Ok, folks...let your suggestions begin! Shall I go with a Pioneer KURO or Panasonic plasma display device? Why one over the other? :confused:

Ok, AVS-approved dealers: let your bidding begin!... ;)

-THTS

Ok, folks...let your suggestions begin! Shall I go with a Pioneer KURO or Panasonic plasma display device? Why one over the other? :confused:

Ok, AVS-approved dealers: let your bidding begin!... ;)

-THTS
Kuro...that was easy.

BTW...what size are you looking at?

There are many great choices and it depends on the client. Both are great brands.

Kuro...that was easy.

BTW...what size are you looking at?


Kuro, eh? He, he, he. :)

Looking between 50 and 60 inch sizes...

-THTS

It depends on your budget...

If you have the money to afford a Kuro I would certainly go with a Kuro. For the money, Panasonic will give you great performance. On dark movie scenes/deep black backgrounds the Kuro will perform very, very well. Considering that Kuro's do very well with shadow detail, depth, and overall deep black levels its not a surprise why the price difference among the other top tier manufacturers. For daily watching (news, espn, etc...) Panasonic will be just as good if not equal in all categories of; color accuracy, saturation, and contrast. In terms of overall processing the edge goes to Pioneer. To put into perspective, you should be able to obtain a 58PZ800 for the same price as the 5020FD. The 65PZ850 will be the same price/ballpark as the 151FD. Size will become a large influence in someone making a decision between a Kuro and Panny.

Chris

I would say go with Akai.... ;) we need more information to make a good recommendation on which will suit your needs best.

There are many great choices and it depends on the client. Both are great brands.

Am looking for an accurate video displaying alternative to large front projection systems, which I have, but for every day use, and I yet to find that in LCD displays, which are relatively cheaper than plasma counterparts.
Price is of certain consideration too, of course... ;)

-THTS

Frank,
What is your seating position?
What source material do you view mostly?

Chris

I would say go with Akai.... ;) we need more information to make a good recommendation on which will suit your needs best.

You mean Akai is still around? I mean the old Japanese audio components company. :D

See above post for what am looking for (by the way...need an accurate video displaying tool for movie transfers reviews too, if that makes a difference)...

-THTS

Frank,
What is your seating position?
What source material do you view mostly?

Chris

12-13 feet away usually, but is very flexible; can sit just about any distance I desire.

Watch HD transmissions (both from satellite--Dish Network via a 622 DVR receiver--and over the air), HD-DVD (Blu Ray to be added later on), D-VHS and D-Theater HD tapes, DVD (upconverted to 1080p via Oppo player), and the daily grind of lousy old SD material...with an occasional sprinkle of good old Laser discs, of which I still have tons laying around... ;)

-THTS

one word: kuro

Like Creemail said...it depends on your budget. If money isn't an issue then get the Pioneer...otherwise Panasonic is a good choice if you want to save money.

I too am in the market for a Plasma. I was strongly considering buying a Kuro but decided against it after reading that over 50% of respondents on the poll in this forum hear buzzing from their sets. I know many dealers have been very good with swapping out new sets to try to get a non-buzzing panel, but for the premium price for a Kuro I find the buzzing issue unacceptable. I'm not inclined to buy a product that may need to be returned, and I consider returning a large screen plasma a major pain! So, I plan on buying a Panasonic.

Three things...


Aesthetics -- does it matter to you and which do you like better. The new 8XX line uses the single pane of glass covering both panel and bezel. Beauty and function, i.e, easy to clean. Pio has no glass covering the panel at all...less glare, but not as easy to clean.
Viewing Environment -- The difference in blacks between the sets is about 0.008 FL, not a big number. You will have a hard time seeing such a difference, IMO, if you are watching it in a room with ambient lighting. Also if you have kids who can access the display with peanut butter covered fingers...please see point #1 above.
Purchase Location -- If you are sensitive to high frequency noise, i.e, buzz, then I would recommend only buying a Kuro from a local shop with a liberal return policy. Friend of mine returned two 6020s for that issue, even with a great forum sponsor willing to allow two returns there would have been shipping hassles.

No brainer, if you have the money Pioneer over Panasonic

Three things...


