I thought I would start a thread about useful products that I might want to consider putting in a new Home Theater and/or in a new house for whole house integration. I'm looking for devices with utilitarian purpose, not audiophile fantasticism!

Here are a couple of products I have already added to my own list*:

Crestron or AMX (both HT and whole house integration)
Movie (Blu-Ray) and music server, possibly Axonix (both HT and whole house integration)
D-Box Seats
Dolby Lake Processor
Crestron D3 Pro Lighting




*To be modified as possible additions to my setup become apparent

These items are considerations, not definite choices already made.

I thought I would start a thread about useful products that I might want to consider putting in a new Home Theater and/or in a new house for whole house integration. I'm looking for devices with utilitarian purpose, not audiophile fantasticism!

Here are a couple of products I have already added to my own list*:

Crestron (both HT and whole house integration)
Movie (Blu-Ray) and music server, possibly Axonix (both HT and whole house integration)




*to be modified as possible additions to my setup become apparent

Que
Don't forget those cable elevators. ;)

Que
Don't forget those cable elevators. ;)

LOL... :p

Crestron better get on the Industrial design ball. although Crestron and AMX are essentially the same thing AMX new touchscreens are beautiful, the Crestrons are toe breaking bricks by comparison.

That Crestron multiroom is alright but the mistique of an all crestron home I find hoaquy.Spell correction.

The axonix now works very well, although if you have an extensive library a few titles not shot on film MAY stutter. Eagles concert for example.

This is not too well known in the US, but in terms of lighting control...Clipsal is amazing...i have it in my house in Argentina...basically with their C-BUS solution you can program any light switch in the house to do control pretty much anything you want (i.e., manage scenes that include every single light in the house)...you can program specific guidelines to save energy (i.e., every hour all the lights are turned off, expect from 6PM and 12AM..., every 15m every light on a closet gets shut off)...you can control smoke detectors...alarms, etc...

It's pretty neat....

http://www.clipsal.com.au/consumer/downloads/living_electrical#download

check the brochure...

I'm going to recommend something along the lines of sonos. Maybe I just haven't seen it yet but I have not seen an amx/crestron/brandhere interface that is as simple/quick/useful as sonos. I also like the lack of wall acne

The problem with sonos is that it doesn't do anything else but IMO it does music distribution perfectly.

Que
Don't forget those cable elevators. ;)

Well I was a little surprised to see what looked like above average cables in his pictures. Maybe Que will get some elevators just to 'organize' them. :p

On a serious note, Que it looks like you've been doing some major equipment upgrading!

Crestron better get on the Industrial design ball. although Crestron and AMX are essentially the same thing AMX new touchscreens are beautiful, the Crestrons are toe breaking bricks by comparison.

That Crestron multiroom is alright but the mistique of an all crestron home I find hoaquy.Spell correction.

The axonix now works very well, although if you have an extensive library a few titles not shot on film MAY stutter. Eagles concert for example.

I think one area where people don't get the best from Crestron AMX is by not having an independent programmer do their system. Some installers I've seen are OK, but the best hire in a dedicated guy.

This is guaranteed to take your system to the next level. Just make sure, if you're working to budget, that you set aside a few $k to get it done right.

Crestron or AMX it's the same thing function wise. But compare these designs:

http://www.crestron.com/images/features/applications-home/products/tpmc-8x.jpg

To this:

http://www.amxjp.net/amxpro/amx-sales/image/5200gb.png

http://www.amxjp.net/amxpro/amx-sales/image/5200gw.jpg

Why is Crestron design so un-classy? To me it's unacceptable with the kind of profits that company makes they been forcing these toe breaking bricks down peoples throats for years.

The AMX does look pretty cool. Is their pricing comparable as well?

1. Rockport Technologies - Arrakis

http://www.electronichouse.com/images/uploads/rockport_arrakis_300.jpg



2. Dolby Lake Processor

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2007/10/medium_1535191659_e99724e249_o.jpg

The AMX does look pretty cool. Is their pricing comparable as well? Exactly so.

