XD-E500 Owners thread. [Text View] - Page 7

Mr. Audio

12-09-08, 08:53 PM

Again I will point out that over-sharpening a video image (which this player indisputably does) and then attempting to compensate by oversoftening it at the display only serves to destroy real picture detail. Once that detail is gone, you can't get it back.

Again you have no actual proof. Those who have experimented with this player have found this not to be the case. The people who have calibrated their displays for this machine are not biased. I don't think they wanna waste their money anymore than you do. This player was not designed well enough to be picked up by videophiles because all they do is compare products head to head with exact same settings for each player which would seem like the best way. Normally it is. The XDE lost miserably to any DVD player (even the cheap ones) with the enhancements turned on because they are comparing the XDE with their other player's TV settings. Instead of seeing what would happen if you turned the sharpness down on the display they said "Nope, it sucks like I thought it would." That sucks for them. Because they would have discovered by doing so that the player coupled with some modified TV adjustments could produce a stunning picture past traditional resolution up-scaling done even from the finest of DVD players. The player by itself sucks. Without the aid of some TV adjustments this player is easily not worth picking up. When the TV and XDE work together however, the end result will blow away your Oppo hands down. The Oppo can't look as clear, the Oppo also cannot add contrast the way this machine does even if you use the TV's or Oppo's adjustments to help make the picture sharper and brighter.

lemonde

12-09-08, 10:21 PM

jsmiddleton4

12-10-08, 08:18 AM

"Those who have experimented with this player have found this not to be the case."

Sorry but I just told you I experimented with this player and found Josh's opinion and conclusions to be the case.

There seems to be some selective use of information to support one's opinion rather than taking all the information into consideration.

If you like your Toshiba DVD player, that is great. It appears to me that the defending going on is way more than the objective evaluation of this player.

And IF a player advertises itself to be close to high def, then why would a person who is interested in high def NOT check it out?

Too many of these posts have moved off the subject, the post, and to the poster like the post that wonders why Josh would post here. What does that have to do with the unit itself? Clearly an attempt to dismiss Josh.

So boys lets stop this okay?

Jim

Mr. Audio

12-10-08, 10:11 AM

1. This is a very very simple player with absolutely no frills. No fine tuning picture adjustments and no noise reduction options of any kind, extremely plain and dull graphic interfaces, a very very short options menu, and no movie time readout on the front panel.

2. The remote is a complete abomination. It is definitely one of the worst button layouts I've ever seen topped only by Denon's receiver remotes and almost impossible to operate the player seamlessly without looking at what button your finger is on.

3. All the enhancement combinations are all powerful and have no adjustment of intensity. Consequently the added enhancements stack right on top of your TVs settings which is often times is very bad and enhances everything you don't want to see.

4. The player remembers the last point in which you stopped a movie if you need to stop it for any reason, but it will lose that memory point if the player is turned off. Not a giant deal, but my other player not only remembers the last point of the currently loaded disc the next morning, it remembers the last point of when I stopped it on many other discs.

5. The zoom feature is totally useless. TOTALLY. If you wanna see more detail, walk up closer to the screen, that would actually be more effective than this button. The player does such a poor job blowing up the picture that it looks like your TV screen fogged up. I am not exaggerating.

6. The player does not display 4:3 ratio material correctly. It displays all 4:3 ratio in 16:9 which means the picture is stretched horizontally automatically. Some TVs have the ability to display "normal 4:3 mode" in high def but mine does not since it shouldn't really have to anyway since high def is native at 16:9. So if you have a lot of full screen material like seasons of Friends or Everybody Loves Raymond that are all full screen format, it will all be stretched horizontally. If you're ok with that then you're good. There is no setting to change this as noted in the operators manual.

7. The enhancements that attempt to bring your picture closer to HD DO NOT WORK ON 720P OR 480P! Since the only way to watch full screen on most HDTVs with this player is to knock the resolution down to standard def and choose the "normal" screen setting, your full screen material will not be upconverted nor will it be enhanced. Nobody says I hate people who watch full screen material like Toshiba does here. And you people who have 720P sets, you're gonna have to set this player to 1080i then your TV will have to dumb it back down to 720P. Updown-conversion, not what I had in mind. My TV is a tube so it does 1080i natively so this is no big deal for me.

8. This player DOES NOT fool your eyes into thinking you're watching Bluray. It has moments when it comes close on movies with already very good SD quality like any Star Wars movie. Movies like Kill Bill vol.2 look better, but at no moment does it even look close to the bluray version.

The player by itself sucks. Without the aid of some TV adjustments this player is easily not worth picking up.

These are all quotes from me jsmiddleton4 and they are more than objective. Most of my review is devastating to this player's case. The player is downright terrible and certainly does none of the things it claims it can do. I don't know how much clearer and meaner I can get. All that the ones who keep it are saying that there is a way that you can get a much better picture overall by using the few abilities it does have. Yes it should have adjustments for the enhancements, it should display 4:3 correctly, it should have a lot more options for picture quality adjustments. In the end, I'm not interested in specifications. I'm interested in getting a better picture be it that I make adjustments somewhere else in my system to make my picture better, that is what I do. Every single one of my video inputs on my TV have very different picture settings that optimize the picture for each component hooked to that input since no component puts out the exact same picture as another. For people who cannot do that, this trick will not work. That's what this really is, a trick. A trick that works. Toshiba deserves zero credit for it since this trick should have been built into the player itself and should not need the aid of any other component. But it does. And there is no other player right now that has the tools that the XDE does with proper implementation. If there was I would have bought that one for sure. Let's be clear that the Toshiba is a very poorly designed machine and does nothing of what it promises. This player is not for the plug and play user. It is downright awful. I don't think I can get any clearer than that.

Josh Z

12-10-08, 10:55 AM

The player is downright terrible and certainly does none of the things it claims it can do. I don't know how much clearer and meaner I can get.

This player is not for the plug and play user. It is downright awful. I don't think I can get any clearer than that.

We seem to be in complete agreement on these points. So why are you arguing with me in other posts? :confused:

Josh Z

12-10-08, 11:01 AM

What I find interesting Josh is that you actually hang around a DVD thread and post replies for what clearly is an inferior format to you in the first place (and in your mind an inferior player). With your apparent superior knowledge of picture quality, isn't your time better spent posting to Blu-Ray threads?

This is a discussion forum. We come here to discuss things. This is the "XD-E500 Owner's thread". As an XD-E500 owner, it seems like this would be the place to come to discuss the player.

I'd really like to know how close you sit to your screen to see all this stuff. DVD's are not meant to be viewed anywhere near as close as Blu-Rays. If you are reviewing the player from 5 feet then I agree with you. If you are reviewing the player from 10 feet then I do not agree with you. At 10 feet, the XDE looks like HDTV to me.

As noted several times previously in this thread, I sit 1.5 screen widths away from my screen.

jsmiddleton4

12-10-08, 11:14 AM

Ok boys, just get to it I guess.

bruceames

12-10-08, 11:43 AM

These are all quotes from me jsmiddleton4 and they are more than objective. Most of my review is devastating to this player's case. The player is downright terrible and certainly does none of the things it claims it can do. I don't know how much clearer and meaner I can get. All that the ones who keep it are saying that there is a way that you can get a much better picture overall by using the few abilities it does have. Yes it should have adjustments for the enhancements, it should display 4:3 correctly, it should have a lot more options for picture quality adjustments. In the end, I'm not interested in specifications. I'm interested in getting a better picture be it that I make adjustments somewhere else in my system to make my picture better, that is what I do. Every single one of my video inputs on my TV have very different picture settings that optimize the picture for each component hooked to that input since no component puts out the exact same picture as another. For people who cannot do that, this trick will not work. That's what this really is, a trick. A trick that works. Toshiba deserves zero credit for it since this trick should have been built into the player itself and should not need the aid of any other component. But it does. And there is no other player right now that has the tools that the XDE does with proper implementation. If there was I would have bought that one for sure. Let's be clear that the Toshiba is a very poorly designed machine and does nothing of what it promises. This player is not for the plug and play user. It is downright awful. I don't think I can get any clearer than that.

Very clear and well said, sir.

Mr. Audio

12-10-08, 01:13 PM

We seem to be in complete agreement on these points. So why are you arguing with me in other posts? :confused:

We have always agreed apparently that this machine is substandard. However I guess I have not been able to separate the subject of the quality of this machine and the subject of the trick I've used until now. I thought I did that in my review by show the wide array of negatives this thing has, but I guess I wasn't clear enough. That's ok.

This trick was mentioned by another AVSer on this thread, but it almost seemed like they were making excuses for the Toshiba by saying calibrate your display for the player which could have been taken as and was blaming the display instead of the player. What I said is that the player is terrible but you can use it's very few abilities in conjunction with the TV's settings to produce something more beautiful than a standard good quality up-converter alone. After all isn't that what we want is a better picture. Most who really care about it will get it through any means possible whether it is spending more money for the product that gives it, or a simple unorthodox method that gives it. People who don't tinker with their stuff need the player that does it all. I'm keeping my XDE because I seriously doubt that Toshiba is coming out with a player that was designed correctly because Blu ray is making it's big push right now and studios like Warner are giving SD an extra little push out the door by making SD DVD look worse than ever. If you don't believe me, compare The Dark Knight with Batman Begins. The picture quality is night and day.

FuneralDancer

12-11-08, 07:16 AM

Does anyone know how the XDE upconverting matches up against the HD-A30? I barely got an A30 (for $70!) the other day to replace my A3, and was curious how they match up, same, or?

joed32

12-11-08, 09:20 AM

I don't assume anything. I know it's not because I've seen it with my own eyes.

I think it's very clear here that your definition of "good picture quality" is far removed from my own.

That is true with many of us, we disagree with the definition of good picture quality. Can't we let it go at that? You keep pounding away at people but that won't change their minds. Just agree to disagree. It's nothing against you personally if they happen to like this player.

xiaoyu

12-12-08, 08:36 PM

Does anyone know how the XDE upconverting matches up against the HD-A30? I barely got an A30 (for $70!) the other day to replace my A3, and was curious how they match up, same, or?

Does A30 use HQV chip? I compared E-500 with Samsung P-2550, which also has HQV chip. The test result is on the first post of page 49.

Xiaoyu,

jerryg25

12-13-08, 09:50 AM

the a30 and a35 use the abt chip

PooperScooper

12-14-08, 09:45 AM

the a30 and a35 use the abt chipYes, but only the scaling chip. Not for deinterlacing of SD DVDs.

larry

cyberball

12-15-08, 03:56 PM

hello im from portugal and i bought the toshiba E500 to connected with an lcd 42lg7000, but i have a problem, and i hope that someone can help me, when i press the menu button and select 1080p in the video configuration, the image goes away and the television show a "no signal" message on the screen and the player stop to work, only the off button and open/close button work, what can i do ???
Thanks (im sorry about the poor english)

greeno

12-15-08, 04:07 PM

keep pressing the resolution button on the remote, until you get a picture again. You're probably outputting a resolution the display doesn't support.

jeff

dochollidayda

12-15-08, 05:08 PM

keep pressing the resolution button on the remote, until you get a picture again. You're probably outputting a resolution the display doesn't support.

jeff

Seems like LG7000 is 1080p capable so that should not be the problem.

My questions would be
1) what kinda connection are you using?
2) how long did you wait for when it goes blank? some tvs go blank for a upto 30 seconds and then the display refreshes itself with the new resolution. if the monitor cant support the resolution, the original resolution will be displayed again.

cyberball

12-19-08, 05:43 AM

im using a hdmi cable, my lcd is full hd supports 1080p its one of the latest models made by lg, i have no image at 1080p but it works at 1080i. i've waited more than 30 sec and the resolution don't turn back to the previous setting.
thanks for all your help

Robertoy

12-23-08, 11:49 AM

Heavy Gear
February 2009 • Vol.9 Issue 2
Page(s) 32 in print issue

Toshiba XD-E500

XD-E500
$149
Toshiba
www.tacp.toshiba.com
CPUs: 3.5

Specs: HDMI, component video, S-Video, composite video, 2-channel analog audio, optical and coaxial digital audio outputs; 24p playback

Toshiba dropped its support for HD DVD nearly a year ago, grudgingly conceding that BD is the de facto high-def optical disc format in much of the world. Still, the company hasn’t exactly embraced Sony’s format quite yet.

The XD-E500 is Toshiba’s budget thrust at Blu-ray’s expensive heart. It’s a firmware-upgradeable, upconverting DVD player with extra downstream processing options that take users’ existing DVD collections to within a few whiskers of high-def quality.

In 1080p mode over HDMI, you can select among the XD-E500’s special XDE (eXtended Detail Enhancement) picture modes. Sharp adds edge definition but doesn’t bother trying to sharpen out-of-focus background objects. Color (which includes Sharp) boosts blues and greens. Contrast (which also incorporates Sharp and gave us the best picture quality) makes details pop in dark scenes.

On an LED-backlit Samsung LN-T4681F HDTV, the XD-E500’s smart detail enhancement produced a noticeably sharper picture than did a $229 Oppo DV-981HD with Faroudja’s DCDi (Directional Correlation Deinterlacing) upscaling. It even held its own against a BD version of “Corpse Bride,” played by a $299.99 Samsung BD-P1500, although only at a normal viewing distance: The illusion rapidly unravels the closer you sit to the screen.

The difference between the XD-E500 and the BD-P1500 was most noticeable around the letters of the opening credits and the edges of stop-motion animated objects. The live-action DVD and BD versions of “X-Men: The Last Stand” looked extremely similar in these two players.

The Toshiba’s drawbacks include SVCD video artifacts; a lack of DTS decoding; and an inability to letterbox 4:3 content at all, let alone automatically, as can the Oppo. The lack of surround-sound analog outputs may irk some users, too, and there’s no HDMI cable in the box. Still, you’ll have to spend nearly twice as much (and buy BDs) to get a disc player with a sharper picture.

by Marty Sems
http://www.computerpoweruser.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles%2Farchive%2Fc0902%2F15a02%2F15a 02.asp&articleid=52287

Roberto

GrahamD

12-23-08, 01:46 PM

joed32

12-24-08, 09:17 AM

Hope ypu can get your coax to work but if you can't look for an optical switch. They are manual and run about $7 last time I got one. Makes one optical input into three.

GrahamD

12-24-08, 10:45 AM

I did think of that, but the player isn't functioning properly I probably ought to return it.

joed32

12-25-08, 09:48 AM

I know this is a dumb question but are you sure you are selecting the right input? I make that mistake frequently.

GrahamD

12-25-08, 04:40 PM

I know this is a dumb question but are you sure you are selecting the right input? I make that mistake frequently.
Knowing my capacity for dumbness, I checked several times, although in fact the lead was already plugged in from my previous DVD player which worked perfectly.

mtavares

12-26-08, 09:54 PM

I don't have a spare optical input on my surround amp and can't get anything out of the coax output in either PCM or Bitstream mode. Is there a setting somewhere to enable coax as opposed to optical that I'm not aware of?

