I have an antenna and a sat. I don't want to use a diplexer and have separate coax lines for the antenna and sat, which is run through a powered multiswitch. Right now I've got the antenna signal on a six-way powered splitter--the largest I could find--but I'd like more antenna outputs. I've tried daisy-chaining another splitter, but signal strength/noise definitely makes the signal inferior on the outputs on the second-connected splitter.

Is there are a larger antenna splitter out there I'm not finding? Or is there another better, more high tech solution?

How many TV's are you planning on needing an output for???

Several ways to skin that cat but using distribution amps is probably the best route. As an example, the Channel Plus DA-8200 supports 8 outputs and can be daisy chained for up to 64.

http://www.solidsignal.com/manuals/DA-8200HHR.pdf

Alternatively you could use a high gain / low noise mast mounted preamp like the Channel Master CM777 which would allow for multiple daisy chained splitters downstream.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANC7777

Or is there another better, more high tech solution?

The best solution depends on the strength of the signals, the gain of your antenna, and the length of the coax lines.

Generally speaking, a low noise amplifier at the antenna and passive splitter(s) will give the best performance. Yet there are situations where strong local TV signals make that approach unfeasible.

A professional would ask to see your tvfool data for both analog and digital channels before making a specific recommendation.

Several ways to skin that cat but using distribution amps is probably the best route. As an example, the Channel Plus DA-8200 supports 8 outputs and can be daisy chained for up to 64.

http://www.solidsignal.com/manuals/DA-8200HHR.pdf



Thanks for the info. I need/want about 12 outputs (to TVs and/or sat box off-air inputs) for my single attic-mounted antenna. We've got a large-ish house but I think all our coax runs should be well under 150 feet. We've got varying signal strength for the area we're able to pull in from (actually closer, mileage-wise, than our in-market area, which we can't get at all via antenna). Three channels need a little boost, and we're currently using a gain distributer to split the signal, and one tends to over-amp and lose the signal, because it's too high (if we turn the gain off, it comes back, but we lose the other three). We can't get everything via over-the-air but it's a good solution for a little-used outdoor and guestroom TV that I don't want to pay for sat on and it gives us a sat alternative, on at least some channels, when it's raining, etc.

So, if I got two of the DA-8200 mentioned above, how do you daisy-chain those? Just hook the second-input off of one of the original DA-8200 outputs? That's what we're doing now with our cheapie powered-antenna splitter models, and it doesn't really work well. Are these different?

And, lastly, based on my slightly more detailed explanation above of what I'm trying to do, is this the right solution?

Thanks for all your help and if I haven't given the info you need, please let me know. (I think the signals we're receiving are in the 40-50 miles away range but, based on TV and sat meters, we're currently getting signal strength, which I know is relative, in the 70s to low 90s on three channels, and the other one is high 90s that drops to zero, off and on.)

So, if I got two of the DA-8200 mentioned above, how do you daisy-chain those? Just hook the second-input off of one of the original DA-8200 outputs? That's what we're doing now with our cheapie powered-antenna splitter models, and it doesn't really work well. Are these different?
You don't daisy-chain amplifiers. You split the feed from the source and feed each leg into an amplifier. Or, better yet, a commercial distribution amplifier such as the HDA-1000 (http://www.cencom94.com/gpage4.html) (left column about 1/2 way down) and then the splitter configuration needed to feed as many outlets as needed. In your case, I would probably have the amp feeding a 2-way which then feeds an 8-way and a 4-way, with the furthest outlets being on the 4-way.

In your case, I would probably have the amp feeding a 2-way which then feeds an 8-way and a 4-way, with the furthest outlets being on the 4-way.
As would I, assuming you wanted relatively equal signals from each of the 12 runs. But if there are some inputs that will very rarely be used, it may be worth considering sacrificing their signal strength on the 8-way in order to get the most heavily-used inputs on the 4-way split (with less loss).

Like I said - there are many potential solutions, you may get some suggestions better than the two I offered up ;)

Cost and your wiring layout are two considerations that have not yet been mentioned. The distribution amp solution fits a structured wiring situation best. This is where all of your cables run to a single "homerun" or no more than a couple of locations. The high gain preamp + distributed splitters is more flexible and would work better if your wiring goes from room to room. Since splitters are cheap (but only buy quality high bandwidth soldered ones - don't go to Radios Hack) that is probably the most economical solution.