The only product in home theater that will take a lousy movie like x-men3, Rambo, Spiderman 3 and many other mindless action flicks and convert them into the most memorable movie watching experience of a lifetime.

The D-box Loveseat:

http://www.miamibadc.com/Images/QuestLoveseat.jpg

any system without whole house control/whole house integration is severely missing the boat. it ensures that the investment is enjoyed all the time. set the system to wake you up by ramping the lights in your room while raising the shades and slowly ramping the volume on the "wakeup" playlist.

Or whatever you want.

As far as AMX vs. Crestron... any argument of one over the other will flip in 6 months. from an aesthetic pov they introduce new models all the time. and Crestron has plenty of models that are designed to mount in a wall so you can make it look like anything you want.

As usual, peter is new to the world of control so his knowledge of what is available and how they can be used is severely limited.

From a technology standpoint, they are similar but as already mentioned, flip flop every few months with adding new tech. and in almost every case, the new tech they add is more of an "out of the box" new tech. as an example, AMX just added RFID capability, so you could have a badge/key fob that sets the system however you want it based upon your presence. Now you could always do this, but you needed third party integration, now it is an add on to a system.

And to add a little bit to what CM said... the most important part of adding whole house control is vision. knowing what you want to control, and having help in realizing that vision. Most people are aware that you could cue the front door opening to heat the hot tub, but you can go so many layers beyond that, that it is vital to have ideas, and a good programmer to help them materialize.

One place to be very careful is in UI design. most suck. the reason for this is that most AV people (including AMX and Crestron) are "gear" people. so panels end up being gear oriented. People are task oriented, so the way we think of interfacing with them is toatlly different than panels end up being designed. so make sure that you have lots of input.

He's back... :D

If I got the "D-Box Loveseat" will all my dates have an orgasm while watching movies?

I thought I would start a thread about useful products that I might want to consider putting in a new Home Theater and/or in a new house for whole house integration. I'm looking for devices with utilitarian purpose, not audiophile fantasticism!

Here are a couple of products I have already added to my own list*:

Crestron (both HT and whole house integration)
Movie (Blu-Ray) and music server, possibly Axonix (both HT and whole house integration)




*to be modified as possible additions to my setup become apparent
I don't have a problem with your list. But I think the Hindu proverb in your quote is only partially correct. It should be(paraphrasing because the original is in Sanskrit): "To try to extinguish desires by trying to fulfill them is like trying to quench a fire by pouring ghee(butterfat) over it."
Quite appropriate for this forum.

I don't have a problem with your list. But I think the Hindu proverb in your quote is only partially correct. It should be(paraphrasing because the original is in Sanskrit): "To try to extinguish desires by trying to fulfill them is like trying to quench a fire by pouring ghee(butterfat) over it."
Quite appropriate for this forum.

It isn't my quote. I took it from someone else's translation...

In either case, the inherent meaning is not lost. At least not to me...

If I got the "D-Box Loveseat" will all my dates have an orgasm while watching movies?
Mike,

Lol no but it will certainly appear to someone in the next room over that you are a "monster" with the ladies.I recently sat some twenty something Puerto Rican sisters on one of these fired up Bullitt and boy, I heard screaming I had not heard since the mid nineties. :D :D

Next best thing...

Mike,

Lol no but it will certainly appear to someone in the next room over that you are a "monster" with the ladies.I recently sat some twenty something Puerto Rican sisters on one of these fired up Bullitt and boy, I heard screaming I had not heard since the mid nineties. :D :D

Next best thing...


Was that before or after that you fired them up???:D

...I heard screaming I had not heard since the mid nineties.

Back when you used to chop them up into little pieces and serve them to the homeless at the food kitchen? :D

I think one area where people don't get the best from Crestron AMX is by not having an independent programmer do their system. Some installers I've seen are OK, but the best hire in a dedicated guy.

