XD-E500 Owners thread. [Text View] - Page 6

Robertoy

11-06-08, 08:07 AM

Toshiba XD-E500 - Home Cinema Choice 161

"DVD REINVENTED - Toshiba XD-E500 brings hi-def to all"

Home Cinema Choice 161- on sale now

Steve May - 26 September 2008 - 11:23am

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/files/hcc_content/magazine_covers/HCC161cover.jpeg

Don’t tell anyone, but the original cover line for this month's issue was ‘HD DVD Returns’. We eventually opted against using it for fear that it would be too confusing. But such has been the buzz that Toshiba has created with it’s new near-HD DVD player, the XD-E500, that it seemed appropriate.

Few would have guessed that when it mothballed HD DVD, Toshiba would be back squaring off against Blu-ray quite so soon. There are plenty of other upscaling DVD players around, of course, but what makes this different is the sheer amount of processing power being deployed.

This issue we also take a closer look at new Blu-ray players from Sony and Panasonic, models which push both price points and performance, respectively.

And if you’re looking for a new amp or receiver to take advantage of the sensational sound available from BD, run, don’t walk, to our receiver grouptest.
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/latestissue/161

Toshiba XD-E500 in Home Cinema Choice 161.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5647/hcc161kv4.jpg

HCC: Is XDE implemented in dedicated hardware or firmware that runs on a (re)programmable high-speed DSP? In other words, could the XDE algorithms (and, come to think of it, the rest of the player) be upgraded via CD-ROM?

OvW: Yes, The XDE player, including the algorithms, can be upgraded via CD-ROM, within the limits of the processing power and memory of the embedded chipset, of course.
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/files/hcc_content/software/XDEtoshiba.pdf

Toshiba XD-E500 (computertv video)
http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=f3vN0h263D8&feature=channel

Roberto

robertc88

11-06-08, 08:49 AM

The interesting thing seems to be either this player is either loved or hated by folks who tried it, no in between. Almost makes me feel there are a number of defective units out there, including the one I'm trying. I will not go into details. It will go back and I don't know if I'll try another.

One think I'll mention is I could not sit close to my display with this player. The more one sits back from a display when viewing, the more your vision picks up outside the boundary on the screen.

lujan

11-06-08, 09:14 AM

Has anyone experienced slight pixelation? I got my new XDE today and its been happening a few times while watchin a movie (Final destination) -- only for like 1/2 seconds, though.. I hope its the dvd, maybe has some scratches, I dunno.. I hope it isn't the player!

any info appreciated :)

I had a wierd event with my XD-E500 the other day watching "American Wedding", the third "American Pie" movie. The screen was showing the dialog but not like with subtitles. It was garbled and was larger text than you would see with subtitles. Plus, it was appearing on the screen with the rest of the video. I had to rewind for the text to stop appearing to just show the video. I had to do this about two or three time during the movie. This is the first time I've seen this and it's only happened on this one movie out of about 10-15 I've watched. I think it was the disk but I hadn't noticed this playing the movie on other players. I watched "Antitrust" last night and everything was fine.

Josh Z

11-06-08, 11:02 AM

Why do you continue to post your negative opinions when it's clear how you feel? I've gone through this entire thread and it's one negative post after another. Give it a rest already and let others discuss the player, you've made your point. You're bordering on disruptive.

I am entitled to my opinion as much as you are entitled to yours. This is a long thread, and new readers are unlikely to go through the entire thing. I hadn't posted anything about my opinion of the player's quality in at least 5 pages, but somebody asked a question and I answered it.

Robertoy

11-06-08, 02:12 PM

Regarding XDE ON/OFF. Unnatural picture with XDE or not?

In CNET review:

Solid DVD playback performance with extended definition (XDE) disabled.

The problem with edge enhancement is that although it can appear to make an image look sharper at first, in reality it obscures real detail with the artificial edges. (Check out this excellent guide to edge enhancement if you'd like to see some examples.) However, according to Toshiba, the Sharp Mode uses selective edge enhancement--only adding it in certain places--but we still prefer to leave this mode off, as it tended to make movies look more artificial and less film-like. On the other hand, we could see less some viewers enjoying this mode, although many viewers can get a similar effect by increasing the sharpness control on their HDTVs.
http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/toshiba-xd-e500/4505-6463_7-33224998.html?tag=mncol;lst

A XD-E500 user opinion:

i have read the cnet review on this player and they didn't like it,well maybe they are right and it does make the picture look unnatural.......well if i want to see a natural picture i will look out the window,but when i watch movies i want to be entertained and see an awesome picture and this dvd player delivers as far as i am conscerned.What is really exciting is that this is only Toshiba's first try,i can't wait to see what they are able to do when they put a little more R&D into their next XDE player.
http://www.epinions.com/review/Toshiba_XD_E500_Player/content_447406182020

Different reviews and different user opinions:
http://www.pic4ever.com/images/121.gif

The best test is a live demo.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gif

Roberto

Josh Z

11-06-08, 04:06 PM

Regarding XDE ON/OFF. Unnatural picture with XDE or not?

In CNET review:

http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/toshiba-xd-e500/4505-6463_7-33224998.html?tag=mncol;lst

A XD-E500 user opinion:

http://www.epinions.com/review/Toshiba_XD_E500_Player/content_447406182020

The CNET review says what I've said all along, which is that this player's Sharpness enhancement does more harm than good and is best left off. However, if not for the Sharpness enhancement, what does this player have to distinguish it over any $40 DVD player? The answer: nothing. The sole reason for this player's existence is the enhancement modes, and if they're better left off than there's no reason to buy this player at all.

As for the user opinion, he has effectively stated the he doesn't give a damn about having an accurate or natural DVD picture. Well, good for him. Personally, that is not an opinion I put much value in. YMMV.

If this exact player had been released 4 years ago, it would have been laughed off AVSForum.

melodywhore

11-06-08, 07:07 PM

i've been considering picking up the E500 and i have a toshiba hdtv. does anyone else that owns this unit have a toshiba hdtv and do you have the same incorrect ratio issues... and if so, can they be fixed with adjusting the television ratio settings?

lemonde

11-06-08, 09:23 PM

The CNET review says what I've said all along, which is that this player's Sharpness enhancement does more harm than good and is best left off. However, if not for the Sharpness enhancement, what does this player have to distinguish it over any $40 DVD player? The answer: nothing. The sole reason for this player's existence is the enhancement modes, and if they're better left off than there's no reason to buy this player at all.

As for the user opinion, he has effectively stated the he doesn't give a damn about having an accurate or natural DVD picture. Well, good for him. Personally, that is not an opinion I put much value in. YMMV.

If this exact player had been released 4 years ago, it would have been laughed off AVSForum.

I'm trying to figure out what the point of your commentary is? Do you own the XDE500? Probably not. For someone who quotes himself as a contributor to many online A/V sites, I'm struggling to determine what value you are adding to the discussion here. Did an XDE500 bite you as you were walking down a Best Buy aisle? Or maybe it was too "sharp" for you..

This player upconverts better than any non OPPO DVD player I've ever owned, and even better with the sharp setting on.

JamalH

11-06-08, 10:24 PM

I still don't understand why the majority of you guys that are not liking it are comparing it to $400 DVD or Blu Ray players. I really think this thing needs to be compared to a cheap player, which is the market that Toshiba is going after. They aren't trying to convince people that Blu Ray isn't necessary. Just that a slightly more expensive DVD player can bring new life to your collection.

Either way, I'll pick one of these up to make my own conclusions as soon as Best Buy carries it.

I own this player also, and to be frank ive read this whole thread and the majority of posts are utterly ridiculous. I totally agree with the above poster on the basis that this is a DVD PLAYER not a Blu Ray player, you guys astound me on your dislikes, you expect the world from a $149 player sucking blood out of the proverbial rock would be a good analogy. How about you look at it for what it does and compare it to a normal shoddy dvd player like you should be instead of comparing it to HD content and Blu Ray players? because we all know DVDs will never be HD quality correct? but this player comes close as it claims so i dont see the problem

Lonely Surfer

11-07-08, 12:55 AM

The CNET review says what I've said all along, which is that this player's Sharpness enhancement does more harm than good and is best left off. However, if not for the Sharpness enhancement, what does this player have to distinguish it over any $40 DVD player? The answer: nothing. The sole reason for this player's existence is the enhancement modes, and if they're better left off than there's no reason to buy this player at all.

As for the user opinion, he has effectively stated the he doesn't give a damn about having an accurate or natural DVD picture. Well, good for him. Personally, that is not an opinion I put much value in. YMMV.

If this exact player had been released 4 years ago, it would have been laughed off AVSForum.

I agree with the others, this drone of yours is getting old. Yeah, yeah, you're "entitled to your opinion"....let them enjoy their players in peace.

JamalH

11-07-08, 01:20 AM

Josh has a very negative attitude towards this player, who knows why

Its a usual trait for those who hate to truly like but not admit it to themselves.

-RONIN-

11-07-08, 02:55 AM

I agree with the others, this drone of yours is getting old. Yeah, yeah, you're "entitled to your opinion"....let them enjoy their players in peace.

Well said, there is a point when even "entitled to your opinion" wears thin and becomes a distraction to the rest of the community and the topic. There is clearly a driving force behind his negativity and it sure isn't the player it's self.

joed32

11-07-08, 08:23 AM

I'm trying to figure out what the point of your commentary is? Do you own the XDE500? Probably not. For someone who quotes himself as a contributor to many online A/V sites, I'm struggling to determine what value you are adding to the discussion here. Did an XDE500 bite you as you were walking down a Best Buy aisle? Or maybe it was too "sharp" for you..

This player upconverts better than any non OPPO DVD player I've ever owned, and even better with the sharp setting on.

He is defending Blue Ray and trying to convince everyone that it is better than this SD Toshiba. I guess Blue Ray people are still angry with them over the "war". If this player was made by any other manufacturer they wouldn't even be commenting about it. I think everyone here already knows that HD is better than SD and no one is arguing that point.

PooperScooper

11-07-08, 08:23 AM

I'm trying to figure out what the point of your commentary is? Do you own the XDE500? Probably not.
It's obvious you haven't read the thread, at least Josh's posts.

larry

Doug G

11-07-08, 08:31 AM

Has anyone got either of the BBC productions "Planet Earth" or "Blue Planet" on DVD they can try on this player? I was hoping to pick them up soon and wondered if they were shot and mastered as film or video. Anyone know? If video, I'm curious to know how they play on this player given all the relatively poor video mode deinterlacing. That would be a real bummer.

I received the first disc of Planet Earth last night and I managed to watch the first 20 or so minutes. The results were mixed, although worse than I had hoped. There's significant stuttering in 24p mode. Many of the overhead/panning shots are very affected. But there are also portions that don't seem to be. I replayed several problematic scenes in 1080p/60 mode and sure enough the problems were completely eliminated.

So considering these issues and the fact that it seems like a bit of a waste to view such stunning photography in anything but the native HD format, I think I'll hold off on owning it until I go BD a couple years down the road.

robertc88

11-07-08, 09:12 AM

There is no reason whatsoever if you are remotely interested or curious like I was not to at least try it. Evaculate it for yourself. I strongly feel since the opinions are love or hate, there may be some defective units. Other than that, we all do have different displays.

PooperScooper

11-07-08, 10:50 AM

I received the first disc of Planet Earth last night and I managed to watch the first 20 or so minutes. The results were mixed, although worse than I had hoped. There's significant stuttering in 24p mode. Many of the overhead/panning shots are very affected. But there are also portions that don't seem to be. I replayed several problematic scenes in 1080p/60 mode and sure enough the problems were completely eliminated.

So considering these issues and the fact that it seems like a bit of a waste to view such stunning photography in anything but the native HD format, I think I'll hold off on owning it until I go BD a couple years down the road.

1080p24 output is only useful for film based material. It's been stated earlier that the player does not detect the cadence. Planet Earth is not a film so having problems is to be expected with 1080p24 output. This would happen with any player. Also, forcing 1080p24 for 30 fps video doesn't make sense.

larry

Josh Z

11-07-08, 11:06 AM

I'm trying to figure out what the point of your commentary is? Do you own the XDE500? Probably not.

You have clearly not bothered to read any of my previous posts. Yes, I have an XD-E500 and have tested it thoroughly. It failed almost all of my critical tests for DVD player performance.

For someone who quotes himself as a contributor to many online A/V sites, I'm struggling to determine what value you are adding to the discussion here.

Really? You are so enraptured with this player that you fail to see any value in someone posting a contrary opinion?

I totally agree with the above poster on the basis that this is a DVD PLAYER not a Blu Ray player, you guys astound me on your dislikes, you expect the world from a $149 player sucking blood out of the proverbial rock would be a good analogy. How about you look at it for what it does and compare it to a normal shoddy dvd player like you should be instead of comparing it to HD content and Blu Ray players?

As a DVD player, the XD-E500 fares poorly. As I said, if this unit had been released 4 years ago (prior to Blu-ray) and compared only against other DVD players available at that time in its same price range, the people on this forum would have laughed at it for about 3 pages and then dismissed it entirely.

Apparently, times have changed. It seems that all of a sudden, people here no longer want an accurate or natural DVD picture. All the traits that used to be essential in a good upconverting DVD player, like proper deinterlacing performance and an artifact-free picture, are no longer considered important. Flaws that used to be the enemy of DVD viewers, like excessive edge enhancement, are now considered virtues. Standards for what is considered "good picture quality" have dramatically lowered.

You'll have to forgive me for being a little puzzled at all the praise for a DVD player whose primary attribute is that it slathers the picture in heavy edge ringing. As someone who has fought for years to improve the picture quality from all video sources, the current attitude here really baffles me.

Bill Cruce

11-07-08, 12:16 PM

You'll have to forgive me for being a little puzzled at all the praise for a DVD player whose primary attribute is that it slathers the picture in heavy edge ringing.

I agree 100% with Josh. Plus, it doesn't properly handle 4:3 formatted pictures (and no firmware upgrade has been forthcoming to correct this gross error). Although it has 24 FPS output it cannot detect when that is appropriate (film material) vs. when it is not (video material). Actually this player doesn't deserve the space devoted to a review. It is simply a pretty bad DVD player, made worse by its claims of superiority.

pwang8

11-07-08, 01:03 PM

I don't quite understand the bashers. If a owner likes his products, let him enjoy it in peace. As long as he enjoys it who cares if the product is not perfect. Mp3 is not a perfect audio solution and can not compete even with CDs in terms of audio quality. But look how many people are enjoying mp3s?

I've owned the XDE500 for a couple weeks now and this is the best player for my DVDs. I prefer sharpness only and my wife prefers contrast. We can not leave the effect off. Even with all the "so called flaws and failed tests", we still enjoy this DVD player the most.

Josh Z

11-07-08, 01:35 PM

If a owner likes his products, let him enjoy it in peace. As long as he enjoys it who cares if the product is not perfect.

Who cares? People reading this thread and being mislead into believing that the XD-E500 actually improves DVD playback quality, only to bring it home and discover that it actually degrades DVD playback, that's who.

BMAG

11-07-08, 02:24 PM

Who cares? People reading this thread and being mislead into believing that the XD-E500 actually improves DVD playback quality, only to bring it home and discover that it actually degrades DVD playback, that's who.

Have you considered the possibility that your XDE is defective? There are numerous reports from early adopters who purchased an XDE, had a similar experience to you, but replaced the unit and are now pleased. See the following customer review from amazon, for example:

http://www.amazon.com/review/RX7YSNJZKAQK5/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm

Like this reviewer, I find the XDE does a better job of playing SDDVDs than my Toshiba HD-A35 (which itself is far superior to my Sony BDP-S300). On my 106" screen, using a Panasonic AX200 720p front projector, SDDVDs played on the XDE (using sharp+contrast mode) look spectacular, not craptacular. With my setup I am particularly sensitive to artificial edge enhancement, aka ringing, and the XDE absolutely DOES NOT add this effect. If you are seeing it on your XDE, you are probably viewing a poorly mastered SDDVD, one which will look just as bad on any other player.

robertc88

11-07-08, 02:37 PM

Wondering if we can get some screeshots. It is the only way to tell what specific folks are seeing with this player on their displays. Bad units was only an assumption I was making.