The DA series distribution amps ARE designed to be employed in multiple numbers and locations. Daisy chained was a poor choice of words on my part. They recommend a master & slave arrangement. Look at the hookup diagram included in the manual I linked (top left corner of page three - Expanding the DA-8200). Disclaimer - I have not used this equipment in this manner but Channel Plus does officially support it.

If you are considering this solution, there are several different models in the Channel Plus DA series line. Look at each carefully to see which fits your application best.

http://www.channelplus.com/products_rf.html

Your problem with boosting a week station signal without overdriving your strong signals is not something I have personal experience with. A variable attenuator may help in this regard. It could be placed on the incoming antenna coax (after the preamp or just before the distribution amp) and possibly "tuned" to an attenuation level that made for happy signal strength on all channels.

Winegard TA8700 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=TA-8700)

Antennas Direct 1296F (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=1296F)

Good Luck !

OK, I didn't think I was a total idiot about these things but maybe I'm wrong, because I'm now I'm totally lost.

When you say "split the feed from the source" I'm confused ... We do have a homerun situation, where all the coax cables, for all rooms, are run to one box in our attic. The antenna cable (the coax straight from the antenna) also comes into that box and, right now, I've got it hooked to a six-way powered splitter/amp, than have another powered splitter off of one of those inputs, i.e. what I would think of as daisy-chaining.

The original outlets--the five outputs coming off the powered splitter--work well; the four off the second splitter, not so much. (Not totally useless, but very unreliable.)

Are you saying I should just run a standard, non-powered, non-gain, splitter (2,4,3, whatever; just a one input/however many outputs situation) off of each output on the powered amp/splitter itself, or split the signal at the destination (i.e. one run from the splitter to the TV locale and then split three ways into, say, the TV itself and two sat boxes, for example)?

What we have now is a lot like this: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CM3045&xzoom=Large#xview (Channel Master CM 3045 Multi-Set Indoor Distribution Amplifier with Return Path) but a different brand with a little high/low gain knob on it.

Sorry, I'm such a dork and thanks for breaking it down for me.

OK, I didn't think I was a total idiot about these things but maybe I'm wrong, because I'm now I'm totally lost.

When you say "split the feed from the source" I'm confused ... We do have a homerun situation, where all the coax cables, for all rooms, are run to one box in our attic. The antenna cable (the coax straight from the antenna) also comes into that box and, right now, I've got it hooked to a six-way powered splitter/amp, than have another powered splitter off of one of those inputs, i.e. what I would think of as daisy-chaining.

The original outlets--the five outputs coming off the powered splitter--work well; the four off the second splitter, not so much. (Not totally useless, but very unreliable.)

Are you saying I should just run a standard, non-powered, non-gain, splitter (2,4,3, whatever; just a one input/however many outputs situation) off of each output on the powered amp/splitter itself, or split the signal at the destination (i.e. one run from the splitter to the TV locale and then split three ways into, say, the TV itself and two sat boxes, for example)?

What we have now is a lot like this: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CM3045&xzoom=Large#xview (Channel Master CM 3045 Multi-Set Indoor Distribution Amplifier with Return Path) but a different brand with a little high/low gain knob on it.

Sorry, I'm such a dork and thanks for breaking it down for me.
Antenna feed into a regular 2-way splitter. Each leg of that 2-way splitter goes into each 6-output amp. The (2) 6-output amps then feed your 12 outlets.

Duh, thanks. So simple ... Probably why I didn't think of it. :-)

The idea is have the least splits downstream after other splits. Have all the feeds coming from the fewest splits after the source as possible, with all having the same the same number of splits upstream of them.

With 12 drops, you need a distribution amp as close to the antenna as possible, and then do the math on splitting from there. One 4 way splitter and four 3 way splitters for a total of 12 drops would work.

Get the best signal to noise ratio DA you can, designed with enough power to overcome the number of splitters / drops in the system. The DA itself will spec how much gain in db it will provide.

Get at least 1GHz (5-1000 MHz) splitter capacity. Regal is the brand Comcast uses, on a two way splitter they quote insertion loss of 3.5db.

Regal is the brand Comcast uses, on a two way splitter they quote insertion loss of 3.5db.
Regal is one of the brands Comcast uses. Depends on the regional or state engineer. Around here, they used to use Regal passives and Digicon fittings. Now, and for the past few years, they use PCT for both the fittings and passives.

Are the amplifiers recommended above suitable for amplifiying digital TV signals? Is 1 GHZ fast enough to preserve digital TV signal quality?

