<img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117109&d=1219051006"hspace="12"align="left">
<b>The Review at a Glance: </b> (max score: 5 )

<b>Film:</b> <img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109946&d=1210373692 ">

<b>Extras:</b> <img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109948&d=1210373699">

<b> Audio/Video total rating:</b>
<p> ( Max score: 100 )
<font color=darkorange><b><h2>94</h2></b></font>
<br><br><br>
<b>Studio and Year:</b> Paramount - 2007
<b>MPAA Rating:</b> PG-13
<b>Feature running time:</b> 143 Minutes
<b>Genre:</b> Action/Adventure/Sci-Fi

<b>Disc Format:</b> BD-50
<b>Encoding:</b> AVC (MPEG-4)
<b>Video Aspect:</b> 2.35:1
<b>Resolution:</b> 1080p/24
<br>
<b>Audio Format(s):</b> English Dolby TrueHD 5.1, English/French/Spanish Dolby Digital 5.1
<b>Subtitles:</b>English, English SDH, French, Portuguese, Spanish
<b>Starring:</b>Shia LaBeouf, Megan Fox, Bernie Mac, Josh Duhamel, Tyrese Gibson, Rachael Taylor, Anthony Anderson, Jon Voight, John Turturro, Michael O'Neill, Kevin Dunn, Julie White, Amaury Nolasco, Peter Cullen, Hugo Weaving, Mark Ryan, Jess Harnell, Robert Foxworth
<b>Directed by:</b> Michael Bay
<b>Music by:</b> Steve Jablonsky
<b>Written by:</b> Robert Orci & Alex Kurtzman
<b>Region Code:</b> A

<b>Blu-ray Disc release Date:</b> September 2, 2008

<br><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<center><font color=Green><b><h2>"More than meets the eye"</h2></b></font></center>

<h4>Film Synopsis:</h4></b></font><p>From director Michael Bay and executive producer Steven Spielberg comes a thrilling battle between the heroic Autobots® and the evil Decepticons®. When their epic struggle comes to Earth, all that stands between the Decepticons® and ultimate power is a clue held by young Sam Witwicky (Shia LaBeouf). Unaware that he is mankind’s last chance for survival, Sam and Bumblebee, his robot disguised as a car, are in a heart-pounding race against an enemy unlike anything anyone has seen before. </p>

<h4>My Take:</h4></b></font><img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117104&d=1219050806"hspace="6"align="right"> <p>I was a teenager when Transformers were all the rage among young kids in the eighties. I honestly never once watched the cartoon but I can recall the theme pretty well. When this film was released last year I just didn’t have any interest in seeing it in the theater. I mean come on, a movie about Hasbro toys from the eighties? Well there was so much hype surrounding it after release and then its impending release on high definition HD DVD I figured I better get in on it. Well I am glad that I did. Let’s be honest this is not great cinema or award winning acting, but does it really need to be? This is an entertaining film that features cool special effects, great action, decent characters, and just the right amount of imagination to bring us all back to a time when we believed in things that were not possible. A prime example is during the battle on the freeway in chapter 19 when Optimus is battling the Decepticon and the little boy and his mother almost collide with them. The kid sees two giant toys rumbling in the middle of the freeway and his first reaction isn’t fear but is simply “Cool Mom!” Character development is good enough that we get a feel for the varying sets of individuals, which includes the alien robots (to a lesser degree), from each perspective. The main players, LaBeouf and Fox have good onscreen appeal and chemistry that works. The rest of the cast are divided up into groups who are working to deal with the alien robot threat. This is a big budget production that features solid casting and a director who is no stranger to action/adventure films. Like him or not Michael Bay knows how to make action flicks that deliver plenty of high octane. This film has some incredible action based sequences that are just so much fun to watch. The special effects are dazzling and include some of the best CGI that I have seen. For me this film is the kind that I like to revisit from time to time. It doesn‘t have a higher purpose or require strict attention to detail. All you have to do is sit back and enjoy the ride.</p>





<h4>Parental Guide:</h4></b></font><p>The rating is for intense sequences of sci-fi action, violence, brief sexual humor and language.</p>



<br><b>AUDIO/VIDEO - By The Numbers:
</b><font color=DarkOrange><b>REFERENCE</b></font> = 92-100 / </b><font color=teal><b>EXCELLENT</b></font> = 83-91 / </b><font color=green><b>GOOD</b></font> = 74-82 / </b><font color=yellowgreen><b>AVERAGE</b></font> = 65-73 / </b><font color=red><b>BELOW AVERAGE</b></font> = under 65 </b>

<em>**My audio/video ratings are based upon a comparative made against other high definition media/blu-ray disc.**</em>


<b>(Each rating is worth 4 points with a max of 5 per category)</b>

<font color=darkorange><b><h4>Audio: 96</h4></b></font>
<b><ul>
<li>Dynamics: <img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109948&d=1210373699"></li>
<li>Low frequency extension: <img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109947&d=1210373699"></li>
<li>Surround Sound presentation: <img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109948&d=1210373699"></li>
<li>Clarity/Detail: <img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109948&d=1210373699"></li>
<li>Dialogue Reproduction: <img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109947&d=1210373699">
</b></li></ul>


<font color=darkorange><b><h4>Video: 92</h4></b></font>
<b>(Each rating is worth 4 points with a max of 5 per category)</b>

<b><ul>
<li>Resolution/Clarity: <img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109948&d=1210373699"></li>
<li>Black level/Shadow detail: <img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109947&d=1210373699"></li>
<li>Color reproduction: <img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109947&d=1210373699"></li>
<li>Fleshtones: <img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109946&d=1210373699"></li>
<li>Compression: <img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109948&d=1210373699"</b></li></ul> <p><b><I>Transformers</I> comes to Blu-ray Disc featuring 1080p AVC encoded video that has an average bitrate of 32 mbps and lossless Dolby TrueHD 5.1 channel audio that has an average bitrate of 4.1 mbps.</b></p>
<img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117106&d=1219050829"hspace="6"align="left"> <p>Both the audio and video are relatively high bitrate encodings which translate positively to this presentation. When <I>Transformers</I> was released last year on HD DVD it was easily Paramount’s most ambitious home video release. Fans were somewhat baffled by Paramount’s decision to go with lossy Dolby Digital Plus audio rather than lossless Dolby TrueHD. The end result was quite impressive but many were still left wondering about the inherent potential in lossless’ high fidelity. The other issue was that many felt the low frequency effects channel in the mix was not reproducing bass that was consistent with the dynamic characteristics in the remainder of the soundtrack. I was and still am a member of that group. My feeling was never that the bass sounded thin but it didn’t have the weighty impact and dynamic presence to keep pace with the soundtrack’s explosive elements. When Paramount announced that Transformers was being released on Blu-ray with a TrueHD sound mix I looked forward to checking it out. </p><p>The mix is an aggressive one that utilizes the system to its full potential. Dynamic range is extensive as there are transient peaks that could be potentially threatening to some systems at reference levels. The audio bombards the senses with a plethora of hard hitting and detail rich sound effects. Surround activity is abundant with purposeful near field and broad atmospheric placement that creates a sound field that is immersive and engaging. Balance between the front and rear soundstages is spot on so that sounds that pass between the speakers going in either direction is done so in a seamless fashion. Steve Jablonsky’s music sounded elegant with succulent detail and comprehensive instrumentation. Low frequencies are rendered cleanly with authoritative depth, and room filling resonance that increased in intensity where appropriate. Here are a few of my favorite scenes for checking out the dynamic potential on this soundtrack: <I> Chap 2 - The opening fade in, The EMP blast at the base. Chap 8 - The Skorponok Decepticon attack in the desert/village. Chap 9 - The attack by the Decepticon police vehicle. Chap 10 - The chase by the Decepticon police vehicle and battle with Bumble Bee. Chap - 19 The highway battle. Chap 21 - Take your pick.</I>Dialogue was well articulated throughout and exhibited excellent tonal distinction. I would have preferred for its output to have been just a hair higher which would make dialogue a bit more prominent. This is an aurally stimulating sound design that is truly capable of creating a thrilling home theater experience.</p><p>The video presentation was on par with the audio and looked superb. Images exhibited high level detail, razor sharpness and resolute definition that brought out the lifelike textures captured by the camera. Dimensional perspective had an infinite appeal that was visually arresting at times. I never saw any softening or ill effects from mixing CGI content with real people or objects. Colors were deeply saturated with wide variable textures and eye catching quality that was accentuated by the video’s higher contrast. Whites were on the hot side but maintained good delineation so that details were visible during brightly lit scenes. Flesh tones were mildly affected by this, especially those with lighter complexions, but overall the balance was acceptable. There were a few exceptions where faces had a golden glow to them which was obvious but didn’t seem out of place. Blacks were rich, deep and dynamic which enhanced sequences containing mixed content that had both light and dark elements. Shadow detail was very good but not among the best that I have seen. Grain was visible in fine layers and looked excellent overall.</p><p>This is a reference quality audio/video presentation that can be used to demonstrate the potential of your home theater system.</p><img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117110&d=1219051006"hspace="6"align="right">
<p>I ran a few comparisons between the Blu-ray Disc and the HD DVD. Upon comparing the quality of the video I saw no discernible difference between the two. I compared the lossy Dolby Digital Plus and Lossless Dolby TrueHD sound tracks. After level matching I ran all of the aforementioned sequences. I powered up both players and cued up the beginning of each sequence. I watched them one at a time switching back and forth. There have been reports (two from writers whose opinions I respect) of a 6 to 10 decibel increase in volume on the TrueHD mix. I did not experience that in my evaluation/comparison. What I did notice was an improvement in low frequency reproduction. It seems as though the minor attenuation (for lack of a better word) of the bass present on the HD DVD is no longer present. The bass has better tactility and improved depth which can be felt not just in the room but within the body as well. The improvement here seems to be related to the deeper bass frequencies and is most appreciable in the scenes in the film that contain lower bass content. That is not strictly the case though. An example would be in chapter 18 where the cryogenic freezing apparatus where Megatron is being held has begun to fail. There is an alarm that begins to sound and the scene switches the control room. There is a low bass tone that accompanies that transition before the scene switches again. It was detectable on the HD DVD but on the Blu-ray Disc it could be felt as wave of punchy low bass energy. The beginning of chapter 2 (mentioned earlier) definitely had a more distinct and powerful low bass presence than on the HD DVD. I ran these scenes along with the others mentioned earlier in this review 3 times each and double checked to ensure that output levels were the same. I also ran these same scenes using the PS3 rather than bit streaming the audio from my Panasonic and Samsung players and the results were the same. I am satisfied that the Blu-ray version of Transformers does in fact offer an improvement in this area over the HD DVD. I want to be clear that the low frequency effects on the HD DVD are quite good and the difference here is not night and day but is certainly noticeable. As far as any appreciable differences in the overall sound quality I would say that if present they are minimal.</p>

