Here is a great link to share, if you are bulding a dedicated home theater this is it :D

http://www.cedia.net/awards/industry_recognition07.php

The Level VII Cool Jazz HT is awesome but then at the cost it had better be .

- Jason

You guys are looking around the world for what is right under your nose :). Take a look at Ash Sharma's theater, a member who post right on this forum. http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/24665/ppuser/273 Best looking with the best gear, IMO.

I have seen Mr. Sharma's HT many times already and even though it is very impressive and certainly nicer than anything I will ever own in my lifetime it's a bit too old fashioned looking for my tastes ;) .

- Jason

Not sure for sure but those look like Behringer DEQ2496 EQ in the rack?
http://www.cedia.net/awards/2007_awards/images/LHT07d.jpg

I’m almost willing to bet someone can make a skyline diffuser at next to nothing cost. I had a few ideas myself to use (balsa wood) from a model shop.
http://www.cedia.net/awards/2007_awards/images/LHT07a.jpg

:cool:
I think this is the best home theater I have ever seen, good size, no distracting elements, and good gear, and dark, the way a theater should be.

Mark is also one of our members: Mark H
Bommer



http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/22318/size/big/ppuser/14598

Yes Yes ! Mark's HT is my inspiration for our next house with dedicated bat cave HT . His HT is one of my all time favorites and even though it is a bat cave I think it is stunning :D .

- Jason

:cool:
I think this is the best home theater I have ever seen, good size, no distracting elements, and good gear, and dark, the way a theater should be.

Mark is also one of our members: Mark H
Bommer



http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/22318/size/big/ppuser/14598

Yes I agree, one of the best looking theaters. No gear visible ,not pretentious or ornate but performance driven.

Art

Look at Art's theater. I'm not blowing smoke up his ass either...... My theater is very slick but every time I hit Art's place, I get lost in the audio and video presentation. About as good as it gets ( and I haven't seen his latest editions).

]

I’m almost willing to bet someone can make a skyline diffuser at next to nothing cost. I had a few ideas myself to use (balsa wood) from a model shop.
http://www.cedia.net/awards/2007_awards/images/LHT07a.jpg

You can make that type of diffuser but to duplicate the Skyline would take a lot of time. The protrusion vary considerably. Just painting a Skyline is very difficult. It takes me about 30 to 45 min and I've painted about 20 so far and have about 30 diffusers in my room. They look very simple but trust me they are not. This guy makes a diffusser that I like http://www.waveguideacousticsolutions.com/about.html and that gives the room a more balanced sound than the Skylines. His diffusers are 9 inches deep and use larger protrusions. The Skylines seems to do a better job with higher frequencies. Still, I do a lot of DIY stuff. Making an exact clone of an RPG Skylines is something that definetly is not worth my time. At first glance the waveguide stuff my look very similiar to a Skyline but the Skyline is much more intricate.

I have seen Mr. Sharma's HT many times already and even though it is very impressive and certainly nicer than anything I will ever own in my lifetime it's a bit too old fashioned looking for my tastes ;) .

- Jason

There are a lot of pretty theaters and some that I may like the look of slightly better. However I look deeper. I look for room acoustics, aesthetics, and electronics. You have to look past just the surround processor as well. There are lots of pretty rooms with expensive surround processors and then that is were the "all show and no go' takes over . A lot of those rooms just don't have the "gear" that one has. For example, Aerial 20ts across the front with Theta Citadel monoblocks. That gear alone eats most of the budgets of some of the favs. That's world class gear first, with world class looks too. Still it's a matter of personal preference and there is no right or wrong choice. For the total package,that room is hard to beat.

There are a lot of pretty theaters and some that I may like the look of slightly better. However I look deeper. I look for room acoustics, aesthetics, and electronics. You have to look past just the surround processor as well. There are lots of pretty rooms with expensive surround processors and then that is were the "all show and no go' takes over . A lot of those rooms just don't have the "gear" that one has. For example, Aerial 20ts across the front with Theta Citadel monoblocks. That gear alone eats most of the budgets of some of the favs. That's world class gear first, with world class looks too. Still it's a matter of personal preference and there is no right or wrong choice. For the total package,that room is hard to beat.

Certainly , I was only commenting on the look of the room , the gear in that room is drool worthy ;) .

- Jason

Looks like a very uncomfortable set of chairs up front..at least the sofa in back looks somewhat comfy.

Overall though a very cold and generic looking place for sure...

Not my cup of tea for sure, but I an see why some would dig it.

Not sure for sure but those look like Behringer DEQ2496 EQ in the rack?
http://www.cedia.net/awards/2007_awards/images/LHT07d.jpg

I’m almost willing to bet someone can make a skyline diffuser at next to nothing cost. I had a few ideas myself to use (balsa wood) from a model shop.
http://www.cedia.net/awards/2007_awards/images/LHT07a.jpg

My bathroom is the size of this theater... The acoustics must be amazing, err, amazingly awful. Personally, with that space, I would have adapted a steam room or such..

...I’m almost willing to bet someone can make a skyline diffuser at next to nothing cost. I had a few ideas myself to use (balsa wood) from a model shop.

That much 2"x2"balsa costs a fortune! -Almost as much as purchasing commercial Skylines. I priced Balsa out prior to making my rear wall 2D QRD diffusor and ultimately decided to work with a combination of fir 2"x2" and ripped down 2"x4" material instead. Here is the build thread (http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3327) on the Studiotips site. Have a look at my cut list. My 3'x3' QRD array requires 380 accurately cut blocks. RPG's price for the real deal seemed much more reasonable upon completion of my DIY version! :rolleyes:

BTW- Depending on the listener's distance from the reflective boundary, much simpler to build Poly-cylindrical diffusers can get the job done equally well. I built a bunch o' those too to tame a slap echo problem in my room. Build thread here. (http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3328)

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/VinceHoffman/DSCN4208.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/VinceHoffman/DSCN4219.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/VinceHoffman/DSCN4221.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/VinceHoffman/DSCN4261.jpg

Happy Trails!
Vince@Freewheelcycle.com

You guys are looking around the world for what is right under your nose :). Take a look at Ash Sharma's theater, a member who post right on this forum. http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php/photo/24665/ppuser/273 Best looking with the best gear, IMO.

I think that is Ash's theatre in the level 7 bronze category. I had no idea it cost that much to make something like that. wow. I guess it's mainly the intricate workmanship that costs the big $$$$. Any idea which projector he uses?

Does anyone know id those category price levels include the equipment and all costs put into the room total (architecture, interior design, panelling, speakers, wiring, electrical, etc, etc, etc), or just acoustical design?

My bathroom is the size of this theater... The acoustics must be amazing, err, amazingly awful. Personally, with that space, I would have adapted a steam room or such..

Indeed, concerning the quality of the acoustics, F. Alton Everest states in the Master Handbook of Acoustics that a room smaller than 1500 cubic feet is awful for sound reproduction due to colorations. I can't tell from the picture, but it looks like it might be under 1500 cubic feet...

I guess if you are not concerned with sound quality that is OK, but at the same time, the walls look like they have to be so close to the screen that they likely skew the screen colors as well.

There are a lot of pretty theaters and some that I may like the look of slightly better. However I look deeper. I look for room acoustics, aesthetics, and electronics. You have to look past just the surround processor as well. There are lots of pretty rooms with expensive surround processors and then that is were the "all show and no go' takes over . A lot of those rooms just don't have the "gear" that one has. For example, Aerial 20ts across the front with Theta Citadel monoblocks. That gear alone eats most of the budgets of some of the favs. That's world class gear first, with world class looks too. Still it's a matter of personal preference and there is no right or wrong choice. For the total package,that room is hard to beat.

IMO the projection system is the single most important element in a home theater. The room ,as it augments this is second, followed by the the room acoustics ,followed then by the audio grear. Of course ,if you are a two channel guy, these priorities will be different but for the vast majority of film presentations ,in a home theater environment , the projection system including set up, calibration, screen, processing, and the surroundings are key to getting the best of the best.


There are a few systems here that have great rooms but are simply and crudly put ,second rate in video performance. I don't care how cool the room is or how great the speakers are the best on screen presentation is paramount.

Art

These threads are always fun, and I can appreciate multiple types of theater designs from simple to ornate to modern. But Mark_H's theater remains my personal favorite, and represents for me a total "escape" environment as opposed to "visual feast" for the eyes. I love it.

these threads are always fun, and i can appreciate multiple types of theater designs from simple to ornate to modern. But mark_h's theater remains my personal favorite, and represents for me a total "escape" environment as opposed to "visual feast" for the eyes. I love it.


+1

I think that is Ash's theatre in the level 7 bronze category. I had no idea it cost that much to make something like that. wow. I guess it's mainly the intricate workmanship that costs the big $$$$. Any idea which projector he uses?

I got this list of equipment from Ash's web gallery page:

Equipment List
Sony Qualia Q 004
Stewart Cinecurve 12 foot Grayhawk Micro Perforated 2:35 Automatic AR control
Isco 3 lens
Vision HDP Processor
Aerial LR5’s Front LCR
Aerial SW 12 Front Left and Right Subs
Triad Silvers -6 Speakers for Sorround
2 Triad Bronze subs
Theta CB3
Theta citadels Front 3 channels
Theta Dreadnaught for 6 channels of Surround
Various other Equipment


Speaking of equipment ..... Mr. Poindexter had one heck of an impressive equipment list! :cool:

These threads are always fun, and I can appreciate multiple types of theater designs from simple to ornate to modern. But Mark_H's theater remains my personal favorite, and represents for me a total "escape" environment as opposed to "visual feast" for the eyes. I love it.

