Just curious what the buzz is on those, and if the improvement is intended to be large (like 7g to 8g kuro) or more subtle and small (like 8g to 9g kuro).

Man...the PZ800's and PZ850's haven't even been released. Spin you are definitely thinking outside the box. :D

Chris

Man...the PZ800's and PZ850's haven't even been released. Spin you are definitely thinking outside the box. :D

Chris

huh? did i just step in a timewarp? the 800's and 850's have been in stores for a bit.

huh? did i just step in a timewarp? the 800's and 850's have been in stores for a bit.

I was talking about the big boys (58/65). Sorry I should have been more specific:o

Chris

I was talking about the big boys (58/65). Sorry I should have been more specific:o

Chris

ah i see. But since these lines are for the most part from the spring, it doesnt seem to early for buzz and reports.

I mean i think there was news out about the upcoming Kuros before the big 60" had yet to come out.

You should start hearing about the PZ90/PZ95/PZ900/PZ950 around CES time frame.

Chris

Well after Chris's report that Panny is discontinuing the 42" PZ800 model already I'm guessing no top of the line 42" PZ900 for next year.

Mfgs must love us. When vista comes out, we start talking about windows 7. When leopard comes out, we start talking about snow leopard. Now all we worry about is how 10G kuros and 12G pannys will look and start wondering how much better it will be than the current model:D
I know I am one of the worst when it come to the next best thing!

Well after Chris's report that Panny is discontinuing the 42" PZ800 model already I'm guessing no top of the line 42" PZ900 for next year.

hmmm, i would say not to be so prsumptive, but i did that with the Pioneer 9g's and look what happened with those 42" models (or, lackethereof).

I will say though, there has been no real proof that the size is being discontinued, and even if it is, a limited run doesnt necesarily mean they wont just do it again the next time. after all, with the only 1080p 42" display on the market this year they had that going for them.

Man you guys are way to early but I will give you guys the skinny. All I know is that they will start making 1 inch PDPs next year. Also there will be an introduction of 5 lumens tech.

I say that the 12G panny black levels will be so dark, you will have to turn the TV off to tell where the screen ends and the bezel begins! :D

I say that the 12G panny black levels will be so dark, you will have to turn the TV off to tell where the screen ends and the bezel begins! :D

I don't think that will happen. Pioneer still own those patents for black level. If Panasonic decides to buy it from them, they will have to jack up their price on their PDPs. The blacks might improved next year but I doubt you will ever see Kuro's blacks on Panasonic.

I was just being funny.
Is pio out-sourcing their screens to panny next year? If so, what else is pio out-sourcing?

Man you guys are way to early but I will give you guys the skinny. All I know is that they will start making 1 inch PDPs next year. Also there will be an introduction of 5 lumens tech.

so would you say that is a 7g-8g jump or a 8g-9g kind of jump? just curious.

I don't think that will happen. Pioneer still own those patents for black level. If Panasonic decides to buy it from them, they will have to jack up their price on their PDPs. The blacks might improved next year but I doubt you will ever see Kuro's blacks on Panasonic.

i dunno, it seems like Panasonic has been able to adopt any major technologies a year after a comptitor like Pioneer does. I'm honestly a little surprised they didnt have something very similar to the 8G kuro tech in their 2008 panels (although many reviews say their blacks did get close, they were clearly not using whatever special technology, even to get almost there).

The blacks might improved next year but I doubt you will ever see Kuro's blacks on Panasonic.

This is absurd. It's safe to say that both Pioneer and Panasonic will have near-as-makes-no-difference absolute blacks next year.

This is absurd. It's safe to say that both Pioneer and Panasonic will have near-as-makes-no-difference absolute blacks next year.
Your post is absurd. Get your facts straight!

Hi,

If I am correct, do not most brand introduce new models around March/April time - two or three months after CES? If so, we can expect to wait around 7 or 8 months for the Panny G12 & Pioneer G10 models - a bit of a wait!

Bazzy!

Hi,

If I am correct, do not most brand introduce new models around March/April time - two or three months after CES? If so, we can expect to wait around 7 or 8 months for the Panny G12 & Pioneer G10 models - a bit of a wait!

Bazzy!

Yep that correct. I would enjoy today's technology and worry about tomorrow's later.

Chris

Well I still think No 42 Inch PZ900 but they will have 42 inch PZ90 & PZ95's.

Does everyone think that there will be no 720P PX90 models next year? or do you think they may just keep them even if it's only Costco / Wal-Mart models?

Hi,

If I am correct, do not most brand introduce new models around March/April time - two or three months after CES? If so, we can expect to wait around 7 or 8 months for the Panny G12 & Pioneer G10 models - a bit of a wait!

Bazzy!You can expect the low end Panasonic models around the March-April timeframe. However, their "premium" models will not be available until at least September.

Pioneer will not have any new models until the Sept-Oct timeframe.

Your post is absurd. Get your facts straight!

This is absurd. It's safe to say that both Pioneer and Panasonic will have near-as-makes-no-difference absolute blacks next year.

Are you kidding, I heard Pioneer will actually have negative blacks next year resulting in a "black hole" effect which could suck you right through the screen if your not careful. :)

Man you guys are way to early but I will give you guys the skinny. All I know is that they will start making 1 inch PDPs next year. Also there will be an introduction of 5 lumens tech.


Hi,

May I ask, what is 5 Lumens Tech and what benefit does it give?

Bazzy!

Hi,

May I ask, what is 5 Lumens Tech and what benefit does it give?

Bazzy!

Brighter panels. The technology will also allow current brightness levels at lower power consumption levels.

Brighter panels. The technology will also allow current brightness levels at lower power consumption levels.

Hi,

Ahh, Thank you dearly - I think Panasonic call it NEO-PDP? I remember seeing some videos about this from CES 2008? Well, hopefully it will prove to be a good thing - I hope that it won't be as long as September/October next year before Panny/Pioneer bring out their better models - that's a whole year away and I do not think even I can wait that long!

Bazzy!

I was just being funny.
Is pio out-sourcing their screens to panny next year? If so, what else is pio out-sourcing?

Pioneer will be buying panels from Panasonic next year. But the internal components and processing wil be all Pioneer. Panasonic is building another PDP plant that goes online next April because of this and the fact that we will see 1 inch PDP next year from them.

so would you say that is a 7g-8g jump or a 8g-9g kind of jump? just curious.



i dunno, it seems like Panasonic has been able to adopt any major technologies a year after a comptitor like Pioneer does. I'm honestly a little surprised they didnt have something very similar to the 8G kuro tech in their 2008 panels (although many reviews say their blacks did get close, they were clearly not using whatever special technology, even to get almost there).

I would say is it like the 8g-9g jump.

Panasonic are always be able to improve their black level, but there is a limit where they can't go overboard because of price. Especially when the economy isn't doing so well. I saw the current panasonics compare to last year's pioneer at best buy and for some reason the blacks are still deeper on the Pioneer. You probably see a slight difference in a dark room though.

because of this and the fact that we will see 1 inch PDP next year from them.The plant goes online in May. You won't see a full featured 1" thick plasma TV. However, a monitor might be an option ;)

Brighter panels. The [5 lumens] technology will also allow current brightness levels at lower power consumption levels.

My understanding is that higher lumens technology also eventually leads to lower costs (and presumably, lower prices) because from a system perspective a more efficient light engine eases up the requirements on the power supply and reduces the demands on other components, facilitating the use of other components that are less expensive.

Any word or how likely is a 54" plasma from Panasonic in Spring '09?

Hey, nobody expected a 46" plasma from them, right?;)

interesting though, for some reason i thought 5 lumens also had something to do with black levels, all things considered, Panasonic clearly already figured out some way to get plenty of brightness out of their tv's (keeping in mind most above what the 2008 Panasonics can do would probably be too bright anyway).

I also would like to think the jump will be from 8-9g but all things considered i would be surprised if Panasonic stayedb eyond more than 1 year behind of Pioneers major improvements, and didnt make the big black jump that i expected them to make this year (as you said, they wouldnt go overboard, but thats why i feel like their following years models should be able to then catch up).

Although as someone else mentioned it gets 'close' to the previous years Pioneers, even reviews do say the difference is slight, and only if they are indeed right next to each other, so i guess Panasonic did SOMETHING to betterthe blacks on their 2008 models.

You can expect the low end Panasonic models around the March-April timeframe. However, their "premium" models will not be available until at least September.

Pioneer will not have any new models until the Sept-Oct timeframe.That doesn't really coincide with the "18 month product cycle". Will we have different 10Gs (like the low-end pannys) and have the good ones come out later.

That doesn't really coincide with the "18 month product cycle". Will we have different 10Gs (like the low-end pannys) and have the good ones come out later.
Pioneer's normal product cycle ends in April and starts in May. Add roughly 6 months to the end of April.

The plant goes online in May. You won't see a full featured 1" thick plasma TV. However, a monitor might be an option ;)

That would be flat out awesome!

I assume that will apply to the successor to the current Pioneer Signature series as well?

Also, is it known yet if Pioneer will be keeping the 60" size plasma, or will they be able to take advantage of Panasonic's larger glass fabrication? I think a 65" (or larger) Kuro would be a hot item.

This really has nothing to do with the panny's but I searched kuro at ces and came up with this picture. WOW I was worried about the 800U vs the 5020 and it seems like I will get the 800 and save the $1000 toward the Extreme Contrast coming out in who knows when. It will probably cost as much as a college education but if I start saving now.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3196/2784332616_0b62107176_o.jpg

you're very right, that doesnt have much to do with this topic, that pciture will only start a conversation about Pioneerss, black levels, and extreme contrast concepts, again, for Pioneer

Pioneer's normal product cycle ends in April and starts in May. Add roughly 6 months to the end of April.Ok thanks. That picture is overexposed at 6 sec. exposure time at a 1600 ISO!!! WAYYY Overdone

You should start hearing about the PZ90/PZ95/PZ900/PZ950 around CES time frame.

Chris

I might be the only one but I am more excited about the new pio & panny concepts from CES 2009 than the superbowl!

Do panny and pio show on display what new set will come out later in the year at CES or do they announce it later on?

that's what I thought, 5 Lumen Tech let 12 G Panasonic catch same brightness compare with LCD, plus half of thickness and reduce production cost.

I think it's huge improvement for 11G-12G compare to 10 G-11G :)

Brighter panels. The technology will also allow current brightness levels at lower power consumption levels.

Maybe I'm just paranoic but the 18-month cycle has me worried. If there is not 10G the world will end.

D-Nice: do you know if the 10Gs will be any brighter than the 9Gs? Also do you know if there is anyway that motion resolution can be improved?

And lastly what are the chances that Panasonic will not remain retarded and will get rid of 48 refresh flicker TV and join the 72 refresh smooth picture quality species?

that's what I thought, 5 Lumen Tech let 12 G Panasonic catch same brightness compare with LCD, plus half of thickness and reduce production cost.

