Did the PD M80 AKA Helios enter the witness protection program?

Did the PD M80 AKA Helios enter the witness protection program?

I don't think it made it to the WP.

Before it made it to the Feds, it got whacked, dumped in a trunk, and is now in a shallow grave just outside Vegas.:)

Maybe it could still make the greatest comeback since Lazarus:D

Yeah CM I saw a picture of it on a milk carton.., or was that PD's web site...?

Yeah CM I saw a picture of it on a milk carton.., or was that PD's web site...?

I've given up. I was salivating for that piece for ages. Other things on the horizon seem likely to fit my needs.

Are you feeling an itch?

I take the fifth;)

It's been on hiatus, but not to worry it's scheduled to be at pd's booth at CEDIA.

It's been on hiatus, but not to worry it's scheduled to be at pd's booth at CEDIA.

Which is also weird since they split the brands and told us that from now on they will run different boots at shows. Maybe its just me but PD seems a mess at the moment. I took them of my shortlist for my next projector because of their very unclear roadmap and actions.

Daniel.

The M80/F80 were top of my list for replacing my Cineo but I suspect CEDIA will throw up some competition which is too good to ignore... the M80 will be too little, too late...

Mark

It's been on hiatus, but not to worry it's scheduled to be at pd's booth at CEDIA.

PD will have a booth ?

Art

PD will have a booth ?

Art

Booth #342, close to the Yamaha booth.
http://www.cedia.net/expo/new_expo/ExhibitLevel.pdf

Test reports from one of the PJ’s in the Avielo range, the small 1 chipper Spectra with RGBRGB colorwheel and PD's new colorcalibration software is, eh...... rather very enthusiastic. Seems like PD's success and experience in the "movie post production world" has produced some excellent color reproduction. But they are not going for the “high contrast numbers game” we see from other brands, but concentrate on very good Ansi cr./dynamic range and correct color reproduction. According to PD, Avielo range of projectors is “post production” quality brought to the HT crowd.
I guess the 3 chipper Helios is “up there with the best”.

Hope somebody check them out and report back.

The CR for the M80 was originally mooted to be about 50k:1 but that was over a year ago when we first heard about it. I guess we will soon find out what they really managed...

Mark

Booth #342, close to the Yamaha booth.
http://www.cedia.net/expo/new_expo/ExhibitLevel.pdf

Test reports from one of the PJ’s in the Avielo range, the small 1 chipper Spectra with RGBRGB colorwheel and PD's new colorcalibration software is, eh...... rather very enthusiastic. Seems like PD's success and experience in the "movie post production world" has produced some excellent color reproduction. But they are not going for the “high contrast numbers game” we see from other brands, but concentrate on very good Ansi cr./dynamic range and correct color reproduction. According to PD, Avielo range of projectors is “post production” quality brought to the HT crowd.
I guess the 3 chipper Helios is “up there with the best”.

Hope somebody check them out and report back.

Seen the Spectra/M25 myself a while back, good machine but nothing special. Very accurate color, but so is any PJ with a CMS. Good Grayscale tracking too. The first one that was delivered to a customer here was DOA,there are reliability issues. I know 2 major dealer who wont touch them. Thats unfortunate because my past experience of PD was very impressive.

They most certainly ARE chasing the "high contrast numbers game", possibly more than anyone. I've been told that it was the inability to get even close to the M80 number of 50k that led to the PJ not being released. Cooling was apparently another issue. The fact that the name has changed means that its a different PJ and therefore can have a different spec. That gets round failing to deliver the original spec.

Regarding "post production" quality being brought to the HT crowd, that's a joke. The majority of post houses don't use high end PJ's at all. Some will use Barco DCI machines but most use rather mediocre machines, some don't even have PJ systems and many that do are only for screening and not grading. There are a number of high end PJs that are, or can be, 100% color accurate. Many users on this forum and other sections of AVS are using machines far better that the majority of post houses.

Its also very telling that the Helios is the only one of the range whose brochure is unavailable on the site. This has been the case since the site opened.

Having said all that, I want to see the Helios deliver the goods. It would be a total killer if it delivered even half of the M80 spec.