GrahamD,

We have the same limitations you mentioned above. However, we are using the coax output without any problem. We set the digital output to Bitstream and it is working properly. Probably you have a failed coax output.

Happy New Year,

Marcos

Q.J.A

popimp

12-26-08, 11:58 PM

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned so forgive me if it has. The XDE-500 is on sale on Amazon.com for $79.98 with free shipping. It is also on sale at AAFES for $79.

lujan

12-27-08, 11:26 AM

Just a short mention that I saw "Hollowman" last night and the picture was so close to HD, I was utterly amazed at the picture produced by the XD-E500.

finsterfoo

12-27-08, 10:06 PM

With every disc I play after about 15-20 minutes the picture shifts to the left about 15% and the cutoff area on the left appears on the right.

I correct it by either cycling through the player's HDMI modes (any other mode corrects it) or by selecting a different HDMI channel on my TV and then switching back. I need to correct it one time per film.

I have contacted Toshiba. Apparently they are not aware of the issue. I even have a Toshiba TV!

My tv does 720p, but I use the 1080p mode on the player so that I can use the sharp mode.

Anyone else have this problem?

moparfan

12-27-08, 10:43 PM

As a former owner of a XA2 and a current owner of an Oppo 983, I have to say the xde-500 is a screaming bargain. It is at least as good as the other players on my normal netflix fare. On good dvds, they really do look like high def cable at least - the only thing is that it doesn't have compression artifacts that my cablevision feed has a lot of times so I actually prefers the upconverted dvds. maybe this says more about the ****** high-def that cable puts out.

If you have the xa2 or the 983 they're good enough so I wouldn't feel compelled to buy a 500 if you have need of their superior cadence handling deinterlacing (so I hear), but maybe you would be interested in monetizing these premium players to buy a xde-500. I am considering selling the oppo. I feel I am fairly particular about these things but this player is pretty damn good, especially for the price.

42-9uk viewed at 9 feet.

joed32

12-28-08, 09:01 AM

GrahamD

12-28-08, 03:38 PM

GrahamD,

We have the same limitations you mentioned above. However, we are using the coax output without any problem. We set the digital output to Bitstream and it is working properly. Probably you have a failed coax output.

Happy New Year,

Marcos

Q.J.A
I swapped it for another one today and all seems well.

Mr. Audio

12-28-08, 06:05 PM

I have a question about this player's reliability factor. As most on this thread know I love this player as my reviews have shown. I have had problems with it in the last week or so with having random picture freezing. The power supply also yields a high pitch whine when the unit is off. I could put up with the high pitch whine if I knew that it was harmless. However knowing that power supply whining is normally not a good thing I'm more apt to think of it as a ticking time bomb. The picture freezing was what caused me to return it today just before the 30 day return policy was up because I don't wanna be stuck dealing with Toshiba and paying shipping to send it to them. I badly wanted to pick up another one because I love the picture it puts out, but if it's gonna break within a few months I don't want it. The reviews on Circuit City's site aren't much help since most write those reviews as soon as they buy the products. I know on this forum there are people that have had this player for a while. I just wanna know if I have a good chance on getting a good one the second or even third time around because there were enough reviews on CC's site that said that theirs broke within a month's time.

lujan

12-28-08, 07:20 PM

Doug G

12-29-08, 09:18 AM

+1

Had mine since first day they were available and between movie viewing and the kids watching their videos on the regular TV its been trouble-free for me thus far. I did have a couple instances of the picture shift problem which I reported to Toshiba but only initially while I was jumping around chapters while QC'ing my new RS1x. I also had a few momentary video freeze issues (audio would also drop, about 1-2 seconds worth) but haven't experienced this recently, either.

I received the latest Indiana Jones DVD for Xmas and it was another testament to the garbage in, garbage out nature of this player. This is a very well mastered disc with no detectable EE (that I could see anyway) and the picture was darn natural looking with sharp mode enabled. The only thing I noted was some ringing and macro-block enhancement around the lettering in the opening credits, not a big deal. The picture still looked very film like and had far better perceived definition with sharp mode enabled. Same went for the 3D version of Journey to the Center of the Earth, although admittedly its much harder to detect ringing with the 3D glasses on. However, some other movies were just unwatcheable with sharp mode enabled, so again its a title by title type of thing.

The only titles I've had deinterlacing issues with thus far were very old titles, mastered in the late 90s. The worst offender by far I've seen is the 2-disc DTS version of Dances with Wolves. The flagging is so bad in some areas that its necessary to disable 24fps mode to get a tolerable picture. But for any newer titles I've not had any significant issues beyond a single fleeting stutter at a bad edit point which the non-trained eyes in my family miss altogether anyway.

OTOH, my wife did register a complaint about the lack of program memory as the kids tend to watch parts of DVDs and want to continue later.

G.M.

12-29-08, 11:40 AM

1. I don't know if this will help resolve any of the most recently posted items but I mention this as a source of general information that may help others.

2. My XDE-500 is approximately two-months old. About midway thru playing a disc a totally distorted picture displayed on the screem; the sound was not affected but the picture was!

To confirm the problem I tried several other DVD's with the same results.

I tried a new HDMI cable; no success.

I played these same DVD's on two other players (Tosh A2, Pio BDP-05) with no problem so the XDE-500 was guilty (as charged...:eek:)

3. I went to the Tosh website to determine how to seek a replacement player. In the process of doing this I first diverted to the problem FAQ's and found the following response to one of the questions listed:

"If the problem persists with another disc as well, and both discs are in good condition, then try unplugging the unit from the wall and plugging it back in again (removing all power to reset the internal circuits)".I followed this instruction and it worked and no problem since...

4. This procedure has also worked to solve cable box (SA-8300 DVR) problems on several occasions in the past(it reboots the system) and it may work for other audio/video gear as well.

5. Here's the link to the FAQ's:

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/customersupport/knowledgecenter.asp?prodCats=2

-George (not the one in the jungle...)

Joseph B

12-29-08, 04:46 PM

My XDE-500 has started "stuttering" on the second layer of a few dual layer discs. The problem is most noticeable on the new "Mamma Mia" DVD and the "Romancing the Stone" SE. I haven't had this problem on any other discs. The two titles play flawlessly on all my other DVD players. I tried unplugging the unit from the wall (as suggested above); but the two titles mentioned above still glitch when the second layer begins.

What's weird is that I've played about 90 DVDs on this player since I've owned it and I've only had problems with just these two discs. Just for the heck of it, I tried dropping the resolution all the way down to 480p just to see if that would make a difference and it didn't.

I still feel that this player needs a firmware update; and hopefully Toshiba will release one for it in the very near future.

jerryg25

12-29-08, 05:11 PM

I have had the xde for a few months now and i thought i would give a follow up opinion of the unit compared to hd and the 983 and xa2. I have a 50 inch sony rptv and sit about 12 feet away. Since i have small screen compared to the pj sizes i do not see alot of the problems that big screen users see. I have two sd movies that i have hd copies of so i viewed the hd first then the sd to get a reference for my eyeballs. In pq with hd being a 10 i would rate the xde at a 9.5 in viewing experience. The 983 and xa2 at a 9.3. The bells and whistles of the xde is a 2 and the 983 a 10 and the xa2 a 9. The biggest things about the xde is no resume unless you stop and start in less than 20 minutes, no auto 4:3 and the biggest is iffy play back of homemade disks. I have found only 1 factorly disk it will not play right and all my other players have no problem with it, but burned disk it does not do well with no matter the media maker. Surprisingly the disk that it has trouble with play ok on the xa2 made by Toshiba. If i had alot of homemade dvds and no other player i would not get the xde. But just for picture wow it is great and if all you want to do is play a store bought movie i would get it. I have had no player associated problems with the player. If Toshiba was to fix the few flaws this player has i have no doubt it would then be a great player and with the picture it does play i would never ever pay twice as much for a dvd to get very little difference in pq on hd. If i had a large screen pj then it might be different but for the smaller screen i would not even consider buying an hd movie.

Mr. Audio

12-30-08, 12:32 AM

Ok so I went a day without the XDE and I tried my absolute best to get my Sony NS75H player to look close or as good. My Sony has proven reliability and cool features like correct 4:3 ratio :rolleyes: and multi disc resume. Plus it costs me nothing if I don't buy another XDE.

I tried every trick in the book. The brightness adjustment on the Sony did a great job of brightening the picture overall without making blacks gray and I set it with the THX optimizer. The massive problem was that the brightness in bright scenes washed the picture out and there was almost depth in the contrast. Plus it did a great job brightening up all the digital noise. The sharpness enhancement was brutal. Even using the same technique that I used on the XDE by turning down the sharpness on my set, everything still looked wiry and fake. So I turned off the sharpness enhancement and just jacked the TVs sharpness to 70. This didn't look that bad. I turned the contrast up on my set a little and turned on the black level enhancement on the Sony to get some depth between all the cloudy brightness. It looked ok it seamed. I watched and I watched and I watched until my eyeballs were thoroughly cooked and I was dead tired. It actually looked really good to me by the end of the night. I was positive that I was not going to get another XDE. I get home from work today and fire my system up and pop in The Matrix. IT LOOKED LIKE TOTAL ASS!!! Everything was cloudy bright and so I quickly adjusted the brightness back down and I was again left with no contrast and now no brightness and detail in dark scenes. Not to mention the picture had a real nice and soft "FILM LIKE" look to it.

So I went to CC tonight and picked up another XDE and BAMM!! The picture was gorgeous again. You XDE haters can take your expensive upconverting players with your smooth and soft "film like" images and stick it. There is no player that can do what this thing does. I went a whole day without the XDE and stayed up till 3 in the morning adjusting, examining, and testing with a regular upconverter that has all those coveted picture adjustments that all other players have including the cheap ones that are said to be the same as what the XDE does. Wrong wrong wrong. What this thing does is nothing short of incredible.

Trihard

12-30-08, 12:44 AM

Please help...

After reading some great review about the xde 500 i bought it yesterday being i have manyyyy dvd's a 720p 50 inch panasoninc plasma and bad eyes where i dont know if I would reallly notice a big enough difference to switch over to BR. So i hooked everything up and was very pleased with the player. About 4 movies in playing around with funtions I thought i would try somthing animated, so i put in the new box set of family guy i bought today aswell. it started up find but the pq looked kindda bad so i was playing around with the hdmi button and wham no picture. sooo I read through of trying to unplug the player , and pressing the progresive but and yadda yadda but all it will do is when i turn on the play it say's loading then 4 - - - - will appear and thats it it will do nothing else???? I have been plying around for hours and am so annoyied. Any suggestions??

thanks.

Doug G

12-30-08, 10:14 AM

Watched the animated SW:The Clone Wars with the kids last night and it looked very good with sharp mode enabled. Only one or two times did I detect any kind of noticeable noise enhancement, but it still wasn't what I'd call obvious.

After I put the kids to bed I pulled out my new re-mastered copy of Braveheart that I recently bought to replace my copy of the original transfer which was quite poorly done. I have to say that the new transfer is absolutely stunning and superbly done! Again, here the sharp mode was very effective at enhancing the perceived resolution without adding any excessive EE. The only time I really noticed any was during a few of the shots in with the dark mountains in the background against a light sky, there was some mild ringing where they met. I didn't replay the scenes with sharp mode disabled but when I've noticed similar issues in the past and done this they've always still been obvious, just to a lesser extent. If you own the original transfer of this movie trust me the re-master is well worth the $15. I donated my old copy to the local library!

SD DVD certainly has its limitations, especially at my screen size of 104", but I'm constantly impressed with how well the sharp mode works with a good quality transfer.

FuneralDancer

12-30-08, 02:50 PM

jurid001

12-31-08, 12:49 PM

So I went to CC tonight and picked up another XDE and BAMM!!

Glad you're back on track with XDE! That little player is certainly nothing short of wonder. I have made a comparison among my fleet of players [some of them sold], and in terms of SD quality, the pecking order was XDE>A30=PanaBD35>OPPO970>A2=Onkyo405>Philips5982. General rule - the higher bitrate - the further XDE pulls away from the rest of the pack. With some transfers XDE is simply amazing: I picked up Crank in Hong Kong with bitrates above 9 Mb/s in most of the movie: and I can easily fool a layman that she watches an HD movie on my 46" LCD.

P.S. Little whining noise when off seems to be normal. When I power it up the noise stops. I think several people commented on it.

airgreek

12-31-08, 03:54 PM

I picked up this player a few days ago and boy is it the best DVD player I have ever owned

FuneralDancer

01-01-09, 06:12 AM

can anyone reply to my question? would be much appreciated ;)

PooperScooper

01-01-09, 07:45 AM

Has anyone here had any motion blur when trying to watch PAL discs?? Especially when playin on 24FPS... I also sometimes get blur with regular dvds, I thought it might be the HDMI, but might be the player? PAL is 25fps. The only way to get 24fps is to drop a frame every second. Something has to go... :)

larry

QuiGonJosh

01-01-09, 08:38 AM

I have the Pioneer 410V and am very happy with the picture on my Panasonic plasma. Some discs really do look like HD to my eyes. Examples would be Starship Troopers: Superbit, Resident Evil: Superbit, Batman Begins, and a few others. I'm interested in the XD-E500. Looking into the player, I had one of the salesman at Circuit City hook the player up to the plasma I own to see what kind of picture I could get from my TV. Even after adjusting the TV close to my sets settings, the picture looked terrible. I mean, VHS bad. He was using an HDMI cable and had the player at 1080p and yet, it looked atrocious. Turning the "sharp" mode off yielded a better picture, but it didn't come close to my Pioneer at all, in any way shape or form. The disc being used was the original The Mummy (99) disc. I know the DVD is no longer reference quality, but it's not a bad looking disc by any stretch. But reading the positive comments from others, I'm still curious and am wondering if anyone else has compared the Pioneer to the Toshiba and if so, what did you think of the quality between the two? Thank you in advance.

joed32

01-01-09, 09:33 AM

lujan

01-01-09, 12:53 PM

jurid001

01-01-09, 01:08 PM

The only thing that I don't like about this player is the fact that it doesn't correctly display 1.33:1 movies.

seems to be a minor problem: use your TV to adjust aspect ratio, that's what i do with both of mine.

jurid001

01-01-09, 01:12 PM

The power supply also yields a high pitch whine when the unit is off.

Mr. Audio, are you still getting the whine with your new unit?

Mr. Audio

01-01-09, 02:20 PM

No. I swapped it twice already. The second one had a strange magenta color fluctuation at the 1080i resolution. I started a new thread to possibly find out what causes this because this is the third time I've seen this on other components I've had and it's only at 1080i. That wasn't a big deal at all to me because I had to swap out my Sony 75H player for another one when I first got it for the exact same problem and that one has never done it. Anyway, this new XDE is good so far. No whine and no color problems and still looks beautiful.

TorontoDoug

01-01-09, 03:49 PM

I bought one about a month ago. It replaces a Sony upscaling DVP-NS70H which I've had for a couple of years and was performing OK. I have a 56" Toshiba 1080p DLP and sit about 8-9 feet away.