I think it's huge improvement for 11G-12G compare to 10 G-11G :)

considering the big brightness boost the Panasonics already got, i'm unsure how this is so much more signifigant though.

Maybe I'm just paranoic but the 18-month cycle has me worried. If there is not 10G the world will end.

D-Nice: do you know if the 10Gs will be any brighter than the 9Gs? Also do you know if there is anyway that motion resolution can be improved?

And lastly what are the chances that Panasonic will not remain retarded and will get rid of 48 refresh flicker TV and join the 72 refresh smooth picture quality species?It is August 2008. By no means will I divulge details about a product that is still in development and is not scheduled to be released until the September-October 2009 timeframe.

Ask me these questions in 2009 :)

big brightness boost from 10G-11G? do you have numbers?

considering the big brightness boost the Panasonics already got, i'm unsure how this is so much more signifigant though.

big brightness boost from 10G-11G? do you have numbers?

no, i dont really need them though, that's like saying, "big black level boost from the Pioneer 7g to 8g, do you have numbers?". I mean, it's kind of obvious and well covered by pretty much any current or prospective owner of the set.

Your post is absurd. Get your facts straight!

D-Nice, I may be mistaken but I'm remembering a post where you said that next years Panasonic PDP's would reach Kuro black levels. Not sure if it was 8G or 9G. Is this accurate or was I dreaming?

D-Nice: here's a question about the here and now: do you think that Panasonic was retarded for going with 48 refresh FLICKER TV?

Does 72 refresh instead of 48 refresh add much money to the cost of a Plasma?

And since Pioneer is currently in some sort of buisness cooperation with Panasonic would employees of Pioneer be free to dis Panasonic?

here they are

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/08/26/panasonics-biggest-plasma-hdtvs-get-a-fall-makeover/#readercomments

here they are

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/08/26/panasonics-biggest-plasma-hdtvs-get-a-fall-makeover/#readercomments

Interesting they bumped the model to 900, but these appear to be just 8 series models with new features for Japan. The glass has the same contrast ratio as present displays, and I suspect Panasonic will bump it next year as it is known they will have new glass. I don't think the US will get these DVR models - in japan they use the DVB standard and I think they can get cable (and maybe even satelite) without an external box, so the DVR makes sense.

Its cool to see the big plunge on the 103" price though. Maybe by sometime late next decade displays like these will fall into the four figure range. And by then they'll be 1" thick so they won't weigh 450 lbs.

yeah they look good so hopefully the states get something similar kinda makes me think about returning my 85U but I am pretty happy with it.

here they are

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/08/26/panasonics-biggest-plasma-hdtvs-get-a-fall-makeover/#readercomments

my heart sank like a thud to see they were actually releasing a 900 series THIS fall, and a 42" no less, after i just ordered a 42800u thinking they mnay not ever make a 42" 1080p set again after these were gone.

but upon closer inspection it seems to be a PZ850 with a DVR inside it? I dunno, i bet if it ever even comes to america (that article mentioned only Japan) it would be pricier for no PQ benefits, if anything it could be worse if it doesnt have the THX features.....

As other have said they appear to be just Japans version of the 850 series although the nomenclature is a bit odd.

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpanasonic.jp%2Fviera%2Findex.html&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpanasonic.co.jp%2Fcorp%2Fnews%2Foff icial.data%2Fdata.dir%2Fjn080826-3%2Fjn080826-3.html&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ja&tl=en

Perhaps a hint at the direction we will see at CES with the internal HD.

There had been rumors of a mid-year panel that would have debuted the tru2way stuff but with that cert. process kind of blowing up on them that may have been put off.

As other have said they appear to be just Japans version of the 850 series although the nomenclature is a bit odd.

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpanasonic.jp%2Fviera%2Findex.html&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpanasonic.co.jp%2Fcorp%2Fnews%2Foff icial.data%2Fdata.dir%2Fjn080826-3%2Fjn080826-3.html&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ja&tl=en

Perhaps a hint at the direction we will see at CES with the internal HD.

There had been rumors of a mid-year panel that would have debuted the tru2way stuff but with that cert. process kind of blowing up on them that may have been put off.

yeah i read the garbled translated page and it does seem to make some contradictary but most tellign statements that it's basically an 850 with a DVR inside nothing more:

VIERA catch-quality copy of the new series is "live cinema quality". パネルや高画質化回路などの基本仕様は3月に発売した「PZ800シリーズ」と同等となっている。 Circuit panels and high-quality, basic specifications for March released a "PZ800 Series" has been the same.


Full HD "new generation PDP" in the panel, PDP dielectric layer on a plate in front of the newly developed "DAINAMIKKUBURAKKUREIYA" chips.

not sure what the hell they;'re saying herer, but i presume the "new generation" is really just the current 11g.

Preliminary discharge to reduce the contrast 30,000: 1 realized. ダイナミックコントラスト100万:1を達成し、「漆黒の黒表現力」とアピールしている。 DAINAMIKKUKONTORASUTO million: 1 to achieve the "jet black expressiveness," the appeal said. また細幅リブ技術による開口率向上なども輝度、コントラスト向上に寄与している。 The ribs narrow aperture ratio technologies such as improved brightness and contrast to contribute to the improvement.

while they make it sound like there's this big black advancement or something special being done to the blacks, i think since the contrast numbers are the same, they are just hyping up whateve black improvement has already been done for the 2008 displays


HDTV standards "ITU-R BT-709" to cover 100%, 120% color gamut area ratio of plasma panel wide range of colors, textures and rich colors to reproduce information.

this is probably just the studio reference mode tha 850 has

There had been rumors of a mid-year panel that would have debuted the tru2way stuff but with that cert. process kind of blowing up on them that may have been put off.
Well, the panel(s) with tru2way were supposed to be in the Fall. After the cert. process wasn't working well, Panny later said they still expected it this Fall. Fall is 3 mos., so probably just later in Fall. Somehow, I don't believe it, and I think we won't see tru2way from Panny until late April.

Mid-model year or roughly Sept./Oct. time frame was what I had expected.:)

Mid-model year or roughly Sept./Oct. time frame was what I had expected.:)

Hi,

If these PZ900 series of sets are coming out this Sept/Oct then will not not be replaced around April/May/June time next year when the G12 Panny's come out? If so, that's not a very long before they are superseded! These seem to be G11 sets with just differing features just tagged as 900 series or am I missing something?

Bazzy!

http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/28/panasonic-ifa-2008-prototypes-super-thin-super-green-super-bi/

Hi,

If these PZ900 series of sets are coming out this Sept/Oct then will not not be replaced around April/May/June time next year when the G12 Panny's come out? If so, that's not a very long before they are superseded! These seem to be G11 sets with just differing features just tagged as 900 series or am I missing something?

Bazzy!


Post #50;)

http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/28/panasonic-ifa-2008-prototypes-super-thin-super-green-super-bi/

Wow, thanks for that link VFR.

I remain skeptical on the wireless HD, but the rest sounds fantastic. I wonder how long we have to wait for such thin panels to reach market? I suppose this is probably a few years off yet at least. And I wish they'd say how much these 1" thick plasmas weigh actually weigh (Edit: I guess it says they are half the weight of a current plasma).

I'll bet that 150" is going to cost a pretty penny. ;)

http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/28/panasonic-ifa-2008-prototypes-super-thin-super-green-super-bi/
Minus wireless HD, what is different from what they showed as CES 2008?

^^^

the debut of three "super thin" plasma prototypes measuring 24.7mm deep in 50-inch and, for what it claims is the first time, 58- and 65-inch sizes

Wow, thanks for that link VFR.

I remain skeptical on the wireless HD, but the rest sounds fantastic. I wonder how long we have to wait for such thin panels to reach market? I suppose this is probably a few years off yet at least. And I wish they'd say how much these 1" thick plasmas weigh actually weigh (Edit: I guess it says they are half the weight of a current plasma).

I'll bet that 150" is going to cost a pretty penny. ;)

From what I have seen/read the 50" will be a reality as an 09 model.
I would expect the others as well but not fully sure.

They will have to remain competitive with this.:D
http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/08/kdl40zx1.jpg

http://gizmodo.com/5042861/sony-zx1-99mm+thick-tv-gives-me-a-large-hadron-collider-right-in-my-pants

Here is a link that provides more details about the Panasonic IFA 2008 press conference.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/news/2008/08/28/IFA-2008--Panasonic-Ultra-Thin-TVs---BD-Players-Revealed/p1

http://gizmodo.com/5042861/sony-zx1-99mm+thick-tv-gives-me-a-large-hadron-collider-right-in-my-pants

Nice! Now that the resolution and contrast (at least on paper) are similar, the battle moves onto screen thickness, weight, and power draw. By the time OLED comes down in price and up in size, will there be any advantage left for them?

Here is a link that provides more details about the Panasonic IFA 2008 press conference.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/news/2008/08/28/IFA-2008--Panasonic-Ultra-Thin-TVs---BD-Players-Revealed/p1

Wow those "Neo PDPs" make current Panasonics seem like real dinosaurs!

Wow those "Neo PDPs" make current Panasonics seem like real dinosaurs!

Yeah, its a bit hard to believe that this is all supposed to be here next spring. From 4" thick to 1" thick, just like that? That's a heck of an advancement if it all comes to pass.

Personally, I could care less about panel thickness. They need to worry about fixing other problems like 48hz flicker, black levels and screen brightness.

They did mention them being a lot brighter too. After the complaints they got this year I doubt they will go 48hz again. Next year could end up being Panasonic's year, maybe a bit of Kuro tech for those black levels, 5 lumen tech and much thinner too. Personally I think it's great because the plasmas other than Pioneer in todays market leave to be desired, competition is always good.

^^^Ahh, cool.

Mid-model year or roughly Sept./Oct. time frame was what I had expected.:)
But you didn't say that.;):D

Interesting they bumped the model to 900, but these appear to be just 8 series models with new features for Japan. The glass has the same contrast ratio as present displays, and I suspect Panasonic will bump it next year as it is known they will have new glass.
Sounds to me that Japan gets it's Panny plasmas in Fall instead of Spring? Maybe they use the numbering ahead of us in the US, eventhough it isn't necessarily better?

This is a bit confusing. It appears that Panasonic has released a 65PZ800 model now? I guess that would be a THX certified version that is 65"? So now there are two 65 models, the 850 and the 800, is that right?

http://www.gadgetell.com/tech/comment/panasonic-updates-their-zr900-pz800-plasma-hdtv-lineups/

Sounds to me that Japan gets it's Panny plasmas in Fall instead of Spring? Maybe they use the numbering ahead of us in the US, eventhough it isn't necessarily better?

Both Japan and US get new models rolled out over the course of the year. US just got the 58" and 65" 800/850 models for example. Japan first got 8 series models earlier this year, just like the US although they may have been available earlier, such as in January of Febrauary. Japan also seems to get more displays than the US, and that is what these PZR900 are - Japanese specific. Even though they started with the 900 numbering early, the displays that both the US and Japan get next year are still likely to be 9 series displays also with 9x/9xx numbering.