Aesthetics -- does it matter to you and which do you like better. The new 8XX line uses the single pane of glass covering both panel and bezel. Beauty and function, i.e, easy to clean. Pio has no glass covering the panel at all...less glare, but not as easy to clean.
Viewing Environment -- The difference in blacks between the sets is about 0.008 FL, not a big number. You will have a hard time seeing such a difference, IMO, if you are watching it in a room with ambient lighting. Also if you have kids who can access the display with peanut butter covered fingers...please see point #1 above.
Purchase Location -- If you are sensitive to high frequency noise, i.e, buzz, then I would recommend only buying a Kuro from a local shop with a liberal return policy. Friend of mine returned two 6020s for that issue, even with a great forum sponsor willing to allow two returns there would have been shipping hassles.


I disagree about the difference in blacks being small, the Kuro's keep their blacks much better in a bright room than this year's Pannys. They are MUCH darker in a dark room, this isn't just a shade were talking here but a huge difference. The Pannys always have a bit of a grayish look to their blacks, no matter what the room lighting is like

I wish you were here watching the Olympics on my 1150. If you were there would be no doubt about your decision.

Three things...


Aesthetics -- does it matter to you and which do you like better. The new 8XX line uses the single pane of glass covering both panel and bezel. Beauty and function, i.e, easy to clean. Pio has no glass covering the panel at all...less glare, but not as easy to clean.
Viewing Environment -- The difference in blacks between the sets is about 0.008 FL, not a big number. You will have a hard time seeing such a difference, IMO, if you are watching it in a room with ambient lighting. Also if you have kids who can access the display with peanut butter covered fingers...please see point #1 above.
Purchase Location -- If you are sensitive to high frequency noise, i.e, buzz, then I would recommend only buying a Kuro from a local shop with a liberal return policy. Friend of mine returned two 6020s for that issue, even with a great forum sponsor willing to allow two returns there would have been shipping hassles.


#1 and 3 are 2 of the big reasons I am now thinking the 58-800 Panasoniic may be better for me.

Plus the money saved.
DO I want a 151FD? Hell ya, but I'll be saving 2 tamales in the process and not have to be a paranoid that my kids will touch the screen (of the Kuro) or that my cleaning lady may spray windex on it. It is for my family room. If it were for a theatre room, I would go for the Pio tho....

I disagree about the difference in blacks being small, the Kuro's keep their blacks much better in a bright room than this year's Pannys. They are MUCH darker in a dark room, this isn't just a shade were talking here but a huge difference. The Pannys always have a bit of a grayish look to their blacks, no matter what the room lighting is like
*shrug*

With all due respect, terms like "much" and "huge" are subjective; objectively, the difference is 0.007 Foot Lamberts... Take a 8 one thousandth of a candela and place it a foot away. Take 1 one thousandth of a candela and place it a foot away. Now turn on a hall light and tell me which light source is the 8 and which is the 1.

Can you see that difference in idle luminescence? Maybe so. Can everyone? Nope. We're certainly approaching the point of diminishing returns with respect to the whole blacks issue. Of course the whole point will be moot when the prototype infinite black display from LG comes out later this year with one from Pio and Samsung to follow. Then again...I'll still be saying that infinite black is only 0.001 FL better than this years Pioneer so I hope it doesn't come at much of a premium :-)

*shrug*

With all due respect, terms like "much" and "huge" are subjective; objectively, the difference is 0.007 Foot Lamberts... Take a 8 one thousandth of a candela and place it a foot away. Take 1 one thousandth of a candela and place it a foot away. Now turn on a hall light and tell me which light source is the 8 and which is the 1.

Can you see that difference in idle luminescence? Maybe so. Can everyone? Nope. We're certainly approaching the point of diminishing returns with respect to the whole blacks issue. Of course the whole point will be moot when the prototype infinite black display from LG comes out later this year with one from Pio and Samsung to follow. Then again...I'll still be saying that infinite black is only 0.001 FL better than this years Pioneer so I hope it doesn't come at much of a premium :-)

I've owned both TVs (85U/5020) I only tell it like I see it, the Panasonic's blacks just never did it for me. I think I can say with confidence anyone could see the difference dark room or not. I know it might sound like simple bragging rights (.008 vs .001), but it's not, the difference is quite large at least to my eyes. Numbers shouldn't matter, you really need to see both to compare

I've owned both TVs (85U/5020) I only tell it like I see it, the Panasonic's blacks just never did it for me. I think I can say with confidence anyone could see the difference dark room or not. I know it might sound like simple bragging rights (.008 vs .001), but it's not, the difference is quite large at least to my eyes. Numbers shouldn't matter, you really need to see both to compare

You're right, it's a pretty significant difference. Google says an inch is 1.57828283 × 10-5 miles, but that doesn't mean that an inch is insignificant in certain contexts.