I have had zero problems. I use it with Contrast on. Most of the time I view burned DVDs and those have been fine (if you're having trouble with that, the likely problem is crappy media). The picture is first rate, better than the Sony. I'd say it compares favourably to broadcast HD. I don't have Bluray to compare it to, but I'm rather more interested in having the best possible DVD picture, to view a large collection of DVDs that I will not be replacing with HD.

So I'm resoundingly 'thumbs up' for this device.

FuneralDancer

01-02-09, 08:06 AM

PAL is 25fps. The only way to get 24fps is to drop a frame every second. Something has to go... :)

larry

Spanx for the info, larry! :) very much appreciated ;)

billthomson

01-02-09, 01:17 PM

I'm thinking about getting an XDE500, to connect to a 42" 720P plasma. But after reading the posts here I'm still trying to figure out if the image enhancements will work or not, or if they are only supported for 1080P. The current price on these seems almost as low as a really low end upconverter, but I want to make sure it will really provide improved picture quality. Unfortunately the good price here (canada) is for ordering direct from toshiba, so my normal approach of just trying it isn't as easy.

jurid001

01-02-09, 02:16 PM

I'm thinking about getting an XDE500, to connect to a 42" 720P plasma. But after reading the posts here I'm still trying to figure out if the image enhancements will work or not, or if they are only supported for 1080P.

usually 720P sets accept 1080i or even 1080p signals [newer ones]. Try feeding at least 1080i if your set can accept it. In my experience with XDE, 1080i should be quite good.

billthomson

01-02-09, 03:38 PM

usually 720P sets accept 1080i or even 1080p signals [newer ones]. Try feeding at least 1080i if your set can accept it. In my experience with XDE, 1080i should be quite good.

Well, the TV is so new that it isn't scheduled to arrive until next week :) I know the TV will take a 1080i in, so one way or another the XDE should work. Went ahead with the order from Toshiba, their pricing in Canada is at the point where I'd bet they are about to release a new model...

joed32

01-03-09, 08:33 AM

Well, the TV is so new that it isn't scheduled to arrive until next week :) I know the TV will take a 1080i in, so one way or another the XDE should work. Went ahead with the order from Toshiba, their pricing in Canada is at the point where I'd bet they are about to release a new model...

Just set the player up in the "auto" mode rather than 1080i or 1080p or 720p. All of the settings will work.

jurid001

01-03-09, 03:12 PM

Just set the player up in the "auto" mode rather than 1080i or 1080p or 720p. All of the settings will work.

His question was whether XDE is tuned to work best at 1080p setting. It maybe true to some extent but 1080i setting should be OK as well.

joed32

01-04-09, 09:11 AM

His question was whether XDE is tuned to work best at 1080p setting. It maybe true to some extent but 1080i setting should be OK as well.

it does work well at 1080i, very well.

Blacklac

01-04-09, 02:31 PM

The only thing that I don't like about this player is the fact that it doesn't correctly display 1.33:1 movies. I could have sworn another poster a while back had said that if you change the resolution to 480p, it would correctly display a full screen movie but I tried that and it still stretched the picture.

I think that would depend on what TV you have. On my display, if you send a 480p resolution, my TV always stretches to fill the screen. Some might not.

airgreek

01-04-09, 05:56 PM

I am not sure why the XDE has not received positive reviews from everyone. I paid $80 for mine and I LOVE it. I did recently purchase the Oppo DV-983H so I am anxious to compare the two. I hope the Oppo is worth the price I paid for it.

HiFiFun

01-04-09, 05:57 PM

Thanks go to all members who have posted. We all share a common desire to improve and maximize the value of our existing DVD collections during this great recession.
It sure is nice to see the industry sponsored lobbying effort here end in failure. The countless first-hand testimony from many members is too much to simply keep calling everyone else an idiot. Talk about alienating your own magazines readers! :p

Here is a link not to be missed (as usual the British press out-scoops the American rags):

World Exclusive:
Toshiba on the future of XDE DVD upscaling tech, next-gen kit plans revealed

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/features/the+future+of+XDE+revealed

jayray

01-04-09, 09:32 PM

Does anyone know if any firmware updates have or will be released? Can they even be done with this player.
John

DD210

01-05-09, 01:02 AM

Please confirm the following:
(1) The XDE does not have the ability to shadowbox 4:3 content.
(2) The XDE does not allow you to customize the video output. (Color, hue, black, chroma, etc.)
One question:
When you calibrate your TV's display using the calibration content on one DVD, should that calibration work for all DVDs or does the color/contrast/brightness rendition vary from DVD to DVD?

joed32

01-05-09, 08:35 AM

Robertoy

01-05-09, 11:44 AM

Tom´s Hardware Russia Toshiba XD-E500 review

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/7351/xdeae7.jpgSummary of the article: The player XD-E500 Toshiba offers a good view of old DVD at the highest quality on your TV. The idea is good, because many homes there is an extensive collection of movie DVD, and spend money on Blu-ray ready, not all. With the company's technology XDE, Toshiba offers the player a new improvement in the image and scaling it up to 1080p format with support for 24p. As far as player XD-E500 convince us? This will explain in our review.

Toshiba XD-E500: best DVD-player in the world
Dmitry Chekanov, December 23, 2008

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/8389/xde2ny3.jpg

Advantages.

* Support for 1080p and 24p;
* The availability of HDMI.

Disadvantages.

* Confusing menu system;
* Not the most ergonomic remote control.

http://www.thg.ru/video/toshiba_xd-e500/index.html
Russian > English (http://translate.google.com.br/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thg.ru%2Fvideo%2Ftoshiba_xd-e500%2Findex.html&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8)

Roberto

PooperScooper

01-05-09, 01:10 PM

When you calibrate your TV's display using the calibration content on one DVD, should that calibration work for all DVDs or does the color/contrast/brightness rendition vary from DVD to DVD? Yes. The calibration disc is "mastered" using the same standards that DVDs are supposed to use. I'm not talking about the THX patterns contained on some DVDs, there's been issues with them in the past. I talking about discs like Avia, Digital Video Essentials, etc. However, if you calibrate using one of these discs, using the XDE 500 features that changes the video (color/contrast) defeats the purpose of calibration. It all depends what you want.

larry

lujan

01-06-09, 08:29 AM

I just had trouble with the XD-E500 and the movie "Jurassic Park The Lost World". It kept pixilizing and then would skip several minutes ahead on the movie. I removed and cleaned the disk and tried it again and it did the same thing. This started at around chapter 7 of the movie. I then proceeded to put the disk into my Toshiba A35 and the movie played just fine. Would someone with a copy of the movie try it on their E500 and report back? I noticed this disk had some writing on the part of the disk that is read by the players but I don't know if this could be the problem.

emthree

01-06-09, 08:55 AM

lujan

01-06-09, 08:57 AM

Have you tried if it happens with both XDE feature engaged and switched off?

No, but I can try it next time. Thanks

emthree

01-06-09, 12:51 PM

No, but I can try it next time. Thanks

Thanks. It will be interesting to see if pixelation a 'function' of the XDE technology or a fault in the player itself; in which case it should happen with XDE switched off, too.

Doug G

01-06-09, 02:08 PM

Here is a link not to be missed (as usual the British press out-scoops the American rags):

World Exclusive:
Toshiba on the future of XDE DVD upscaling tech, next-gen kit plans revealed

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/features/the+future+of+XDE+revealed

Well, I don't know that this talks about a next-gen player, its really just a cost reduction to compete with falling BD player prices.

As for the pictures, that first bunch isn't exactly a shining example of the what the XDE can do. Actually, it IS a great example of the limitations of the technology. Look at the archway and dome along with the vertical utility poles in the upper left section of the image, its rife with some pretty objectionable ringing. Granted these images are enlarged, but the ringing is still slightly visible even in the raw SD image, its just much less noticeable. SD DVD has its limits, folks! Dark objects against a light background (like the sky) are some of the worst offenders of ringing for EE and the XDE is no exception. This is a great example of the need to reduce the sharpness control on your display to mitigate some of the over aggressiveness of the algorithm. The nice thing is that in my experience this doesn't noticeably compromise the perceived detail and the effect on the more uniform areas of the screen can be very effective. And for all you nay-sayers out there who say this is just the same old uniform EE used in other players, take a look at the wires running between the poles and note how these DO NOT exhibit any kind of ringing or EE whatsoever. Case closed.

Now the second picture with the road and trees is a reference illustration of how effective the XDE technology can be, and also that (at least IMO) the effect is enabled just a bit too strongly. Look at the detail in the trees. Look at how there's no ringing or EE present in the branches which extend into the skyline. Outstanding. That said, I do find that even this example seems a little over-enhanced and a bit digital looking. As someone who strives for the most natural looking picture (call it "film like" if you must) I find that turning the display sharpness control down slightly retains most of the enhancement while doing away with the overly-digital look seen here. But as I've said before the effectiveness of XDE is almost entirely dependent on the source material and needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis for best "watchability".

What I'm really looking forward to is hopefully seeing Toshiba releasing a new SRT enabled player. (I was hoping this article was about just that, oh well.) If they can make it as feature rich as the later HD-DVD players while keeping cost at or below current BD prices and improving on the XDEs output, they'll have a juggernaut player on their hands.

Or even better all of that with BD support! It would truly be the one-and-only DVD player to have. I'd buy one in a heartbeat!

HiDef4Life

01-07-09, 12:24 PM

Doug G

01-07-09, 02:46 PM

I just had trouble with the XD-E500 and the movie "Jurassic Park The Lost World". It kept pixelizing and then would skip several minutes ahead on the movie. I removed and cleaned the disk and tried it again and it did the same thing. This started at around chapter 7 of the movie. I then proceeded to put the disk into my Toshiba A35 and the movie played just fine. Would someone with a copy of the movie try it on their E500 and report back? I noticed this disk had some writing on the part of the disk that is read by the players but I don't know if this could be the problem.

I just popped in my DTS version of this disc and watched all of chapter 7 and the first part of chapter 8, no pixelation or skipping that I saw.

There should be no writing on the read (bottom) side of the disc except for usually on the hub where mfr info appears but this is not on a readable portion of the disc anyway.

jurid001

01-07-09, 04:11 PM

Don't listen to the schills here that are bashing the XDE 500. I own one attached to a Panasonic PTAE 500 at 92 inches and the picture produced is incredible. I am so upset with a certain XDE-basher here that I will NOT RENEW my subscription with Home Theater Magazine.

Bottomline: this unit delivers what it promises and more!

Good point. My subscription to HTM hasn't ran out yet, and I will think what to do with it later. But that certain reviewer should have been more adept in watching 4:3 movies - just change TV aspect ratio, man!

lujan

01-07-09, 04:55 PM

I just popped in my DTS version of this disc and watched all of chapter 7 and the first part of chapter 8, no pixelation or skipping that I saw.

There should be no writing on the read (bottom) side of the disc except for usually on the hub where mfr info appears but this is not on a readable portion of the disc anyway.

Thanks, I'll have to test the movie again soon.

Daffy

01-07-09, 06:14 PM

Help!!!

Just received my unit a little while ago and was able to get marginal picture for about 60 seconds then nothing but sound. Unit would not let me stop DVD, would not allow me to skip.

The picture was marginal at best so I assumed it was because it was not set on 1080i or 1080u. OK, I admit I did not look at the manual at first so just pushed the HDMI button and at that point the screen went blank.

I tried turning off the set and turning it back on but still no picture. I get sound and the number "1" in the display screen. When I push the menu button the "2" appears and when I push the top button "21" appears.

Any suggestions???

Josh Z

01-07-09, 06:15 PM

Good point. My subscription to HTM hasn't ran out yet, and I will think what to do with it later. But that certain reviewer should have been more adept in watching 4:3 movies - just change TV aspect ratio, man!

Most HD displays lock into 16:9 mode when receiving an HD resolution signal.

HiDef4Life

01-08-09, 11:11 AM

AnitaPeterson

01-08-09, 01:15 PM

Hello everyone,

First, let me apologize... this post is a rehash of something I wrote for another forum... but since I find that it provides additional details to anyone interested in this player, I figured out I should add it to the discussion.

I see that a lot of people gloss over the fact that this device is easily hackable (through a simple numerical code via remote control!!!) to be region-free... Which is a BIG bonus for me. Forget about Divx/xvid, what I need is a player capable to display PAL and Region 2-7 discs, including those mastered with DTS audio. And the XDE-500 does that in spades, at 1080p/24fps, for a more film-like experience. That is a big bonus...

I had a Samsung HD860 before it, and the upconversion was horrible, compared to the Toshiba.

My honest conclusion is that, unless you have 1) a fully-featured HTPC (NOT a PS3/X-Box!!!) or 2) an Oppo DVD player, this device will play almost any video format on CDs/DVDs, and will do so beautifully. I don't think there's a widely available DVD player that does as much as the XDE-500 does.

HOWEVER...

I have the XDE-500 as well as a HD-A30 HD-DVD player in my living room. They are both connected via HDMI to my 1080p 42" Vizio LCD TV, calibrated with AVIA.

I must say that the HD-A30 (and the A2/A3, as well!) can do a much better job at upconverting and displaying DVDs from region 1.

I've done this experiment, using the "Event Horizon" SE DVD:

I played the beginning of Chapter 4 on both the XDE-500 and the HD-DVD player(s). It starts with the "Lewis and Clark" vessel gliding through space, then we have a dissolve into the crew's quarters. I confess, with amazement, that the HD-A2/3/30 players do a much better job at upconverting than the XDE-500 (which, in turn, has a much better picture than the Samsung HD860 I compared it against)... The space vessel's paint job is much more visible, the contrast is much more natural, the skin tones of the crew members (Pertwee and Fishburne, in particular) are much closer to real life.

I don't own a Blu-ray player, so I can't compare the upconversion done on the XDE-500 against any of those machines... but upon seeing this difference, I realized that Toshiba has lost a golden opportunity to continue manufacturing and selling HD-DVD players as simple "upconverters"... though, of course, the HD-DVD player can't read PAL discs.

There you have it - my honest opinions on the matter. If you want an all-around player that does everything, this is it. If you're looking for the absolute best Hi-Def image, you can still find better, but much pricier solutions.

lujan

01-08-09, 02:47 PM

Unplug the unit and reboot.

Does anyone know if you lose your customized settings (resolution, audio, etc.) when you unplug the XD-E500?

Mr. Audio

01-08-09, 03:42 PM

Does anyone know if you lose your customized settings (resolution, audio, etc.) when you unplug the XD-E500?

Who cares if you do? It takes 10 seconds to change all that back. It's not like the XDE has a massive menu map.

lujan

01-08-09, 03:45 PM

Who cares if you do? It takes 10 seconds to change all that back. It's not like the XDE has a massive menu map.

Thanks for answering the *%&#ing question...

Mr. Audio

01-08-09, 04:51 PM

Thanks for answering the *%&#ing question...

Your welcome. :D

jurid001

01-08-09, 06:08 PM

Hello everyone,

I must say that the HD-A30 (and the A2/A3, as well!) can do a much better job at upconverting and displaying DVDs from region 1.