The reports and opinions are either very very good or poor. Too drastic of a difference in my opinion. Folks ain't going to keep a unit that is bad and use it over what they already own so something is amiss.

Doug G

11-07-08, 04:39 PM

1080p24 output is only useful for film based material. It's been stated earlier that the player does not detect the cadence. Planet Earth is not a film so having problems is to be expected with 1080p24 output. This would happen with any player. Also, forcing 1080p24 for 30 fps video doesn't make sense.

I'm quite aware of the applications and limitations of 24fps mode and the average deinterlacing capabilities of this player, I wasn't asking about that.

This article (http://www.videography.com/articles/article_14974.shtml) discusses some of the production details used for the series, but more importantly reiterates what I knew to be true before even attempting to play this disc back in 24p mode:

"Producers of nature documentaries, which by and large are shot on film, are in the precarious position of never being certain of the quality of footage until the film footage is developed and returned from the lab."

If this had been the case for Planet Earth, how 24fps originated content post-produced in a 25p PAL environment would perform on the XDE in 24p mode is a big unknown.

As it turns out, the footage for this series was shot using mostly 720p HD video at variable frame rates, although some SD footage is present as is some true film-based material. A variety of frame rates like 24p, 60p, 150p and 400p were used on the many different cameras that shot the footage. Initially all the frame rates for the selected shots were normalized and then the entire post-production was done in 25p. Even if not a true film-based production, there is a possibility that the NTSC version would simply be a slowed down 25p (the inverse of the common technique of obtaining 25p from 24p by speeding up the frame rate by 4%) and thus spoof 24fps. Apparently this process is not very common and an interlaced interpolation technique (50i->60i) is more widely used. This likely results in a 30p (video) flag structure on the DVD which is isn't compatible with the 24p film mode of the player.

Josh Z

11-07-08, 08:01 PM

Have you considered the possibility that your XDE is defective?

I know whose opinions can be trusted in these matters, and everyone with a reliable background in DVD player reviews has come to the same conclusions about this model that I have. I find it hard to believe that we've all gotten defective units. If we have, a failure rate that significant doesn't exactly speak well for Toshiba, does it?

pixel8

11-07-08, 08:19 PM

Well, I bit the bullet. Bought one online and it's on the way.

I just couldn't find/read another worthy OPPO alternative in this forum and didn't want to pay anything higher than $100 for a 2nd upscaling DVDP.

Hoping I will be a happy owner.

lemonde

11-07-08, 08:24 PM

You have clearly not bothered to read any of my previous posts. Yes, I have an XD-E500 and have tested it thoroughly. It failed almost all of my critical tests for DVD player performance.

Really? You are so enraptured with this player that you fail to see any value in someone posting a contrary opinion?

As a DVD player, the XD-E500 fares poorly. As I said, if this unit had been released 4 years ago (prior to Blu-ray) and compared only against other DVD players available at that time in its same price range, the people on this forum would have laughed at it for about 3 pages and then dismissed it entirely.

Apparently, times have changed. It seems that all of a sudden, people here no longer want an accurate or natural DVD picture. All the traits that used to be essential in a good upconverting DVD player, like proper deinterlacing performance and an artifact-free picture, are no longer considered important. Flaws that used to be the enemy of DVD viewers, like excessive edge enhancement, are now considered virtues. Standards for what is considered "good picture quality" have dramatically lowered.

You'll have to forgive me for being a little puzzled at all the praise for a DVD player whose primary attribute is that it slathers the picture in heavy edge ringing. As someone who has fought for years to improve the picture quality from all video sources, the current attitude here really baffles me.

OK, so I'm man enough to admit that I didn't read all of your posts to know that you are an XDE 500 owner. Fine.

While you might do some sort of technical "test" on the player, the only test that matters is the test of the eyes my friend. And the eyes tell me that it cranks out a very nice upscaled picture that looks quasi HD. Who cares about tests if it looks good to the eyes. Oh, maybe its because I'm sitting 12 feet back from my 46" Tosh XF550U 1080p television, I can't "see" the flaws. The reality is that many of us are not going to do the immersive experience thing and sit X feet from the screen according to the THX certified distance. If I sit closer, hell yeah, I see all sorts of crap!! But my Pioneer DV 400 so called upscaling HDMI 1080p always looked like crap on a flat panel TV, fantastic on a Tube, crap on a flat panel.

What the XDE500 has given people is a new hope to watch SD DVD's on their new big screen TV's.

You say 4 years ago?? 4 years ago we all owned tube TV's?!!! You think we would have noticed the difference between DVD players on a 480i interlaced signal? Really? The XDE500 was built to enhance the DVD experience on big ass flat panel TV's for people who are sitting a normal distance away from the screen (not THX distance).

I will repeat, this is not a replacement for Blu-Ray. Maybe Oppo makes a better player. However I don't need to take out a subprime mortgage to buy one either, the OPPO's can be pricey. I can get a Tosh XDE500 for $100 bucks. What more could you ask for for $100 bucks?

I think you and I differ on is the fact that I subscribe to the theory of "good enough picture for my eyes at a reasonable price".

I have to admit I enjoy healthy debate with any member who calls himself "cranky"

lemonde

11-07-08, 08:33 PM

Who cares? People reading this thread and being mislead into believing that the XD-E500 actually improves DVD playback quality, only to bring it home and discover that it actually degrades DVD playback, that's who.

Again, IMO, it improves DVD playback quality immensely, compared with my old Pioneer DV 400 which was fantastic on a tube, crap on a big flat panel. Do you simply dismiss the people on this forum who say it looks good? Explain how that works?

lemonde

11-07-08, 08:38 PM

I agree 100% with Josh. Plus, it doesn't properly handle 4:3 formatted pictures (and no firmware upgrade has been forthcoming to correct this gross error). Although it has 24 FPS output it cannot detect when that is appropriate (film material) vs. when it is not (video material). Actually this player doesn't deserve the space devoted to a review. It is simply a pretty bad DVD player, made worse by its claims of superiority.

Bill, I agree with your assessment that it does not handle 4:3 format correctly, and there is a bit of an issue with 1080p/24fps with some stuttering for some DVD's put in. Again though, the people responding here give a thumbs up to the quality of the upconverting picture...what do people want for $100? It is not a "pretty bad DVD player". It is a very good DVD player with a great upscaling capabilities offset by several flaws noted above, BUT THE PRICE POINT IS RIGHT AND THAT'S WHY WE BUY!

JamalH

11-07-08, 10:46 PM

Again, IMO, it improves DVD playback quality immensely, compared with my old Pioneer DV 400 which was fantastic on a tube, crap on a big flat panel. Do you simply dismiss the people on this forum who say it looks good? Explain how that works?

If for one notice a big improvement also, i dont know what hes testing it against or what hes using it for.

pixel8

11-08-08, 01:28 AM

4:3 format?!! Is that still available on dvd format?

1080p/24 ? Are these documentary dvds?

Bill, I agree with your assessment that it does not handle 4:3 format correctly, and there is a bit of an issue with 1080p/24fps with some stuttering for some DVD's put in. Again though, the people responding here give a thumbs up to the quality of the upconverting picture...what do people want for $100? It is not a "pretty bad DVD player". It is a very good DVD player with a great upscaling capabilities offset by several flaws noted above, BUT THE PRICE POINT IS RIGHT AND THAT'S WHY WE BUY!

nyt

11-08-08, 04:56 AM

Who cares? People reading this thread and being mislead into believing that the XD-E500 actually improves DVD playback quality, only to bring it home and discover that it actually degrades DVD playback, that's who.

I had a DCDi player and enjoyed macro blocking for years.. did you dismiss the first Oppo players with this flaw as altering picture and not being worth a review? Hmm, I thought so too..
Fact, XDE can overly sharpen the picture on already pretty sharp material, and picture is softer than it should be with the sharpening off. But it is rare enough that it doesn't bother me. The other issue I noticed with sharpen mode is moire on some specific areas (actually only witnessed on a single movie so far).
Overall, it is hit and miss, with 90% hit and 10% miss IMO. That I can live with.
Now for you to bash it do death because on your super size screen you can see ringing everywhere.. what can I say, fork 4x the amount for a 983 and leave it at that. I am not fond of stuff that artificially enhance the picture (i.e color or contrast modes) but sharpen sures do a nice job at least with my 37" TV at a reasonnable distance.

lemonde

11-08-08, 05:37 AM

I would not recommend "videophiles" buy this player. It may fail a number of technical tests, particularly ones where your eyeball is 1 inch from the screen, it also costs too little, thus destroying what little prestige/reputation poor Tosh has left after losing the HD format war, it doesn't have the supercellprocesser which upconverts black and white VHS movies to beautifully colourful super HD images, and is outdated in general by at least 4 years.

Sarcasm aside, there were some big expectations from the videophiles here, and there are some weaknesses to the player (no last memory, 24p glich, so-called inability to show 4:3 "who watches 4:3 material, wouldn't you use your TV setting to correct the aspect ratio"?)

But you can't trump the majority on this board who are saying "the tosh xde500 is a much better upconverting DVD player than anything else I've had in the past, and works especially well on big screen HDTV's larger than 40" under normal Carlton Bale viewing distances, not THX certified viewing distances".

If I want to view at THX recommened distances, then I will have to buy a Blu-Ray player, which someday I will do, I have no issues with that. Problem is that my wife won't let me put the lazy boy in the middle of the room between the TV and the furniture behind!

I suggest the videophiles, with unlimited capital resources, should by the Denon DVD player ($500 to $800) as I'm sure that player will pass all the technical tests while at the same time making you poorer with no incremental difference in picture quality.

Josh Z

11-08-08, 08:47 PM

While you might do some sort of technical "test" on the player, the only test that matters is the test of the eyes my friend. And the eyes tell me that it cranks out a very nice upscaled picture that looks quasi HD. Who cares about tests if it looks good to the eyes. Oh, maybe its because I'm sitting 12 feet back from my 46" Tosh XF550U 1080p television, I can't "see" the flaws. The reality is that many of us are not going to do the immersive experience thing and sit X feet from the screen according to the THX certified distance.

I would not recommend "videophiles" buy this player.

Why are you posting here? What do you think this forum is?

You say 4 years ago?? 4 years ago we all owned tube TV's?!!!

I certainly didn't. You act like 2004 was the home theater stone age.

Seriously, where you do think you are? This is the Audio Video Science Forum. If you don't want to discuss the scientific testing of audio and video equipment, you're in the wrong place.

bruceames

11-09-08, 01:15 AM

If you don't want to discuss the scientific testing of audio and video equipment, you're in the wrong place.

So how did the dynamic algorithm test out in the XDE, Josh? You know, the algorithm responsible for the selective edge enhancement. How did it score?

pixel8

11-09-08, 03:17 AM

So, Josh Z, pray tell what is the best upscaling player to get at $100 range?

JamalH

11-09-08, 04:17 AM

He cant answer that question because there isnt one...

mike--

11-09-08, 05:02 AM

He cant answer that question because there isnt one...
yes there is............
I had recently purchased an Oppo 981, and was less than thrilled with it. I saw this player(Pioneer DV-410V-K) at Best Buy....for $89.99!! So i decided to buy it, thinking if I didn't like it, I could return it. With this new firmware, this player is simply amazing! It outperforms the Oppo at less than half the price! Just simply amazing! I had also bought a Toshiba XDE-500,which was ok for widescreen movies at upconverting, but no 4:3 support on that. Plus, it is limited in the upconversion itself (sharp,color,contrast--with no variations either-I:E, one can't reduce the color or bring it up slightly. The same on the other settings too) So this Pioneer is quite possibly the absolute best deal there is for upconverting,it does SO MUCH MORE!............at least I think!

pixel8

11-09-08, 07:37 AM

That's new. Pioneer 410 > Oppo 981.

Will keep that in mind if my E500 sucks later.

joed32

11-09-08, 08:37 AM

lemonde

11-09-08, 11:16 AM

That's new. Pioneer 410 > Oppo 981.

Will keep that in mind if my E500 sucks later.

Well there you go, all I had to do is upgrade from the Pioneer DV400 to the DV410 to get a good upscaled DVD picture. Did I make the wrong decision? No. Why? I paid $100.00 for the XDE500.

lemonde

11-09-08, 11:19 AM

Why are you posting here? What do you think this forum is?

I certainly didn't. You act like 2004 was the home theater stone age.

Seriously, where you do think you are? This is the Audio Video Science Forum. If you don't want to discuss the scientific testing of audio and video equipment, you're in the wrong place.

Are you telling me that 99% of all postings on AVS are of a technical nature? Bull you know what. I don't really have an issue with your technical conclusion to this player, I'll agree with it. Problem is that you fail to want to agree with the rest of us posters on this thread that the XDE500 looks good to our eyes.

Josh Z

11-09-08, 11:24 AM

So how did the dynamic algorithm test out in the XDE, Josh? You know, the algorithm responsible for the selective edge enhancement. How did it score?

Very poorly. Every movie I played in it had visible edge ringing with the Sharpness setting turned on. As for the "selective" nature of the filter, it didn't always add ringing to every part of the frame, but it did almost always add ringing somewhere in the frame. For example, in a scene of a man walking down the street, the man in the foreground may not have an edge halo but the buidlings and signs behind him would. I found it very unnatural and distracting.

Josh Z

11-09-08, 11:26 AM

And this is the Standard Definition section of that forum.

There are better Standard Definition players than this. This is not the Substandard Definition forum.

Josh Z

11-09-08, 11:41 AM

So, Josh Z, pray tell what is the best upscaling player to get at $100 range?

It seems that people in this forum value cheapness above all else these days. There needs to be a balance struck between value and quality. The XD-E500 is a very cheap player, but it is not a very good player. In fact, there are cheaper players that perform just about as well as it does, so it's not a particularly good value either.

There are a number of superior upconverting DVD players in the $200 range. If the difference of $100 is going to break your budget, then you're not looking for quality. You're looking for cheap. I have no problem with someone looking for a cheap DVD player, but I do have a problem with people pretending that this particular player offers high quality, when it manifestly does not.

If your priority is obtaining a cheap DVD player, I would recommend that you pick up any off-brand $50 Chinese player and just crank the Sharpness setting in your TV way up. You'll get about the same results as the XD-E500 for half the price.

lemonde

11-09-08, 02:52 PM

Bill Cruce

11-09-08, 03:20 PM

It seems that people in this forum value cheapness above all else these days. There needs to be a balance struck between value and quality. The XD-E500 is a very cheap player, but it is not a very good player. In fact, there are cheaper players that perform just about as well as it does, so it's not a particularly good value either.

Like Josh, I have reviewed a lot of A/V equipment, including SD DVD players and high definition ones. And we have both looked at a lot of movies on home media (beta, VHS, laserdisc, DVD and beyond) So our eyes are well trained and flaws that may not bother others drive us to distraction.

I was very interested in reviewing the Toshiba XD-E500 because it promised so much. When I received a review unit, I never ran many serious tests on it because it looked so awful playing ordinary DVDs, in terms of de-interlacing and scaling. I gave Toshiba numerous opportunities to replace my review unit after telling them what I saw. That they did not tells me it was not defective and what I saw is what they knew I would see. I chose not to write a review of the unit because I don't want to waste my time on bad video equipment.

I am not usually interested in cheap video equipment, unless it is something of outstanding quality. Thus my interest in and disappointment with the Toshiba.

If you have money invested in a large SD DVD collection and a good quality HD display, why in the world would you want to buy a cheap (i.e. $100 or less) DVD player that doesn't bring out the best picture from your DVDs? In my experience the best value DVD player you can get is the Oppo 983. It does a great job of deinterlacing and scaling. It plays every video and audio format as well as all foreign discs. And if you are serious about movies, many classics are in 4:3 format which the Oppo, as well as any $29 DVD player, can properly display. OK, the Oppo is $400. But how much is your DVD collection worth? How much did you pay for your HDTV display? Actually if you are a serious videophile you would spend a couple of thousand dollars on a stand alone video processor. But that is less and less necessary with good SD DVD players like the Oppo 983.