This is a bit confusing. It appears that Panasonic has released a 65PZ800 model now? I guess that would be a THX certified version that is 65"? So now there are two 65 models, the 850 and the 800, is that right?

http://www.gadgetell.com/tech/comment/panasonic-updates-their-zr900-pz800-plasma-hdtv-lineups/

For Japan, yes, as the article mentions.

I believe this is consistent with last year. I think that Japan had both 700 and 750 series 65" displays. They may have even gotten another japan-only lineup last year also, similar to the new PZR900 series for this year.

check the IFA 2008 press then, double brightness is coming!

no, i dont really need them though, that's like saying, "big black level boost from the Pioneer 7g to 8g, do you have numbers?". I mean, it's kind of obvious and well covered by pretty much any current or prospective owner of the set.

check the IFA 2008 press then, double brightness is coming!

if that is true, then that's completely useless, the brightness is fine as it is, if it's one thing Plasmas figured out a long time ago is that the continually "doubling of brightness" that LCD's do is pointless, since the max level most people should be using was long acheived, unless you want to get a headache when gaming or watching things in the dark.

The extra brightness the current panasonics afford doesnt need to be "doubled" from where it is, as i doubt most people even use the full potential of they currently have.

Wow, thanks for that link VFR.

I remain skeptical on the wireless HD, but the rest sounds fantastic. I wonder how long we have to wait for such thin panels to reach market? I suppose this is probably a few years off yet at least. And I wish they'd say how much these 1" thick plasmas weigh actually weigh (Edit: I guess it says they are half the weight of a current plasma).

I'll bet that 150" is going to cost a pretty penny. ;)
WOW - 65" @ 29 kg (64 lb.) and - "The tech is now deemed ‘market ready’ and will hit shelves in spring 2009."

Panasonic NeoPDP. Images.

First: Comparison shows twice the brightness of this years model, at the same power consumption level.

http://ex-blog.panasonic.co.jp/exhibition/en/ifa2008/ifa08-230-1.jpg

Second: Comparison shows when both panels are set to the same brightness levels, the NeoPDP panel consumes only have the energy that this year's model does.

http://ex-blog.panasonic.co.jp/exhibition/en/ifa2008/ifa08-230-2.jpg

This will result in those who are content with the brightness levels of their current plasmas to be able to cut the energy use in half, and for those that want to double the brightness levels, the NeoPDP panels will allow them to do so at the same energy consumption levels as this year's models.

In addition: Panasonic is claiming that the NeoPDP panels will exhibit unprecedented black levels.

Panasonic NeoPDP. Images.

First: Comparison shows twice the brightness of this years model, at the same power consumption level.

http://ex-blog.panasonic.co.jp/exhibition/en/ifa2008/ifa08-230-1.jpg

Second: Comparison shows when both panels are set to the same brightness levels, the NeoPDP panel consumes only have the energy that this year's model does.

http://ex-blog.panasonic.co.jp/exhibition/en/ifa2008/ifa08-230-2.jpg

This will result in those who are content with the brightness levels of their current plasmas to be able to cut the energy use in half, and for those that want to double the brightness levels, the NeoPDP panels will allow them to do so at the same energy consumption levels as this year's models.

In addition: Panasonic is claiming that the NeoPDP panels will exhibit unprecedented black levels.

it says double "efficiency" not double brightness, it just says "higher" brightness.

besides, i would expect the newest Pioneers to have highe brightness, but specing double of what the current panasonics have is just silly.

but it could just be like how kuros were 6 times blacked on 9g to 8g. depending on how you eye perceives the change, it might only look twice as black. could work in reverse for brightness to the human eye.

i think its great if panasonic can create an equal level plasma to compete with pioneer, pioneer seem to have a mark up on their products, and hopefully using panasonic to produce the panels can bring costs down, and hopefully give panasonic some edge nest time around.

but it could just be like how kuros were 6 times blacked on 9g to 8g. depending on how you eye perceives the change, it might only look twice as black. could work in reverse for brightness to the human eye.

i think its great if panasonic can create an equal level plasma to compete with pioneer, pioneer seem to have a mark up on their products, and hopefully using panasonic to produce the panels can bring costs down, and hopefully give panasonic some edge nest time around.

6 times between the 8 and 9g isnt actually that much if you pay attention to the actual numbers, once they get that small a 100% increase is in actuality a small number.

but brightness isnt measure in tenths and hundreths of foot lamberts.

twice the brightness is alot, and the 2008 Panasonics are already plenty bright, you dont need twice that brightness.

6 times between the 8 and 9g isnt actually that much if you pay attention to the actual numbers, once they get that small a 100% increase is in actuality a small number.

but brightness isnt measure in tenths and hundreths of foot lamberts.

twice the brightness is alot, and the 2008 Panasonics are already plenty bright, you dont need twice that brightness.

I've said it once I'll say it again, numbers mean absolutely nothing. Unless you've seen both TVs at home side by side you just can't know.

As for brightness are you kidding? This is exactly what Panasonic AND Pioneer need to fend off the LCD market. A lot of people won't buy plasma because of room lighting issues, this will give them a lot more flexibility. After black levels plasmas next challenge will be brightness (and whites) and processing.

I've said it once I'll say it again, numbers mean absolutely nothing. Unless you've seen both TVs at home side by side you just can't know.

As for brightness are you kidding? This is exactly what Panasonic AND Pioneer need to fend off the LCD market. A lot of people won't buy plasma because of room lighting issues, this will give them a lot more flexibility. After black levels plasmas next challenge will be brightness (and whites) and processing.

numbers mean plenty, just because a set has twice the blackness, if that doubling is only because the black level is already at one hundreth of a ftl, well that 100% increas doesnt mean much, and it will reflect that visually.

as for brightness, I sincerely doubt they woudl take the brightness levels panasonics already achevied this year and double it just to compete with LCD. Heck ,i had an LCD and i never used any where near that brightness, no one really does or should.

spincut, I know the brightness is enough for people like you and me but I think you know as well as I do people flock like moths to bright LCDs. I don't say WE need it more or less plasma needs it. :)

spincut, I know the brightness is enough for people like you and me but I think you know as well as I do people flock like moths to bright LCDs. I don't say WE need it more or less plasma needs it. :)

no, not just like you and me, most normal people too. If you watch any LCD with its brightness/backlight kicked up to max you will get very sore eyes.

Plasmas dont need to get brighter, and if they do maek a decision, it's generally not purely sales floor based, again i sincerely doubt they would add double the brightness of what Panasonic panels currently offer (which are quite bright), but i definetly dont think they'll do it just so they can look like LCD's on a show floor.

no, not just like you and me, most normal people too. If you watch any LCD with its brightness/backlight kicked up to max you will get very sore eyes.

Plasmas dont need to get brighter, and if they do maek a decision, it's generally not purely sales floor based, again i sincerely doubt they would add double the brightness of what Panasonic panels currently offer (which are quite bright), but i definetly dont think they'll do it just so they can look like LCD's on a show floor.

34fl in THX mode isn't bright! Not everyone likes using the other modes during the day. I don't know what you're talking about, brightness is the #1 issue people have with plasma, people comment they don't look as good on the floor and go LCD, you see it all over the forum. I agree they're damned bright in custom mode or vivid but who uses that?

34fl in THX mode isn't bright! Not everyone likes using the other modes during the day. I don't know what you're talking about, brightness is the #1 issue people have with plasma, people comment they don't look as good on the floor and go LCD, you see it all over the forum. I agree they're damned bright in custom mode or vivid but who uses that?

um, measuring brightness in THX mode doesnt have anything to do with the max brightness the set is capable of.

if they increased the brightness and had the same THX mode it wouldnt be any brighter, it's the mode not the set you're reffering to.

you just said it yourself, the other modes are brighter, if you think peopel dont even use them, then i'm really not sure what point you're trying to make, it more proves my point that people dont use the already very high brightness levels of the current Panasonics....so double that is really unecesary, and unlikely.

um, measuring brightness in THX mode doesnt have anything to do with the max brightness the set is capable of.

if they increased the brightness and had the same THX mode it wouldnt be any brighter, it's the mode not the set you're reffering to.

you just said it yourself, the other modes are brighter, if you think peopel dont even use them, then i'm really not sure what point you're trying to make, it more proves my point that people dont use the already very high brightness levels of the current Panasonics....so double that is really unecesary, and unlikely.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, THX mode on the 800U is the only accurate mode and the numbers all reviewers use to measure brightness. Panasonic's next gen panels will be twice as bright (in THX/Cinema too, with the option to dial down) and people will like it, we'll discuss this again next year. :)

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, THX mode on the 800U is the only accurate mode and the numbers all reviewers use to measure brightness. Panasonic's next gen panels will be twice as bright (in THX/Cinema too, with the option to dial down) and people will like it, we'll discuss this again next year. :)

THX is just a preset. a pre-"set", as in its set at specific settings, it has nothing to do with the max brightness of the set.

There is no agreeing to disagree when you're saying it outloud yourself.

A preset mode does not determine the actual brightness of the set.

Furthermore, increasing the brightness would technically have nothing to do with the mode itself and would not change if they included the same mode, as it is if they wanted they could make THX brighter, because the set itself can already do brightness much higher.

The other modes being inacurrate has nothing to do with it, they are just other presets that have different brightness settings, higher ones, because the set does have pretty high brightness capability.

and again, i've said this many times, increasing the brightness wouldnt effect the THX mode, it's presets are used at specific levels, of which the tv can obviously do higher as it is, they wouldnt increase it just because the max level went up when it could already be higher right now.

THX is just a preset. a pre-"set", as in its set at specific settings, it has nothing to do with the max brightness of the set.

There is no agreeing to disagree when you're saying it outloud yourself.

A preset mode does not determine the actual brightness of the set.

Furthermore, increasing the brightness would technically have nothing to do with the mode itself and would not change if they included the same mode, as it is if they wanted they could make THX brighter, because the set itself can already do brightness much higher.

The other modes being inacurrate has nothing to do with it, they are just other presets that have different brightness settings, higher ones, because the set does have pretty high brightness capability.

and again, i've said this many times, increasing the brightness wouldnt effect the THX mode, it's presets are used at specific levels, of which the tv can obviously do higher as it is, they wouldnt increase it just because the max level went up when it could already be higher right now.

No THX can't use that extra brightness because they get that extra brightness by screwing up the picture, that extra brightness is lower gamma and clipped whites. If THX was brighter it would increase the overall contrast ratio of the display and make it useable in a number of situations, if you think Panasonic or Pioneer for that matter makes their accurate modes less bright on purpose you might want to read up a bit.

Hi,

To Spincut & Patrick - I have no idea which one of you is right or wrong but unlike me, it sure seems both of you really know your stuff!

Bazzy!

it says double "efficiency" not double brightness, it just says "higher" brightness.

besides, i would expect the newest Pioneers to have highe brightness, but specing double of what the current panasonics have is just silly.