I must say I have [or had] most of the players you listed and my experience was quite different: in terms of PQ the pecking order was

XDE > A30 = PanaBD35 > OPPO970 > A2 = Onkyo405 > Philips5982

[I have also Pio 48AV but I have not tested it yet]

It probably is related to the optimal settings on the TV [Mr. Audio commented on that] and the quality of the material. I have found the rule with XDE to be as follows: the higher the bitrate, the further away XDE pulls from other players. I also found very substantial quality differences between A2 and A30, for example.

I picked a copy [probably a bootleg] of Crank DVD during one of my trips, and the PQ on XDE was amazing [the bitrate was north of 9Mp/s most of the time]. I could easily fool a lay[wo]man that [s]he watches HD:) A good test would be menu of Iron Man DVD: I can clearly see detail of the grill on his suit, while other players show mushy mess. Resident Evil III DVD is pretty amazing to watch on XDE as well.

Daffy

01-08-09, 07:42 PM

Good suggestion, but no success. I ordered it from Amazon and they already have a replacement on the way. Unit is very small and lightweight. Does not appear to be of good quality but then again it does not cost much either.

jerryg25

01-08-09, 08:26 PM

I put in the movie to look for myself about the pq difference you saw and i compared it to my 983 and thought they looked the same. I have my 983 and xde on different inputs and calibrated with dve disk with the xde inhancements turned off. I just can not see much difference between the two. I have always said that just watching a movie i prefer the selective sharping the xde does and watch most of my movies on it and use the 983 for other features the xde does not have. I have never regretted purchasing the xde even though i have the 983,xa2.a2 and the a30. A good calibrated input for the xde makes all the difference. I believe alot of people are using factory settings and getting poor pq because of it.

Mr. Audio

01-09-09, 11:33 AM

Does not appear to be of good quality but then again it does not cost much either.

Not being overly serious, but I have owned some heavy, quality built pieces of sh!t. I agree that the player is small and lightweight, but most DVD players are like that now. I definitely think it is the prettiest DVD player I've ever owned though.

jurid001

01-09-09, 12:24 PM

Not being overly serious, but I have owned some heavy, quality built pieces of sh!t.

Mr. Audio, and everyone else, in your experience, what is the ranking of SD PQ of various players you own[ed]?

This is PQ order I have experienced :

XDE > A30 = PanaBD35 > OPPO970 > A2 = Onkyo405 > Philips5982

BMAG

01-09-09, 01:04 PM

Mr. Audio, and everyone else, in your experience, what is the ranking of SD PQ of various players you own[ed]?

This is PQ order I have experienced :

XDE > A30 = PanaBD35 > OPPO970 > A2 = Onkyo405 > Philips5982

I have an XDE-500, HD-A35, and Panasonic BD35 feeding my 720p Panasonic AX-200 front projector on a 106" (diag) screen. Previously had a Sony BDP-S300 before getting the BD35, and moved it up to the living room. I rank SD PQ as follows:

XDE > A35 > BD35 >>> S300

jerryg25

01-09-09, 02:45 PM

On my 50 inch Sony sxrd i rate my players Oppo 983 and xa2 tied then xde,a30,a2 and finally Sony ns77h.

lujan

01-09-09, 03:41 PM

I have an XDE-500, HD-A35, and Panasonic BD35 feeding my 720p Panasonic AX-200 front projector on a 106" (diag) screen. Previously had a Sony BDP-S300 before getting the BD35, and moved it up to the living room. I rank SD PQ as follows:

XDE > A35 > BD35 >>> S300

I have to agree with BMAG. I have the first three components and I rank them the same for SD video quality.

XDE > A35 > BD35

JGD

01-09-09, 11:40 PM

I must say I have [or had] most of the players you listed and my experience was quite different: in terms of PQ the pecking order was

XDE > A30 = PanaBD35 > OPPO970 > A2 = Onkyo405 > Philips5982

[I have also Pio 48AV but I have not tested it yet]

It probably is related to the optimal settings on the TV [Mr. Audio commented on that] and the quality of the material. I have found the rule with XDE to be as follows: the higher the bitrate, the further away XDE pulls from other players. I also found very substantial quality differences between A2 and A30, for example.

I picked a copy [probably a bootleg] of Crank DVD during one of my trips, and the PQ on XDE was amazing [the bitrate was north of 9Mp/s most of the time]. I could easily fool a lay[wo]man that [s]he watches HD:) A good test would be menu of Iron Man DVD: I can clearly see detail of the grill on his suit, while other players show mushy mess. Resident Evil III DVD is pretty amazing to watch on XDE as well.
Maybe someone else has mentioned this but if the higher bit rate does indeed produce a sharper picture on the XDE then try using some of Columbia's Superbit DVD's like the Fifth
Element for a comparison.

JGD

moparfan

01-10-09, 10:06 AM

I watched a Superbit Resident Evil last night. Monsters HD has been showing Resident Evil a lot since they first started playing it a few months ago. The short answer is, Yes, it can be a simulacrum of high-def. If you like getting within inches of screens to compare pictures - I didn't do that. I prefer to watch the movie just as I preferred to listen to music rather than test tones... I guess whether you think it too sharp or not is up to your own personal preference or bias, but for me it is sharper without the increased noise that you see when you turn up conventional sharpness. On the oppo 983 you can turn up the sharpness, but when you do things get coarse. For the modes that the e500 has, you can easily toggle them with a button on a remote, I usually just use sharp. My panny 42-9uk had ben previously calibrated using a getgray disk to the oppos 983. I haven't had the chance to do it with the xd-e500 yet.

I like the OSD for information over having it on the fron of the player. It's more convenient and I've learned the location of the buttons by touch since the remote is not lighted.

The construction is decent enough for me @$80 cost. It looks nice. It's also a little light but since I don't heft players al day as a hobby like some people do to receivers at the local Best Buy, it's fine.

The XD-E500 does a very good job. In my estimation at least as good as any other player I've had including the XA2 and 983. It produces a very sharp, noise-free image. On a relative basis it's right at the top, on a money basis - it's an outright steal.

So, is it high def? No, but I prefer it to a lot of cable high def because at some lower bit rates on cable the pixelation kills me, such as in smoky scenes on showings of Firefly.

I do wish that I had a 1080P panel that had 24 frame input though. I want to see this player at it's full capability.

RaginCajun92

01-13-09, 10:59 PM

I've read the posts in this thread about the high pitched whine on these units when powered off. Mine does the same thing. Have you guys returned yours for replacements or are you just living with it? I'm just wondering how widespread this issue is.

finsterfoo

01-14-09, 07:53 AM

With every disc I play after about 15-20 minutes the picture shifts to the left about 15% and the cutoff area on the left appears on the right.

I got a replacement -- no shifting! :)

Returned unit was made in July. The replacement was made in November.

finsterfoo

01-14-09, 07:54 AM

jurid001

01-14-09, 09:41 PM

The XD-E500 does a very good job. In my estimation at least as good as any other player I've had including the XA2 and 983. It produces a very sharp, noise-free image. On a relative basis it's right at the top, on a money basis - it's an outright steal.

So, there seems to be a consensus: XDE is better than other players, and rivals XA2 and 983, with some people saying XDE is better, other are saying it is on par. Not bad at all for a $80 unit!

nyt

01-15-09, 03:44 PM

dochollidayda

01-15-09, 09:13 PM

So, there seems to be a consensus: XDE is better than other players, and rivals XA2 and 983, with some people saying XDE is better, other are saying it is on par. Not bad at all for a $80 unit!

I agree to that. Some movies look so good that words can't explain it.

fritzlovesmary

01-18-09, 11:41 AM

RaginCajun92

01-18-09, 12:46 PM

fritzlovesmary

01-18-09, 01:08 PM

you don't even need the optical cable. HDMI passes both audio and video. You'll need to go into the menu on the player and set your audio to pcm. Then one hdmi cable from the dvd player to the receiver is all you need. Then one hdmi cable from the receiver to the tv. Now, if you want your receiver to display Dolby, DTS or whatever then, yes you'll need the optical cable in addition to the hdmi cable, otherwise your receiver will just display mpcm as the audio signal. That's how I understand it at least from my system.

thanks for the quick answer. actually i had it without the optical cable, but was confused about the receiver not showing dolby digital when i was playing a dvd, even though i thought the sound was just fine. and the manuals of the DVD and the Receiver are kind of confusing, at least for me :)
so i guess HDMI all the way it is then.

thanks again

xolan99

01-18-09, 04:36 PM

Question for XDE owners:

I have $100 to spend at CC before they close forever and I was thinking of getting the XDE...

For those of you who own the XDE AND a PS3 on a high def TV:

Is the XDE worth it or are the differences between PS3 upconversion and XDE upconversion marginal?

Huey

01-18-09, 08:03 PM

I would not buy XDE500 from CC because you can't return it when it fails. I would spend your $100 credit at CC on something more reliable like movies or games.

xolan99

01-18-09, 10:50 PM

I would not buy XDE500 from CC because you can't return it when it fails. I would spend your $100 credit at CC on something more reliable like movies or games.

Let's assume I'm willing to take that risk though...

Is the XDE upconversion that much better than the PS3? (to owners of both)

Josh Z

01-19-09, 09:14 AM

Is the XDE upconversion that much better than the PS3? (to owners of both)

Only if you like Edge Enhancement.

I know that people in this thread really don't like to be reminded of this, but the straight-up fact of the matter is that the XDE "sharpens" its video by layering on thick and obvious Edge Enhancement.

If you like the Edge Enhanced look, you will probably like the player. There are many people in this thread who apparently do. It helps if you have a small display and sit pretty far away from it. If you don't like Edge Enhancement, you should stick with the PS3.

There have been many arguments in this thread about the subjective merits of what this player does to a video image. It really comes down to a simple yes/no decision. Yes you like Edge Enhancement, or no you don't.

finsterfoo

01-19-09, 09:27 AM

thanks for the quick answer. actually i had it without the optical cable, but was confused about the receiver not showing dolby digital when i was playing a dvd, even though i thought the sound was just fine. and the manuals of the DVD and the Receiver are kind of confusing, at least for me :)
so i guess HDMI all the way it is then.

thanks again

With my system I need to use an optical cable from the DVD to the receiver to get Dolby surround. If I pass it through my TV first, the TV downmixes the surround signal and passes two channel to my receiver.

If your TV can pass the dolby signal from the DVD player to your receiver then just the HDMI cable will work.

If the audio is set to digital (not PCM) on the DVD player then I have to use my receiver; no sound is sent to my tv via HDMI.

moparfan

01-19-09, 11:10 AM

It really comes down to a very simple thing here, try the XD-E500 yourself. It's cheap enough - compared to Oppo players which is the sacred horse around here, that it should be given a chance by anyone who cares about sd dvd. What the xde does well, it does very well. I simply do not understand the terrible picture people are complaining about. These super oversharpened, edge enhanced unwatchable pictures just doesn't exist on my tv (Panny 42-9UK). The calibrated settings are not much different than they were for Oppo 983 and XA2 on my plasma.

Now you can make the picture on the XDE look bad. It's very easy to do on my plasma, just turn the sharpness up. It is very easy to see where the panel turns the sharpness control on/off. It is easy to see on calibration disks and on actual material. To be clear, the final calibration (getgray) settings on the unit for the 9uk is not so far from what my xa2 and 983 was. Some of the overly sharpened face pictures earlier in this thread is a major misrepresentation of the picture this unit puts out. I can produce the same picture in the 983 if i turn the sharpness all the way up. In no way can I get a picture that looks as bad as the "bad" Cameron diaz face pic UNLESS I CRANK THE SHARPNESS ON MY PANNY 9uk. There is nothing obviously overdone - this is true even if I come close to the 42 inch screen (within 5 feet).

Above, I said how nice good DVDs can look. If anyone out there has the old Risky Business DVD (sucky mastering job), this was a poor viewing experience on the xa2 and 983. The picture has lot of speckles and noise. With the 500, it removes the offensive bit while leaving alone the good leaving a much more viewable picture.. If we go along the purist route, you should do nothing to the source - so what you are buying in the XA2 and 983 should be nothing - other than the hardware. In the 983s case, this isn't good enough in the risky business dvd. So, in this case, the 983 could use some processing to help it out.. Again, if we go the purist route of doing nothing to the source - what is the selling point of the upcoming oppo bluray/dvd player? Yes, it is an all-in-one machine, but besides that? Yes it has top of the line ABT chips but part of the excitement of this was killed early on for the 983 when possible custom scaling for non-1080P sets was never implemented. So you are left with its impressive deinterlacing performance for people who need it.

People, spend your $80 bucks and get one, calibrate it. It's worth it, I spend more than $80 on all kinds of stuff in audio and video.. I have supported Oppo by buying the 980 and 983 and have had the XA2. I had pride of ownership in those players because I think I got better picture out of them than I would have otherwise. I can understand why there has always been so much controversy over this player, it does what it does very well. Do I seem like a cheerleader? HELL YES. $80 and comparable, I think better, to the old tops dvd players. The effects are not overdone, imo. They are perfectly implemented for me. You don't need to take my advice, I'm a nobody except for the fact that I spent my money to live with all three players for significant amount of time.

moparfan

01-19-09, 11:48 AM

Mr. Audio

01-19-09, 01:10 PM

Let's assume I'm willing to take that risk though...

Is the XDE upconversion that much better than the PS3? (to owners of both)

First of all don't listen to Josh Z. Second, listen to moparfan. This player's abilities cannot really be described with words, it must be seen. It's cheap enough to pick one up somewhere and just try it, and is also cheap enough to keep if you like it. I was one of the biggest skeptics of this machine when I first heard about it. As soon as it dropped in price I thought just to try it out for myself. Read my review a couple of pages back. I give the good, the bad, and the ugly about this player. I tell how to get the best picture results from the player and that after you make those adjustments there is no contest from any other player. I don't have a PS3, but there is NO player that does what this one does. The player DOES use edge enhancement, but what Josh Z won't tell you is that it is SELECTIVE edge enhancement. The only thing I would change in my review is the claim that the sharpness mode is not edge enhancement when in fact it is per Toshiba's web site. Don't be scared by the terminology here. Just look at the picture and you will see.

briansxx

01-19-09, 01:48 PM

btw, mine has a high pitched whine, if I place my ear about a couple of inches away. Maybe I'm less sensitive to it. Remember when some tube tvs used to have a high pitched whine? I HATE the person that first pointed it out to me. I had lived blissfully for years without noticing it.

I had a non-whining XDE that had a fault; the replacement unit has the whine. I called Toshiba tech support and they said it is a normal part of the unit's operation and that it _may_ disappear in time. I have an HD DVD player with the same issue and it has not developed any additional problems in nearly 2 years of use. I hope the XDE has the same track record.

Brian

HiDef4Life

01-20-09, 03:41 PM

Does anyone know if you lose your customized settings (resolution, audio, etc.) when you unplug the XD-E500?

I haven't tried but probably.

dochollidayda

01-20-09, 11:50 PM

I have unplugged it a few times and didn't lose any settings.

lujan

01-21-09, 08:24 AM

I have unplugged it a few times and didn't lose any settings.