I wish you were here watching the Olympics on my 1150. If you were there would be no doubt about your decision.

Yeah, me too. Instead been watching the games on a Toshiba 52XF550 LCD display, which is less than two weeks old...and am pulling hairs out of my head! Nuff said... :mad:

-THTS

Are you the type with an unlimited budget and has to have the best money can buy? Spring for the Pioneer. If you value saving 2 - 3 grand on TV that you would have to be crazy to say is disappointing once you get it home, get the Panny.

We're certainly approaching the point of diminishing returns with respect to the whole blacks issue. Of course the whole point will be moot when the prototype infinite black display from LG comes out later this year with one from Pio and Samsung to follow. Then again...I'll still be saying that infinite black is only 0.001 FL better than this years Pioneer so I hope it doesn't come at much of a premium :-)

Funny how electronic manufacturers keep on "improving" products every few months to keep us salivating...and just as one is about to choose and purchase a given product the next "best" thing is just around the corner. Keeping up with the Jones is a very costly affair indeed!

Of course, then there is the issue of electronic components that seem to fail with alarming regularity or frequency since they aren't made to last as they used to, so thousands of Dollars go down the drain in a relatively short period time... :rolleyes:

-THTS

Are you the type with an unlimited budget and has to have the best money can buy? Spring for the Pioneer. If you value saving 2 - 3 grand on TV that you would have to be crazy to say is disappointing once you get it home, get the Panny.

No, I do not possess an unlimited budget and don't have to have the absolute best (?) that money can buy, but do highly value quality of manufacture, longevity, and accurate (relatively speaking) performance.

And to avoid the mistake I just made (which was against my better gut feeling not to do it) by purchasing the LCD display "sight unseen" (breaking one of my own rules, mind you :rolleyes: ) from an on-line vendor (but have 30 days return privilege and be fully credited), am going to take a peek at both the Pioneer and Panasonic plasma units that interests me locally (BB & CC most likely--but will not buy from either for personal reasons that are best left unsaid) and then make up my mind as to what is the best course to take: Pio Kuro or Panny...

-THTS

There really isn't much debate, if your budget allows it, get a Kuro. You will never be disappointed. The Panasonic's plasmas look fantastic too and are a close second, but its second non-the-less.

There really isn't much debate, if your budget allows it, get a Kuro. You will never be disappointed. The Panasonic's plasmas look fantastic too and are a close second, but its second non-the-less.

Gatcha! Thanks for the input... :)

-THTS

I own both a 9G Elite and a Panny 800U. The Elite is clearly a much better set in all respects but one: the Panny has a much better off-the-air digital TV tuner. The Elite also cost a whole lot more than the Panny. The Panny is a better set if you are looking at price:performance ratio as the deciding factor. If you are looking for best picture though, it's the Pioneer hands down.

No, I do not possess an unlimited budget and don't have to have the absolute best (?) that money can buy, but do highly value quality of manufacture, longevity, and accurate (relatively speaking) performance.

And to avoid the mistake I just made (which was against my better gut feeling not to do it) by purchasing the LCD display "sight unseen" (breaking one of my own rules, mind you :rolleyes: ) from an on-line vendor (but have 30 days return privilege and be fully credited), am going to take a peek at both the Pioneer and Panasonic plasma units that interests me locally (BB & CC most likely--but will not buy from either for personal reasons that are best left unsaid) and then make up my mind as to what is the best course to take: Pio Kuro or Panny...

-THTS

My 2 cents- I've owned three differen't Pannys and been very happy with all but one of them, that said I now own the 6020 and to me the difference in overall quality is very clear. Panny's are very good products, but I would have a hard time going back now that I own a Kuro. It's very much a thing of if you don't know what your missing you may not miss it, but when you do it's hard to settle for anything less. ;)

Kuro 8g or 9g over anything else currently out.
Not even hard choice in my opinion.
Unless this is going on a sun porch, then something else.