I have no idea what you think Pioneer has to do with what I posted. It was images of the Panasonic demonstrations. Pioneer did not demonstrate any Plasmas at the IFA2008 in Germany.

Here is what was reported from the IFA show. You sure love to spread a lot of FUD. I stand by my figures.

http://ex-blog.panasonic.co.jp/exhibition/en/2008/05/chitec08_170.html

Excerpt:

"In the "NeoPDP Technology" corner, you will find a section dedicated to the exhibition of highly efficient luminance technology used in the plasma display panels announced at the International CES this January. Two 42-inch plasma display panels are exhibited side by side. The brightness of the screen on the right illustrates the brightness of traditional models, while the screen on the left is twice as bright thanks to this technology. If you tone down the brightness of the screen on the left to the level equal to that of traditional models, the power consumption is reduced by approximately 50%, so its efficiency is quite apparent."

The NeoPDP doubles the brightness, at the same power consumption level, or the NeoPDP brightness level can be set at the same level as this years panel, and it will provide a 50% reduction in energy consumption.

We are all aware, because you have said it over and over, that increased brightness is not important to you. Fine, then no one will force you to use it, but would you or would you not like to instead have a panel that cuts power consumption in half, which will reduce the heat being generated, and will probably put less stress on the electronics.

The NeoPDP, aka 5 lumen tech, is designed to give higher APL performance for said power consumption. if two panels are consuming 400 watts of power, the NeoPDP will produce 2x the brightness due to a more efficient cell structure, panel driving, and panel materials.

You will see 5 lumen tech (aka NeoPDP) in all Japanese based PDP modules next year. The Koreans will also have something similar.

Very nice to hear D-Nice!

Chris

No THX can't use that extra brightness because they get that extra brightness by screwing up the picture, that extra brightness is lower gamma and clipped whites. If THX was brighter it would increase the overall contrast ratio of the display and make it useable in a number of situations, if you think Panasonic or Pioneer for that matter makes their accurate modes less bright on purpose you might want to read up a bit.

but it still is EXTRA BRIGHTNESS, you raise the brightness, it wont have anything to do with the "pre-set" mode.

They pick the appropriate level of brightness, but unless it's at max, then it's already at where it is capable, hence raising it wont change anything in that respect. if you want to measure the max capable brightness of the set then you measure that, not where it happens to be set on any given preset.

but it still is EXTRA BRIGHTNESS, you raise the brightness, it wont have anything to do with the "pre-set" mode.

They pick the appropriate level of brightness, but unless it's at max, then it's already at where it is capable, hence raising it wont change anything in that respect. if you want to measure the max capable brightness of the set then you measure that, not where it happens to be set on any given preset.

Ok then go tell that to every reviewer in the world that calibrates displays to measure brightness.

Ok then go tell that to every reviewer in the world that calibrates displays to measure brightness.

measuring the brightness in any given mode does not measure the brightness the set can do, the fact that you dont like the brighter modes and choose to measure the brightness in dimmer THX mode doesnt really say anything to the actual issue, that is that the set can go brighter.

now if you woul like to change your statement fine, but as it stands you are not measuring peak brightness of the set by doing that, you're measuring peak brightness of a default setting in a pre-set mode, but that has little to do with the max brightness of the set, and that is what would be doubled if they made such an unecesary advance, not the measured output at a lower setting on any given default mode.

measuring the brightness in any given mode does not measure the brightness the set can do, the fact that you dont like the brighter modes and choose to measure the brightness in dimmer THX mode doesnt really say anything to the actual issue, that is that the set can go brighter.


You're just saying the same non sense over and over again. Professional reviewers don't use those modes and they get the extra brigthness by hurting the picture, obviously this goes right over your head. Read any review of a plasma and see if they do their measurements in vivid mode, maybe that's what you like viewing your set on but no one will determine brightness with those settings. Go read this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=890780. Maybe you might actually grasp why this is important for plasma displays, if not it's obviously lost on you because your hopelessly in love with your new TV. If cutting power consumption in half at the same brightness and allowing it to go brighter with an accurate picture is useless to you, fine. Other people know this is going to be a technological breakthrough but you seem content with saying it's "useless" because you just got an 800U and like defending your purchase. I have no problem saying this is a very good thing for plasmas and I'll definitely be envious of people that own panels with that technology but I'm very happy technology is advancing because it just means they'll be that much better the next time I'm in the martket. Get over your own purchase and look at things a little differently

You're just saying the same non sense over and over again. Professional reviewers don't use those modes and they get the extra brigthness by hurting the picture, obviously this goes right over your head. Read any review of a plasma and see if they do their measurements in vivid mode, maybe that's what you like viewing your set on but no one will determine brightness with those settings. Go read this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=890780. Maybe you might actually grasp why this is important for plasma displays, if not it's obviously lost on you because your hopelessly in love with your new TV. If cutting power consumption in half at the same brightness and allowing it to go brighter with an accurate picture is useless to you, fine. Other people know this is going to be a technological breakthrough but you seem content with saying it's "useless" because you just got an 800U and like defending your purchase. I have no problem saying this is a very good thing for plasmas and I'll definitely be envious of people that own panels with that technology but I'm very happy technology is advancing because it just means they'll be that much better the next time I'm in the martket. Get over your own purchase and look at things a little differently

wow so many personal jabs, i wouldn't think you'd get so childish.

maybe it's over your head to understand what i'm saying so you fall back on accusing me of "defending my purchase", when in fact i would say this (and have been saying this) even before i owned that set, so i think you should get over your own false presumptions before being so sure of yourself.

to be frank you seem to be saying the same nonsense too. just because a mode is well calibrated does not mean it has anything to do with the top brightness level the set is capable of, nor does it mean the reason the brightness is what it is at is the highest possible acheivable, but rather the DESIRED level acheivable. If that desired level is not the max brightness, than a brightness increase is not really necesary (nor does the mode have much to do with the max acheivable brightness unless you alte the default settings).

you can get more ugly, rude, childish and personal, call what i'm saying nonsense, say it's over my head, or shortsightedly accuse what i'm saying as being a direct result of being an owner, but it's a very pathetic dodge to do so, for being so suddenly snooty about things going over "my" head, i find it ironic that you would behave so childishly.

I dont think it's useless to cut power consumption, we were never really talking about that, that is until you decided to put words in my mouth saying i thought that was useless, but go ahead take more personal shots, it seems to aleviate your frustrations, i however dont see the point in trying to make personal attacks in my responses the way you just did.

The only reason I said it's over your head is because I and other posters have commented on the value of the new innovations and you keep going on about how it's not needed, I stand by what I said about taking measurements and I'm sure most calibrators would agree. If you take it as a personal attack then take it as one, all I've been trying to say all along is this is a very good and needed breakthrough for plasma displays and I don't see why anyone would disagree.

there you go again, i never said "new innovations" arent needed.

but more brightness is not a "new innovation" and is all we've really been talking about, anything else you think we've been talking about is your own perogative, particularily your sudden insistance that i dont care about power efficiency. On the contrary, I think half the power consumption at the current levels of brightness (at least the 2008 Panasonics brightness) would be great.

as far as i'm aware the current Panasonics with the high brightness boost they have been given has supplied for more brightness than would ever be needed for anything practicle, as anything near its current max goes unused anyway.

It's like being excided if the Sony XBR9's doubled their brightness when the brightness on the XBR2's was already more than enough, as even getting near the max on that alone would be highly unecesary, and the 2008 Panasonics have finally gotten to that level.

Like I said, I have no problem with the current brightness of the plasmas, but it would be nice to be able to use one in a sunbathed room just like an LCD. If the brightness part is not important to you that's ok, I can undestand that. At least we can agree that the power consumption and thinner panels are nice things coming down the road.

Like I said, I have no problem with the current brightness of the plasmas, but it would be nice to be able to use one in a sunbathed room just like an LCD. If the brightness part is not important to you that's ok, I can undestand that. At least we can agree that the power consumption and thinner panels are nice things coming down the road.

as far as i'm aware not even an LCD has to be in torch mode to be watchable in a bright room. With the brightnessl evels i've seen off the 2008 Panasonics, it would seem like they already can be set for brigh rooms....at least in terms of brightness.....dont know about the screen material though, and that isnt going to be changing as far as i'm aware.

Well the Kuros do well in bright light compared to Panasonics, something about the anti reflective coating. They don't seem as gray. If Pioneer and Panasonic join forces next they may very well do better than even current efforts.

Well the Kuros do well in bright light compared to Panasonics, something about the anti reflective coating. They don't seem as gray. If Pioneer and Panasonic join forces next they may very well do better than even current efforts.

the "kuros" dont seem as grey? I would think that it would be the other way around, as the greyness seems to have more to do with brightness levels, which as has been discussed the 2008 Panasonics seem to do pretty crisply.

But agian, if you're refering to merely the picture in bright lights due to the anti reflective panel, well that seems like it will remain rather constant.

actually, the one thing one can really get out of a plasma in a store environment in my mind is it's AR capability, considering how birghtly lit the stores usually are (much to the detriment of measuring anything else).

and i must admit, i dont really see the so called superior AR screen the Pioneer claims to have, it looks very similar to the rest of the AR plasmas as far as what it does and does not reflect.

It's not that much better, it reflects but it still looks a shade darker when off and seems to work with the room light a bit better. Like I said it's no night and day difference, the Panasonic's have an excellent anti glare screen too. One thing about the Kuros is relections have a purple tint, Panasonic's don't do that. Totally agree about the store environment, it's too bad most people can't see plasmas where they can perform at their best.

Some info. on the wireless tech. :

http://ex-blog.panasonic.co.jp/exhibition/en/2008/08/ifa_290.html

There had been rumors of a mid-year panel that would have debuted the tru2way stuff but with that cert. process kind of blowing up on them that may have been put off.

A little more info. from Cedia:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/09/05/panasonic-holds-live-tru2way-demonstration-on-th-50pz80q-plasma/

They said they were going to do it, and do it they did. While Samsung's tru2way "demonstration" was barely more than a hack job used to show off what the technology was about, Panasonic demoed the real deal at its CEDIA booth. The 50-inch TH-50PZ80Q plasma contained a real CableCARD (yes, we checked) and was receiving a live signal from Comcast. Denver is just one of a few markets where tru2way is theoretically ready to rock, and according to a Panny rep, the set we saw today is a production unit that will ship sometime "later this year." The idea here is to provide buyers with the ability to insert any CableCARD from any carrier (if you move, for example) into an HDTV, thus eliminating the cable company's stranglehold (best known as a "carrier-issued set-top-box") on you. The demo we saw went over very well -- everything was responsive and image quality was excellent. See for yourself in the gallery below.

any word on improved phosphor lag with the new 25mm thick plasmas?

just check this year 46PZ80, it's 38.7mm thick, weight 81LB , so new model are half thick, hopefully will be half weight as well :)

just check this year 46PZ80, it's 38.7mm thick, weight 81LB , so new model are half thick, hopefully will be half weight as well :)

38.7mm?