One good thing about the Helios/M80 is that the filters are easily changed due to easy access via the top panel. I have a feeling this will be a very relevant option fairly soon:)

CM, 100% correct, but I don't understand this " One good thing about the Helios/M80 is that the filters are easily changed due to easy access via the top panel. I have a feeling this will be a very relevant option fairly soon"

Ah now I get it, nevermind :)

CM, 100% correct

Thank you

Ah now I get it, nevermind :)

You've got to love a cryptic crowd pleaser.:D

I am not going confirm or dispute some of the "rumors" posted here, I would simply suggest you stop by their booth at CEDIA and see for yourself. Both the Optix and Helios will be running, the Prisma, Radiance and Spectra will be on static display.

Kdavis:

Thanks, are there any specs posted yet anywhere?

Helios will be running

I hope so, I have been stoked for this machine for ages. This CEDIA looks like it could be very exciting for the Hi-End segment

I hope so, I have been stoked for this machine for ages.

Me too, but I wonder is Sony/JVC will steal their thunder... going to be very interesting...

Mark

Me too, but I wonder is Sony/JVC will steal their thunder... going to be very interesting...

Mark

This is the heavyweight title bout.

Art

This is the heavyweight title bout.

Art

I think if we throw the Christie in there we could have a Steel Cage Death Match.:D:D

I've been told spec's are on the way shortly. pd is not publishing them until the product actually hits the production line. From my understanding the last major development hurdle has been cleared and it's just a matter of getting the final testing completed.

coldmachine: I'm with you, I've been waiting for this one as well. I did get a sneak preview at InfoComm with the M80 and that only made me more anxious, the picture was extraordinary. I also agree that this year's CEDIA is going to have one heckava high-end projector segment, lots of new and very exciting offerings. If pd can deliver the Helios with what they have promised it could easily be one of the front runners.

Let me just say this about pd and the recent announcement of the avielo line. As many of you know, pd over the years has focused more on business, commercial and government solutions (read: 24/7 operations) rather than residential. They have been slowly growing into the home theater segment trying to employ some of their key features from the other lines in an effort to not just be another video product. The launch of the avielo line is really their official coming out party and announcement into the home theater market. What happens from here is of course up to them but I'm excited.

Don't forget the 4K Wolf Cinema $$$$$$ Projectors...... Another heavy Weight to be showcased at the CEDIA...

What is the Helios going to ball park price at?

What is the Helios going to ball park price at?

I was led to believe the M80 was $70k-$80k depending on lens choice. Im assuming similar for the Helios.

I don't know if this matters, but this is from pd's Fall 2008 mailing:

"The Helios 3 Chip projector is a breakthrough in product engineering with it’s industry first, all Glass Light Path. It is the most efficient light engine design currently available anywhere. With a native resolution of 1920 x 1080 and producing up to 6500 ANSI Lumens with up to 10,000:1 of “Real” contrast ratio (without active Irising), adjustable iris control, automatic shutter mechanism, expansion card that insures future performance, filter customization for Color Palette performance to the most demanding, or unique specifications, the Helios is truly unique in both its design and performance ."

No pricing info yet.

Yummy.

I don't know if this matters, but this is from pd's Fall 2008 mailing:

"The Helios 3 Chip projector is a breakthrough in product engineering with it’s industry first, all Glass Light Path. It is the most efficient light engine design currently available anywhere. With a native resolution of 1920 x 1080 and producing up to 6500 ANSI Lumens with up to 10,000:1 of “Real” contrast ratio (without active Irising), adjustable iris control, automatic shutter mechanism, expansion card that insures future performance, filter customization for Color Palette performance to the most demanding, or unique specifications, the Helios is truly unique in both its design and performance ."

No pricing info yet.


That's very interesting indeed. Seems like projectiondesign have revised their M80 specs of 50,000:1 CR and 10,000 lumens was it? In any case, these figures seem to be on the achievable side and Helios will definitely be one to look out for in the future. I would reckon the price to be in 70-80K region, slightly more than the HT 5000.

Sounds like a few more nickels and dimes to save.