I own both a 9G Elite and a Panny 800U. The Elite is clearly a much better set in all respects but one: the Panny has a much better off-the-air digital TV tuner. The Elite also cost a whole lot more than the Panny. The Panny is a better set if you are looking at price:performance ratio as the deciding factor. If you are looking for best picture though, it's the Pioneer hands down.

You took the words right out of my mouth...

Well said...

Chris

I had one 50 inch Panasonic and now own 2 Pio Elites (50 and 60) and will never go back. Pios were one of the best a/v purchases I ever made.

Kuro 8g or 9g over anything else currently out.
Not even hard choice in my opinion.
Unless this is going on a sun porch, then something else.

Am still confused about the available models and what features they have...as does the price difference between them, so looks like more research is needed. Are the "G" models from the Elite series? :confused:

No, I don't watch TV in a sunlit porch; is done in a semi-dark environment (or as much as possible in daytime anyway) where the second home theater resides.
Of course, it could also be located in the large HT room, right behind the 12 foot wide scope screen (can get it out the way), where total control of lighting is the rule rather than the exception, and being that the plasmas aren't susceptible to strong magnetic fields (or are they? :confused: ) that are produced by ten SVS subwoofers won't be a serious issue as would have been with my recently deceased Sony 40-XBR-800 CRT set had I placed it there... ;)

-THTS

I had one 50 inch Panasonic and now own 2 Pio Elites (50 and 60) and will never go back. Pios were one of the best a/v purchases I ever made.

Would you consider donating the little one to our Home Theater Society?... :D

-THTS

Am still confused about the available models and what features they have...as does the price difference between them, so looks like more research is needed. Are the "G" models from the Elite series? :confused:


Th "G" label applies to all Pioneers (not just Elites) and indicates the generation of the panel technology. 8G is the 8th generation Pioneer - or last year's models of Kuros. 9G is the 9th generation, recently released for sale a little over a month ago. There are entire threads devoted to the differences in features between the 8G and 9G models. Bottomline: 9G better than 8G with a lowered MSRP.

Well, the 20 series and 8g elites are a little debatable. :)

Recently I was shopping for a replacment for my 52XBR4 and agonized over a Panasonic 50PZ800, Pioneer 5010 & Pionerr 5020. The 5010 was $300 more than the Panasonic and the 5020 was $300 more than the 5010. In the end I chose the 5010 for these reasons:

1) 5010's blacks weren't as deep as the 5020's but were deeper than the Panasonics.
2) Better anti-reflective screen on the Pioneer, I get a lot of sunlight during the day.
3) Lack of noise reduction/color temp features on the 5020 (I found this odd).
4) No flicker with 24p material as seen on the Panasonic (Biggest issue for me).
5) Narrowing it down between the 800U and 5010 the Pioneer seemed to have a more appealing image, my wallet was thinking Panasonic, my eyes were saying "KURO" (corny but true :)).

All of these displays are great and one would not feel like a second class citizen owning either of the three.

Bottomline: 9G better than 8G with a lowered MSRP.

Well, that's a most welcomed change!... :)

-THTS

Well, that's a most welcomed change!... :)

-THTS

not to those of us who bought a 8g as soon as they hit the streets... ;)

9G better than 8G with a lowered MSRP.

With the exception of deeper blacks this is debatable for me after spending several days with a 5010 and 5020. The 5010's color seemed slightly better to me and the lack of adjustments on the 5020 was mind boggling. The blacks were deep on the 5020 but so were the blacks on the 800U and 5010. Just my .02

Edit: I do agree the price is better :).

Are you the type with an unlimited budget and has to have the best money can buy? Spring for the Pioneer. If you value saving 2 - 3 grand on TV that you would have to be crazy to say is disappointing once you get it home, get the Panny.

Waiting for model closeout deals is a very wise decision. In the case of Pio I got my 1150 for less than the Panny 850u. :)

I own both a 9G Elite and a Panny 800U. The Elite is clearly a much better set in all respects but one: the Panny has a much better off-the-air digital TV tuner. The Elite also cost a whole lot more than the Panny. The Panny is a better set if you are looking at price:performance ratio as the deciding factor. If you are looking for best picture though, it's the Pioneer hands down.