Yeah, while I love how some of the other theater's look artistically, I think Mark_H and Art's Theaters are the two that are going to influence my new theater the most, at least in terms of visual aesthetics (black interior's for optimal video, theater seating, 2.35:1 screen size or variable masking, etc). I don't know to what lengths they both went with acoustics, but in my new setup I want to get the best two channel and surround sound performance possible besides visual performance. I also think like Mark Rubin's theater aesthetics as well, but I haven't seen enough pictures of it to make a definitive decision.

I'm pretty depressed that I have to rebuild a new room in a new house, or onto a new house. It is going to be hard to live without a room for awhile and it will be a huge money sink...

Mark_H, Art, and Mark Rubin do you mind sharing who designed your rooms?

imo the projection system is the single most important element in a home theater. The room ,as it augments this is second, followed by the the room acoustics ,followed then by the audio grear.

amen

I got this list of equipment from Ash's web gallery page:

Equipment List
Sony Qualia Q 004
Stewart Cinecurve 12 foot Grayhawk Micro Perforated 2:35 Automatic AR control
Isco 3 lens
Vision HDP Processor
Aerial LR5’s Front LCR
Aerial SW 12 Front Left and Right Subs
Triad Silvers -6 Speakers for Sorround
2 Triad Bronze subs
Theta CB3
Theta citadels Front 3 channels
Theta Dreadnaught for 6 channels of Surround
Various other Equipment


Speaking of equipment ..... Mr. Poindexter had one heck of an impressive equipment list! :cool:

He's upgraded since then.I believe Dennis Erskine, sorry for spelling, did the work?

Yeah, while I love how some of the other theater's look artistically, I think Mark_H and Art's Theaters are the two that are going to influence my new theater the most, at least in terms of visual aesthetics (black interior's for optimal video, theater seating, 2.35:1 screen size or variable masking, etc). I don't know to what lengths they both went with acoustics, but in my new setup I want to get the best two channel and surround sound performance possible besides visual performance.

Mark_H, Art, and Mark Rubin do you mind sharing who designed your rooms?

Late to the party as always. Apologies :D

My cinema was designed and built from scratch within an extension we built to house it. The room interior acoustic structure was designed by acoustics architect industry pro, John Flynn of Acoustic Design Group, UK. John is responsible for some of the leading acoustic spaces around the pro world. John liaised with the architect responsible for the extension to ensure that building was also acoustically well designed and soundproof. He also designed the interior look of the room based on my specifications of "BLACK!" and "No visible structure or distractions between the screen and the seating; the screen should be a window floating in a black void". I believe he *nailed* it. I am thrilled with the look and performance of the room, but also humbled that you guys seem to like it too.

The interior project was designed and implemented in about 9 months and cost a fraction of some of the figures you see for many of the glossy magazine "high-end" implementations...

For the record, Art's room and passion were my inspiration.

Cheers,

Mark

IMO the projection system is the single most important element in a home theater. The room ,as it augments this is second, followed by the the room acoustics ,followed then by the audio grear. Of course ,if you are a two channel guy,
Art

All are equal. You can not compromise any element. If you compromise room acoustics and audio gear, then that's a real compromise.Then you just have a great picture and crappy sound. You can have both a great picture and great sound.

That much 2"x2"balsa costs a fortune! -Almost as much as purchasing commercial Skylines. I priced Balsa out prior to making my rear wall 2D QRD diffusor and ultimately decided to work with a combination of fir 2"x2" and ripped down 2"x4" material instead. Here is the build thread (http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3327) on the Studiotips site. Have a look at my cut list. My 3'x3' QRD array requires 380 accurately cut blocks. RPG's price for the real deal seemed much more reasonable upon completion of my DIY version! :rolleyes:

BTW- Depending on the listener's distance from the reflective boundary, much simpler to build Poly-cylindrical diffusers can get the job done equally well. I built a bunch o' those too to tame a slap echo problem in my room. Build thread here. (http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3328)

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/VinceHoffman/DSCN4208.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/VinceHoffman/DSCN4219.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/VinceHoffman/DSCN4221.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/VinceHoffman/DSCN4261.jpg

Happy Trails!
Vince@Freewheelcycle.com

WOW, Vince. That's great work!

T
BTW- Depending on the listener's distance from the reflective boundary, much simpler to build Poly-cylindrical diffusers can get the job done equally well. I built a bunch o' those too to tame a slap echo problem in my room. Build thread here. (http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3328)




Yes. Poly's are a great DIY alternative for diffusion. As you indicated, they're more desirable in a large space. But they're effective across a broad frequency range, and to many are more aesthetically pleasing than Skylines.

I liked the cardboard templates. I would think you could even use cardboard to test the effects before actually making more permanent structures. Vince, did you find this to be the case?

Mark_H, Art, and Mark Rubin do you mind sharing who designed your rooms?

My room was designed by Dennis Erskine. I gave him a list of something like fifteen things that I wanted in the design and he sent back pretty much what you see after a few revisions. I love that place.:D

It was built by David Norris.

Art

All are equal. You can not compromise any element. If you compromise room acoustics and audio gear, then that's a real compromise.Then you just have a great picture and crappy sound. You can have both a great picture and great sound.

I agree Bulldogger. I've found through the years that every component is important. Because it all affects the final outcome to some degree or another.

He's upgraded since then.I believe Dennis Erskine, sorry for spelling, did the work?

I think you are referring to the Aerial Acoustics 20T front array LCR. That has to be one of the best front arrays in any home theatre. I'm a big fan of Aerial sound. I remember that there was a discussion that you can't buy the 20T in individual pieces so you have to buy 2 pairs and keep one as a spare!

Yes, I believe Dennis Erskine did the work on Ash's cinema giving the cinema the look and feel that was requested.

All are equal. You can not compromise any element. If you compromise room acoustics and audio gear, then that's a real compromise.Then you just have a great picture and crappy sound. You can have both a great picture and great sound.

I have to agree with that. I'm fussy about the video and audio quality but I bet I'm nowhere near as fussy about the video as Art and some others. Audio is another story. That's why most of my budget has been spent on the audio side of things.

I bought the calibrated Black Pearl with the idea it would be an "interim" solution until everything in the room had been sorted out, tweaked, etc.... It's not a huge screen at 100 inches wide 2:37. I must say though that I have no inclination to replace the Black Pearl anytime soon since it does such a fabulous job in my light-controlled space. Something like an HT5000 would just blast the back wall out with it's light output. I'm sure the picture could look better but not by as much as the price difference would suggest.

A balanced ht room has to have all elements accounted for imho, but there can't be any significant weaknesses in it for it to be considered excellent.

Mark H's room is definitely one of my favs for ht but I wouldn't like it as an audio room b/c of the colour choices, even though the acoustics are probably quite good.

Thanks for your comments on my theater, the latest equipment is as follows:
The room was built from ground up by Dennis Erskine on a Turnkey basis.
No expense was spared to ensure the acoustic capabilities of the room and it is essentially separated from the rest of the house.
The noise rating of the room is 20 and it is silent as even the HVAC was designed to run dead quiet.
All materials used were non reflective including the paint which is light absorbing. The room is totally dark when lights are off.
We were able to achieve aesthetics without compromising technical excellence for video and audio.
Equipment As of May 2008
Video –
Sony Qualia 004
Long throw lens
ISCO 3
Lumagen Radiance XD Scaler

Audio –
Speakers – Three Aerial 20T’s L/C/R (Version 2)
6 TRIAD Gold Inwalls For Side and rear sorround
Two Aerial SW 12 Subs
Two Triad Bronze In Wall Subs
Three Theta Citadel 1.5 One Each To Power L/C/R
One Theta Dradnaught – 5 Channel
Theta Casablanca 3 with three Extreme Dac cards total 12 channels.
QSC DSP 8

Screen:
Stewart Custom Cinecurve Motorized Side Masking 144Inch Wide 2:35 Aspect ratio Firehawk Microperf With Electronic Control System

Video Players:
Denon 3800 BDCIBlu Ray player
Toshiba XA 2 HD DVD Player
Direct TV Pro 21
Tivo HD Series 3
Niveus Pro N Htpc

Audio Players
ADA Sirius (Playback From Crestron Control)
Transporter Media Player To Play FLAC music – interface is available on Crestron Panel
Net gear Infrantic Rack Mounted NAS 1100 2 Terrabyte

Power:
Richard Grey Power House Balanced 240V Step Down Transformer
Remote: Crestron STX AV2 Pack – Two Way Full Control System With STX 1700C
Seating : Eight Motorized Premiere Marquee Recliners

Others
Mid Atlantic Rack System
Motorized Stage Curtains
Lutron Grafik eye System
Cooling System for projector.
Professional Calibration for both audio and Video…. I do not want to elaborate on much on this as calibration is both art and science It is like cooking. . . . . .…depends on the chef (some like spicy and some don’t) but the room sounds the best it can. The person who calibrated the 20’Ts first time they were installed is a professional in the industry for 30 years and has calibrated some of the largest and exclusive rooms in the country. When he calibrated the room for sound he had tears in his eyes told me that he has heard nothing like this in his career. We achieved these acoustic virtues with a combination of room design in which Dennis got people at Dolby Labs involved, the equipment and the calibration. The room has since then gone through another calibration by Jim Harbor who is the ‘chef’ I prefer.

I do not feel the video in my room is as good as it can be…. Considering the advances in technology . . . but I have been looking for a projector since last two years but did not find anything worthy…. I am hoping that this CEDIA I will be able to find what I can replace the Qualia with.
With regards to the room being ornate, it is a personal choice…. Is it possible for a room to be a ‘Near’ bat cave when the lights go down? I believe that this can be achieved by using non reflective paint (Dennis’s secret recipe) and appropriate materials. I will let Dennis answer this.
The cost, we added 700 square feet to the house, and since it was turnkey, almost everyone involved in the project was from out of town (except the artist who painted the gold leaf work) which added to the cost. I could justify paying a expert ‘Dennis’ to do it turnkey as my time is more worth doing what my profession is…. Besides, the room won Bronze in Cedia and I bet entries which won Gold and silver spent way much more money than we did. The room also won Electronic house best home theater gold 2008 in above 250k and above category. I am sure I can recoup my investment my investment when I sell the home (although I do not intend to do this for many more years)......
Apologize for the long post. . .
Ash

Mark H's room is definitely one of my favs for ht but I wouldn't like it as an audio room b/c of the colour choices, even though the acoustics are probably quite good.

