Hey all, hopefully I can make this quick and painless. I've been doing a lot of searching and reading and want some slightly different input. First my situation:

Current setup Onkyo 805, soon to have Aperion 5.0 speakers
Budget ~$600 + shipping
Size requirements/limits None
Room dimensions Current: 13'W x 18'L x 7.5'H, enclosed basement room with no windows. But would like something that can fill up a larger room with windows if I move.
Primary uses 70% HT, 20% Games, 10% Music
Listening habits I LOVE deep, hard-hitting bass. So I want the power if needed, but most of the time will most likely have it turned down a bit to not drown out the other speakers.
Appearance Black
Timeframe Shipped and received within a week or two, max.

Ok, so all that is pretty straight forward. Basically, I think I would be fine with an HSU VTF-2 MK 3 or an SVS PB12-NSD. But... I'm wondering if I'd be happier with something bigger. So, it looks like I can get either of these three for $699 + shipping: HSU VTF-3 MK 3, AV123 MFW-15, Outlaw LFM-1 EX.

Now, here is the catch. I'm spoiled by great customer service and want the same from the companies I deal with. Aperion has amazing response and customer support. I want a reliable company to deal with when making a large purchase. I'd like to factor that in into my choice. I've heard bad things about Epik, which is why I did not include the Knight in my list.

Thoughts? Will I be satisfied with the VTF-2 MK3 or PB12-NSD, or should I go with one of the bigger boys in my list? From everything I've read, those three are pretty much on par with each other... or are they?

I should probably say that I've never had a HT sub, so I would most likely be wowed by a Bose "sub" ;)

Thanks!

I LOVE deep, hard-hitting bass...

...I would most likely be wowed by a Bose "sub" ;)

Doubtful ;)

Sorry, I couldn't resist. As for actually being helpful, of the companies you listed I have only dealt with SVS and my experience has been stellar on all counts. I've always received quick responses to questions via phone or e-mail (replies come well under 24 hours, sometimes in minutes). They've always been willing to help with setup/calibration/etc, and in the unlikely event of a product defect they'll take care of you quickly and to your satisfaction. I've heard great things about the other companies as well, but from personal experience I can wholeheartedly recommend SVS. I would guess that this would be the list in order of maximum output from most to least:

MFW-15
LFM-1 EX
PB12-NSD
VTF-2 MK3

The LFM-1 EX and PB12-NSD are probably very close in total output. The Hsu VTF-2 MK3 would likely be able to match the PB12-NSD's output in maximum output mode, but it wouldn't have as much deep extension. I would expect the MFW-15 to win out in output, and from a pure performance standpoint, it's a no brainer assuming you don't mind forking out the extra dough. None of these subs are slouches though, and in your current room I think they'd all do just fine. The MFW-15 would probably do best in a larger room if you end up moving in the future. Just my two cents. Hopefully owners of all of the above will chime in to help. Good luck.

Bose is comparable to your PC speakers. With the Bose sub, you'll feel nothing, only hearing horrible, distorted bass. I completely agree with lalakersfan34. Any of those subs will overwhelm you of deep, powerful bass. From what I've heard, the MFW-15 is your best bet.

Thank you for the replies so far. I was kinda making a joke about the Bose, I would never buy any of their products. Just wanted to point out that I have very limited experience with real subs.

So, it sounds like I should definitely go with one of the bigger subs, namely the HSU VTF-3 MK 3, the AV123 MFW-15, or the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. I'd still love to hear from people who may have had a chance to compare any of these in person, but otherwise I'll most likely have to roll some dice. :p

I have a Hsu VTF-2 Mk3 and have also listened to a friend's MFW-15 in my living room. I wrote about the comparison (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13755959#post13755959) back in April. When I tested, the MFW-15 was brand new and the driver had not had a chance to break in. I also only listened at average listening volume. I never cranked it way up. At the time, my VTF-2.3 was able to go deeper than the MFW-15. I have since listened to the MFW-15 many times at my friends house and it has incredible bass. You can just keep turning up the volume and it keeps outputting more and more loud, clean bass.

Where the MFW-15 outshines the VTF-2.3 is in the midbass region of 30-80 Hz. The MFW-15 can produce much higher output in this region. I have a Hsu MBM-12 and I think the MFW-15 is comparable. In fact, one MFW-15 is similar to my VTF 2.3/MBM-12 combo, but does it at a cheaper price.

The MFW-15 is very large and much harder to "hide" in the room than the VTF 2.3 (or 3.3). Part of your decision needs to be based on whether it will fit in the spot that provide the best bass. Also, with your current room size, I think you will be extremely happy with any of the subs listed.

In regards to customer service, I have never talked to anyone at Hsu. I just ordered on the internet and received my subs. With av123, I have ordered via the phone and have been very happy with the service I have received. I had some questions about the x-sub I ordered and these were answered very quickly via e-mail by their technical support department.