CM,
Damit, get your theater done and projector in so I can know what to do next.:D

Art

Sounds like a few more nickels and dimes to save.


CM,
Damit, get you theater done and projector in so I can know what to do next.:D

Art

Now I have my screen nailed, I can get to work. I've got my shortlist and will get round them as soon as possible.

A lot of "up to" in that Helios release.

I just KNEW that filter thing would be very significant as soon as I saw it mentioned a while back they were accessed via that top plate.

Its funny how they mention filter customization but totally ignore the 800lb Gorilla.

The lumens will be affected by the colour wheel choice. I suspect the 6500 lumens is for data graphics. For movies we'd probably see that drop to 4000 or even lower. The contrast ratio will be determined by how far closed the mechanical iris is. One of the things I cannot do with my Cineo and screen size is fully close the iris so I never got anywhere near the specced 7K:1 contrast for that projector. 4000 lumens would be enough to fully close and hit that 10k:1...

I wonder how the all-glass route affects ANSI CR...

Mark

$70K Helios.... I suppose that means the AVS buyer's price will be closer to $45K -$50K. If this looks like the piece, lets get a small group together and make our own CEDIA deal with them!!:D

I wonder if you can get it with an anamorphic lens as one of the lens selections?

The lumens will be affected by the colour wheel choice.

Mark

colorwheel??????

It's a 3-DLP projector...

The lumens will be affected by the colour wheel choice. I suspect the 6500 lumens is for data graphics. For movies we'd probably see that drop to 4000 or even lower. The contrast ratio will be determined by how far closed the mechanical iris is. One of the things I cannot do with my Cineo and screen size is fully close the iris so I never got anywhere near the specced 7K:1 contrast for that projector. 4000 lumens would be enough to fully close and hit that 10k:1...

I wonder how the all-glass route affects ANSI CR...

Mark

Mark are you talking about the DCI filtering this is a three chip ?

Art

Pfft, I'm talking out of my butt regarding loss of light. Apologies. Good catch :D

Mark

I wonder if you can get it with an anamorphic lens as one of the lens selections?

There are 6 choices of optional lenses that can be used with the top of the line 1DLP. It should be more or less the same for this model. You would need to add an ISCO III plus Cineslide or perhaps get the motorized solution from projectiondesign as an added accessory. They were working on one a couple of years ago but I don't know what happened after that.


Mark: projectiondesign stated 10:000:1 real contrast ratio [according to that e-mail excerpt] without the usage of the iris. I believe that 10K:1 CR is achievable without clamping down on the iris at the cost of lumens. I don't know what the real world figures will eventually be but I reckon 7000:1 CR without dynamic iris at max lumens may well be possible with this machine if it is what it is touted to be. If it can achieve figures close to 6500 lumens with 10:000 CR at D65 then it will be quite a feat. On the conservative side I reckon it may reach 3000 lumens and 7000:1 CR simultaneously at D65. Just a guess.

I reckon it may reach 3000 lumens and 7000:1 CR simultaneously at D65. Just a guess.[/COLOR]

Those are exactly the numbers I'm guessing too.

why won't these guys offer an internal 2.35 lens?

why won't these guys offer an internal 2.35 lens?

Nobody does currently as per my knowledge. You need an external anamorphic lens and ISCO III is leading the pack until Schneider comes up with their new offering soon for some competition. Maybe in the future, this will be an offering by manufacturers. In any case, if they do offer it, why would you want to pay a premium over it when you could get it from ISCO who themselves manufacture it?


On a side note, Helios will most probably be a dual lamp projector seeing that it has projectiondesign's patented DuArch architecture.

They are on my list to see for Thursday.

why won't these guys offer an internal 2.35 lens?

Its been tried, with 3 main issues.

1. With an external unit, a sled failure still leaves the manual option that works perfectly.

2. The cost of the smaller lenses is horrific.

3. 235 is removed as an optional, adding to the cost. If it were an option it complicates the build stage, also adding to the cost

No, I mean a built-in, fixed 2.35 lens.. For myself, scope films are most of my viewing. Internal processing to project a 1.78 image from the 2.35 lens. With a 4K panel there'd be a lot of pixels to maintain a high resolution.