If you are a fan of listening to music with your eyes shut, as I am, you will love my room as even with your eyes wide open there is a total and absolute absence of light in the room leaving you floating in the music - this works particularly well with surround material. Room colour thus becomes irrelevant.

Mark

In my opinion the only forum members that have proper video are Odyssey and Wolfgang. Period. It is sad and particularly recent experiments with the Titan Reference hoping to approximate DCI performance but the Delta in Picture quality is just too way too much. The colors, the pixel grittiness, the MTF, the MTF (that 70mm look to the presentation).

I really share your sentiments to see something at CEDIA that approximates the DCI experience (or better said the high contrast modded Barcos which is what I am familiar).

I will be very candid at CEDIA if I find something comparable to DCI and will be the first to whisper as sigh of relief. But the fact of the matter is that the road to ultimate image quality is a difficult one and one requiring NEW DISCIPLINES in the video projection field BEYOND THE SCOPE OF UNDERSTANDING OF CEDIA experts and expensive color calibrating equipment to boot.

Yes. Poly's are a great DIY alternative for diffusion. As you indicated, they're more desirable in a large space. But they're effective across a broad frequency range, and to many are more aesthetically pleasing than Skylines...

I love the architectural look of my Polys and acoustically they accomplish precisely what I'd hoped. I'd have stuck to Polys throughout if it weren't for the rear wall immediately behing the listening seat being only 5' away. A Poly requires more room than a 2D QRD to get the job done due to their differing principals of operation.

That being said, I also thought the miniature cityscape of my naked DIY Skyline array looked amazing. It was a real shame to have to hide all that work! Unfortunately there was simply no practical way to finish the exposed array to the same standard as the rest of my room. Finish sanding almost 400 little blocks of wood then attempting to achieve an acceptable sprayed finish would have tripled the man-hours. Hence my decision to frame the QRD array and cover it in GoM. FWIW, if I was to work with Skylines again, I'd likely purchase RPG's commercial product and experiment with both damping materials in the rear cavity and spray applied paint finishes. I enjoyed the DIY Skyline project but ultimately felt it was too time intensive even for the fabric framed raw version. Like building DIY Tube Traps, DIY Skylines only seem like a good idea. Achieving a truly professional appearance when DIYing either is extremely labor intensive. On the other hand, it is quite easy to achieve both a professional appearance and commercial equivalent or better measured performance with DIY Polys, broad band wall panels, and Studiotip Superchunk bass traps.

...I liked the cardboard templates. I would think you could even use cardboard to test the effects before actually making more permanent structures. Vince, did you find this to be the case?

Doooh! It didn't occur to me to try that. As my Poly arrays featured multiples of identically dimensioned elements, I only made one template for each size.

Happy Trails!
Vince@Freewheelcycle.com

In my opinion the only forum members that have proper video are Odyssey and Wolfgang. Period.

Define proper in the context of available consumer sources...

Mark

In my opinion the only forum members that have proper video are Odyssey and Wolfgang.

Peter, now your just being silly. As you know, Ive been using DCI recently.

I am acutely aware of the advantages of a FULL DCI system...........not just the hardware. Without software content its very much just another projector.:D

I am almost certain to install a DCI machine myself, but I just cant agree with your statement.

FOR BLUE RAY PLAYBACK ALONE, a high contrast modded 4k-1, 5k-1 (soon 6k-1 as soon as the German Optical Coating shops get off vacation). I KID YOU NOT. A modifed DCI projector will cream anything in it's path by a HUGE factor. There is no way I can look at the best current consumer dlp (The Titan Reference with 6k:1o/o, 3,000 ansi lumens, color correction filter d65 rec 709) and say as good as the image is "This looks like 70 mm to me", it does not. Whereas the projector at Helene does just that, every time. Let's not even mention that the biggest name in movie Industry bought two of these, I suspect for a reason.

There is something to be said for watching CINEMASCOPE BLUE RAY in one of these units that is not remotely approachable WHILST "to the contrary" supported by the specs of the high end home 3 chippers. In other words the specs say one thing and the experience says something wholly other.

CM you have been playing with 2k-1 DCI and sources, not the contrast enhanced version of it, so has Wolfgang, I believe both would see the advantages of the mods.

I do not see a craving need for ANYTHING BETTER than Blue Ray for the enjoyment of these hacked DCI projectors, you shoot the colors at DCI spoec and just specify a color file for Rec 709 and voila the most perfect D65 color the lot of yous have never seen, except Wolfgang, Odyssey and CM (but did you see Rec 709?).

These projectors require Air Handling Systems, they put out copious amounts of hot air, they do not come with a remote control, there is very little support from the vendor if you want to do a Crestron AMX rs-232 control, you have to dig deep, some have taken the quick shortcut and set up everything in macros then trigger the macros via digital i/o ports (Glorified Contact Closures -Oy ve!). They are big and bulky and unwieldy to install in condominiums, the lamps are explosive and require excellent handywork in installation plus a Haz Mat suit.

In other words if the projector costs 100 you must allot 25 to the siting , ventilation, control system and professional installation. The more constricted the light path prepare to have increased levels of complexity and dexterity in the installation.

Bottom line there are no free lunches in high end home theater. But once done properly and after serious attention to detail to each and every one of those areas I have laid down there is after all a way to recreate 70 mm CINEMASCOPE with Blue Ray. That can easily be proven.

I do not see a craving need for ANYTHING BETTER...
And here I thought you were a home theater rock star, the DaVinci of theater design. Yet you don't even see a need for anything better. No true visionary would make that statement. This is clear evidence that you are a pretender, a wannabe, a poseur. I shall have to turn my attention to those with higher aspirations.

Well is suppose 70mm Cinemascope can be improved upon. 3-D comes to mind.

FOR BLUE RAY PLAYBACK ALONE, a high contrast modded 4k-1, 5k-1 (soon 6k-1 as soon as the German Optical Coating shops get off vacation). I KID YOU NOT. A modifed DCI projector will cream anything in it's path by a HUGE factor. There is no way I can look at the best current consumer dlp (The Titan Reference with 6k:1 3,oo ansi, color correction filter d65 rec 709) and say as good as the image is "This looks like 70 mm to me", it does not. Whereas the projector at Helene does just that, every time. Let's not even mention that the biggest name in movie history bought two of these, I suspect for a reason.

There is something to be said for watching CINEMASCOPE BLUE RAY in one of these units that is not remotely approachable WHILST supported by the specs of the high end home 3 chippers. In other words the specs say one thing and the experience says something wholly other.

CM you have been playing with 2k-1 DCI and sources, not the contrast enhanced version of it, so has Wolfgang, I believe both would see the advantages of the mods.

I do not see a craving need for ANYTHING BETTER than Blue Ray for the enjoyment of these hacked DCI projectors, you shoot the colors at DCI spoec and just specify a color file for Rec 709 and voila the most perfect D65 color the lot of yous have never seen, except Wolfgang, Odyssey and CM (but did you see Rec 709?).

There is no doubt in my mind, nor could there be, that a DCI machine in a domestic setup is the current ultimate presentation solution. I agree with you on that. The machine I saw was 4k-1, if you are able to push that to 6k that would be outstanding

I have seen a number of sources, including Blu Ray at rec 709 and it is very impressive, but be assured the full enchilada is something else again. Make no mistake a Digital Cinema Package (DCP) is significantly better than Blu Ray.

"Day and Date" is how the big dogs roll.:D

I have a feeling that after CEDIA Blu-ray will no longer be the HT content king;)

if you are able to push that to 6k that would be outstanding.



"Day and Date" is how the big dogs roll.:D

Most certainly can get it in the range of 5,600-6200-1 that is the target range.

Will report once it is accomplished.

Yes I know how the big dogs roll, but if you can't have it on your own at least you can provide the service of mounting and dismounting these feature films for the Big Dog's homes. That would be a second best and certainly put me in contact with the right people in the hopes to eventually have day and date myself.

I have a feeling that after CEDIA Blu-ray will no longer be the HT content king;)

The more the reason for a SuperKontrast.

first

First, that is right.? The more the reason for a SuperKontrast first.

Sell the wilsons, sell the bentley's and ferrari's, sell everything else and start anew.:D

If you are a fan of listening to music with your eyes shut, as I am, you will love my room as even with your eyes wide open there is a total and absolute absence of light in the room leaving you floating in the music - this works particularly well with surround material. Room colour thus becomes irrelevant.

Mark

Hi Mark, I prefer the lights on and some surrounding "scenery" most of the time. I also like to have my cd player close at hand so it's not hidden like yours probably is. Your room would probably be the one to change my listening habits. Bravo on a fabulous system. If I lived in the UK I'd be pestering you for a demo! :)

Hi Ash, congrats on a fabulous looking and performing room. Just like you, I spent a lot of money on the front 3 speakers. I didn't even try hiding them in the walls or behind a screen. Your pics show a superb stealth install, how did you get the Aerial 20s to "work" well close to the wall? Do they have boundary compensation switches like the LR5s etc..? Do you use eq on them for boundary compensation and adjustment? Did you have them positioned and adjusted before deciding on how and where to mount the screen?

