I ordered the Oppo DV-983H a few days ago, but now considering to look at the Toshiba XD-E500 Upconverting 1080p Extended Detail DVD Player. I bought the PS3 a few weeks ago and I'm starting to watch less blu-ray movies on it, but play PS3 games more often. I use to have have the Sony BDP-S350, but I was not impressed with it. I'm now getting back to dvds. Here are the reasons why:
1. Blu-ray movies are expensive to buy. There is no way that I'm going to spend an extra $10 to $15 for the blu-ray version. With the money saved from buying the dvd version, I can use it to pay for my monthly expenses.
2. Long waiting list at Netflix for recently released blu-ray movies even if they were released a month to two months ago.
3. Blu-ray players are still expensive.
4. Blu-ray gives me the WOW factor in the audio, but the not so wow factor the picture as of it yet.
5. There is no way that I'm going to repurchase the same movie on blu-ray.
6. Most movies are not in Blu-ray yet.
7. DVD is good enough for most people.

I ordered the Oppo DV-983H a few days ago, but now considering to look at the Toshiba XD-E500 Upconverting 1080p Extended Detail DVD Player. I bought the PS3 a few weeks ago and I'm starting to watch less blu-ray movies on it, but play PS3 games more often. I use to have have the Sony BDP-S350, but I was not impressed with it. I'm now getting back to dvds. Here are the reasons why:
1. Blu-ray movies are expensive to buy. There is no way that I'm going to spend an extra $10 to $15 for the blu-ray version. With the money saved from buying the dvd version, I can use it to pay for my monthly expenses.
2. Long waiting list at Netflix for recently released blu-ray movies even if they were released a month to two months ago.
3. Blu-ray players are still expensive.
4. Blu-ray gives me the WOW factor in the audio, but the not so wow factor the picture as of it yet.
5. There is no way that I'm going to repurchase the same movie on blu-ray.
6. Most movies are not in Blu-ray yet.
7. DVD is good enough for most people.

a larger display might change your opinion of the bd pq.
imo, 37" is a bit small to get much WOW! out of an hd format (or even the oppo 983).
but the 983 is a great way to go!
i like my dvds just as much as my hd dvds or bds.
many/most of my 800-900+? dvds will never make it to blu, at least in my lifetime.

i dont have a 983 but i use the onkyo hd805, a tosh xa2 clone-with reon vp-almost as good as a 983.

either way, enjoy!

ps-do yourself a HUGE favor and get an hd projector (for a ~100"+ image!!)
you'll be glad u did.

Kage, you have some valid points do what makes you feel good with your setup... a good quality upconverting player does look good damn good at that.. makes me think sometimes why I spent my money on the newer format players...:)

westgate, going with the PJ (native 1080p) was the best move I've done. I enjoy it more than the 50" plasma.. It even got better when I put that (HE LENS) in front of the PJ. "CIH" Cinemascope all day everyday.

Steve

Kage, you have some valid points do what makes you feel good with your setup... a good quality upconverting player does look good damn good at that.. makes me think sometimes why I spent my money on the newer format players...:)

westgate, going with the PJ (native 1080p) was the best move I've done I injoy it more than the 50" plasma.. It even got better when I put that (HE LENS) in front of the PJ. "CIH" cinemascope all day everyday.

Steve
oh, man. now i got to be jealous all day:p. i'm still in the dreaming stage re lens based cih.
congrats and enjoy!!

Here are my reasons for dumping Blu-Ray:

1). The quality of my standard DVD's being up-converted is fine by me. Wife and neighbors can't tell when I'm playing transformers in HD or from the DVD. I do see some improvements with a blu-ray or HD-DVD movie, but nothing that would make me replace an existing movie that I already own on DVD.

2) I don't like Sony. They have never been a consumer friendly company and they are always trying to push proprietory formats.

3). I can download HD content since I have a HTPC. More online content is starting to emerge and with 15 meg download speed with my fios line downloading a hefty 10 + GB movie does not take too long. Not to mention all those awesome HD *.mkv files that you can get on usenet. :)

4). My Xbox 360 can download 720p movies and they look great to me.

5). The WOW factor is not there with DVD vs Blu-Ray. I do see the WOW factor with SDTV and HDTV over cable. I have DirecTV and standard def channels look ok, but the HD channels make a big difference. The same cannot be said for DVD to Blu-Ray. Sure if you sit 3 inches from your TV there is some improvement but not to the degree that some suggest when you are at a normal viewing distance.

6). The overall movie watching experience is not that different. I have several duplicate movies on DVD and Blu-Ray / HD-DVD. ( I have a dual HD-DVD / Blu-Ray drive in the HTPC ). The Mission Impossible series on Blu-Ray looks the same to me as it does on DVD. Transformers on HD-DVD looks slightly better then the DVD version but not OMG better. You could watch the DVD version of Transformers on my setup and still be blow away with how awesome it looks.

7). I think people are starting to see that Blu-Ray is more hype then quality. You pay a huge premium for the hardware and movies and then realize that the overall experience is not that different from a nice upconverted DVD. I bought into the hype at first, but now I'm back to DVD. :)

I thought that I would be purchasing a bluray player Christmas '06. That turned into Christmas '07, which still resulted in no bluray purchase. So I figured Christmas '08. Now, with the Sony S550 coming out, we are where we should have been over two years ago (where HD DVD was). Let's wait and see what SD DVD pq is like on the new Sony. To tide me over, I purchased an Oppo 983 over the summer. The pq is pretty good. I fear that it will be another year before there is a player out that does bluray with all audio codecs and has kick ass SD DVD pq and it at 2.0. Still better yet, I want DVD-A and SA CD. So, a do it all player would probably cost $2K (the rumored new Denon is like $3K). Screw that. So I guess I will just hang on to my 983. Also, there are hundreds, if not thousands of titles that will never be released on bluray.

No offense thats cool you wanna stay SD and all. Why do people need to start a thread to justify their way, need support for your actions??

No offense thats cool you wanna stay SD and all. Why do people need to start a thread to justify their way, need support for your actions??

Or reply to them.

Ask him how many DVD players he's bought over the past few years.

-Bill

No offense thats cool you wanna stay SD and all. Why do people need to start a thread to justify their way, need support for your actions??


I'm not trying to "justify" my way. I'm just posting to say I got sucked into the hype of 6 x better quality, 1080p, blah blah blah. I went out and purchased a "LG GGC-H20L" Bluray / HD-DVD drive for my HTPC thinking that it would blow me away. Boy was I wrong. I have a decent setup with a Samsung 52" model 650A which came out this spring. It has the 120Hz and all the bells and whistles that a current gen LCD tv should have. I connect my HTPC to this tv using HDMI not DVI. My video card is ATI Radeon 3450 with HDMI out, so its not a cable thing either. Like I said in my previous post. I have an upconvert philips DVD with HDMI out and if I put duplicate movies in and just switch the source on the TV while the movies are playing I only see a very slight difference. Certainly not the quality difference I would expect with a product that by the numbers is 6x better then 480p.

To boil it all down for me. It's not worth the money at this point to jump to Blu-Ray. It's not the same jump in quality from VHS to DVD. I know the math suggests that in theory it is, but visually the quality jump is not that great with the current gen LCD tv's and upconverting DVD players. I post this information so that someone on the fence about making the jump to a blu-ray player may decide to stick with DVD and save some cash. To each his own.

On my 60inch SXRD, there is a substantial upgrade in PQ over my Oppo. Noticeably vibrant colors and details, compared to bluray the picture on the oppo looks dark and muddy. Would even say that on most of new films, its day and night difference. Watch "Super bad", "Zodiac", "Transformers", "Hot Fuzz", "Corpse Bride", "Cars", "Enchanted" and "21", all I've seen them both on HD and SD and doesn't even compare. I have no idea how you guys are saying theres not much difference, maybe you guys are connected using composite cables or something??

There are a lot of factors to consider; TV type, size, specs, calibrated or not, source material, lighting, sitting distance/angle and of course opinions. Personally I think to take full advantage of Blu-Ray your display should be at least 50'' sitting no more than 10 ft away. But that's just my opinion. It's great for projectors and huge screens, that I know for sure.

You would have to be blind not to see the difference between 480p and 1080p. Regular DVD's are just plain nasty to watch after the HD experience. If you want to go backwards to that inferior format...fine. But trying to argue for little difference is just plain silly.

I agree there is a substantial difference... Still I'm with the OP as I've already returned to DVD. My decision was easy as I chose the wrong side in the hd battle... ;)

Meh, I bought the hddvd player as an upconvert first anywho. To me the picture is an improvement over my oppo 980, and with the 10 free movies and 50 bucks back from best buy it really paid for itself.
Add to that I live in an apartment- and don't see that changing too soon- watching a 37" screen. At 37" hd disc is really unnecessary. Part of the reason I stick with the 37! (I'm incredibly picky :) )

And let's be honest, hd isn't there yet... Hd cable is so so, 360 looks nice but even a lot of its' stuff isn't ACTUAL hd (halo 3, we're looking at you), and blu ray still has a rather large chance of stalling in the market.

Plus, there is so much great stuff still in SD! Not just DVD but also many TV shows we watch have yet to jump over, of course the wii... hell I still play ps2 and dreamcast on my lcd!

And before anyone flames me- yes, I admit I still go to the theater; and yes, I'm still using dipole/biople rear speakers... I'm a little behind the times :P

I ordered the Oppo DV-983H a few days ago, but now considering to look at the Toshiba XD-E500 Upconverting 1080p Extended Detail DVD Player. I bought the PS3 a few weeks ago and I'm starting to watch less blu-ray movies on it, but play PS3 games more often. I use to have have the Sony BDP-S350, but I was not impressed with it. I'm now getting back to dvds. Here are the reasons why:
1. Blu-ray movies are expensive to buy. There is no way that I'm going to spend an extra $10 to $15 for the blu-ray version. With the money saved from buying the dvd version, I can use it to pay for my monthly expenses.
2. Long waiting list at Netflix for recently released blu-ray movies even if they were released a month to two months ago.
3. Blu-ray players are still expensive.
4. Blu-ray gives me the WOW factor in the audio, but the not so wow factor the picture as of it yet.
5. There is no way that I'm going to repurchase the same movie on blu-ray.
6. Most movies are not in Blu-ray yet.
7. DVD is good enough for most people.

You missed the biggest reason. You don't have to worry where you want to watch the movie when you buy the movie. Unless you have a blu ray player on every screen and in the car, it can be a problem.

Too bad there is no combo discs for BD. I have a couple combo HD DVD discs. Everytime someone complains BD/HD does not offer enough wow factor for PQ, I just play them the same movie on each side of the combo disc. The difference is crystal clear :)

That being said, most films are shot in low contrast and soft image deliberately. The 1080p HD resolution will not showcase the potentials of higher details it can offer in those situations. But the difference is there. You just need to pay attention to. The WOW factor will show more clearly in materials that are shot using HD video cameras as opposed to films.

Some of the OP's points about expensiveness of BD movies and players are valid points. But remember some of us will spare no expense to achive any bit of PQ improvements, i.e. those who spent >$1k for a SD DVD player.

im also sticking with upconverting dvds for now. anyone know roughly in how many years they will stop making dvds? when that happens i will switch to blu ray

im also sticking with upconverting dvds for now. anyone know roughly in how many years they will stop making dvds? when that happens i will switch to blu ray

If that happens, they probably stop making blu ray as well. I don't see regular DVD disappear any time soon.

That being said, most films are shot in low contrast and soft image deliberately. The 1080p HD resolution will not showcase the potentials of higher details it can offer in those situations. But the difference is there. You just need to pay attention to. The WOW factor will show more clearly in materials that are shot using HD video cameras as opposed to films.





wow thats completely false.

One issue that's only being mentioned recently -- and that I've seen for myself with Tartan's recent release of Bergman's "Seventh Seal" on blu-ray -- is how much better black and white films look on blu-ray.

It's quite astonishing, actually. I wasn't prepared for the difference -- and I'm thrilled to see it. Tartan included both the SD and BD in the Bergman pack -- and it's quite an eye-opener to visually see the difference (on a mere 46" Samsung no less.) I read about blu-ray and b&w -- but I wasn't convinced until I saw it for myself.

(And P&P's recent 'Black Narcissus' on blu-ray. Holy cow -- mind boggling color and detail. Beautiful.)

I expect Criterion's upcoming 'The Third Man' and 'The 400 Blows' will be quite a revelation in b&w.

Anyway, if you're not into blu-ray -- that's fine. I'm sure blu-ray will do fine without you. :)

I do agree, though -- enough with releasing the newest crap (i.e. wretched films) on blu-ray. The content is key in this next year, I suspect. More b&w please.

7. DVD is good enough for most people.

Hmmmm..... where have I heard the term 'good enough' before?