I understand that there would be added design costs for such...

Thanks.

No, I mean a built-in, fixed 2.35 lens.. For myself, scope films are most of my viewing. Internal processing to project a 1.78 image from the 2.35 lens. With a 4K panel there'd be a lot of pixels to maintain a high resolution.

I understand that there would be added design costs for such...

Thanks.

What relevance is a 4k panel to a Helios?

That aside, I like the idea of a 235 primary and using the PJs VP to project 16:9. Much neater install too.

That would be one heck of a lens. AS LONG AS YOU CAN POSITION THE PROJECTOR CORRECTLY a servo zoom lens is the best current solution.

No, I mean a built-in, fixed 2.35 lens.. For myself, scope films are most of my viewing. Internal processing to project a 1.78 image from the 2.35 lens. With a 4K panel there'd be a lot of pixels to maintain a high resolution.

I understand that there would be added design costs for such...

Thanks.

I've thought that this would be the best of all worlds but no one is doing it yet.

Art

What Peter said

Its rumored we are to see such a lens/projector in operation at Cedia. I like the idea myself. Have no idea how they are implementing it or what the lens looks like. If it also serves as the primary lens it should be much smaller then stand alone anamorphic's.

The Helios is not listed in today's DP Avielo releases for the CEDIA show.

Yeah its in hiding in Arizona with Sammy the Bull

FFS will some one just kill it already, or call a priest.

The Helios is not listed in today's DP Avielo releases for the CEDIA show.

Where are you finding what will be shown at CEDIA ?

Art

My regular fix from the bizwire, well the VPO subsidiary, actually. Seems my three times per day Bizwire email service has been halted again. No need to fix this right now as I almost exclusively used the daily VPO email anyway. The Bizwire email service sends out HTML emails with links to its website (the journalist one which includes the contact details), so very bothersome to copy the text from the website and paste it it and then get rid of the extra garbage to get proper txt. So, the vpo just sends out a text email filled to the brim with headlines, reply and get the releases per return email, plain text, and ready for archiving;-). Although had to go to the website today and request half of the ordered releases, agian, as one seems to always miss a couple, when requesting more than a few releases at a time.

So does that mean yopu can't guide me to the place ?

art

No just that I had to scoure my webmail inbox, and couldn't find it. Just requested the releases again, will post them in a minute, when they come in.

News Release

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
See projectiondesign at CEDIA EXPO 08, booth #342

projectiondesign's new avielo home cinema series touts professional DLP® features

Denver, CO (CEDIA EXPO) August 25, 2008 – projectiondesign announces their new avielo series of premier home cinema DLP projectors that offer important Hollywood moviemaker capabilities to residential users. Notably, the avielo series scores on two counts. First, it provides the very latest in high performance projection technology. Second, avielo sets the pace for esthetic achievement, reflecting top-level industrial design.

The first three models to be released – the spectra, optix and prisma – are designed with and over-the-top user experience in mind and include professional grade features like Phillips UHP™ VIDI lamp technology, projectiondesign's exclusive RealColor color management suite, Texas Instruments® DLP technology, full 10-bit processing, custom designed optics and HDMI 1.3 interconnectivity. Each projector is uniquely characterized and calibrated at the factory, ensuring they will provide the best possible image quality.

VIDI lighting technology strengthens color performance as it produces additional brightness by delivering more lumens on screen. Users can employ VIDI's Ultra High Performance (UHP) wave shaper to select and boost individual colors for knockout imaging. With VIDI the end result is heightened brightness in video mode and better color fidelity in data mode. VIDI"s superior contrast ratio allows users to finally say goodbye to the disappearance of detail during dark scenes.

The new, full HD 1080p resolution avielo spectra offers a native resolution of 1,920 x 1,080 pixels and is suitable for screen sizes up to 120-inch diagonal. With its hand selected "Signature" series projection lenses, high end video processing, and technologies that are directly transferred from our professional projectors often used in the movie industry, this is our expected best seller.