This is guaranteed to take your system to the next level. Just make sure, if you're working to budget, that you set aside a few $k to get it done right.
Define "independent programmer". Define "dedicated guy". Define "installer".

You are making distinctions which need not exist. Crestron offers 3 levels of programming certification. The highest level is available to both programmers that work for Crestron resellers ("dealers") and programmers that are not resellers.

1. Programmers who are not resellers who take and pass the highest test level are able to become a CAIP, which which stands for Crestron Authorized Independent Programmer. A CAIP is Not allowed to resell product. Because they are not allowed to resell product, they able to do contract work for dealers. In other words, a dealer would not want to hire them if they could also sell product and compete against them.

The CAIP program was set up by Crestron quite simply as a very intelligent and legitimate strategic move, because many dealers cannot afford to employ a full time programmer. So CAIP's are a resource for Crestron dealers to use, knowing the CAIP will not compete against them.

2. Since programmers that work for a reseller that pass the highest level of certification are able to resell Crestron, they cannot become/claim CAIP status.

3. CAIP's have even become dealers, and therefore had to relinquish their CAIP status, and visa versa with dealers who decided to become CAIP's.

Also:
CAIP's usually don't do installation work, but they are not banned from doing so, and some do. Likewise, programmers that also work for a reseller may or may not do installation work.

Finally, it's pretty funny reading you say that "the best hire in a dedicated guy". Funny because dealers who do programming themselves usually try that scare tactic in reverse, saying "we don't sub out our programming, we do it all in house".

In reality, outstanding results (or bad for that matter) can be obtained either way, it comes down to the people.

Crestron better get on the Industrial design ball. although Crestron and AMX are essentially the same thing AMX new touchscreens are beautiful, the Crestrons are toe breaking bricks by comparison.

That Crestron multiroom is alright but the mistique of an all crestron home I find hoaquy.
Peter,

If you ever provide a balanced perspective on anything, I may have a heart attack ;). Also, the photos you are showing aren't even comparing similar touchscreens.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/remotecentral/SK4qBWGM7iI/AAAAAAAAAK8/wzZRLF7KCok/s800/TPS-6X_Frt_Headon_Comm_GUI.jpg

Peter,

If you ever provide a balanced perspective on anything, I may have a heart attack ;). Also, the photos you are showing aren't even comparing similar touchscreens.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/remotecentral/SK4qBWGM7iI/AAAAAAAAAK8/wzZRLF7KCok/s800/TPS-6X_Frt_Headon_Comm_GUI.jpg

OUCH!!!@@@ And here I thought Peter knew everything!

QQQ: Thank you for speaking my mind. ;)

Steve, you are kidding...... right??

QQQ: Thank you for speaking my mind. ;)

Steve, you are kidding...... right??

When I bought and setup my C3X 1080, my main sources of info and opinion were - my dealer, Mark Haflich; QQQ; and I also talked with Jason and Alan Gouger of AVS. And of course Scott Horton (GetGray) as Scott first tried out my projector for me, determined the zoom had a linear light loss, and thanks to Scott we decided on a T2 lens throw ratio of 2.03 instead of closer to the far end of the zoom. What does that tell you? Did I call Max?

I am not kidding, just this past Hurricane week I had to contend with the pain as a reminder...

http://www.audiovenue.co.uk/itemimages/pictures/Dubai-crestron.jpg

Define "independent programmer". Define "dedicated guy". Define "installer".

I think you did a fairly good job of that. Thanks

Finally, it's pretty funny reading you say that "the best hire in a dedicated guy". Funny because dealers who do programming themselves usually try that scare tactic in reverse, saying "we don't sub out our programming, we do it all in house".

The fact that they do that does not alter my position. You would hardly expect dealers who do their own programming to say otherwise. Prior to my current, and last, whole house install I sought advice. With few exceptions, all the advice I was given led me to independent programmers. This included manufacturers, installers and Crestron personnel past and present. If your experience is different thats totally valid too. I have utterly no vested interest either way.