I agree with some of the OP's concerns. While I don't own a BP. A good friend does and I have watched a handful of movies at his house on it. We both have the Sony 60A300 SXRD. The picture does look good.

My number one complaint has been that there are too many problems with these players. It seems that you just can't buy one,hook it up and watch movies without it freezing up, powering down, needing to be returned because of color washout or needing the firmware upgraded etc.

I decided to upgrade to the Oppo 983H. I have had it a week and it is giving me problems. It has locked up twice and it does not always do what is commanded from my Harmony remote. I guess I should just stick with my trusted 4yr old Pioneer 59avi that has not had one glitch since day one.

I'm also waiting for a better player. Specifically a carousel changer (not a megachanger. 5 or 6 disc.)


I do agree, though -- enough with releasing the newest crap (i.e. wretched films) on blu-ray. The content is key in this next year, I suspect. More b&w please.

Well, in their defense, those new movies are what sell. I'd also like to see more b&w films, but the general public seems to prefer Aston Kutcher acting like a fratboy. :(

OK........ I give you permission to stay with Standard DVD's.

we may now lock this thread!

-Mike :p

Hmmmm..... where have I heard the term 'good enough' before?And why does someone need to justify an individual purpose by using an argument for "most people". Smells like a dodge to me...

It doesn't help that half the reasons are wrong, or only correct if you're actively making them hard for yourself.

I have a 52" RP LCD 720p from Panny. I bought a Toshiba HD-DVD A3 for $80 after Toshiba bailed and several HD-DVDs on sale from Amazon. I also have an Oppo 981. For me, there is no substantial change to PQ between the Oppo and the A3. I can see a difference, but not enough to tell which version I am watching. I think several good points were made here on pricing, portability and the wow factor. I realize that a large 1080p TV will increase the wow factor, and that a HDMI AVR should do the same for the sound, but for now, no BD player in my immediate future. I certainly want to wait for the problems to be resolved, the prices of both players and media to come down, and for my 2 year old HDTV to die.
My wife thinks I'm an HD snob because I hate to watch SD programming, but some of the posting in this thread make me look like a piker.:D

Contrary to those who don't like this post I think it does provide some insight into why people who are perfectly capable and appreciative of HDM don't jump in.

I had HD DVD but returned it for all the reasons outlined above. Even today I think the players are just getting up to a very minimal level of Profile 2 functionality. The spec has so many optional features that there is too much variability in functionality between players for me. I suspect that all players will eventually support on-board audio decoding and have the minimum amt of storage included to be classified as Profile 2 out of the box. BD just needs a little more time in the oven for me.

I'm not heading back to DVD from Blu-ray, but expect to keep buying more DVDs. I mean...how many zombie, horror, sci-fi, matrix, spiderman, and lord of the rings films do I really want to watch in HD? Geeze, when they used to talk about the PS3-crowd favorites dominating the releases in Blu-ray, I think they were right.

I'm not heading back to DVD from Blu-ray, but expect to keep buying more DVDs. I mean...how many zombie, horror, sci-fi, matrix, spiderman, and lord of the rings films do I really want to watch in HD? Geeze, when they used to talk about the PS3-crowd favorites dominating the releases in Blu-ray, I think they were right.

the horror and sci-fi movies are the ones i want to see in hd. the major space operas (star wars, aliens, etc), the hellraiser series, stuff like that.
i agree-dont need to see any more zombie movies.
i havent seen any of the l o t r movies and dont plan to.
sp'man 2 & 3 i have yet to see.

Hmmmm..... where have I heard the term 'good enough' before?

1. My job is good enough
2. My house is good enough
3. My car is good enough
4. My phone is good enough
5. My stereo is good enough
6. My TV is good enough

....the list goes on. Life is all about making choices. Unfortunate as it may seem. Even DVD v. Blu Ray is a trade-off and I have yet to find a movie that I did not enjoy on DVD enjoyable just because it was Blu Ray - with one exception - Patton :)

just kidding. I enjoyed both versions. But the Blu Ray looked really nicely restored to me.

wow thats completely false.

Blu Ray is the best way to see a movie as it looked like in a theatre - often better. If that is what drives you then Blu Ray is the way to go. But getting a front projector and a 100 inch plus screen is probably equally important. If you are going with a 50 inch or so screen, then you've already compromised the Directors intent. After all which director intended the movie to be seen on a 50 inch screen or smaller.

Amazing, but some movies like Miami Vice look like they were shot in SD to me!!! Just the style.

I've headed back to DVD by default because there's nothing I want to watch on blu.

When I first got my PS3 last summer I forced myself to sit through two dozen Netflix blu-ray movies I would have never ordered if they weren't on blu.

And then I decided enough was enough. Shlock is shlock, no matter what the format.

So I decided that from that point on I wouldn't buy or rent anything just because it was on blu-ray. And I think I've watched one or two blu-ray discs in the last six months.

Since the PS3 also plays games and serves up MP3s it still earns its keep around my place.

I ordered the Oppo DV-983H a few days ago, but now considering to look at the Toshiba XD-E500 Upconverting 1080p Extended Detail DVD Player. I bought the PS3 a few weeks ago and I'm starting to watch less blu-ray movies on it, but play PS3 games more often. I use to have have the Sony BDP-S350, but I was not impressed with it. I'm now getting back to dvds. Here are the reasons why:
1. Blu-ray movies are expensive to buy. There is no way that I'm going to spend an extra $10 to $15 for the blu-ray version. With the money saved from buying the dvd version, I can use it to pay for my monthly expenses.
2. Long waiting list at Netflix for recently released blu-ray movies even if they were released a month to two months ago.
3. Blu-ray players are still expensive.
4. Blu-ray gives me the WOW factor in the audio, but the not so wow factor the picture as of it yet.
5. There is no way that I'm going to repurchase the same movie on blu-ray.
6. Most movies are not in Blu-ray yet.
7. DVD is good enough for most people.
OK! We can shut this thread down. Nothing further to be gained here.

some sad sad sad people on here.

OK! We can shut this thread down. Nothing further to be gained here.

Why all the hostility!? ;)

Personally I think I takes balls to come out on an av forum and say: 'you know what? A horse is a horse and blu ray is a niche format, always going to be a niche format. It's expensive, and a whole lot of other things I don't like... And I've decided I can live without it!'

Lol! It's just an opinion! Dude came on to the STANDARD DEF forums to vent! That's all! Nothin' but love here! :)

Typed from my blackberry.

You missed the biggest reason. You don't have to worry where you want to watch the movie when you buy the movie. Unless you have a blu ray player on every screen and in the car, it can be a problem.

This is a huge reason Blu-Ray is not as popular as DVD. The Rent, Rip, Return market does not exist, and getting a Blu-Ray movie down to a portable device like an Ipod or any of the Archos pmp's is too much hassel. I want conveinance with the media I purchase. I want to make a backup copy of it, I want to be able to transport it to different devices. I want to store it on the hard drive and be able to cut out clips of funny scenes. I want all the flexability I have with DVD, but that is years away. You would think with all the "storage capacity" that Blu-Ray has they could put a decent *.avi rip of the movie on the disc for ya. Hell, give us an *.avi, a *.mp4 and a *.mkv of the damn thing. Start doing that and I think that adds value to every disc. Give the people what they want or risk having the people pirate it in the format they want it in. Everyone wanted the ability to stream divx *.avi movies on the Xbox 360, and they finally gave it to us. Instead of giving us more options with Blu-Ray they give you less. You get the movie on disc and they make it a real PITA to rip and convert to get into any usable format that many people want. You want the new Blu-Ray title on your Ipod, good luck and I hope you have a really fast PC with a Blu-Ray drive to convert it. You want to make a copy for the kids so they don't destroy the original, too bad. The average American consumer wants to make a backup copy and have some flexability with the media because they are used to it. They are used to ripping a DVD and then converting it to put on their Ipods or other devices. They want that backup copy so the kids can be rough with the DVD and get it all scratched up without worry. They want that extra copy to put in the mini-van. They want that *.mp4/avi copy to have on the laptop. They want to stream that movie from their PC to their Xbox 360 and Blu-Ray says HELL NO to that. So I say HELL NO to them. There are many ways to get HD content without getting a Blu-Ray disc. Even DirecTV has downloadable HD VOD for their DVR boxes. Blu-Ray is a niche market and one that I hope suffers a terrible death. I have moved on and enjoy all the options I have with DVD. This Christmas will be a make or break season for Blu-Ray. If enough people decide to go the AppleTV HD Download route vs the over priced Blu-Ray route the writing will already be on the wall.

Don't get me wrong, I like HD content, but not from Sony. I still agree with the original post that DVD is still awesome to watch and the delta between DVD and Blu-Ray is not the same WOW factor that VHS to DVD was. Current gen LCD's and upconverting DVD players have done wonders with DVD quality and may have extended DVD's life long enough to put Blu-Ray under as HD VOD and downloadable content providers gain in numbers. Tick tick tick.

Ok, I feel better now. I think I'll go to sleep. :)

These discussions always turn out as "arguments" ,as in who will win the debate. Sorry you fellas bought an expensive blu-ray player and spend more for your movies over minimal difference.

i have the phillips 5982, upconverts dvds to 1080p on my 47' vizio. that looks plenty good enough for me. i dont watch movies all day with the 40 hr work week and all.

i had a ps3 and rented plenty of blu ray movies. the difference isnt even worthy of discussion imo. i returned the ps3, got my $400 back. i will keep buying dvds on sale at best buy or wherever.

i just dont understand why people would spend so much money on a blu-ray player and overpriced blu-ray movies.

honestly blu-ray movies did sound just a little bit better on my ps3 (RIP) and looked just a tiny bit better, but in no way justifies all that extra money. How many times are you going to watch the same movie on dvd or blu-ray anyway?

when my phillips 5982 dies on me i will buy another upconverter.

I think a big part of the problem is that you really need a large screen (46" or bigger) to get maximum benefit from BD. With smaller screens, a good upscaling DVD player will provide a similar performance level for the average joe at normal viewing distances. Given that good quality, large screens are in the 2 thousand dollar plus range (which doesn't take into account the cost of a next-gen sound system for next-gen lossless audio that BD also provides), most general consumers aren't really equipped to enjoy the dramatic difference BD can indeed provide.

I ordered the Oppo DV-983H a few days ago, but now considering to look at the Toshiba XD-E500 Upconverting 1080p Extended Detail DVD Player. I bought the PS3 a few weeks ago and I'm starting to watch less blu-ray movies on it, but play PS3 games more often. I use to have have the Sony BDP-S350, but I was not impressed with it. I'm now getting back to dvds. Here are the reasons why:
1. Blu-ray movies are expensive to buy. There is no way that I'm going to spend an extra $10 to $15 for the blu-ray version. With the money saved from buying the dvd version, I can use it to pay for my monthly expenses.
2. Long waiting list at Netflix for recently released blu-ray movies even if they were released a month to two months ago.
3. Blu-ray players are still expensive.
4. Blu-ray gives me the WOW factor in the audio, but the not so wow factor the picture as of it yet.
5. There is no way that I'm going to repurchase the same movie on blu-ray.
6. Most movies are not in Blu-ray yet.
7. DVD is good enough for most people.

Why your rant makes little sense:

1. You can rent instead of buying and still enjoy the better PQ/AQ.
3. You already own one, so how does that change if you only buy dvd's.
4. Check your TV... or your eyes.
5. No one says you have too.
6. BD players play dvd's.
7. This was about you not most people, also see #3.

Considering DVDs work just fine in blu-ray players, the "what about my DVDs" argument makes little sense to me, and I'm pretty certain you'll see a much bigger PQ difference between blu-ray and DVD than you will with upscaled DVD (on the blu-ray player or on a 'regular' dvd player) vs upscaled DVD on a "super upscaler".

Original quote from OP:

1. Blu-ray movies are expensive to buy. There is no way that I'm going to spend an extra $10 to $15 for the blu-ray version. With the money saved from buying the dvd version, I can use it to pay for my monthly expenses.
2. Long waiting list at Netflix for recently released blu-ray movies even if they were released a month to two months ago.
3. Blu-ray players are still expensive.
4. Blu-ray gives me the WOW factor in the audio, but the not so wow factor the picture as of it yet.
5. There is no way that I'm going to repurchase the same movie on blu-ray.
6. Most movies are not in Blu-ray yet.
7. DVD is good enough for most people.

Why your rant makes little sense:

1. You can rent instead of buying and still enjoy the better PQ/AQ.
3. You already own one, so how does that change if you only buy dvd's.
4. Check your TV... or your eyes.
5. No one says you have too.
6. BD players play dvd's.
7. This was about you not most people, also see #3.