I'm just wondering about this because it's fussy and time-consuming to optimize high-performance speakers in a room with no position constraints, and it must have been difficult to get them at their best within the constraint of having them not visible.

Thanks for your comments on my theater, the latest equipment is as follows:
The room was built from ground up by Dennis Erskine on a Turnkey basis.
No expense was spared to ensure the acoustic capabilities of the room and it is essentially separated from the rest of the house.
The noise rating of the room is 20 and it is silent as even the HVAC was designed to run dead quiet.
All materials used were non reflective including the paint which is light absorbing. The room is totally dark when lights are off.
We were able to achieve aesthetics without compromising technical excellence for video and audio.
Equipment As of May 2008
Video –
Sony Qualia 004
Long throw lens
ISCO 3
Lumagen Radiance XD Scaler

Audio –
Speakers – Three Aerial 20T’s L/C/R (Version 2)
6 TRIAD Gold Inwalls For Side and rear sorround
Two Aerial SW 12 Subs
Two Triad Bronze In Wall Subs
Three Theta Citadel 1.5 One Each To Power L/C/R
One Theta Dradnaught – 5 Channel
Theta Casablanca 3 with three Extreme Dac cards total 12 channels.
QSC DSP 8

Screen:
Stewart Custom Cinecurve Motorized Side Masking 144Inch Wide 2:35 Aspect ratio Firehawk Microperf With Electronic Control System

Video Players:
Denon 3800 BDCIBlu Ray player
Toshiba XA 2 HD DVD Player
Direct TV Pro 21
Tivo HD Series 3
Niveus Pro N Htpc

Audio Players
ADA Sirius (Playback From Crestron Control)
Transporter Media Player To Play FLAC music – interface is available on Crestron Panel
Net gear Infrantic Rack Mounted NAS 1100 2 Terrabyte

Power:
Richard Grey Power House Balanced 240V Step Down Transformer
Remote: Crestron STX AV2 Pack – Two Way Full Control System With STX 1700C
Seating : Eight Motorized Premiere Marquee Recliners

Others
Mid Atlantic Rack System
Motorized Stage Curtains
Lutron Grafik eye System
Cooling System for projector.
Professional Calibration for both audio and Video…. I do not want to elaborate on much on this as calibration is both art and science It is like cooking. . . . . .…depends on the chef (some like spicy and some don’t) but the room sounds the best it can. The person who calibrated the 20’Ts first time they were installed is a professional in the industry for 30 years and has calibrated some of the largest and exclusive rooms in the country. When he calibrated the room for sound he had tears in his eyes told me that he has heard nothing like this in his career. We achieved these acoustic virtues with a combination of room design in which Dennis got people at Dolby Labs involved, the equipment and the calibration. The room has since then gone through another calibration by Jim Harbor who is the ‘chef’ I prefer.

I do not feel the video in my room is as good as it can be…. Considering the advances in technology . . . but I have been looking for a projector since last two years but did not find anything worthy…. I am hoping that this CEDIA I will be able to find what I can replace the Qualia with.
With regards to the room being ornate, it is a personal choice…. Is it possible for a room to be a ‘Near’ bat cave when the lights go down? I believe that this can be achieved by using non reflective paint (Dennis’s secret recipe) and appropriate materials. I will let Dennis answer this.
The cost, we added 700 square feet to the house, and since it was turnkey, almost everyone involved in the project was from out of town (except the artist who painted the gold leaf work) which added to the cost. I could justify paying a expert ‘Dennis’ to do it turnkey as my time is more worth doing what my profession is…. Besides, the room won Bronze in Cedia and I bet entries which won Gold and silver spent way much more money than we did. The room also won Electronic house best home theater gold 2008 in above 250k and above category. I am sure I can recoup my investment my investment when I sell the home (although I do not intend to do this for many more years)......
Apologize for the long post. . .
Ash

Most certainly can get it in the range of 5,600-6200-1 that is the target range.

Will report once it is accomplished.

Yes I know how the big dogs roll, but if you can't have it on your own at least you can provide the service of mounting and dismounting these feature films for the Big Dog's homes. That would be a second best and certainly put me in contact with the right people in the hopes to eventually have day and date myself.

I look forward to hearing about it.

I think one of the great things with DCI machines, and I'm over simplifying here, is that they have the optics (MTF) etc to produce a sharp image at 40ft wide, when that is zoomed down andshown on a small 12ft screen the clarity is incredible.

Couple that with a DCP at 10 times the data rate of Blu Ray, the incredible color and "S" shaped gamma curves and you have an image to die for.

The one I've been using was fully Crestron integrated and worked exactly the same as a domestic PJ, as you know thats no small feat. Integrating the DCI machine into Crestron required an independent programmer and took a long time as its very different from a straight HT PJ via 232. That adds to the cost too, and thats assuming you can even find a guy with the chops to do it in the first place.

We are already scratching 5k-1, next month we will implement the SK MKIII mod that will take it 12-15% higher.

I am glad you finally are beginning to see the light. It is Ironic but Wolfgang's political correctness with all vendors is biasing his opinion against the barco a bit, and I think that has been a major disservice to the videophile community in general which really needs to embrace this approach. He really needed to express the beauty of this projector in better terms cause he makes it sound like the Christie 10k is a valid alternative which is not.

The Bogg’,
Thanks for the compliments….
The 20’s replaced the LR5’s which were originally installed behind the screen..….
I looked at a number of speakers before selecting the 20 T’ s. . . .
The reason why they worked out, apart from being great sounding Ribbon speakers were:
1. I have about 5 feet deep space available behind the screen. . . .
2. The wall behind the screen is exceptionally well treated….
3. The 20 t’s have air ports ‘Under’ the speaker so they can be placed closer to the rear walls….
4. The height of the woofers are such that they start just above the screen frame (this was by luck).
5. The dispersion of ribbons in 20’s is very broad horizontally but very less vertically which works out perfect in a HT environment.
6. Great care was taken in positioning the speakers behind the screen.
Ash

The Bogg’,
Thanks for the compliments….
The 20’s replaced the LR5’s which were originally installed behind the screen..….
I looked at a number of speakers before selecting the 20 T’ s. . . .
The reason why they worked out, apart from being great sounding Ribbon speakers were:
1. I have about 5 feet deep space available behind the screen. . . .
2. The wall behind the screen is exceptionally well treated….
3. The 20 t’s have air ports ‘Under’ the speaker so they can be placed closer to the rear walls….
4. The height of the woofers are such that they start just above the screen frame (this was by luck).
5. The dispersion of ribbons in 20’s is very broad horizontally but very less vertically which works out perfect in a HT environment.
6. Great care was taken in positioning the speakers behind the screen.
Ash

Ooooh, 5 feet behind the screen to play with was a great move. What are your room dimensions?

Ooooh, 5 feet behind the screen to play with was a great move. What are your room dimensions?

But that's five feet lost to the room...

In my room the screen is housed on a retractable sliding rail system - I can pull the entire 15' wide screen away from the front wall allowing me access behind. The upshot is that the loss of room to the behind-the-screen stuff is minimized...

Mark

Bogg,
Room Dimensions from Engineering prints....
Height at highest point 10 and half feet
Depth 26 10 1/4 feet
width 18 feet 2 inches
Lobby
Depth 8 1/2 feet
Width 18 feet 2 inches
Height 12 feet.
To change equipment the screen can be taken out as the Cinecurve screen is designed to be pressure set in the frame. . . . . putting the 20 Ts on the stage was a 4 man job.... they are heavy.
Ash

Bogg,
Room Dimensions from Engineering prints....
Height at highest point 10 and half feet
Depth 26 10 1/4 feet
width 18 feet 2 inches
Lobby
Depth 8 1/2 feet
Width 18 feet 2 inches
Height 12 feet.
To change equipment the screen can be taken out as the Cinecurve screen is designed to be pressure set in the frame. . . . . putting the 20 Ts on the stage was a 4 man job.... they are heavy.
Ash

Pictures?

I have to agree with that. I'm fussy about the video and audio quality but I bet I'm nowhere near as fussy about the video as Art and some others. Audio is another story. That's why most of my budget has been spent on the audio side of things.

Personal choices, I suppose, but I completely agree. I use my system mainly for music (2CH and MCH) so have invested in audio capability that rivals the best I have ever heard (Meridian, Genesis, VTL). The room is optimized for audio which means the speakers are out into the room. Video capability is fine (Sony, Panamorph, Lumagen) but falls significantly behind the best that can be had.

Havng said all that, the HTs discussed in this thread look GREAT! One of these years I will probably give in to the urge, break out the table-saw and give it a go.

Just out of curiosity, how often to people use these rooms? And do you let the kids use 'em :eek:?

I am not going to say that the lot of you audiophiles should be taken out back and ...:D, but short of saying that, you simply are being ritualistic about a long established self perpetuating hobby, some people are slow to embrace change, the performance standards are well defined in audio, in video they seem yet to be defined.

What I have no doubt in my mind is that all of us are closet videophiles awaiting that seminal experience into the ultimate videophile realm, basically hacked DCI units. I had the epiphany earlier this year, Coldmachine had it recently, and countless others will come too. Even Art who by some standards is militantly pro video, I suspect still needs to make the ultimate discovery by himself eventually finding the holy grail.

I am fully proficient at putting together the most musical surround sound rooms, the point is as much as the sound can move you our brains are 70% visual, and to complicate matters we are also tactile beings, this now places greater importance on having a d-box system over what I confess as a co-conspirator are ridiculously overengineered sound systems that get these huge sums of dough allocated to them simply because there is a whole industry apparatchik brain washing us all for decades. The current crop of HT aficionados' DNA consists of bunch of brainwashed toe tappers, a little introspection will confirm that.

I applaud COLDMACHINE for taking the due diligence to explore the wondrous new world of DCI at home, one he will never regret exploring.