Are the amplifiers recommended above suitable for amplifiying digital TV signals? Is 1 GHZ fast enough to preserve digital TV signal quality?

Yes. 1GHz is the bandwidth, or range of frequencies, that it amplifies.

OK, I didn't think I was a total idiot about these things but maybe I'm wrong, because I'm now I'm totally lost.

When you say "split the feed from the source" I'm confused ... We do have a homerun situation, where all the coax cables, for all rooms, are run to one box in our attic. The antenna cable (the coax straight from the antenna) also comes into that box and, right now, I've got it hooked to a six-way powered splitter/amp, than have another powered splitter off of one of those inputs, i.e. what I would think of as daisy-chaining.

The original outlets--the five outputs coming off the powered splitter--work well; the four off the second splitter, not so much. (Not totally useless, but very unreliable.)

Are you saying I should just run a standard, non-powered, non-gain, splitter (2,4,3, whatever; just a one input/however many outputs situation) off of each output on the powered amp/splitter itself, or split the signal at the destination (i.e. one run from the splitter to the TV locale and then split three ways into, say, the TV itself and two sat boxes, for example)?

What we have now is a lot like this: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CM3045&xzoom=Large#xview (Channel Master CM 3045 Multi-Set Indoor Distribution Amplifier with Return Path) but a different brand with a little high/low gain knob on it.

Sorry, I'm such a dork and thanks for breaking it down for me.


SusanandMark

I've got the same issue and have looked at the Channel Masters -- my dumb question -- what does the Return Path do?


bashtonsj

SusanandMark

I've got the same issue and have looked at the Channel Masters -- my dumb question -- what does the Return Path do?


bashtonsj
The return path allows for signals from the cable box, TV w/CableCard, cable modem, or whatever to send signals back to the cable company.

Here's my question regarding the units discussed above - do they amplify both VHF and UHF frequencies? Does the one amp do it all or do Ineed separate amps for these two bands? Are they both HDTV compatible or are they in some way restricted to analog video only ?

More questions:

What is the difference between the ChannelPlus DA-550 and the DA-8200, in their respective BID and HHR versions? What is teh difference between the 550BID and the 8200BID? What is the difference between the 550HHR and the 8200HHR? Why BID versus HHR?

The return path allows for signals from the cable box, TV w/CableCard, cable modem, or whatever to send signals back to the cable company.My understanding is that the CableCard does not support any return signals.

My understanding is that the CableCard does not support any return signals.
That is the CableCard. It has nothing at all to do an amplifier.

Again, the amps referred to above amplify the forward path of 50-1000MHz, which includes ALL of the forward CATV bands as well as ALL OTA bands (VHF/UHF/FM). It also passes the CATV return path of 5-42MHz.

What is the difference between the ChannelPlus DA-550 and the DA-8200, in their respective BID and HHR versions? What is teh difference between the 550BID and the 8200BID? What is the difference between the 550HHR and the 8200HHR? Why BID versus HHR?
Go to http://www.channelplus.com. They can answer that better than I can. If I remember correctly, though, the BID has a return path whereas the HHR doesn't. Also, the 550 is for a 12-volt I.R. system while the 8200 is for a 5-volt I.R. system

Thanks for the reply. I went tot heir web site and read everything I found. I even read the online manuals. The info provided is pathetically poor*. After all that, I am left with these questions.

Is there a better make/model on the market? I'm doing OTA reception via a large antenna with distribution to several TV's and recorders.



* It's so bad, I'm almost afraid to buy their product.

Then you do not need the return path for cable provided by the BID series. The HHR series is targeted at OTA only installations.

As others suggested for OTA, a mast mounted high gain / low noise preamplifier like the CM-7777 or something similar from Winegard is often an excellent fit. This will allow you to use passive splitters downstream and still maintain signal strength. Since it is fairly easy to overdrive ATSC digital tuners you may find a need to insert additional attenuation at some TVs that are only one split and a short cable run away.

Thank you all.

I spent some time working with the Channel Plus user manual today and, considering my layout, I agree with your recommended system. Boy!, Channel Plus needs some help re-writing the web site and manuals.

I'm going to get (have already ordered) a Channel Plus DA-500A +18 dB RF amp. This is going near the mast (within 10' and indoors). From there I distribute and split as required.

So, thank you all very much. You guys are great.

It's a funny world isn't it? I started out needing amplification, but then end up probably needing attenuators.