I sympathize with the OP but

1.Agree w/you Vikingfan
2.I guess you agreed with OP on this one
3.Agree VF
4.Maybe he doesn't see much difference?
5.Agree VF
6.True but most agree not very well
7.Maybe using the word some instead of most

I bought my S301 expecting to see a very big leap in PQ from the SD. Using a PJ the difference is not night and day compared with the price difference of the two. So far i havent advance much in favor of the Bluray, in fact i only have around 10 titles as compared to my at least 200 dvd titles.

For me the audio improvement is so much better with Blu-ray. Regular dvd cannot come close to Dolby Tru hd and DTS-MASTER HD audio. I bought about 50 HD-DVD for $9.00 or less in the last couple months ,so price is not a big deal . You just have to watch for the sales. You can find plenty of Blu-rays for less than $20 , you just have to look around . On my 106 " screen I can easily tell the difference from SD -dvd and Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.I like to listen to concerts a lot and Blu-RAy and HD-DVD blow SD-DVD out of water with the audio quality. It is hard for me to listen to a standard dvd concert . I really miss the Dolby Tru hd and DTS-MA HD.

These discussions always turn out as "arguments" ,as in who will win the debate. Sorry you fellas bought an expensive blu-ray player and spend more for your movies over minimal difference.

i have the phillips 5982, upconverts dvds to 1080p on my 47' vizio. that looks plenty good enough for me. i dont watch movies all day with the 40 hr work week and all.

i had a ps3 and rented plenty of blu ray movies. the difference isnt even worthy of discussion imo. i returned the ps3, got my $400 back. i will keep buying dvds on sale at best buy or wherever.

i just dont understand why people would spend so much money on a blu-ray player and overpriced blu-ray movies.

honestly blu-ray movies did sound just a little bit better on my ps3 (RIP) and looked just a tiny bit better, but in no way justifies all that extra money. How many times are you going to watch the same movie on dvd or blu-ray anyway?

when my phillips 5982 dies on me i will buy another upconverter.

Did you think that maybe JUST MAYBE the difference is huge to others?:rolleyes:

Why do humans think that because what they may or may not see it must be FACT? Friggin ridiculous..I love people who act like anyone who gets into blu-ray has been suckered. Yep, THAT'S IT. It isn't that they see the huge difference and YOU simply can't.

I also chuckle that the people who say this type of stuff are usually those with tiny ass TVs and yes, a 47" Vizio is a tiny ass tv. Maybe if you get a tv that isn't tiny you'll see the massive difference between dvd and blu-ray/high def and won't wonder why people buy something that actually looks good.

Don't get me wrong, it is fine if someone is content with dvd and feels blu-ray isn't worth it but don't wonder why others buy it and state as FACT that it is over priced/not worth it....especially when you don't even have good enough equipment to show off the true advantages of the format.

Come over to my house (or peep any front projector setup) and I will whip up a dvd then a blu-ray/hd dvd disc for you on my 106" screen and you tell me the difference is minimal and not worth it.:rolleyes:

Did you think that maybe JUST MAYBE the difference is huge to others?:rolleyes:

Why do humans think that because what they may or may not see it must be FACT? Friggin ridiculous..I love people who act like anyone who gets into blu-ray has been suckered. Yep, THAT'S IT. It isn't that they see the huge difference and YOU simply can't.

I also chuckle that the people who say this type of stuff are usually those with tiny ass TVs and yes, a 47" Vizio is a tiny ass tv. Maybe if you get a tv that isn't tiny you'll see the massive difference between dvd and blu-ray/high def and won't wonder why people buy something that actually looks good.

Don't get me wrong, it is fine if someone is content with dvd and feels blu-ray isn't worth it but don't wonder why others buy it and state as FACT that it is over priced/not worth it....especially when you don't even have good enough equipment to show off the true advantages of the format.

Come over to my house (or peep any front projector setup) and I will whip up a dvd then a blu-ray/hd dvd disc for you on my 106" screen and you tell me the difference is minimal and not worth it.:rolleyes:

Try whipping up about 20,000 titles not on Blu-ray, many of which probably never will. How about if I want to watch "To Hell and Back" at your house? Got that in Blu-ray? I have a Blu-ray player and a projector too, but I'm not waiting for ten years for a title to be released that's out on DVD now. I buy way more DVDs that Blu-rays, simply becuase there are way more titles available, especially the kind of stuff I like.

Try whipping up about 20,000 titles not on Blu-ray, many of which probably never will. How about if I want to watch "To Hell and Back" at your house? Got that in Blu-ray? I have a Blu-ray player and a projector too, but I'm not waiting for ten years for a title to be released that's out on DVD now. I buy way more DVDs that Blu-rays, simply becuase there are way more titles available, especially the kind of stuff I like.

you think dvd collection came out over night?? You should reallys tick to audio cassette tapes too, moving on obviously isn't for you. There many more movies on blu ray than there was DVD when it came out. Figure inflation, blurays are about 5 to 10dollars cheaper than dvds were. I remember paying 30+ dollars for movies at tower back in 99.

Did you think that maybe JUST MAYBE the difference is huge to others?:rolleyes:

Why do humans think that because what they may or may not see it must be FACT? Friggin ridiculous..I love people who act like anyone who gets into blu-ray has been suckered. Yep, THAT'S IT. It isn't that they see the huge difference and YOU simply can't.

:

I understand what you're saying but it happens in other forums at AVS as well. For instance just jump over to the receiver forum and many people there will tell you that unless you have a high powered amp powering your speakers your speakers won't sound good.

Everybody has an opinion. Thats cool

@OP,

Free country you can do as you wish. I am just the opposite. I can hardly stand to watch upconverted DVD's anymore. I swore I would not double dip (too much) when I bought my HD DVD and Blu-Ray players but I cannot help it. Some of these catalog titles look so much better. I also rent my movies at Blockbuster in the store (so no long wait times). Has worked well so far. Sometimes I may have to wait a week for a popular new release but I can deal with that. Especially when you consider that the rental DVD price and the Blu-Ray price are the same. And it is not just PQ. The AQ difference between Blu-Ray and DVD is usually very noticeable as well. Along with improved extras. But that is my impression of HDM vs DVD. Your's sounds different.

Screen size really does not matter, as long as you're at the appropriate sitting distance. A small TV placed at a small sitting distance is going to have the same number of pixels per degree of arc in your field of vision as a large TV placed at a large distance. The only thing that having a large screen in a large room enables you to do is to seat more people comfortably.

When it comes to audio, it's a no-brainer. When you're hooked up to an Onkyo TX-SR705, HD-DVD and Blu-ray are simply better.

The video is where it gets tricky. Most people sit a fixed distance from their screen. I sit 8 feet from my Toshiba 47" 1080p LCD. When I'm watching DVDs (90% of the time), the image appears a little blocky and blurry even on my Oppo DV-981HD. When I'm watching HD-DVD and Blu-ray (10% of the time), it's nice and clear, but I could move a couple feet closer and it would still look great. So this 8-foot distance is what I've found to be the best compromise.

Although I enjoy HD-DVD and Blu-ray immensely, I can understand some people wanting to just not even have hi-def. It's a heck of a lot cheaper to sit the same distance and have the same resolution for all movies.

I also chuckle that the people who say this type of stuff are usually those with tiny ass TVs and yes, a 47" Vizio is a tiny ass tv. Maybe if you get a tv that isn't tiny you'll see the massive difference between dvd and blu-ray/high def and won't wonder why people buy something that actually looks good.

That's an interesting opinion. I'd like to meet your circle of friends. My 47" LCD is actually the biggest and most expensive in mine.

You should really stick to audio cassette tapes too, moving on obviously isn't for you.

i have a nakamichi cassette machine and ~300+ tapes.
they sound great and i play them quite often, along with my cds, lps, dvds, hd dvds, bds.
oh, and my reel to reel tapes!:D

Screen size really does not matter, as long as you're at the appropriate sitting distance.

A small TV placed at a small sitting distance is going to have the same number of pixels per degree of arc in your field of vision as a large TV placed at a large distance. The only thing that having a large screen in a large room enables you to do is to seat more people comfortably.


yeah, but it's all that real estate (13') between me and my 108" screen that gives the feeling of spaciousness and immersiveness in whatever im watching. it really improves the viewing experience.

size really does matter! a whole bunch!
a little tv is just that, a little tv.

all imo, of course.

The only thing that having a large screen in a large room enables you to do is to seat more people comfortably.

Yes, but the more people you can seat comfortably, the better the chance that one of them supplies the free beer. Plus it's rather fun to watch a movie with a bunch of friends (who of course supply the beer). Every projector owner knows this.

Yes, but the more people you can seat comfortably, the better the chance that one of them supplies the free beer. Plus it's rather fun to watch a movie with a bunch of friends (who of course supply the beer). Every projector owner knows this.

This is the single best arguement for buying a front projector setup I've ever heard!!!

I'm sold! Now I just need the house... :)

I've read this thread with great interest. Over the years I've enjoyed all kinds of video..most of the sources you could name and most of the display technologies you might name as well. During the past ~15 years, in addition to TV's in bedrooms/family room Ie: medium size images; I've enjoyed projected images in a home theater with screen diameters from ~70-100 inches and recent resolutions of 720p native to currently 1080p native.
The difference between sd DVD and stepping up to any of the HD( hd-dvd or blu-ray) is nothing less than PROFOUND.
Sitting at >>2 screen diameters...everything looks wonderful!
With my 46inch lcd/native 720p, an HD feed looks slightly sharper than upconverted DVD or regular DVD...BUT with the big screen and JVC/RS-1 projector regular tv is near unwatchable and SD DVD is soft and muddy.
Upconversion makes a big difference as does an HD feed from satellite(Dishnetwork ,so called TurboHD).
But visually superior is disk HD..The effect is simply not available with smaller formats. It's really that simple..you have to experience it to know it! I watch at ~ 1.5 screen diameters.

This is the single best arguement for buying a front projector setup I've ever heard!!!

I'm sold! Now I just need the house... :)

You don't need a house. Even if I lived in a bachelor apartment in a really dark little one-room basement, I'd find a wall somewhere capable of handling at least an 80" image! Seriously, they take up less floor room than a 20" TV. Just don't hang pictures of the family there unless you get a pull-down screen.

Although the "free beer" is definitely a major attraction to larger sizes - I agree with the previous poster that "size does matter". To be honest I'm not sure why. I just know there's a difference between putting your head 18" away from your 21" computer monitor playing HD and a quality theater, even if the field of view is the same at their relative distances.

The idea with AV is to recreate that cinematic experience, and yes improve on it if possible. You just can't do that watching movies on your cell phone from 4" away. Nor can you do it on a 50" LCD panel from 6 feet away.

Bigger is better IMO.

yeah, but it's all that real estate (13') between me and my 108" screen that gives the feeling of spaciousness and immersiveness in whatever im watching. it really improves the viewing experience.

I'm just curious - do you watch mostly hi-def or standard-def on that screen? My top 5 favorite movies are Back to the Future, Braveheart, High Fidelity, Rushmore, and Shaun of the Dead. You'll notice that out of those 5, only 1 is available in HD (Shaun of the Dead). Another good one is Grosse Pointe Blank, and - hell - that one isn't even available in anamorphic. Just letterboxed pan and scan, so you have to zoom in on it to get it to fill the screen :mad:

13' from a 108" screen would make a movie like Transformers in HD-DVD look jaw-droppingly great. But doesn't regular DVD look kind of grainy? 13' from a 108" screen is about the same as 6' from my 47" 1080p LCD screen (fed by an Oppo DV-981HD). And in my experience, even sitting 8' from it looks kind of grainy.

Yes, but the more people you can seat comfortably, the better the chance that one of them supplies the free beer. Plus it's rather fun to watch a movie with a bunch of friends (who of course supply the beer). Every projector owner knows this.

OK, I just might have to get a projector eventually. After I'm done with that "getting a whole house" thing. Although I gotta tell you, having limited seating space can have its advantages too. Like when you invite your girlfriend and 3 or 4 other friends over. There's limited space, so of course your girlfriend sits in your lap :cool:

I'm just curious - do you watch mostly hi-def or standard-def on that screen? My top 5 favorite movies are Back to the Future, Braveheart, High Fidelity, Rushmore, and Shaun of the Dead. You'll notice that out of those 5, only 1 is available in HD (Shaun of the Dead). Another good one is Grosse Pointe Blank, and - hell - that one isn't even available in anamorphic. Just letterboxed pan and scan, so you have to zoom in on it to get it to fill the screen :mad:

13' from a 108" screen would make a movie like Transformers in HD-DVD look jaw-droppingly great. But doesn't regular DVD look kind of grainy? 13' from a 108" screen is about the same as 6' from my 47" 1080p LCD screen (fed by an Oppo DV-981HD). And in my experience, even sitting 8' from it looks kind of grainy.