No way. Its 3.7'' thick which is about 94mm. The new models will be over 3 times thinner than current models.

you are right, it's 387mm thick with stand :rolleyes:

Woo......I will wait 9 month from now! :)


38.7mm?

No way. Its 3.7'' thick which is about 94mm. The new models will be over 3 times thinner than current models.

Heys guys just some skinny on Panasonic 12G panels. 5 lumens tech will only be used on their thin panel PDP (NEO PDP), not the based models. The 12G based models will be brighter than the 11G but will not implement 5 lumens tech. I just got off the phone with a Panasonic rep (I work for a mom and pop retailer on the west coast). Also the Neo PDP will only be in a 50". I guess panasonic wants to test the waters out first before going into bigger sizes. Prices will be about 2k over the base models.

Heys guys just some skinny on Panasonic 12G panels. 5 lumens tech will only be used on their thin panel PDP (NEO PDP),True...sort of. The thins may not be the only ones

not the based models.True

Also the Neo PDP will only be in a 50".Not from what I hear ;)

D-Nice -

What have you heard?

D-Nice -

What have you heard?

from earlier posts in this thread:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/28/panasonic-ifa-2008-prototypes-super-thin-super-green-super-bi/

http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/news/2008/08/28/IFA-2008--Panasonic-Ultra-Thin-TVs---BD-Players-Revealed/p1

from earlier posts in this thread:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/28/panasonic-ifa-2008-prototypes-super-thin-super-green-super-bi/

http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/news/2008/08/28/IFA-2008--Panasonic-Ultra-Thin-TVs---BD-Players-Revealed/p1

Unless I'm reading wrong, the link above says NeoPDP will arrive in spring 2009 and is market ready. Does that mean the regular consumer models from panasonic will have 5 lumen?

D-Nice -

What have you heard?There will be more than 50" models when released.

Unless I'm reading wrong, the link above says NeoPDP will arrive in spring 2009 and is market ready. Does that mean the regular consumer models from panasonic will have 5 lumen?Unless that new plant goes online early, there is no way in hell you see NeoPDPs in stores this spring.

You guys instead of bringing out all this 1 inch PDPs next year, I think SED is what should be out to really hype up the market. Because next year it's really a Plasma vs LCD war if you think about it.

a PANASONIC rep can know next year roadmap and price strategy :rolleyes: no way

Heys guys just some skinny on Panasonic 12G panels. 5 lumens tech will only be used on their thin panel PDP (NEO PDP), not the based models. The 12G based models will be brighter than the 11G but will not implement 5 lumens tech. I got off the phone with a Panasonic rep (I work for a mom and pop retailer on the west coast). Also the Neo PDP will only be in a 50". I guess panasonic wants to test the waters out first before going into bigger sizes. Prices will be about 2k over the base models.

a PANASONIC rep can know next year roadmap and price strategy :rolleyes: no way

Believe it or not they can. I will have more info as we get closer to CES.

You guys instead of bringing out all this 1 inch PDPs next year, I think SED is what should be out to really hype up the market. Because next year it's really a Plasma vs LCD war if you think about it.

SED = Dead

Hi All,

I read somewhere that these Neo-PDP Panels will also offer the very best black levels - is there any truth to this? I thought the main and primary benefit of Neo-PDP was the reduction in power consumption?

Bazzy!

Neo- PDP manufacture cost is lower than current model, so Panasonic not supposed to charge a premier price fr new model

not like LED BACKLIGHT LCD manufacture cost is higher than CCFL Backlight LCD.

SED = Dead

I hope not, but lets not make this a SED discussion thread because it's not.

Are there any reviews of NeoPDP (5 lumen tech) panels?
If not, how can we be "sure" PQ (everything) will surpass current (11G) panels?

Will 12G panels be able too accept & display 24 fps?
(is there a 'fix' for 11G panels?)

[no, I've not read the entire thread]

Hope this doesn't turn into another:
"It's good enough for me"
thread!

Are we going to have too wait for CES for any more news?

How the heck do you get the 150" in the house?!?!?! :-0
Or, do you build around it!?!?! ;-)

With economy deteriorating rapidly, Panny & other manufacturers might hold off on newer models with big improvements.

OR

They may begin to produce them, However the intial price will be super high.

In any case next year will NOT be the year to buy one as with all new High End technology YOU DON"T WANT TO bE A BETA TESTER. Also the 2nd round will be greatly improved.

I find it funny that one thinks a tv with a perfect FL output should increase its brightness beyond what is proper because "lcd's look brighter".

The light output of the 2008 panny plasmas is perfect. The idea of using half the power to sustain that level is great. There is no need to increase the level of light output in these tv's.

you all never heard of ultra-thin 24.7mm panny plasma? that would be the 12g?? hopefully

My 2008 is plenty thin enough and thin enough doesnt make the blurays look better. More time should be spent improving CR and PQ as opposed to making a paper thin tv.

I was just thinking about buying a new tv and now I don't know if I want to wait or not...

With economy deteriorating rapidly, Panny & other manufacturers might hold off on newer models with big improvements.

OR

They may begin to produce them, However the intial price will be super high.

In any case next year will NOT be the year to buy one as with all new High End technology YOU DON"T WANT TO bE A BETA TESTER. Also the 2nd round will be greatly improved.
This is new tech, NeoPDP, that from what I've read will lower production cost.
Not too the point we will be seeing '09 Panny's for lower than what the '08 Panny's were released at; however MSRP of '09 should be the same as '08.

And the 12G's will offer consumers lower energy costs.

How about the new factory?
Do you think they built it too raise costs?

I agree 'bout the beta tester (1st adopter) thingy. I never want too be one.
That's why I looking/hoping for reviews (besides: man that screen is BIG!).
The 150" is 4K; are any other sizes 4K?

I was just thinking about buying a new tv and now I don't know if I want to wait or not...
As previously posted, most people don't wish too be the 1st on their block w/new tech.
2nd G NeoPDP will not be out till 2010 (& not early 2010 either). So if you wish too wait, wait.
However, performance & prices of '08 (& still some 700's) are fantastic.
About a 1/3 of the cost & like twice the PQ of a typical four yr old plasma (& absolutely smoke any four yr old LCD).

Believe me, we all go though what your going though.
Just think! You could be watching a Panny plasma today!
Instead of waiting another 24 months.
It's up too you!

You're right... I don't think I can wait that long. I'm sure I'll be more than satisfied with an 08 model.

You're right... I don't think I can wait that long. I'm sure I'll be more than satisfied with an 08 model.
Once you turn that bad boy on...
(you'll think your living in 2010 :p )

Forgot too add:
"Welcome too the forum!"

(if the thread on the model here at AVS overwhelms you, don't forget CNET, HDGuru, & other online review sites. good luck!)

Once you turn that bad boy on...
(you'll think your living in 2010 :p )

Forgot too add:
"Welcome too the forum!"

(if the thread on the model here at AVS overwhelms you, don't forget CNET, HDGuru, & other online review sites. good luck!)

Thanks. :D I'm really glad I found this place.

How about the new factory?
Do you think they built it too raise costs?



Panny started building the factory almost a year ago when the economy was still good.

Panny started building the factory almost a year ago when the economy was still good.
So, you do think the new factory will lower manufacturing costs?
Just the economy will effect sales therefore raising MSRP?
I think the new factory & the economy will both have an effect on keeping street prices low.

As previously posted, most people don't wish too be the 1st on their block w/new tech.
2nd G NeoPDP will not be out till 2010 (& not early 2010 either). So if you wish too wait, wait.

Just think! You could be watching a Panny plasma today!
Instead of waiting another 24 months.
It's up too you!
No, the first gen. is set for Spring '09; so the second gen., if pattern holds, would be Spring '10., ~18 mos.:)

No, the first gen. is set for Spring '09; so the second gen., if pattern holds, would be Spring '10., ~18 mos.:)1G NeoPDP ,aka 5 lumen tech, is scheduled for Q3 2009 unless that new plant comes online early.

1G NeoPDP ,aka 5 lumen tech, is scheduled for Q3 2009 unless that new plant comes online early.

D-Nice,

you seem to have a lot of inside info. Do you happen to know if Panasonic's 09 models still include 720p models or are the 08 the last year?

-Vic

No, the first gen. is set for Spring '09; so the second gen., if pattern holds, would be Spring '10., ~18 mos.:)

1G NeoPDP ,aka 5 lumen tech, is scheduled for Q3 2009 unless that new plant comes online early.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/news/2008/08/28/IFA-2008--Panasonic-Ultra-Thin-TVs---BD-Players-Revealed/p1

"Best of all – building on the 50in NeoPDP set announced at CES – the tech is now deemed ‘market ready’ and will hit shelves in spring 2009."

Is that source not accurate?

http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/news/2008/08/28/IFA-2008--Panasonic-Ultra-Thin-TVs---BD-Players-Revealed/p1

"Best of all – building on the 50in NeoPDP set announced at CES – the tech is now deemed ‘market ready’ and will hit shelves in spring 2009."

Is that source not accurate?

The article is correct. Spring has always been the target.

The article is correct. Spring has always been the target.The NeoPDPs are coming from Panasonic's new plant. Now unless that plant comes online early, explain how we will see NeoPDPs on store shelves before 6/21/09?

And no, none of the current PDP plants will be producing NeoPDPs in the beginning.

BTW, welcome back sampo. Why did you ditch your SonyXBR username?

The NeoPDPs are coming from Panasonic's new plant. Now unless that plant comes online early, explain how we will see NeoPDPs on store shelves before 6/21/09

"Panasonic readies world's largest plasma TV factory

Construction is scheduled to start in November 2007 and the first phase of production will begin in May 2009."

For example: Panasonic will produce, test and package batch of NEO-PDPs in the first week of May and ship it the next week? http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/2226_yawning.gif

"Panasonic readies world's largest plasma TV factory

Construction is scheduled to start in November 2007 and the first phase of production will begin in May 2009."

For example: Panasonic will produce, test and package batch of NEO-PDPs in the first week of May and ship it the next week? http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/2226_yawning.gifSorry sampo, production ramp up doesn't work like that. There will be samples in May, but by no means will they ship anything in May.

Too bad I can't stay and play in your "limited time only" playground....gotta get on the road.

Can you limit the FUD you spread today....pretty please :D

There will be samples in May, but by no means will they ship anything in May.

Samples are already available. You might want take look at CES, IFA, Display and CEATEC show reports. :rolleyes:

When I look at the sun it is so bright it hurts my eyes.

No display matches that.

Wake me up when the first one does--it will reproduce what my eyes see in real life.

People who say that displays shouldn't get brighter are silly!

If life is brighter than displays or whatever source or standard that is sent to them--then the displays should be brighter, too.

Course sometimes real life isn't super bright--they should be able to reproduce that too.