Hi,

Does this mean that when watching normal SD TV channels, that the Panny is better than the Pioneer?

Bazzy!

Hi,

Does this mean that when watching normal SD TV channels, that the Panny is better than the Pioneer?

Bazzy!

Not in terms of picture quality.

Hi,

Does this mean that when watching normal SD TV channels, that the Panny is better than the Pioneer?

Bazzy!

No. All it means is that the Panasonic's ATSC tuner for picking up off-the-air digital broadcasts will pick up more channels than the one on the Pioneer with an equivalent antenna. The Pioneer will still look better. If you use cable, satellite or FiOS for your source, this tuner performance is totally irrelevant to you. If you want off-the-air digital channels, you will probably need a good rooftop antenna with the Pioneer and won't be able to get away with an indoor one.

not to those of us who bought a 8g as soon as they hit the streets... ;)

Oh, so many times...been there...done that; man, I feel your pain!... :D

-THTS

No. All it means is that the Panasonic's ATSC tuner for picking up off-the-air digital broadcasts will pick up more channels than the one on the Pioneer with an equivalent antenna. The Pioneer will still look better. If you use cable, satellite or FiOS for your source, this tuner performance is totally irrelevant to you. If you want off-the-air digital channels, you will probably need a good rooftop antenna with the Pioneer and won't be able to get away with an indoor one.

Then a Samsung SIR-T165 receiver and outdoor antenna/rotor combo should really rock connected to any of these sets...as should a Dish Network 622 DVR satellite receiver ("Turbo-boosted"ly :rolleyes: updated to output 1080p...but only on VOD basis--argh! :mad: ).

Btw, I used the Sammy T165 as the HD source to tape the '04 Olympics Games via a Mitsubishi 2000U S-VHS deck and the results look phenomenally good...outstanding...better than what am seeing currently...that with all of NBC's over compression of the digital signal, artifacts, HD cameras having obvious color difference settings, and even momentary blackouts (due to rain, parhaps) which I notice whether is via the 622 or OTA transmissions...

-THTS

Oh, so many times...been there...done that; man, I feel your pain!... :D

-THTS

the pain goes away while you are watching it... ;)

it's ok... i'll "suffer" with my kuro until someone gives me a significantly bigger plasma with the same pq... or until i can talk my wife into a 100" screen...

on topic, if a 8g kuro could be scored on closeout, that probably would be a heckuva buy...

if a 8g kuro could be scored on closeout, that probably would be a heckuva buy...

+1.

Vote: Kuro

I went from a Panasonic 42PZ77U to a Kuro 4280HD and the difference was night and day, I currently own a 5080HD and have no complaints. It's the first display ive owned that can hold its own against my Sony 34XBR960 CRT.

the pain goes away while you are watching it... ;)

it's ok... i'll "suffer" with my kuro until someone gives me a significantly bigger plasma with the same pq... or until i can talk my wife into a 100" screen...

on topic, if a 8g kuro could be scored on closeout, that probably would be a heckuva buy...


Gotta ask as an owner of an Elite PRO150fd....Hypothetically,.would you not miss the PQ of the Kuro when getting the 100" screen?? (if and when that occurs)

Vote: Kuro. I currently own a 5080HD and have no complaints. It's the first display ive owned that can hold its own against my Sony 34XBR960 CRT.

That's real good news 'cuz I used a Sony 40-XBR-800 CRT set as my small "reference" display device with which to judge (and review) video transfers.
Too bad it recently died on me after having it for a relatively short time (compared to a Japanese made Mitsubishi 35" boob tube purchase early in 1992...finally giving up the ghost in late '04); bought it February of '05... :mad:

-THTS

the pain goes away while you are watching it... ;)

it's ok... i'll "suffer" with my kuro until someone gives me a significantly bigger plasma with the same pq... or until i can talk my wife into a 100" screen...

As in many instances in life...bigger is better! :D

There is nothing compared to viewing movies on something like a 12 foot wide scope screen...even if the video image being displayed isn't the "best"; the immersion sensation from the action occurring in front of the viewer cannot be understated!