OK, I just might have to get a projector eventually. After I'm done with that "getting a whole house" thing. Although I gotta tell you, having limited seating space can have its advantages too. Like when you invite your girlfriend and 3 or 4 other friends over. There's limited space, so of course your girlfriend sits in your lap :cool:
i watch my dvds on a onkyo hd805 (tosh xa2 clone) with reon vp and they look great!
of course, hd dvds and bds look somewhat better.

its all about a good source, display, and calibration.

and yes, get a projector, asap!

<sigh>
i'm really worried that attitudes like the OP's will make high-res video turn out much like high-res audio did. and that sucks.

<sigh>
i'm really worried that attitudes like the OP's will make high-res video turn out much like high-res audio did. and that sucks.

I think it's more than a chance. Two things to consider:

1. As a previous poster stated, like less than 15 percent of households even have an hd TV, let alone one large enough to really justify hdm.
I mean, what was the average TV size/price 10 years ago? 32" for like 400? What is it now? Sorry, I live in Detroit and one thing the economy ain't so hot here. Home entertainment is evolving but it's also costing a whole lot more.

2. Not to dredge up old theads, but it's pretty well established that quality does not make something a mainstream success- convenience does. Anyone care to explain mcdonalds success?
Tapes went to CDs NOT because of the quality- because of the convenience. CD is more portable, durable, and has random access (track skip). Vhs went to DVD for much the same reason...
The CD is about to be full out replaced by the mp3 and we all know on this site that quality has nothing to do with it...

Sorry but IMO hdm is destined to be a niche format. Now, will it be successful? Depends on how you measure success... Was L D successful?

Only time will tell, and obviously this is just one dude's opinion.

I think it's more than a chance. Two things to consider:

1. As a previous poster stated, like less than 15 percent of households even have an hd TV, let alone one large enough to really justify hdm.
I mean, what was the average TV size/price 10 years ago? 32" for like 400? What is it now? Sorry, I live in Detroit and one thing the economy ain't so hot here. Home entertainment is evolving but it's also costing a whole lot more.

2. Not to dredge up old theads, but it's pretty well established that quality does not make something a mainstream success- convenience does. Anyone care to explain mcdonalds success?
Tapes went to CDs NOT because of the quality- because of the convenience. CD is more portable, durable, and has random access (track skip). Vhs went to DVD for much the same reason...
The CD is about to be full out replaced by the mp3 and we all know on this site that quality has nothing to do with it...

Sorry but IMO hdm is destined to be a niche format. Now, will it be successful? Depends on how you measure success... Was L D successful?

Only time will tell, and obviously this is just one dude's opinion.


Totally agree.

HDM on disc is imo destined to be a niche market at best. I don't ever see SD going away for a long long while and 99% of folks are plenty happy with SD DVD.

Oh and no LD was not a success by any means..it was for sure a niche market.

Regular DVD's are just plain nasty to watch after the HD experience.

:rolleyes:Now that is just the silliest comment in this thread...

Btw, random, love your <top 5>! And the lack of a decent grosse pointe blank transfer bums me out too. :(

Sorry, wouldn't have made another post but the blackberry doesn't let me edit apparently...

Sorry but IMO hdm is destined to be a niche format.

I can't believe I'm quoting such a thing on the AVSForum. But among the "lay" people, I can remember the rants about CD over vinyl albums, and DVDs over VHS tapes. It seems history repeats itself.

I'm surprised to find anyone on this site seriously believing 90's technology will win over 2000's technology. That's just silly, and not the historic norm. Generally, humans progress and accept technological improvements. This has been demonstrated since the caveman days.

Perhaps the public will eventually reject high definition, and 19" black & white CRT sets with tuners than you turn will once again rule, as will standard VHS. But I suspect anyone who subscribes to this has watched too many apocalypse type movies. Lets stick with reality, can we? And at least pretend this is an AVS Science site, the way it used to be.

Edit: And lets face it, the title of this thread is insane. Anyone who states they would prefer standard definition over high definition after seeing it is just silly/trolling. No one would.

I'm surprised to find anyone on this site seriously believing 90's technology will win over 2000's technology. That's just silly, and not the historic norm. Generally, humans progress and accept technological improvements. This has been demonstrated since the caveman days.

Right on! The public goes for expensive quality every time. Just look at how SACD blew away crappy (and free) 128 kbit MP3s. :rolleyes:

As the owner of two PS3s, I'm all for blu-ray taking over. But I am a realist too.

DVD to blu is not the staggering difference that VHS to DVD was. Many people don't even notice the difference and many that notice the difference couldn't care less. DVD is good enough, as the CD was good enough.

Is blu-ray success inevitable? I don't think so.

I can't believe I'm quoting such a thing on the AVSForum. But among the "lay" people, I can remember the rants about CD over vinyl albums, and DVDs over VHS tapes. It seems history repeats itself.

I'm surprised to find anyone on this site seriously believing 90's technology will win over 2000's technology. That's just silly, and not the historic norm. Generally, humans progress and accept technological improvements. This has been demonstrated since the caveman days.

Perhaps the public will eventually reject high definition, and 19" black & white CRT sets with tuners than you turn will once again rule, as will standard VHS. But I suspect anyone who subscribes to this has watched too many apocalypse type movies. Lets stick with reality, can we? And at least pretend this is an AVS Science site, the way it used to be.

Edit: And lets face it, the title of this thread is insane. Anyone who states they would prefer standard definition over high definition after seeing it is just silly/trolling. No one would.

I'm not saying DVD is better than blu ray... Just that I don't see it gaining widespread adoption as DVD did- go back and read the whole post.
I don't think the OP was saying 'HD bad, SD good' either...

Like I said, If quality is what sells product explain mcdonalds to me.

Convenience is what sells- and you know what 90 percent of people see when they look at a blu ray disc? The same shiny piece of plastic they've been using for years, nothing new.

As the poster above pointed out, If quality was a priority sacd and DVD audio would not have floundered and stalled in the market- much to the dismay of the enthusiast.

This community on avs is NOT representative of the average American consumer. We're geeks for this stuff- the average American consumer isn't...

Right on! The public goes for expensive quality every time. Just look at how SACD blew away crappy (and free) 128 kbit MP3s. :rolleyes:



No. MP3's are free, SACDs were expensive. Theres a huge difference between high quality music and movies. Who do you know that actually sits at home and listen to music?? I haven't done it since elementary school. Only time I listen to the radio is in my car.

No. MP3's are free, SACDs were expensive. Theres a huge difference between high quality music and movies. Who do you know that actually sits at home and listen to music?? I haven't done it since elementary school. Only time I listen to the radio is in my car.

Well I do, but I am old. (40) :)

I agree that many 20-somethings no longer listen to music at home.

And many people feel that video is headed the same way. Portable video devices are getting better and better. The next generation may feel that sitting home to watch TV (in the living room, on the couch) is just as archaic as sitting home (in the living room, on the couch) to listen to music.

Does BD have a place in this portable, wireless world? Hard to say...it's a rather bulky format.

Well I do, but I am old. (40) :)

I agree that many 20-somethings no longer listen to music at home.

And many people feel that video is headed the same way. Portable video devices are getting better and better. The next generation may feel that sitting home to watch TV (in the living room, on the couch) is just as archaic as sitting home (in the living room, on the couch) to listen to music.

Does BD have a place in this portable, wireless world? Hard to say...it's a rather bulky format.


watching a movie and music are completely different media and experience. Its not like your gonna one day your gonna be driving, jogging, at a party watching a movie. Record industry has been in a slump over all.

Another good one is Grosse Pointe Blank, and - hell - that one isn't even available in anamorphic. Just letterboxed pan and scan, so you have to zoom in on it to get it to fill the screen :mad:
:

You can purchase an anamorphic Region 4 one and have it mailed to you for about $8us + $3us international postage from over here in Aus.

1. Blu-ray movies are expensive to buy. There is no way that I'm going to spend an extra $10 to $15 for the blu-ray version. With the money saved from buying the dvd version, I can use it to pay for my monthly expenses.



Blu-ray is new technology, so expect to pay more of a premium for it. This is true for any product introduced to the market. If this were ever an issue, why go blu-ray in the first place?

Interesting fact: If you inflation adjust the cost of a dvd when they first debuted (about 20 bucks) 10 years back, they cost about 35 bucks in today's dollars.

Warner brothers announced that they're lowering the cost of blu-ray discs to retailers by the end of this year. If/when other production companies follow in suit, expect to see blu-ray titles in the 20 dollar range in the next couple of months.



2. Long waiting list at Netflix for recently released blu-ray movies even if they were released a month to two months ago.



Get blockbuster total access. For every movie I can't get immediately online, I pick up at the store for no extra cost.



3. Blu-ray players are still expensive.



Again: New tech is going to be more expensive. Lesser manufacturers (such as insigna) are set to release blu-ray players in the near future. Expect the basic laws of supply and demand to bring the overall price of blu-ray players down soon.



4. Blu-ray gives me the WOW factor in the audio, but the not so wow factor the picture as of it yet.



To each his own I suppose, but I can see a noticeable difference in PQ from blu-ray....and it isn't just a matter of resolution. Color Gamut, contrast, sharpness etc etc are the biggest improvements in PQ that blu-ray have to offer. Upscalers only improve resolution, but fail to improve anything beyond that.

I will agree with you on one point....the improvement in audio quality is a much greater leap than the improvement in PQ. That alone makes blu-ray worthwhile, but that's a matter of opinion of course.



5. There is no way that I'm going to repurchase the same movie on blu-ray.



Enjoying the benefits of blu-ray isn't contingent upon you purchasing blu-ray versions of your old movies. You can still enjoy newer movies, and others that you don't already own. Hell you have the best of both worlds: a robust library of dvd titles, and higher quality blu-ray titles.



6. Most movies are not in Blu-ray yet.



But almost all new releases are. Also movie production companies are more rapidly adapting older titles to blu-ray nowadays. Don't expect it to happen over night though.



7. DVD is good enough for most people.



And most people aren't enthusiastic enough about A/V to post on a forum regularly. You aren't exactly preaching to the choir.

Personally, I'm not the type to settle for 'good enough'....particularly when it comes to my home entertainment. But that's just me.

I'm not saying DVD is better than blu ray... Just that I don't see it gaining widespread adoption as DVD did- go back and read the whole post.
I don't think the OP was saying 'HD bad, SD good' either...

Like I said, If quality is what sells product explain mcdonalds to me.

Convenience is what sells- and you know what 90 percent of people see when they look at a blu ray disc? The same shiny piece of plastic they've been using for years, nothing new.

As the poster above pointed out, If quality was a priority sacd and DVD audio would not have floundered and stalled in the market- much to the dismay of the enthusiast.

This community on avs is NOT representative of the average American consumer. We're geeks for this stuff- the average American consumer isn't...

You can have your mcdonald's, I'll have my filet mignon.

I will agree though, Blu-ray will likely never see a widescale adoption like DVD. The costs of fully enjoying the benefits of blu-ray (a GOOD high defintion TV, and a GOOD audio system that supports the latest codecs) + the cost of players and movies themselves is going to be a barrier for widescale adoption for a long while. (but that's beside the point)

That isn't to say tha Blu-ray will die out, or that it doesn't have a place in the market, however. Almost any consumer market can be segmented into co-existing 'mainstream' and 'premium' niche markets. Toyota, for instance, recognizes these niche markets...this is why you see them release products under the scion, toyota, and lexus brand names. Each brand is positioned to serve different co-existing markets, just as blu-ray and DVD are currently positioned to serve different markets!

SACD and DVD audio are a bad analogy to dvd and blu-ray because the market has shown the most consumers lack the ability to discern the nuances in audio quality between SACD and CD's. Unlike SACD and DVD audio, blu-ray has had a wide enough market penetration to earn its keep in its own niche market. Say what you will about the difference in quality between blu-ray and DVD on a personal level, but the market has shown that enough consumers appreciate the advanteges of blu-ray to facilitate the level of growth they're seeing today.

DVD may outsell blu-ray throughout its entire product life-cycle, but my own personal enjoyment of blu-ray has nothing to do with how well it sells relative to DVD, because IMO, they each serve different purposes, and different people. On that same token (and back to your analogous point), most consumers may like McDonald's, and the whole fast food industry may have been successful enough to create a myriad of health problems we have here in the US, but on a personal level (and sometimes we have to think for ourselves!), I care enough about my health to stay away from them.

You can purchase an anamorphic Region 4 one and have it mailed to you for about $8us + $3us international postage from over here in Aus.

I just ordered it from play4me dot com dot au.

Thanks for the tip (mate:D).

No. MP3's are free, SACDs were expensive. Theres a huge difference between high quality music and movies. Who do you know that actually sits at home and listen to music?? I haven't done it since elementary school. Only time I listen to the radio is in my car.

methinks he was being sarcastic.
:)

speaking of sitting at home, listening... i wonder how many folks actually listen to the fm or am on their ht avrs.
?

You can have your mcdonald's, I'll have my filet mignon.