So, could someone explain why they are so obsessed with buying a cheap DVD player? Is it for the bedroom? For the kids? Because you don't own very many DVDs? Because you watch them on a small screen? You watch while multitasking so video quality is not really that important to you? These are all legitmate reasons. And they are reasons why I own several cheap DVD players. But please don't try to make the Toshiba something it is not.

nyt

11-09-08, 04:58 PM

So, could someone explain why they are so obsessed with buying a cheap DVD player? Is it for the bedroom? For the kids? Because you don't own very many DVDs? Because you watch them on a small screen? You watch while multitasking so video quality is not really that important to you? These are all legitmate reasons. And they are reasons why I own several cheap DVD players. But please don't try to make the Toshiba something it is not.
Ditto (wrt your last sentence), it is far superior for the non-hardcore videophile, which is:
-the target market!
-everybody but Oppo/Denon/external scaler's owners.
IMO macro blocking was much more distracting than most of the XDE side effects. On mid size screens, or at least on mine (37"), it does a nice job. I have OTA HD so I know it is far from being the same, but it is decent (vs my previous DCDi player). You may not agree with me but someone else compared it to a 983 and found the picture to be decent as well, so please, stop with "it isn't worth more than $29" when a few people saw otherwise, even if you think we suck because we can't be bothered to focus on artifacts like you are trained to do. Or: we don't want to be saved from our inability to see how crappy this player is.

emthree

11-09-08, 05:47 PM

Boston Litigator

11-09-08, 05:49 PM

Has any used this through component?

Bill Cruce

11-09-08, 06:07 PM

All the so called 'scientific' testers, use more or less the same equipment to conduct the tests and therfore see the same 'artefacts' from any given 'sub-standard' player. What it doesn't quite feel like is true sciense as these tests don't seem to test what they are designed to test; i.e. viewing experience of the majority. The tests therefore lack what is statistically termed 'sensitivity'. Hence the so called science is merely psudo-science at best. My science teacher used to say that any discipline that has to specify itself by adding 'science' to its name is not science. E.g. social science, christian science, political science etc. AV science seems to fall into this category. Physics, Chemistry, Math never need the suffix.

XDE seems to be a good case in point. The testers are seeing 'artefacts that to the majority viewers either are not visible or seem like improvements. It is a classic case of 'jaundiced eye seeing yellow only'.

IMHO only, of course!

There are accepted engineering standards for video transmission and equipment and there have been since the earliest days of television. These standards are there so that equipment is compatible. These standards are firmly founded on human visual perception. And there are standard tests to determine whether equipment follows the standards. My most important test is first, my eyes. I follow normal viewing with other tests, using standard sources and equipment. But you don't need any equipment other than good eyes to understand what the Toshiba XD-E500 is doing to video from a DVD. And it isn't very subtle or nit-picking.

And, by the way, there are sciences with the "science" suffix that don't qualify as "pseudo," for example "neuroscience."

pixel8

11-09-08, 06:15 PM

The more this debate is going, the more I can't wait to try it out.

If it's really that bad, that must tell a lot of those official articles reviewers who praised it.

bruceames

11-09-08, 09:32 PM

There are accepted engineering standards for video transmission and equipment and there have been since the earliest days of television. These standards are there so that equipment is compatible. These standards are firmly founded on human visual perception. And there are standard tests to determine whether equipment follows the standards. My most important test is first, my eyes. I follow normal viewing with other tests, using standard sources and equipment. But you don't need any equipment other than good eyes to understand what the Toshiba XD-E500 is doing to video from a DVD. And it isn't very subtle or nit-picking.

And, by the way, there are sciences with the "science" suffix that don't qualify as "pseudo," for example "neuroscience."

Yes there are accepted standards and tests, but this player is using selective edge enhancement via a dynamic algorithm that is unique to this player. Thus there is no testing equipment that exists for measuring the effectiveness of this method for enhancing video. That's what is driving you guys nuts, that your tests can't account for this, and the vast majority seem to really like this player, which contridicts your test results. Josh seems to think that that edge enhancement is not selective at all, but is the same as cranking up the sharpness. But that is not the case, and if Josh is wrong about that, then it's easy to question his conclusions.

Your also correct that the most important test is the eyes. So by reading through this thread, this player does extremely well in the eye test, with the exeption of a few critics and a couple of members. Coincidence?

lemonde

11-09-08, 09:37 PM

There are accepted engineering standards for video transmission and equipment and there have been since the earliest days of television. These standards are there so that equipment is compatible. These standards are firmly founded on human visual perception. And there are standard tests to determine whether equipment follows the standards. My most important test is first, my eyes. I follow normal viewing with other tests, using standard sources and equipment. But you don't need any equipment other than good eyes to understand what the Toshiba XD-E500 is doing to video from a DVD. And it isn't very subtle or nit-picking.

And, by the way, there are sciences with the "science" suffix that don't qualify as "pseudo," for example "neuroscience."

Bill, how close do you sit from the screen in order to determine your opinion with your eyes?

I think the "average person" sits 10 to 15 feet away from their 52"/46"/40" TV and therefore it is difficult at that distance to see any artifacts at all. I think that serious technofile reviewers (Bill and Josh Z) would sit closer because that's what the THX standard imandates. And by default, any flaws will come out. If I sit 5 feet away, the picture has flaws on the XDE. From 10 feet back it looks sharp and flawless on my 46".

I guess my point is that picture quality should be judged using real world conditions. It's quite possible that the XDE 500, the newly released Pioneer DV410, the Oppo's, would show an equivalent picture that was much better than my old DV400 which was awful. DVD's became watchable again when I replaced the DV400 with the Toshiba.

Soon enough though, I will get a Blu-Ray and all of this discussion above will be moot anyways.

Lonely Surfer

11-10-08, 02:47 AM

Bill, how close do you sit from the screen in order to determine your opinion with your eyes?

I think the "average person" sits 10 to 15 feet away from their 52"/46"/40" TV and therefore it is difficult at that distance to see any artifacts at all. I think that serious technofile reviewers (Bill and Josh Z) would sit closer because that's what the THX standard imandates. And by default, any flaws will come out. If I sit 5 feet away, the picture has flaws on the XDE. From 10 feet back it looks sharp and flawless on my 46".

I guess my point is that picture quality should be judged using real world conditions. It's quite possible that the XDE 500, the newly released Pioneer DV410, the Oppo's, would show an equivalent picture that was much better than my old DV400 which was awful. DVD's became watchable again when I replaced the DV400 with the Toshiba.

Soon enough though, I will get a Blu-Ray and all of this discussion above will be moot anyways.

It will only be moot in regard to the small percentage of titles available on Blu-ray. That's why these upconverting players matter. I have maybe 800 DVDs with 90% of the movies made before 1980. If everything were available in BR...fine, but that's a pipe dream.

Xylon

11-10-08, 03:18 AM

Wait a minute there is an "enhancement mode" ? Like "artificial sharpening" ?

lemonde

11-10-08, 05:47 AM

Wait a minute there is an "enhancement mode" ? Like "artificial sharpening" ?

Yes.

Robertoy

11-10-08, 06:45 AM

I would like to see the video experts opinions regarding Shomi Technologies HD @ SD technology...

From Shomi Technologies:

Hello All, my name is Mark Ford, and I am the author of several of the press releases you have read about Shomi Technologies new HD @ SD technology. A friend of mine sent me this link and I thought I would jump in and respond.

First, a brief history. We are a small R&D based company who has spent the last 5 years quietly designing several core technologies for different industries. Our first technology to be released is a Video Signal Processing Technology which has many features, of which the incredible clarity, resolution, detail and color improvements we have dubbed HD @ SD.

We just went live with the technology approximately 1 month ago at the big ASIS Security and Surveillance Show where image resolution improvements for Surveillance purposes is always needed. (lets face it, camera outputs are less than good!)

Our setup for the live demo was 3 32" LCD monitors side by side:

- one had a blue-ray player playing 1080p, thru HDMI, to the monitor
- one had Toshiba's XDE playing SD content, upconverted to 1080p to the monitor
- one had a SD Toshiba player outputing composite, to our unit, with its output being composite to the monitors composite input.

All were playing Spiderman 3 synced up as humanly possible.

Many video experts came by and saw the demo with none of them able to pick which monitor was Blu-Ray HD vs. ours at SD. Though the XDE output looked better when you turned on its features, it was still noticeably distinguishable.
I know this sounds like its not possible, or a sales pitch, but it is possible, and I'm just repeating what we heard at the booth. Please do not get into a negative post here, I'm just hoping to get the word out.

All comments, questions and skepticism is fair, and truthfully, nothing new to us. We have heard it all and we can and have proved it in technical due-dillegence in an independent evaluation. Its interesting, because we hear the comment about 'tricking your brain' alot, but we are not doing anything of the likes.
Instead of starting with the presumption we are tricking you, start with the presumption that we can resolve significantly more detail from the signal than anybody-else can, thus the info is really there! Case in point, we are required to not alter any data if its part of a surveillance product, for court usage purposes...yet, we resolve and show alot more info than anybody-else can? We can provide such proof to the courts.

As for the XDE, I like the product and we own many of them and the quality is very good, no doubt about it.

May I recommend two things, first, go read our other press releases to see what else we do with the video signal that nobody-else does. (see in shadows during bright days, reduce video bandwidth by 70% with no compression and completely lossless) which might show that we are confident in our abilities and want everybody to see them soon, and second, find a way to come see the demo in Chicago at the end of November.

I promise, we do no trickery...we just resolve everything that is there, we add no information!

Next live demo:
http://rsna2008.rsna.org/images/rsna_2008_logo.jpg
November 30–December 5 • McCormick Place, Chicago, Illinois

http://rsna2008.rsna.org/customcf/exhibitor_list/displayEx.cfm?exbID=2031&width=600

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1075025

Roberto

PooperScooper

11-10-08, 08:16 AM

I would like to see the video experts opinions regarding Shomi Technologies HD @ SD technology...
Why didn't you bump the linked thread? The Shomi tech has nothing to do with this player.

larry

Joseph B

11-10-08, 08:59 AM

Robertoy

11-10-08, 09:56 AM

The player therefore "works for me".

This is what matters. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gif

Roberto

BMAG

11-10-08, 10:05 AM

As a satisfied Tosh XDE-500 owner, I would like to address a few points in this thread:

1. Yes, In one of the "XDE" modes (Sharp, Color, Contrast) selective "ringing" is apparent in various scenes.

2. If the XDE-500 is calibrated properly with the video enhancement features of your choice turned on, the selective "ringing" is mostly unobtrusive on a digital display.

For example, my main display unit is the Optoma HD-65 front projector, which is a native single chip DLP 720p device that supports 1080p/24. (The main advantage of running 1080p/24 on a 720p device is judder reduction; however, I have also found that the Optoma does a better job downscaling 1080i/p to 720p than it does upscaling 480p to 720p.) I'm projecting onto a 96" 16:9 1.0 gain screen; and my seating ranges from 8.5' to 10' from the screen. (In other words, I'm "too close" to hide video artifacts.)

I run the Tosh XDE unit with "Sharp+color" and set my projector up in "Cinema" mode with the gamma set to "PC". (This mode provides an almost "CRT-look" to the resulting image.) I then calibrate brightness and contrast with the THX Optimode found on the "Finding Nemo" disc. For some reason, the Optimode calibration routines provided on that particular title seem to work well with about 99% of the DVDs out there.

I swear to you that in this environment the XDE-500 really does make many of my DVDs look "almost like" HD. Most DVDs certainly look better than 1080i HD cable with this setup. And the selective enhancement works very well. In most cases any background "ringing" is obscured by the PC gamma setting; and in most cases there is no "ringing" of foreground objects.

For me, this player really does everything I would ever hope for.
It is *not* a Blu-ray replacement; but it does make the bulk of my DVD collection viewable on my equipment.

The player therefore "works for me".

Excellent post! I was going to post my own long reply, but except for some equipment setup details, your post sums up my own experience. I too use a 720P front projector (Panasonic AX-200) on a large-ish screen (106") and sit 10 feet away. If there are flaws in the picture quality, they are quite noticeable. My PJ also does a better job down-coverting a 1080 image than it does of upconverting a 480 image. My setup includes a Sony Bluray player, a Toshiba HD-A35 HDDVD player, and the XDE-500. I have over 1800 SD DVDs, 140 HDDVDs and 50 Blurays. Around 35-40% of my hidef discs are double-dips, but I have no intention of re-buying the vast majority of my SDDVDs. The XDE-500 makes it possible for me to enjoy this collection. I use the sharp+contrast setting and can categorically state that it DOES NOT introduce ringing. I have looked for it and it simply is not there. My PJ is calibrated with sharpness at zero. I recently watched a couple of SDDVDs on the XDE-500 that have scenes which are a perfect test for ringing. Phantom of the Opera and Hellboy both contain night-time snow-covered graveyard scenes which are a good torture test for edge enhancement, and the XDE-500 passes the test. I could have spent three-to-four times as much for an Oppo, but based on what I am seeing that would be a waste of money. The XDE-500 presents better upconverted SDDVD image quality than the HD-A35 and the Sony BDP-S300. And yes, the image can look as good as Comcast's version of HD. On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is 480p SDDVD and 10 is 1080p Bluray and HDDVD, I rate them as follows:

Upconverted SDDVD on Sony BDP-S300 = 4
Upconverted SDDVD on Toshiba HD-A35 = 7
Comcast HD 1080i programming = 8.5
Upconverted SDDVD on XDE-500 = 8.5

Josh Z

11-10-08, 10:30 AM

Yes there are accepted standards and tests, but this player is using selective edge enhancement via a dynamic algorithm that is unique to this player. Thus there is no testing equipment that exists for measuring the effectiveness of this method for enhancing video. That's what is driving you guys nuts, that your tests can't account for this,

There is a perfectly simple test for this. You put in a couple of movies and watch them. If you see halos in the picture that aren't there with the Sharpness setting turned off, or aren't there on other DVD players, then the player has failed the test. The XD-E500 fails this test by a wide margin. It added halos to every movie I watched on it.

The "selective" nature of the XDE sharpening algorithm might be more useful if the player allowed you to adjust the intensity of the sharpening. Unfortunatley, it does not. The sharpening is either on at full blast, or off entirely, with no middle ground.

By comparison, the REON "Edge Enhancement" filter in Toshiba's own HD-XA2 player can be adjusted in a couple of different increments. The lower setting does a fairly decent job of sharpening the picture without adding thick and obnoxious edge halos. The higher setting is too strong and introduces distracting halos. The XD-E500 is comparable to the High setting on the HD-XA2.

Doug G

11-10-08, 12:48 PM

For those who may have missed it way back on pg 1, check this post of mine. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14498447#post14498447) I was one of the first owners of this player and had the opportunity to directly compare its upconverting capability to an XA2 using a fully calibrated RS1 on a 120" screen in the dedicated theater of a fellow AVS member. To summarize, yes the XDE adds slightly more EE than the XA2 set to "1" but not quite as much as when its set to "2". This can be mitigated by reducing the sharpness control on the display. For the record, the XA2 adds halos in some cases, too. Its also a well documented fact that the 24p mode of the XA2 is very problematic. The XD-E500 is much more robust in this regard. Is it perfect? Nope, but I'll take something that works 95% of the time over not at all. Same goes for the deinterlacing capabilities. Its a flag reader. Is that a problem? Only for some small percentage of discs out there. I learned when buying my RP-91 (another pure flag reader based on the original Genesis 2-chip solution) not to get caught up in the corner cases as its very easy to do when analyzing all the reviews.