I look forward to the day when ultimate black hole blacks are achieved by all plasmas so that we can then chase greater brightness but without messing up portions of the picture that may not be either black or bright!

I look forward to the day when the eye itself can be improved!

I look forward to the day when we can take garbage in and make the picture better!--who cares about reproducing the inferior?

I can hear John Lennon singing: Imagine there's no MSRP--I wonder if you can?

Can you Imagine strawberry fields forerver without red push?

I'd like to one day smoke a plasma TV!

When I look at the sun it is so bright it hurts my eyes.

No display matches that.

Wake me up when the first one does--it will reproduce what my eyes see in real life.

People who say that displays shouldn't get brighter are silly!

If life is brighter than displays or whatever source or standard that is sent to them--then the displays should be brighter, too.

Course sometimes real life isn't super bright--they should be able to reproduce that too.

I look forward to the day when ultimate black hole blacks are achieved by all plasmas so that we can then chase greater brightness but without messing up portions of the picture that may not be either black or bright!

I look forward to the day when the eye itself can be improved!

I look forward to the day when we can take garbage in and make the picture better!--who cares about reproducing the inferior?

I can hear John Lennon singing: Imagine there's no MSRP--I wonder if you can?

Can you Imagine strawberry fields forerver without red push?

I'd like to one day smoke a plasma TV!


Dolby Vision HDR LCDs are for you then....they can be CRAZY bright to the point some peoples eyes hurt when viewing demos of them....

I really do think the added brightness is required to compete in the showroom at the very least. Go to a Best Buy and view the panels. The frequently have full white screens that make the Plasmas look gray in comparison to LCD's.

I know very well this is not a problem at home. I never feel my 657UY is gray, but there are times during the day, that the added brightness would be welcome.

My brother is in the market display but I am still trying to convince him that a Plasma would be plenty bright in his room. So you see, you can explain it to people all you want but the showroom experience cannot be denied.

On a technical note, the NeoPDPs are more efficient and therefore cheaper to produce, so how is it that that can use the same power-draw to achieve twice the brightness?

- Rich

You know guys since Panasonic is selling their panels to Pioneer and Hitachi next year, I hope they will improve their video processing. They just went cheap this year with their video processing. Even Samsung has better v.p than them. My uncle has the TH50PZ85 and is very noises compare to my Hitachi P50X902. People shouldn't have to put the video mode on cinema/THX mode to get rid of the video noise. As far as brightness this year Panasonic is plenty bright but I guess they just to wipe out the LCD market next year. Next year will be interesting for plasma tvs.

I asked this two months ago, and didn't get an answer; maybe there is new info. now.

Any word or how likely is a 54" plasma from Panasonic in Spring '09?

(Hey, nobody expected a 46" plasma from them, right?);)

I asked this two months ago, and didn't get an answer; maybe there is new info. now.

Any word or how likely is a 54" plasma from Panasonic in Spring '09?

(Hey, nobody expected a 46" plasma from them, right?);)

I doubt it but you never know. They have displayed a 50, 58, and 65 in the neo-pdp models. I would think the other line will stay the same. I think it probably has a lot to do with how large the "mother" glass is that they cut the smaller panels from and how they can do that with the least amount of waste. We know they make a 103" and 150" mother glass now, my guess is that the 150 will be the one the neo-pdps are cut from.

my guess is that the 150 will be the one the neo-pdps are cut from.Bingo. And that glass can only be made (full production wise) at the new production facility.

+1 Bingo :D

I doubt it but you never know. They have displayed a 50, 58, and 65 in the neo-pdp models. I would think the other line will stay the same. I think it probably has a lot to do with how large the "mother" glass is that they cut the smaller panels from and how they can do that with the least amount of waste. We know they make a 103" and 150" mother glass now, my guess is that the 150 will be the one the neo-pdps are cut from.
So, then how were they able to get a 46" panel, while still maintaining the 42", 50", and 58" panels?

I was told for years that they couldn't do this with the current panel configuration, but then they finally did; just when I didn't need a 46" plasma anymore.

Save a 54" Panny or Samsung -or- 55" Pioneer, I will have to go with a 50" plasma to replace my 50" LCD RPTV.

HDGuru has just posted an extensive report on CEATEC 2008. He provides a lot of information on Panasonic plans for their 2009 plasma models, etc.

He also covers Pioneer having displayed their first LCD Kuro models.

Here is the link to his write up. If you have any questions, post them on the comments section at the bottom of his report. In the past, he has been very good at answering such inquiries.

http://hdguru.com/

Is the 150" the only "4K" 12G?
HDGuru has just posted an extensive report on CEATEC 2008. He provides a lot of information on Panasonic plans for their 2009 plasma models, etc.
http://hdguru.com/
Thanks for the link.
I "needed" an update fix! :D
You know guys since Panasonic is selling their panels to Pioneer and Hitachi next year, I hope they will improve their video processing. They just went cheap this year with their video processing. Even Samsung has better v.p than them. My uncle has the TH50PZ85 and is very noises compare to my Hitachi P50X902. People shouldn't have to put the video mode on cinema/THX mode to get rid of the video noise.
Pana may indeed upgrade (I think its a "must"), however as stated in the HD Guru link: Hitachi will go their own way as far as electronics (even tho the panel is indeed Pana).
Let's hope for something like: Hitachi's "Super Resolution" SD upconversion chip.

I also expect tru2way on the 2009 models. There will probably be a separate model with tru2way. So if you don't need integrated digital cable then get the non tru2way. If you want digital cable but don't want a dvr then get this tv. All it needs is a cable card and you get digital cable. Not all areas have tru2way. A lot of cable systems are OCAP/tru2way so they should hopefully offer more of them soon. In 2009 all the major MSO's should have tru2way/OCAP live and active.

The NeoPDPs will be available in screen sizes from 42” up to 103” :p

Since NeoPDP price maybe higher than regular model, I think Panasonic maybe launch 50"+ size NeoPDP first :)

panny isn't moving to 72Hz/96Hz??????????????????
................that's very, very disappointing and pathetic

The NeoPDPs will be available in screen sizes from 42” up to 103” :p
Do you know what screen sizes will be available?
I am hoping for some new choices.

panny isn't moving to 72Hz/96Hz??????????????????
................that's very, very disappointing and pathetic

Don't they already use 96Hz in their commercial displays? I don't see why they can't just put that in their consumer displays instead of trying to "fix" the 48Hz flicker.

Don't they already use 96Hz in their commercial displays? I don't see why they can't just put that in their consumer displays instead of trying to "fix" the 48Hz flicker.Lets hope they do something to fix it as I will be in the market for a new 58" next year.

I'd prefer 24fps done right.
(an option for 48, or 72, or etc. would be OK; just I understand that's expensive)

we will probably know in 2009 CES :)

Do you know what screen sizes will be available?
I am hoping for some new choices.

we will probably know in 2009 CES :)
Precisely, and wait is what I intend to do. I am/was looking hard at the Panny 850 series. Now I have made up my mind to wait until after the CES 2009 announcements and then decide if I want to wait for a 2009 Panny set or go ahead a buy an 850.

This is a question for D-Nice or anyone else but I've been going back and forth between going with the TH-50PZ800U or just waiting it out for the new Neo PDP's. If a 50" NEO PDP from Panasonic will provide you with better blacks and will also play back a Blu-ray disc in true 24fps without any flicker (assuming its also not more than five grand), then perhaps I'll wait it out. I also game and had considered going with the Samsung LCD 850 series. My real concern when it comes to plasma in general is if it can hold up in the gaming arena. I wonder if the new neo models will improve in this area? The Samsung 850 looks real nice but if I'm going to have a better HD picture with either the TH-50PZ800U or the newer Neo models then I'll go with the Panasonic Plasma instead and not worry so much about the gaming aspect.

Precisely, and wait is what I intend to do. I am/was looking hard at the Panny 850 series. Now I have made up my mind to wait until after the CES 2009 announcements and then decide if I want to wait for a 2009 Panny set or go ahead a buy an 850.
If you really care about picture quality, then I think it will be smart to wait 4-5 months for the 2009-model Pannys (which is what I'm doing).

I'm willing to bet that, in a side-by-side comparison, the black level of the entry-level 2009 Pannys will make the black level of the 2008 Pannys look grey.

Be patient, and you won't regret it. :cool:

This is a question for D-Nice or anyone else but I've been going back and forth between going with the TH-50PZ800U or just waiting it out for the new Neo PDP's. If a 50" NEO PDP from Panasonic will provide you with better blacks and will also play back a Blu-ray disc in true 24fps without any flicker (assuming its also not more than five grand), then perhaps I'll wait it out. I also game and had considered going with the Samsung LCD 850 series. My real concern when it comes to plasma in general is if it can hold up in the gaming arena. I wonder if the new neo models will improve in this area? The Samsung 850 looks real nice but if I'm going to have a better HD picture with either the TH-50PZ800U or the newer Neo models then I'll go with the Panasonic Plasma instead and not worry so much about the gaming aspect.

5 grand for a 50" plasma is absurd. especially from panasonic. i dont care how good it claims to be. we already have one pioneer pushing people around. we dont need two.

Ya, five grand is definitely out of my price range. Hopefully we're looking at around $2500-$3000 tops for a new 50" Neo. Just like everyone else here I've been interested in these. I've read reviews on the TH-50PZ800U and for the most part people are really impressed with it. All depends on how Panasonic will market the new Neo's and if they will also come out with an upgraded 800U, assuming we're talking the 900 and 950 series.

If you really care about picture quality, then I think it will be smart to wait 4-5 months for the 2009-model Pannys (which is what I'm doing).
5-6 more mos., but who's counting.;):)

a little writeup:
http://www.switched.com/2008/10/03/7-cool-tvs-from-the-future-panasonic-neo-pdp/

5-6 more mos., but who's counting.;):)Try about 9+ months.

This is a question for D-Nice or anyone else but I've been going back and forth between going with the TH-50PZ800U or just waiting it out for the new Neo PDP's. If a 50" NEO PDP from Panasonic will provide you with better blacks and will also play back a Blu-ray disc in true 24fps without any flicker (assuming its also not more than five grand), then perhaps I'll wait it out. I also game and had considered going with the Samsung LCD 850 series. My real concern when it comes to plasma in general is if it can hold up in the gaming arena. I wonder if the new neo models will improve in this area? The Samsung 850 looks real nice but if I'm going to have a better HD picture with either the TH-50PZ800U or the newer Neo models then I'll go with the Panasonic Plasma instead and not worry so much about the gaming aspect.

Why not consider the 50PF11UK 50" monitor? It runs 24p content at 100 Hz with no flicker. You can buy it now for only a small premium over the 800 or 850 ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1
5-6 more mos., but who's counting.

Try about 9+ months.
__________________

I tend to believe D Nice, 2 reasons:

1) I think he has inside info.
2) Panny has a track record of new items intro'd at CES trickling out from spring through fall of that year, with the bigger upper end units usually being the last ones to arrive on the market.