I will agree though, Blu-ray will likely never see a widescale adoption like DVD. The costs of fully enjoying the benefits of blu-ray (a GOOD high defintion TV, and a GOOD audio system that supports the latest codecs) + the cost of players and movies themselves is going to be a barrier for widescale adoption for a long while. (but that's beside the point)

That isn't to say tha Blu-ray will die out, or that it doesn't have a place in the market, however. Almost any consumer market can be segmented into co-existing 'mainstream' and 'premium' niche markets. Toyota, for instance, recognizes these niche markets...this is why you see them release products under the scion, toyota, and lexus brand names. Each brand is positioned to serve different co-existing markets, just as blu-ray and DVD are currently positioned to serve different markets!

SACD and DVD audio are a bad analogy to dvd and blu-ray because the market has shown the most consumers lack the ability to discern the nuances in audio quality between SACD and CD's. Unlike SACD and DVD audio, blu-ray has had a wide enough market penetration to earn its keep in its own niche market. Say what you will about the difference in quality between blu-ray and DVD on a personal level, but the market has shown that enough consumers appreciate the advanteges of blu-ray to facilitate the level of growth they're seeing today.

DVD may outsell blu-ray throughout its entire product life-cycle, but my own personal enjoyment of blu-ray has nothing to do with how well it sells relative to DVD, because IMO, they each serve different purposes, and different people. On that same token (and back to your analogous point), most consumers may like McDonald's, and the whole fast food industry may have been successful enough to create a myriad of health problems we have here in the US, but on a personal level (and sometimes we have to think for ourselves!), I care enough about my health to stay away from them.

Well I haven't had so much as a McDonald's french fry in over 5 years... And you can keep your red meat ;)

We actually ARE in agreement, because as I said, IMO blu ray is destined to be a niche format. That doesn't mean it won't be a successful niche format, that also doesn't mean it will or won't fail. Again, as I asked before, how do we measure success? Many consider L D a failure, but as a proud owner of a now retired pioneer L D player- I would have to disagree.
And, again, I'm not drawing parallels just saying... Obviously blu ray is ALREADY more popular than L D. But who's measuring success? Ask any Sony rep and I believe he'll tell you "niche" is not where they want blu ray to end up.

In the end I hope I'm wrong. I like hd just as much as every other fool around here. I just wish there were more of it- more channels, more movies, more choices!
Hd is a market that, itself, is still somewhat niche. That will change as prices come down, more consumers replace they're aging TV sets, prices fall, better programing becomes available and- oh yeah, pricing drops. :)

And as you said, in adjusted dollars blu ray is cheaper than DVD at it's inception- good thing DVD didn't have a product like DVD to compete with... ;)

I really don't get how anyone could go back to dvd after owning blu-ray unless they had a non HDTV.

I would rather wait for movies to come on Cable HD than watch a DVD anymore. And even Cable HD is just disgusting to me now.

I sense some bitterness about the loss of many peoples favorite format.




Even if you "wish" upon a star....HDDVD isn't coming back no matter who you are.

As the poster above pointed out, If quality was a priority sacd and DVD audio would not have floundered and stalled in the market- much to the dismay of the enthusiast.

This community on avs is NOT representative of the average American consumer. We're geeks for this stuff- the average American consumer isn't...

My point WAS that AVS is supposed to be for geeks and those interested in quality. Which is why threads with such titles HERE puzzle me. In an earlier time, AVS members were double-dipping on Superbit titles for very subtle improvements while endless comparison shots were analyzed by members. Things change I guess.

And frankly, the greater public isn't my problem. High definition is not going away regardless. And arguing that it will go away and we'll all return to 480X720 resolution displays and sources because high definition is higher in quality is silly at best, as is comparing evolving AV formats to proprietary SACD disks - especially considering that multi-channel audio is now more popular today than at any previous time in history.

My point WAS that AVS is supposed to be for geeks and those interested in quality. Which is why threads with such titles HERE puzzle me. In an earlier time, AVS members were double-dipping on Superbit titles for very subtle improvements while endless comparison shots were analyzed by members. Things change I guess.

And frankly, the greater public isn't my problem. High definition is not going away regardless. And arguing that it will go away and we'll all return to 480X720 resolution displays and sources because high definition is higher in quality is silly at best, as is comparing evolving AV formats to proprietary SACD disks - especially considering that multi-channel audio is now more popular today than at any previous time in history.

Well said Skyhawk. I had contemplated posting the same thing. When I joined AVS it was because I cared to have what took this hobby to another level, not what Jack and Jill America had. Niche or not, BD takes my hobby to the top level abvailable at this time (and so do my 200+ HD DVDs).
I understand what the OP and others are saying, though. I felt the same way back months ago when I first bought an HD player. However, given some time, it would now be hard to go back.

Even my family has started asking to rent the BluRay of popular movies we are renting. After seeing "Mama Mia" in the theater, my wife even said "I can't wait to own that one on Blu Ray" -and they are not that into my hobby, but apparently they can certainly appreciate the difference.

Well I haven't had so much as a McDonald's french fry in over 5 years... And you can keep your red meat ;)

We actually ARE in agreement, because as I said, IMO blu ray is destined to be a niche format. That doesn't mean it won't be a successful niche format, that also doesn't mean it will or won't fail. Again, as I asked before, how do we measure success? Many consider L D a failure, but as a proud owner of a now retired pioneer L D player- I would have to disagree.
And, again, I'm not drawing parallels just saying... Obviously blu ray is ALREADY more popular than L D. But who's measuring success? Ask any Sony rep and I believe he'll tell you "niche" is not where they want blu ray to end up.

In the end I hope I'm wrong. I like hd just as much as every other fool around here. I just wish there were more of it- more channels, more movies, more choices!
Hd is a market that, itself, is still somewhat niche. That will change as prices come down, more consumers replace they're aging TV sets, prices fall, better programing becomes available and- oh yeah, pricing drops. :)

And as you said, in adjusted dollars blu ray is cheaper than DVD at it's inception- good thing DVD didn't have a product like DVD to compete with... ;)

When you see blu-ray sales jump 300% in a single year, its hard to deny that the market for blu-ray is really starting to take off, regardless of how strong DVD sales still are. In fact, I'm sure that if we hadn't gotten into this whole HD-DVD vs Blu-ray war, we'd see a much higher adoption rate for blu-ray today, and much lower prices.

But from my take, its clear to see that there is a strong consumer demand for TRUE high definition discs (if you factor in both Blu-ray AND HD-DVD sales), even though some consumers may think upscaled content is 'good enough'. We wouldn't see these types of sales numbers if there was any lack in demand.

Personally when it comes to the niche market for TRUE HD content, I don't see DVD as a viable competitor to blu-ray....especially not in the long-run. Its an apples to oranges comparison. That, to me, is like comparing a Scion TC to a Lexus IS350(going back to the toyota example): they may share the same chassis, but they're completely different cars. The TC may be 'good enough' for most consumers and it may have a higher sales volume, but there are enough consumers out there who prefer shelling out extra dough for the bells and whistles of a lexus. I highly doubt anyone who can afford a lexus, is comparing it side-by-side with a scion.

Digital downloads are probably the closest long-term competitor to blu-ray discs. Bandwidth speeds don't really make downloading a 20gb high definition movie reasonable just yet, but I'm curious to see which will increase more quickly: bandwidth speeds, or blu-ray adoption.

In the end, like you, I hope that a real high defintion standard for movies is finally FIRMLY established. It would be a shame to have to settle for upscaled DVD's. And I'm with you on needing MORE content. More REAL HD channels in particular.

I decided to go back to blu-ray after rereading my rant on the first post. Today at Best Buy, I got the Samsung BD-P2550 Blu-ray with its HQV processor.

I decided to go back to blu-ray after rereading my rant on the first post. Today at Best Buy, I got the Samsung BD-P2550 Blu-ray with its HQV processor.

Have you kept track of the number of players you have bought the past few years?

-Bill

I decided to go back to blu-ray after rereading my rant on the first post. Today at Best Buy, I got the Samsung BD-P2550 Blu-ray with its HQV processor.

Glad to hear it. Now if there was just more material on BD for those over the age of 15. "Camp Rock" and "Dude-Where's My Car" from the front page of AVS are just depressing reminders of why my PS3s sit idle most of the time.

I decided to go back to blu-ray after rereading my rant on the first post. Today at Best Buy, I got the Samsung BD-P2550 Blu-ray with its HQV processor.

Lol!!! Classic! :)

What was wrong with the ps3? Is the Sammy 2.0 compliant?

Have you kept track of the number of players you have bought the past few years?

-Bill
Nope.

Lol!!! Classic! :)

What was wrong with the ps3? Is the Sammy 2.0 compliant?
On the box its has the wording "BD Live Ready". Nothing is wrong with the PS3. I'm deciding if I should sell it or use it just for games.

Nope.


On the box its has the wording "BD Live Ready". Nothing is wrong with the PS3. I'm deciding if I should sell it or use it just for games.

Well, now that you have a dedicated blu ray player you can sell the ps3 and join us over in the 360 forum with a DEDICATED game machine! :)

Well, now that you have a dedicated blu ray player you can sell the ps3 and join us over in the 360 forum with a DEDICATED game machine! :)
I'm going to buy a Xbox 360 next month.

http://msp221.photobucket.com/albums/dd264/thebitterlegion/Macros/Gifs/Jackson_popcorn.gif

Rofl! :)

I have 7 HD DVD players 2 Blu-ray players and approx 230 combined HD Movies. With that being said, if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't!! If I could sell all my stuff (players & Movies) for what I paid for it, (I average about $10 per movie, $130 per HD DVD player and $350 for Blu-ray (1 PS3 80GB), and I think I got good prices on the stuff I bought, it would all be gone in a flash! If HD DVD had won, I would have stayed with it but as of now, I've put a hold on any more HD buying. I just picked up the Star Trek Season One delivered for under $30, I couldn't resist!!

I can't believe I'm quoting such a thing on the AVSForum. But among the "lay" people, I can remember the rants about CD over vinyl albums, and DVDs over VHS tapes. It seems history repeats itself.

I'm surprised to find anyone on this site seriously believing 90's technology will win over 2000's technology. That's just silly, and not the historic norm. Generally, humans progress and accept technological improvements. This has been demonstrated since the caveman days.

Perhaps the public will eventually reject high definition, and 19" black & white CRT sets with tuners than you turn will once again rule, as will standard VHS. But I suspect anyone who subscribes to this has watched too many apocalypse type movies. Lets stick with reality, can we? And at least pretend this is an AVS Science site, the way it used to be.

Edit: And lets face it, the title of this thread is insane. Anyone who states they would prefer standard definition over high definition after seeing it is just silly/trolling. No one would.

I agree that progress is inevitable. Clearly, HD will replace SD. The only questions are how and when.

Right now the trend still supports DVD. Why? Every week in every market there is more content being put out on DVD v. Blu Ray. Where the content is going is the 'surest' sign of where the industry sees the money is at.

So, while one can invest and wait for Blu Ray to win over SD eventually, the more prudent approach may be to try and enjoy the DVD content in the best way possible.

At least that is how I see it.

I agree that progress is inevitable. Clearly, HD will replace SD. The only questions are how and when.

Right now the trend still supports DVD. Why? Every week in every market there is more content being put out on DVD v. Blu Ray. Where the content is going is the 'surest' sign of where the industry sees the money is at.

So, while one can invest and wait for Blu Ray to win over SD eventually, the more prudent approach may be to try and enjoy the DVD content in the best way possible.

At least that is how I see it.

You nailed it.

watching a movie and music are completely different media and experience. Its not like your gonna one day your gonna be driving, jogging, at a party watching a movie. Record industry has been in a slump over all.

Another factor is the sheer number of free HD movie channels that many people have access to today. In fact, Video on demand won't work for most people unless they are new titles since between Cinemax and Starz and HBO there; just a ton of options. While not as good as Blu Ray, people I find think HD v SD as opposed to full HD and HD Lite like we do here.

Like I said, people will adopt HD.

So, while one can invest and wait for Blu Ray to win over SD eventually, the more prudent approach may be to try and enjoy the DVD content in the best way possible.

At least that is how I see it.

I completely agree with you that there should be better ways to improve SD. XDE isn't it, gimmic at best. To untrained eye, it'll look sharper and more colorful, but adding EE, NR and overstauration of colors is not the way to go.

I completely agree with you that there should be better ways to improve SD. XDE isn't it, gimmic at best. To untrained eye, it'll look sharper and more colorful, but adding EE, NR and overstauration of colors is not the way to go.

I guess. I do not disagree.

But you ought to get a look at my neighbor's plasma. It is so hot it looks like it is ready to go nuclear. Flesh tones look like they've been under a solar lamp for six months. Like they are ready to melt like the nazi's face at the end of the first Indy.

Biggest problem is that they think it looks great.

So, while one can invest and wait for Blu Ray to win over SD eventually, the more prudent approach may be to try and enjoy the DVD content in the best way possible.