So with regards to the XD-E500 and SD handling capability as it compares directly to the XA2, what we have here is a player which nearly equals and in some regards even exceeds the performance of a player nearly 4x the price, yet because it lacks in a few areas (4:3 handling, bad-flag deinterlacing, no last play memory) its branded by the reviewers as garbage not worthy of attention at any price. In my experience this is to be expected, as reviewers tend to focus on the negatives or things a player can't do as it relates to videophile levels of performance and rate them accordingly. I think this kind of treatment tends to distort the actual performance one can reasonably expect during normal use. I also can't help but think a little of this abhorrence is due to some of them just wanting to "get on with it" now that the format war is over and anything standing in the way of this garners some amount of resentment on their part. Yeah, it would be nice if SD would just vanish like Betamax, but that just ain't happening, especially in this economy.

I use this player on a regular basis and for the price, I'm quite happy with its performance. Sure there are times you can tell its enhancing the picture, but these scenes would still look poor on any player. Garbage in, garbage out, simple as that. But the rest of the time, on a properly calibrated display, the results can be quite pleasing. Most recently I viewed the SE of "The Princess Bride" and although the transfer was a tad on the soft side I thought (i.e. very "filmlike" and certainly preferable to overly sharpened any day), I can't recall a single scene (at 104" mind you) where I cringed and thought to myself, "Ew, that looks horrible!". When A/B'ing any SD material with the sharpness mode on/off, I always find I prefer it enabled at such a large screen size. For me, the minor ringing that may exist or enhancement of certain MPEG artifacts which are less visible with it disabled, are outweighed by the fact that a large majority of the time the PQ is markedly better than any SD DVD should have a right to look at this size. Is it "HD"? No. Is it "HD-like"? Well, that depends on your definition of "like". IMO there will never be true HD from anything SD, that's pure video alchemy.

And as far as the highly anticipated cell-based SRT players, it wouldn't surprise me to see those never happen at all. There's actually a very good chance that by the time they're ready, they're just too expensive compared to what are sure to be much lower priced BD players with even better performance than we have today (including SD upconversion.) Toshiba likely knows this and made the proper business decision that a lower cost XDE player now would generate more revenue than a higher end SD upconverting player later. Or maybe they've already decided that even today there's just no market for a mainstream $400 upconverting player, no matter how good the PQ. Heck, just because they haven't made any plans to release a Blu-ray player doesn't mean they don't understand the market for SD-only players is coming to and end in the near future.

I, as many owners, am hopeful that Toshiba will release a firmware update soon to address some of the problems mentioned above, but I'm not holding my breath for it either. Nor am I planning to ditch mine because of these limitations. I'll just continue using it, aware of its issues, and not concentrating on those but instead just enjoying it. The best thing I ever did was stop always "critically viewing" everything and just start enjoying things. After all, nothing's perfect. ;)

Joseph B

11-10-08, 01:13 PM

Doug,

Nice post!

In regards to the continuous harping regarding the lack of a discrete 4:3 aspect ratio setting, I would like to point out that most HD displays provide a 4:3 aspect ratio option. Certainly, my Optoma HD-65 does. So that particular "deficiency" is a non-issue for me.

Also, the "auto-fit" aspect ratio option in the XDE-500's menu actually works if the DVD is flagged properly for it. (Yes, there are "flags" for the aspect ratio coded into certain DVDs; these are remnants of the old "P&S-on-the-fly" codes that were part of the original DVD spec.)

As an example of this, put the "Toy Story 2 Collectors Edition" in your XDE-500, ensure that the aspect ratio for the DVD player is set to "auto-fit" and the aspect ratio for your display is set to 16:9. Then play the preview trailers on Disc 1.

Some of these trailers are in 4:3, some are in LBX 1.85:1, and some are in anamorphic 16:9. You will actually see the XDE-500 automatically switching to the proper aspect ratio as it plays the previews. Unfortunately, probably very few DVDs are flagged like this.

evasive1

11-10-08, 01:23 PM

Damn, Doug. That was a very well-worded response to all the controversy. It may be your opinion, but nonetheless, it's one I respect. I have my doubts pulling the trigger on this player, but I'm going to give it a chance. What do I have to lose? I think a 10% restocking fee if I return it. Big deal. What I have to gain far outweighs that risk. I'm not expecting magic, just a temporary fix.

I'll be back with an unbiased and fair opinion myself.

Josh Z

11-10-08, 01:28 PM

This can be mitigated by reducing the sharpness control on the display.

And what is someone to do if their display's Sharpness is already at 0?

The E500's sharpness filter is excessive. I'm glad that you'll agree with me on that. If the player had been designed right in the first place, you wouldn't have to try to hide the artifacts it produces by changing your display away from the calibration settings that are appropriate for every other video source.

Doug G

11-10-08, 02:42 PM

The E500's sharpness filter is excessive. I'm glad that you'll agree with me on that.

I would agree with you that the XD-E500's sharpness filter is slightly excessive and that this can be brought within reasonable performance using the display's sharpness control.

And what is someone to do if their display's Sharpness is already at 0?

Any decent display device will have a sharpness control which can both boost and cut the HF response. If there are displays out there which have the minimum setting defined as "flat" so that no further HF attenuation (e.g. "softening") is available, I would agree the sharpness mode on the XDE may not be as compatible with those displays for those with a more discerning eye. In any case, I don't see how the failure of a particular display to properly implement a sharpness control suddenly becomes a fatal flaw in the XD-E500 player.

emthree

11-10-08, 03:26 PM

There are accepted engineering standards for video transmission and equipment and there have been since the earliest days of television. These standards are there so that equipment is compatible. These standards are firmly founded on human visual perception. And there are standard tests to determine whether equipment follows the standards. My most important test is first, my eyes. I follow normal viewing with other tests, using standard sources and equipment. But you don't need any equipment other than good eyes to understand what the Toshiba XD-E500 is doing to video from a DVD. And it isn't very subtle or nit-picking.

And, by the way, there are sciences with the "science" suffix that don't qualify as "pseudo," for example "neuroscience."

Neurosciences is a rubric for all manner of other sciences that don't need to use the suffix, to wit, Nurology, Neuroanatomy, Neurophysiology, Neuropsychology etc. It is a bit like using Chemical Scinces to denote Organic and Inorganic chemistry. So not quite the same difference!

While on semantics, in my post above where I said 'sensitivity', I menat 'validity'.

Back to XDE, testers seem to be focusing on the trees whereas viewers are more interested in the forset! And have, by and large, found the forest quite appealing. The 'halo'ing effect has been talked about much but I have not seem any pictures of it here. The only picture I saw posted was the grossly and deliberately distorted photo of Michelle Pfeifer (or was it Uma Thurman?) that had no bearing on the reproduction of XDE. OTOH, many snap shots have been posted from the XDE display and they seem very good indeed. One was infact mistaken for an HD DVD player shot.

So something doesn't compute. If the player is really as bad as the 'testers' suggest (and not all have damned it as much as the posters on this thread), then obviously they are out of touch with what majority viewers consider a 'good picture'. And these majority viewers are knowledgible AVS forums readers and contributers who know a thing or two about matters audio-visual.

Josh Z

11-10-08, 04:20 PM

Any decent display device will have a sharpness control which can both boost and cut the HF response. If there are displays out there which have the minimum setting defined as "flat" so that no further HF attenuation (e.g. "softening") is available, I would agree the sharpness mode on the XDE may not be as compatible with those displays for those with a more discerning eye. In any case, I don't see how the failure of a particular display to properly implement a sharpness control suddenly becomes a fatal flaw in the XD-E500 player.

So now it's somehow a failure of the display that the XDE player excessively edge enhances the picture? Riiiiiiiight.....

Doug G

11-10-08, 05:20 PM

So now it's somehow a failure of the display that the XDE player excessively edge enhances the picture? Riiiiiiiight.....

You can't be serious. I never said any such thing. As a matter of fact I fully acknowledged the slight over-enhancement of the XDE's sharpness mode needs some mitigation to be more tolerable to those with higher visual standards.

I'm merely refuting your postulate that the XDE isn't a viable player since some displays are hindered by an inadequate sharpness control.

I also find it surprising that such a seasoned reviewer and videophile like yourself doesn't already know that one of the basic ISF principles is that all devices must be calibrated independently. So you're argument that the XDE requires "changing your display away from the calibration settings that are appropriate for every other video source" doesn't seem to make all that much sense or be grounded in Audio Video Science.

Hambo2000

11-10-08, 06:27 PM

Like many of you I have an extensive DVD collection (800+) so I'm always on the lookout for the pinnacle in SD upconversion.

I have read a lot about this player but have my concerns. Anyway, I am seriously considering buying one of these players BUT I'd really like to know beforehand whether its better at DVD upscaling PQ than my current Tosh XA2?

Is there anyone out there who's owned both and can comment directly on this?

Many thanks.

emthree

11-10-08, 06:36 PM

jerryg25

11-10-08, 06:45 PM

I own the xa2 and the 983. I find them to be about equal in pq. I have owned the 500 for sometime now and i enjoy watching dvds with it. Is it better pq than the other two depends on what you like to see on the screen. if i look for the flaws in the 500 i can find some that do not show up on the other two. I enjoy the different kind of picture that i see with the 500 and i generally use it for playback. It is hard to say about the pq of the 500 except that with test disks you can see the short commings but when viewing a dvd and not being critical about everything i like what i see and am not sorry i purchased it. I personally like the picture. At times the picture looks near hd. I think for the price of the 500 it plays well. If you want the perfect pq then bd or one of the other two would be better. Try the 500 and see what you think.

Hambo2000

11-10-08, 08:31 PM

Hi Jerry, thanks for the feedback. Have u done a side by side comparison of all 3? Or in particular the XA2 and 500? Which PQ do u prefer or does it depend? I'm not caring about test discs, only real world DVD pq.

jerryg25

11-10-08, 08:42 PM

That is hard to answer. I watched the same movie on both players and without looking for anything but just enjoying the movie i sort of like the ee effect that the 500 puts out it is different than the ee of the xa2. It may be the selective inhancement that the 500 does. I have been using the 500 for most of my viewing lately. I use the other players when i watch tv show dvds they seem to do alot better on them. The 500 ee seems to cause an image shifting on fast motion, i guess the ee can not keep up with it. Generally though i prefer it on film dvds. So that is all i can say, i have two top of the line players and the 500 and that is how i use them. On film dvds i have not seen any motion problems.

jerryg25

11-10-08, 09:02 PM

I just remembered i did a comparison using th I,Robot dvd because it has a great scene where he is chasing the robot with the purse running by brick buildings and jumping railings etc. The 500 looked really great in those scenes no jaggies are any problem that i could see. One scene where the xa2 outdid the 500 was where the robot Sonny was on the table to be shut down and the overhead shot rotated 360 degress with a grid pattern under the table there was no jaggies with the xa2 but the 500 showed some as it rotated. All in all it looked really good on the 500.

lemonde

11-10-08, 09:34 PM

You can't be serious. I never said any such thing. As a matter of fact I fully acknowledged the slight over-enhancement of the XDE's sharpness mode needs some mitigation to be more tolerable to those with higher visual standards.

I'm merely refuting your postulate that the XDE isn't a viable player since some displays are hindered by an inadequate sharpness control.

I also find it surprising that such a seasoned reviewer and videophile like yourself doesn't already know that one of the basic ISF principles is that all devices must be calibrated independently. So you're argument that the XDE requires "changing your display away from the calibration settings that are appropriate for every other video source" doesn't seem to make all that much sense or be grounded in Audio Video Science.

The "seasoned reviewer and videophile" still hasn't answered my question about what alternative upconverting DVD player he would choose in lieu of the XDE500.

candyman56

11-10-08, 09:37 PM

What are these rings that everyone keeps referring to? Is it due to the Edge Enhancement?

Star56

11-11-08, 06:39 AM

What are these rings that everyone keeps referring to? Is it due to the Edge Enhancement?

Nope. Psychosis.

emthree

11-11-08, 10:28 AM

Nope. Psychosis.

HAhahaha! ROTFL:D

Josh Z

11-11-08, 11:14 AM

The "seasoned reviewer and videophile" still hasn't answered my question about what alternative upconverting DVD player he would choose in lieu of the XDE500.

In the same price range, I would go with the Oppo DV-980H. Its deinterlacing is only fair (certainly no worse than the XDE's), but it passes blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white (which the XDE will not), and doesn't add any unwanted artfacts to the picture. The 980 produces a natural and accurate DVD image.

For a bit more money, the Oppo DV-983H remains one of the best upconverting DVD players on the market, matching the performance of much more expensive high-end players.

But frankly, what I would really recommend right now is the Panasonic DMP-BD35. For $260 (Amazon's current price), it has solid DVD upconversion (better than the XDE) and gives you full-featured Blu-ray playback. This is the product of the year for anyone who owns an HDTV.

Josh Z

11-11-08, 11:15 AM

What are these rings that everyone keeps referring to? Is it due to the Edge Enhancement?

An explanation of what Edge Enhancement does to a picture. (http://www.videophile.info/Guide_EE/Page_01.htm)

jerryg25

11-11-08, 12:54 PM

That was a good example of what ee does, I was wondering what all the complaining was about because i have a 50 inch screen and sit 12 feet away so i probably do not see it like a big screen viewer does. It looks like a good comparison to make would be to use Titantic with no added ee and T2 with a bunch to see what the 500 does to the picture.

Doug G

11-11-08, 02:45 PM

Once I went there I remembered visiting that same page years ago, but never paid much attention to the titles.

I wonder if this explains why there were so many copies of T2:UE at BJs for like $6! Looks like I'll have to turn the sharpness mode off for this one.... :(

I also recently replaced my original copy of Braveheart with the newly released re-mastered version which is supposed to have much truer colors and be much more film-like than the original transfer. Now my interest is peaked to sit down and give it a watch. The original, while maybe not having a lot of EE, wasn't a very good transfer - lacked detail and generally a too cool palette with visible artifacting/tiling in many scenes.

jerryg25

11-11-08, 03:51 PM

Josh Z

11-11-08, 05:20 PM

I just finished running a quick check using my 983 sharp set to 0. Watching Titantic from 6 feet or my normal distance of12 feet 50 in screen it looked good a either distance. The 500 looked good at 12 feet but got a little grainy at 6 feet plus some jaggies not visable at 12 feet. I watch some t2se the same way and i could see the ringing everyone talks about on both players less visable at 12 feet. On t2 it looked better with the sharp off than on. I see why most complaints come from big screen watchers. The viewing distance really seems to make a difference in pq when using the 500. So i guess a viewer with a small screen or longer viewing distance will have a good picture from the 500 but closer or bigger screen needs a better quality player.

Keep in mind that what I'm about to say is not intended as a criticism of you, your equipment, or how you watch movies. I am merely pointing out some statistics here.

A 50" 16:9 TV has a screen width of about 3.6'. At a distance of 12', that means you're sitting 3.33x the screen width away. In home theater terms, that's quite far, and your eye will not be able to pick up on artifacts that will be visible at 1.5x, which is the recommended distance for those with dedicated theater rooms.

Does that mean that you can't (or shouldn't) enjoy movies on your TV in your room with your equipment? No, obviously not. All I've ever tried to say is that this player has undeniable drawbacks and is not recommended for home theater viewers looking for the best picture quality possible. Which used to be the point of this forum.

jerryg25

11-11-08, 05:51 PM

I agree that at certain distances or screen size the pq of any player could be suspect. I know that my xa2 and 983 look good at any distance. I think the 500 for anyone with a small screen or longer viewing distances get a pretty good bang for the buck. I never believed that a player at this price range would be the best but it sure can look good at times.

lemonde

11-11-08, 07:12 PM

In the same price range, I would go with the Oppo DV-980H. Its deinterlacing is only fair (certainly no worse than the XDE's), but it passes blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white (which the XDE will not), and doesn't add any unwanted artfacts to the picture. The 980 produces a natural and accurate DVD image.

For a bit more money, the Oppo DV-983H remains one of the best upconverting DVD players on the market, matching the performance of much more expensive high-end players.