In reality, outstanding results (or bad for that matter) can be obtained either way, it comes down to the people.

I agree.

Having read your post, would I be wide of the mark taking a guess that you are a Crestron dealer or installer who does their own programming?

This is not too well known in the US, but in terms of lighting control...Clipsal is amazing...i have it in my house in Argentina...basically with their C-BUS solution you can program any light switch in the house to do control pretty much anything you want (i.e., manage scenes that include every single light in the house)...you can program specific guidelines to save energy (i.e., every hour all the lights are turned off, expect from 6PM and 12AM..., every 15m every light on a closet gets shut off)...you can control smoke detectors...alarms, etc...

It's pretty neat....

http://www.clipsal.com.au/consumer/downloads/living_electrical#download

check the brochure...

Aren't Crestron and AMX capable of the same things though? Or, do I need to integrate something like the Clipsal (or a Lutron device) to get the extra features? If Crestron and AMX don't do these things, I would be interested in other options like it for comparison.

I'm interested in doing whole house integration and/or a smart house level of design, as long as it doesn't get costly enough to require spending less on the theater design.

Lutron Homeworks and Lightouch.

The crestron has a system some Lutron employees call a copy cat, yet the Lutron system is way easier to program whereas you need Crestron programming skills to program the Crestron.

It is interesting to know that a client of mine had a whole house amx system running his penthouse, put the crestron in, sold the condo and now for his house he is putting 37 amx panels in with Lutron Homeworks running the lights pumps, fountains curtains and shades.

Look for a new slew of sexy looking AMX panels at CEDIA.

This from our own modest think tank...

The reverse-trapagon refractive "Vox Divina (Voice Of God)" surround soffet with Halo of light float.

The antithesis of a dry THX-like theater,with superb decay time
and delivering the surround mix in a well defined kill zone.

http://www.miamibadc.com/Images/82108-056.jpg

Lutron Homeworks and Lightouch.

The crestron has a system some Lutron employees call a copy cat, yet the Lutron system is way easier to program whereas you need Crestron programming skills to program the Crestron.
Peter,

No matter now little you know about something, you never hesitate to have a strong opinion about it and spout misinformation.

Crestron lighting does not require "Crestron programming skills" in terms of your no doubt limited understanding of what that means. Crestron has had a lighting program named D3 Pro that eliminated the need for SIMPL* programming and has existed for over 5 years since, guess when, their lighting system first came out. D3 Pro is the equivalent of Lutron Illumination (that's the program Lutron uses, I'm sure you've used it many times ;)).

Crestron lighting can also be programmed or "tweaked" in SIMPL which is what someone with "Crestron programming skills" are going to want to do, because it's a much more powerful programming environment than either Illumination or D3 Pro.

* SIMPL is the name for Crestron's object oriented programming environment.

The fact that they do that does not alter my position. You would hardly expect dealers who do their own programming to say otherwise.
Agreed, nor would I expect those who use independent programmers to say otherwise, nor those who promote them.
Having read your post, would I be wide of the mark taking a guess that you are a Crestron dealer or installer who does their own programming?
You could say that you are half right or half wrong depending on whether you are a cup half empty or cup half full type of guy, but since we are debating I'll say that you are half wrong :) :D.

All GUI design and engineering is done internally. For programming, some projects internally and some using a couple of the finest independent programmers in the country. It depends on the project, our work load, where in the country the project is located etc. Also, as I'm sure you know, programming is only one of many extremely important elements of a successful integration project.

to carry on from Q, peter (and i i mean this with no animosity) your knowledge of control systems is obviously EXTREMELY limited. and just about every post you make about them cements this even more.

using crestron/amx dimmers over utron is usually just a case of prefreence, or the fact that their own products INTEGRATE with the whole system a little more easily. And you can buy them all from one source.