Of course, REAL film (70mm, 35, 16mm, and even S-8mm) surpasses anything video...and is an absolute thrill seeing it projected on that screen, ;) so if a KURO get me close to what real film looks like, well...am so there!...

_THTS

Kuro

No one will argue that the Pioneers are a better "value" than the Panasonics. But if you can afford it, and picture quality is your top priority, nothing beats the Pioneers. They are quite simply "The Best Flat-Panels Ever Made".

As in many instances in life...bigger is better! :D

There is nothing compared to viewing movies on something like a 12 foot wide scope screen...even if the video image being displayed isn't the "best"; the immersion sensation from the action occurring in front of the viewer cannot be understated!

Of course, REAL film (70mm, 35, 16mm, and even S-8mm) surpasses anything video...and is an absolute thrill seeing it projected on that screen, ;) so if a KURO get me close to what real film looks like, well...am so there!...

_THTS

I completely agree with bigger is better. in this case, the 103" panny perhaps spec-wise doesn't match the elites...but the image given (pretty darn good already) if i had $80,000 i would buy in a heart beat.

I remember just a few days ago while i was watching NBC where micheal phelps and his coach was being interviewed by the news anchorman (sorry, forgot the man's name) and he was commenting on the replay watching the giant plasma on the side of the couch I was utterly speechless, mezmerized...gosh i think it was love at first sight!. the panny (which I believe it to be) was just so amazing and it looked even wider because of its sheer size.

Give me that plasma, a pair of rockport arrakis and a mansion and I'd be set,
ah...how the super-rich live.

Gotta ask as an owner of an Elite PRO150fd....Hypothetically,.would you not miss the PQ of the Kuro when getting the 100" screen?? (if and when that occurs)

fair enough question... having lived with a 150fd for about a year now, i think i can answer it...

boils down to size vs. pq... and in this case, the tremendous size advantage of 100" would win... would pq be as "good" on the bigger screen? no, but you can get some pretty darn good projector/screen combinations these days for a somewhat reasonable price... as frank points out, the "immersiveness" of a massive screen is hard to ignore...

now, if the pq on the 100" was complete junk, it would be a different question...

I had a Marantz VP4001 PJ on a 106" screen.
I now own an Elite 1150 and it would make the same choice over and over.
The huge screen was 'neat', but the ease of use and PQ is just not there.

Now, if one can afford both. :)

pull down screen in front of the kuro... no reason to get rid of it... :)

Yup, way out of my budget world though as I one would need to spend a few thousand on the PJ set-up to get good PQ and that ease of use and removability.
Someday. :)

Hi,

Thank to all who answered my question!

Bazzy!

I completely agree with bigger is better. in this case, the 103" panny perhaps spec-wise doesn't match the elites...but the image given (pretty darn good already) if i had $80,000 i would buy in a heart beat.

I remember just a few days ago while i was watching NBC where micheal phelps and his coach was being interviewed by the news anchorman (sorry, forgot the man's name) and he was commenting on the replay watching the giant plasma on the side of the couch I was utterly speechless, mezmerized...gosh i think it was love at first sight!. the panny (which I believe it to be) was just so amazing and it looked even wider because of its sheer size.

Give me that plasma, a pair of rockport arrakis and a mansion and I'd be set,
ah...how the super-rich live.

I saw that 103" biggie at the WCES in Las Vegas last year--very impressive-- but $80?

Ha, by comparison my Philips/Norelco Todd-AO AII 35/70mm film projector (24 and 30 fps. speeds and 1000 thousand pounds of beautiful cast iron monster--$60K in 1960! :eek: but paid $1800 for it a few years back) and ISCO flat (spherical) and scope lenses will make ANY video display device look like child's play! Of course, can't just walk into a Fry's, BB, or CC and buy movies on film off the shelf.

I ain't rich by any stretch of the imagination...but do have a champagne taste, to my own chagrin. Too bad I only have a beer budget... :(

-THTS

I disagree about the difference in blacks being small, the Kuro's keep their blacks much better in a bright room than this year's Pannys. They are MUCH darker in a dark room, this isn't just a shade were talking here but a huge difference. The Pannys always have a bit of a grayish look to their blacks, no matter what the room lighting is like

oh how all these pro-kuro comments are so hard to hear when I am limited by a sub 50" tv size :(

oh how all these pro-kuro comments are so hard to hear when I am limited by a sub 50" tv size :(

Look around for the 4280 :).