<h4><b>Bonus Features:</b></h4></font><img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117103&d=1219050806"hspace="6"align="left">

<p>The bonus content is abundant and is all offered in high definition. The numerous featurette style documentaries and short segments offers viewers a 360 degree look at the production from concept to implementation to filming. You can go as deep or as shallow as you like. This is essentially the same content that was available on the HD DVD. I was unable to access the BD-Live features and kept getting an error when I tried. I tried several other BD-Live enabled discs that I had on hand and they worked just fine. I can only assume that the features have not yet been enabled or there is a sever issue. Either way I am sure that all will be well by release day. Enjoy !</p><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>

<p><b>Disc 1:</b></p><ul>
<li>Commentary by Director Michael Bay </li>
<li>Transformers H.U.D. </li>
<li>BD-Live Access/Features </li></ul>

<b>Disc 2:</b><ul><li>Our World: </li></ul><ol>
<li>The story sparks </li>
<li>Human allies </li>
<li>I fight giant robots </li>
<li>Battleground </li></ol><ul>
<li>Their War: </li></ul><ol>
<li>Rise of the robots</li>
<li>Autobots roll out </li>
<li>Decepticons strike </li>
<li>Inside the All Spark </li>
<li>Transformer Tech Inspector </li></ol><ul>
<li> More Than Meets The Eye</li></ul><ol>
<li>From script to sand: The Skorponok desert attack </li>
<li>Concepts</li>
<li>3 Trailers</li></ol><img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117108&d=1219050900"hspace="6"align="right">






<h4>Final Thoughts:</h4></b></font>

<p><I>Transformers</I> is an action packed adventure that appeals to viewers at various levels. It contains memorable characters, great action/special effects, and thanks to high definition Blu-ray disc, superlative audio/video quality and a host of special features that fans can spend hours enjoying. This two disc set has found a home in my collection and has been added to my list of recommended Blu-ray Discs.</p>





<img src="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=109949&d=1210373731" align=left>
<br><br><br><br>
<br><b>Ralph Potts</b>
<em>AVS Forum Blu-ray Reviews</em>



<br><br><b>Reference Review System:</b>

<strong>
JVC DLA-RS1x 1080p High Definition Front Projector
Carada Precision Brilliant White 96" Screen
Oppo 970HD universal disc DVD Player (480i HDMI)
Toshiba HD-XA2 HD DVD Player (HDMI Audio/Video)
Panasonic DMP-BD30 Blu-ray disc Player (HDMI Audio/Video)
Sony Playstation 3 Blu-ray disc Player (HDMI Audio/Video)
Marantz DV7001 Universal Disc Player
Denon AVR 5308CI THX Ultra 2 Preamp/Video Processor
Outlaw Audio Model 7700 seven channel amplifier
B&K Reference 200.7 Series 2 seven Channel amplifier
Canton "Ergo" Series speakers
Axiom Audio QS8 Quadpolar speakers
SV Sound PB-13 Ultra (Rosenut finish)
APC AV S15BLK Power Conditioner/Surge Protector
Wireworld, VizionWare, Audioquest, Best Deal Cables - Audio/Video/Speaker Cabling
Cool Components - CP-CP102 cooling package
</strong>

Thanks Ralph for the thorough review. Been looking forward to this one for a long time.

Great review! I'll probably stick with my HD-DVD copy since I don't have a sub(live in an apartment) and there doesn't appear to be any noticeable improvement in PQ on the BD.

As far as any appreciable differences in the overall sound quality I would say that if present they are minimal.

Exactly how I feel, Ralph. Once again, another fine review!

Great review as always Ralph, I'm truly content, and at the moment don't feel the need to go out a purchase the blu ray version.
I'm one of those who didn't feel the bass was lacking when the initial release of the Hd version came out which at the time I was using an Onkyo 885 with JL sub.
Watching this movies several time in the theater, including an Imax presentation I felt the bass was on par, especially in the first base attack.

Thank you again for an amazing unbiased review and your efforts on bring us a real world look.

Bravo, I'm looking forward to any other future review especially the Godfather with the same excitement!


DJoel

I will probably get the BD in addition to the HD-DVD which I already have.
Werent there some who predicted that the increased capacity & bitrate on BD would blow the HD-DVD away, especially the PQ. Didnt Bay say something to this effect also???? As many said "time will/did tell". I guess the blow was just a mild breeze instead of a typhoon as predicted!

So does the blu ray version have proper bass at the beginning with the shockwave?? There was a huge discussion about the hd dvd version lacking bass and was encoded wrong last year.

Very, very interesting.......
I was close to purchasing a used copy of "Transformers" in HD DVD since it is considered by many to be a reference disc, but when news of its release on Blu-ray was announced I thought it best to wait to see if there would be any appreciable differences.
Well its good to know that my wait was not in vain (I do like my bass).

Interesting that the AVC encode showed no appreciable difference to VC-1 (since VC-1 is supposedly a more efficient encoding algorithm)...... also I've read that Paramount tried VC-1 but felt that MP4 looked best........ Who knows.
I'm just going to buy the Blu-ray disc now and enjoy.

Thanks for the review.

Reece

Ralph,

Wouldn't turning up the sub level a bit when listening to the HD DVD in essence give the same affect?

Thanks,
Tom

So does the blu ray version have proper bass at the beginning with the shockwave?? There was a huge discussion about the hd dvd version lacking bass and was encoded wrong last year.

Greetings,

There would be no way to determine if the bass was proper unless we knew what it was intended to sound like. The HD DVD had ample bass response during that scene. The Blu-ray improves upon that in my opinion.

Cheers,

Great review!
:)

Ralph,

Wouldn't turning up the sub level a bit when listening to the HD DVD in essence give the same affect?

Thanks,
Tom

Greetings,

Tom, the only problem with that would be that it would increase subwoofer output across the board and make it too prominent. The improvement I see is not so much in volume but is in depth/response.

Cheers,

Interesting that the AVC encode showed no appreciable difference to VC-1 (since VC-1 is supposedly a more efficient encoding algorithm)...... also I've read that Paramount tried VC-1 but felt that MP4 looked best........ Who knows.

Where you can you find a disc that has a VC-1 encode of Transformers?

The HD-DVD was MPEG4 as well.

Ralph - there's a scene at the end where Shia and Megan are talking about 'aren't you glad you got in the car' or something like that. And some of Megans lines have this weird 'MP3 sound quality to them' did you notice that? I think Jon Voight's endind monologue does the same thing.

Those low bass differences were exactly what I was expecting in the difference between the TrueHD and DD+. The audio was strong to begin with, that would have to be the only place it could be improved.

Ralph

I haven't made a point of reading your reviews before now but will be doing so from now on. I actually still own an EP30 (UK) but sold off my 40+ HD DVDs, all apart from my favourite disc....yup, Transformers.

I've not even seen the Blu-Ray yet, but yours sounds like an honest appraisal of what I would have expected to find, having seen the film many times on HD DVD ie practically identical video, and very little difference in audio too.

During the war I was pro HD DVD and felt that any compromises necessary due to storage and bandwidth limitations, such as DD+ on Transformers, if handled with care should make next to zero difference to the end product.

Since the end of the war I've embraced Blu-Ray fully (I already had many discs being a PS3 owner) and must admit that the fact that the format can handle high bitrate encodes with 24bit lossless, all without breaking sweat, is actually a real attraction. I look forward to eventually getting this on Blu-Ray.

Also, a fine appraisal of the film itself. Too many people feel the need to jump in where this film is concerned and start calling it garbage. For me, it was a fairly original and fast paced blockbuster, that just happened to have incredible sound design and unquestionably the greatest special effects to date. Owning a home format that can reproduce this in a superior fashion to most commercial movie theatres is a real boon.....long live Blu-Ray!!

Greetings,

Ralph - there's a scene at the end where Shia and Megan are talking about 'aren't you glad you got in the car' or something like that. And some of Megans lines have this weird 'MP3 sound quality to them' did you notice that? I think Jon Voight's endind monologue does the same thing.

SR, I didn't notice that but will go back and double check.