But frankly, what I would really recommend right now is the Panasonic DMP-BD35. For $260 (Amazon's current price), it has solid DVD upconversion (better than the XDE) and gives you full-featured Blu-ray playback. This is the product of the year for anyone who owns an HDTV.

Yes, it is only a matter of time to move to Blu-Ray and I have also heard that the Panny DMP-BD35 is the one to get. I am probably going to sit on my hands for another quarter or two before I bite. Until then I will enjoy the XDE500.

bruceames

11-11-08, 07:54 PM

Well perhaps AVS at one time consisted primarily of folks with dedicated HT rooms, but it would appear AVS has 'branched out' (if you will) to include HT enthusiasts who can't afford such luxuries. It seems as if the normal/average distance-screen-size ratio is about 2:1, and in my opinion the XDE gives the best results from the range of 1.5:1 to 2.5:1, with the 2:1 being optimal. If you get under 1.5:1 (or so), the ringing starts to become apparent, and over 2.5:1, the XDE 'magic' wears thin, as just about any upconverting player will look good from beyond that ratio. These are just my observations from reading all the posts so far and obviously the player is not for everybody.

Moks007

11-12-08, 04:27 AM

Josh Z

11-12-08, 12:42 PM

Well perhaps AVS at one time consisted primarily of folks with dedicated HT rooms, but it would appear AVS has 'branched out' (if you will) to include HT enthusiasts who can't afford such luxuries.

I have never been what anyone would describe as rich. When I started in the home theater hobby, I couldn't afford the high-end equipment. But I came to places like AVSForum to learn about what critical qualities really matter so that I could find the best bang-for-your-buck products available. I learned that you don't need to spend big bucks to get good quality, and I also learned that it is not wise to settle for junk just because it's cheap. With that in mind, I built my theater room over time through the selective purchasing of worthwhile components that would hold up over time.

Despite the way it's marketed, the XD-E500 is not a true bang-for-your-buck product. To mix metaphors a little more, it's all sizzle and no steak.

nyt

11-12-08, 01:49 PM

Despite the way it's marketed, the XD-E500 is not a true bang-for-your-buck product. To mix metaphors a little more, it's all sizzle and no steak.

The thing is, the cheapest player you consider is the 980, approaching twice the XDE price. Maybe you are right that given the price of other HT components one should learn to spend more on this, but at this point it is not happening, so in the sub 100 players, it is doing fine :D Now if every DVD was edited properly it would be even better.. and I can't believe in our digital era we still have to put up with things like interlaced encoding.

briansxx

11-12-08, 06:47 PM

I'm noticing an occasional "burp" with the XDE; the sound seems to momentarily mute and (very rarely) the screen will also drop put to noise (like a TV pic with no antenna attached. Anyone else have this problem?

Best,

Brian

bruceames

11-12-08, 08:26 PM

Despite the way it's marketed, the XD-E500 is not a true bang-for-your-buck product. To mix metaphors a little more, it's all sizzle and no steak.

I don't know, I see plenty of happy owners in this thread and only few complaining. By your criteria perhaps it's not a good value, but all these happy owners can't be wrong and for the most part are not watching from the front row in their HT room. Probably the Oppo players and other high end DVD players do look better than this one from a 1:1 ratio, so for them I guess this player won't be a good choice. The XDE's best results are from a more normal distance/size ratio, and watching too close negates its effectiveness and it becomes a flaw instead. But anyway, I don't why anyone would want to watch DVDs from inside a 1.5:1 ratio. Isn't that what Blu-ray is for?

candyman56

11-12-08, 10:06 PM

The thing is, the cheapest player you consider is the 980, approaching twice the XDE price. Maybe you are right that given the price of other HT components one should learn to spend more on this, but at this point it is not happening, so in the sub 100 players, it is doing fine :D Now if every DVD was edited properly it would be even better.. and I can't believe in our digital era we still have to put up with things like interlaced encoding.

The 980H is $170, its the 983 which is close to $350-$399.

MARTINIGUY

11-13-08, 12:16 AM

Well, I took the step and picked one up at Best Buy yesterday. I waited till the wife got home to audition the player. I have only tested two DVDs so far and on my 73" display it outperforms
"looks better" when compared to my XA-2 with reon. It works for me so it looks like a keeper to take the upconversion duties off the HD player. All I can say is try it, you may like it....I did

joed32

11-13-08, 08:27 AM

I don't know, I see plenty of happy owners in this thread and only few complaining. By your criteria perhaps it's not a good value, but all these happy owners can't be wrong and for the most part are not watching from the front row in their HT room. Probably the Oppo players and other high end DVD players do look better than this one from a 1:1 ratio, so for them I guess this player won't be a good choice. The XDE's best results are from a more normal distance/size ratio, and watching too close negates its effectiveness and it becomes a flaw instead. But anyway, I don't why anyone would want to watch DVDs from inside a 1.5:1 ratio. Isn't that what Blu-ray is for?

He's on a crusade against this player. Seems to be a knowledgeable and nice guy other than his hate of this unit. Maybe the people who like the picture they are getting don't know how to search for flaws, or maybe we have bad eyesight, or maybe were just too dumb to grasp what he is trying to teach us. I like it a lot and am enjoying watching DVDs on it.

lujan

11-13-08, 09:10 AM

... But anyway, I don't why anyone would want to watch DVDs from inside a 1.5:1 ratio. Isn't that what Blu-ray is for?

I can see flaws even on Blu-ray if I get close enough. Point is, the XD-E500 produces a beautiful picture as long as you're not watching too close.

BMAG

11-13-08, 09:16 AM

I can see flaws even on Blu-ray if I get close enough. Point is, the XD-E500 produces a beautiful picture as long as you're not watching too close.

I sit 10 feet away from a 106" screen, i.e., 120 inches from a 92 inches-wide screen. Bluray, HDDVD, and Comcast cable HD all look great. The image from my XDE-500 is quite watchable, even at my viewing ratio of 1.3:1. The XDE-500 does a better job of upconverting SDDVDs than my Toshiba HD-A35 and Sony BDP-S300. Perhaps the Oppos would be even better, but at <$100 the XDE-500 is a steal.

-RONIN-

11-13-08, 11:59 AM

I sit 10 feet away from a 106" screen, i.e., 120 inches from a 92 inches-wide screen. Bluray, HDDVD, and Comcast cable HD all look great. The image from my XDE-500 is quite watchable, even at my viewing ratio of 1.3:1. The XDE-500 does a better job of upconverting SDDVDs than my Toshiba HD-A35 and Sony BDP-S300. Perhaps the Oppos would be even better, but at <$100 the XDE-500 is a steal.

Do you have the picture enhancements turned on or off?

Lonely Surfer

11-13-08, 12:41 PM

He's on a crusade against this player. Seems to be a knowledgeable and nice guy other than his hate of this unit. Maybe the people who like the picture they are getting don't know how to search for flaws, or maybe we have bad eyesight, or maybe were just too dumb to grasp what he is trying to teach us. I like it a lot and am enjoying watching DVDs on it.

Yes, he's made a career on this thread. Like I said before, just let these people enjoy their players.

BMAG

11-13-08, 01:08 PM

Do you have the picture enhancements turned on or off?

I have experimented with sharp+color and sharp+contrast. They both look good and I do not see any "cartoonish" exaggeration with the enhanced color mode. My Panasonic AX-200 projector is in "Cinema 1" mode, contrast and color slightly boosted, and all other settings at factory default (zero).

GM6

11-14-08, 02:26 PM

Loved your Article in Home Theater, Josh

Automan

11-14-08, 04:19 PM

Any news yet from Toshiba re a fix so the player can display a 4:3 program the correct aspect ratio?

Automan.

Doug G

11-15-08, 10:36 AM

I wanted to follow up on a few issues/observations reported here with my own comments now that I've had a chance to get some first-hand viewing experience with them. I use the player in 24p mode for all film-based material (1080p/60 for video) and run HDMI video to an RS1x projecting at 104".

Earlier in this thread, Dave Vaughn reported that the DVD of Star Wars IV: A New Hope in 24p mode stuttered like crazy to the point of being unwatchable thereby forcing him to select the 60p mode. I took the opportunity last night to plop this disc in and critically view it after the kids were done watching Shrek. I watched the entire first hour and having done so can categorically refute everything that Dave reported. During the entire time I watched, there wasn't a single hiccup/stutter/slo-mo "artifact" present. Not one. All the wide shot pans, Star Destroyer flyovers, etc were completely clean. I have no idea what he was watching when he made these claims. Perhaps it was some compatibility issue with his display device, an HDMI issue, or damaged disc, or possibly even a bad review unit, but its just not there on my setup. Also, I was really impressed with the PQ. The minimal to no use of EE in the transfer made the use of the sharpness mode very effective. Sure there were some times a little minor ringing appeared but I felt with the sharpness mode turned off it was just a little on the soft side.

I also took out my new copy of T2:Extreme Edition and critically viewed about the first hour of this, as well. At first I thought this version was basically just the extended cut minus the DTS audio from the Ultimate Edition. As it turns out, this is actually a new transfer of the film from a 1080p/24 HD master. While perhaps not as egregious as the previous transfer from the T2:UE release, the use of some edge enhancement in this transfer was definitely visible and immediately apparent. The picture was still very crisp, although not overly so (i.e. with ringing), when viewed with the sharpness mode disabled. That said, I found the use of the sharpness mode to be detrimental to the PQ. Piling on, if you will. It did improve some scenes without too much adverse effect (close-ups mainly) but wider shots suffered. When I viewed the same scenes with the sharpness disabled, the picture was much more natural (although still not entirely "film like".) However, I will say that the shot shown earlier of the lettering on the police car door (from T2:UE) only showed this much ringing present with sharpness mode enabled - when I turned it off the ringing largely disappeared, so Artisan definitely reduced the amount of EE although hasn't completely eliminated it. Still, the low to moderate amount of EE present makes any additional enhancement, no matter how judiciously applied, unnecessary and somewhat harmful. I felt the PQ was perfectly acceptable with the sharpness mode disabled and every time I re-enabled it, I just ended up turning it back off a minute or two later.

EDIT: I just wanted to specifically note here that when I wrote my comments on T2:EE above, I was under the false impression it was just the same transfer from the UE version which I've since learned isn't the case. I've modified them only slightly to put them in the right context, the meat of what I wrote is still there. I'm somewhat relieved, actually! While watching, I was really wondering if others who'd commented about the really excessive EE just had their sharpness controls improperly set since the amount reported didn't seem consistent with what I was seeing! I would say if you own T2:UE you'd really benefit from picking up the EE version, particularly if you have a large screen where any kind of EE can be obvious. I found my copy at BJs for something like $5.99, a worthwhile investment even for those that already own the UE version.

As I said above, the kids and some friends wanted to watch Shrek earlier in the night so naturally I obliged and watched along with them. Here I noticed only a single instance of 24p stutter, right at a scene cut when Fiona is inside the small building after Donkey makes his way in looking for her. It only lasted perhaps a second and was no doubt due to a bad flag sequence.

-RONIN-

11-15-08, 12:01 PM

I have experimented with sharp+color and sharp+contrast. They both look good and I do not see any "cartoonish" exaggeration with the enhanced color mode. My Panasonic AX-200 projector is in "Cinema 1" mode, contrast and color slightly boosted, and all other settings at factory default (zero).

Sounds good, thanks for the reply and info.

MARTINIGUY

11-16-08, 02:13 AM

emthree

11-16-08, 08:29 AM

What setting am I missing? If I go into the menu I can add sharp only,when I add contrast the sharp goes off. When I use the remote I have to add sharp, then color then contrast. How are you people adding sharp+contrast without hitting color? What setting did I miss in the manual? Thanks

I don't own the player but this is my understanding:

From the setup menu, clicking 'off' turns off the XDE feature, although upscaling is still possible. In the 'on' mode, say when you click on sharp, 'sharp' is ALWAYS on. If you then click on 'color', you get Sharp+Color, and similarly, clicking on Contrast gets you Sharp+Contrast.

I am sure some one will correst me if i got it wrong.
:)

Doug G

11-16-08, 09:23 AM

What setting am I missing? If I go into the menu I can add sharp only,when I add contrast the sharp goes off. When I use the remote I have to add sharp, then color then contrast. How are you people adding sharp+contrast without hitting color? What setting did I miss in the manual? Thanks

The description on pg 32 of the manual could be seen as a bit ambiguous, so here's the insert included. Note the description of "Sharp" mode which clearly states its active for both Color and Contrast modes.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g286/dougandvikki/XDE_settings.jpg

MARTINIGUY

11-16-08, 01:02 PM

Thanks for the response, got it now.

briansxx

11-16-08, 06:11 PM

I have a number of home burned DVDs; all my DVD players seem to play them with no problems, but the XDE has real issues (sound and pic dropouts). Is anyone else having this problem?

Brian

jerryg25

11-16-08, 07:42 PM

My Toshibas all have trouble playing my burned dvds. I have three different models and they are all touchy about playing anything but good dvds. I play most of my burned dvds on my oppo 983 are my sony player they both play anything you put in them except the very worst dvds.

Robertoy

11-17-08, 03:52 AM

How XD-E500 plays DVD+R burned with booktype bitsetting as DVD-ROM?

Roberto

Robertoy

11-17-08, 03:53 AM

Toshiba XD-E500 $69.99

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2008/052/h052XDE500-F-1.jpeg

Price Range: $69.99 - $157.02 from 15 Sellers

http://electronics.pricegrabber.com/dvd-players/Toshiba-XD-E500-DVD-Player/m86798735.html

Roberto

lujan

11-17-08, 08:51 AM

Would you stop posting prices on this forum? It's depressing for those of us that paid MSRP. Besides that, I think it's against forum rules to post prices.

PooperScooper

11-17-08, 02:02 PM

In general we don't like posts strictly about pricing, mainly because AVS is supposed to be a technical discussion forum vs the billions of price shopping sites. The big reason we forbid price talk in some forums is because sponsors pay AVS money for advertising and posting prices and/or links for non-sponsors is not wise. :) However, wrt DVD players we don't strictly enforce the price because the sponsors don't sell the players and generally don't dwell on pricing here. Although I do agree posting the price of the day is going a little too far. It adds nothing to the discussion or reason why AVS is here.

larry

lemonde

11-17-08, 08:07 PM

So, as I've mentioned before, the Tosh XDE500 with my Tosh 46XF550U produces a ridiculously sharp and well contrasted picture. So I convinced my brother and law by two players. We put the same Star Wars in (A New Hope), and voila! It looked like crap on his Sammy 4681 (LED Backlight), with or without sharp setting, didn't help at all? Very strange, I should have switched for the other player to see if it was a technical issue or something. I put the Matrix II in last night into my own player, ridiculously upscaled/sharp picture, almost HD. I solved my DVD watching issue on an LCD, didn't solve his..

cjcali

11-18-08, 01:18 AM

Anyone have consistent problems playing back movies burned to dvd-r's? i keep having a few issues during playback, i.e weird pixelation, although the xde500 DOES play through it instead of freezing.

venejo

11-19-08, 12:05 AM

dsmith901

11-19-08, 10:57 AM

BMAG

11-19-08, 11:32 AM

Seems to me that results with any DVD player can vary depending on the video processing in the display. So the XDE500 may work great for some and not so great for others. The only way to know is to buy and try - just be sure you have return privileges.

I agree. To my eye the XDE500 produces a better image with SDDVDs than my Sony BDP-S300 Bluray player and my Toshiba HD-A35 HDDVD player (which itself has a well-deserved reputation as an excellent upconvertor) on my Panasonic AX-200U front projector (106" screen). Definitely worth the $98 it cost.

Automan

11-20-08, 05:32 AM

Any news yet from Toshiba re a fix so the player can display a 4:3 program the correct aspect ratio?

Automan.
As no response I emailed Toshiba....

I got a repsonse asking me to confirm which version of the firmware the player has loaded.

I don't think the players displays that data or if it does I assume it is hidden.

I have sent a reply asking how to find this info....