I had a Marantz VP4001 PJ on a 106" screen.
I now own an Elite 1150 and it would make the same choice over and over.
The huge screen was 'neat', but the ease of use and PQ is just not there.

Now, if one can afford both. :)

Check Art Stoneburner's home theater here on AVS' FP Forum; he had two stacked Sony G90s (three 9"" tubes capable of fully displaying 1080p) sometime back, but believe he has swapped them for some sort of digital displays.

Anyway, for what I could tell from viewing the many pics he posted there the large image looked simply glorious...sensational...very film-like!
But am sure he must also have a KURO or two somewhere else in his home...perhaps the bathooms... :D

-THTS

oh how all these pro-kuro comments are so hard to hear when I am limited by a sub 50" tv size :(

Even though I think they're great the Panasonic's are nothing to sneeze at, like I said before it's too bad they don't make the Samsungs in your size because they are apparently very good. If I were in your shoes I'd get the 800U and not look back, forget the 85U though, even as someone who isn't a stickler for color accuracy the skin tones definitely were starting to get on my nerves. I know you don't want 720p but.. those 4280s are really nice TVs, I almost got a 5080 myself.

Panasonic 50PZ800U beats Pioneer 5020FD in the top HDTV reviewed by CNET. In my opinion, the premium you pay for Pioneer is too much. Panasonic has a better performance for value. The new generation's Panasonic plasma produces deep black that is not that far from the Kuro. The question is: how much are you willing to pay for not that big improvement? If money is no question, get the Kuro of course! Otherwise, the high-end Panasonic panels are great alternatives. :)

Panasonic 50PZ800U beats Pioneer 5020FD in the top HDTV reviewed by CNET. In my opinion, the premium you pay for Pioneer is too much. Panasonic has a better performance for value. The new generation's Panasonic plasma produces deep black that is not that far from the Kuro. The question is: how much are you willing to pay for not that big improvement? If money is no question, get the Kuro of course! Otherwise, the high-end Panasonic panels are great alternatives. :)

The pz800U wins in one area.. price. It will never produce as pleasing a picture as a 5020 no matter what Cnet says

Panasonic 50PZ800U beats Pioneer 5020FD in the top HDTV reviewed by CNET. In my opinion, the premium you pay for Pioneer is too much. Panasonic has a better performance for value. The new generation's Panasonic plasma produces deep black that is not that far from the Kuro. The question is: how much are you willing to pay for not that big improvement? If money is no question, get the Kuro of course! Otherwise, the high-end Panasonic panels are great alternatives. :)

From CNET's review:

"For our dose of critical viewing we set the PDP-5020FD up next to its predecessor, the Pioneer PDP-5080HD; its main competition among high-end plasmas, the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U plasma (we chose that model instead of the flagship TH-50PZ850U since the 800U performed better in our tests); and the most-impressive LCD we've reviewed this year, Samsung's LN52A650. We chose an old favorite reference Blu-ray Disc, I Am Legend, played via an old favorite Blu-ray player, the Sony PlayStation 3.

Black level: The superiority of the 5020FD's depth of black was visible everywhere, but was most obvious in dark scenes, such as when Will Smith runs over the zombies on the end of the pier. The black areas like the silhouette of his decoy, the shadows under the bridge, and the paint of his SUV appeared darker than any on the other sets in the room. Last year's Pioneer took second place in the darkness stakes, followed by the Panasonic plasma and finally the Samsung LCD. Of course, the Samsung and especially the Panasonic are capable of producing black levels deep enough to satisfy most contrast-hungry videophiles, and the Pioneer's extra depth was most obvious in a side-by-side comparison. Still, when the PDP-5020FD's black frame appeared just a couple hairs lighter than the black screen itself, we found our eyes gravitating toward its picture in preference to the others."

+1

I own both and believe me my 151 is far better than the Panny.

The pz800U wins in one area.. price. It will never produce as pleasing a picture as a 5020 no matter what Cnet says

I have to agree with this, there is no question however that the Panasonic is a huge bang for your buck. Even the 5010 outperforms the 800U in terms of overall PQ.