It sounds like the MFW-15 is very popular indeed. However, I've read some recent threads that imply that setting it up properly may be difficult. Is it a more complicated sub to get "right" than others?

Svs

Ok, I put together a little chart for myself, with the subs I'm considering:

Name|Price|Shipping|Total|Speaker|Watts|Low Freq
SVS PB12-NSD|$599.00|$80.92|$679.92|12"|325|18Hz
HSU VTF2-3|$549.00|$59.00|$608.00|12"|250|18Hz
HSU VTF3-3|$699.00|$100.00|$799.00|12"|350|18Hz
HSU VTF3-3 T|$749.00|$135.00|$884.00|12"|350|18Hz
AV123 MFW-15|$699.00|$130.00|$829.00|15"|350|16Hz
Outlaw LFM-1 EX|$699.00|$90.00|$789.00|12"|350|16Hz/22Hz


The SVS PB12-NSD is the low price winner, but I'm starting to lean more and more towards the MFW-15 for the apparently amazing performance. I'm pretty sure that any of these subs would be more than enough for my current setup, but it sounds like the MFW-15 is the long-term investment if I move to a bigger place. Any new/other opinions?

While I'm admittedly not speaking from practical experience here...I'm in a somewhat similar boat. I'll be purchasing 2 subs with a budget of right around $1200 +/- shipping around November-December. I usually takes me around 4-5 months to make a decision on these kinds of purchases, so I'm smack dab in the middle of the exact search you're on, including listening priorities and room size being nearly equal.

That said-

I have you considered "reconsidering" Epik? I've been following most of the news on the top contenders in this price range and have seen the negative info on Epik you mentioned, however, I don't believe I've seen anything more damniing regarding Epik than I have about av123. While certainly concerning ( cs goes a looong way with me), after watching the htreads on Epik and the MFW, I think you're looking at pretty comparable outcomes.

That said-

I'm waffling between a pair of Knights or MFW-15s, though it would've been the MFW's at the previous price point.

Keeping my fingers crossed for some kind of holiday deal on either....that would certainly "solve" my dilemma.

It's good to hear another logical voice of a thoughtful consumer. I hear what you're saying, I have been peaking at the Epic thread to see how things are getting resolved. I just priced out the Knight.. $758 shipped to my door. Not too bad. I guess I should do some more reading about that sub before I fully dismiss it. But bad CS is definitely a red flag in my book.

Ok, I put together a little chart for myself, with the subs I'm considering:

Name|Price|Shipping|Total|Speaker|Watts|Low Freq
SVS PB12-NSD|$599.00|$80.92|$679.92|12"|325|18Hz
HSU VTF2-3|$549.00|$59.00|$608.00|12"|250|18Hz
HSU VTF3-3|$699.00|$100.00|$799.00|12"|350|18Hz
HSU VTF3-3 T|$749.00|$135.00|$884.00|12"|350|18Hz
AV123 MFW-15|$699.00|?|$699.00|15"|350|16Hz
Outlaw LFM-1 EX|$699.00|$90.00|$789.00|12"|350|16Hz/22Hz



FYI - some info for your chart. The Outlaw LFM-1 EX is $599 and had free shipping during July. While unlikely, it might be worth a call to see if they'd still do free shipping if you're interested. Unfortunately, I haven't heard any of the other subs on the list to give you a comparison, although I have heard others compare the LFM-1 EX is to the HSU VTF3-3 (non-turbo).

Also, if you create an account for av123, and begin the checkout process you can see shipping costs. FWIW, it is $130 to Ohio, which may be close to the cost to ship to Seattle.

Ok, I put together a little chart for myself, with the subs I'm considering:

Name|Price|Shipping|Total|Speaker|Watts|Low Freq
SVS PB12-NSD|$599.00|$80.92|$679.92|12"|325|18Hz
HSU VTF2-3|$549.00|$59.00|$608.00|12"|250|18Hz
HSU VTF3-3|$699.00|$100.00|$799.00|12"|350|18Hz
HSU VTF3-3 T|$749.00|$135.00|$884.00|12"|350|18Hz
AV123 MFW-15|$699.00|?|$699.00|15"|350|16Hz
Outlaw LFM-1 EX|$699.00|$90.00|$789.00|12"|350|16Hz/22Hz


The SVS PB12-NSD is the low price winner, but I'm starting to lean more and more towards the MFW-15 for the apparently amazing performance. I'm pretty sure that any of these subs would be more than enough for my current setup, but it sounds like the MFW-15 is the long-term investment if I move to a bigger place. Any new/other opinions?

A few things to note...

First - any of these subs are really good performers... You will not be disappointed...

I believe shipping is right around $130 dollars for the MFW-15 (maybe less now)... but with our current promotion you do get a $70 Gift Card to spend later (nice)...

Do let me know if I can help...

mlsav123@mac.com

All the best...

mls

A few things to note...