Designed to offer the ultimate in performance from a single-chip DLP design, the avielo optix also features full HD 1080p resolution, a choice of six lens options, three of which come from the hand-selected `Signature' series for the best possible picture quality. The unit is suitable for screen sizes up to 180-inch diagonal, and uses projectiondesign's patented `DuArch' dual illumination architecture, ensuring that performance is unaffected even in the event of a lamp failure. Cased in a distinctive `Etruscan Bronze' finish, which simply oozes class, the optix will also complement the most stylish of home interiors.

Titled avielo prisma, the entry level DLP projector features 720p resolution, and is suitable for screen sizes up to 100 inches diagonal and is designed to offer the company's legendary image quality and ruggedness of construction in a package that is more affordable than ever before.

Two further models are to be unveiled during the fourth quarter of 2008. The upcoming avielo radiance model is based on the same chassis as the spectra, but features a higher-power output, making it suitable for screen sizes up to about 135-inch diagonal.

Topping the range, meanwhile, will be the avielo helios. Using a proprietary design 3-chip DLP architecture, this model is packed with technological advances, including optically adjustable color gamut without losing precious dynamics and bit-depth, and for the first time, an image content adaptive output level for 3-chip DLP projectors. Suitable for screen sizes up to 300 inches diagonal, the helios has been designed from the outset as a home cinema projector without compromise.

Gary Plavin, President of projectiondesign LLC Americas says, "The HD revolution has consumers demanding the crème de la crème. That's avielo with moviemaker performance features. Just look at our complete specifications. They're unbeatable. We believe there's a perfect DLP projector fit within the new avielo series for anyone in the market to experience outstanding home cinema."

The avielo series expresses a stunning contemporary look and style in designer shades of Etruscan Bronze and Pearl White.

About avielo http://www.avielo.com
The avielo series of high performance projectors are designed and hand-built in Fredrikstad, Norway by projectiondesign. Aimed at the high-end custom installation market for use in elite lifestyle applications, avielo projectors feature the most advanced imaging technology that is consistently being utilized in the making of blockbuster movies. The series incorporates a wide range of models, from entry level to the ultimate high end in video display.
About projectiondesign
Headquartered in Fredrikstad, Norway, projectiondesign is a worldwide leader in advanced, high-performance DLP-based projection solutions for challenging applications in professional, business, home cinema and eCinema markets. Numerous industry milestones including the introduction of the world's first single-chip SXGA DLP projector in 2002, the first commercially available 1080p DLP projector in 2006 and first WUXGA DLP projector in 2008 distinguish its award-winning, innovative technology. projectiondesign has offices in Fredrikstad (Norway), Gothenburg, Singapore, Milan, Stuttgart, Bilbao, Bombay, Cape Town, London and New York.

For additional information:
North and South American Press and Manufacturer Inquiries
Gary Plavin projectiondesign, LLC
Tel. 800-298-4508 •
gary.plavin@projectiondesign.com, http://www.projectiondesign.com, http://www.avielo.com
Press Contact:
Roberta Lewis, Roberta Lewis & Assoc. Public Relations Tel. 713/665-8758 • rlewis@robertalewis.com
International Manufacturer Inquiries:
Anders Løkke Tel. +47 69 30 45 68 • anders.lokke@projectiondesign.com

International Press Contact:
Katinka Allender, Tel. +44 (0) 1491 571402 • katinka@k-communications.com
# # #

All trademarks are the property of their respective companies. DLP is a registered trademark of Texas Instruments.

News Release

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
See projectiondesign at CEDIA EXPO 08, booth #342

projectiondesign to provide new avielo series HD DLP® projectors for 200+ education sessions at CEDIA EXPO 08

Denver, CO (CEDIA EXPO) August 22, 2008 – Norway's projectiondesign announces its exclusive role as the official CEDIA EXPO projector sponsor ensuring that all training and education rooms will be equipped with new avielo series 1080p DLP home cinema projectors. The projectors will be used for the display of a wide range of educational presentation material, high-resolution computer graphics and video throughout EXPO 08.

The avielo series is a step above most home cinema projectors as projectiondesign incorporated their professional DLP technology and experience with commercial projectors and the movie theater industry into a new range of home cinema projectors tailored to the specific needs and esthetics of the residential environment and consumers alike.