I agree that a person like myself who owns 1200+ DVDs must try and enjoy this content in the best way possible (it's the reason why I follow this sub-forum). But I fail to see the relevance to the conversation.

However I'll not agree with the "waiting" for Blu-ray to "win" or any such ridiculous thing. Nor did I with HD DVD, since I started collecting titles two years ago. Nor did I with standard DVD back in '97, when my local store had 10 titles behind locked glass shelves, and everyone was stating how stupid I was since you couldn't record on DVDs.

Yes, I've invested in "failed formats" before. I went duel with Sony Beta and VHS way back before I discovered LD, and later DVD. But this is an AV SCIENCE site, where people are supposed to be in this for an actual hobby - or at least have some passing interest. Obviously the demographic of this site has changed pretty drastically in the past couple years.

And if you think this is "big" money for people actually interested in quality AV, it's actually comparatively cheap compared to most other of my hobbies - such as photography, adventure travel, or bar hopping. OK, kidding about the last one! :D

I completely agree with you that there should be better ways to improve SD. XDE isn't it, gimmic at best. To untrained eye, it'll look sharper and more colorful, but adding EE, NR and overstauration of colors is not the way to go.

I was supposed to check out the XDE tonight but got postponed till tomorrow. But my expectations are low. Initially I thought it was a new chip, but now looks like it's just another implementation on an existing chip.

However, as far as I know IBM, Intel and others are also working on high performance chips for consumer electronics for decoding and upscaling on the hardware side. While these may have DVD applications, they (as far as I know) are designed around online content distribution. The cell architecture is very powerful, but writing the software isn't going to be easy. We'll see.

I agree that a person like myself who owns 1200+ DVDs must try and enjoy this content in the best way possible (it's the reason why I follow this sub-forum). But I fail to see the relevance to the conversation.

However I'll not agree with the "waiting" for Blu-ray to "win" or any such ridiculous thing. Nor did I with HD DVD, since I started collecting titles two years ago. Nor did I with standard DVD back in '97, when my local store had 10 titles behind locked glass shelves, and everyone was stating how stupid I was since you couldn't record on DVDs.

Yes, I've invested in "failed formats" before. I went duel with Sony Beta and VHS way back before I discovered LD, and later DVD. But this is an AV SCIENCE site, where people are supposed to be in this for an actual hobby - or at least have some passing interest. Obviously the demographic of this site has changed pretty drastically in the past couple years.

And if you think this is "big" money for people actually interested in quality AV, it's actually comparatively cheap compared to most other of my hobbies - such as photography, adventure travel, or bar hopping. OK, kidding about the last one! :D

To the contrary I would never say, don't buy Blu Ray because DVD is good enough! Just the opposite. I would say, definitely buy and enjoy Blu Ray. But, at this point you have to keep your options open since there may be content you like that is not going to be on Blu Ray for awhile that is on DVD and no content that will be on Blu Ray but not DVD. Also, the trade off would have been easier if DVD was sub standard compared to Blu Ray.But the plain fact is that it often looks better than what is being passed of as HD on cable and sattelite! I have seen DVD on a 10 ft screen and it was still good looking. VHS had no such advantage.

I am not sure there was ever a time when one could not copy a DVD movie onto a hard drive. Was there? In any case, I started collecting DVDs when I started on my media server. It was great to be able to browse and play a movie from the couch. Same reason I like Apple TV. The convenience factor is great. Blu Ray from a convenience factor has gone backwards compared to DVD is some ways. DVD was better than VHS in every single way possible that I can think of. It was a complete no-contest. DVD was designed for the digital world and integrated perfectly with the PC. Blu Ray is simply a better DVD. The question is, will people adopt a better DVD? I believe yes, if all PCs start shipping with Blu Ray drives instead of DVD.

Originally Posted by Star56
Regular DVD's are just plain nasty to watch after the HD experience.


:rolleyes:Now that is just the silliest comment in this thread...


100% agree.

I really don't get how anyone could go back to dvd after owning blu-ray unless they had a non HDTV.

I would rather wait for movies to come on Cable HD than watch a DVD anymore. And even Cable HD is just disgusting to me now.

I sense some bitterness about the loss of many peoples favorite format.




Even if you "wish" upon a star....HDDVD isn't coming back no matter who you are.

Bingo BTBuck1,

I'm one such person. I can't stand Sony and avoid their products whenever I can. HD-DVD should have won and would have been more accepted at this stage had they won. I have to give credit to Sony for including the drive in their PS3. Without the PS3 the format would have failed. For that I am bitter. They let a game console decide the next HD format but life moves on. Instead of going Blu, I download HD *.mkv's and purchase DVD's. Anything to avoid the Sony brand. I do have a HD-DVD / Blu-Ray combo drive in my HTPC, but it is made by LG. :) I do have some Blu-Ray movies, but most were given as gifts. I'm still too bitter to go purchase a movie on Blu-Ray and I don't see that changing for awhile. I think had other options not opened up I could have been talked into purchasing Blu-Ray sooner. Now I don't have to. HD VOD is coming on my Directv DVR. Xbox 360 has 720P download content, Apple TV has HD download content and many more are on the way. I agree with other posters here that Blu-Ray will not be "Killed Off" anytime soon, but made "Less Relevent" is all I'm looking for. I think having all the other HD options makes Blu-Ray less relevent. The VHS to DVD transition didn't have the competetion from cable companies, satellite companies, FiOS, Apple, Microsoft, etc... All with DVR's or other ways to get the same content at a lesser price point. I'll let you stand on your soap box and yell it's not "True 1080P" all you want, but only 1 out of 1000 would be able to tell the difference between the blu-ray disc and the 720P download from Apple TV or Xbox 360. MP3 is less "real" quality, but can the average person really tell you which is the MP3 and which is the CD? Lets also face some other realities. Joe and Jane America don't have 100+ inch screens. I have a 52 inch LCD and nobody in my "McMansion" coldisac has anything bigger. Oh well, it looks like the 9 year olds that wanted PS3's got more then they wished for and now the rest of us are stuck with Blu-Ray as a result. Eventurally this too shall pass I just hope all the other options open up and make Blu-Ray a small player in the HD marketplace.

Bingo BTBuck1,

I'm one such person. I can't stand Sony and avoid their products whenever I can. HD-DVD should have won and would have been more accepted at this stage had they won. I have to give credit to Sony for including the drive in their PS3. Without the PS3 the format would have failed. For that I am bitter. They let a game console decide the next HD format but life moves on. Instead of going Blu, I download HD *.mkv's and purchase DVD's. Anything to avoid the Sony brand. I do have a HD-DVD / Blu-Ray combo drive in my HTPC, but it is made by LG. :) I do have some Blu-Ray movies, but most were given as gifts. I'm still too bitter to go purchase a movie on Blu-Ray and I don't see that changing for awhile. I think had other options not opened up I could have been talked into purchasing Blu-Ray sooner. Now I don't have to. HD VOD is coming on my Directv DVR. Xbox 360 has 720P download content, Apple TV has HD download content and many more are on the way. I agree with other posters here that Blu-Ray will not be "Killed Off" anytime soon, but made "Less Relevent" is all I'm looking for. I think having all the other HD options makes Blu-Ray less relevent. The VHS to DVD transition didn't have the competetion from cable companies, satellite companies, FiOS, Apple, Microsoft, etc... All with DVR's or other ways to get the same content at a lesser price point. I'll let you stand on your soap box and yell it's not "True 1080P" all you want, but only 1 out of 1000 would be able to tell the difference between the blu-ray disc and the 720P download from Apple TV or Xbox 360. MP3 is less "real" quality, but can the average person really tell you which is the MP3 and which is the CD? Lets also face some other realities. Joe and Jane America don't have 100+ inch screens. I have a 52 inch LCD and nobody in my "McMansion" coldisac has anything bigger. Oh well, it looks like the 9 year olds that wanted PS3's got more then they wished for and now the rest of us are stuck with Blu-Ray as a result. Eventurally this too shall pass I just hope all the other options open up and make Blu-Ray a small player in the HD marketplace.

:eek:

Paragraphs can be your friends..try them some time. ;)

Bingo BTBuck1,I'm still too bitter to go purchase a movie on Blu-Ray and I don't see that changing for awhile.

What's going to happen when people can no longer find the movies they want on DVD? Some titles are already being replaced by Blu-Ray only releases, and many older DVDs - even those with good transfers - are rapidly going OOP. (word of advice: Grab those obscure Paramount and Columbia titles while you can, folks!)

I would bet that in 4 or 5 years Blu-Ray will be the only home video format that you can buy, and even if it isn't, it's quite possible that future Blu-Ray players and HDTVs will have poor upscaling capabilities. The fact is Sony has a fairly poor record when it comes to releasing catalog titles on DVD, and it's clear they view home video as primarily something to promote new movie releases. I don't doubt for a second they will use Blu-Ray as a means to kill off the possibility of movie libraries.

What's going to happen when people can no longer find the movies they want on DVD? Some titles are already being replaced by Blu-Ray only releases, and many older DVDs - even those with good transfers - are rapidly going OOP. (word of advice: Grab those obscure Paramount and Columbia titles while you can, folks!)

I would bet that in 4 or 5 years Blu-Ray will be the only home video format that you can buy,

I have an extensive BD and HDDVD collection. There is ZERO chance that in 4-5 years BD will completely replace 480i DVDs. Zero. Nada.

You do realize that the majority of Americans don't even own an HD display. You do realize that 90+% of optical sales are 480i DVDs?

In fact, most commentators in this area believe that BD will never supplant DVDS.

What's going to happen when people can no longer find the movies they want on DVD? Some titles are already being replaced by Blu-Ray only releases, and many older DVDs - even those with good transfers - are rapidly going OOP. (word of advice: Grab those obscure Paramount and Columbia titles while you can, folks!)

I would bet that in 4 or 5 years Blu-Ray will be the only home video format that you can buy, and even if it isn't, it's quite possible that future Blu-Ray players and HDTVs will have poor upscaling capabilities. The fact is Sony has a fairly poor record when it comes to releasing catalog titles on DVD, and it's clear they view home video as primarily something to promote new movie releases. I don't doubt for a second they will use Blu-Ray as a means to kill off the possibility of movie libraries.


Number of titles released each week is heavily in favor of DVD. Which title is on Blu Ray but not DVD?

Have you noticed that Warner has several titles on Apple TV HD that are still not on Blu Ray?

EDIT: I did a quick search on Amazon. For the week of Aug 19th, they show 11 Blu Ray v. 500+ DVD releases this week. This is not even close by the wildest estimate. The competition between DVD and Blu Ray is a myth that exists only on places like this forum for now. It's like comparing Zune with the ipod :)

Number of titles released each week is heavily in favor of DVD. Which title is on Blu Ray but not DVD?

There are a number of older titles with bad transfers that seem to have been re-released only on Blu-Ray - THE BOYS FROM BRAZIL, for example.

EDIT: I did a quick search on Amazon. For the week of Aug 19th, they show 11 Blu Ray v. 500+ DVD releases this week.

How many of those 500+ are recent movies, and how many older releases went OOP this week? Checking around, I've noticed that many of the pre-1980s movies in my DVD collection have long since gone OOP. In fact, it appears that only Warner and Criterion are keeping older movies in circulation.

I have to disagree... the first time i ever bought my hdtv I remarked at how crap dvd looked. Even after buying a decent 1080p upscaling dvd player, it still lacked the clarity and color of hd-dvds/blu-ray. I then bought an LG bh200 combo unit that has qdeo upscaling which also passed the HQV reon benchmarks. It is as good as the reon and my dvd's have never looked better. So much so, that my family cannot tell the difference but I can. DVD is only "good enough" to those people who dont want or need anything better. Im sure as more and more people buy hdtv's they will see how dvd really is lacking.

As for the new Toshiba player, I highly doubt it could improve DVD much over a Reon HQV player or Qdeo on my lg bh200...

Play the same movie 1) DVD 2) BLU-RAY via HDMI simultaneously on 2 of the same sets side by side (not split screen)
in the sets "native" mode and then watch. You'll see a big difference. Any other comparison is just conjecture based on memory which we all know is totally reliable! :rolleyes:

CD

Play the same movie 1) DVD 2) BLU-RAY via HDMI simultaneously on 2 of the same sets side by side (not split screen)
in the sets "native" mode and then watch. You'll see a big difference. Any other comparison is just conjecture based on memory which we all know is totally reliable! :rolleyes:

CD

I have to disagree. A couple of nights ago we watched The Emperor and the Assassin on DVD and it looked good enough that even IF it came out on Blu Ray I would not have the urge to upgrade it. The key word here is whether people are satisfied or are simply compromising. For some DVD is an unsatisfactory compromise, and they will jump all over Blu Ray. For others, they are satisfied and selling them a premium product is going to be much harder.

