I am looking to replace my Mitsubishi WS65819. This TV was outstanding after Gregg Loewen calibration so I intend to have the new one calibrated. The only choices I have are Samsung and Mitsubishi as all other manufacturers have vacated the market.

I am looking for a tv in the 60-70 inch range. Which models look best after calibration? Picture quality means everything to me.

Thanks!

Greetings

Samsung ... since it has CCA ... the Mits color management system does not work right.

So the Sammy can be calibrated better for improved accuracy.

regards

Thanks for replying. What do you think of the Samsung LED HL617A750/HL67A750 models?

Samsung. Enough said...

Thanks for replying. What do you think of the Samsung LED HL617A750/HL67A750 models?
I've seen some calibration reports from those models. You can get them almost perfect.

I've seen some calibration reports from those models. You can get them almost perfect.

Wow!! Thanks.

I will be sitting about 14 feet from the TV and am deciding whether to get the 61 or 67. I had no problem with HD content with the 65 but with DVD and standard programming I sometimes wished I was farther. Perhaps upconversion with a better dvd player may help with this.

Thanks again.

savjam

Greetings

Upconversion ... not really. It is what it is. No upconversion can magically add detail into images without.

Sit further back or just accept it for what it is and move on. :) Don't obsess over things you can't control.

Regards

Wow!! Thanks.

I will be sitting about 14 feet from the TV and am deciding whether to get the 61 or 67. I had no problem with HD content with the 65 but with DVD and standard programming I sometimes wished I was farther. Perhaps upconversion with a better dvd player may help with this.

Thanks again.

savjam
If you don't mind paying the difference (it's actually quite small compared to the jump in flat panels), go with the 67" set. It'll give you more of that wow effect when watching some excellently produced HD material.

If you don't mind paying the difference (it's actually quite small compared to the jump in flat panels), go with the 67" set. It'll give you more of that wow effect when watching some excellently produced HD material.

Thanks. I will consider it.

savjam

Thanks for all the responses.

This forum provides a great service to us.

savjam

Samsung ... since it has CCA ... the Mits color management system does not work right.

what about the mitsubishi CMS doesn't work right? I just calibrated my wd-65835 with pretty good results.

I have attached my data from color hcfr.

Greetings

Because you need 18 controls to do it right ... 12 does not get you there. It can get you nifty looking graphs ... but the results are still wrong and the image is still not right.

regards

The real answer is that the PerfectColor only affects the luma of each color, not the saturation, making it largely useless. The PerfectTint is somewhat more useful, but overall, the sets do not calibrate out as well as the Samsungs, as has been noted above.

Mitsubishi has been quite arrogant in limiting access to information regarding calibration of their sets, as well as about the processing that the sets perform. They have clearly been more interested in marketing hype than in accurate reproduction. As they have moved to outsourcing more of the product than in the days of CRT based sets, they have also had less control over design. The result is that their products have become increasingly second rate from the view of someone wanting accurate reproduction according to industry standards. They may look great to many, even most people, and can be significantly improved with calibration, but they just ain't right.

I work for a dealer that sells more Mitsubishi than anything else, so over the years I have calibrated more of them than most professional calibrators do, and the comments above are very much consistent with my experience.

Greetings

Because you need 18 controls to do it right ... 12 does not get you there. It can get you nifty looking graphs ... but the results are still wrong and the image is still not right.

regards

Michael, would you please elaborate on this?

I believe he means:

There are a total of six colors (three primary (RGB) and three secondary (CYM)).

For those six colors you need the ability to adjust three parameters (phase(tint/hue), luma(brightness) and saturation) for each color independently, resulting in 18 total controls.

Greetings

You got it ... thanks.

RGBCYM ... need Tint, Saturation, Brightness for all ... in order to work right. Without brightness ... graphs still look spiffy ... but the intensity of each color can be wrong resulting in a bad image.

A wonderful case of graphs not telling the whole story ... (or lying to you)

More to calibration than pretty graphs. :D

Regards

But if you look, he did adjust the luminance of each color to get it as close as he could to what it should be based on the luminance of white. Therefore he WAS able to adjust it correctly. The Mits controls really adjust brightness and not saturation.

The only thing I see that is off for him is his gamma. If he could get that flatter and closer to 2.2, then I'd say he's got it pretty darn good. Especially for a DIY.

Do the Mitsubishi RPTV in general have a sharper (more focused looking) picture than the Samsungs? This is the way it appeared to me in the store today, i.e., one Mits 73 and 65 inch verus the 67 in Samsung.

Greetings

You got it ... thanks.

RGBCYM ... need Tint, Saturation, Brightness for all ... in order to work right. Without brightness ... graphs still look spiffy ... but the intensity of each color can be wrong resulting in a bad image.

A wonderful case of graphs not telling the whole story ... (or lying to you)

More to calibration than pretty graphs. :D

Regards

do you happen to have a screen shot or something showing a side by side comparison?

would like to see what you mean.

thks

well, I agree that the cms is a bear to work out but I have control for gain,saturation,hue
you have to use a combination of service menu and perfectint/perfectcolor to get it right. I'm still just learning but look at my latest results for my wd-65835. nifty looking graphs should get me there as long as they read correctly. if my meter is to be believed.

the gamma and luminance is a result of the auto iris and the only way to flatten it out is to significantly drop contrast as there is no way to turn it off. there is no gamma specific control in the service menu.

yes you have to adjust the gain for the secondaries independently because this set has a color wheel with the secondaries on it.

so tell me again why I cant get good results minus the gamma. I argue any set with an auto iris enabled will do this.

I am new to this. I have only been calibrating with a meter for about 2 weeks now so maybe i'm missing something but wouldnt this be considered a good calibration. I'm open to constructive criticism. this is a mitsubishi wd-65835. I know other on the mitsubishi tweeks and settings forum getting good results as well.