If it was not for the 4:3 issue it would be a fair player for £70.00

Automan.

briansxx

11-20-08, 07:14 AM

Anyone have consistent problems playing back movies burned to dvd-r's? i keep having a few issues during playback, i.e weird pixelation, although the xde500 DOES play through it instead of freezing.

I have problems playing any burned DVD on the XDE. All my players play my burned DVDs perfectly (including my picky A2), but the XDE freezes and pixellates. I'm not sure whether than means I have a faulty unit. I did have some stutters and dropouts on normal DVDs, but that problem seems to have resolved itself.

Brian

joed32

11-20-08, 08:23 AM

I have problems playing any burned DVD on the XDE. All my players play my burned DVDs perfectly (including my picky A2), but the XDE freezes and pixellates. I'm not sure whether than means I have a faulty unit. I did have some stutters and dropouts on normal DVDs, but that problem seems to have resolved itself.

Brian

I'm watching mostly burned DVDs on mine and they are fine, maybe it is your unit with the problem.

RaginCajun92

11-20-08, 12:28 PM

What is the consensus on the XDE for XA2 owners? Worth the purchase? I also have an Oppo 971H. Which of the 3 will give me the best upconversion quality? I've seen posts that go both ways (some like their XA2 better, others like the XDE better). The upconverting enhancement settings on the XA2 honestly don't seem to do much at least for me. I'm also a bit concerned about the buggy DVD+/-R playback that some have reported.

Thanks.

MARTINIGUY

11-20-08, 01:32 PM

gtaylor74

11-21-08, 12:56 AM

Ragin, Everyones setup is not the same. I had great results with the XDE on some discs and not so great on others so I talked to my dealer and he swapped it out for the pioneer 47 which so far seems better for my setup. At this price point why not just try one. By the way I do also have a XA-2 in my setup. Some movies looked better on the XDE than the XA-2, others did not.

I agree. I have an XA2, and tried out the XDE. At first, I really liked it. Then on several films I saw what looked like the old macroblocking bug the Faroudja 2300 chip used to have. The films were Vertigo and U-571. It was noticeable in all modes, but most easily seen in Color mode where it was really bad. I then dropped those titles into the XA2 and no issues what so ever. For me, I found the XA2 to be the better of the two as it presented a more filmlike image. I sent the XDE back. I was tempted to keep it considering the price, but once I saw the "macroblocking" on two different titles and the issue did not appear when playing on the XA2 or my old Panasonic RP82, that told me the player was doing some not so great things to the image, and my display (rear project CRT) tends to make those flaws very noticeable.

xiaoyu

11-23-08, 02:27 PM

How XD-E500 plays DVD+R burned with booktype bitsetting as DVD-ROM?

Roberto

I always choose DVD-ROM booktype when ever it's possibly for compatibility reason. The E-500 can play dvd+r, dvd-r and dvd+rw that I made backups from my dvd collections.

xiaoyu

11-23-08, 03:18 PM

Hi,

I think the gap between SD-DVD and BD-DVD is obvious, and the larger is the picture, the bigger is the gap. For the same sized screen, the gap depends on the up conversion quality of the SD-DVD players. E-500 was designed to reduce this gap, not for competing to BR. Some consumer have smaller TV who may feel very satisfied with E-500 without upgrade to BR.

My test is comparing E-500, OPPO971H (DCDi chip), Samsung BD-P2550 (HQV reon chip), Toshiba HD-D3 and DVDO HD up scaled 480i from old Toshiba. My front projector is Sharp DT-500 (1280X768). Screen size is 80"X45". Sitting distance was 13'. All sources were set to output 1080i. My test disc was HQV Benchmark v1.4

I will only list three tests that I could tell the differences between the sources.

1. Jagges Pattern 1, 2 and Flag: 971H and P2550 were the same. E-500 was just very closely behind (very small difference)

2. Film Detail: E-500 was better than all

3. Assorted Candences: E-500 was better than all

The image produced by E-500 was great and pleasant to watch. I am in favor to E-500 for any upscaling SD DVD player.

Xiaoyu,

emthree

11-23-08, 03:21 PM

lemonde

11-23-08, 07:19 PM

The XDE 500 is not a "final solution". It is a good intermediate solution between paying $100.00 for an excellent upscaling DVD player and waiting for full profile Blu Ray players to get to $199 MSRP. Any screen above 50 inches and I recommend BluRay. I have a 46" which is awesomely sharp at over 10 feet (more like 12 to 15 feet) but any closer and you want a BluRay.

What the XDE 500 does unbelievably, even if not sharp under 10 feet as the upscaled artifacts are present, is to boost the "watchability" of the TV. "Watchability" in my mind equals an amazing contrast boost.

dochollidayda

11-23-08, 07:30 PM

I just got my XD-E500 (was on sale at BBY and they had one OB, I asked how much and they gave it away for CAD$89.99 with HDMI cable). I played Gladiator for first 15 minutes and was very impressed with it. I like the contrast mode for that particular sequence. Visually it was better than my PS3 & Oppo 980H. I will have to play around it to form a concrete opinion but so far it looks good on my 46" Samsung.

Will be back soon with more test results.

Robertoy

11-25-08, 07:49 AM

XD-E500 in Australia

Toshiba Offers Free BigPond Movies

By Mike Wheeler | Monday | 24/11/2008

With the holiday season approaching, Toshiba and BigPond have joined forces to promote a deal where consumers will get one month free rental of BigPond movies when purchasing any Toshiba DVD player.

If you love watching DVDs but hate the hassle of getting them back to the shop, you can save yourself time and money (no late fees) by enjoying as many as you can watch for one month. Customers who purchase any Toshiba DVD player – including the new XD-E500 DVD upscaler, can now chose from a range of over 34,000 TV shows and movie titles that will be delivered to their home to watch and enjoy without ever having to leave the house.

Once ordered, the DVD will be delivered directly to the customer's letterbox. When it's time for a new one, customers return the DVD in the prepaid envelope provided and select the next title they wish to view.

Toshiba is also offering a free 12-month replacement warranty on all Toshiba DVD player purchases and a two year warranty on the Toshiba XD-E500 DVD Upscaler – available from today. The offer is valid until March 31, 2009.

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/HD/Blu_ray/X3H6Q2B2
http://dvd.bigpondmovies.com/

Roberto

Robertoy

11-25-08, 07:51 AM

January 2009 - Vol. 20 Issue 1

http://www.smartcomputing.com/images/SmartComputing/covers/S___2001a.jpg

http://www.smartcomputing.com/images/smartcomputing/fullsize/01627469.gif

Who Needs Blu-ray?
Toshiba Pushes DVD To The High-Def Brink

It’s been a blue year for Toshiba. The company threw in the towel to end the so-called format wars last March, making the HD DVD (high-definition digital video disc) obsolete overnight. As of press time, the company hasn’t jumped on the blue bandwagon with its own BD (Blu-ray Disc) players, which play the “winning” high-def format from its erstwhile rival, Sony.

Instead, Toshiba is still swinging at Blu-ray, just with the other fist. Its new $149 DVD player can upconvert existing movie collections to HDTV resolutions so well, the company doesn’t quite say, that it makes BD irrelevant. The new player is totally unrelated to HD DVD’s downfall, wink wink.

Head-To-Head

The “XDE” in the XD-E500’s name stands for “eXtended Detail Enhancement” (www.toshibaxde.com). When it’s connected to an HDTV using an HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) cable, the player can upconvert DVDs to 720p, 1080i, and 1080p resolutions.

In addition, the XD-E500 offers three optional picture modes (only available in 1080 resolution over an HDMI connection). Sharp is self-explanatory, adding definition to object edges. Color boosts blue and green hues. Contrast improves the level of detail in black and dark parts of the picture. The Color and Contrast modes both include Sharp mode.

I preferred the Contrast setting, and that’s the mode I used to compare the XD-E500 to an Oppo DV-981HD ($229; http://www.oppodigital.com). This respected DVD upconverter is based on Faroudja’s DCDi (Directional Correlation Deinterlacing) technology.

To compare picture quality, I needed a calibrated HDTV with a quality picture. Enter the Samsung LN-T4681F ($2,799.99; www.samsung.com), a 46-inch LED-backlit LCD with a gorgeous image (see page 14 of the June 2008 issue for a look at its 52-inch big brother). A few true 1080i network TV channels supplied the high-def content.

So is the XD-E500 a BD killer? Not really, but it comes as close as I’ve seen. There’s no substitute for more pixels than DVD, which BD delivers (along with DVD upconversion, usually), but the player does supply picture quality that’s hard to tell from true HD.

From “Lord of the Rings: Return of the King” to fine details in a calibration disc to the landscapes in a Toshiba demo DVD, the XD-E500 produced noticeably crisper detail than the Oppo. Fabric textures, tiled roofs, etc. looked very close to high-def. You would need true HD video to get any sharper.

Then again, the Toshiba pales next to the Oppo in several ways. It can’t automatically letterbox 4:3 full-screen video, so it only plays it in screen-filling stretch mode—a pet peeve of mine. I had to manually adjust the TV’s aspect ratio every time I switched between full-screen and widescreen DVDs. Also, the XD-E500 exhibited video artifacts during playback of SVCDs (Super Video CDs).

The audio situation was disappointing, too. The Toshiba’s analog audio outputs are limited to stereo (2-channel audio) Dolby Digital, albeit with an optional E.A.M. (Enhanced Audio Mode) 3D sound setting. If you want to listen to 5.1-channel surround sound and/or DTS (Digital Theater Systems) soundtracks, you have to hook up a suitable audio receiver to the XD-E500’s HDMI or coaxial or optical digital outputs. Finally, the Oppo’s more comprehensive settings lets you adjust “lip sync,” among other things.

Really, a tie for the Toshiba would have been as good as a win, as it costs $80 less than the Oppo. The XD-E500’s video upconversion technology is great, but minor quibbles keep the player from getting my full endorsement.

Then Again . . .

Should you consider a DVD upconverter? With prices just over $200, BD players that upconvert DVDs don’t cost much more than the XD-E500. Then again, those are low-end players with
limited audio format support, average DVD upscaling, and no Bonus View or BD-Live features.
While relatively advanced BD players still cost $399 and up, a good $149 DVD upconverter makes sense.

http://www.smartcomputing.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles%2f2009%2fs2001%2f03as01%2f03as0 1.asp&articleid=52291&guid=23709F865B28428F83F0406739ECBDA7
http://www.smartcomputing.com/editorial/toc.asp?guid=23709F865B28428F83F0406739ECBDA7&itype=Smart+Computing&vol=20&iss=1&ItypeID=3

Roberto

Doug G

11-25-08, 11:57 AM

dochollidayda

11-25-08, 01:21 PM

I have two PS3s which are excellent players and slowly I have been converting my must haves to BDs as they are released and given the fact that the transfers are good. Last night I watched Once Upon A Time in West using my new XD-E500 and believe me I was blown away as to how good it looked. I am about 12 feet away from my tv and the sharpness/color was just mind blowing far and beyond my Oppo 980H. I was shocked. In my opinion this player really put new life into my DVD collection. I will still continue to buy BDs for movies that I love and have a good transfer/remaster but I don't have to upgrade to ****** BD transfers like Terminator 2, where my DVD looks just as good.

XD-E500 is a must have player for those with a decent DVD library imo. Some love it alot and some don't..........to each their own. For me it works wonders and I will gladly recommend it to my friends.

Doug G

11-25-08, 03:12 PM

Right, I'm not saying its no good, actually my opinion is quite the contrary keeping in mind the effectiveness of the XDE is almost entirely dependent on the quality of the transfer. I'm a quite happy owner for nearly 6 months now. See my post a page or so back for elaboration on my points. However, for such an inexperienced reviewer to claim the PQ was nearly indistinguishable from HD and focus on such other non-issues (excluding the 4:3 issue, of course) does nothing except confuse things for people who are trying to get to the facts so they can make an informed decision.

dochollidayda

11-25-08, 04:08 PM

For me personally Hidef media not only offers improved video but vastly improved sound as well, and I am totally addicted to it. My siblings have seen the POTC trilogy many times on DVD and this weekend we were watching Curse of the Black Pearl on BD, my sister could not notice any difference and she was not being stubborn as she is a very reasonable and educated person with good eyes (her profession is marketing) while my brother spotted right away and said is that BD? and went on to say that its definitely 50% cleaner, sharper & detailed compared to DVD. But my sister did acknowledge after 15 minutes that sound was much bigger and one could clearly sense the direction it was coming from.

Now the point of conversation is that while XD-E500 might not hold a candle to nicely transferred high-def media, but for some like my sister nicely upscaled DVDs on 40-50" flat panels might be good enough and that group of people is satisfied with what they have got as they don't see a visual difference (which to me is pretty obvious). That to many has been the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD dilemma. When we went to DVDs (almost everyone) noticed a huge difference and added avantages, we can't say the same about DVD to BD. That's a topic of many discussions around the forums so no point in discussing it further. XD-E500 is definitely an awesome grade for those with good libraries and 4 year old DVD players and to be perfectly honest they might continue to be happily satisfied coz to them "its good enough".

Zinje

11-25-08, 10:37 PM

what kind of display do you have?

dsmith901

11-26-08, 09:38 AM

For me personally Hidef media not only offers improved video but vastly improved sound as well, and I am totally addicted to it.

I have to wonder about your conclusion on BD audio that directly conflicts with some experienced pros that conducted listening tests using the best rooms and equipment:

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueHD_DTS-MA_versus_Uncompressed_PCM

Maybe your room, equipment, experience and expertise is better?

Doug G

11-26-08, 10:27 AM

That's been the experience of a friend and fellow AVS member with a dedicated theater/listening room, as well. He was a 2ch audio buff before getting into video. His room is acoustically treated and his system is very high end - Meridian, Ariel, M&K. He recently received his Pioneer BD51 and had a custom modification done to add 6ch 96/24 digital outputs (SPDIF) so he could run then directly to his Meridian pre/pro. Well, it sounds great, but the jump over good quality DD and DTS wasn't as big as he anticipated. He found that the newer hi-res audio formats were now as dependent on mastering as the video is - that's to say that when done well they clearly sound superior, but the average or poorly done ones (which are most of them) have no appreciable difference for the most part.

dochollidayda

11-26-08, 01:39 PM

I have to wonder about your conclusion on BD audio that directly conflicts with some experienced pros that conducted listening tests using the best rooms and equipment:

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueHD_DTS-MA_versus_Uncompressed_PCM

Maybe your room, equipment, experience and expertise is better?

No, I am actually very naive when it comes to HT systems and have a pretty low end setup considering some of the setups folks on this forum have. As it says in the last line of that review, trust your ears, and believe me or not even with my next to nothing expertise I can tell huge difference between Dolby Digital and Uncompressed/TruHD etc.

dochollidayda

11-26-08, 01:40 PM

what kind of display do you have?

Its a Samsung TN4661.

Retch

11-26-08, 04:33 PM

New to forum and i have a quick question.

I have an infocus X1. Would this player give me any benefit over a pioneer 588A that i currently have? I know that i couldn't use upconversion over component but wondered if any of the other features would give me a better picture.

Robertoy

11-27-08, 12:27 PM

In Japan...