Just out of curiosity, how often to people use these rooms? And do you let the kids use 'em :eek:?

I actually just walked out of mine having watched Persepolis.

My room gets used multiple times per week with duties split between movies and multiplayer Wii sessions - Mario Kart on a projected screen in surround sound is *immensely* enjoyable :D The wireless controllers mean I can now use consoles and keep the console in the electronics room along with all the other kit.

Since my son was born 16 months ago my time in there has been cut dramatically but it's creeping back up as he's becoming more independent and eventually I hope to spend time in there with him once a) he's stopped spontaneously barfing/pooping b) he understands not to put his hand through the fabric walls or put jam or peanut butter hands on the screen!

I rarely listen to music in my room as, like the audio purists here, I prefer to have my speakers out in the open when I'm in audiophile mode and so I have a separate room for audio, however, if I'm not in audiophile mode and simply want to immerse myself in total blackness while I listen I will listen in there.

NOBODY uses my room unless I'm in there.

Mark

Even Art who by some standards is militantly pro video, I suspect still needs to make the ultimate discovery by himself...



Not arguing this Peter. I just feel, as you know ,that without DCI content that there are trades with these machines. Wolfgang had more trouble technically with his Barco than I would ever want to be confronted with or have to tolerate.



Art

What I have no doubt in my mind is that all of us are closet videophiles awaiting that seminal experience into the ultimate videophile realm, basically hacked DCI units. I had the epiphany earlier this year, Coldmachine had it recently, and countless others will come too. Even Art who by some standards is militantly pro video, I suspect still needs to make the ultimate discovery by himself eventually finding the holy grail.

Peter, could you help me understand what a DCI machine is offering to a user of consumer sources, eg Blu-Ray 1080p Rec709 4:2:0 YCbCr which cannot be achieved by the cream of the crop consumer projectors if my goal is to *accurately* render the source.

Many thanks,

Mark

Having put the Titan Reference through it's paces, a great machine which is obviuosly Christie's inspiration for the HD610Km. For Blue Ray only DCI will give you the illusion of watching true cinemascope, not so with the finest possible 1080p consumer units. That alone having a 70mm cinemascope grade presentation at home should be the ULTIMATE MOTIVATOR for an extreme HT.

The specs are totally deceiving in this case, cause they are awfully close (consumer/dci), this is just not even in the same league, the optics the mtf, the color and overall presentation...

The Barco's deserve special treatment and installation by a qualified certified barco technician, Wolfgang just had a bunch of enthusiasts help in, finding hidden switches and throwing them, feeding it non standard 3-D signals with insane refresh rates, who knows what happened to Wolfgang's unit? I say it was operator error. I did commit operator error myself hot swapping something that shouldn't have and a board did die. Amazing though that the projector's double redundant systems allowed the show to go on.

I to this date cannot finally complete the bill of materials and labour to take a dp-1200 and make it behave to these "ultimate performance and user controllable form", but I am very close to it. And it will compete favorably with the Titan References in performance and reliability ONCE ALL VARIABLES are mastered.

Reliability wise where installed according to design parameters these things are bulletproof, let an amateur loose and all bets are off. Seems like a reasonable risk/reward
situation.

Peter, could you help me understand what a DCI machine is offering to a user of consumer sources, eg Blu-Ray 1080p Rec709 4:2:0 YCbCr which cannot be achieved by the cream of the crop consumer projectors if my goal is to *accurately* render the source.

Many thanks,

Mark

Find your nearest 70 mm projection, shrink it to 12 feet wide. That is the difference.

MTF-MTF-MTF! The capacity of a blue ray disc looking like a 70mm master presentation in CINEMASCOPE. Has to do with optical supremacies of these machines (designed to woo at 50 feet widths like CM said) when projected in smaller venues, the tip7 color when applied to a professional xenon bulb gives you the visual "texture" of film, the TITAN reference is the very best 3 chipper at emulating this color fidelity with their software and lens , and it gets close but it is never ORGANIC, it's allegoric but not organic.

I am spoiled , COLDMACHINE is now spoiled too, I did not twist his arm. All of us WILL BE SPOILED it does not take an eagle eye to immediately recognize the satisfaction of a primal need that was never fulfilled until that seminal moment.

Since my son was born 16 months ago my time in there has been cut dramatically but it's creeping back up as he's becoming more independent and eventually I hope to spend time in there with him once a) he's stopped spontaneously barfing/pooping b) he understands not to put his hand through the fabric walls or put jam or peanut butter hands on the screen!

My sons are a little older, but the first time I let them into my HT the older one put his finger through the dust cap of one of the woofers in my main speaker :eek::eek:

I am not going to say that the lot of you audiophiles should be taken out back and ...:D, but short of saying that, you simply are being ritualistic about a long established self perpetuating hobby, some people are slow to embrace change, the performance standards are well defined in audio, in video they seem yet to be defined.

Meh! Predictable response (have you actually ever heard GREAT audio?).

Not arguing this Peter. I just feel, as you know ,that without DCI content that there are trades with these machines. Wolfgang had more trouble technically with his Barco than I would ever want to be confronted with or have to tolerate.

You are 100% correct regarding content. These things dont hit full speed until you feed them properly.

I cant wait to see some serious content fed to a domestic machine of HT5000 caliber. Last year I was able to show a final screening for a project on the HT5k. It was a RED ONE 4k and 2k capture shown at 2k delivery. There were some slo mo shots that were captured at 120fps. This left Blu Ray TOTALLY in the shade, so I am totally convinced, with ZERO fear of contradiction, that content is the bottleneck. We tried the files on a C3X1080 and an HT380 with similar improvement over BD.

A DCI machine, as Ive discovered, is a major commitment in a number of ways. Cost is actually the least of them as its not a huge jump from an HT5000.

1.You need a PJ room and an HVAC zone to be realistic
2.You need someone with serious CRESTRON chops to integrate well
3.You need the content to get the best.

Regarding reliability, Genuine DCI machines are built for (iirc) 16hr/7day operation.

Pictures - Please see my AVS Gallery.... I do not know how to post pictures in threads.

Use - I travel 3 months out of the year but when I am at home I watch at least one movie a week and Some TIVO and DirecTV. At least once a month have freinds over a weekend for movie and wine night.

My Kids (12 year old son and 10 year old daughter) are allowed to go in the room any time they want.... although they ask me to put a movie when they want to watch maybe once a month.

My 10 year old daughter .... many times takes her friends to the Theater and plays with them ... listen to Disney on Sirius and I have caught them doing cart wheels in front of the stage (strict rule is that they cannot get on the stage)....

Peter - I would like to get the ultimate video on my room (although the current setup is very good) and hope to do it within next 6 months if I can find a worthy Projector.
I have always wondered abou the reliability of a Modded Projector - I hate for my theater to be down when I need it .....

Ash

It was a RED ONE 4k and 2k capture shown at 2k delivery. There were some slo mo shots that were captured at 120fps. This left Blu Ray TOTALLY in the shade, so I am totally convinced, with ZERO fear of contradiction, that content is the bottleneck.

That's fair enough but we're never going to see that sort of content in the cinema or at home? The bandwidth/storage required for 120fps 4K/2K material is staggering...

Mark

An important advantage of the DCI and commercial models for consumer sources is the ability to use very large screens, which should be unity gain (before acoustic construction) for non-reflective rooms. The light output available is much higher than any consumer model. A very large screen size combined with the preference of many users for 20fL and higher white and the ability to maintain this for the life of the lamp requires a lot of light output. Equally important is the ability to do 2.4:1 CIH without an anamorphic lens.

Further advantages include high quality optics, a fully proven CMS, large color gamut, very high bit rate processing, mechanically field adjustable convergence, higher DMD fill factor, very flexible gamma control, CLO (constant light output), Xenon illumination, and HD-SDI input.

The quality of the optics in the consumer models varies and the quality of the DCI model optics is probably higher than any consumer unit with better MTF. Measurement of ANSI CR seems to confirm this. In any case, the optics are specified, tested, and approved by TI.

Although some consumer models now offer CMS, I doubt if they work as well as the TI P7 system in the DCI units. I have seen very little information about the Y component (lightness) after calibration with these systems and I suspect that there are some problems.

The large color gamut is potentially important for compatibility with enhanced color sources that may be introduced soon.

The very high bit rate processing avoids rounding errors that can cause banding and also decreases visible PWM artifacts. Many consumer models have also moved to higher bit rate processing, but the DCI models are much higher.

The capability of the mechanical convergence adjustment depends on the DCI model, with the best allowing less than ¼ pixel error and the worst ½ pixel error.

The 1.2” DMDs used in some DCI models have a significantly higher fill factor compared to the .95” consumer DMDs. This allows closer viewing. I have not been able to get reliable information about the .98” DMDs and I don’t know if they also have a higher fill factor.

The gamma processing is very high resolution and allow very precise gamma curves, including S shaped types.

I don’t know if CLO is available in consumer models and if it is, how well it works. Constant light output measures the lamp light output with a light sensor and increases the lamp current as the lamp ages to maintain a constant white level.

Although there are differing opinions, Xenon illumination is probably better for color accuracy and calibration stability.

HD-SDI input is important for compatibility with some of the best source components. These include HD-SDI moded BD and HD-DVD players. The very best sources available now are through C and Ku band satellite using pro receivers that are all HD-SDI based. Some of these are HD with 4:2:2 and 55 Mbps bit rate. HD-SDI is also available in some prosumer models.

Of course, there are also disadvantages compared to some consumer models. Higher sequential CR is available and installation is much easier.

An important advantage of the DCI and commercial models for consumer sources is the ability to use very large screens, which should be unity gain (before acoustic construction) for non-reflective rooms. The light output available is much higher than any consumer model. A very large screen size combined with the preference of many users for 20fL and higher white and the ability to maintain this for the life of the lamp requires a lot of light output. Equally important is the ability to do 2.4:1 CIH without an anamorphic lens.