Thanks dochollidayda, finally someone who really answered the question. :)

Mr. Audio

01-21-09, 11:30 AM

I discovered just recently that my new replacement XDE is whining as well. At this point, I'm not really to concerned about it. I can't even hear it unless my ear is right next to the player and it doesn't even do it while it's in operation. I hooked it up through my receiver's power so it will turn off the power when I turn the receiver off so chances are I'll never hear it again. Nothing big, just thought I would report my whiny unit.

DVDvore

01-21-09, 11:57 AM

Hello friends, nice votes and new hopes from today (actually yesterday) !

I earn my XDE-500 for few weeks. I'm pleased with the image of this reader (not too much rings if i disable sharpness from my 37-PX81F) despite I see it's not HD but it's ok.

I post because i have a problem i threw on a french owner forum of XDE-500 but unfortunately i'm (my XDE) alone with it. So here it is :

- after viewing a film during 2h00 or more, when I go in the menu or when I stop and eject disk, etc... the XDE switch off instantly and it is quite hard to switch it on again (take off power plug, then press few time the ON/STANDBY key).

Did anybody meet this problem and solved it ? I 'm just trying to put some fans under the XDE ; perhaps a component has some overheat ? It seems not but who knows.

It would be a pity to send it back to the dealer under warranty and miss a DVD reader for few weeks as i just have bought 40 used and priced DVD on the Web...

Thanks for your help.

JGD

01-23-09, 04:00 PM

poet

01-24-09, 05:12 AM

Just got my XD-E500, and it is region locked to 2

Tried the

Open tray
press 2403960
press 9
close tray,
power off
power on

No hidden menu gets displayed to select any other region
And just trying this regardless doesn't work either.

Anyone got any info...cause this is truly frustrating as I have a total mix and match of regions in my collection.

please email me me at graeme@mira.net Cheers for any help

poet

01-24-09, 05:14 AM

Help!!

Just got my XD-E500 and tried the
turn on
open tray
press 2403960
press 9
close tray
power off
power on

Nothing, no hidden menu, no nothing

Player is still locked to region 2...which only accounts for half of my dvd collection

If anyone can help, please mail me at graeme@mira.net

Cheers

fritzlovesmary

01-24-09, 10:41 AM

hmm, the same procedure worked with mine on the first try. i would just disconnect the player from the power for a while and try it again. this is the only thing i can think of, because i never heard of a different way to get it code-free.

hope that helps and good luck.

fritz

jurid001

01-25-09, 11:15 PM

I know that people in this thread really don't like to be reminded of this, but the straight-up fact of the matter is that the XDE "sharpens" its video by layering on thick and obvious Edge Enhancement.

Hm, Josh Z is at it again! He seems to be confusing Sharpness with Edge Enhancement. EE is actually a quite involved mathematical procedure, with various chips doing it to a various degree of success. Toshiba has gone slightly farther with their super-resolution technology [similar techniques has been used in astronomy for quite awhile]. Not sure if algorithms are similar to Videoenhancer [ http://www.thedeemon.com/VideoEnhancer ], but XDE results are pretty impressive. [I did encode a clip with Videoenhancer and compared it with XDE, Videoenhancer did better, but it also took a while on my Quad Core HTPC to encode whereas XDE does it on the fly].

Bozster

01-25-09, 11:32 PM

Can someone let me know.. XDE through component doesn't do any super resolution processing right?

Boston Litigator

01-25-09, 11:37 PM

Can someone let me know.. XDE through component doesn't do any super resolution processing right?

I would be interested in an answer also.

Bozster

01-25-09, 11:46 PM

I would be interested in an answer also.

I said that because I don't have advanced image processing available through component. So I'm not sure. My guess is no. You need to connect it through HDMI.

mtavares

01-26-09, 03:38 PM

Can someone let me know.. XDE through component doesn't do any super resolution processing right?

I would be interested in an answer also.

Bozster and cglionna,

The XDE video enhancements (super resolution) are only available through HDMI and for resolutions equal or higher than 1080i.

Best Regards,

Marcos

Q.J.A

fritzlovesmary

01-26-09, 07:09 PM

hi,

you need a HDMI connection, but it also works when you choose "auto" under HDMI in the setup menu. sometimes my TV says i am playing a DVD in 720 and i can still switch between the 3 enhancements.

fritz

DVDvore

01-27-09, 07:55 AM

I've had mine for 4 months or so with no problems at all.

I was thinking about where I should place the XDE-500 and I have touched the top of the unit to see if it does get warm or hot and it seems to run cool. I don't think a fan is needed. I suspect your unit is bad and I would return it for a replacement unit.

JGD
Since i use some fans under my XDE 500, no sudden power off until now. I guess i could take it back to the dealer but i need a dvd reader so...

I saw last night 99's edition of Gattaca (Z2) and unfortunately the XDE doesn't add any sharpness, grain disparition or enhancement to the quality image even with sharp mode (same deal with Artificiel Intelligence Z1 +24hz).

A contrario, i have the last edition of "the thing" and "attractions rules" and i have a really good image whith really good definition and sharpness (especially for "the thing").

HiFiFun

01-30-09, 05:17 AM

Investigation reveals that for optimal picture quality mate the 500 player with a display which simple repeats the players 24Hz output rate. Say five times. 5*24 = 120Hz. Which is exactly what the best of the 120Hz LCD displays do. They accept 24Hz and just repeat it 5 times. This eliminates the image processing converting from 24 to 60Hz.

I had a chance to evaluate the 500 when set to 24Hz, when placyed back on a Samsung 950 display at 120Hz (it does this automatically). The claimed 500 translucent outlining was reduced by 80-90%. Regular DVD's have never looked this good. Closer than ever to Blu-ray. Most awesome. I'm picky and can't believe just how good the 500 image quality improved. Even up close the display the image looks very clean. I may post the startling difference if I find the time, as we wouldn't want to be misleading at AVS. Would we now?

I just have to remember not to freeze the picture (field:eek:) to take the picture. If I do-do that then kick me for posting something so stupid!

mahlerfan999

01-31-09, 09:31 AM

Well when I first got this player I was really taken in by the edge enhancement trick, but honestly after a few days I got tired of it, it's not a more detailed image, just sharper, and honestly only 10% of the time did it really make a positive difference. Most of the time it simply exaggerated the mpeg2 artifacts and already applied edge enhancement (at the source).

But it gets worse, with all of the snake oil "features" turned off, there still was a problem with the upconversion. There seems to be a contrast boost applied even with the features off!:eek:

The contrast boost is just unacceptable, and the only way I could get a natural image out of the player was to output 480p and have my tv do the scaling. It seems that whenever you use it's scaler it turns on other things you might not have asked for.

Anyway I am at a complete loss as to how most of the other posters on this thread did not also tire of the "enhancements", when they obviously make for a negative impact on pq even at far viewing distances.

Also the inability to pillarbox 4:3 content rears it's ugly head on just about every dvd! Why? Because even if the movie is anamorphic 16:9, the trailers are almost always 4:3.

Zinje

01-31-09, 09:43 AM

What kind of display do you have? Did you calibrate?

Doug G

01-31-09, 11:17 AM

But it gets worse, with all of the snake oil "features" turned off, there still was a problem with the upconversion. There seems to be a contrast boost applied even with the features off!:eek:

I've seen no such issue. Can you please describe how you determined this?

If you're using the HDMI connection this probably means you have the the wrong video level setting on your display. It should be set to "standard" or "video" (range 16-235), not "enhanced" or "PC" (range 0-255). Sending standard levels to a display configured for enhanced levels has the effect of raising black levels and this could give the appearance of a "contrast boost" as you describe it. I don't think this unit supports enhanced/PC levels over HDMI although oddly it does seem to pass BTB and WTW over the component outputs. I just calibrated my RS1x last night and it supports enhanced levels but still didn't show BTB or WTW bars. (I have my Elite RPTV hooked up using the component outputs and these do pass BTB and WTW.)

HiFiFun

02-02-09, 04:44 AM

Well when I first got this player I was really taken in by the edge enhancement...

The contrast boost is just unacceptable....
You are the only one to make this claim.

jurid001

02-04-09, 10:43 AM

I have already touched on this topic in one of my posts:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15651583&postcount=1633
I tried to compare output from VideoEnhancer [ http://www.thedeemon.com/VideoEnhancer ] super-resolution software to XDE, and the software solution was better for obvious reasons. However, my comparison is limited to one PC only, and I wonder if some of you could run some experiments on your PC with different material [the soft is very easy to install, and it is free to try]. I wonder just how far Toshiba in implementing the super resolution.

czwsecurity

02-04-09, 02:31 PM

Hi Folks
Had a few questions as Im getting ready to buy this player:

1. How is the component (480p) quality?
2 Has anyone had any issues using an hdmi-dvi cable? (my tv has an hdcp capable dvi port)
3. How is this player with homemade disks? (is it brand picky?)

Thanks for the input.

Huey

02-04-09, 07:25 PM

Jurid001, the whole point of XDE is to avoid HTPC and it's headaches/unfriendly interface.

jurid001

02-05-09, 10:29 AM

Jurid001, the whole point of XDE is to avoid HTPC and it's headaches/unfriendly interface.

Perhaps you did not quite get what I was talking about: to check how well XDE super resolution algorithm works compared to a good software implementation [a very slow one, actually].

mahlerfan999

02-06-09, 01:13 PM

What kind of display do you have? Did you calibrate?

This was on the Toshiba 32cv510. I recently bought a Samsung 40lna550 and will try on that and see if it has the same problem.

And both tvs were calibrated with dve. The contrast problem is not fixed by simply changing contrast setting on the tv though. And the problem did not show up on broadcast hd (including 1080i), nor did it show up on dvds, bd, or games on the ps3.

After I posted, I actually had another problem-- sometimes I would get green across the whole screen *during video playback only* so the xde screen would look fine. It looks like the player became defective.

mahlerfan999

02-06-09, 01:16 PM

I've seen no such issue. Can you please describe how you determined this?

If you're using the HDMI connection this probably means you have the the wrong video level setting on your display. It should be set to "standard" or "video" (range 16-235), not "enhanced" or "PC" (range 0-255).

I know about that, but that's completely different, that's black clipping, that looks very different from an over hot look.

mahlerfan999

02-06-09, 08:23 PM

He seems to be confusing Sharpness with Edge Enhancement.

Sharpness works by enhancing edges. How are the two different?

jurid001

02-09-09, 07:22 PM

Sharpness works by enhancing edges. How are the two different?

here is the answer:
http://www.anchorbaytech.com/vrs_technology/precision_detail_and_edge_enhancement.php

Raydeen

02-11-09, 06:07 PM

Is the XD-E500 that much better than the Toshiba HD-A2 for DVD up conversion ?

jurid001

02-11-09, 06:38 PM

Is the XD-E500 that much better than the Toshiba HD-A2 for DVD up conversion ?

yes, it is quite a bit better. but again you need good material to see that.

Raydeen

02-12-09, 02:54 AM

yes, it is quite a bit better. but again you need good material to see that.

Thanks jurid001 I've been looking at this player for sometime now and think I'll get one.

mahlerfan999

02-13-09, 09:55 PM

here is the answer:
http://www.anchorbaytech.com/vrs_technology/precision_detail_and_edge_enhancement.php

Anchor Bay might make amazing scalers, but that is just marketing hype nonsense:

"VRS Precision Detail & Edge Enhancement is able to isolate areas of the image where hard edges are prevalent and increase fine details without adding halos or ringing."

You can't increase detail. That's pretty much the same as that bad marketing of upscaling dvd players as making dvds HD. They're both based on the absurd premise that the video processing can magically add detail not actually present on the dvd.:rolleyes:

mahlerfan999

02-13-09, 09:57 PM

Thanks jurid001 I've been looking at this player for sometime now and think I'll get one.

That was a pretty funny exchange:

"Is it better?"
"Yes."
"Okay, that sold me!"

Hahaha!

Raydeen

02-14-09, 12:28 AM

mahlerfan999, I asked because jurid001 in his sig says that he owns a Toshiba HD-A2 which I have one myself. Since he also has the XD-E500 it only made since to me that his opinion would hold some weight since he owns both players.

jurid001

02-15-09, 06:21 PM

That was a pretty funny exchange:
...
Hahaha!

I see you are pretty funny guy yourself

jurid001

02-15-09, 06:23 PM

You can't increase detail. That's pretty much the same as that bad marketing of upscaling dvd players as making dvds HD. They're both based on the absurd premise that the video processing can magically add detail not actually present on the dvd.:rolleyes:

You may want to read up on that more. Check this out, for example:
http://www.thedeemon.com/VideoEnhancer/

PooperScooper

02-16-09, 08:58 AM

You may want to read up on that more. Check this out, for example:
http://www.thedeemon.com/VideoEnhancer/

Just because software can take a crappy image and make things more recognizable or more appealing does not mean it is adding real information that was not present in the source. That's the point that is being made.

larry

Doug G

02-16-09, 10:22 AM

Agree with Larry here. XDE can add perceived detail.

That said, from a subjective standpoint it doesn't mean it can't be effective under the proper circumstances. Some of the wildly opposed opinions here on XDE PQ are a testament to that.

Watched The Departed the other night and in sharp mode I couldn't make it more than 2 minutes into the film without being so distracted by the blatant macro-blocking and EE that I felt compelled to disable the sharpness mode. This DVD has a fairly sharp master complicated further by squeezing the entire 151 minutes of the film onto a single-sided double-layer DVD which seriously compromises the bit rate. (Some would argue this is significantly beyond the limit at which a reasonable PQ can be maintained.) So the all the XDE sharpness enhancement did was over exaggerate the ringing and make any bit rate deficient areas of the screen scream with artifacting. In my experience, these kinds of poorly mastered discs are the exception, not the rule. I found the disc perfectly watchable without any enhancements thanks to the excellent 1080p upconverting capabilities of this player.

OTOH, immediately before that we sat down with the kids to watch Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa and even knowing how good CGI animated flicks can look at 480p, with XDE sharp mode enabled in 1080p/24 mode this entire presentation looked absolutely stunning at 103".

jurid001

02-17-09, 12:08 PM

XDE can add perceived detail.

...we sat down with the kids to watch Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa and even knowing how good CGI animated flicks can look at 480p, with XDE sharp mode enabled in 1080p/24 mode this entire presentation looked absolutely stunning at 103".

Some clarification. It's not quite about the issue of adding detail, it's about retrieving all available detail encoded due to the three-dimensionality of moving images [the third dimension is time]. A similar technique has been used in astronomy for quite some time now to a great effect. The implementation of this technique in XDE is not perfect, but it is very efficient, given the cost of that player.

Again, with good transfers the XDE performs admirably, often amazingly; as for poor transfers, simple one-frame scaling [XDE off] works better for them: the scalar in XDE is pretty damn good.

As a side note, to my surprise some VCDs become watchable , especially if you move your chair back a little:)

Doug G

02-18-09, 01:17 PM

I'm not familiar with the technique you reference but perhaps I did use the word "add" too loosely. I probably should have said "increase" perceived detail.