Do the Mitsubishi RPTV in general have a sharper (more focused looking) picture than the Samsungs? This is the way it appeared to me in the store today, i.e., one Mits 73 and 65 inch verus the 67 in Samsung.

I did not observe the issue at when I compared another Samsung HL67A750 with a 65 and 73 inch Mitsubishi at Bestbuy today. The Samsung looked sharp and with much better colors overall. The red on the Mitsubishi looked purplish.

Unless you can be sure that the TVs are calibrated correctly and have identical lighting conditions, I don't see much value in comparing TVs in a store. Stores are good for looking at the bezel, the size of speakers, the color of the stand, screen reflection, checking to see if you can see RBE, etc., but not for looking at the picture quality. If you can gather enough info on how to tweak it yourself, and the store will let you, then you could sit there and play around with the picture for a few hours until you get a good comparison, but that just seems unlikely to happen and it's still not very exact, especially if you plan on getting it professionally calibrated. I strongly feel that opinions from people that have a lot of experience with the TVs are worth 10x anything you can get in a store by looking at a TV. Of course the trouble is weeding out the whackos from the people that actually know stuff.

I had a wd-65732 that did not have controls for saturation because the cms in the service menu was non functional. but the wd-65835 as well as all other 2008 models I know of do have a fully functioning CMS with Gain, saturation and hue for each color and that can be used in combination with the perfectint and perfectcolor to give a wide range of control not to mention theres also the standard color control that can be useful for driving saturation the tint control is largely useless for any meaningful calibration.

the negative's for this set is a auto iris that cant be disabled, keystone correction that needs to be disabled to give a true 1:1 pixel relationship. 120 hz feature seems largly useless and actually can negatively impact performance. geometry is a not perfect and is slightly worse than the 2007 models I have seen. colors ,especially secondarys are off quite a bit with factory settings. that being said I realy like the styling of the set minus the worthless blue accent lighting that can thankfully be turned off. the colors are very bold and accurate to my eye once calibrated and the viewing angels are supurb.

I am very happy with the set so far. I will say I have not had any experience with the sammys so take my opinion for what its worth.

the negative's for this set is a auto iris that cant be disabled, keystone correction that needs to be disabled to give a true 1:1 pixel relationship. 120 hz feature seems largly useless and actually can negatively impact performance. geometry is a not perfect and is slightly worse than the 2007 models I have seen. colors ,especially secondarys are off quite a bit with factory settings. that being said I realy like the styling of the set minus the worthless blue accent lighting that can thankfully be turned off. the colors are very bold and accurate to my eye once calibrated and the viewing angels are supurb.

I am very happy with the set so far. I will say I have not had any experience with the sammys so take my opinion for what its worth.

Can you explain the part about keystone correction needing to be disabled? How do you disable that for a 73735 and what is the side effect of disabling it? Do I care about 1:1 mapping if I'm not using it as a PC. How does it affect image quality for non PC uses?

I had a 65735 and exchanged it for a 73735. The picture on the 73 seems a little bit softer than the 65. It could be because it's bigger and that's just normal. I"ve read other posts about keystone correction making the image softer. I'm wondering if this may help.

fixing the 1:1 pixel errors on these set is as simple as pressing menu 2457 than pressing 0 in the service menu. go into manual keystone geomitry alignment and pressing enter. now press exit to exit the service menu. now the set will resolve every pixel of a 1080p picture.

the realworld effect is probably not noticeable but technically you can now see a higher degree of fine detail. you may notice a small increase in overall sharpness but probably not much would be noticeable. this may also remove and strange shimmering like effect in fine detail. to actually see the effect of the keystone correction look at a resolution sweep on a disk like dve.

fixing the 1:1 pixel errors on these set is as simple as pressing menu 2457 than pressing 0 in the service menu. go into manual keystone geomitry alignment and pressing enter. now press exit to exit the service menu. now the set will resolve every pixel of a 1080p picture.

the realworld effect is probably not noticeable but technically you can now see a higher degree of fine detail. you may notice a small increase in overall sharpness but probably not much would be noticeable. this may also remove and strange shimmering like effect in fine detail. to actually see the effect of the keystone correction look at a resolution sweep on a disk like dve.

I tried and it seems to be sharper or maybe it's mental :) I did fix some geometry issues though using this as well, the 4:3 bars looks much better now. Thanks!

I tried and it seems to be sharper or maybe it's mental :) I did fix some geometry issues though using this as well, the 4:3 bars looks much better now. Thanks!

That seems to be a bit contradictory to me. If you "fixed" any geometry issues, that would involve electronic manipulation of the geometry of the signal, and therefore would disable 1:1 pixel mapping. Theoretically, you should have to choose between the best sharpness/resolution (1:1 pixel mapping), or the best geometry (altering the signal to improve geometry beyond what can be done with the set's inherent optics/light path).

That seems to be a bit contradictory to me. If you "fixed" any geometry issues, that would involve electronic manipulation of the geometry of the signal, and therefore would disable 1:1 pixel mapping. Theoretically, you should have to choose between the best sharpness/resolution (1:1 pixel mapping), or the best geometry (altering the signal to improve geometry beyond what can be done with the set's inherent optics/light path).


I think I understand what your saying. No additional processing is better if I want to get 1:1 pixel mapping. I'm not using it as a PC display so it's not critical for me. I did notice some geometry issues especially with the 4:3 bar so I went ahead and fixed it. Whether it's all in my head or not I thought the picture looked a little soft before I went in that menu. Now it's definately not soft. I could tell right away on that AVS HD calibration disc, the text on the top left of the title menu is definately less blurry than before.

I was starting to regret exchanging the 65 inch for the 73 inch. Either way I'm much happier now than I was a few days ago.