Toshiba SD-XDE1 (XD-E500) + HDD/HD-DVD Toshiba VARDIA RD-A600 (http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2007_06/pr1202.htm) + Blu-ray Panasonic DMR-BW200 (http://panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/official.data/data.dir/en060920-3/en060920-3.html).

http://img.kakaku.com/images/Review/000/002/2795_m.jpg

Note:
Toshiba VARDIA RD-A600 uses Anchor Bay solution for upscale:

An integrated high-performance 1080p compatible up-scaler from Anchor Bay Technologies, Inc., can up-convert standard definition DVD to an output resolution of 1080p, complementing the performance of an HDTV and allowing viewers to enjoy standard DVD in high picture quality.
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2007_06/pr1202.htm

Toshiba SD-XDE1 user comment:
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2995/sdxde1reviewid4.jpg
Japanese > English (http://translate.google.com.br/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Freview.kakaku.com%2Freview%2F202560 10583%2FReviewCD%3D169480%2F&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8)

+ user comments:
Japanese > English (http://translate.google.com.br/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.co.jp%2F%25E6%259D%25B1% 25E8%258A%259D-SD-XDE1-TOSHIBA-XDE%25E6%2590%25AD%25E8%25BC%2589%25E9%25AB%2598%25E7%2594%2 5BB%25E8%25B3%25AADVD%25E3%2583%2597%25E3%2583%25AC%25E3%258 3%25BC%25E3%2583%25A4%25E3%2583%25BC-HDMI%25E3%2582%25B1%25E3%2583%25BC%25E3%2583%2596%25E3%2583% 25AB%25E4%25BB%2598%2Fdp%2FB001GLVQ46%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1%3Fie%3D UTF8%26s%3Delectronics%26qid%3D1227803285%26sr%3D8-1&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8)

Roberto

Zinje

11-27-08, 01:13 PM

bzie

11-27-08, 09:01 PM

More to psychological. :p

Trust your ears, but don't let your eyes influence the ears. Do a blind test, ask someone to random change the sounds and you will hear no difference. :)

No, I am actually very naive when it comes to HT systems and have a pretty low end setup considering some of the setups folks on this forum have. As it says in the last line of that review, trust your ears, and believe me or not even with my next to nothing expertise I can tell huge difference between Dolby Digital and Uncompressed/TruHD etc.

robertc88

11-28-08, 08:19 AM

I'm sure curious and I'm sure it will be posted how this player does with TDK when the time comes.

RaginCajun92

11-28-08, 11:35 AM

Well... i took the leap and purchased one from amazon. I currently have the oppo 971 so hopefully i will see an improvement. Wife needs a dvd player in the room so if the XDE works great... the 971 has got to move.

Keep us posted on your findings! I too have the Oppo 971 and would like to see how the XDE compares before I purchase. Thanks!

xiaoyu

11-28-08, 06:44 PM

Which XDE mode of the 500 were you using? Or was it switched off?

TIA

The XDE was in Sharp mode.

xiaoyu

11-28-08, 07:00 PM

I heard a high frequency noise came from my steak of DVD players last night, and every player was switched off with AC connected. I found the noise was coming from XD-E500. I could hear it from 4 feet away. I am assuming this is from switching power supply. Has anyone heard it? Is this normal?

Xiaoyu,

dochollidayda

11-28-08, 10:16 PM

nyt

11-29-08, 03:04 AM

Automan

11-29-08, 08:06 AM

So let me get this straight, the "problems" with this player in the eyes of the "reviewer" are

1) lousy SVCD support, (GMAFB)
2) a player not advertised as having DVD-audio support having no DVD-audio support (huh?),
3) no native "lip-synch" correction requiring the use of the standard A/V sync available in ALL integrated digital receivers today,
4) inability to "letterbox" 4:3 full-screen video. (Uh, why would you want to do that?)

And before all this the author concludes that the PQ is "hard to tell from true HD." Well, only if you're legally blind, maybe. So what we have here is a "review" done by a bunch of computer geeks who obviously don't know the first thing about video as evidenced by their above "issues" and not even knowing that 4:3 video content is window-boxed to display properly on a widescreen display. Maybe they should stick to Pentiums and 3DMarks.

Its amateurish and inaccurate "reviews" like this which propagate misinformation and do nothing but fuel the whole good vs. evil all-or-nothing debate about this player. It amounts to nothing more than a literary drive-by IMO.

I have over 2,000 DVD and some of the older ones have have movies in a 2.35:1 aspect ratio but in a 4:3 frame (they were made this way because they date back to the era when 16:9 TV's were rare mainly I'm afraid mainly in the USA).

Also I have lots of TV programs, also in 4:3 on DVD which I understand are becoming popular in the USA, e.g the original Get Smart series.

None of these will display in the correct aspect ratio on this player due to this units inability to show a 4:3 frame in the correct aspect ratio.

My Toshiba HD-DVD EP35 player can, my PS3 can but this player with its current firmware can not.

I would of course view the items on the above machines but are both Region 2 locked devices :(

It is such a basic shortfall in this product and I cannot understand how Toshiba could have overlooked it seeing as they claim this is supposed to give your old DVD's a new lease of life.

Automan.

xiaoyu

11-29-08, 11:03 AM

I have over 2,000 DVD and some of the older ones have have movies in a 2.35:1 aspect ratio but in a 4:3 frame (they were made this way because they date back to the era when 16:9 TV's were rare mainly I'm afraid mainly in the USA).

Also I have lots of TV programs, also in 4:3 on DVD which I understand are becoming popular in the USA, e.g the original Get Smart series.

None of these will display in the correct aspect ratio on this player due to this units inability to show a 4:3 frame in the correct aspect ratio.

My Toshiba HD-DVD EP35 player can, my PS3 can but this player with its current firmware can not.

I would of course view the items on the above machines but are both Region 2 locked devices :(

It is such a basic shortfall in this product and I cannot understand how Toshiba could have overlooked it seeing as they claim this is supposed to give your old DVD's a new lease of life.

Automan.

The only way to display these discs properly is to turn off the enhance mode and set the output to 480p. IMO, the enhance mode may not improve the image quality much for these discs. This player was designed to make a well decoded anamorphic dvds look close to BR.

xiaoyu,

xiaoyu

11-29-08, 11:08 AM

The only noise that comes from my player is when its reading a disc. other than that, none...nada!!

The noise will disappear as soon as you turn it on. It only present when the player is in standby mode. Can you try again?

xiaoyu,

Mr. Audio

11-30-08, 01:43 AM

Hey all. I went to Circuit City today in hopes of picking up a Toshiba XDE player to try out to see if I like it. It was on sale for 100 bucks and I thought if it was good that I could actually keep it. Well I got there I they already had it setup for me with a movie playing. I don't know what movie was playing but they were playing the same movie a few tvs down from it in BD as a comparison. Not needing the comparison to the BD I could tell that the movie looked horrible. I mean it was really bad. So bad that it was almost unbelievable. I wasn't thinking of it at the time but just a few minutes ago I suspected foul play. Either the TV was tweaked or the movie in the XDE was a low resolution copy of the original in order to make the XDE look really bad and quickly turn people from it to sell the way more expensive BD players. I plan to go back tomorrow to investigate it further possibly with my own movie if not just pick one up to try on MY tv.

dochollidayda

11-30-08, 03:50 AM

The noise will disappear as soon as you turn it on. It only present when the player is in standby mode. Can you try again?

xiaoyu,

I did, i absolutely can't hear anything.

xiaoyu

11-30-08, 06:26 PM

I did, i absolutely can't hear anything.

Thanks for trying. I am going to call Toshiba tomorrow to see what is the problem.

Mr. Audio

11-30-08, 08:00 PM

Just picked up an XDE for 100 bucks. Circuit City had unhooked their XDE display but had left the player out and I checked the disk and it was legit. However their TV had to have been tweaked really bad with the sharpness all the way up. Anyway I grabbed one to try it out for myself.

My first impressions were kind of disappointing as I found that this player is not really feature rich by any means. The menu layout is very short and simple. It is very much a no frills kind if player and that's ok I guess because I used none of the extra crap my last player had and was disappointed with it's picture output after I saw some real HD movies on TV. I'm comparing my XDE to my Sony 75H player.

The truth is if you get this player, you need to make adjustments to your display for the best results. Many complain that their picture is overly sharp when the effects are turned on. If this is the case you need to turn your sharpness down on your display. It seams counter intuitive to do so at first but the XDE makes the picture sharp in all the right places as where your TV does not. If your TV is already set pretty sharp the picture will be too sharp where the XDE added it and you will get white halos around credits. What I did was turn my sharpness down until the halos vanished which ended up being 30 clicks down. I also boosted the color on my TV six clicks, turned my brightness down five clicks, put my gamma back to zero from one and everything came together.

The sharpness enhancement is effective and cleans the edges nicely unlike the sharpness or edge enhancement on any TV. The color enhancement seams to do well only with those movies that lack....well....color. Adding the color effect to a good modern movie will saturate the greens and the blues. The contrast effect was what sealed the deal for me. This effect is quite remarkable. Most modern movies benefit from this feature because besides lack of definition that SD DVD lacks there is the lack of brightness in dark scenes and evenness between brightness and contrast. You can try to compensate for this problem by cranking your brightness up or turning the contrast down. One makes the picture look cloudy while the other makes everything too dark to see. Even if you can adjust your gamma like I can, you still can't even get close to the precision of this player for it adjusts contrast where it is needed. The XDE simply evens it all out with the push of a button without effecting other aspects of picture quality. The contrast effect didn't seem effective on the older movie I played which was Ghostbusters. It darkened the picture. However Ghostbusters is one of those movies that lacks a lot in color, so I used the sharpness and color setting on it and it looks great.

So does it look like HD? IMO not at all. But it looks pretty damn good. If you're looking for added detail, you need BD. Just face it, you cannot add more detail to 480i. I found though that the major problem I had with SD was not the lack of detail, it was all the crap covering up the detail that is already there. The noise reduction is very good on this player even with no effects. The contrast adjustment is worth it's weight in gold and the other two effects are icing on the cake. Does the 400 dollar oppo look better? Maybe, and it better be by at least a little bit since it is 4 times the money. For 100 bucks, I don't know how you can go wrong with this player.

cjcali

11-30-08, 10:52 PM

rotanat

12-01-08, 03:08 PM

None of these will display in the correct aspect ratio on this player due to this units inability to show a 4:3 frame in the correct aspect ratio.

Well for me the easy fix is just to set the LCD screen to 4:3 - perfect 4:3 with all enhancements on :) Just Check if you have an aspect ratio selection on your TV.

lemonde

12-04-08, 07:04 PM

Any know if there's a big difference in xde picture quality with a 720p lcd rear projection 42" sony and say the new lg 47" 47lg70 1080p lcd? i currently have the xde and the sony and was wondering if the picture would be even better with the 1080p 47lg70 (which i'm thinking about getting). any comments would be much appreciated. :)

I read somewhere, on this form I think, that upconverting DVD players perform better on fixed pixel HDTV's vs projection TV. I can't remember why this was so but I know I read it here somewhere.

Zinje

12-04-08, 08:52 PM

what does it mean "Fixed Pixel" hdtv's?

Zinje

12-05-08, 02:59 AM

Just hooked up my XDE and calibrated using AVIA. DVD's look amazing! Never realized how soft the pictures were with the Oppo 970. The big plus about this player is the contrast mode. That setting really makes this player shine.

PooperScooper

12-05-08, 06:45 AM

what does it mean "Fixed Pixel" hdtv's?All digital HDTVs (LCD, plasma, DLP, LCOS, OLED) are "fixed pixel". Analog HDTVs (CRT based) don't have pixels.

larry

Zinje

12-05-08, 11:54 AM

I am really impressed with this machine. I tweaked it more and i am really amazed by the picture. Keep in mind that I had the oppo 970 to compare with.

xit2050

12-05-08, 01:28 PM

I tweaked it more and i am really amazed by the picture.

Could you elaborate?
What tweaks and does it really compare to the Oppo?

Zinje

12-05-08, 02:10 PM

The tweaks are from my display (pioneer plasma 6070) which match pretty well with the XDE player. Other than the presets on the XDE there are no video settings on that player. Wish i knew how to take pictures to compare.

For new members that have this player, it is important to calibrate to your display. I calibrated mine with the XDE contrast mode on.

evasive1

12-05-08, 02:40 PM

I promised I would reply with my impressions, so here I am.

I returned my XDE to BB yesterday without a hitch. The only question they asked is if it still worked, and if I wanted to exchange it for another product.

My answers were, "It works perfectly." and "No, thank you. I just got a PS3, so this is simply being replaced."

My circumstances may be unique, but I doubt it. I found a used PS3 on eBay for an incredible deal with the (at the time) 30% live.com cashback + 10% eBay holiday discount. Let's just say I got a perfectly working 80GB PS3 Motorstorm edition, for less than half price. After that, this decision was basically a no brainer. Overall the XD-E500 is a good piece of equipment for the money right now. If your only intent is to watch Standard DVDs, and you have NO OTHER upconverted means to do so, or you have NO OTHER intentions to purchase a blu-ray player in the near future (which generally upconverts too), then yes, The XD-E500 is a good buy. It does deliver a noticeably sharpened image. My only complaint is that sometimes, the image on screen would seem too sharpened, to the point where I would rather have watched the film with the sharp setting turned off, which made it like any other upconverting device. With the prices of blu-ray players continuing to decline, I think it will only be a matter of time until the XD-E500 loses its value. Even today I think it's fair to question whether the XD-E500 is "worth" it. The only way to be sure, is go buy one, test it for yourself. My personal opinion is that the benefits the XDE produces is not significant enough to warrant using it over any other upconverter, assuming value is important criteria. In other words, I'm completely okay with my PS3 (or even my Samsung DLP 750 series) handling the upconversion of standard def movies, while I slowly (and I mean SLOWLY) begin to build up my blu-ray collection.

To each his own.

jerry22m

12-05-08, 05:55 PM

xiaoyu

12-05-08, 07:15 PM

How can I set my XDE500 to output either 480 or 720p. Going to the 500s menu both 480 and 720 are blocked out. Using the remote I can only scroll between 1080i and 1080p. Your help sincerely appreciated.

It's on the owner's manual. You need to turn off the enhance mode before going to 480P

Xiaoyu,

Mr. Audio

12-06-08, 02:04 AM

Ok, I've had this player for almost a whole week now and have stayed up late every night since then playing with it and testing it to see if I wanna keep it. This is my full review.
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This player has tons of drawbacks and one amazing quality that caused me to overlook them all.
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First the drawbacks.

1. This is a very very simple player with absolutely no frills. No fine tuning picture adjustments and no noise reduction options of any kind, extremely plain and dull graphic interfaces, a very very short options menu, and no movie time readout on the front panel.

2. The remote is a complete abomination. It is definitely one of the worst button layouts I've ever seen topped only by Denon's receiver remotes and almost impossible to operate the player seamlessly without looking at what button your finger is on.

3. All the enhancement combinations are all powerful and have no adjustment of intensity. Consequently the added enhancements stack right on top of your TVs settings which is often times is very bad and enhances everything you don't want to see.

4. The player remembers the last point in which you stopped a movie if you need to stop it for any reason, but it will lose that memory point if the player is turned off. Not a giant deal, but my other player not only remembers the last point of the currently loaded disc the next morning, it remembers the last point of when I stopped it on many other discs.

5. The zoom feature is totally useless. TOTALLY. If you wanna see more detail, walk up closer to the screen, that would actually be more effective than this button. The player does such a poor job blowing up the picture that it looks like your TV screen fogged up. I am not exaggerating.

6. The player does not display 4:3 ratio material correctly. It displays all 4:3 ratio in 16:9 which means the picture is stretched horizontally automatically. Some TVs have the ability to display "normal 4:3 mode" in high def but mine does not since it shouldn't really have to anyway since high def is native at 16:9. So if you have a lot of full screen material like seasons of Friends or Everybody Loves Raymond that are all full screen format, it will all be stretched horizontally. If you're ok with that then you're good. There is no setting to change this as noted in the operators manual.

7. The enhancements that attempt to bring your picture closer to HD DO NOT WORK ON 720P OR 480P! Since the only way to watch full screen on most HDTVs with this player is to knock the resolution down to standard def and choose the "normal" screen setting, your full screen material will not be upconverted nor will it be enhanced. Nobody says I hate people who watch full screen material like Toshiba does here. And you people who have 720P sets, you're gonna have to set this player to 1080i then your TV will have to dumb it back down to 720P. Updown-conversion, not what I had in mind. My TV is a tube so it does 1080i natively so this is no big deal for me.

8. This player DOES NOT fool your eyes into thinking you're watching Bluray. It has moments when it comes close on movies with already very good SD quality like any Star Wars movie. Movies like Kill Bill vol.2 look better, but at no moment does it even look close to the bluray version.

I told you there were a ton of drawbacks, now for the good stuff.