I got a brutal reminder the other day in just how critical it is to properly calibrate the display sharpness for the XDE. I dropped in Happy Feet and I couldn't believe my eyes. It looked horrendous in sharp mode. There were so many visible artifacts I couldn't believe they'd done such a poor mastering job! As it turns out my RS1x had the wrong image profile selected, it was using the one I use with HD sources (Natural) which uses the default setting of "0" for sharpness. (I have macros in my remote to automatically change these profiles as different devices are selected but when no valid HDMI signal exists it seems the projector doesn't accept them.) I changed back to the Cinema profile where the sharpness is slightly reduced, put it back in sharp mode and now the picture really crisped up without any of the artifacts I had seen previously.

I don't understand why Toshiba made the sharpness enhancement so obviously over-aggressive, its a shame they couldn't just get it right or offer multiple settings like the XA2. Setting the sharpness control properly is absolutely paramount to getting the most out of the enhancements this player offers!

jurid001

02-18-09, 02:42 PM

I'm not familiar with the technique you reference but perhaps I did use the word "add" too loosely. I probably should have said "increase" perceived detail.

I don't understand why Toshiba made the sharpness enhancement so obviously over-aggressive, its a shame they couldn't just get it right or offer multiple settings like the XA2.

some informative links on temporal super-resolution:
http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/~vision/VideoAnalysis/Demos/SpaceTimeSR/SpaceTimeSR_ShechtmanCaspiIrani_PAMI05.pdf
http://www.letitwave.fr/images/stories/whitepaper.pdf
http://www.topazlabs.com/topazlabs/02technologies/index.html

on your second point, lack of tuning is explained by XDE's $80 price point. so you have to some tuning on your TV

Raydeen

02-18-09, 04:21 PM

Bought a XD-E500 last night from Best Buy ($99) I'm very impressed with it. If the disc is mastered well then the results are excellent. All in all for ($99) its a great player and I'm really happy with it.

twinsen123

02-21-09, 06:03 PM

I have been watching this player since it came out and got mine $89.99 open box. I find it works (as I saw it did in a Toshiba demo not too long ago) when it involves things like tall grass, leaves, trees, etc.

Of course, the disc has to be reasonably well mastered. So when I tried something like Pearl Harbor, Armageddon, the results were pretty bad.

I tried The Breakup, and sharp mode seemed to add some je ne sais quoi "detail" to Vince Vaughn and Jennifer Aniston. Anyway, I needed something for the bedroom and this at least takes away the bluriness of DVDs on my bedroom HDTV. I wouldn't say it's phenomenal like BD but in the right situations (especially blades of grass), it does seem to work some magic.

The thing for me was, how long was I going to look at those zoomed out panoramic landscape shots? Usually not long in a movie unless I'm watching a nature documentary.

jurid001

02-22-09, 01:02 PM

I wouldn't say it's phenomenal like BD but in the right situations (especially blades of grass), it does seem to work some magic.

Nobody in their right mind would say that XDE would make DVD look like HD-DVD/BD source. But it would pull more information from the existing DVD than pretty much everything except for some expensive hardware. So in 10 or so years when some "Ultra-HD" arrives, people will be doing the same type of upconversion with BD:) - stretching 1920x1080 to 3840x2160 or whatever, and debating which player does it better!

PooperScooper

02-23-09, 05:31 AM

But it would pull more information from the existing DVD than pretty much everything except for some expensive hardware. The only information from the original captured source is on the disc. Everything else is a guess, i.e. fake. Some of the new stuff appears like it could have been there, but there's other stuff that that doesn't. It's not like decoding MPEG-2 is something that is still being developed. Your statement as worded has no truth.

larry

jurid001

02-23-09, 11:48 AM

The only information from the original captured source is on the disc. Everything else is a guess, i.e. fake. Some of the new stuff appears like it could have been there, but there's other stuff that that doesn't. It's not like decoding MPEG-2 is something that is still being developed. Your statement as worded has no truth.

larry

I am not sure you understand what you are talking about. There is information to be gained from inter-frame temporal analysis. Normal players don't use it. By using special software or hardware it is possible to pull it out, to various degrees of success. You may want to read up on that in the links I provided. Could open your eyes, you know.

PooperScooper

02-23-09, 01:11 PM

I am not sure you understand what you are talking about. There is information to be gained from inter-frame temporal analysis. Normal players don't use it. By using special software or hardware it is possible to pull it out, to various degrees of success. You may want to read up on that in the links I provided. Could open your eyes, you know.

We're probably looking at it from different perspectives. The data in the DVD is the only information that is available captured from the source. Assuming the MPEG decoder works properly you see whats on the disc as encoded. There's no other discrete information that represents the original "source" that was captured. Anything else derived is "best guess". And if one could actually capture more, the guesses will many times be correct, however there are times when they won't be. I'm not saying these software techniques don't provide value, I'm saying they can't get more information from a DVD disc than the MPEG decoder can read. Somebody else reading your statement could the idea that there more information contained on the disc that only these techniques can retrieve from the disc. That's is why I said your statement as written was not true.

larry

Bill Cruce

02-23-09, 01:26 PM

I am not sure you understand what you are talking about. There is information to be gained from inter-frame temporal analysis. Normal players don't use it. By using special software or hardware it is possible to pull it out, to various degrees of success. You may want to read up on that in the links I provided. Could open your eyes, you know.

I looked at the links you provided and read the material. There does seem to be some improvement in the image. However the demo material, e.g. at
http://www.topazlabs.com/topazlabs/02technologies/index.html
http://www.thedeemon.com/VideoEnhancer/
had pretty severe edge "halos" or ringing. Is there any way to get temporal super-resolution without edge ringing?

But I believe your original question was whether the Toshiba XDE was using these methods. I would have expected that if it was then Toshiba would have issued an engineering white paper touting the technology. To the best of my knowledge they have not.

jurid001

02-23-09, 02:45 PM

I looked at the links you provided and read the material. There does seem to be some improvement in the image. However the demo material, e.g. at
http://www.topazlabs.com/topazlabs/02technologies/index.html
http://www.thedeemon.com/VideoEnhancer/
had pretty severe edge "halos" or ringing. Is there any way to get temporal super-resolution without edge ringing?

But I believe your original question was whether the Toshiba XDE was using these methods. I would have expected that if it was then Toshiba would have issued an engineering white paper touting the technology. To the best of my knowledge they have not.

Bill, I don't think the ringing is related to super-resolution: it's probably due to the settings during encode-decode. I did some experiments using VideoEnhancer and playing resulting clips on HTPC, the results were visibly much improved compared to playing original clips. However, the encoding process took awhile. Stills may not do proper justice to evaluate this technology: you can see it much better if you encode video clips yourself [a trial version of software is free].

Regarding to what Toshiba uses, it's a bit of a mystery clouded by their marketing of SRT in TVs and Cell-based SRT [which seems to be multi-frame technology, http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/08/28/toshibas-new-zf-lcds-include-cell-based-resolution-upscaling/ ] . Some people claim because of it that Toshiba uses only intra-frame scaling in XDE. I have not seen conclusive evidence. The results from XDE are however not as good as from VideoEnhancer, which is understandable given that XDE does it in real time.

PooperScooper

02-23-09, 04:27 PM

Secrets just posted their review of the XDE-500. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/dvd-player-and-cd-player-reviews/dvd-players/toshiba-xd-e500-dvd-player.html

It looks like Zoran has learned from past mistakes. Using the current benchmark tests it scored 100% via HDMI. Although I don't know why some of the tests (e.g. Y/C delay) are not done. I haven't paid enough attention to the site to see if the current type of tests and scores can be matched against tests done in previous years.

The subjective evaluation of the XDE "features" you can read for yourself.

Also, it's unfortunate that the current reviewers don't participate in discussions at AVS like previous reviewers did. (At least I'm not aware of current participation.)

larry

HiFiFun

02-24-09, 01:28 AM

Secrets just posted their review of the XDE-500. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/dvd-player-and-cd-player-reviews/dvd-players/toshiba-xd-e500-dvd-player.html

It looks like Zoran has learned from past mistakes. Using the current benchmark tests it scored 100% via HDMI. Also, it's unfortunate that the current reviewers don't participate in discussions at AVS like previous reviewers did. (At least I'm not aware of current participation.)

larry
A perfect score. Then why do you suppose the XDE-500 has been trashed to no end by the Home Theater gang? :confused:

They might be able too post here if they weren’t trying to justify why it’s necessary to spend $2000 on deinterlacing Blu-ray disks when 99.5% percent are mastered progressively :confused:

All you need is an inexpensive player with an HDMI output, but instead they want to steer you to use seven channel analog and component outputs (11 cables) with expensive D/A converters and heavy chassis. All to be made obsolete in six months. Go figure :confused:

HiFiFun

02-24-09, 01:49 AM

Nobody in their right mind would say that XDE would make DVD look like HD-DVD/BD source. But it would pull more information from the existing DVD than pretty much everything except for some expensive hardware. So in 10 or so years when some "Ultra-HD" arrives, people will be doing the same type of upconversion with BD:) - stretching 1920x1080 to 3840x2160 or whatever, and debating which player does it better!
You guys miss the huge point that the XDE-500 sharpening only operates at 1920 resolution.
Why did Toshiba impose the limitation?:confused:

Its like this: take a title which is mastered for both Blu-ray and downsampled for DVD. A standard upsampling DVD player would make the fine detail proportional to the same number of downsampled pixels. It would not be any sharper.
No so with the Toshiba. Since they know exactly how many pixels they have and will be going too, they can reduce the number of pixels in the transition. Go from 4 to 2 pixels. The result is a sharper higher bandwidth picture with improved reconstructed transient response.
The Blu-ray does show more detail but for many types of films such as animation it does not matter much. Remember too that each format is only 8 bits depth and use similar color and luminance sampling ratios.

Lastly the Toshiba works best at 24p, not 60Hz. The 60Hz conversion process in both the player and the display can introduce considerable artifacts. Secrets really needed to review with a 72 or 120Hz capable display.

Bill Cruce

02-24-09, 02:33 AM

A perfect score. Then why do you suppose the XDE-500 has been trashed to no end by the Home Theater gang? :confused:

They might be able too post here if they weren’t trying to justify why it’s necessary to spend $2000 on deinterlacing Blu-ray disks when 99.5% percent are mastered progressively :confused:

All you need is an inexpensive player with an HDMI output, but instead they want to steer you to use seven channel analog and component outputs (11 cables) with expensive D/A converters and heavy chassis. All to be made obsolete in six months. Go figure :confused:

Read the review. It passed the basic tests. It was good for a $100 player. With the XDE features turned off. But the Oppo 981 (at 3X the price) was better, for standard DVD upscaling. I think it is trashed because it does not live up to the PR hype.

Grubert

02-24-09, 08:05 AM

The subjective evaluation of the XDE "features" you can read for yourself.

Here it is:

After playing several DVDs with XDE enhancements off, I re-watched the discs to test the three XDE modes. The first mode I tried was sharp. On some discs the XDE Sharp mode was not objectionable. It provided a bit more snap to the image. In general though, the Sharp mode made the picture look artificial and overly processed. Diagonal edges took on a stair stepped appearance and occasionally ringing and halos would surround light colored objects against a dark background. This was very evident in the night scenes from the Band Of Brothers Episode Day of Days dvd.

Next up was Almost Famous, with XDE in sharp mode the film grain was exaggerated and the image posessed an overly processed almost “video” appearance. After several more discs I came to the conclusion I prefer the performance of the player with XDE off. With Sharp engaged the picture took on a flatter and less involving picture. Additionally just turning up the sharpness control on my display performed the same function and introduced less ringing than the XDE sharp mode.

Next I rewatched the same scenes and discs with XDE Color mode on. In general Color mode didn’t do much with most discs. The effects on picture quality could be just as easily replicated by using the saturation setting on my display. The only DVD with which I preferred Color mode was Gunbuster, Aim For The Top a favourite anime title of mine. With Gunbuster the XDE Color mode did help to give the animation a bit of extra pop and vibrancy, making the animation seem hyper real.

For me Contrast mode was puzzling. All it seemed to do was raise the black level and maybe the gamma curve from 0-30 IRE. It made the air-drop scenes from Band Of Brothers look overly bright. The scenes take place in near darkness with muted colors and details. With Contrast mode on, the scenes looked as if someone began to shine a flashlight on areas of high contrast. For me, Contrast mode never improved the picture with any of the discs I watched. I found it the least useful mode and in all cases it made the picture worse.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/dvd-player-and-cd-player-reviews/dvd-players/toshiba-xd-e500-dvd-player_3.html

joed32

02-24-09, 08:46 AM

Contrast works well with older black and white movies that haven't been restored. Why are the Blue Ray people trying to build a case against this cheap little SD player?

Grubert

02-24-09, 09:11 AM

Contrast works well with older black and white movies that haven't been restored. Why are the Blue Ray people trying to build a case against this cheap little SD player?

What do the Blue Ray (sic) people have to do with anything? I wasn't the first to mention the review - another forum member did. I just posted the relevant section of the text. If you don't like it, that's another story.

PooperScooper

02-24-09, 11:23 AM

A perfect score. Then why do you suppose the XDE-500 has been trashed to no end by the Home Theater gang? :confused:

They might be able too post here if they weren’t trying to justify why it’s necessary to spend $2000 on deinterlacing Blu-ray disks when 99.5% percent are mastered progressively :confused:

All you need is an inexpensive player with an HDMI output, but instead they want to steer you to use seven channel analog and component outputs (11 cables) with expensive D/A converters and heavy chassis. All to be made obsolete in six months. Go figure :confused: One thing I don't understand is that it got a 100% but they didn't do all the tests that other players were subjected to. Although, for $99 MSRP you can't complain for SD deinterlacing. I was surprised given the previous track record for Zoran chips.

larry

iamian

02-24-09, 11:34 AM

Why are the Blue Ray people trying to build a case against this cheap little SD player?
Who are these people?[/Seinfeld]

jurid001

02-24-09, 01:42 PM

Lastly the Toshiba works best at 24p, not 60Hz. The 60Hz conversion process in both the player and the display can introduce considerable artifacts. Secrets really needed to review with a 72 or 120Hz capable display.

Agree they missed a big point here with 24Hz. However, the biggest omission is that they did not recalibrate the TV while switching to XDE modes. And we know by now that XDE controls are pretty basic and you NEED to compensate on the TV otherwise you will get all the effects the reviewer described and did not like. I was however amused that sonic-wise the XDE did better than OPPO:)

Doug G

02-24-09, 05:40 PM

^^ +1 !!

Really disappointed they didn't recalibrate for XDE sharpness mode. Then again, maybe they were looking for an excuse not to say that this player makes the argument for Blu-ray marginal when one considers the cost, stability and availability issues which are very real for Blu-ray currently. ;)

HiFiFun

02-25-09, 12:15 AM

Read the review. It passed the basic tests. It was good for a $100 player. With the XDE features turned off. But the Oppo 981 (at 3X the price) was better, for standard DVD upscaling. I think it is trashed because it does not live up to the PR hype.
Video Quality
------------
"In order to take advantage of 1080p/24 you need a compatible display capable of displaying the signal at a scan rate that is a multiple of 24hz. These displays are becoming increasingly common, unfortunately for me my Panasonic plasma is not one of these displays. However, I was able to test the 1080p/24 mode on a Samsung LCD at my office and can confirm it works well. On well authored discs the 1080p/24 mode made slow pans smoother and more fluid."

