OK let's bring this thread back up.

The original intent is IMO to discuss what potential programming would happen on this day ,most likely to commemorate what is happening (the analog TV shutoff)

I see a Nightline story on it. :)

Besides Nightline, my prediction is network news will have a short story about the analog cutoff towards the end of the program, unless it's a slow news day. Late night talk shows will likely make humor of it. Not sure about cable news channels but they may pay more attention since they are owned by companies that also own broadcast properties. Local news will be all over it especially since their late newscasts may be the last complete show broadcast in analog. It would be nice if the stations in a given market would synchronize their shutoff and combine for an observance of the transition. I'd like to see them air a multiview of the major stations in their market leaving the air.

One question brought up in the previous thead is the best time to shut down the analog. Many stations are playing channel hopscotch as they shift from their temporary secondary digital channel to their present analog channel. This could mean some down time. OTA viewers will probably need to rescan and hopefully that fact will be drilled in. Cable and sat viewers will probably be affected as well because the providers will need to make changes due to their feeds often originating from OTA. Changing right at midnight could interrupt late night network programming on affiliates that require such a change. Will the cutoff be given a grace period of a couple hours or will the actual cutoff be the night before?

It is a momentous change but I think most viewers could care less as long as their TV works afterwards. In that respect I expect to see the S.O.S*

*Same Old Shlt Stuff

I don't think digital cable and satellite viewers will see anything happen at the cutoff time. Cable/Sat companies should already be using HDTV downconvert feeds at local distribution headends by February. At least I hope. It just opens the window for trouble if they wait til the last minute to make the switch. I'd expect to see SD feeds "changing" this fall since networks are already sending out 4:3 safe digital broadcasts. Which will be really nice for SD viewers, who will get to see a better digital feed rather than an analog feed upconverted to digital.

I know our local TWC SD digital looks horrendous. The CW channel has ghosting and diagonal stripes on it, obviously analog upconverted for SD digital. The other locals aren't too pretty either.

The problem is that cable and sat providers are sourcing much of their HD and SD downconverts from OTA. Many (if not most) stations with their analog on an upper VHF channel (7-13) will move from their present digital channel to their analog channel. The power savings compared to UHF is significant. Stations presenly above channel 51 will also be affected. Most low VHF stations will probably not relocate to those channels as ATSC doesn't work well on those frequencies.

Many stations are planning flash cuts so any disruption on cable and sat may be minimized. Here (http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php) is one list of what stations are planning to do.

I'm not 100% sure on the process in NE Ohio, but I believe TWC gets feeds from the actual stations. It's been discussed before on the local HDTV forum(probably wiped out:(). Seems like it would be easier where they are getting digital feeds already. But it will be harder if they're getting it OTA since they'll have to rescan around midnight once any digital channel changes happen. Some areas could see temporary outages on 2/17/09.

I do know that several stations are moving here in Cleveland. WKYC is getting off their cruel placed Digital VHF 2, moving to UHF 17. And it's mind boggling why WJW FOX is moving off UHF 31 back to VHF 8? But it is higher VHF. WOIO CBS is putting out lower power on VHF 10 b/c there's an issue with Canadian channel 10.

This is gonna be interesting. :D

I hope that a direct fiber feed from the stations becomes common for feeding providers especially the sats. If the MPEG4 encoders used for the sat transmission were placed on site sourced from baseband video rather than using OTA I think the quality (for a given bitrate) could be improved. Obviously this wouldn't work with Fox's distribution so that's a moot point. Not that MPEG4 is perfect but re-encoding a low bitrate MPEG2 source is not as good.

I hope that a direct fiber feed from the stations becomes common for feeding providers especially the sats. If the MPEG4 encoders used for the sat transmission were placed on site sourced from baseband video rather than using OTA I think the quality (for a given bitrate) could be improved. Obviously this wouldn't work with Fox's distribution so that's a moot point. Not that MPEG4 is perfect but re-encoding a low bitrate MPEG2 source is not as good.