The fact is that people go by their memories and that is what counts. No one in their right mind does the type of stuff I see here - taking a still image and blowing it up 100X and pointing out jaggies etc. People unfortunately take this as entertainment and good enough is good enough. Why else do you think people eat at McDonalds? Surely, if they did a side by side with a burger from Chilis they could tell how bad the Big Mac is. Yet, McDonalds sells billlions and billions. Such is life :)

I have to disagree... the first time i ever bought my hdtv I remarked at how crap dvd looked. Even after buying a decent 1080p upscaling dvd player, it still lacked the clarity and color of hd-dvds/blu-ray. I then bought an LG bh200 combo unit that has qdeo upscaling which also passed the HQV reon benchmarks. It is as good as the reon and my dvd's have never looked better. So much so, that my family cannot tell the difference but I can. DVD is only "good enough" to those people who dont want or need anything better. Im sure as more and more people buy hdtv's they will see how dvd really is lacking.

As for the new Toshiba player, I highly doubt it could improve DVD much over a Reon HQV player or Qdeo on my lg bh200...

I think the same (unlikely that this player could improve on the QDEO or Reon), but it is at a much lower price point. Also, to get a QDEO player after the BH200, you'll have to pay a cool $7,000 (The Pioneer Elite SC09TX)!


The BH 200 is the most under rated DVD upscaler. It is also driving Meridians $150K reference display :eek:

QDEO was probably the #1 reason I bought the BH 200 :)

However, Toshiba could improve upon it with the cell. The cell is a fantastic hardware, but very difficult to write software to. So, let's see. But upscaling to 'practically' HD from SD is possible with the cell. It's being done in non commerical stuff now, but the costs are too high to be viable. Intel, IBM are amongst others working on next gen chips.

There are a number of older titles with bad transfers that seem to have been re-released only on Blu-Ray - THE BOYS FROM BRAZIL, for example.



How many of those 500+ are recent movies, and how many older releases went OOP this week? Checking around, I've noticed that many of the pre-1980s movies in my DVD collection have long since gone OOP. In fact, it appears that only Warner and Criterion are keeping older movies in circulation.


So you're saying re-releasing on Blu Ray counts, but not on DVD. Didn't studios like DVD because of the ability to double and triple dip consumers :confused:

My question was, which title can I buy on Blu Ray that cannot be found on DVD?

I said it once and I will say it again there is no comparison between the audio on sd-dvd and the Dolby Tru hd and DTS-MA HD audio on Blu-Ray. I buy Blu-ray more for the audio then the video.

I have to disagree... the first time i ever bought my hdtv I remarked at how crap dvd looked. Even after buying a decent 1080p upscaling dvd player, it still lacked the clarity and color of hd-dvds/blu-ray. I then bought an LG bh200 combo unit that has qdeo upscaling which also passed the HQV reon benchmarks. It is as good as the reon and my dvd's have never looked better. So much so, that my family cannot tell the difference but I can. DVD is only "good enough" to those people who dont want or need anything better. Im sure as more and more people buy hdtv's they will see how dvd really is lacking.

As for the new Toshiba player, I highly doubt it could improve DVD much over a Reon HQV player or Qdeo on my lg bh200...
I own two Sony 400 mega DVD changers. Hooked up HDMI with 1080i upconversion. I just bought the LG bh200 on Thursday and returned it because of audio dropouts on Blu.

I A+B between the same movie on Blu and DVD. The big difference was audio on my Yamaha 1800 between the two. The LG was better audiowise. The video was a little better but not as much as I thought it was going to be.

I'm waiting on Blu till I know its a better choice for me.

The key word here is whether people are satisfied or are simply compromising. For some DVD is an unsatisfactory compromise, and they will jump all over Blu Ray. For others, they are satisfied and selling them a premium product is going to be much harder.

Because of the high price-point of blu-ray, I would argue that most people are compromising that DVD is 'good enough', even though blu-ray (both in terms of audio and video) is clearly better. Take away the disparity in price between DVD and Blu-ray, and you'd see a lot more people saying that DVD isn't good enough for their high definition sets.

Now of course its impossible to expect their never to be a price disparity between blu-ray and DVD, but we also shouldn't expect blu-ray prices to perpetually stay THAT much higher than DVD in the long-run. Sony knows that in order capture a larger market share for movies its going to have to take steps to make the cost of enjoying blu-ray cheaper, in order to alleviate the price barrier that constricts their adoption rates now.

That being said, if you look at the figures, the adoption rates for blu-ray in its 2 years in the market is pretty impressive.....20% market share currently (http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2008/04/07/sony-expects-50-blu-ray-market-share-split-with-dvd-by-end-of-year/) , and an adoption rate that is outpacing the adoption rate of DVD when it first hit the market. (http://www.**********.com/showthread.php?t=2095)

So even though there are many people out there who think DVD is 'good enough', there are plenty of people out there who are 'jumping all over blu-ray'


Why else do you think people eat at McDonalds? Surely, if they did a side by side with a burger from Chilis they could tell how bad the Big Mac is. Yet, McDonalds sells billlions and billions. Such is life :)

But the fact of the matter is, most people would prefer to eat at chilli's. Taking convenience out of the picture, more people go to Mcdonald's because its cheap. Why do you think they keep making crap quality 99 cent burgers. Because they're designed to cheap out on quality to push sales volumes. Just because a product sells better doesn't necessarily mean its good.

You ever see Supersize me?

In the end why does it matter if DVD outsells blu-ray anyway? Blu-ray is still clearly a higher quality product. This is an AV forum after all.

Unless you own Sony or Toshiba stock, or work for either, sales volumes are nothing but numbers. They have nothing to do with the fact that blu-ray is clearly (no pun intended) a better quality movie experience.

I'll let you in on a little secret.

Modern video compression codecs (as in, codecs made this century) can fit HD quality video onto a regular DVD. The MAFIAA could have easily updated the DVD format for HD support by adding in support for the H.264 codec and adding onto the existing DVD standard. You can easily get an HD quality movie to fit inside 8 gigabytes if you know what you are doing with H.264.

Blu-ray's better quality has nothing at all to do with Bluray. It has to do with the choice to use a codec made this century and tens of gigabytes of space to waste when you choose to remain in last century (using MPEG2).

If the movie isn't fitting inside that space, it's because your either using an archaic codec like MPEG-2 (there are still Bluray disks coming out that use that) or you cut corners and turned off the most CPU intensive features of H.264.

The reason why Bluray is being pushed is twofold :

1.It gives people a reason to go out and shell out hundreds of dollars on a player. DVD players have become a commodity and are not as profitable as they once were. By switching to fancy blue lasers and giving the format a new name and adding in a bunch of superfluous extra features (internet connectivity among others), it's easier to rip people off by convincing them that the price is justified.

2.It has more intrusive digital "rights" management which controls how you can and cannot watch your movies (http://bluraysucks.com/). The bluray player has a built-in "self destruct" if it "thinks" you are trying to pirate something. It supports content degradation (aka fraud if you advertise your movie as high def) for any "signal path" which the MAFIAA has deemed unacceptable to their interests (http://www.writersblocklive.com/boycott/). The internet connectivity in the more advanced bluray players probably involves some sort of phoning home as well to make sure you are a good little prole and don't pirate anything.

Item number two is reason enough for me to stay far far away from the format. About the only use I'd have for a Blu-ray player is a set-top box for playing regular H.264 video files and I can get a better value by doing that with an HTPC instead.

That being said, if you look at the figures, the adoption rates for blu-ray in its 2 years in the market is pretty impressive.....20% market share currently , and an adoption rate that is outpacing the adoption rate of DVD when it first hit the market.


Blu-Ray does not have 20% market share.:rolleyes: HD-DVD and Blu-Ray combined never even reached 5%.

Here is a newer article from the same site:

http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2008/05/01/blu-ray-sales-have-dropped-massively-since-sony-killed-hd-dvd/

I think its time to bury this thread in a time capsule, and come back and open it up in a few years to see what happened. In the meantime, what da ya say we all just move on?

:rolleyes:

I think its time to bury this thread in a time capsule, and come back and open it up in a few years to see what happened. In the meantime, what da ya say we all just move on?

:rolleyes:

This thread has turned out to be a time capsule - from last fall. I thought the "format" crazy kids (from either "side") had left already? Can we somehow get the "S" back in AVS?

I think I'll take another hiatus and check to see if the adults have returned next year. It's ridiculous that you can't even discuss the benefits of high definition here without some kids wishing the "format war" was still going on.

I think its time to bury this thread in a time capsule, and come back and open it up in a few years to see what happened. In the meantime, what da ya say we all just move on?

:rolleyes:

I dont get it.... all YOU have to do to 'move on' is stop reading this thread.

Personally I have found quite a bit of interest in it.

So you're saying re-releasing on Blu Ray counts, but not on DVD. Didn't studios like DVD because of the ability to double and triple dip consumers :confused:

My question was, which title can I buy on Blu Ray that cannot be found on DVD?

There are many previously-released titles which can't be found on Blu-Ray or DVD at this point, which is the way I think Sony wants it.

You're right that most titles are still available in both formats, but if this practice continues, Blu-Ray marketshare will never increase over what it is now. I for one don't believe Sony invested all this money just to create another Betamax. They're clearly going to try and force DVD out of the market, and since BDs will never be cheaper than DVDs, the only way to do it is to allow DVDs to go OOP and replace them with BDs. Just because this practice isn't widespread now doesn't mean it won't become widespread in the future. In fact, I would bet it won't be long before most Columbia titles - like Harryhausen's films, for example - will only be available on Blu-Ray.

Damicatz post is hard for me to understand. But I think he's right about why not to go blu. I've tried two players now and both had issues and returned them.

I have two CX995's and I really like the juke box idea, its more like a library to me.

I may try blu again but not till the players are cheap along with the media. Its really not worth it to me from the stand point the benefits aren't that great over upconversion sd.

BTW: I like reading different points of view, so lets here more, and those that want this thread closed stop reading it.

This thread has turned out to be a time capsule - from last fall. I thought the "format" crazy kids (from either "side") had left already? Can we somehow get the "S" back in AVS?

I think I'll take another hiatus and check to see if the adults have returned next year. It's ridiculous that you can't even discuss the benefits of high definition here without some kids wishing the "format war" was still going on.

Its folly to compare the discussions here to discussions on the format war. HD DVD vs Blu-ray was a 'format war' because both were essentially pushing the same technology under different discs. Fundamentally, the experience provided by both Blu-ray and HD-DVD were identical (although IMO Blu-ray still hasn't caught up to where HD-DVD left off), and the discussions on the two followed a sort of 'fanboyism' based upon who purchased what.

Unlike HD-DVD vs Blu-ray, where people were blindly arguing for one side or the other based on what they've invested themselves in, there is a distinct difference in technology (the science, if you will) between upscaled DVD's and uncompressed high definition discs (blu-ray) and there are legitimate pros and cons for both.

The arena isn't the same as the HD-DVD vs Blu-ray 'war', where the two were so alike that one was bound to fail. There is a place in the market for both DVD and blu-ray today, and the pros and cons of both pieces of technology deserve to be discussed.

Personally I think we'll be seeing both around until digital downloads become a viable replacement for physical media both from a technological standpoint, as well as a logistical one....however long that may take.

Because of the high price-point of blu-ray, I would argue that most people are compromising that DVD is 'good enough', even though blu-ray (both in terms of audio and video) is clearly better. Take away the disparity in price between DVD and Blu-ray, and you'd see a lot more people saying that DVD isn't good enough for their high definition sets.

Now of course its impossible to expect their never to be a price disparity between blu-ray and DVD, but we also shouldn't expect blu-ray prices to perpetually stay THAT much higher than DVD in the long-run. Sony knows that in order capture a larger market share for movies its going to have to take steps to make the cost of enjoying blu-ray cheaper, in order to alleviate the price barrier that constricts their adoption rates now.

That being said, if you look at the figures, the adoption rates for blu-ray in its 2 years in the market is pretty impressive.....20% market share currently (http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2008/04/07/sony-expects-50-blu-ray-market-share-split-with-dvd-by-end-of-year/) , and an adoption rate that is outpacing the adoption rate of DVD when it first hit the market. (http://www.**********.com/showthread.php?t=2095)

So even though there are many people out there who think DVD is 'good enough', there are plenty of people out there who are 'jumping all over blu-ray'




But the fact of the matter is, most people would prefer to eat at chilli's. Taking convenience out of the picture, more people go to Mcdonald's because its cheap. Why do you think they keep making crap quality 99 cent burgers. Because they're designed to cheap out on quality to push sales volumes. Just because a product sells better doesn't necessarily mean its good.

You ever see Supersize me?

In the end why does it matter if DVD outsells blu-ray anyway? Blu-ray is still clearly a higher quality product. This is an AV forum after all.