Owning a home format that can reproduce this in a superior fashion to most commercial movie theatres is a real boon.....long live Blu-Ray!!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Stuart and I couldn't agree more..:)


Cheers,

A very useful review, thanks. I recorded the movie from HBO over the weekend but have not yet watched it. Now, thanks to Ralph's review, I am looking forward to seeing it. Unfortunately, HBO crops all 2.35:1 films to 16:9 but I'll live with that as this seems to be an entertaining film that looks good, too.

Thanks Ralph,

great review if I didn't already own the HD-DVD (Christmas gift from my Grandmother) I would buy the Blu-ray version but I can't see getting it just for the different bass levels you described.

though I have an HD-DVD player (360 add-on is why) I have to admit I am so happy I got PS3, between HD and BR I can tell a difference and like stuart said "long live blu-ray"

I had problems with the BD-LIVE features as well. Funny that highdefdigest didn't. Makes me seriously question their validity.

Ralph... thanks for the review...

It look forward to checking this disc out... One thing I'll be curious about is the appearent increase in LFE.... the .1 channel is the one that should be equal between lossy and lossless codecs regardless of the bitrate of the lossy encode... it is the one part of the track that takes almost no spece, is very easy to encode due to it's limited frequency response, and is not "lumped" in with the other channels in the encoder for percuptual analysis...

Can't wait to hear it... thanks again. :)

Ralph... thanks for the review...

It look forward to checking this disc out... One thing I'll be curious about is the appearent increase in LFE.... the .1 channel is the one that should be equal between lossy and lossless codecs regardless of the bitrate of the lossy encode... it is the one part of the track that takes almost no spece, is very easy to encode due to it's limited frequency response, and is not "lumped" in with the other channels in the encoder for percuptual analysis...

Can't wait to hear it... thanks again. :)

Greetings,

Thanks FM. I respect your opinion and look forward to your impressions.:cool:

Regards,

I will probably get the BD in addition to the HD-DVD which I already have.
Werent there some who predicted that the increased capacity & bitrate on BD would blow the HD-DVD away, especially the PQ. Didnt Bay say something to this effect also???? As many said "time will/did tell". I guess the blow was just a mild breeze instead of a typhoon as predicted!

its the same video encode is it not, so i guess we wont know.

been waiting for this, great review, thank you!

It's not the same video encode...the peaks are too high for HD DVD.

Ralph,

I did some double checking on the volume and it's closer to 4-6dB difference...the strange thing is that it fluctuates throughout the movie, depending on the scene. I'm wondering if the same audio master was used for DD+ and TrueHD or if one audio master was used for the HD DVD and another for the BD and that's the difference in sound that we are hearing. Both of these discs were prepared in July of last year for the October release (or so I've been told by a reliable source).

its the same video encode is it not, so i guess we wont know.

This encode is optimized for BD bitrates, supposedly supervised by Bay himself, so I guess we do know...;)

I guess the blow was just a mild breeze instead of a typhoon as predicted!

I think that "mild breeze" is just the air escaping from between Mr. Bay's ears as his head deflates...:D

As a follow-up, chapter 2 is a good point to test the sound levels. When the marines are in the chopper, I used their dialog as a reference point. On the BD, it peaked at +2 on my RS SPL meter, on the HD DVD, it peaked at -2. On chapter three, when Sam is speaking to the class, it peaked at +3 (actually..in between 2 and 4) on the BD, and on the HD DVD, it peaked at -3 (between 2 and 4...there is no "3" on the meter). When the bass kicks in, the BD is much stronger for sure, but the HD DVD isn't lacking in bass. I think it is pure volume level...Just my $.02.

As a follow-up, chapter 2 is a good point to test the sound levels. When the marines are in the chopper, I used their dialog as a reference point. On the BD, it peaked at +2 on my RS SPL meter, on the HD DVD, it peaked at -2. On chapter three, when Sam is speaking to the class, it peaked at +3 (actually..in between 2 and 4) on the BD, and on the HD DVD, it peaked at -3 (between 2 and 4...there is no "3" on the meter). When the bass kicks in, the BD is much stronger for sure, but the HD DVD isn't lacking in bass. I think it is pure volume level...Just my $.02.

Greetings,

Thanks for your input Dave..:) Talk to you later about this.

Cheers,

This encode is optimized for BD bitrates, supposedly supervised by Bay himself, so I guess we do know...;)


Ah thats cool. the Hidef digest review kinda says its the same encode hence my confussion.

finally can replace my HDDVD version which i already sold. love this popcorn movie.

Where you can you find a disc that has a VC-1 encode of Transformers?

The HD-DVD was MPEG4 as well.

Your right. I completely glossed over that in the review. :o
I don't know what made me naturally assume that the HD-DVD disc was VC-1.
I guess I shouldn't have been comparing (http://hd-discs.mbmg.de/) a bunch of VC-1 encoded HD-DVD images before posting.:)

Reece

I thought the HD DVD was VC-1. The Toshiba A35 (and other) firmware upgrade has a bug that shows up when doing 24fps on VC-1 titles, like Transformers. At least I think it's VC-1. Anyway, whatever Transformers is, it produces the bug with the newer firmware in 24fps, which is why a lot of people did not upgrade.

This disc seems to prove that there is a limit to what increasing bitrate can do to picture quality since no reviews I have seen indicate any noticiable differences in video quality despite the BR having a higher bitrate.

Toshiba bug shows up when playing back AVC encoded discs.

Thanks for the review, Ralph! I owned this movie on HD before HD DVD died and I sold all of my movies and equipment. I'll have to see if I can get a decent price on Transformers and pick it up soon.

Ralph... thanks for the review...

It look forward to checking this disc out... One thing I'll be curious about is the appearent increase in LFE.... the .1 channel is the one that should be equal between lossy and lossless codecs regardless of the bitrate of the lossy encode... it is the one part of the track that takes almost no spece, is very easy to encode due to it's limited frequency response, and is not "lumped" in with the other channels in the encoder for percuptual analysis...

Can't wait to hear it... thanks again. :)
FM,
I can't think of one lossless and lossy comparison that didn't suggest the LFE was deeper and tighter. Makes you wonder how this happens.Given your expertise on the subject, I will default to you. I have noticed using my Anthem AVM50 with ARC, that some scenes have less LFE and others have more, but overall the bass is tighter and smoother. I will be very interested to try this disc and compare with my HD DVD as well the U571 as well;)
John

I thought the HD DVD was VC-1. The Toshiba A35 (and other) firmware upgrade has a bug that shows up when doing 24fps on VC-1 titles, like Transformers. At least I think it's VC-1. Anyway, whatever Transformers is, it produces the bug with the newer firmware in 24fps, which is why a lot of people did not upgrade.

It's AVC at 24fps that causes the problem.

FM,
I can't think of one lossless and lossy comparison that didn't suggest the LFE was deeper and tighter. Makes you wonder how this happens.Given your expertise on the subject, I will default to you. I have noticed using my Anthem AVM50 with ARC, that some scenes have less LFE and others have more, but overall the bass is tighter and smoother. I will be very interested to try this disc and compare with my HD DVD as well the U571 as well;)
John

One of the things that needs to be taken into consideratin is that it is sometimes hard to distinguish LFE if you are using bass management, which most users are.... one of the things that lossy encoders do, and to a lesser extent as the bitrates increase, is share frequency information common to both channels, which could impact the "depth" on LFE.... I'll be curious to look at the HD DVD vs. BR on the measuring stick to see what the difference is...

This disc seems to prove that there is a limit to what increasing bitrate can do to picture quality since no reviews I have seen indicate any noticiable differences in video quality despite the BR having a higher bitrate.

i wonder if pq would still be indistinguishable tho had paramount decided to sacrifice video bitrate and include lossless audio on the hd dvd. it seems you have to reach a certain point in bitrate to get to where higher bitrate wont benefit the pq, but to get to that point lossless audio had to be omitted on the hd dvd. so far from the reviews that did comparisons there is a diff between the lossy and lossless tracks.

here's to hoping my brother's eD a2-300 will arrive before september 2nd.

To really bear out this "bitrate vs. pq" theory, I think we need to actually take a look/compare scenes where there actually is a bitrate "peak" in the encoding. That's when things are going to be stressed. Just noting the averages or looking at scenes where bitrate is "nominal" is certainly not where you would find differences, imo.

Naturally, no one is going to bother to go through the trouble (I'd expect)...but that is where the answer will live until the day it is discovered by someone who is looking in the right place for it.

...and for all it's worth, it may simply come down to something that isn't really tangible on our end, rather something that appears in the actual production of the encoding. Maybe the br encode was simply less trouble to execute, once it is allowed to take whatever bandwidth it needs for a given scene situation, whereas, the hdvd encode required a watchful eye to optimize the parameters scene-by-scene (which also opens the inevitable possibility that some scenes slip through w/o the necessary TLC treatment). Maybe the master that was approved for either encode, was already graded down to some degree as to make it easily fit into an hdvd profile, anyway Who really knows? Certainly, there are lots of possibilities.

Until then, there will simply be 2 groups of people- one group that needs to believe the copy they bought way back when it was in hdvd is the best one that will ever be, and the other group that is simply happy that the title can now be had on br and appears to exploit the format to its fullest in video and audio.

The only way to do a true "test" is to have a split screen or have the exact same equipment (except the players) showing the pictures side by side.

I would be willing to bet in double blind testing the results would be "inconclusive" for both the audio and the video :D

The only way to do a true "test" is to have a split screen or have the exact same equipment (except the players) showing the pictures side by side.