D* and E* have ben turn off the fiber feeds to all but the top market stations as a cost cutting move. My market direct fed from 1998 until 2006 when D* pulled them to put in a central receiving station to save money. The same thing has happened in other markets right up to the Top 10.

D* and E* have gone in together to put in combined central receiving stations in the markets they have LIL with digital OTA receivers for the SD feeds and have started changing them over in preparation of the transition.

I hope that a direct fiber feed from the stations becomes common for feeding providers especially the sats. If the MPEG4 encoders used for the sat transmission were placed on site sourced from baseband video rather than using OTA I think the quality (for a given bitrate) could be improved. Obviously this wouldn't work with Fox's distribution so that's a moot point. Not that MPEG4 is perfect but re-encoding a low bitrate MPEG2 source is not as good.


I had had a similar hope, but I understand that this is not happening for our market, Sacramento. It looks to be a cost-savings move as foxeng mentioned.

If they were being direct fed with the same encoder as used for the OTA then there wouldn't be a hit in PQ other than reception issues.

Public aware of DTV transition, slow to take action

A new survey from the Association of Public Television Stations (APTS) reveals a mixed bag when it comes to the public’s involvement with the February 2009 digital television transition.

On the one hand, awareness of the impending transition is at an all-time high, according to the study. On the other, many over-the-air (OTA) households are slow to take the necessary steps to continue receiving terrestrial television after the plug is pulled on analog transmitters, the survey found.

As of May 2008, 62 percent of OTA households said they would buy a converter box or digital television, compared to 28 percent in November 2006.

However, the study found that most of the 8.8 million OTA households saying they would buy a set-top converter box to continue receiving free OTA television have not done so.

Among all TV households surveyed, 9.2 percent — or 10.3 million households — said they requested a coupon. Of those requesting a coupon, 64.4 percent said they received the coupon and 54.2 percent had redeemed the coupon. Roughly 38 percent of those who redeemed the coupon reported installing the converter box.

About 70 percent of OTA households said they know what they need to do to continue to view television after the transition.

The APTS study also found that as the transition date nears, fewer OTA consumers said they would sign up for cable, satellite or telecommunications service to receive digital television, while more are inclined to buy a converter box or digital TV set. Those that said they would sign up for a paid service had dropped from 29 percent in November 2006 to 12 percent in May 2008.

The study results are based on a May-June 2008 survey of 1439 households conducted by research firm CENTRIS in Fort Washington, PA.

For more information, visit www.apts.org.

http://broadcastengineering.com/eng/public-aware-dtv-transition-slow-action-0813/

I know that date isn't that big of a deal for people who actually like tv, since most of us have decent tv's by now, but I'm more worried about local stations. I'm not talking about lack of HD news either. I'm more worried about syndication to sports/news/event pre-emptying. None of my local stations have the storage facilities to house HD programming. So anything syndicated or delays is aired later in poor quality SD. Whenever our local FOX had to delay American Idol I wanted to cry. I'm starting to think it's gonna be 2 years before I can see shows like Wheel of Fortune, Price is Right, or Ellen in HD.

I know that date isn't that big of a deal for people who actually like tv, since most of us have decent tv's by now, but I'm more worried about local stations. I'm not talking about lack of HD news either. I'm more worried about syndication to sports/news/event pre-emptying. None of my local stations have the storage facilities to house HD programming. So anything syndicated or delays is aired later in poor quality SD. Whenever our local FOX had to delay American Idol I wanted to cry. I'm starting to think it's gonna be 2 years before I can see shows like Wheel of Fortune, Price is Right, or Ellen in HD.

Shows will still be in SD even after the transition. It's only a DIGITAL transition. HDTV is not required. Most affiliates will continue the same practices as now. Except PQ should improve on SD upconverts since the analog feeds will be eliminated. Delayed network programming will most likely stay SD. Syndicated HD shows will only be HD if the local station makes upgrades to record/save HDTV.