I own both and believe me my 151 is far better than the Panny.

Man, is too bad D-Nice hasn't tested and reviewed this set...like he did with the 6020 and Pro-111FD...as it would immensely help me in making my final purchasing decision; I've come to really trust his technical, savvy knowledge of plasma video displays after reading his most comprehensive reviews of those Pioneer TV sets.

Today finally got around checking the Elite KURO 50" and 60" models at my local Best Buy's Magnolia Center (what a joke them BB folks are: dense, rigid, immovable, lacking sufficient technical knowledge--and condencending to boot!--allowing the customer to visually sample demos of "Cars" and a hip-hop concert (I hate hip-hop noise--it ain't music...argh!) off Blu Ray discs only; nothing else is allowed to be shown by their super-brainy managers! :rolleyes:
Any how, had the chance to see both Pioneer Elite and Panasonic plasma displays in action...and indeed blacks appear deeper and blacker as produced by the Pio models, but the Pannys do produce very seductive color images too. Didn't spent much time there, though, so my accompanying video freak friend and I went to a local high-end store with whom both of us have done business before.

At Inland Video & Sound I found a more propitious and friendlier environment in which to visually sample all of the displays they carry; and since they have both Pio Elite models on display, I had ample opportunity of seeing them work with a wider variety of video sources, including over the air HD transmissions.
Am most impressed by the performance of the Elite models, and really like to have the 60" set, but...

There is no doubt that owning any of them comes at a high cost; however, enjoyment of the picture quality produced by these displays (and I hope they do as well with B&W images, something I forgot to request--is the acid test for all video display devices as far as I am concerned, for if they fail with this test then there are issues that need to be addressed; the problem needs to be remedied) will help assuage and mitigate the pain pocketbooks suffer when called upon forking out such a hefty outlay of cash for something that basically is nothing more than a high bred television...

-THTS

From CNET's review:

"For our dose of critical viewing we set the PDP-5020FD up next to its predecessor, the Pioneer PDP-5080HD; its main competition among high-end plasmas, the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U plasma (we chose that model instead of the flagship TH-50PZ850U since the 800U performed better in our tests); and the most-impressive LCD we've reviewed this year, Samsung's LN52A650. We chose an old favorite reference Blu-ray Disc, I Am Legend, played via an old favorite Blu-ray player, the Sony PlayStation 3.

Black level: The superiority of the 5020FD's depth of black was visible everywhere, but was most obvious in dark scenes, such as when Will Smith runs over the zombies on the end of the pier. The black areas like the silhouette of his decoy, the shadows under the bridge, and the paint of his SUV appeared darker than any on the other sets in the room. Last year's Pioneer took second place in the darkness stakes, followed by the Panasonic plasma and finally the Samsung LCD. Of course, the Samsung and especially the Panasonic are capable of producing black levels deep enough to satisfy most contrast-hungry videophiles, and the Pioneer's extra depth was most obvious in a side-by-side comparison. Still, when the PDP-5020FD's black frame appeared just a couple hairs lighter than the black screen itself, we found our eyes gravitating toward its picture in preference to the others."

as a slight counter point, from cnets Panasonic PZ850 review

Black level: The Panasonic TH-50PZ850U exhibited the one of the deepest shades of black we've ever witnessed on any display. The letterbox bars above and below the film, along with shadows and blackness in dark scenes, such as when Vincent and Jerome go out in the middle of the night to watch the rockets lift off, appeared inky and true. Compared with the other displays in the room, only the Pioneer mustered a deeper shade of black, and just barely;

while this was in reference to the 8g kuro, the 9g blacks again were not said to be a huge improvement visually (only way the improvement is huge is if you do a numerical caluclation but the margins have become so small it's not very accurate).

while this was in reference to the 8g kuro, the 9g blacks again were not said to be a huge improvement visually (only way the improvement is huge is if you do a numerical caluclation but the margins have become so small it's not very accurate).
Ask anyone who went to Robert's shoot-out last month about visual improvements. The difference was obvious and "the numbers" were there only as backup :)

So what is in store for us when the 10G Kuros come out...what should we expect from the next generation of Pio plasma displays?... :confused:

-THTS