Further advantages include high quality optics, a fully proven CMS, large color gamut, very high bit rate processing, mechanically field adjustable convergence, higher DMD fill factor, very flexible gamma control, CLO (constant light output), Xenon illumination, and HD-SDI input.

The quality of the optics in the consumer models varies and the quality of the DCI model optics is probably higher than any consumer unit with better MTF. Measurement of ANSI CR seems to confirm this. In any case, the optics are specified, tested, and approved by TI.

Although some consumer models now offer CMS, I doubt if they work as well as the TI P7 system in the DCI units. I have seen very little information about the Y component (lightness) after calibration with these systems and I suspect that there are some problems.

The large color gamut is potentially important for compatibility with enhanced color sources that may be introduced soon.

The very high bit rate processing avoids rounding errors that can cause banding and also decreases visible PWM artifacts. Many consumer models have also moved to higher bit rate processing, but the DCI models are much higher.

The capability of the mechanical convergence adjustment depends on the DCI model, with the best allowing less than ¼ pixel error and the worst ½ pixel error.

The 1.2” DMDs used in some DCI models have a significantly higher fill factor compared to the .95” consumer DMDs. This allows closer viewing. I have not been able to get reliable information about the .98” DMDs and I don’t know if they also have a higher fill factor.

The gamma processing is very high resolution and allow very precise gamma curves, including S shaped types.

I don’t know if CLO is available in consumer models and if it is, how well it works. Constant light output measures the lamp light output with a light sensor and increases the lamp current as the lamp ages to maintain a constant white level.

Although there are differing opinions, Xenon illumination is probably better for color accuracy and calibration stability.

HD-SDI input is important for compatibility with some of the best source components. These include HD-SDI moded BD and HD-DVD players. The very best sources available now are through C and Ku band satellite using pro receivers that are all HD-SDI based. Some of these are HD with 4:2:2 and 55 Mbps bit rate. HD-SDI is also available in some prosumer models.

Of course, there are also disadvantages compared to some consumer models. Higher sequential CR is available and installation is much easier.


Thanks for a very informative post

Odyssey, super answer! Many thanks, Mark

meh! Predictable response (have you actually ever heard great audio?).

+1 :)

That's fair enough but we're never going to see that sort of content in the cinema or at home? The bandwidth/storage required for 120fps 4K/2K material is staggering...

Mark

That is capture data. Delivery was standard 2k, albeit at very high data rates.

The RED is certainly not without its problems, but gave me a great insight into just how capable our PJs really are.

An important advantage of the DCI and commercial models for consumer sources is the ability to use very large screens, which should be unity gain (before acoustic construction) for non-reflective rooms. The light output available is much higher than any consumer model. A very large screen size combined with the preference of many users for 20fL and higher white and the ability to maintain this for the life of the lamp requires a lot of light output. Equally important is the ability to do 2.4:1 CIH without an anamorphic lens.

Further advantages include high quality optics, a fully proven CMS, large color gamut, very high bit rate processing, mechanically field adjustable convergence, higher DMD fill factor, very flexible gamma control, CLO (constant light output), Xenon illumination, and HD-SDI input.

The quality of the optics in the consumer models varies and the quality of the DCI model optics is probably higher than any consumer unit with better MTF. Measurement of ANSI CR seems to confirm this. In any case, the optics are specified, tested, and approved by TI.

Although some consumer models now offer CMS, I doubt if they work as well as the TI P7 system in the DCI units. I have seen very little information about the Y component (lightness) after calibration with these systems and I suspect that there are some problems.

The large color gamut is potentially important for compatibility with enhanced color sources that may be introduced soon.

The very high bit rate processing avoids rounding errors that can cause banding and also decreases visible PWM artifacts. Many consumer models have also moved to higher bit rate processing, but the DCI models are much higher.

The capability of the mechanical convergence adjustment depends on the DCI model, with the best allowing less than ¼ pixel error and the worst ½ pixel error.

The 1.2” DMDs used in some DCI models have a significantly higher fill factor compared to the .95” consumer DMDs. This allows closer viewing. I have not been able to get reliable information about the .98” DMDs and I don’t know if they also have a higher fill factor.

The gamma processing is very high resolution and allow very precise gamma curves, including S shaped types.

I don’t know if CLO is available in consumer models and if it is, how well it works. Constant light output measures the lamp light output with a light sensor and increases the lamp current as the lamp ages to maintain a constant white level.

Although there are differing opinions, Xenon illumination is probably better for color accuracy and calibration stability.

HD-SDI input is important for compatibility with some of the best source components. These include HD-SDI moded BD and HD-DVD players. The very best sources available now are through C and Ku band satellite using pro receivers that are all HD-SDI based. Some of these are HD with 4:2:2 and 55 Mbps bit rate. HD-SDI is also available in some prosumer models.

Of course, there are also disadvantages compared to some consumer models. Higher sequential CR is available and installation is much easier.


Most of the advantages above exist with consumer models such as the HT 5000 including CMS,HD SDI input,high quality Minolta optics,high enough light output for over 20fL on a 14' wide screen etc. Not to mention higher sequential contrast by some margin from the unmodded DCI units and tremendous panel alignment.

Of course additional advantages of the DCI units will be apparent when DCI content becomes available but that's not yet and, in fact, the poop is the initial content for the home that is day and date to theatrical release won't be either.

Art

Meh! Predictable response (have you actually ever heard GREAT audio?).

Duh! of course I have. I used to be an audiophile before I became a videophile, and I did do a room with Evidence temptation fronts, and confidence 4 surrounds with the speakers out away from the walls in a room treated with wood anechoic wedges and mac monoblocks fed by a Dcs suite that is the sickest surround sound presentation. But all of it amounts to the addressing of the auditory sense ONLY, not enough. You have no idea how good systems I have heard.

What I have extremely clear and omnipresent is that with the exception of 4 o5 people inb this entire forum, none of you have a clue as to how good a measly Blue ray can look on a contrast enhanced Barco DCI.

It is Odyssey who first pioneered this concept and he has politely and in a gentlemanly fashion put his position forward when the audience is receptive to his ideas a bit at a time. This is great but it lacks the apropiate corresponding momentum it deserves what Odyssey has pioneered is an art form that represents the very essence of what good home theater will be, the sooner we follow his lead the better we all are.

Most of the advantages above exist with consumer models such as the HT 5000 including CMS,HD SDI input,high quality Minolta optics,high enough light output for over 20fL on a 14' wide screen etc. Not to mention higher sequential contrast by some margin from the unmodded DCI units and tremendous panel alignment.

Of course additional advantages of the DCI units will be apparent when DCI content becomes available but that's not yet and, in fact, the poop is the initial content for the home that is day and date to theatrical release won't be either.

Art

No Art, listening to your argument above I decided to experiment with the best current consumer 3 chipper currently found the Titan Reference which has quite a bit more light output and precise colorimetry than the sim2.

The results are SHOCKING!!!!

Your statement is based in total ignorance. Irrefutably.You cannot trust the specs because they are obviously not apples and apples.

Granted what Sim2 has done with your convergence is commendable, but let's stop fooling ourselves that uhp can be like xenon, it is not. And how come the pixels in the consumer unit are noticeable at 1.1 screen widths and they are imperceptibly enjoyable at .8 screen widths on the Barco, whats with that, and the grittiness of the pixels up close on one and not the other, and the image transparancy (MTF) at the most important CINEMASCOPE aspect Ratio one looks like video the other looks like 70mm (for the fumfieth time). It is criminal that we allow ourselves to be deluded like you just are Art. These two technologies are 15 years apart in the projection evolutionary chain.

What I have extremely clear and omnipresent is that with the exception of 4 o5 people inb this entire forum, none of you have a clue as to how good a measly Blue ray can look on a contrast enhanced Barco DCI.

I don't doubt that with state-of-the-art technology and some smarts Bluray can be made to look fabulous (heck it already does). It was not your video comments that struck me as curious, rather your audio comments that seemed rather narrow-minded - particularly if you have done as you claim.

Music listening is simply more important to me than movie watching - so I allocate my gear/room dollars accordingly.

...the performance standards are well defined in audio, in video they seem yet to be defined.
This is of course totally false. Performance standards for video are exceptionally well defined by SMPTE and others. On the other hand there are no well defined performance standards, not even minimums, for audio studios to follow.

Eyes are seeing totally different presentation levels of cinematic realism that when measured with instrumentation present equal compliance to such standards you refer to. How do you explain (beside odysseys explanation) the huge delta in picture quality between the dci units and the sim, dp and runco 3 chippers; their specifications are nearly one and the same. WHAT GIVES?

There are many false assumptions in those two sentences and it is difficult to respond to all of them.
Eyes are seeing totally different presentation levels of cinematic realism that when measured with instrumentation present equal compliance to such standards you refer to. How do you explain (beside odysseys explanation) the huge delta in picture quality between the dci units and the sim, dp and runco 3 chippers; their specifications are nearly one and the same. WHAT GIVES?
There is no contradiction between odyssey's statements about the features that DCI units have that most consumer units do not have, and my statement disagreeing with you that there are well defined performance standards in video. How does one contradict the other? Why wouldn't there be performance differences between units? And their specifications are most definitely not nearly one and the same in the context of this discussion, they are measurably different, and are going to look different.

Are some of you guys involved in politics at all , I feel like I am reading a campaign speech with some of these comments ( or maybe it's marketing , they teeter on such a fine line sometimes that it becomes difficult to distinguish ) ;) .

-- Jason

Hurricane break.