The reviewers display is the limiting factor here. That last year’s top-of-the-line Panasonic's cannot display images correctly at 48, 72, 96 or especially 120Hz is an embarrassment. The 48Hz mode is unusable because of annoying flicker.:eek:
The 500's video quality is also degraded when use with displays which accept 24Hz but then internally convert 24Hz to 60Hz.

The irony is we have an $80 player which only gets better when mated with high-quality displays. I use the 500 at 24p with the Samsung 950 processing to 120Hz. The lack of DVD motion blur this combination offers is addicting.

Audio Quality
------------
"In general I found the sound of the Toshiba XD-E500 to be exceptional for it’s price. It easily beat the internal decoding and bitstream performance of the PS3 over an HDMI connection. I also compared the HDMI and Coaxial outputs against my Oppo DV-981HD.

The Toshiba was more transparent and with a bigger sound field than both the PS3 and the Oppo. Sound from the Toshiba emanated well beyond the physical placement of each speaker. The XD-E500 also excelled at localizing individual sounds or actors in a specific spot in space. Tonally, the Toshiba sounded a tad leaner than the Oppo, with the Oppo being a bit warmer in the mid range while lacking the depth and enveloping sound field of the Toshiba."

I don't believe it: a reviewer finally noticed the 500's exceptional audio quality. Darn! :)

The real reason the 500 takes so many hits is the industry wants DVD to "just go away". Consumers feel otherwise (just look at your 101k)
In any event the XD-E500 is the perfect $80 player for these troubling economic times.

WiWavelength

02-25-09, 02:31 AM

Audio Quality
------------
"In general I found the sound of the Toshiba XD-E500 to be exceptional for it’s price. It easily beat the internal decoding and bitstream performance of the PS3 over an HDMI connection. I also compared the HDMI and Coaxial outputs against my Oppo DV-981HD.

The Toshiba was more transparent and with a bigger sound field than both the PS3 and the Oppo. Sound from the Toshiba emanated well beyond the physical placement of each speaker. The XD-E500 also excelled at localizing individual sounds or actors in a specific spot in space. Tonally, the Toshiba sounded a tad leaner than the Oppo, with the Oppo being a bit warmer in the mid range while lacking the depth and enveloping sound field of the Toshiba."

I call shenanigans on those assessments. Unless the XD-E500 applies post processing to audio as well, bits are bits, whether HDMI or S/PDIF output.

AJ

HiFiFun

02-25-09, 07:33 PM

I call shenanigans on those assessments. Unless the XD-E500 applies post processing to audio as well, bits are bits, whether HDMI or S/PDIF output.
AJ
HDMI generates a very wide RF spectrum. Preventing it from contaminating other circuitry is a most difficult challenge and requires specialized knowledge.
I've listened to each generation of HDMI and they have gotten better. The Toshiba is one of the best for its relaxed natural clarity and being easy to integrate (power conditioning wise).

WiWavelength

02-25-09, 09:51 PM

HDMI generates a very wide RF spectrum. Preventing it from contaminating other circuitry is a most difficult challenge and requires specialized knowledge.

Again, bits are bits. Any HDMI output, any HDMI cable that has the bandwidth & noise isolation to pass those bits unaltered (and nearly all do) will sound the same. "Contaminating other circuitry" is irrelevant.

I've listened to each generation of HDMI and they have gotten better. The Toshiba is one of the best for its relaxed natural clarity and being easy to integrate (power conditioning wise).

For digital audio, if the Toshiba merely serves as an HDMI transport, then it has no effect whatsoever on sound quality.

AJ

HiFiFun

02-26-09, 05:08 AM

Again, bits are bits. Any HDMI output, any HDMI cable that has the bandwidth & noise isolation to pass those bits unaltered (and nearly all do) will sound the same. "Contaminating other circuitry" is irrelevant.
For digital audio, if the Toshiba merely serves as an HDMI transport, then it has no effect whatsoever on sound quality.
AJ
Whatever. :)
To eliminate HDMI timing bus errors (which generate audio distortion in the D/A section) I recommend delaying the signal by at least 10msec in the receiver or A/V controller. This reclocks the data.
Analog signals are easily corrupted from surrounding digital circuitry. It’s taken the industry several decades to reduce the digital brightness and grit in audio gear. Yet this two dimensional brightness is still a common flaw in digital electronics with analog output section.

Toshiba has taken a big step forward in both sound and picture quality in the E500. Not bad for an $80 player! After all this is the ninth generation of the Zoran chipset and about the sixth for HDMI chips. They must be fix'in something now?

alexwroma

02-26-09, 10:31 AM

Hello to all, i have a big amletic question :).

I have to buy a dvd/divx player to link on my video projector panasonic pt200 (hd ready).

For you what is better in upscalig between:

1) Sony ns 708
and
2) Toshiba xde 500

Tanks

WiWavelength

02-26-09, 12:11 PM

Whatever. :)
To eliminate HDMI timing bus errors (which generate audio distortion in the D/A section) I recommend delaying the signal by at least 10msec in the receiver or A/V controller. This reclocks the data.
Analog signals are easily corrupted from surrounding digital circuitry. It’s taken the industry several decades to reduce the digital brightness and grit in audio gear. Yet this two dimensional brightness is still a common flaw in digital electronics with analog output section.

What does all that have to do w/ the price of tea in China???

If you do not use the DACs or analog output stages in the Toshiba XD-E500, then the above "red herring" discussion of analog is, yet again, irrelevant. If you use HDMI output instead from the Toshiba, then audio quality is entirely dependent on the processing, conversion, and analog output of the downstream component(s). All the Toshiba does is pass along the unaltered digital data. Even if you are concerned about HDMI jitter, the Toshiba does nothing to mitigate jitter. As you note, that jitter reduction responsibility, if present, falls to the downstream component(s). Now, your suggestion to enable a short "lip sync" delay to force the receiver/processor to reclock the data actually makes some sense (assuming the component's oscillator is more stable than the clock extracted from the received data).

AJ

HiFiFun

02-26-09, 08:41 PM

It's good to see even the most stubborn can grudgingly overcome their limitations. Whew!;)

I have another suggestion to reduce the stray and spurious high-speed digital magnetic and electric fields between components.
I recommend physically separating components as they don't need just a wire to be coupled. The interference typically works both ways too which is why they should have a separate filter on the power conditioner.
In summary we have air, power and cable coupling.
A few inches works fine for line level gear and 6-8" for high power amplifiers. Shielding is effective for electric fields but distance is the best solution for magnetic fields, especially transformers. Trouble is all components need to be seperated to lift the veil, not just one. I'm amazed to see expensive stacks of gear cramed into space efficient racks. :confused:

hdblu

02-26-09, 11:01 PM

Is there any update to fix the 4.3 issue

WiWavelength

02-27-09, 01:03 AM

therealjoeblow

03-06-09, 01:21 PM

I have to agree on the digital audio red herring discussion.

Digital audio passed via HDMI, Coax or Toslink is just 1's and 0's. There can be no 'better' implementation of passing this digital data by one manufacturer or another, UNLESS one of them is first decoding the data, altering it, and then re-encoding it before sending it out as a bitstream.

That's like saying that the data in my Excel sheet transferred from Maxtor harddrives is better than that same data transferred from Seagate harddrives. Sorry, but it's the exact same data. Just a bunch of 1's and 0's.

Now if they are decoding, processing and re-encoding the data and it infact does sound better, that's probably fine for some people with poor audio systems that benefit from additional external processors. But most people have spent a pile of money on very capable A/V receivers with high end processors in them and do NOT want the audio altered. If the XDE500 is altering the data, Toshiba should disclose that in the manual and have settings to enable and disable this 'feature'.

Sorry, but you can argue about interference, signal degradation, RF this and that all you want, but it's ALL IRRELEVANT to discussion about digital audio.

Cheers,
The REAL Joe

therealjoeblow

03-06-09, 02:13 PM

Jurid001, the whole point of XDE is to avoid HTPC and it's headaches/unfriendly interface.

I beg to differ. My 6 year old daughter can operate the HTPC with the ATI Remote Wonder with absolutely no issues (and has been able to for 2 years now!). There are no headaches on a properly configured HTPC, nor any interface issues on a system that's properly setup.

Cheers,
The REAL Joe

therealjoeblow

03-06-09, 02:26 PM

hi,
i was reading through all the posts, but couldn't really find the answer, so here is my question:
how do you guys have the player connected to the TV and receiver? i have a Panasonic 50" plasma and the Yamaha RX-V463 and right now have a HDMI cable and an optical cable running from the DVD-player to the receiver and then a HDMI cable from there to the TV.
is that the right/proper/best way to do the connections or would it be better - quality-wise - to run the HDMI directly from the DVD to the TV?
the only other device connected to the is a directv receiver, which has a S-video cable directly to the TV and the audio-cables to the Yamaha.

thanks

You'll get different opinions from different people. My opinion is:

1) Manufacturers of high end TV's (Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, Sony) have put a tremendous amount of effort into their designs, concentrating on producing the best picture quality they can from any given input source. Sound on the TV's is usually an ill-thought out addon because some people won't buy a TV without it (although I would)

Therefore, IMO, the Video signal goes directly to the TV via a single HDMI cable (or component if there is no HDMI output on the device), so there is no chance that an AVR will alter it.

2) AV receiver manufactures have likewise spent the bulk of their design effort on highest quality sound, and the best of them (Onkyo, Yamaha and Pioneer) are truly superb in terms of digital decoding and processing. HDMI switching and upscaling in AVR's, much like sound on TV's, was a quickly adapted addon to be able to market their devices to people who wanted convenience of cabling, or who had inferior TV's with too few inputs. There are *very* few manufacturers of AVR's who have decent quality upscalers in their boxes (even Onkyo gets criticized for having terrible upscalers). And some of the Yamahas will actually alter the signal when supposedly just passing thru the HDMI video (make it darker).

Therefore, again, IMO, the Audio goes from the DVD/BluRay/DCT via Digital Coax or Toslink to the AVR, and the AVR never gets to touch the video signal.

Cheers,
The REAL Joe

gameling

03-07-09, 09:09 PM

Joe,

I agree with your philosophy for the most part. From what I understand though, digital coax and toslink don't have the bandwith to carry the new blu-ray audio formats. I am outputting audio and video from my Panasonic blu-ray through my HK receiver for this reason.

Gary

You'll get different opinions from different people. My opinion is:

1) Manufacturers of high end TV's (Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, Sony) have put a tremendous amount of effort into their designs, concentrating on producing the best picture quality they can from any given input source. Sound on the TV's is usually an ill-thought out addon because some people won't buy a TV without it (although I would)

Therefore, IMO, the Video signal goes directly to the TV via a single HDMI cable (or component if there is no HDMI output on the device), so there is no chance that an AVR will alter it.

2) AV receiver manufactures have likewise spent the bulk of their design effort on highest quality sound, and the best of them (Onkyo, Yamaha and Pioneer) are truly superb in terms of digital decoding and processing. HDMI switching and upscaling in AVR's, much like sound on TV's, was a quickly adapted addon to be able to market their devices to people who wanted convenience of cabling, or who had inferior TV's with too few inputs. There are *very* few manufacturers of AVR's who have decent quality upscalers in their boxes (even Onkyo gets criticized for having terrible upscalers). And some of the Yamahas will actually alter the signal when supposedly just passing thru the HDMI video (make it darker).

Therefore, again, IMO, the Audio goes from the DVD/BluRay/DCT via Digital Coax or Toslink to the AVR, and the AVR never gets to touch the video signal.

Cheers,
The REAL Joe

jsil

03-07-09, 09:41 PM

I have a pan 30bd and was looking at XD-E500. How does this player compare to Pioneer 51fd or Samsung 2550 with sd dvd play back. Thanks

Huey

03-08-09, 10:17 AM

jurid001

03-10-09, 12:09 PM

I have a pan 30bd and was looking at XD-E500. How does this player compare to Pioneer 51fd or Samsung 2550 with sd dvd play back. Thanks

XDE is better than 35bd. 35bd should be similar to 51fd or 2550 in SD.

gameling

03-10-09, 03:31 PM

Hi,

Has anyone actually returned their XDE due to the high pitched whine in standby mode? If so, did the replacement unit not have the whine?

For those that have bought their units recently, do you have the whine? If not, what is the mfg. date?

The cryptic response I got from Toshiba leads me to think they may have changed the power supply in production at some point and new units don't have the whine.

I have a return authorization from Toshiba, but am reluctant to spend $20 sending them my unit if the replacement they send me may have the same issue.

Thanks,
Gary

moparfan

03-10-09, 03:57 PM

Post their cryptic response if it was an email.

jurid001

03-10-09, 04:11 PM

Hi,

Has anyone actually returned their XDE due to the high pitched whine in standby mode? If so, did the replacement unit not have the whine?

Gary

From what I gather, the whine is normal and should not interfere with operation of the player. Mine whines. In fact I returned the first unit because it had no whine, and it did not play DVDs either:)

gameling

03-11-09, 10:12 PM

From what I gather, the whine is normal and should not interfere with operation of the player. Mine whines. In fact I returned the first unit because it had no whine, and it did not play DVDs either:)

I can hear the whine from about 15-20 feet away and could not sleep if the unit was in my bedroom (luckily it is not). Seems odd that sometimes it whines, and sometimes it is dead silent when in standby mode. Not really sure what it could be doing since there are no visible lights or anything that appears to be happening.

gameling

03-11-09, 10:16 PM

Post their cryptic response if it was an email.

I don't have the email any more but the exchange went something like this. They offered to replace my unit due to the whine. I replied that I was concerned the new unit may be a refurbished unit and/or would still have the whine and asked if they had could assure me it would not have the whine. Their answer was that the unit would be brand new and tested in the factory.

Does anyone have one that doesn't ever whine in standby?

joed32

03-12-09, 09:24 AM

I don't have the email any more but the exchange went something like this. They offered to replace my unit due to the whine. I replied that I was concerned the new unit may be a refurbished unit and/or would still have the whine and asked if they had could assure me it would not have the whine. Their answer was that the unit would be brand new and tested in the factory.

Does anyone have one that doesn't ever whine in standby?

Mine doesn't make a sound and never has.

avsscientist

03-13-09, 05:09 PM

Does anyone use a Logitech harmony remote to control the XDE? The power toggle seems to simultaneously turn on my Oppo DVD players at the same time. Has anyone here found a solution to this issue?

PooperScooper

03-14-09, 10:25 AM

Does anyone use a Logitech harmony remote to control the XDE? The power toggle seems to simultaneously turn on my Oppo DVD players at the same time. Has anyone here found a solution to this issue?
And the XDE-500 remote does not affect the Oppos? If so, must be another set of codes that can be used. And, can the Harmony learn?

larry

Josh Z

03-14-09, 02:56 PM

Posted early in post 737 in this thread:

The XD-E500 uses certain generic remote frequencies that the Oppo will also accept. That's why the Toshiba's remote will operate the Oppo but the Oppo's specific remote (which doesn't use those generic frequencies) will not operate the Toshiba.