Control system programming has two big concerns, UI and the Programming. finding a person/company who can do both well is hard. and unfortunatley for a client, in many cases they do not find out that they did not have the best until somebody else needs to make a change.

You could say that you are half right or half wrong depending on whether you are a cup half empty or cup half full type of guy, but since we are debating I'll say that you are half wrong :) :D.

Since we are debating, I'll say...........I had a feeling I was right on the money.:) :D.

The name Crestron gets thrown around 10 times more than AMX, and that In my opinion is wrong because at the end of the day they perform very similar tasks, and in my opinion the AMX is at another level of industrial design, Crestron stuff looks like it belongs in a boardroom next to some Middle Atlantic Rack. Jersey (no matter what exit:D) is not a Mecca of high design.

There are companies that have developed front end touchscreen programs that permit the homeowner to check off the operation of their AMX system.

I think that is a great thing to have, for example you could select any subsystem on any room or zone say a bedroom and just check off the event, the trigger, the devices and the macros involved and fine tune the timing (without a programmers involvement).

TO ME THAT IS THE WAY TO GO, not giving some programmer total control of the home. I don't need to be a programming expert to recognize that and bring the right people to the team.

There are companies that have developed front end touchscreen programs that permit the homeowner to check off the operation of their AMX system.

I think that is a great thing to have, for example you could select any subsystem on any room or zone say a bedroom and just check off the event, the trigger, the devices and the macros involved and fine tune the timing (without a programmers involvement).

TO ME THAT IS THE WAY TO GO, not giving some programmer total control of the home. .
You are just repeating something you have been told here without having a clue what your are talking about. What front end are you referring to, specifically?
I don't need to be a programming expert to recognize that and bring the right people to the team
No, but you DO need to have a clue, or you have no way of discerning bullsh*t from fact.

You are just repeating something you have been told here without having a clue what your are talking about. What front end are you referring to, specifically?



Remember a company in Chicago named ISR (Integrated Systems by Rich)? they pioneered a lot of home automation stuff, a posse from that company went their own way and developed such a front end system for the AMX. They market it as an estate management system controlling ada, lutron, and some other subsystems. The King Of Miami contracted with them to do the home automation and the multi-room lighting music security HVAC etc in the house. You know stuff where the owner is not absolutely convinced that I am the very best in the business. We interface frequently and I was impressed enough to recommend them on a future megaproject.

Yes, I am familiar with it, it's called Tronarch. It's an additional software layer that runs on a server. That front end was developed by ISR many years ago, so I'm not sure why you are saying that a "posse that left" developed it.

Because it is not tronarch, it is from a group that worked on the development of tronarch and went their own way.

And check this out from JobVent:

Sugar Grove, IL 01/25/2008: Stick a fork in ISR, I believe this nightmare and money pit is finally done. It is funny how those with blinders on were able to find some sort of positive in this mess. They must have been one of the “yes men” a previous poster was referring to.

Watch for the collapse of the "farm" in a future episode. It is just a matter of time before daddy is no longer around to supervise. Daddy would be wise to deed the estate and links to the Forest Preserve district.

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Sugar Grove, IL 10/18/2007: I too used to work for this company. I am still amazed that it still is a float. I mean the owner is non-existent, no "new" jobs since moving to SG 2 years ago, no investment in product (or whatever you call tronarch). Yeah, the pay was nice, but the owner had and most likley still does have zero respect for any of his employees or clients. He is way in over his head and will not trust his management. Over 75 peoplehave quit or been fired by this man in the last 5 years. He does not care about anyone left at ISR. It is a shame because there were/are some great, knowledgable people working there. Too bad he will not stand up and just close the doors. This company IS DONE!!!!! I saw it 3 years ago and I left. People still there say it is worse today.

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Sugar Grove, IL 08/20/2007: I believe all the negatives were true as the ISR web site no longer exists. Nothing left but memories. So sad and so many wrongs to right.