First - any of these subs are really good performers... You will not be disappointed...

I believe shipping is right around $130 dollars for the MFW-15 (maybe less now)... but with our current promotion you do get a $70 Gift Card to spend later (nice)...

Do let me know if I can help...

mlsav123@mac.com

All the best...

mls

Hey Mark, thank you for your personal response, it's greatly appreciated! I actually called your support line during lunch and was able to get the $130 shipping charge, as you stated (chart updated). I'll do some more reading to make sure I'm not going overboard, but your MFW sub is making my trigger finger very itchy ;)

Hey Mark, thank you for your personal response, it's greatly appreciated! I actually called your support line during lunch and was able to get the $130 shipping charge, as you stated (chart updated). I'll do some more reading to make sure I'm not going overboard, but your MFW sub is making my trigger finger very itchy ;)

My pleasure...

I believe the MFW-15 has become so popular because it strikes right in the "sweet spot" of performance versus the dollars spent... It's sort of hard to beat... :o

That said - each of these competing products are all quite good - and worthy of your attention...

The one other very important factor to consider is how these will work over a variety of listening needs (HT - 2-channel audio - mc audio - gaming, etc.) and environments... I feel strongly about the MFW when considering these issues... One must weigh this when considering the competing brands...

Good luck...

All the best...

mls

Ok, I put together a little chart for myself, with the subs I'm considering:

Name|Price|Shipping|Total|Speaker|Watts|Low Freq
SVS PB12-NSD|$599.00|$80.92|$679.92|12"|325|18Hz
HSU VTF2-3|$549.00|$59.00|$608.00|12"|250|18Hz
HSU VTF3-3|$699.00|$100.00|$799.00|12"|350|18Hz
HSU VTF3-3 T|$749.00|$135.00|$884.00|12"|350|18Hz
AV123 MFW-15|$699.00|$130.00|$829.00|15"|350|16Hz
Outlaw LFM-1 EX|$699.00|$90.00|$789.00|12"|350|16Hz/22Hz


The SVS PB12-NSD is the low price winner, but I'm starting to lean more and more towards the MFW-15 for the apparently amazing performance. I'm pretty sure that any of these subs would be more than enough for my current setup, but it sounds like the MFW-15 is the long-term investment if I move to a bigger place. Any new/other opinions?

The VTF-3 MK3 Turbo has more output than the others mentioned from ~17hz down...It is just more conservatively rated.

The VTF-3 MK3 Turbo has more output than the others mentioned from ~17hz down...It is just more conservatively rated.

It's in the MFW-15's price range after shipping. Are you aware of any head-to-head comparisons? I was glancing at the Craigsub review and both seem very well liked.

I'm still leaning towards the MFW-15.. something about a 15" woofer makes me tingle ;)

I'm pretty set on getting the MFW-15, but now I'm trying to figure out the best placement for it. I plan to do the crawl-and-listen method, but I was hoping to get some starting position tips. I posted my question along with a sketch of my basement in another thread, so I'll just provide a link here. Any comments or suggestions?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14511967#post14511967

well i for one would definitely go with teh MFW15...i have had paradigm subs, def techs, jbl, and hsu (also svs) and i have ordered 2 MFW15's....can't wait to get them

teh HSU VTF3 MKii was an incredible sub (with turbo added on) however, it is one fugly looking piece of equipment when you have such beautiful works of are such as the Onix Rocket series surrounding it...plus i always want more bass :-)

Well, I just pulled the trigger on a satin black MFW-15. I am very excited and can't wait to hear this badboy. Mark, I wanted to thank you for your personal input, I can't wait to hear your sub :)

well my pacific northwest brother, you will love the MFW-15! My pair are simply amazing and make every movie sound like they did in the Theater and sometimes much better! :)

Congrats! Can't wait to hear what you think of our not-so-little baby ;) It's really a lot of fun. If you need anything let me know, I'm a fellow Seattle-ite as well :D

Cheers!

Scott

This is my first post here and hoping to find resolve...Dilemma is a subwoofer, I have been researching and wow, too many choices...I have a marantz 7002 receiver, speakercraft accufit speakers and needing a sub. Really like the mfw-15, but might be too big (not for me, the wife), also the hsu vtf 3.3, the svs sb-12plus and last but not least velodyne dls series...any thoughts?

I am interested in the MFW-15 but need something a bit smaller. Are there plans for an MFW-12? I don't need all that output, just some of it. What would be the next best choice for a subwoofer in this price range but about 25% smaller?

I am interested in the MFW-15 but need something a bit smaller. Are there plans for an MFW-12? I don't need all that output, just some of it. What would be the next best choice for a subwoofer in this price range but about 25% smaller?

There are no plans for for a MFW-12 but there is a Seaton designed X-plosive that will be quite a bit smaller. However - there is no current ETA for the X-plosive.

As for available subwoofers now I have no idea since since has not played much a factor in my subwoofer buying.