I would be willing to bet in double blind testing the results would be "inconclusive" for both the audio and the video :D

Or look at screen caps...like was done on The Mummy...which showed an increase in detail on the BD version on scenes where no DNR was applied.

Brandon

True, but screen caps versus live action are very different in the "real world." ;)

Greetings,

Excellent discussion indeed. I would prefer that the topic not stray too far as most of this has been or is being discussed in the Transformers thread in the Blu-ray Software forum.


Cheers,

I only have one question..... How does Megan look on Blu-Ray?

J

I only have one question..... How does Megan look on Blu-Ray?

J

Greetings,

Like a high definition "Fox"........;)


Regards,

Thankyou Ralph for the review.

Excellent review Ralph. Couldn't ask for more.:)

This disc seems to prove that there is a limit to what increasing bitrate can do to picture quality since no reviews I have seen indicate any noticiable differences in video quality despite the BR having a higher bitrate.

Most of the educated HDM owners understands that lower bit rates could also produce excellent results but the point in keeping the bits higher is to mitigate the unknown video artefacts of any proportions that might occur when sufficient bits aren't supplied. I don't feel there is anything wrong in giving high bit rate treatments because we can at least safely assume that any artefacts that occur beyond the boundaries of higher bit rates are related to the source material.:)

Excellent review, not sure if Im going to double dip and buy it on blu or not. IF the bass has improved then I can only imagine it being subtle. I thought it was pretty good on HD DVD.

Great review Ralph. Now, I am really forward for this one.. A while ago I had the HD DVD version but one of the things that I remember that it didn't cut it was simply the lfe.
I watched the movie last summer in one of the THX movie theaters in downtown San Francisco and remember how powerful the bass was... Hopefully this BD is the version that i was looking for...

Can't wait to receive it! Thanks Ralph!

Great review Ralph. Now, I am really forward for this one.. A while ago I had the HD DVD version but one of the things that I remember that it didn't cut it was simply the lfe.
I watched the movie last summer in one of the THX movie theaters in downtown San Francisco and remember how powerful the bass was... Hopefully this BD is the version that i was looking for...

Greetings,

Chris, don't expect a big increase in LFE output. What I think you will find is a better blend and noticeably deeper extension.

Regards,

A nice, honest review. Finally, a real comparison of the DD+ vs D-THD tracks.

Greetings,

Chris, don't expect a big increase in LFE output. What I think you will find is a better blend and noticeably deeper extension.

Regards,

Ralph,

I don't expect to hear an increase in the level of LFE. I am expecting to hear a cleaner and deeper bass.

Cheers,

Chris

Ralph,

I don't expect to hear an increase in the level of LFE. I am expecting to hear a cleaner and deeper bass.

Cheers,

Chris

Greetings,

Great, I just wanted to make sure..:)

Cheers,

The only way to do a true "test" is to have a split screen or have the exact same equipment (except the players) showing the pictures side by side.

I would be willing to bet in double blind testing the results would be "inconclusive" for both the audio and the video :D

a combo player will solve this :D sorry can't help this OT post since i'm a proud combo owner :cool:

thanks again for this great review, can't wait to pick up the BD version.

A nice, honest review. Unlike the utterly pathetic Blu-biased, in-your-face, review over at Blu-ray.com (why do I continue to visit that site anyways?).

Finally, a real comparison of the DD+ vs D-THD tracks.

+1
John

Greetings,

I would much prefer to stay on topic rather than comment extensively regarding opinions about a review/post from another site. I appreciate everyone's imput and cooperation.

Regards,

Great review! I'll probably stick with my HD-DVD copy since I don't have a sub(live in an apartment) and there doesn't appear to be any noticeable improvement in PQ on the BD.
Same here. I havd an HD DVD copy of the movie. There is no reason to go to the Blu-ray version. If I was big on audio and had a good HDMI receiver then maybe I would consider it, but I only have a Yahama receiver that can accept optical.

Thanx for taking the time to discern the difference between the HD DVD and Blu copies.

well i am halfway thru the movie on bluray, and i'm blown away for how great it looks...

But what really really impressed me was the sound, holy crap that was good...

But sadly in dark parts of the movie which were quite a few.. it's very grainy..

I have switched settings in my ps3, stuff like RGB from limited to full and i didn't see much difference.. i'm quite disappointed about it... i had downloaded the hd version and it didn't look that bad (in the dark parts).

It looks almost like 300, i think the problem is that since there was a lot of digital work on this film like in 300 i guess there was a lot of grain because of it.

Just so people know, i have a 52" Samsung, 1080P and i have a 1.3HDMI cable and it really sucks for it to be so grainy, i have calibrated my tv with the bluray DVE (Digital Video Essentials) my contrast and brightness are quite good on every thing else, and i'm actually pretty pissed about the grainy parts but the bright parts are jaw dropping...

Anyhow, i just wanted to warn to the new owners of bluray to not think that there is something wrong with your settings, just try to not pay too much attention to the grainy parts. :(

Elo,

Grain is supposed to be there...it is part of film. Also, low-light situations accentuate grain.

Ralph,

You got the audio portion of this review spot on. The main difference between the HD DVD and BD I noticed after volume matching is the bass response on the BD. It's light years ahead of the HD DVD....there's definitely more depth in the bass response, like deeper frequencies are being heard. The HD DVD version, although very strong, was lacking this bass response.

Ralph,

You got the audio portion of this review spot on. The main difference between the HD DVD and BD I noticed after volume matching is the bass response on the BD. It's light years ahead of the HD DVD....there's definitely more depth in the bass response, like deeper frequencies are being heard. The HD DVD version, although very strong, was lacking this bass response.

Greetings,

Thanks for sharing your impressions Dr_Kn0w... :)


Cheers,

Ralph - there's a scene at the end where Shia and Megan are talking about 'aren't you glad you got in the car' or something like that. And some of Megans lines have this weird 'MP3 sound quality to them' did you notice that? I think Jon Voight's endind monologue does the same thing.


I experienced this as well. I thought it was my system. I will go back again tonight and listen. Anyone else hear this? Ralph, have you gotten an opportunity to give it a second listen? I found it to be rather pronounced.

**Update, I checked this at lunch, it is at these two scenes very pronounced, almost like a crackle.

Hey Ralph,

As you may have noticed, this mix has a lower volume than most other Blu-ray discs. I was wondering how much did you have to turn up your volume to reach you typical reference volume (in db's)?

For me, my typical volume for most movies is -20db but for Transformers I had to turn it up to -14db. I was wondering if you had to turn it up that drastically.

Hey Ralph,

As you may have noticed, this mix has a lower volume than most other Blu-ray discs. I was wondering how much did you have to turn up your volume to reach you typical reference volume (in db's)?

For me, my typical volume for most movies is -20db but for Transformers I had to turn it up to -14db. I was wondering if you had to turn it up that drastically.

Greetings,

I don't recall this being that much of an issue. When I get a chance I will double check.


Regards,

Hey Ralph,

As you may have noticed, this mix has a lower volume than most other Blu-ray discs. I was wondering how much did you have to turn up your volume to reach you typical reference volume (in db's)?

For me, my typical volume for most movies is -20db but for Transformers I had to turn it up to -14db. I was wondering if you had to turn it up that drastically.

Greetings,

Dr_Kn0w, I checked this out this morning and found no such issue in my setup. I watched it at the same reference point that I do for all of my viewing and it didn't sound any lower in volume than any other disc of its type.

Originally Posted by shadowrage

Ralph - there's a scene at the end where Shia and Megan are talking about 'aren't you glad you got in the car' or something like that. And some of Megans lines have this weird 'MP3 sound quality to them' did you notice that? I think Jon Voight's endind monologue does the same thing.

I experienced this as well. I thought it was my system. I will go back again tonight and listen. Anyone else hear this? Ralph, have you gotten an opportunity to give it a second listen? I found it to be rather pronounced.

**Update, I checked this at lunch, it is at these two scenes very pronounced, almost like a crackle.

Factor V and shadowrage,

I listened to both of these segments and they sounded fine. I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary and the dialogue sounded clear. :confused:


Cheers,

Ralph,

Nice Review. I agree in terms of both PQ and AQ... For me it was difficult to see any difference between the BD and HD DVD version because I am using now the Pioneer 51FD and part of the improvement in terms of PQ might be coming actually from the player... In terms of the sound, the bass is now very clean and integrates perfectly with the rest of the mix.. I also agree with one of the members here, the volume is slightly lower than in any other BD but not by that much...

Cheers,

EDIT: I just got an email from Josh and I misinterpreted his post over at HDD. Sorry for the confusion.

Greetings,

Dr_Kn0w, I checked this out this morning and found no such issue in my setup. I watched it at the same reference point that I do for all of my viewing and it didn't sound any lower in volume than any other disc of its type.





Factor V and shadowrage,

I listened to both of these segments and they sounded fine. I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary and the dialogue sounded clear. :confused:


Cheers,

Thanks for checking.

Back to the lab for me then.

Greetings,

Dr_Kn0w, I checked this out this morning and found no such issue in my setup. I watched it at the same reference point that I do for all of my viewing and it didn't sound any lower in volume than any other disc of its type.

Hi Ralph,

Wow, I think you're the first person to tell me they haven't had to turn the volume up at all while watching this movie. There's a huge thread in the Blu-ray software forum with many users having the same "issue" with the volume to varying degrees....

Hi Ralph,

Wow, I think you're the first person to tell me they haven't had to turn the volume up at all while watching this movie. There's a huge thread in the Blu-ray software forum with many users having the same "issue" with the volume to varying degrees....