Once spring hits, waiting is not much of a problem because there are plenty of other things to do outdoors and vacation travel. So if I pass on the 850 series, yes it will be mid to late next year before the newer option is available. I think!?!?!?! I can wait.......Maybe.

5-6 more mos., but who's counting.;):)

Try about 9+ months.
These responses are somewhat confusing to me.

I am patiently waiting for the 42PZ90U -- the entry-level, non-Neo PDP model.

I've been assuming that this model will be out in March or April 2009. It's basically November 2008 already. So, counting down the months from November... March and April are 4 and 5 months away.

(Didn't last year's 80U models come out in March?)

Please correct me if I'm wrong in assuming the small-sized, entry-level, non-Neo PDP 90U will be out at that time.

Why not consider the 50PF11UK 50" monitor? It runs 24p content at 100 Hz with no flicker. You can buy it now for only a small premium over the 800 or 850 ...

True. But for about the same price, I bought at 5020 today.
The PF11UK may have better color accuracy but since there it can be gray-scale calibrated I felt that was the best choice.

The 5020 is a TV and that also had value.

Next year, the 5020 will still be in the pack, but I get the feeling that the current Panasonic's are going to get blown away.

- Rich

These responses are somewhat confusing to me.

I am patiently waiting for the 42PZ90U -- the entry-level, non-Neo PDP model.

I've been assuming that this model will be out in March or April 2009. It's basically November 2008 already. So, counting down the months from November... March and April are 4 and 5 months away.

(Didn't last year's 80U models come out in March?)

Please correct me if I'm wrong in assuming the small-sized, entry-level, non-Neo PDP 90U will be out at that time.
Well, I recall the first Pannys arrive late April/early May, that is why I said 5-6 mos. They may do something different in '09, but I read an article that stated at least some of the Neo-PDPs would arrive in the Spring, but D-Nice disagrees with the article, and he may have more info. And you are looking for a non-Neo, so, again, I would think 5-6 mos., just based on past history.

Well, I recall the first Pannys arrive late April/early May, that is why I said 5-6 mos. They may do something different in '09, but I read an article that stated at least some of the Neo-PDPs would arrive in the Spring, but D-Nice disagrees with the article, and he may have more info. And you are looking for a non-Neo, so, again, I would think 5-6 mos., just based on past history.I have a LOT more info on the Neo-PDPs. However, I've been told to quote "keep fingers off the keyboard on AVS for now".

There is good new and bad. nudge me in late November and I should be able to spill some of the beans....soms.

I have a LOT more info on the Neo-PDPs. However, I've been told to quote "keep fingers off the keyboard on AVS for now".

There is good new and bad. nudge me in late November and I should be able to spill some of the beans....soms.
I recall reading that there will be 'regular' thinness neo-PDPs and 'thinner' ones.

However, IIRC, there will be non-Neo PDPs; is that correct? If so, are they going to be out around 1 May?

Personally, if I wait, I am going to wait for a neo-PDP, but not the thinner ones, because I don't want to pay a premium. However, I don't know about waiting nine mos., still having an LCD RPTV, we'll see.

D-Nice in your opinion, do you truly believe these new Neo PDP's, will not only be a big improvement in plasma technology but also be superior to LCD/LED Backlighting from the big three, i.e. Sony, Samsung and Sharp? Also will these sets also be marketed after the gaming crowd too, because this is one area where LCD usually trumps plasma? I game from time to time and was leaning a little bit to the new Sharp Aquos XS series but if these NEO PDP's are the real deal then I'll probably just wait it out.

D-Nice in your opinion, do you truly believe these new Neo PDP's, will not only be a big improvement in plasma technology but also be superior to LCD/LED Backlighting from the big three, i.e. Sony, Samsung and Sharp? Also will these sets also be marketed after the gaming crowd too, because this is one area where LCD usually trumps plasma? I game from time to time and was leaning a little bit to the new Sharp Aquos XS series but if these NEO PDP's are the real deal then I'll probably just wait it out.

Out of curiosity why do you feel LCD's trump Plasma in the gaming category? I would think with less motion blurring on Plasmas and input lag usually being worse on LCD's that a gamer would prefer Plasma. I can understand you being a bit cautious with games that have fixed HUD's on screen but with the newer Plasmas you would only get some minor IR that would fade in a reasonalbe time after watching some full screen regular content.

Out of curiosity why do you feel LCD's trump Plasma in the gaming category? I would think with less motion blurring on Plasmas and input lag usually being worse on LCD's that a gamer would prefer Plasma. I can understand you being a bit cautious with games that have fixed HUD's on screen but with the newer Plasmas you would only get some minor IR that would fade in a reasonalbe time after watching some full screen regular content.And on the best current LCDS (950 and XBR8) game mode turns off local dimming (at least on one of them. I believe the XBR8). Otherwise there is A LOT of input lag.

I remember D-Nice saying that all neoPDPs will arrive around Q3 next year. The thin ones on display right now are monitors only and the TVs will be a bit thicker, but still within 2". The regular panasonic models will be next spring and will be similar to this years models but slightly better. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I know the black levels will be really good on the 5 lumen plasmas, near infinite if I'm not mistaken. But how does that affect ANSI contrast? Because IMO the most impressive thing about the kuro right now is the ANSI.

Also, will IR be lessened on these sets? How about motion resolution? I know panasonic claims the neoPDP will have full 1080 motion resolution but I don't know if they're BS'ing us.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, I've always assumed that LCD was better for gaming than a plasma. I'm more worried about burn-in which I thought plasma was really prone to. Also where this tv would go in my living room I do have some sunlight that can come through, although I can just close the blinds. I'm hoping when Panasonic makes these sets not only are they good but they have good anti-reflective bezels.

I am not as familiar with the Panasonics but as far as the screen goes the current anti-reflective coating on this years Kuro lines is really good to my eyes. I can wave my arms like an air traffic controller from any angle in sunlight and not see any reflections on the screen. I find the Piano Gloss bezel to be the culprit of bad reflections more so than the screen. I think I saw somewhere though that this generation of Panasonics is going to have a brushed metal black or at least some of the models are. I hope more people follow suit with this. The bottom line is for gaming, Plasmas are better. I really wouldn't be so concerned with burn in on newer generation Plasmas. Minor image retention maybe, but nothing to be worried about.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, I've always assumed that LCD was better for gaming than a plasma. I'm more worried about burn-in which I thought plasma was really prone to. Also where this tv would go in my living room I do have some sunlight that can come through, although I can just close the blinds. I'm hoping when Panasonic makes these sets not only are they good but they have good anti-reflective bezels.

I have had a TH-42PWD5UY for 5 years, and I've been playing the PS2 on it since I got it. And I've had some long (very, very long) playing sessions. I have never had a single issue with burn in or even slight image retention. I imagine that the newest screens are much better than my 5th gen panny. And that glossy black glass that surrounds the screen has never been a distraction.

In my opinon plasmas are the best display tech in terms of picture quality. They are more expensive, and use more power - but LCDs just don't compare.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, I've always assumed that LCD was better for gaming than a plasma. I'm more worried about burn-in which I thought plasma was really prone to. Also where this tv would go in my living room I do have some sunlight that can come through, although I can just close the blinds. I'm hoping when Panasonic makes these sets not only are they good but they have good anti-reflective bezels.

120Hz LCDs= no burn in but worse motion resolution and more lag

PDPs=better motion resolution(except for Sammy A950) and less lag than LCDs but burn in is a possibility

In the end, PDPs are better for gaming overall, IMO:)

In the end, PDPs are better for gaming overall, IMO:)

Simple proof that Plasma is still better than LCD in terms of gaming:

Plug in an old side-scrolling game or a top-down rpg. I've been playing secret
of mana again on my Wii (virtual console) and it scrolls almost exactly like my
CRT. You know these games... static background that scrolls across the screen.
On an LCD, they get very fuzzy/blurry when scrolling across or up/down. Until
that's fixed, then there's no way it'll be considered better in my books.

But... isn't this a panasonic thread? I'll stop.

I read that most of the current plasmas have around 800 lines of motion resolution while the pioneers have around 900. Panasonic says the 5 lumen NeoPDPs will have full 1080 motion resolution. Hopefully they're right.

Hi,

I'm new in this forum (I'm from Europe). It is a great forum.

Will all NeoPDP sets be slim?

Thanks.

Will all NeoPDP sets slim?

Thanks.

Most indubitably.

Hi,

I'm new in this forum (I'm from Europe). It is a great forum.

Will all NeoPDP be sets slim?

Thanks.

Depends on what you mean by slim. The inch-thick displays that have been big crowd drawers at shows and the darlings of the press are just the high-end tunerless monitor line-up. These will probably not be available through your typical big-box retailer. The more pedestrian Neo-PDPs will be somewhat thicker, though still thinner than today's average plasma display which is 4 inches thick or so.

Hi,

I'm new in this forum (I'm from Europe). It is a great forum.

Will all NeoPDP sets be slim?

Thanks.

D-Nice had previously mentioned that there will be thin (1") and thick(er) versions (1.5-2") for NeoPDPs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14866757&postcount=142

I hope the thicker NeoPDPs are priced similarly to, say, current 800U or 850U Panny plasmas.

Any news you can spill yet, D-Nice. :)

I have a LOT more info on the Neo-PDPs. However, I've been told to quote "keep fingers off the keyboard on AVS for now".

There is good new and bad. nudge me in late November and I should be able to spill some of the beans....soms.


Is it late November yet???:)

How will the budget models next april compare to 8G Kuro blacks?

Hi,

I'm new in this forum (I'm from Europe). It is a great forum.

Will all NeoPDP sets be slim?

Thanks.

Welcome too the forum!

Too make this EZ 4U, being from Europe, the G12 Pana's readily available too you will be 2 Euros in depth.
Hope that helps!

Thank you for answers.

Look this video:

h__p://es.youtube.com/watch?v=zFJNhHiF6Z8

(I'm sorry for the link. I'm not allowed to post URLs still.)

I want it :D:D:D I hope the PZ95 (G12) will be like that.

chicote69,
Nice find. Looks similar to the Project Kuro's.

Chris

chicote69,
Nice find. Looks similar to the Project Kuro's.

Chris

Thanks.

There, in USA, have PZ8xx sets the Orbiter function? In Europe, no :mad:

Hello All,

Great Thread! I too am from Europe (London, UK) and would like to ask if there will be any 46" version of these NEO-PDP Panny plasmas? 50" is just too big but I can probably just (and I mean just!) getaway with a 46" version as long as Panasonic will not be employing those ridiculously wide bezels they seem to love so much!

Bazzy!

Is there any news on whether Neo-PDP tech will find its way into the 12UK commercial displays?

Will these sets eliminate phosphor trails? That's my biggest concern.

Will these sets eliminate phosphor trails? That's my biggest concern.No

Has anyone leaked pricing on these displays?

Chris

I wish someone would provide us with more info -- anything -- about the entry-level non-Neo PDPs... :o

I'm feeling too impatient for CES.