Eyes are seeing totally different presentation levels of cinematic realism that when measured with instrumentation present equal compliance to such standards you refer to. How do you explain (beside odysseys explanation) the huge delta in picture quality between the dci units and the sim, dp and runco 3 chippers; their specifications are nearly one and the same. WHAT GIVES?

Peter, I have to try and add some balance to your unbridled enthusiasm.

The delta is there but its certainly not night and day. In terms of CR the delta actually flows the other way.

My own feelings on the H5000 have been well documented here, and it certainly isn't the ugly sister. Its in-house optical design was the envy of the HT market when released.

On a slightly related note, how did you get on with viewing the C3X1080 for your smaller installs. I'd be interested to hear your detailed impression

C'mon

we all know that Peter has no small installs;)

C'mon

we all know that Peter has no small installs;)

Aint that the truth.:D:D

The delta is there but its certainly not night and day.

It's more it's a solar eclipse at noon. I am dead serious.

In terms of CR the delta actually flows the other way.

Maybe in Canada here in Miami it's very leveled soon perfectly leveled. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? IT DOES NOT MATTER, because of that 800 pound gorilla in the room that copius MTF that says "70mm" loud and clear. The absence of this effect is the solar eclipse at noon , I am talking about.

My own feelings on the H5000 have been well documented here, and it certainly isn't the ugly sister. Its in-house optical design was the envy of the HT market when released.

It was competitive to the Titan but where the Titan attempted tackling colorimetry with the software and notch filter, the HT5000 went for more brightness at the expense of those pesky green highlights on cloud reflections and such. CERTAINLY THEIR CONVERGENCE POTENTIAL IS NOTEWORTHY, DPI needs to copy SIM2's convergence policy.

On a slightly related note, how did you get on with viewing the C3X1080 for your smaller installs. I'd be interested to hear your detailed impression

My initial impressions the first time the c3x1080 was shown was disbelief that that projector could be a sim2 cause it did not exhibit that green thingy I so often saw in the HT5000. In fact I enthusiastically endorsed it. To me it looked like a Titan for some coin less and with a beautiful cabinet to boot.

With some organization however those new quieter DP-1200's could be configured in a generic fashion, with a standard rs-232 remote control package and 6k-1 on/off for a bit less than 60k, you'd be getting 10 times the experience of anything you will see at CEDIA including (without breaking a sweat) the Meridian.

You would still need to deal with 2kw of heat, but it be the ultimate HT projector. We are this close to getting there. Nobody said it was going to be easy.:D

C'mon

we all know that Peter has no small installs;)

Thanks Doctor, but with all the new moons of saturn recently discovered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_Saturn), I fully intend to.

Think of it Barco decides to introduce a lower priced dci projector and at the same time the Hubble telescope finds three dozen new Saturn moons. It is Synchronicity and Serendipity in tandem.

Thanks Doctor, but with all the new moons of saturn recently discovered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_Saturn), I fully intend to.

Think of it Barco decides to introduce a lower priced dci projector and at the same time the Hubble telescope finds three dozen new Saturn moons. It is Synchronicity and Serendipity in tandem.

"Intoxicated by the exuberance of his own verbosity":D:D

I also agree with the purists in having a very dark room, but if you make a large three row or more theater the point seems to have others involved. So in that case, I think most folks would not be as impressed with a total black out theater room. When considering the very dark rooms one needs to be aware of how much light it absorbs. I was amazed after my dark purple theater room was completed.

Over 37 celius in Edmonton Alberta today...

Joey

"Intoxicated by the exuberance of his own verbosity":D:D

There is a very good word in the Spanish lexicon for this kind of verbosity:

VERBORREA : Verbal Diahrea.

I think one of the great things with DCI machines, and I'm over simplifying here, is that they have the optics (MTF) etc to produce a sharp image at 40ft wide, when that is zoomed down and shown on a small 12ft screen the clarity is incredible.I realize you said you were oversimplifying, but are you talking about sharp images at 40' wide when standing up by the screen, or when picking a normal viewing ratio? It seems to me that at the same ratio at a regular distance (like 1x the screen width), the optics required for a certain level of sharpness would be the same between a 12' wide screen and a 40' wide screen. That isn't to say that the DCI units don't have better lenses, just that it doesn't seem like it would be because they have to support big screens (other than big commercial screens normally mean more money, and more money means they can put more into the lens). Maybe that they have to support very close viewing ratios though.

I went to a new digital theater the other night and it was nice not to be able to see misconvergence or chromatic aberration from our seats like we have seen at times at other digital cinemas. It may have been related to using an anamorphic lens, but I really don't know.

As you mentioned, there are trade-offs with on/off CR currently and given that CR in images is one of the things that can affect perceived sharpness, it would be interesting to compare the perceived sharpness across various image types. I don't recall what kind of ANSI CR you or others have mentioned for the HT5000, but I seem to recall that it was pretty high. I believe the Sharp single chip 20k was over 800:1 modified ANSI CR, so there are ways to get high ANSI CR in at least some consumer units.

--Darin

"Intoxicated by the exuberance of his own verbosity":D:D

Methinks Peter is suffering from borborygmi :)

Outside of Rear screens and possibly some high gain Torusses I can report that the new ISF supernova screen is a complete and total ripoff, it does not work any better than say grey goo at 100 times the price.What happened? We had a conversation a few months ago about how you had pushed the SuperNova around the time it came out and your explanation was basically that you had believed their enthusiastic claims (even though I had told you what 2.0 angular-reflective would likely do). In that recent conversation you said:
The Supernova is fine now though.Now you're telling us how bad the new ISF supernova screen is. So, why did you claim the SuperNova was now fine just 3 months ago or so? Had you actually seen it? Are you talking about a different SuperNova screen?

I told people some of the problems with the SuperNova early on and wouldn't have endorsed a new version without trying it myself.

--Darin

I also agree with the purists in having a very dark room, but if you make a large three row or more theater the point seems to have others involved. So in that case, I think most folks would not be as impressed with a total black out theater room. When considering the very dark rooms one needs to be aware of how much light it absorbs. I was amazed after my dark purple theater room was completed.

Over 37 celius in Edmonton Alberta today...

Joey

Must be a Canadian thing :confused:

We have had the occasional Bigfoot sighting here as well but never 37 of them. Is the plural of celius, celii ?

There is a very good word in the Spanish lexicon for this kind of verbosity:

VERBORREA : Verbal Diahrea.IN English, we usually use the Greek-derived logorrhoea (or logorrhea).

What happened? We had a conversation a few months ago about how you had pushed the SuperNova around the time it came out and your explanation was basically that you had believed their enthusiastic claims (even though I had told you what 2.0 angular-reflective would likely do). In that recent conversation you said:
Now you're telling us how bad the new ISF supernova screen is. So, why did you claim the SuperNova was now fine just 3 months ago or so? Had you actually seen it? Are you talking about a different SuperNova screen?

I told people some of the problems with the SuperNova early on and wouldn't have endorsed a new version without trying it myself.

--Darin

No I had not seen it just the reports that the sparklies and the hotspot were totally gone. And they are gone alright along with the screens capacity to fight ambient light from means other than GREYNESS.

There is a very good word in the Spanish lexicon for this kind of verbosity:

VERBORREA : Verbal Diahrea.

I prefer the more laconic "shite"

I told people some of the problems with the SuperNova early on and wouldn't have endorsed a new version without trying it myself.

--Darin

Quite frankly i would rather have those problems that being stuck with a grey screen. Yuck.

So it has perfect 170 degree dispersion, big deal who wants to see the big screen in the crapper? I'd rather have some gain and minor hot spotting.

What can I say Darin for a while there everything I touched in video (ie The SK) turned into Gold, so I overconfided on my midas touch and experimented with a few things Isf. Ouch.

No I had not seen it just the reports that the sparklies and the hotspot were totally gone. And they are gone alright along with the screens capacity to fight ambient light from means other than GREYNESS.Do you have access to one? If so, can you try shining lights from above or below and see what it does (if you haven't already)? It just seems like it would be pretty surprising if they completely went away from the idea of blocking light that is at big off-angles. I could see not blocking unwanted light within some cone, but not blocking it from big off-angles (especially vertically) would pretty much be back to what we could already get.

I'm pretty sure I sent an email asking if I could get a sample after they changed the screen, but didn't hear anything back. I may be on a list after telling people some problems with the initial version though. :)

--Darin

It perhaps is blocking some off axis hallogen lamp from the ceiling, a bit. mother nature kills it though.

No Art, listening to your argument above I decided to experiment with the best current consumer 3 chipper currently found the Titan Reference which has quite a bit more light output and precise colorimetry than the sim2.

The results are SHOCKING!!!!

Your statement is based in total ignorance. Irrefutably.You cannot trust the specs because they are obviously not apples and apples.

Granted what Sim2 has done with your convergence is commendable, but let's stop fooling ourselves that uhp can be like xenon, it is not. And how come the pixels in the consumer unit are noticeable at 1.1 screen widths and they are imperceptibly enjoyable at .8 screen widths on the Barco, whats with that, and the grittiness of the pixels up close on one and not the other, and the image transparancy (MTF) at the most important CINEMASCOPE aspect Ratio one looks like video the other looks like 70mm (for the fumfieth time). It is criminal that we allow ourselves to be deluded like you just are Art. These two technologies are 15 years apart in the projection evolutionary chain.

Peter I've not seen your DCI unit but you have to face a few facts :

The measured color of the HT 5000 hits the 709 triangle with perfect gray scale tracking. You may well like the look more ,as I might, after I see your projector but this isn't ignorance.

The three chip panel alignment of the three HT5000s I've seen are as good as it gets right now.

The HT 5000 has plenty of light exceeding 20fL on a 14' wide screen.

The optics are excellent and a cut above the run of the mill consumer units.

The HT 5000 exceeds the sequential contrast of anything you have.