"Thanks to the generosity of projectiondesign, CEDIA EXPO 08 will have new high-tech HD DLP projectors in more than 200 education sessions," said Tom Bewsey, CEDIA Sponsorship Sales Coordinator. "We appreciate projectiondesign's enhancing the EXPO 08 educational experience."

Show participants will see firsthand the depth, accuracy and clarity of projectiondesign's avielo series 1080p single-chip projectors during every educational classroom presentation, workshop and course attended. All avielo models feature projectiondesign's exclusive RealColor color management suite, full 10-bit video processing, and proprietary custom designed signature series optics. Each projector is uniquely characterized and calibrated at the company's factory in Fredrikstad, Norway.

New avielo series of high performance DLP projectors includes five models to choose from including the optix (1080p dual lamp), spectra (1080p), radiance (1080p), prisma (720p) and helios (three-chip, 1080p).

Gary Plavin, projectiondesign LLC president says, "We are thrilled to be the exclusive projector sponsor at EXPO 08 and are excited about stepping-up our commitment level and support to this important industry event. And what a grand manner to debut our new avielo home cinema series of projectors to the premier custom integration channel."

About avielo http://www.avielo.com
The avielo series of high performance projectors are designed and hand-built in Fredrikstad, Norway by projectiondesign. Aimed at the high-end custom installation market for use in elite lifestyle applications, avielo projectors feature the most advanced imaging technology that is consistently being utilized in the making of blockbuster movies. The series incorporates a wide range of models, from entry level to the ultimate high end in video display.
About projectiondesign http://www.projectiondesign.com
Headquartered in Fredrikstad, Norway, projectiondesign is a worldwide leader in advanced, high-performance DLP-based projection solutions for challenging applications in professional, business, home cinema and eCinema markets. Numerous industry milestones including the introduction of the world's first single-chip SXGA DLP projector in 2002, the first commercially available 1080p DLP projector in 2006 and first WUXGA DLP projector in 2008 distinguish its award-winning, innovative technology. projectiondesign has offices in Fredrikstad (Norway), Gothenburg, Singapore, Milan, Stuttgart, Bilbao, Bombay, Cape Town, London and New York.
For additional information:
North and South American Press and Manufacturer Inquiries

Gary Plavin projectiondesign LLC
Tel. 800-298-4508 gary.plavin@projectiondesign.com, http://www.projectiondesign.com
Press Contact:
Roberta Lewis, Roberta Lewis & Assoc. Public Relations Tel. 713/665-8758 • rlewis@robertalewis.com
International Manufacturer Inquiries:
Anders Løkke Tel. +47 69 30 45 68 • anders.lokke@projectiondesign.com

International Press Contact:
Katinka Allender, Tel. +44 (0) 1491 571402 • katinka@k-communications.com
# # #

All trademarks are the property of their respective companies. DLP is a registered trademark of Texas Instruments.

So who went to the booth and saw the demo?

They were showing both the Optix and the Helios.

The demo started with the Optix. Casino Royale was being played. The scene where James wakes up, everything is blurry and white, then he is sitting outside with Vesper.

The screen was a Stewart curved screen. A Panamorph lens was in place. Image was calibrated to 14 foot-lamberts. The image was stunning. Colors were amazing. The picture was clear, detailed and crisp enough that I started to notice facial blemishes on James and Vesper.

The attendant paused the video, then switched to the Helios, which was displaying the same image the Optix was, only now the foot lamberts jumped up to 28! A very bright image indeed. It still retained the clarity, color and shadow detail that we saw before it was just much brighter.

All in all, it was a great demo for me. I am a relative beginner when it comes to video.

The audio setup was all Paradigm on-wall speakers and the sound was awful. I could tell they were focused on the video and left the audio untouched. Background noise was awful. It was just as loud inside the demo room as it was outside the booth.

Thoughts?

To me the single chip looked better.

The 3 chipper was far to bright and the colors looked fake and washed out.

The rep said we wanted to show off the brightness of this machine can do.

Oh well...

The DPI Lighting Reference (whatever their top dog was in the side room) was the bomb. Outstanding.