Are you decoding internally in the player or outputting at Bitstream? There are a number of discs that have low volume with decoding in the player and this may be one of those discs.

Hi Ralph,

Wow, I think you're the first person to tell me they haven't had to turn the volume up at all while watching this movie. There's a huge thread in the Blu-ray software forum with many users having the same "issue" with the volume to varying degrees....

Greetings,

I read through it. I didn't see that many were having it but all I can report is what I am seeing here.

Cheers,

Are you decoding internally in the player or outputting at Bitstream? There are a number of discs that have low volume with decoding in the player and this may be one of those discs.

This could most likely be it.....I'm decoding within the player (PS3). I guess if I had a bitstreaming player and receiver I wouldn't notice this difference.

Elo,

Grain is supposed to be there...it is part of film. Also, low-light situations accentuate grain.

So your saying its suppose to look like **** in those spots?
I'm not saying it looks bad it just has a lot of dark scenes with a lot of grain. I would think it would look a little better in those scenes. Overall it LOOKS GREAT and sound even better!!

They can get rid of the grain, but it has trade offs that will harm the picture in other places.

I think I agree with the recent consensus about low volume on transformers blu-ray. I had to constantly turn up the volume to hear the effects during fights but as far as dialogue is concern its ok and still pretty clear but really I'm really frustrated about the fight scenes. It seems like the sound is far away and that the bass was not there. What's going on?

I have an Onkyo 805
Fronts are Full Band
Center at 150
Surround 70
Surround Rear 60
Sub is 80, the actual sub knob is at 80 should I turn it up to 120 and calibrate?

I think I agree with the recent consensus about low volume on transformers blu-ray. I had to constantly turn up the volume to hear the effects during fights but as far as dialogue is concern its ok and still pretty clear but really I'm really frustrated about the fight scenes. It seems like the sound is far away and that the bass was not there. What's going on?

I have an Onkyo 805
Fronts are Full Band
Center at 150
Surround 70
Surround Rear 60
Sub is 80, the actual sub knob is at 80 should I turn it up to 120 and calibrate?

Three things...

1. Check and make sure night mode is off on your Onkyo.

2. Cross over you fronts... many around here think that even though their fronts are rated to go down into the 30's and 20's, they shouldn't use the sub for the heavy lifting.... there are very few around here that truly have speakers that are useable into the teens without strain, or have the rooms that are properly set up to handle low end like that from speakers at any kind of distance...

What kind of speakers and sub are you using?

3. Most importantly, in regards to your sub crossover, you should turn off/set to the highest value the crossover on the sub....if you have your center set to 150 right now, and the sub isn't getting anything above 80, you are missing a lot of information, which could also explain your anemic concerns.. your aren't hearing anything between 80-150, which for guns, hits, blasts, etc, is where a lot of information ends up in order to gain size in the sound... your center may need a cross over that size if it is small with out good low end support, but I suggest you set all of your speakers to 80Hz, and let your sub handle the rest.... see what it sounds like, but I think you'll be happy. :)

I think I agree with the recent consensus about low volume on transformers blu-ray. I had to constantly turn up the volume to hear the effects during fights but as far as dialogue is concern its ok and still pretty clear but really I'm really frustrated about the fight scenes. It seems like the sound is far away and that the bass was not there. What's going on?

I have an Onkyo 805
Fronts are Full Band
Center at 150
Surround 70
Surround Rear 60
Sub is 80, the actual sub knob is at 80 should I turn it up to 120 and calibrate?

Interesting will be trying my copy tonight.

Hi FilmMixer,

Thanks for the input.

-Now, I don't think that my 805 had the night mode on but I will check again later.

-I'll have to learn more about cross-overs because like you said I might be losing a lot of information which can be really frustrating. I am using bose 301 for fronts, vcs-10 for center, 201 for rears and a klipsch ksw-12 for my sub. Ok, so your saying that I should turn the frequency knob to 120 in my sub? Right now its at 80 and audyssey has for for 80 as well. You are spot on about the not hearing the guns, blasts and etc...I feel like I missing something especially when I watched Rambo and now Transformers made it obvious. I will have a manual configuration for it and set it at 80 but I will wait for your response just to make sure.

Thanks:)

Franin,

Let me know what you think. The first check should be when blackout landed on base and started attacking. It sounded like it was far away and there was no bass and dialogue distinction.

Hi FilmMixer,

Thanks for the input.

-Now, I don't think that my 805 had the night mode on but I will check again later.

-I'll have to learn more about cross-overs because like you said I might be losing a lot of information which can be really frustrating. I am using bose 301 for fronts, vcs-10 for center, 201 for rears and a klipsch ksw-12 for my sub. Ok, so your saying that I should turn the frequency knob to 120 in my sub? Right now its at 80 and audyssey has for for 80 as well. You are spot on about the not hearing the guns, blasts and etc...I feel like I missing something especially when I watched Rambo and now Transformers made it obvious. I will have a manual configuration for it and set it at 80 but I will wait for your response just to make sure.

Thanks:)

Set your sub as high as it will go... You can go into the setup on the 805 and change the L R's to small... I am surprised it set them to large..

Change all of the crossovers to 80, and see what you think... you might need to go higher on the crossover, but that should be a good starting point.

Set your sub as high as it will go... You can go into the setup on the 805 and change the L R's to small... I am surprised it set them to large..

Change all of the crossovers to 80, and see what you think... you might need to go higher on the crossover, but that should be a good starting point.
I agree that all speakers should be set to small and the LFE crossover set to 80 HZ. That's the THX standard, by the way. By using those settings your main speakers and surrounds won't have to strain for low frequencies, which your sub should be able to handle with aplomb. I haven't received the BD version of Transformers from BB yet so I can't comment about its soundtrack.

Hi FilmMixer,

I just set everything to 80Hz and I'm liking the results already. Also, I have leveled the db settings for the speakers meaning they're all at 0db as far as speakers and sub are concern. Now for the sub which I haven't done yet, do you want me to turn the knob to 120Hz its at 80Hz right now. Will the internal settings override it though? Thanks.:)

Filmmixer, is there a chance a lot of the LFE was mixed into the fronts, instead of the .1? Would explain why some are missing it.

Hi FilmMixer,

I just set everything to 80Hz and I'm liking the results already. Also, I have leveled the db settings for the speakers meaning they're all at 0db as far as speakers and sub are concern. Now for the sub which I haven't done yet, do you want me to turn the knob to 120Hz its at 80Hz right now. Will the internal settings override it though? Thanks.:)

By not having your subwoofer's dial turned up to 120Hz, you are putting the bass through two filters, one in the receiver and the other in the subwoofer itself. Setting the subwoofer's dial to 120Hz ensures that the subwoofer is receiving all the possible information that your Onkyo feeds it without doubling down on the signal.

Also, Chris from Audyssey explained a little while back that the Low Pass Filter (LPF) setting in the Onkyo 805 should also be set to 120Hz. It does not affect the independent crossover frequencies of your five other speakers, but it can filter out information above 80Hz that is present in the actual LFE (.1) channel. Thus, LFE signals from 81Hz-120Hz may be completely thrown out:

The LFE should always be at 120 Hz otherwise you are losing content from the LFE track on DVDs and HD content that is authored with content up to 120 Hz. Setting your crossovers at 80 Hz is a good start.

Link to the Quote Below: (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12830173#post12830173)

If you can't defeat the lowpass in the sub, then you should set it to the highest setting as you correctly did.

The lowpass filter in the bass management system is for the separate LFE channel and is completely different from the crossover between the main speakers and the subwoofer. When you (or MultEQ) selects a crossover frequency for each speaker, a high pass filter at that frequency is applied to the signal and what passes through is sent to satellite speaker. At the same time, a low pass filter at that same frequency is applied to the signal and what passes through is sent to the subwoofer. In addition to the low frequencies from each channel there is a separate discrete LFE signal on the DVD that is also sent to the subwoofer. The lowpass filter you see in the menu is only applied to this separate signal.

Technically, this lowpass is not needed because the people who make the content should be following the spec and lowpassing the LFE content before it goes on the DVD. However, manufacturers are concerned about those not following that spec and put in their own lowpass filter for the LFE signal to prevent it from leaking into the main channels.

You should leave it at 120 Hz. Also, note that any internal settings of crossovers, levels, delays, etc. are ignored when MultEQ calibration is running so changing them before you run MultEQ has no effect.

Regards,
Chris
__________________
Chris

Filmmixer, is there a chance a lot of the LFE was mixed into the fronts, instead of the .1? Would explain why some are missing it.

It's not really that they mixed any "LFE" into the mains, just that there is a lot of low end information in the mains... the .1 is a discrete channel which takes effort (i.e. you have to bus to it directly, and usually end up synthesizing a lot of what you do send there..)..

With the mains, unless you get rid of something you don't want there, whatever is sent to that channel is what ya here...

Make sense?

Greetings,

I think that this is great discussion and I am glad that some are able to resolve some of the technical issues they may have been having (thanks FilmMixer ;) ). However this is discussion that has spilled over from the thread in the Blu-ray software forum and I would prefer that this thread be held more to discussion of the Transformers Review and topics related to impressions of the quality of the disc. I do realize that in this case there are extenuating circumstances for some users. I will leave this discussion in this thread but would appreciate any further technical related questions etc. be asked in the thread in the Blu-ray Software forum.