Nothing in these comments is based on specs but real world experience and measurent.

I still hope after football is over you will have me down to see Promethius and Helene by your comments I won't drool I'll ejaculate.

And the band played on... :rolleyes:

I agree your numbers are dead on that is why I keep on repeating the comment: What gives?

This is not the old mantra, I did experiment with a Titan Reference that does match the color better on the rec 709 triangle extending on all three corners if you deploy the filter (and it does aproximate that subdued colorimetry you get from the Barco when that tip7 rec 709 swicth is thrown. You convergence is extraordinary and it did beat the TR and Helene, the TR's is not bad though , you are right about pixel visibility in your unit at 1 sw without the isco,not an issue at Helene (why?) the TR is 3,010 ansi lumen and 6,260 on/off with the color correction filter. Isn't that the same cr. than yours?

Then how come the images are so humongously different, how come one looks like the cedia reference and the other looks something out of 15 years from the future?

The xenon, the optics, the color management software, It befuddles me what is causing this delta but it is far from a mirage or a subtle tonal difference.

Please bring your adult pampers when you do come visit, we wouldn't want to stain no $6K theater seats.:D

That much 2"x2"balsa costs a fortune! -Almost as much as purchasing commercial Skylines. I priced Balsa out prior to making my rear wall 2D QRD diffusor and ultimately decided to work with a combination of fir 2"x2" and ripped down 2"x4" material instead. Here is the build thread (http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3327) on the Studiotips site. Have a look at my cut list. My 3'x3' QRD array requires 380 accurately cut blocks. RPG's price for the real deal seemed much more reasonable upon completion of my DIY version! :rolleyes:

BTW- Depending on the listener's distance from the reflective boundary, much simpler to build Poly-cylindrical diffusers can get the job done equally well. I built a bunch o' those too to tame a slap echo problem in my room. Build thread here. (http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3328)

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/VinceHoffman/DSCN4208.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/VinceHoffman/DSCN4219.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/VinceHoffman/DSCN4221.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/VinceHoffman/DSCN4261.jpg

Happy Trails!
Vince@Freewheelcycle.com

I see. I guess I must have been misinformed then.

What about Lego now that’s cheap if you can get it at car boot sale. I mean how much are these people charging for skylines and I don’t like getting ripped off with silly prices because I’d sooner for alternative ways.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/196/518042996_6aeea04a5c.jpg?v=0

I realize you said you were oversimplifying, but are you talking about sharp images at 40' wide when standing up by the screen, or when picking a normal viewing ratio? It seems to me that at the same ratio at a regular distance (like 1x the screen width), the optics required for a certain level of sharpness would be the same between a 12' wide screen and a 40' wide screen. That isn't to say that the DCI units don't have better lenses, just that it doesn't seem like it would be because they have to support big screens (other than big commercial screens normally mean more money, and more money means they can put more into the lens). Maybe that they have to support very close viewing ratios though.
I went to a new digital theater the other night and it was nice not to be able to see misconvergence or chromatic aberration from our seats like we have seen at times at other digital cinemas. It may have been related to using an anamorphic lens, but I really don't know.

As you mentioned, there are trade-offs with on/off CR currently and given that CR in images is one of the things that can affect perceived sharpness, it would be interesting to compare the perceived sharpness across various image types. I don't recall what kind of ANSI CR you or others have mentioned for the HT5000, but I seem to recall that it was pretty high. I believe the Sharp single chip 20k was over 800:1 modified ANSI CR, so there are ways to get high ANSI CR in at least some consumer units.

--Darin

Darin, I knew the oversimplification would be questioned and had a fair I idea you would be the questioner.:D My LUT example springs to mind .:D

I was referring to the overall system an the ability to sit closer to the screen.

I dont have my numbers to hand but the ANSI was well over 700

Peter I've not seen your DCI unit but you have to face a few facts :

The measured color of the HT 5000 hits the 709 triangle with perfect gray scale tracking. You may well like the look more ,as I might, after I see your projector but this isn't ignorance.

The three chip panel alignment of the three HT5000s I've seen are as good as it gets right now.

The HT 5000 has plenty of light exceeding 20fL on a 14' wide screen.

The optics are excellent and a cut above the run of the mill consumer units.

The HT 5000 exceeds the sequential contrast of anything you have.

Nothing in these comments is based on specs but real world experience and measurent.

I still hope after football is over you will have me down to see Promethius and Helene by your comments I won't drool I'll ejaculate.

Reflects my own experience to a tee.

Must be a Canadian thing

We have had the occasional Bigfoot sighting here as well but never 37 of them. Is the plural of celius, celii ?

:p;) Gimme a break I have only been in Canada for 15 years. In another 15, I should be able to do the conversions in my head. My first post in seven months, I should have been better prepared!!

Darin, I knew the oversimplification would be questioned and had a fair I idea you would be the questioner.:D My LUT example springs to mind .:D

I was referring to the overall system an the ability to sit closer to the screen.Okay. So, is the clarity better on a 12' screen than the same projector on a 40' screen?

:)

Basically, can't we just go buy a ticket at a digital cinema to see how incredible the clarity is with those projectors? If not, is it because of ft-lamberts, or something else? It just seems to me that if these DCI machines have incredible clarity it is pretty much regardless of the screen size (within the light output demands and as long as the room it is set up in has the viewing ratios set up for whatever size screen is there) and you could just say that one thing that is great about DCI units is that they have incredible clarity (which should also come through when setup right on big screens like commercial theaters have).

--Darin

Okay. So, is the clarity better on a 12' screen than the same projector on a 40' screen?

:)

Basically, can't we just go buy a ticket at a digital cinema to see how incredible the clarity is with those projectors? If not, is it because of ft-lamberts, or something else? It just seems to me that if these DCI machines have incredible clarity it is pretty much regardless of the screen size (within the light output demands and as long as the room it is set up in has the viewing ratios set up for whatever size screen is there) and you could just say that one thing that is great about DCI units is that they have incredible clarity (which should also come through when setup right on big screens like commercial theaters have).

--Darin

I think the fL and ambient light severely hamper the performance of all cinema. I think there is an apparent lack of sharpness and detail due to this.
In a good cinema the clarity is readily apparent.

Like any PJ, a good environment is needed to get the best out of them.

I think the fL and ambient light severely hamper the performance of all cinema. I think there is an apparent lack of sharpness and detail due to this.
In a good cinema the clarity is readily apparent.

Like any PJ, a good environment is needed to get the best out of them.Thanks. I wonder if there will be any DCI projectors shown at CEDIA in good environments.

--Darin

Thanks. I wonder if there will be any DCI projectors shown at CEDIA in good environments.

--Darin

I was hoping the new Christie would be.

A more interesting question might be.....I wonder if there will be any "DCI compatible" projectors shown at CEDIA in good environments.:)

Then how come the images are so humongously different, how come one looks like the cedia reference and the other looks something out of 15 years from the future?
15 years:eek: If I don't have retinal implants by then, i'll be pissed

Thanks. I wonder if there will be any DCI projectors shown at CEDIA in good environments.

--Darin

The Lightning reference is almost DCI it uses a 1920 x 1080 chip though but in every other regard it's just like a DCI, At SIM there are new ht5000 chassis based e-cinema units, there is a lot of chatter around these, these are must- sees if not exactly for the picture quality, but because they are rumored to be showing something groundbreaking (which might have occurred to me first in this very own forum-but is welcomed nonetheless;)).

Runco can indeed show new projectors with the christie ILS system (the servo lens for aspect ratio change). They can do it with the hd6/10km units and with the cp2000m (the real DCI unit), this projector has a unique safety feature, a direct hookup for a fire alarm. Lol.

if not exactly for the picture quality, but because they are rumored to be showing something groundbreaking (which might have occurred to me first in this very own forum-but is welcomed nonetheless;)).

You just cant resist having a pop, can you. I'm hoping for a non partisan reply here... Have you actually had a good long look at the HT5000. As you know, I am a fan of DCI machines and their capabilities, but I cannot see any real weakness in the HT5000 at all.

I see your now positioning yourself as the Nostradamus of AVS:eek:

The Pop in general is against UHP based three chippers, I had edited like that but somehow it did not post. My apologies to the HT5000 groupies. Such a fine machine capable of such unheard of levels of convergence. I really look forward to not seeing any green this time around. I am sure it is a thing of the past, dammed I tried seeing green on the TR, nothing to be found.

As to the Nostradamus I already can see 15 years into the future, that is a start.

Thanks. I wonder if there will be any DCI projectors shown at CEDIA in good environments.

--Darin


Good question !

Art

You just cant resist having a pop, can you. I'm hoping for a non partisan reply here... Have you actually had a good long look at the HT5000.
Of course he has had a good long look at it, what a silly question. I mean, don't you remember his post criticizing it, declaring it had excess green based on a screen shot on AVS? Now if that doesn't qualify, what does?

Of course he has had a good long look at it, what a silly question. I mean, don't you remember his post criticizing it, declaring it had excess green based on a screen shot on AVS? Now if that doesn't qualify, what does?

Max was green with envy because he wishes he could afford an HT5000???:D

There is only one projector I wake up in the middle of the night thinking of, and it is a dp-1200 with all the 5 possible hacks. The SK MKIII. The rest possibly including the mighty meridian don't move me like that.

Another point to be aware of is that not all digital cinema PJs are equal. There are a number of cinemas, some mentioned here, that use the current Sony 4k units. One in particular is very close to home for me. Some of these establishments have been given the machines for free as well as the support contracts.

Uniformity, CA and MC are the order of the day for these machines. Ask any supervising projectionist why they apply a defocus preset on them.

On the other hand there are no well defined performance standards, not even minimums, for audio studios to follow.

SMPTE does not govern standards for audio ? What about the ITU ?

Regards,