Shows will still be in SD even after the transition. It's only a DIGITAL transition. HDTV is not required. Most affiliates will continue the same practices as now. Except PQ should improve on SD upconverts since the analog feeds will be eliminated. Delayed network programming will most likely stay SD. Syndicated HD shows will only be HD if the local station makes upgrades to record/save HDTV.

Although analog composite feeds are becoming fewer and fewer, there's no reason to believe 2/17/09 will have any impact on those that remain as of that date. Satellite distributors are converting to digital to make more efficient use of available bandwith, but they will not be required to cease operating in that mode by any current regulations.

I believe one of the reasons that OTA households are slow in buying converter boxes is that the event on 17 Feb 2009 is misnamed. All the announcements say TV is converting to digital on 17 Feb 2009. Actually TV has already converted to digital. What is happening on 17 Feb 2009 is that the analog channels are being shut off.

The difference is significant. It is not obvious from the announcements that a converter box is currently useful. Hense, the slow response to converter box purchases.

Rick R

I believe one of the reasons that OTA households are slow in buying converter boxes is that the event on 17 Feb 2009 is misnamed. All the announcements say TV is converting to digital on 17 Feb 2009. Actually TV has already converted to digital. What is happening on 17 Feb 2009 is that the analog channels are being shut off.

The difference is significant. It is not obvious from the announcements that a converter box is currently useful. Hense, the slow response to converter box purchases.

Rick R
That's actually a good point.

There seems to be a whole lot of warning that the analog signals will be going away, but not much mention of the fact that people can watch digital television RIGHT NOW.

I'd bet a lot people affected by the transition don't realize they don't have to wait until next February to make use of those boxes. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't realize there's no "magic switch" taking place other than the one that places analog in the "off" position.

I believe one of the reasons that OTA households are slow in buying converter boxes is that the event on 17 Feb 2009 is misnamed. All the announcements say TV is converting to digital on 17 Feb 2009. Actually TV has already converted to digital. What is happening on 17 Feb 2009 is that the analog channels are being shut off.

The difference is significant. It is not obvious from the announcements that a converter box is currently useful. Hense, the slow response to converter box purchases.

Rick R

Yeah, I've been thinking along those lines the last few days, everyone keeps calling February 17, 2009 the "digital transition." Nope, a transition is something that takes some amount of time, we have been IN the digital transition for nearly 10 years now, Feb. 17 is the analog cutoff date, technically, the END of the transition. It's just semantics I know, but something I've been thinking about. :)

Delayed network programming will most likely stay SD. Syndicated HD shows will only be HD if the local station makes upgrades to record/save HDTV.

I am hoping that stations take all the money they save by not having to power two transmitters (analog and digital) and invest in HD servers for recording and playing back HD material, including syndicated shows.

Yeah, I've been thinking along those lines the last few days, everyone keeps calling February 17, 2009 the "digital transition." Nope, a transition is something that takes some amount of time, we have been IN the digital transition for nearly 10 years now, Feb. 17 is the analog cutoff date, technically, the END of the transition. It's just semantics I know, but something I've been thinking about. :)

That is true, but you know when that day comes there will be many people putting their fist to the tv wondering why the dang thing aint working no more and acting like they were just blindsided by a freight train regardless of how long this transistion thing has been going on!

Of course there will. And I expect cable "news" to take advantage of this. Probably local as well. There will be reporters stationed to "get public opinion"(read: the unwashed masses) on the DTV switch. We can expect alot of nonsesne and bulls... like "the goverment has no right to take away my TV" and "digital TV is another way to keep the poor man down". Even though the government DOES have the right to regulate how TV signals are broadcast AND they have made converter box coupons available. $40 coupons that make the least expensive box cost around $10.

No one is predicting the Star-Spangled Banner?