Thanks ! :)

Greetings,

I think that this is great discussion and I am glad that some are able to resolve some of the technical issues they may have been having (thanks FilmMixer ;) ). However this is discussion that has spilled over from the thread in the Blu-ray software forum and I would prefer that this thread be held more to discussion of the Transformers Review and topics related to impressions of the quality of the disc. I do realize that in this case there are extenuating circumstances for some users. I will leave this discussion in this thread but would appreciate any further technical related questions etc. be asked in the thread in the Blu-ray Software forum.

Thanks ! :)


Party pooper :p:p:p:p:p:p:eek:

Guys, thanks for the replies. I will take your valuable input into consideration. Now onto actual transformers review?:)

Does that apply for the Onkyo 705 as well? So although I have my speakers set to 80Hz, I should set the LFE to the 120Hz? And this wont affect the settings I have for my main speakers? I better check that out.

Greetings,

I think that this is great discussion and I am glad that some are able to resolve some of the technical issues they may have been having (thanks FilmMixer ;) ). However this is discussion that has spilled over from the thread in the Blu-ray software forum and I would prefer that this thread be held more to discussion of the Transformers Review and topics related to impressions of the quality of the disc. I do realize that in this case there are extenuating circumstances for some users. I will leave this discussion in this thread but would appreciate any further technical related questions etc. be asked in the thread in the Blu-ray Software forum.

Thanks ! :)

Oops! Sorry. :o

Anyhoo... I just watched my BD copy and the video is identical. I'm watching this on a 52" screen and there's a whole lot of grain on both the BD and HD DVD (which is exactly how the film looked the five times I saw it in theaters). So I'm happy this is a case of "if it aint broke don't fix it".

The audio, on the other hand has improved. But it's not a night and day change. Although the TrueHD track is superior (the bass is fuller and the sound somewhat less bright overall), I'd still call the DD+ reference quality.

The only reasons to get this release is if you don't have the HD DVD or you want a slight improvement in terms of audio. I definitely fit into the latter but YMMV.

I like the fact that you get a $10 rebate if you already owned the DVD version, so the Blu-Ray version only cost me $15!

Some of the bright scenes are amazing for picture quality, especially the chapter where Scorpion is chasing the guys in the desert. Also, my volume level is fine on my disc, but I'm bitstreming DD 5.1 from my PS3 via optical. There sure is some nice bass effects in this movie.

Dan

The transfer is very good and the sound effects can really show off a good audio system.

Unfortunately, this lasts all of about 15 minutes until you realize how bad the story is (kind of like viewing porn).

The transfer is very good and the sound effects can really show off a good audio system.

Unfortunately, this lasts all of about 15 minutes until you realize how bad the story is (kind of like viewing porn).
I rather enjoyed the movie, although, I concede, it was a guilty pleasure that left me feeling a little ashamed of myself for having liked it. :)

Yes, I thgouth transformers was kinda grainy when I watched it on my buddies bluray player

I finally got to see the BD version of Transformers and loved it. I agree with Ralph’s assessment that its audio and video are both reference quality. I made the mistake of watching this movie on HBO HD before I got the BD and it was a mistake. As usual, HBO shamefully cropped the film's 2.40:1 OAR to 16:9 and it was so bitrate starved, either by HBO or Cox OKC, there was BAD artifacting in the action sequences. The BD has neither of those flaws and its TrueHD soundtrack was great. I recently got a new subwoofer, a Hsu VTF-3 MK3 Turbo, and it made my viewing chair shake with every crash and explosion.

I thought that the story was all right, too. It’s lightweight nonsense, of course, but it has a lot of sly humor, made the most of by a terrific ensemble cast. Shia LeBouf wears well and is funny, and you can’t beat the supremely talented Jon Voight and John Turturro. I also enjoyed Megan Fox and Rachael Taylor, neither of whom is an overwhelmingly strong actress, but boy they are gorgeous!

I am generally underwhelmed by the extras on movie disks but Disk 2 of the Transformers BD was an exception. It contains more than two hours of commentaries by the cast and crew and an inside look at how the movie was made. It was fascinating.

I think those who approach this movie as a good natured adventure without a serious bone in its body but also looks and sounds great won’t be disappointed.

I finally got to see the BD version of Transformers and loved it. I agree with Ralph’s assessment that its audio and video are both reference quality. I made the mistake of watching this movie on HBO HD before I got the BD and it was a mistake. As usual, HBO shamefully cropped the film's 2.40:1 OAR to 16:9 and it was so bitrate starved, either by HBO or Cox OKC, there was BAD artifacting in the action sequences. The BD has neither of those flaws and its TrueHD soundtrack was great. I recently got a new subwoofer, a Hsu VTF-3 MK3 Turbo, and it made my viewing chair shake with every crash and explosion.

I thought that the story was all right, too. It’s lightweight nonsense, of course, but it has a lot of sly humor, made the most of by a terrific ensemble cast. Shia LeBouf wears well and is funny, and you can’t beat the supremely talented Jon Voight and John Turturro. I also enjoyed Megan Fox and Rachael Taylor, neither of whom is an overwhelmingly strong actress, but boy they are gorgeous!

I am generally underwhelmed by the extras on movie disks but Disk 2 of the Transformers BD was an exception. It contains more than two hours of commentaries by the cast and crew and an inside look at how the movie was made. It was fascinating.

I think those who approach this movie as a good natured adventure without a serious bone in its body but also looks and sounds great won’t be disappointed.

Greetings,

Thanks very much for sharing your impressions gwsat.. :)


Cheers,

I experienced this as well. I thought it was my system. I will go back again tonight and listen. Anyone else hear this? Ralph, have you gotten an opportunity to give it a second listen? I found it to be rather pronounced.

**Update, I checked this at lunch, it is at these two scenes very pronounced, almost like a crackle.

I have heard the sound / crackle that you are speaking of. The two scenes, "aren't you glad you got in the car" and when John Voigt is talking about dismantleing "sector seven... the Laurentian abyss" etc. have a static noise to them.

I am using Klipsch RF-83 fronts and a Klipsch RC-64 center, processed by an Onkyo 805, and amplified by Emotiva XPA-2 amps. The speakers are highly effiicient and the crackle is very noticeable at levels well below reference. It may be just my disc, but it is not my system.

I tried Transformers BD on my other system, Marantz / JBL and noticed the same scenes have some static. It is not as noticable at the same level, but the JBLs are about 7-8 db less sensitive than the Klipsch speakers.

Other than those two scenes I thought the audio on Transformers was just spectacular. Just my .02.

I have heard the sound / crackle that you are speaking of. The two scenes, "aren't you glad you got in the car" and when John Voigt is talking about dismantleing "sector seven... the Laurentian abyss" etc. have a static noise to them.

I am using Klipsch RF-83 fronts and a Klipsch RC-64 center, processed by an Onkyo 805, and amplified by Emotiva XPA-2 amps. The speakers are highly effiicient and the crackle is very noticeable at levels well below reference. It may be just my disc, but it is not my system.


This is the result of radio mics used during production breaking up.. some directors will live with the imperfection in saving the performance of the actors.

Are you decoding internally in the player or outputting at Bitstream? There are a number of discs that have low volume with decoding in the player and this may be one of those discs.

Hi Ralph,

I hate to resurrect this topic but it's something that's really troubling me. I've verified over and over again the volume difference between Transformers THD track vs other movies and I really do need to up the volume about 6 or 7 DBs to level match.

As Dave pointed out, I am having my PS3 decode the soundtrack which is probably where the issue lies. I have checked and then checked again to make sure DRC is off on the PS3 and my receiver (Yammy RX-V661).

Can you please try this movie on your PS3 and let me know if you had to up the volume to your reference level vs when you watch it on your other BD player bitstreaming to your receiver. I want to see if you have the same problem as I do (if it's even an "issue" or "problem").

But the thing is, even when I up the volume, I don't find the track as dynamic as it could be. It really does sound like the sound track is being DRC'ed when I've verified my equipment does not have any DRC on (I've even checked while the movie is playing)

Hi Ralph,

I hate to resurrect this topic but it's something that's really troubling me. I've verified over and over again the volume difference between Transformers THD track vs other movies and I really do need to up the volume about 6 or 7 DBs to level match.

As Dave pointed out, I am having my PS3 decode the soundtrack which is probably where the issue lies. I have checked and then checked again to make sure DRC is off on the PS3 and my receiver (Yammy RX-V661).

Can you please try this movie on your PS3 and let me know if you had to up the volume to your reference level vs when you watch it on your other BD player bitstreaming to your receiver. I want to see if you have the same problem as I do (if it's even an "issue" or "problem").

But the thing is, even when I up the volume, I don't find the track as dynamic as it could be. It really does sound like the sound track is being DRC'ed when I've verified my equipment does not have any DRC on (I've even checked while the movie is playing)

Greetings,

No problem. I will check this and report back..


Regards,

Greetings,

No problem. I will check this and report back..


Regards,

Thanks Ralph,

Please post your findings...

Thanks Ralph,

Please post your findings...

Greetings,

I checked on this. I did have to increase volume to roughly + 4db over what I listen to most BD content at although there are plenty of soundtracks that are like this. This was the case with both the PS3 and my reference player. I had no issue what so ever with limited dynamic range using the PS3 or my reference player.


Cheers,

Greetings,

I checked on this. I did have to increase volume to roughly + 4db over what I listen to most BD content at although there are plenty of soundtracks that are like this. This was the case with both the PS3 and my reference player. I had no issue what so ever with limited dynamic range using the PS3 or my reference player.