The 42px80 (11g entry set) was released in february, can we expect something similar for the 12g?
I want to buy a panasonic plasma but if the 12g entry set release isn't that far off I'd rather wait.

There will be NO 5 lumen tech (aka NeoPDP) in entry level Panasonics

There will be NO 5 lumen tech (aka NeoPDP) in entry level Panasonics

By entry-level do you mean 720P or also entry-level 1080P.

- Rich

By entry-level do you mean 720P or also entry-level 1080P.

- RichEntry level is whatever Panasonic labels as entry level. In there 2008 lineup that was the PX80 and PZ80 series.


No more questions regarding NeoPDPs, please.

just the fact that panasonic now has an "entry level" line of plasmas will tell you these neo pdps are going to be considered a luxury item. inmho, i think the pricing is going to get out of hand. like more than pioneer out of hand.

just the fact that panasonic now has an "entry level" line of plasmas will tell you these neo pdps are going to be considered a luxury item. inmho, i think the pricing is going to get out of hand. like more than pioneer out of hand.

Panasonic has entry an entry level lineup today. As noted above, it is the PX/PZ80 lineup.

I would guess that PZ9x will be entry and not have NeoPDP tech, while PZ9xx will be the NeoPDP's. The nomenclature could veer from that of course, but you get the idea. And the inch-thick tunerless monitors could likely become the follow-on to the recently-announced VX100 lineup.

Panasonic has entry an entry level lineup today. As noted above, it is the PX/PZ80 lineup.

I would guess that PZ9x will be entry and not have NeoPDP tech, while PZ9xx will be the NeoPDP's. The nomenclature could veer from that of course, but you get the idea. And the inch-thick tunerless monitors could likely become the follow-on to the recently-announced VX100 lineup.

There is also the option of starting a new line of sets for their Neo PDP displays, to separate them from the normal sets. It is up to Panasonic as to how they handle this, but they will do something to differentiate them from their standard plasma displays coming out in 09.

I would guess that PZ9x will be entry and not have NeoPDP tech, while PZ9xx will be the NeoPDP's.

As far as pricing goes, I hope that's true so that I can get a neoPDP set for the price of current 800U's or 850U's. They could call it a "Nuro." lol, j/k. :p

But, if they do release it with Kuro Elite kinda pricing, I'll be sad.

As far as pricing goes, I hope that's true so that I can get a neoPDP set for the price of current 800U's or 850U's. They could call it a "Nuro." lol, j/k. :p

But, if they do release it with Kuro Elite kinda pricing, I'll be sad.

the tech is right there with next years kuro. and it will be aesthecially more appealing. so either panny is going pio i their marketing or pio is taking a step down in price. somethings gotta give. and we havent even heard anything on video processing in these neo pdp's. and ive heard nothing but complaints on 11g pios to the 10g's.

As far as pricing goes, I hope that's true so that I can get a neoPDP set for the price of current 800U's or 850U's. They could call it a "Nuro." lol, j/k. :p

But, if they do release it with Kuro Elite kinda pricing, I'll be sad.

Just wait six months and they will drop about 1/3rd :D

- Rich

No more questions regarding NeoPDPs, please.But this is a 12g/NEOpdp thread, right.;)

Fair enough below.

But this is a 12g/NEOpdp thread, right.;)Let me clarify,

Please do not ask me any additional questions regarding NeoPDPs.

Okay, so if I'm not mistaken, this is all I learned so far about the '09 entry-level non-Neo PDPs:

It will be based off a combination of the technologies of both the current-gen 85U/800 and the not-yet-released VX100.

Sounds good to me! :D

Does that mean the non-NeoPDPs will have the same exact contrast ratio as the VX100 or less?

Does that mean the non-NeoPDPs will have the same exact contrast ratio as the VX100 or less?

The panel in the VX100 is not a NeoPDP panel so its not really comparable. NeoPDP panels should be even better.

The panel in the VX100 is not a NeoPDP panel so its not really comparable. NeoPDP panels should be even better.

I'm talking about the entry level panasonics next year, which aren't NeoPDPs.

Does that mean the non-NeoPDPs will have the same exact contrast ratio as the VX100 or less?
Good question, as I've been wondering about that myself.

The VX100 has a native contrast ratio of 60,000:1.

The current 85U/800 has a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1.

If you do an internet search on the VX100, you will find that those who have experienced it said its black level is pretty darn deep.

In 5 or so months you'll be able to get the 42" entry-level '09 non-Neo Panny, with black levels comparable to that of the 8G Kuro -- all for under $1,500. :eek:

I'm talking about the entry level panasonics next year, which aren't NeoPDPs.

Ah, sorry, somehow I read right past the "non" in your post. So, good question. We should get a good idea after they are shown at CES.

Panasonic is moving production for the 65" to the more efficient plasma plants. Looks like they want to increase production and lower costs. We should see better prices soon on the 65". :)

http://ph.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20081120/tbs-japan-panasonic-plasmapanels-9a48464.html

"Panasonic Corp will centralize production of plasma panels by the end of the year as part of an internal reorganization to increase cost competitiveness and cut production costs by up to 4 billion yen a year, The Nikkei financial daily reported.

The report said the company currently makes 65-inch plasma panels at a plant in Ibaraki, Osaka Prefecture, and produces all other sizes at two factories in Amagasaki, Hyogo Prefecture. It said the company would now produce all sizes at the Amagasaki facilities."

And let's see some bigger panels than 65" than an average person can afford please.

and who in their right mind thinks panasonic will pass the savings on to the consumer?

and who in their right mind thinks panasonic will pass the savings on to the consumer?

Panasonic has dropped their prices consistently year over year so I expect the trend to continue. Whether or not the move to consolidate manufacturing can be attributed to this year's drop on the 65" - I don't think anyone without inside knowledge can say for sure.

Of course, we know Panasonic will price the displays wherever they need to in order to meet whatever sales goals they have. Currently only Sharp has LCD panels greater than 60". However, if that were to change we could see a lot more competition against plasmas in that range. Panasonic may be forced to lower MSRP to remain competitive in such a market.

12G '09 models will NOT be priced at current '08 model prices.
(man, have those dropped fast, IMO)
The next gen will be priced simular too the MSRP of '08's when they were 1st announced.
(it was announced at this yrs CES)

The new factory is MORE efficient, not less.
(so Pana can be more completive in the marketplace w/improved product)

Pana knows what Pana does; they are well aware they are not Kuro & therefore will not charge as much $$$.
Pana has their niche w/Pioneer theirs & thanks too Samsung (LCD & plasma) for keeping Pana honest! ;-)

Glad too see this thread alive & well!
Come on CES!!!

CES antcipation is already building here and its still over a month away.

CES antcipation is already building here and its still over a month away.

Some of us have been excited for this coming CES for the last 6 months. (just like many gamers are already anticipating E3)

12G '09 models will NOT be priced at current '08 model prices.
(man, have those dropped fast, IMO)
The next gen will be priced simular too the MSRP of '08's when they were 1st announced.
(it was announced at this yrs CES)

The new factory is MORE efficient, not less.
(so Pana can be more completive in the marketplace w/improved product)

Pana knows what Pana does; they are well aware they are not Kuro & therefore will not charge as much $$$.
Pana has their niche w/Pioneer theirs & thanks too Samsung (LCD & plasma) for keeping Pana honest! ;-)

Glad too see this thread alive & well!
Come on CES!!!


are you speaking in terms of neo pdp or non neo pdp?

So are we looking at 12G non-Neo to be out in the Spring, ~1 May, as usual?

And 12G Neo will be out in the Fall, ~1 Oct., is that correct?

I have been looking to replace a 6 yr. old Sony LCD RPTV, and was going to hold out until next Spring or Fall, depending on what is shown at CES, but my family is encouraging me to replace the TV, already.

I wondering what the same money, for a 800u at the current amazing prices, will buy next year, and whether it will be a non-Neo or Neo. (I always wait a ~1 month after the TV's release for price drop.)

Do we have any info. on reduction % in weight on 12Gs?
I am sure the Neos will be much less. I wonder about the non-Neos, as well.

I have a LOT more info on the Neo-PDPs. However, I've been told to quote "keep fingers off the keyboard on AVS for now".

There is good new and bad. nudge me in late November and I should be able to spill some of the beans....soms.

This is your nudge:)

nudge, nudge:):)

Triple Nudge

quadruple nudge :)

Piobeer please spill the beans now, it is end of November :).

Panasonic has dropped their prices consistently year over year so I expect the trend to continue. Whether or not the move to consolidate manufacturing can be attributed to this year's drop on the 65" - I don't think anyone without inside knowledge can say for sure.

Of course, we know Panasonic will price the displays wherever they need to in order to meet whatever sales goals they have. Currently only Sharp has LCD panels greater than 60". However, if that were to change we could see a lot more competition against plasmas in that range. Panasonic may be forced to lower MSRP to remain competitive in such a market.

panny has dropped prices to sway the consumer away from the superior product(pioneer) in my honest opinion. when they drop this new tech and have some swagger to work with, dont be surprised if their heel is on the back of your neck along with pioneer.

Disclosing insider information in November/December is not a good idea as it can only suppress sales during the Christmas season ;)

- Rich

you realize not even a whole percent of the average consumer market reads this board? i'd say its about 0.00000000000001 percent. lol not to mention its insider info, not a press release.

you realize not even a whole percent of the average consumer market reads this board? i'd say its about 0.00000000000001 percent. lol not to mention its insider info, not a press release.

Yes. I do.

I also realize that people with insider contacts do not want to piss off their contacts. Do you realize that this may be why bumps are not working ;)

- Rich

Yes. I do.

I also realize that people with insider contacts do not want to piss off their contacts. Do you realize that this may be why bumps are not working ;)

- Rich

a little attitude there huh? i wouldnt consider it pissing off his contacts if hes already offered to give us a little info at about this time. not to mention hes done this kind of thing for awhile. people just realize they need to check back with D now. bumps were just posed a while ago. im sure he'll respond with something.;)

Hopefully we will know everything coming from the pio & panny camps in January 8-11.

Then we will decide to buy now or wait again.

I wish I knew. D-Nice is the one who we are waiting for...

a little attitude there huh? i wouldnt consider it pissing off his contacts if hes already offered to give us a little info at about this time. not to mention hes done this kind of thing for awhile. people just realize they need to check back with D now. bumps were just posed a while ago. im sure he'll respond with something.;)

Crickets :p

- Rich

The detective side of me says the first nudge came at 11:40AM...D-Nice has posted 4 times since then, yet nothing here.
My conclusion is he has answered by not...probably *can not* would be more accurate.
But then...whadoIno?

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong area, but there are a lot of knowledgeable people in this thread. In terms of PQ, Brightness, Black levels and processing, how do these two panels compare? I really don't want to wait another year for a Neo-PDP. Thanks for your help. I was ready to pull the trigger on the 11UK when I head about the VX100