Unless you own Sony or Toshiba stock, or work for either, sales volumes are nothing but numbers. They have nothing to do with the fact that blu-ray is clearly (no pun intended) a better quality movie experience.

I am not arguing about whether I prefer watching DVD over Blu Ray. Since, this forum is not just S but also V, I was saying that the disparity in content makes it hard for someone like me to give up DVD at this point in time. Will it happen? I am betting it will, but at the current rate it will take a few years.

You can't compare 1997 with 2007, the dynamics are totally different.

Getting a movie or TV show on blu-ray is a treat, but it doesn't make watching plain 'ol DVDs painful. I can enjoy well-mastered DVDs as much as I enjoy watching BDs.

I have a 58" 720p plasma, a 42" 1080p plasma, and a PS3 on both of them.

Front projectors are another story of course, but Mr. & Mrs. average Joe are going to be hard pressed to upgrade on picture quality improvement alone. The studios know this, and that's why BD-java and the "new internet interactivity" is being unleashed (oh joy.)

When I can get the movie King Ralph on blu-ray I'll switch!

Very simple, Bluray will not overtake DVD until the disks hit 14 dollars and the players hit 100-130 bucks. At the rate Sony is dropping the prices this will take another 3 years IF they can even drop prices that low. By then downloading HD content will be the the number one choice.

Very simple, Bluray will not overtake DVD until the disks hit 14 dollars and the players hit 100-130 bucks. At the rate Sony is dropping the prices this will take another 3 years IF they can even drop prices that low. By then downloading HD content will be the the number one choice.

Hard to say. ISPs may begin charging for bandwidth, making VOD services from the cable companies the only real option.

I know many people that bought hundreds of DVDs at $15-$25 and vow not to do it again because they rarely watch them.

With DVDs priced at $5 to $10 at the check out aisles of big box stores they are at disposable prices. I often buy one, watch it and then give it away. I won't spend $20-$30 for a BD that I plan to watch once.

I stop buying movies years ago. With services like blockbuster online and nextflix, whats the point?? I get 3 different movies a week, no point buying movies.

There are many previously-released titles which can't be found on Blu-Ray or DVD at this point, which is the way I think Sony wants it.

You're right that most titles are still available in both formats, but if this practice continues, Blu-Ray marketshare will never increase over what it is now. I for one don't believe Sony invested all this money just to create another Betamax. They're clearly going to try and force DVD out of the market, and since BDs will never be cheaper than DVDs, the only way to do it is to allow DVDs to go OOP and replace them with BDs. Just because this practice isn't widespread now doesn't mean it won't become widespread in the future. In fact, I would bet it won't be long before most Columbia titles - like Harryhausen's films, for example - will only be available on Blu-Ray.

Many titles go OOP just to come back later. It doesn't mean it is gone for good but just that the last production run is gone. Sometimes they wait a little bit before doing another run or do a special edition.

the James Bond movies have gone OOP more then once. Gee...they have come back multiple times now. Go figure.

A similar topic came about when dvd came out about switching from laserdisc. dvd has had less releases than laserdisc and continuing the trend will be blu-ray with less releases than dvd!

A similar topic came about when dvd came out about switching from laserdisc. dvd has had less releases than laserdisc and continuing the trend will be blu-ray with less releases than dvd!

What the **** are you talking about? :eek:

again because they rarely watch them.

With DVDs priced at $5 to $10 at the check out aisles of big box stores they are at disposable prices. I often buy one, watch it and then give it away. I won't spend $20-$30 for a BD that I plan to watch once.

Hah..... dont bother shopping over here in Aus either.

eg. I can get Transformers (2007) DVD for $11.00 or I could buy the Bluray for between $45.00 and $49.95. Amusingly the $45.54 'sale' item says thats an 8.9% saving. Generous eh?

Getting a movie or TV show on blu-ray is a treat, but it doesn't make watching plain 'ol DVDs painful. I can enjoy well-mastered DVDs as much as I enjoy watching BDs.



I agree. However, I can say that getting that new BD just doesn't give me the same warm and fuzzy feeling I got back in '98 when I went to Best Buy every week and bought a new DVD or two. I feel like I can easily live without BD, but DVD was really a treat over crappy ole VHS back then!

I will continue to buy BD concerts, but only certain movies. I watch concerts over and over again and with the lossless sound that isn't available on a standard DVD there is no comparison.

I will continue to buy BD concerts, but only certain movies. I watch concerts over and over again and with the lossless sound that isn't available on a standard DVD there is no comparison.

pretty much what i'm doing. gotta have my concerts. and a few movies, most of which arent even on bd yet.
ie, the space operas, the 8 hellraiser flics, i jones, bond, etc. may be a long time before they ever are on bd.

What the **** are you talking about? :eek:
Agree...There were less DVD releases when LaserDisc was king initially, but DVD had many big selling points (size and the you don't have to flip the disc factor) that help to kill LD.

In today's war the improvements are more slight than major.

I'm holding off on BD for now as I would like to see Sony drop the price of the PS3 (they should've introduced a 40GB $299 version this fall instead of making you buy the upgraded $399 80GB version). Plus I'm contend with building by HD DVD library as movies can be had for $5-$12.

I must say as a newbie to the forums and getting into the AV scene, I love Bluray and can see a difference on my 52" A530. I also have people come over and say the ps3 unconverted dvds look just as good. I guess one phrase can sum this debate up. "Perception is reality" and most people i have met that can care less and say unconverted dvds the same thing. So i will go with those saying dvd will be around a while. Now onto my self battle of returning the ps3 for the samsung BD-2550. Call me nuts but i want my receiver to do the decoding and light up which its doing :)

PS: On the subject of rentals, I don't bother anymore. I watch my movies over and over, i don't get sick of them easily. Then i take a 2 month break or so and go back to those I haven't watched last cycle.

Agree...There were less DVD releases when LaserDisc was king initially, but DVD had many big selling points (size and the you don't have to flip the disc factor) that help to kill LD.

In today's war the improvements are more slight than major.

I'm holding off on BD for now as I would like to see Sony drop the price of the PS3 (they should've introduced a 40GB $299 version this fall instead of making you buy the upgraded $399 80GB version). Plus I'm contend with building by HD DVD library as movies can be had for $5-$12.

Hey I love dvd as much as anyone, but I still believe laserdisc had more releases. Laserdiscs were out before computers were really big thus there are still titles that were not accounted for then and still are not today or may never be. Just go on ebay find a laserdisc for sale that you think looks rare and try to find any info on it! The laserdisc database site doesn't even have info on some of the ebay titles I've tried to find info on!

I will continue to buy BD concerts, but only certain movies. I watch concerts over and over again and with the lossless sound that isn't available on a standard DVD there is no comparison.


90% of the movies I own on Blu Ray are concerts and documentaries. I knew I had to buy Blu Ray when I was at a Tweeter where they had Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds Live in Radio City on! Since then, I've bought pretty much all the concerts and performances

I also plan on buying Blu Ray for the new titles that come out and when the Blu Ray version is a substantial improvement over a DVD that I really like - Patton, Passage to India, Men in Black and House of Flying Daggers come to mind for titles where I upgraded because of the audio or video improvements.

I believe it'll take some time for the releases to catch up and once I feel that missing DVD would also get me to lose a sliver of content, v. now where BD only provides a sliver of content I'll make the final transition :D

Hah..... dont bother shopping over here in Aus either.

eg. I can get Transformers (2007) DVD for $11.00 or I could buy the Bluray for between $45.00 and $49.95. Amusingly the $45.54 'sale' item says thats an 8.9% saving. Generous eh?

Well, on that piont, I remember buying a video tape (VHS) for a little over $60.00 buckaroos..... UGH! :eek:

My first Curtis Mathis top load VCR ( with a wired remote control, woohoo! ) cost a little over $1200.00. :rolleyes:
So, this time I will wait a while before I purchase a BD player.

Well, on that piont, I remember buying a video tape (VHS) for a little over $60.00 buckaroos..... UGH! :eek:

My first Curtis Mathis top load VCR ( with a wired remote control, woohoo! ) cost a little over $1200.00. :rolleyes:
So, this time I will wait a while before I purchase a BD player.

I guess the difference this time around is that there are excellent alternatives to use whilst we wait and see what happens! ;-)

I stop buying movies years ago. With services like blockbuster online and nextflix, whats the point?? I get 3 different movies a week, no point buying movies.

That only works if you're a watch-it-once type of person.

I want a library of films I have access to at any point with no waiting from the Post Office or Internet and access to special features like commentaries and deleted scenes.

Thus my preference for discs, and BD for that matter.

As an aside, once again the argument about BD not taking off until players hit $150 or less is specious in the face of the fact that DVD was popular when the cheapest players were $399 or more - the same price BD players are now.

As an aside, once again the argument about BD not taking off until players hit $150 or less is specious in the face of the fact that DVD was popular when the cheapest players were $399 or more - the same price BD players are now.

ONLY because movies on a little silver disc was such a novel idea at the time with no rewinding of tapes...or the possibilitiy of the disc being 'eaten' by the player...Not to mention Dolby Digital...which hands down beat the snot out of Dolby Pro Logic...

I...like most at the time...didn't get my first DVD player untill they got to $150...

Price has been mentioned a lot in this thread but I haven't seen a lot written about load and response times. When I had my HD-A2 (not to reveal my sony-hating, toshiba/MS fanboy bias ;)), it seemed like I had to jump through hoops to get a movie to play.

From what I gather the situation isn't getting much better on Blu-ray right now. I hope response times and disc compatibility issues get ironed out eventually.

One more thing--I don't understand how people think that DVD is good enough. I know watching HD football is a major draw for most people but even so it seems like you'd want HD movies as another avenue of justifying paying (what was until recently) an insane amount for a TV. If SD is good enough, stick with a SDTV. As for me, I've downloaded hd files that--although they're bit starved--in my opinion look a lot better than SD DVDs.

Much of Comcast's HD channels and content is less than great and only marginally better than the quality of my up-converting Oppo player. Many times my up-converted DVDs look better than some of the content they call HD. Though most HD sports and things like the Cooking Channel do look great.

I'm waiting for HD movie downloading to mature, I'm not spending another 300-400 bucks on more equipment like a Blu-ray player.

In addition to the common concerns about Blu-ray, consider the following:

1. A THX scientist recently stated it's too late for Blu, suggesting its time for more convenient technology (ie, flash cards):
http://www.ohgizmo.com/2008/03/27/thx-chief-scientist-says-blu-ray-is-too-late/

2. Last year everyone scoffed at the possibility for such services to become mainstream, but Amazon just sealed a deal with Sony for streaming over
40,OOO titles! Netflix sealed its deal with Microsoft only last month.
With built-in ethernet/Wifi already being added directly to TV's, and other equipment (ie, PS3), streaming is going to be VERY possible and VERY easy:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/technology/17amazon.html?partner=rssnyt&

3. Blu isn't set to overtake DVD until 2012--A LOT can happen with technology in four years.
http://www.electronichouse.com/article/ema_report_predicts_blu_ray_to_outsell_dvd_in_2012/C45

The above is just a sampling of what's happening now.

Try Apple TV. You'll have more HD titles than Blu Ray to choose from. The interface is great. You start watching a movie within 30 secs and the PQ is superior to Cable VoD. Cost is also usually a $1 less per movie (compared to Cox).

If that happens, they probably stop making blu ray as well. I don't see regular DVD disappear any time soon.

SDF DVD is already king, so Blu ray and their overpriced players will probably die out sooner than DVD, then we'll have another format that uses cards or cartridges instead of discs. :rolleyes:

I have too many DVD's that will never be on blu ray because they are "B" titles and older releases. :eek:

As for me, I've downloaded hd files that--although they're bit starved--in my opinion look a lot better than SD DVDs.

That depends on the quality of your sd player and other factors

...I have too many DVD's that will never be on blu ray because they are "B" titles and older releases. :eek:

That's an extremely important factor.
Only very recently have many older/obscure titles FINALLY begun to show up on DVD, and there seems to be no benefit to having them in BD format.

Who knows if they'll even make it to BD? Or if we'll have to wait ANOTHER 10 years.

That's an extremely important factor.
Only very recently have many older/obscure titles FINALLY begun to show up on DVD, and there seems to be no benefit to having them in BD format.

I agree a lot of those 1980's-90's direct to video stock footage actioners arent even shot for such a high res format, plus most of the stock footage is older than the original charachter scenes shot by the director

2) I don't like Sony. They have never been a consumer friendly company and they are always trying to push proprietory formats.

Beta (Sony) was better than VHS, and DVD is a "proprietary format" you're heading back to. do you not want newer better formats? or should we all be using 8-tracks and VHS still? i mean, i don't buy sony HT equipment anymore, but i buy the software.

Ok. Everybody has had a chance to make their point and this thread is all over the place. We're here to talk about SD DVD players.

larry