Cheers,

Awesome, thanks Ralph. I know it's comparing apples and oranges, but I had just finished watching Resident Evil Extinction and that was a very aggressive mix. Then I decided to throw on Transformers right after and I found I had increase the volume quite a bit...but also found the mix less dynamic when coming from RE:E. Oh well, c'est la vie ;)

I like the fact that you get a $10 rebate if you already owned the DVD version, so the Blu-Ray version only cost me $15!

Can you explain this to me a little bit more? I didn't quite understand how this works.

Can you explain this to me a little bit more? I didn't quite understand how this works.

There's a mail-in rebate that comes in the packaging of the Transformers BD. If you already own the Transformers DVD and you bought the Transformers BD, you can get $10 back from Paramount.

You need to fill out the mail in rebate and also cut off the proof of purchase from your DVD copy's sleeve and BD's sleeve and mail all of that information in to Paramount.

If the BD costs you $25 - $10(rebate) the BD ends up costing you $15.

There's a mail-in rebate that comes in the packaging of the Transformers BD. If you already own the Transformers DVD and you bought the Transformers BD, you can get $10 back from Paramount.

You need to fill out the mail in rebate and also cut off the proof of purchase from your DVD copy's sleeve and BD's sleeve and mail all of that information in to Paramount.

If the BD costs you $25 - $10(rebate) the BD ends up costing you $15.

So this isn't store-specific, but Paramount-specific, eh?

And uh I actually need to cut it OUT? That's... that's just great. You don't need any of the old receipts, right? That thing is long gone.

Thanks, man. Any idea when this rebate would be due by?

I loved this movie but I think the sequal is going to suck

Where are you all buying this BD at? I went to several main chain electronic stores this weekend and nobody had it. One store "BB" claimed it wasn't out yet on Blue Ray! Correction: I just noticed on "CCity's" website you can order it online only.

Jasonsmith,

Its hard to tell if its gonna suck but I did have the opportunity of watching them film some scenes. They did about 3 weeks of filming here in Philadelphia back in June. The thing that sucked for me is that everytime they had the cars out in public, I wasn't around! I saw a lot of the other filming though.

But sadly in dark parts of the movie which were quite a few.. it's very grainy..

It looks almost like 300, i think the problem is that since there was a lot of digital work on this film like in 300 i guess there was a lot of grain because of it.

Just so people know, i have a 52" Samsung, 1080P and i have a 1.3HDMI cable and it really sucks for it to be so grainy, i have calibrated my tv with the bluray DVE (Digital Video Essentials) my contrast and brightness are quite good on every thing else, and i'm actually pretty pissed about the grainy parts but the bright parts are jaw dropping...
(

Its not just light vs dark parts. In the scene right after Sam and the girl fight off the little transformer and bumblebee throws the cop car into the power station its like night and day. When looking down the embankment at sam and the girl its extremely grainy. When looking up at bumblebee its perfectly clear. The scene cuts back and forth 3-4 times.

Then in the scene where you first see Optimus Prime transform out of big rig form its very dark and very grainy. So its not just the dark scenes or the CGI scenes. Luckily the Soccent base attack was high quality and pretty much everything at/after hoover.

I was very upset at Optimus' first scene being so bad.


Elo,

Grain is supposed to be there...it is part of film. Also, low-light situations accentuate grain.

Why am I buying high def discs that have nearly menopausal swings in picture quality? It looks DVD quality in the grainy sections and then will look spectacular in the higher def sections.

Where are you all buying this BD at? I went to several main chain electronic stores this weekend and nobody had it. One store "BB" claimed it wasn't out yet on Blue Ray! Correction: I just noticed on "CCity's" website you can order it online only.

Jasonsmith,

Its hard to tell if its gonna suck but I did have the opportunity of watching them film some scenes. They did about 3 weeks of filming here in Philadelphia back in June. The thing that sucked for me is that everytime they had the cars out in public, I wasn't around! I saw a lot of the other filming though.


Got mine at Target, but every where I have been has it, bb,cc, blockbuster video, walmart.

I loved this movie but I think the sequal is going to suck

i have to disagree. i think this one was a little too kiddie. i think transformers 2 has an oportunity to be an empire strikes back. a more serious sequal with the dark forces gaining ground and a feeling of impending doom.

Hey all, Great movie! Loved it & Megan Fox ;) My DVD doesn't have a barcode or anything that shows proof of purchase? I bought the BD version and have the rebate form but have no idea how I'm going to get my rebate? Maybe send the cover in? Any thoughts or people with a similar issue?

Hey all, Great movie! Loved it & Megan Fox ;) My DVD doesn't have a barcode or anything that shows proof of purchase? I bought the BD version and have the rebate form but have no idea how I'm going to get my rebate? Maybe send the cover in? Any thoughts or people with a similar issue?

On the slipcover, there are two little boxes that say "Proof of Purchase" with a dotted line around it....cut one of them out along with the same P of P from your DVD copy and send it in

Ya crazy thing is my cover is clear.. no boxes. see it on the BD version but my DVD has nothing. It's a canadian copy so not sure if thats why & I pre-ordered it from blockbuster so not sure whats up. I think I'll sent the cover in with a photocopy of the DVD and hope for the best. Cheers!

I guess I see no reason to get the BD version of this, based on the reviews I've read and already owning the HD DVD version.

Diminishing returns seems to be in effect, as proven by every review I've read saying there's no discernible difference in video. Past a certain point, more bits thrown at the encode make no difference other than a higher number on a bit meter, which seems to please a lot of people.

And I mean no offense whatsoever to the reviewers here (thanks for all the great work, and please keep it up! :cool:) but when phrases like "the bass seems to blend better" or "it seems cleaner" and "there's more extension, but don't expect more LFE" get thrown around, it does seem to point to placebo and the need to explain...somehow...that the lossless version does sound better than the lossy. (Just ask Bay, himself. ;))

I'd be willing to bet anything that if you played both of them in a blind listening test, no one would be able to tell the difference and identify which one was which, despite what I'm sure will be very loud protests to the contrary, here.

But the marketing that pushed lossless so hard is now biting those very same studios in the butt. Now people are reading the boxes, and the bulletpoint that's supposed to say "Uncompressed" or "TrueHD" or "DTS HD-MA" isn't there, and people are complaining, as though they'd even be able to hear the difference between a good DD+ 1.5 MB encode and the others. There are even threads dedicated to (complaining about) why lossless isn't on every title. I'm all for maximizing what the format can do, but double and triple-dipping for a bit-meter reading that doesn't produce something I can see or hear doesn't make sense to me.

Just my 2¢.

I guess I see no reason to get the BD version of this, based on the reviews I've read and already owning the HD DVD version.

Diminishing returns seems to be in effect, as proven by every review I've read saying there's no discernible difference in video. Past a certain point, more bits thrown at the encode make no difference other than a higher number on a bit meter, which seems to please a lot of people.

And I mean no offense whatsoever to the reviewers here (thanks for all the great work, and please keep it up! :cool:) but when phrases like "the bass seems to blend better" or "it seems cleaner" and "there's more extension, but don't expect more LFE" get thrown around, it does seem to point to placebo and the need to explain...somehow...that the lossless version does sound better than the lossy. (Just ask Bay, himself. ;))

I'd be willing to bet anything that if you played both of them in a blind listening test, no one would be able to tell the difference and identify which one was which, despite what I'm sure will be very loud protests to the contrary, here.

But the marketing that pushed lossless so hard is now biting those very same studios in the butt. Now people are reading the boxes, and the bulletpoint that's supposed to say "Uncompressed" or "TrueHD" or "DTS HD-MA" isn't there, and people are complaining, as though they'd even be able to hear the difference between a good DD+ 1.5 MB encode and the others. There are even threads dedicated to (complaining about) why lossless isn't on every title. I'm all for maximizing what the format can do, but double and triple-dipping for a bit-meter reading that doesn't produce something I can see or hear doesn't make sense to me.

Just my 2¢.
ILJG -- My perception matches yours. Although I never bought an HD DVD player, the consensus seems to be that the HD DVD format consistently produced PQ as good, and sometimes better than, BD. I am not prepared to say that those with state of the art HT sound systems, including HDMI capable receivers, are not really hearing better sound from the latest and greatest HDMI only Codecs encoded on some BDs. Nevertheless, 1.5 Mb DTS or DD+ sounds great to me, at least as good as I hear in most theaters, even on my mostly middle of the road system. I am convinced that I would not benefit much, if any, from the new Codecs without first significantly upgrading my system. I may do it sometime but certainly not right away.

I experienced this as well. I thought it was my system. I will go back again tonight and listen. Anyone else hear this? Ralph, have you gotten an opportunity to give it a second listen? I found it to be rather pronounced.

**Update, I checked this at lunch, it is at these two scenes very pronounced, almost like a crackle.

I've only seen the HD DVD version, but I also have the "crackle" when Megan Fox says "I'm really glad I got in the car with you." That and the disappointing bass of the HD DVD have made me want to buy the Blu-ray version. After reading this review, I think I'm going for it. Great job Ralph! I've always enjoyed your reviews both here and on htspot.

Stephen

I've only seen the HD DVD version, but I also have the "crackle" when Megan Fox says "I'm really glad I got in the car with you." That and the disappointing bass of the HD DVD have made me want to buy the Blu-ray version. After reading this review, I think I'm going for it. Great job Ralph! I've always enjoyed your reviews both here and on htspot.