1. The up-converted picture with no enhancements on actually looks very good.

2. The player has zero delay in between layer switching which is great because even a short pause to switch the layer in a less conspicuous part in the movie is still very annoying and I'm surprised that the engineers at Toshiba threw this in when they were busy gettin' high while designing the rest of this player.

3. The grand daddy of all reasons I kept this thing. Believe it or not, the enhancements. Here is how it works. Press the picture enhance button once, the player adds sharpness. Press it again and it adds sharpness plus color. Press it again and it removes the color enhancement and replaces it with contrast. When the enhancements are on, sharpness is always on. This is where many people look away in disgust and can't get this player back into the box fast enough to go back to the store. I'll break away and come back to that thought in a minute though to explain how this player enhances the picture.

The player examines frames to come before they are displayed on your TV screen. In then figures out where the picture needs to be sharpened and adds sharpness to only the pixels that it feels need it. As bad as the rest of the player was designed, you'd think that this feature would not work well at all but it works quite amazingly. The "sharpness + color" mode adds color primarily to the blues and the greens by the same method it adds sharpness. The "sharpness + contrast" mode adds contrast the same way. These enhancements are NOT the same as your TV's sharpness, color, or contrast adjustments for your TV adds these to the entire screen as where the XDE500 strategically adds not to the whole picture, but at the pixel level for every single frame. The sharpness enhancement is NOT the same as "Edge Enhancement" on your TV for the exact same reasons plus it enhances the sharpness with no nasty side effects that edge enhancement has.

So back to why some people wanna take this thing back and pretend like they never even bought it. The reason is that most people when they get a new TV is they adjust all the picture settings contrast, brightness, color, hue, sharpness, etc. until it looks good to them. What happens is when they hook this player up and turn the powerful enhancements on, their picture in which the sharpness had already been optimized for the last player becomes super super sharp and looks like garbage. The same happens with the color or contrast enhancements. An almost fatal flaw is that you cannot just use the contrast or color adjustment if you want to for sharp mode is on all the time unless all enhancements are turned off. Plus again there is no way to lower the amount of the effects of any of the enhancements.

So how do you pull a fantastic picture out of this player? You adjust your TV to compensate for the added enhancements. I pulled the sharpness down on my TV from 70 to 33. You may ask, "Won't doing that negate the enhancements?" No. What you're doing is getting your TVs rather sloppy method of adding sharpness out of the way and letting the XDE500 add it with frame by frame, pixel by pixel precision. The same goes for the color or the contrast. You will have to adjust these, but not nearly to the extent as the sharpness will need adjustment. I adjusted my contrast down from 55 to 50 and brightness from 70 to 63. The end result is stunning. I chose the sharpness + contrast combination because many SD DVDs suffer greatly from extreme contrast issues where you have bright and dark and nothing in between (Transformers). With a click of a button it takes care of that frame by frame and does an amazing job. On DVDs and/or scenes that suffer less from contrast imbalances or not at all, it adds little to nothing. The color enhancement I think is the most useless out of the three options for the contrast does much greater things for the picture quality than the color does. The contrast enhancement is worth it's weight in gold. All together this adjusting the TV method works so well that I zoom the picture (using my TV zoom button) to get rid of the black bars on my 34 inch TV and the picture still looks fantastic blown up. A 34 inch screen with no bars on the top and bottom equals a pretty big display.

For people who can't adjust their picture settings independently for each input on their TV, the method used above will not work and you should not buy this player unless you like all your other inputs to look foggy and a little too dark.

The bottom line is that this player shines and makes SD look as great as it can be when used in this manner. Many average joe users will think the overly sharp and saturated colors will look good regardless of the obvious artifacts on the screen. Heck most average users never had a high def signal going to their 50 inch HDTV and still think it looks good. To these people this machine will be as advertised as one-button magic. Most hardcore videophiles and HT enthusiasts will hate this player for the reasons explained above. They will also hate Toshiba for the extremely misleading marketing of this machine as a one-button magically turns SD into Bluray machine. Objective people like me will see the player as a tool that can be used together with the TV's adjustment tools to achieve a stunning picture beyond that of a player that simply up-converts the resolution alone. The picture at times will drop your jaw and that to me is totally worth the 100 bucks I paid since regular old SD hardly ever causes my jaw to drop unless the picture is really really bad which actually has happened.

Perhaps if this player does well enough Toshiba will bring out a better player with this technology that was designed by somebody who had at least a half a brain.

joed32

12-06-08, 09:09 AM

Thanks for the long review. I am not a videophile but I am watching movies with this unit on a 1080i TV and a 720p set. I have to set the Toshiba to "auto" to get the sharpness function to work on the 720p but it does work and looks good. Also I didn't turn my TV settings way down the way you did because I have a lot of DVRs going into the same input but I still think the player looks great, I use 5 DVD players all together but the XD-E500 is my favorite by far.

lujan

12-06-08, 11:22 AM

I also can't change the TV's settings because not only do I have the XD-E500, but also a Panasonic Blu-ray player as well as a Toshiba HD-DVD player, all connected to the same TV HDMI input via an Onkyo 905.

Zinje

12-06-08, 12:00 PM

So how do you pull a fantastic picture out of this player? You adjust your TV to compensate for the added enhancements. I pulled the sharpness down on my TV from 70 to 33. You may ask, "Won't doing that negate the enhancements?" No. What you're doing is getting your TVs rather sloppy method of adding sharpness out of the way and letting the XDE500 add it with frame by frame, pixel by pixel precision. The same goes for the color or the contrast. You will have to adjust these, but not nearly to the extent as the sharpness will need adjustment. I adjusted my contrast down from 55 to 50 and brightness from 70 to 63. The end result is stunning. I chose the sharpness + contrast combination because many SD DVDs suffer greatly from extreme contrast issues where you have bright and dark and nothing in between (Transformers). With a click of a button it takes care of that frame by frame and does an amazing job. On DVDs and/or scenes that suffer less from contrast imbalances or not at all, it adds little to nothing. The color enhancement I think is the most useless out of the three options for the contrast does much greater things for the picture quality than the color does. The contrast enhancement is worth it's weight in gold. All together this adjusting the TV method works so well that I zoom the picture (using my TV zoom button) to get rid of the black bars on my 34 inch TV and the picture still looks fantastic blown up. A 34 inch screen with no bars on the top and bottom equals a pretty big display.

For people who can't adjust their picture settings independently for each input on their TV, the method used above will not work and you should not buy this player unless you like all your other inputs to look foggy and a little too dark.

I totally agree with you! You need to calibrate as you would any other player. I had to lower my settings as well and the picture turned out great. You know what I also found that works well with my player/tv combo are the NR settings in my tv. I know there are enthusiast that don't even like to touch these settings but I can honestly say it made a huge difference. When i touched the NR settings with my oppo it was horrible but the effect with the XDE was opposite.

.

Mr. Audio

12-06-08, 12:49 PM

You know what I also found that works well with my player/tv combo are the NR settings in my tv. I know there are enthusiast that don't even like to touch these settings but I can honestly say it made a huge difference. When i touched the NR settings with my oppo it was horrible but the effect with the XDE was opposite.

.

My TV is obviously not as advanced to have NR right on the menu. I say experiment with and pile it on when you have the extra tools if it makes it look better to you. SD needs all the help it can get IMO.

Mr. Audio

12-06-08, 01:46 PM

I want to add to my extremely long review for those who would want to know how fair I was to my Sony 75H player while testing the XDE against it. While testing the Sony I gave it every advantage I could because after all I didn't want to waste my money if my Sony could pull of the same picture for free. I jacked the TV's sharpness up to 90! I added brightness and contrast through the DVDs picture adjustments. I added no NR from the DVD menus because they both produce visible side effects. To be completely honest the picture didn't look bad after I was done. The blackest blacks were a tad bit too light due to adding the brightness but nothing really intrusive. Even blowing up the picture to remove the black bars the Sony did a pretty good job. I was kind of torn at this moment because I thought the Sony looked that good. By the way the movie I used in testing was Batman Begins which has good picture quality to begin with and many scenes with different kinds of lighting. I made my judgments using both static and moving images. So I went back the the XDE. I adjusted the TV back to optimize the XDE and found while the differences that the XDE made were sometimes subtle, overall it made the picture look really good in a way the Sony simply could not. The main details I noticed is when I zoomed the picture to remove the black bars is that I didn't feel like I was looking at a zoomed picture as I did with the Sony. Using a static image on a Dr. Crane close up I found what was making that difference. The XDE was able to brighten and sharpen very very small details like around irises of eyes and skin textures with zero added artifacts. While on my 34 inch screen in black bar mode these added details were not apparent simply because my image was not big enough to tell, but were definitely noticeable zoomed. The XDE removed the overly soft look of SD. Now I understand that many arguments have been made in this thread that the Oppo 980 which is in a whole different price class that the Oppo has a softer, much more natural "film-like" image. This is totally absurd. I've been to the theater and IMAX theaters enough to know that movie films are anything but soft and smooth. IMAX films are some of the most detailed and clear movies I've ever seen. When zoomed the Sony not only lacked the sharpness in the fine details but also lacked the dynamics of how bright the small details were which gave it that "soft" more "film-like" look.:rolleyes: The better phrase for film-like is zero-dynamics. Film-like is like saying "I like low quality compared to high quality mp3s because the high frequencies in the quality mp3s hurt my ears on long and loud listening sessions. I prefer "soft" highs." I think I've made my point. People who say that a 40 dollar DVD player can do the same as this player does are delusional and quite possibly in denial about paying triple the cost for a SD player that can't do the same as this much cheaper player does. Because even from a technical standpoint the XDE enhances at the pixel level and anyone who took the time to look and with half a brain can clearly see that it does exactly that and 40 dollar player doesn't do it and neither does the Oppo. Who cares if the technology isn't brand new and has been used in other products. LCD was being used in many other applications decades before it came to televisions. In the world of audio it's not what you buy that makes good sound, it's how you use what you have to make all the components work together with each other to produce great sound even with mid-fi to low-fi components. Video is no different.

Star56

12-07-08, 12:32 AM

Mr. Audio

12-07-08, 12:49 AM

The enhancements DO work with 720P. Your #7 point is incorrect.

A quote from my post of a few months ago

"The manual states that the Pic modes will not work with 720P and 480P. At first this appeared to be correct...set the mode to Sharp and 480p/720p will not illuminate...only 1080i/1080p.

BUT I discovered a way around it. If you set the resolution mode to Auto...and connect it to a 768 panel....it outputs 720p AND the pic modes work. I have found that 720P is superior to everything else for 768
(not intuitive..downscaling from 1080i can produce good results with other machines)"

No, point 7 was correct. It does not work when the player upscales to 720P. Auto simply upscales to 1080i and your TV down-converts it to 720P. All TVs can accept 1080i, but still must convert back to native resolution. Is it a huge deal? Maybe not. Still the traditional school of thought is to upscale to the native resolution of the display. Who knows, they may have had to write a whole different set of rules for the picture enhancement interpolation at a lower resolution.

Josh Z

12-07-08, 11:26 AM

Mr. Audio

12-07-08, 07:39 PM

Wouldn't it be simpler for you to just calibrate your TV to set the sharpness at the correct null point, with neither any sharpening or softening? By over-processing the picture the way you have, you destroy real detail in the picture and can't get it back.

Josh you speak as if have actually took the time to investigate what this machine actually does. You also speak as if you read my review posts. It is apparent that you did neither of those. I spent too much time researching and writing those reviews just to have to type it all out for you a second time. Your posts are not objective at all. You wanna tell everyone how much the player sucks and challenge everyone that likes what the player does to go out and by a 40 dollar DVD player and play with it's picture settings until the picture quality comparable of the XDE is achieved. Guess what wise guy, it won't happen. If you read my review, you would have seen I was using a very respectable 100 dollar DVD player that had an abundance of picture EQ settings and I gave that player more than a fair shake.

If you have already decided that you don't like the player, fine. Hate it and buy an Oppo like the majority does. There are people who seek out more than one way to skin a cat. Along that journey it may be discovered that not only is there another way to skin a cat, but also a better way. In other words Josh, you'll continue to do things by the book and buy the "best" components according to what you've read, put them all together and say "Well, that's the best. It doesn't really look that good but they say that's as good as it gets. I'll just get a Bluray player and sell my DVD player and collection for next to nothing and by all my movies on Bluray." While I'll be using my rather unorthodox methods and say "Well this player does about half of what Toshiba says it does. Let me see if it helps when I adjust this. Wow, that's a stunning picture. I can actually stand to look at my DVD collection again." I spent a lot less money and happy with what I have while you're breaking the bank selling all your stuff at a huge loss and stuck with the few movies you were able to buy with what was left after you counted all your losses and purchased a player that in a few months will drop in price 100 bucks. YAY!! I have BLURAY!! I can't wait to go to Ballbuster and pay 6 bucks to rent Star Wars to see how it looks and sounds. Oh wait, there is no Star Wars on Bluray. Oops.

Zinje

12-07-08, 10:43 PM

My oppo 970 is an awesome player but the XDE is even better for MY setup. I would have to hate the guru's sit and watch on my system wondering how may processes are running just for me to get that great pictures i am getting :)

HiFiFun

12-08-08, 02:34 AM

lemonde

12-08-08, 05:25 AM

Round and round and round we go....

One day I will buy Blu-Ray, likely when the players have hit $100 bucks, and likely when Toshiba gets into the Blu-Ray game. For now I have an XDE500 that upconverts to close to HD quality while viewing from a reasonable distance on a 46" HDTV. It's the sharpness and the contrast that provide the punch here, the machine makes DVD's watchable again on our large screeen HDTV's.

mystery

12-08-08, 09:27 AM

...the machine makes DVD's watchable again on our large screeen HDTV's.

Bingo!! :cool:

Wayne

xit2050

12-08-08, 09:56 AM

the machine makes DVD's watchable again on our large screeen HDTV's.

And on a 42" plasma (compared to a Sony NS77H upscaling player for example)?
I ask because the Sony does a good job one some movies (the more recent ones I believe), but poorly on others.
Last night I watched Commando (Schwarzie) again and the image wasn't very good, to say the least.

Josh Z

12-08-08, 10:31 AM

Josh you speak as if have actually took the time to investigate what this machine actually does. You also speak as if you read my review posts. It is apparent that you did neither of those. I spent too much time researching and writing those reviews just to have to type it all out for you a second time. Your posts are not objective at all. You wanna tell everyone how much the player sucks and challenge everyone that likes what the player does to go out and by a 40 dollar DVD player and play with it's picture settings until the picture quality comparable of the XDE is achieved. Guess what wise guy, it won't happen. If you read my review, you would have seen I was using a very respectable 100 dollar DVD player that had an abundance of picture EQ settings and I gave that player more than a fair shake.

If you have already decided that you don't like the player, fine. Hate it and buy an Oppo like the majority does. There are people who seek out more than one way to skin a cat. Along that journey it may be discovered that not only is there another way to skin a cat, but also a better way. In other words Josh, you'll continue to do things by the book and buy the "best" components according to what you've read, put them all together and say "Well, that's the best. It doesn't really look that good but they say that's as good as it gets. I'll just get a Bluray player and sell my DVD player and collection for next to nothing and by all my movies on Bluray." While I'll be using my rather unorthodox methods and say "Well this player does about half of what Toshiba says it does. Let me see if it helps when I adjust this. Wow, that's a stunning picture. I can actually stand to look at my DVD collection again." I spent a lot less money and happy with what I have while you're breaking the bank selling all your stuff at a huge loss and stuck with the few movies you were able to buy with what was left after you counted all your losses and purchased a player that in a few months will drop in price 100 bucks. YAY!! I have BLURAY!! I can't wait to go to Ballbuster and pay 6 bucks to rent Star Wars to see how it looks and sounds. Oh wait, there is no Star Wars on Bluray. Oops.

That's a lot of words you've written to completely avoid answering my question. Do you honestly believe that over-sharpening and then over-softening a video image is better than just having a non-processed image to start with?