Everyone tried to tell you, but you had too much pride to pay attention.

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Naperville, IL 06/07/2007: I worked here for a while but it was lame. I guess the company couldn’t sell any jobs so they let most of the people go. Then most of the other employees left before the ship went down. Funny because the owner was always saying how great of a salesman he was and that he would land 99% of all the clients he had out to the ‘farm’.

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Sugar Grove, Il 06/07/2007: Many have worked here and many have left. I doubt this company will ever hire any more employees (unless it is to axe the few remaining people). About 50% of all the reviews on this board about ISR have been removed (which all had a negative score). But hey who cares this company is done!

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Sugar Grove, IL 12/22/2006: Hey, at least you got a bonus! I can't recall ever getting anything in the entire 5 years I worked for ISR. I am actually quite surprised to hear that the company still has clients. Tronarch is such a dinosaur of a product that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and all the client gets is a giant headache. A person would be better served spending a few hundred to a few thousand dollars having someone custom tailor an open source product such as Pluto for their home, or if they possess any computer skills at all, they can program it themselves for free, paying just for the hardware. As for the big research facility, this has been a long running fantasy. The first clue that this was never, ever going to happen was when ISR moved into the little shack of an office they now occupy. There was some real talent at ISR at one time, unfortunately they were belittled, taken advantage of and otherwise used and abused and have left to pursue more promising opportunities. Others were cast aside by management because they didn't devote every waking second of their lives to a thankless job with no real future.

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Bar, Next Door 03/06/2006: Currently, they live in a bar. but when I was there it was at a decent location, gues the rent was too much. I got no respect from most people. I had no growth potential at the company cause I didn't go 'yeah yeah yeah' and stick my head up the managers ass. Don't get me started on co-worker competence.

However, the IT dept here was a joke too! One jerkwad who used to work at M$ but now is just a big loser at ISR.

Whatever, they suck.

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SG, IL 03/06/2006: This is without doubt the worst place I have ever worked. The people on this site who are saying good things are management. They are all covering their asses. Do not work here.

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SG, IL (In a bar) 02/26/2006: Umm, I think you guys have the wrong 'ISR' this is the company that makes the TRONACHE home automation software.

Currently, they live in a bar. but when I was there it was at a decent location, gues the rent was too much. I got no respect from most people. I had no growth potential at the company cause I didn't go 'yeah yeah yeah' and stick my head up the managers ass. Don't get me started on co-worker competence.

However, the IT dept here was a joke too! One jerkwad who used to work at M$ but now is just a big loser at ISR.



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Sugar Grove, IL 02/03/2006: Definitely need to improve if it wants to retain personal ... I know that good things can happen

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http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee14/DocWB/1-615-83386-l-vYMH6GaU9EHuUcNsUtoj3.gif

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee14/DocWB/1-615-83386-l-vYMH6GaU9EHuUcNsUtoj3.gif

Qapla'

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee14/DocWB/1-615-83386-l-vYMH6GaU9EHuUcNsUtoj3.gif


Come on Max, top that!!!@@@

+1

Crestron gets thrown around more as they have a greater share of the market right now. AMX has almost recovered from the Whole Panja mess. When they went back to AMX, i recall one person who had a button that said, "sorry about that whole panja thing"

And Amx had some ugly panels until the latest generation. And in a year, it will flip again.

And saying ___ will introduce some sexy new stuff at cedia is like saying the sun will rise in the east tomorrow.

I have ad Crestron gear and when I bought there was both AMX and Crestron. The major benefit of Crestron is they have been around forever, the back their products to the hilt, their products last and last.

Would I use them again, sure would. I also agree on the asthetics as well, in 6 months Crestron will have the same or similar.

Most of the sex appeal and usability foe control systems is limited to how well the User Interface is designed.

In the future I think that devices like the iPhone will however take over from the current control panels and Crestron will be left with supplying back end gear.