Stephen

Greetings,

Thanks much Stephen! Good to see you and don't be a stranger..:)


Cheers,

I've only seen the HD DVD version, but I also have the "crackle" when Megan Fox says "I'm really glad I got in the car with you." That and the disappointing bass of the HD DVD have made me want to buy the Blu-ray version. After reading this review, I think I'm going for it. Great job Ralph! I've always enjoyed your reviews both here and on htspot.

Stephen

It still blows my mind hearing anyone say the bass was dissapointing on the HD-DVD. This is one of the best for LFE/bass tracks I have listened to. Sounds like the BR is a slight improvement (somehow), but the HD-DVD is allready house crushing in the LFE/bass department.

It still blows my mind hearing anyone say the bass was dissapointing on the HD-DVD. This is one of the best for LFE/bass tracks I have listened to. Sounds like the BR is a slight improvement (somehow), but the HD-DVD is allready house crushing in the LFE/bass department.

Absolutely! I do NOT believe it's anything inherent in the soundtrack other than needing to turn the volume control up by 4/5 db on your AVR. I run analog out on my HD-XA1 with the LFE calibrated at approx. 4 to 5 db hotter than the rest. The infrasonics in the soundtrack are amazing and this DD+ track is easily on par with lossless BR tracks I have.

Absolutely! I do NOT believe it's anything inherent in the soundtrack other than needing to turn the volume control up by 4/5 db on your AVR. I run analog out on my HD-XA1 with the LFE calibrated at approx. 4 to 5 db hotter than the rest. The infrasonics in the soundtrack are amazing and this DD+ track is easily on par with lossless BR tracks I have.

Agreed;) The DD+ track is still one of the absolute best tracks I have listened to lossless or not.

I've only seen the HD DVD version, but I also have the "crackle" when Megan Fox says "I'm really glad I got in the car with you."
I have the same crackle, and unfortunately that's what I hear during all of Street Kings. It's terrible.

I have the same crackle, and unfortunately that's what I hear during all of Street Kings. It's terrible.

Agreed. I just received the Blu-ray version of Transformers. I thought my HD DVD player had died because my picture kept dropping out every few minutes. Turned out to be a bad cable, but I had already ordered Transformers on Blu-ray. So I'll have to check it out and see if I get the stupid crackle on that scene. I'll also need to do a close comparison of bass :D

Good review.. Thanks for taking the time. It's a great movie on to have on blu-ray.

Good review.. Thanks for taking the time. It's a great movie on to have on blu-ray.

Greetings,

Thanks and I couldn't agree more... ;)


Cheers,

Good review.. Thanks for taking the time. It's a great movie on to have on blu-ray.
Blu-ray did more for Transformers than any other movie I have seen. I saw it the first time on HBO, who brutally cropped it from 2.35:1 to 1.78:1. That gave the action sequences a horribly claustrophobic feeling, which was made worse by bad artifacting. The BD was like a breath of fresh air. Not only was it OAR but the digital transfer was beautiful. Highly recommended.

Can someone tell me if Transformers on BD is encoded @ 96Khz (TrueHD)..? I'll have to check it out this weekend.. I just watched the HD DVD ver. and thought it sounded great.. :) DD+ WOW @ 96Khz

Steve

I found it... listed as: Dolby TrueHD (Lossless Compression) 20-Bit/48Khz

Can someone tell me if Transformers on BD is encoded @ 96Khz (TrueHD)..? I'll have to check it out this weekend.. I just watched the HD DVD ver. and thought it sounded great.. :) DD+ WOW @ 96Khz

Steve

I found it... listed as: Dolby TrueHD (Lossless Compression) 20-Bit/48Khz

The HD DVD wasn't at 96k either.

The HD DVD wasn't at 96k either.FilmMixer, Strange that's what my Denon is displaying LPCM @ 96Khz.... but thanks for your input....

Steve

FilmMixer, Strange that's what my Denon is displaying LPCM @ 96Khz.... but thanks for your input....

Steve

On my HD-A2 any disc I put in registers as 96kHz on my Onkyo 705. It's because the HD-A2 upsamples (I believe that's the correct term) the audio before sending it to the receiver. Both the DD+ track on the HD DVD and the TrueHD track on the BD are 48kHz.

I saw a slight error in my post. I should have typed "On my HD-A2 any HD DVD disc I put in registers as 96kHz on my Onkyo 705." That phenomenon doesn't seem to occur with any DVDs or CDs I play on my HD-A2.

i have to disagree. i think this one was a little too kiddie. i think transformers 2 has an oportunity to be an empire strikes back.

There are Destructicons in the second film!

i have to disagree. i think this one was a little too kiddie. i think transformers 2 has an oportunity to be an empire strikes back. a more serious sequal with the dark forces gaining ground and a feeling of impending doom.

I wouldn't go far as saying kiddie, more young adult really.I loved the first and hope the second will better it.

A Michael Bay & company masterpiece!
Top reference film for special effects, picture quality and superior sound design.

I have 6 versions of this film. Don't ask me why, I just want to make sure that if I lost or brake one, I got a replacement right away! Call me nuts or what, but that's just the way it is. Anyone as crazy as I am? Got to love it (Transformers).

Have you seen the preview to the new one? looks impressive.

Hi Franin,

No I didn't. Where did you see it. I want to see it too! Tell me. :)

Apple Movie trailers.:)

Apple Movie trailers? Only with apple computers?

Can you wath the trailer on your computer, running with Microsoft?
Sorry if the question seems stupid.
I am not too familiar with this new world.
Maybe you can give me some instructions?

Will greatly appreciate,

_________Bob

http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/transformersrevengeofthefallen/

Here you go mate. I don't have apple computer but as lonng as you have quicktime you cant go wrong. just click large and see how that goes.:)

Thanks a lot mate.

no problems:)

Hello,

Transformers rocks big time!

Fantastic Demo stuff for your high def TV and audio system.

I love to rewatch this blu-ray movie on a regular basis, it does have a very high replay value.
And the picture plus sound are exquisite.

What more can you ask from Michael Bay?
I can't wait to see the sequel...

Regards,

_____ Bob

Great review, I like the film myself & hopefully I can see it again soon http://www.********************/pics/6/7.gif

There are Destructicons in the second film!

I think you mean the Constructicons. ;) Also, the giant robot you see Prime taking on towards he tail end of the trailer is one of six of them which will later unite to form Devastator. :D

I am NOT a big fan of comic book movies but when it came on DirecTV last night I was surprised to find it very appealing. I did not catch it from the beginning and it was certainly not BD quality given the high compression needed to fit over DirecTV's pipe, but it was good enough to convince me to go out and buy the BD of it.

And beside, Megan Fox is HOT!


Brian

I am no means an audioholic but have an observation/question.

Once I got my HT setup one of the first movies I wanted to watch was Transformers. I was disappointed in the audio. I have watched other movies that sounded much better. For one there wasn't as much bass as I expected. Heck even the new Die Hard movie sounded better.

Is it just me or am I missing something?

Megan Fox made up for most of it though :D

I am NOT a big fan of comic book movies but when it came on DirecTV last night I was surprised to find it very appealing. I did not catch it from the beginning and it was certainly not BD quality given the high compression needed to fit over DirecTV's pipe, but it was good enough to convince me to go out and buy the BD of it.

And beside, Megan Fox is HOT!
I watched it on cable the first time and was put off by excessive artifacting. Then I rented the BD and Wow! The PQ of the 1080p BD is startling, nothing less than demonstration quality.

I am no means an audioholic but have an observation/question.

Once I got my HT setup one of the first movies I wanted to watch was Transformers. I was disappointed in the audio. I have watched other movies that sounded much better. For one there wasn't as much bass as I expected. Heck even the new Die Hard movie sounded better.

Is it just me or am I missing something?

Megan Fox made up for most of it though :D


Greetings,

No problem with bass in my experience...


Regards,

greetings,

no problem with bass in my experience...


Regards,

+1

I am no means an audioholic but have an observation/question.

Once I got my HT setup one of the first movies I wanted to watch was Transformers. I was disappointed in the audio. I have watched other movies that sounded much better. For one there wasn't as much bass as I expected. Heck even the new Die Hard movie sounded better.

Is it just me or am I missing something?

Megan Fox made up for most of it though :D


No problem with LFE here, and infact the entire 30 minute seg from the 1:42 mark of the film up through the 2:12 mark is not only one of the best LFE experiences in HT, but overall one of the absolute best sound experiences in HT IMHO. This 30 minutes of audio played at reference level is pure bliss and the ultimate "demo" material IMO.

Sounds like I need a better sub!

No problem with LFE here, and infact the entire 30 minute seg from the 1:42 mark of the film up through the 2:12 mark is not only one of the best LFE experiences in HT, but overall one of the absolute best sound experiences in HT IMHO. This 30 minutes of audio played at reference level is pure bliss and the ultimate "demo" material IMO.
I agree that the LFE was terrific. In fact, the whole soundtrack was outstanding.

In fact, the whole soundtrack was outstanding.


Agreed. I love this one:)

I think you mean the Constructicons. ;) Also, the giant robot you see Prime taking on towards he tail end of the trailer is one of six of them which will later unite to form Devastator. :D

didn't realize that was them in the trailer! Awesome! One of the man Transformers I had back in the 80s! :D

I think it is time for me to rewatch this again!

I honestly cannot remember if I watched it with my new Ultra yet...or if I watched it with my old PC16-46+. LOL

I'm going to go with 20hz mode for max impact...but 15hz is tempting too!

save it for the master list for movies w/ bass thread,bgilly! ;)

I'm having a hard tim justifying buying the BR whn I have the HD DVD version...maybe a rental at best.