Digital is the work of Satan

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/1502/churchladybc0.jpg

They should play "Sympathy For The Devil"

I'm hoping to read a story about how some loner in the hills turns on his TV, sees all the channels are gone, and assumes the country has been taken over by Communists or aliens from Mars, or some other unlikely disaster has taken place. He'll probably assume the people on his CB radio are all disinformation agents as he rides his pick-up into town to figure out what's going on.

I'm hoping to read a story about how some loner in the hills turns on his TV, sees all the channels are gone, and assumes the country has been taken over by Communists or aliens from Mars, or some other unlikely disaster has taken place. He'll probably assume the people on his CB radio are all disinformation agents as he rides his pick-up into town to figure out what's going on.
You almost had it right: he won't dare go into town. He'll hunker down in his bunker eating canned beans and instant coffee while guarding the entrance with a 12 gauge.

He'll be thinking, "all those suckers down there that didn't prepare for this event must be jealous of me now..." ;)

You almost had it right: he won't dare go into town. He'll hunker down in his bunker eating canned beans and instant coffee while guarding the entrance with a 12 gauge.

No, the guy has already been doing that for years. That's why he's up there right now watching the free world collapse on his TV set.

The Olympics are being held in Red China, a country we were at war with fifty years ago! Russia just invaded another neighboring country! Pull the plug on his analog stations right now and heaven only knows what that will mean to him! :)

His belief that his country has been taken over is further reinforced by his discovery of weak stations on UHF with people speaking in some foreign language.

His belief that his country has been taken over is further reinforced by his discovery of weak stations on UHF with people speaking in some foreign language.

My God! You have ME believing it now! :D

My God! You have ME believing it now! :D

What if he tunes to channel 2 and receives weak Mexican stations he's never seen before? He could only conclude that the new President has returned the land we got in the Mexican war, just like Carter did with the Panama Canal! :eek:

No one is predicting the Star-Spangled Banner?

Like the idea :thumbs up

I hope that a direct fiber feed from the stations becomes common for feeding providers especially the sats. If the MPEG4 encoders used for the sat transmission were placed on site sourced from baseband video rather than using OTA I think the quality (for a given bitrate) could be improved. Obviously this wouldn't work with Fox's distribution so that's a moot point. Not that MPEG4 is perfect but re-encoding a low bitrate MPEG2 source is not as good.

Doesn't local encoding mean you can't statmux effectively? I guess if you are carrying a number of local stations affiliated to the same network on a common transponder then statmuxing may be of little benefit - but then if you are statmuxing local ABC,CBS and NBC stations together (which also has the benefits of quick channel change between stations) there would be? AIUI statmuxing still requires co-sited encoders?

The BBC currently MPEG2 encode their regional variants for satellite uplink at the regional centre (meaning they only have to backhaul the compressed version) and don't statmux. However they are replacing their infrastructure to allow the local stations to feed back to London at 270Mbs SD uncompressed, for encoding for both OTA and satellite in London (and statmuxing)

Doesn't local encoding mean you can't statmux effectively? From Tandberg:

"Reflex technology combined with the iSIS 8000 solution enables encoders located over a Wide Area Network to be grouped as part of a Reflex statistical multiplex. With remote encoding the contributing feeds do not require a decode/recode process, retaining the original picture quality"

Seems this is oriented to IP-based cable systems but could it be used for multi-channel backhauls?

From Tandberg:

"Reflex technology combined with the iSIS 8000 solution enables encoders located over a Wide Area Network to be grouped as part of a Reflex statistical multiplex. With remote encoding the contributing feeds do not require a decode/recode process, retaining the original picture quality"

Seems this is oriented to IP-based cable systems but could it be used for multi-channel backhauls?

Ah - was wondering why this wasn't possible!

So effectively you are able to link remote encoders via a WAN to allow them to talk to each other and agree bandwith sharing. If that can be implemented that would be very clever - then you'd just need an encoder per platform to be sited at each station, coupled with suitable connectivity to an uplink position?