant 3-d outdoor rear projection screen, and a 103" plasma in the bedroom(with 3-d)- to me having such a 3-D multiplex in a large estate makes sense for people in the industry that have access to Dolby Show Content, it will allow them to savour every nuance in all these advanced display technologies during different occasions and with different company ]

3-D 103 panny.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/09/9-24-08-panny-3d-bundle.jpg
For example this is a prime candidate for a CINERAMAX MULTIPLEX :D
http://www.miamibadc.com/Images/zht.jpg


I am point blank going to say that due to the periphery fill of sitting close to such a screen THE LCOS higher fill factor CREAMS DLP FOR 3-D applicability.

To me 3-d should seem like a giant Viewmaster come alive...
http://a.abcnews.com/images/WNT/ht_viewmaster_061109_ssv.jpg

and no one projector has taken me closer to that experience than a pair of lowly rs-20's feeding sensio pro Beowulf in hd. It brought tears to me eyes
how uncanny this technology replicated my viewmaster days in the late sixtees.

The Smile vision is something that has me captivated, but with the enormous depth of field of the Titan, and since Ruben has the capacity to crank out unusually deep curved screens (PLEASE WOLF DON'T USE THIS IDEA ON YOUR NEXT CEDIA) I am very tempted to recreate the cineramax curve required to make the Smilebox footprint a constant height deep curve display. Yes Personal CINERAMA [IDNK that CINERAMA was an anachronism for AMERICAN , guess that makes me an Extreme American, how cool is that].

Darin- Did you actually see a video processor at the JVC 4K booth? I did not, I asked and 4 engineers told me everything was coming of a 4k deck, the 2k video was bumped up (that is why all that wonderful grain was there-no wonder it reminded you of Imax). Enter the need for the Meridian- the Marvel processor works fabulously (except heavily DNRing all grain in it's path).

What can I say, I need this Wall Street bailout to work and work fast , there is a lot of experimenting to do in the coming years and I need patrons with really deep pockets this time to be able to accomplish it all.

Even with the 2k content scaled up I felt like I could watch it at .5x the screen width or so, which I figure was probably about how far back the 2nd row was where we sat.
--Darin


Well that certainly would be a big advantage for 4K devices.

Art

Well that certainly would be a big advantage for 4K devices.

Art

But at this point (sitting at .5sw or even.5h) you no longer want 2.35 wide screen, now you really need something like Imax or say 16x9 ar, because the image periphery gets too spread out. It really calls for a rear screen setup.

Well that certainly would be a big advantage for 4K devices.

Art

Art, you really need 4K in your HT. Tell you what, if you bring the 4K, I'll bring the popcorn :D