To fix this, you need to do two things:

1) In the Oppo's Setup menu, find the "Alt RC Code" setting and turn it off. That will prevent the Oppo from accepting any generic remote frequencies except for "Power" and "EJect".

2) To stop the player from accepting the generic Power and Eject commands, you need to take the cover off the Oppo player and look for a small switch on the backside of the front panel. Move it to the opposite direction of wherever it currently sits. Then put the cover back on. This is a fairly painless procedure and will ensure that the Oppo player only accepts commands from the Oppo remote. Everything else will work normally.

I hope that helps.

avsscientist

03-15-09, 06:04 AM

2) To stop the player from accepting the generic Power and Eject commands, you need to take the cover off the Oppo player and look for a small switch on the backside of the front panel. Move it to the opposite direction of wherever it currently sits. Then put the cover back on. This is a fairly painless procedure and will ensure that the Oppo player only accepts commands from the Oppo remote. Everything else will work normally.

wow nice tip, thanks! Looks like some surgery is called for on Sunday.

therealjoeblow

03-20-09, 01:08 PM

Dear Joe,

You said: "I beg to differ. My 6 year old daughter can operate the HTPC with the ATI Remote Wonder with absolutely no issues (and has been able to for 2 years now!). There are no headaches on a properly configured HTPC, nor any interface issues on a system that's properly setup."

Unless you make your services (and your cash) available to AVS forum members to setup HTPC so a six year old can operate, I would refrain from making this statement. Most people can't or won't mess with a PC just to watch a movie. Setting up an HTPC is not easy or cheap. A good HTPC can cost over $500 depending what video cards, processor, optical drives, size of hard drive(s), and software. There are also software and drivers setup, updates, conflicts, crashes, etc. There is a whole section on HTPC and I suggest you hang out there. This section is for set-top-box players.

I own HTPC but now just use my PS3 to play my movies, media server. My HTPC is used mostly for big screen PC games, web surfing (PS3 web browser is crappy), Hulu-HD (PS3 can do regular Hulu), etc.

Hey Huey,

Sorry, I wasn't at all trying to start a HTPC vs Standalone debate, someone else stated that HTPC's are too complex for the masses, and I was only replying to that erroneous comment to set the record straight. Let's leave it there on that issue.

Now, back to the XD-E500: I bought one and gave it a good 2 week trial, and, man, is this thing a serious piece of POOP! It's going back for the following reasons, some of which are deal breakers on their own, and the whole of which Toshiba should be seriously embarrassed and ashamed of themselves, given this is their 'flagship' DVD-only model:

1) High pitched whine when turned off. Totally unacceptable, and if they claim as others have reported that "this is a normal part of the operation of this unit", then I would really like to see a copy of the design Engineer's notes and specifications where he *purposefully* wrote "the unit shall make an irritating high pitched whine when turned off and which can be clearly heard from a distance of not less than 10 ft." Come on, this is a design flaw clear and simple. (deal breaker on its own, I'm not waiting for the recall notice after they realize the malfunctioning part in the PSU blows up and burns down houses)

2) No proper aspect ratio control for 4x3 material on WS TV - everything is stretched to 16:9 (deal breaker on its own - this is basic functionality that was perfected about 10 years ago, there's no reason to get it wrong in this day and age)

3) Horrible menus, both in terms of customizable features and the menu text quality (jagged text, hard to read and just all around poor looking) - come on, my 25 year old Commodore 64 had better onscreen graphics! (not a deal breaker on its own, but very home-made looking!)

4) Remote control is not very responsive - sometimes takes 3 or 4 presses of a key to get it to register. (not a deal breaker on its own, but *extremely* annoying)

5) PAL conversion is horrid. Full of 'venetian blind' effects from poor deinterlacing and scaling. They would have been better off to just leave this out completely like Pioneer does, rather than have a half-assed attempt at a feature that's really useless. Or else, get it right like LG does in their $49 models! (deal breaker, since this was one of the pre-requisites, that PAL material can be played at equal quality to NTSC)

6) No 'resume memory' when turned off. Come on, this is a basic feature in all but the cheapest no-name import models. (toss up whether it's a deal breaker on its own, but extremely irritating nevertheless)

7) DVD Picture quality - while sharpening feature is neat, and useful on some very well mastered material, for the most part, I found it just amplifies noise and found myself constantly turning it on and off. I know you don't want to have a HTPC debate, but you can do *much* better with ffdshow on any old a PC for DVD's only. (deal breaker on its own, since this was the only compelling reason to buy this product, and it really fails to impress, so there's no other reason for this to stand above any other competing product in price.)

8) DivX/XviD playback - the picture quality is also *very* poor compared to my Pioneer and LG units. I don't know what Toshiba did wrong, but they sure didn't give this feature much attention. (not a deal breaker on its own, since I consider ability to play DivX/XviD a bonus if it works)

9) "XDE" splash logo - this is really self serving. I have a Plasma TV, and don't want *anything* displayed when the DVD player is in stop mode. When leaving the room for a few mins to answer the phone or make popcorn, etc, I don't want to leave the movie paused or on a menu for fear of image retention. So I hit "Stop" which should be easier on the TV than constantly turning it on and off. But this damned player insists on displaying it's own fancy graphic logo, for no particular good reason. I know it's a Toshiba XDE, I don't *ever* need to be reminded onscreen! My Pioneer DVD Player simply displays a black screen when I hit stop. Nothing more, and nothing more is desired. (not a deal breaker on its own, but this should be something that can be user-disabled and not fixed by Toshiba!)

10) Front panel LED display - this is useless as it is. Come on, at least give me a time counter, toggle-able from the remote for elapsed vs remaining. Showing the chapter number with nothing else, you might have just as well left it out completely and kept the price down.

There you have it, my own (subjective but honest) 2 week review. All in all, very disappointing for a product that promised so much but delivered so little. Maybe if they eventually fix these problems and come up with a really polished product that has the features people actually want I'd give it another go (model 550, or 1000?), but for now, this isn't worth a dime to me, I'll stick with my existing Poineer, and continue on the HTPC path for higher quality and flexibility options.

Cheers,
The REAL Joe

moparfan

03-20-09, 09:53 PM

For normal people, it does very well. Granted, I don't really care about anything you listed except for the 4:3 ratio bit. Everything else works great compared to my past oppo 983 and XA2.

Automan

03-21-09, 05:38 PM

Is there any update to fix the 4.3 issue

Just what I was looking for and the answer would seem to be no :(

I have emailed them twice....

Hi,
This is my second attempt to help with this product.

1st Time I was asked to report back the firmware version but was given no help where to find it.

Anyway I still cannot get this machine to playback my older movies or TV programs made in 4:3 without the image being stretched to 16:9 making people look fat and round objects oval.

I have tried all combinations of settings in the picture mode setup menus but none help.

My TV will not let me change the aspect ratio of a HDMI 1080 signal so I cannot correct the error on it.

What is the solution?

Thanking you in advance for your help.

Reply (last December BTW)

Dear Mr x

Thank you for your recent enquiry. Please find the information that you requested as follows:

I have forwarded your email to the engineers at head office.
I will email you again when I hear back from them.

If you have any further queries or would like to go through your query with an advisor you can contact us on 0115 9766958,
Monday - Friday 8.00-20.00, Saturday 8.00-18.00 and Sunday 10.00-16.00, or feel free to reply by E-mail.

We trust that the information is to your satisfaction. If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us on the above number.

Kind regards,
Raj Nunkoo
Toshiba Consumer Products Division Helpdesk

I guess the machine is so cheaply made that it can not take a firmware upgrade.

I myself have consigned my one to my junk pile.

Automan.

Automan

03-21-09, 05:56 PM

I stand corrected, a firmware update does exist but not for the 4:3 issue...

Not sure if this link will work http://tesc.toshiba.co.uk/Web/ModelLis.nsf/FAQ/21CC9207016B913E80257500003EE689?OpenDocument

Frequently Asked Questions
Question
When my XD-E500KB (UK Model) is connected with specific TV via HDMI, there is no picture output for PAL 1080p signal, Why?.
Answer
Update Firmware with new version. XD_E500-K-TB-001 For UK Model.
Additional Information

First confirm current firmware version as follows:

1. Open empty tray.

2. Press Angle Key and then Display Key on DVD Remote.

3. Current Firmware Version is displayed on the TV screen.

4. If the current version is not XD_E500-K-TB-001 follow below procedure to upgrade firmware to latest version.

Updating XDE500 Firmware

1. Download firmware zip file from the bottom of this page.

2. Unzip and write the contents of the folder (2 files) to the root of a CD ROM.

3. Insert the disc into the XDE500 and follow the on screen prompts.

4. Do not interrupt the machine during the upgrade, when it has finished the tray will open.

5. Remove the upgrade disc and test on HDMI 1080P.

pwang8

03-22-09, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post
You absolutely would have to recalibrate.

Basically the Contrast mode, bumps up the Brightness level in the player.

I set my player in Contrast mode. The picture seems darker than other video sources. Anyone knows how to change the brightness of the player?

lujan

03-22-09, 10:51 AM

Doug G

03-22-09, 11:00 AM

Well, add me the list of XDE owners with drive failure. Only 8 months of light use, that's ridiculous! Started to stutter during playback and now it just grinds and eventually says "bad disc" no matter what I put in it. The warranty is pathetic, its really only 90 days, the remainder of the 1yr period you have to pay a "fee" for replacement. Gee, thanks for standing behind your crappy product Toshiba! Despite the nice upconverting performance and 24fps mode, if they won't replace this with a new unit for no cost to me it will be the last Toshiba product I ever buy. Heck, it might be anyway at this point.

venejo

03-22-09, 04:09 PM

Well all i can say is that my machine when i'm watching movies it just shuts down by itself. It can happen on the first chapters or a lot later in the movie. I'm definitely waiting to see the 500's replacement....

Fox McCloud

03-24-09, 04:02 PM

Hi
I recently purchased this player off eBay for 40 GBP :)

I was just wondering if anyone knows of the latest firmware version (is that it above?) and where to get it.
And yes it has a nice little whine when in standby :( not when turned on tho. Strange. Its not too bad for now as i can just switch it off at the plug i suppose. But its in my bedroom and the wife doesnt like the noise :(

Automan

03-27-09, 07:09 AM

I emailed tosh again asking for an update....

Thank you for your recent enquiry. Please find the information that you requested as follows:

Sorry for the delay in replying.

We have tested this with our TV's and we can change the aspect ratio on a 1080 signal, so we selected 4:3 and picture is the correct size.

If your TV is made by another manufacture, we suggest you ask them if you can't change the aspect ratio at 1080.

If you have any further queries or would like to go through your query with an advisor you can contact us on 0115 9766958,
Monday - Friday 8.00-20.00, Saturday 8.00-18.00 and Sunday 10.00-16.00, or feel free to reply by E-mail.

We trust that the information is to your satisfaction. If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us on the above number.

Kind regards,
Raj Nunkoo
Toshiba Consumer Products Division Helpdesk

So by this I guess they are saying that it does not and its up to you to make sure you have a TV which allows you to manual overide the aspect ratio.

Also you must remember which of your DVD's are 4:3 so you dont start watching them in the wrong aspect ratio before you make your manual correction on your TV.

Very poor show IMHO Toshiba.

Automan.

Just what I was looking for and the answer would seem to be no :(

I have emailed them twice....

Reply (last December BTW)

I guess the machine is so cheaply made that it can not take a firmware upgrade.

I myself have consigned my one to my junk pile.

Automan.

Mr. Audio

03-28-09, 12:39 AM

moxie1617

03-28-09, 09:06 AM

I don't understand why everyone is so hard up about the whole 4:3 ratio thing when Oppo was just as guilty on the 970. My brother has the 970 and all of his 4:3 is stretched out just like my XDE. Plus I could really care less about 4:3. My Sony player handles that just fine. I bought the XDE for one thing. Anamorphic widescreen. My TV is widescreen. Would I like to see the enhancements on 4:3, yeah, but most of my fullscreen stuff looks kinda crappy already.

Not true about the Oppo. On the 970 your brother has a choice. He can display 4:3 titles pillar boxed. This is from the 970 manual.
16:9 Wide/SQZ – 16:9 TV Wide/Squeeze Mode. Choose when the display is 16:9. 16:9 materials will be displayed in its native aspect ratio, and 4:3 materials will be displayed with black borders on both sides to maintain 4:3 aspect ratio.

If he's upgraded his firmware it is called Wide/Auto Mode.

Mr. Audio

03-28-09, 01:19 PM

Not true about the Oppo. On the 970 your brother has a choice. He can display 4:3 titles pillar boxed. This is from the 970 manual.
16:9 Wide/SQZ – 16:9 TV Wide/Squeeze Mode. Choose when the display is 16:9. 16:9 materials will be displayed in its native aspect ratio, and 4:3 materials will be displayed with black borders on both sides to maintain 4:3 aspect ratio.

If he's upgraded his firmware it is called Wide/Auto Mode.

Ah...thanks, I'll let him know.

Rene_Vest

03-28-09, 03:51 PM

Toshiba XD-E500 on my Sony W 52 with 120hz shows on screen as 1080p 24fps HD

Simply stunning picture! And that is why I bought it. All else is manageable.

Automan

03-29-09, 11:33 AM

I got my unit down from the loft today just to see if the firmware upgrade made any difference to the 4:3 issues...

On performing the current firmware check
open tray, angle, display it said XD-E500TB_00E_R9

I made the upgrade CD on a closed session cd-r and performed the upgrade which when complete ejects the tray, closes tray and powers down.

I then pressed open to eject the disc.

Players menus were back to default and unit was region 2 only again.

open tray, angle, display now says XD-E500TB_00K_R2

Player seems to perform the same as before :(

To save the hunt to re multi-region...

- open the tray
- type 2403960
- press 9
- close the tray
- put the player in standby and back on again

Automan.

Doug G

03-30-09, 10:11 AM

Well, I'm out. Went to BB with the intention of picking up another XDE for $79 and no more left at any of the area stores. Looks like they've discontinued this player or at least BB isn't stocking it any more.

I felt like my hand was being forced ("resistance is futile") and not wanting to throw more money away on a DVD player I decided to pick up a Panny BD60 since they had a stack of about 20 of them just in (no display model yet.) It does 24p for DVD, has decent upconverting (if not as sharp as the XDE) and was fairly inexpensive after using a $50 gift card. Before opening any of the BD titles I also picked up I played several of my DVDs at 1080/24p including the entirety of LOTR:ROTK and the only thing I can say I'll really miss is the seamless layer change on the XDE, BD60 is roughly ~1s so not too bad but still noticeable.

Brief as it was, I really enjoyed my run with the XDE despite some of its obvious shortcomings. I still may try and get Toshiba to repair it, depending on what the "fee" is. I'd still recommend this player to those looking for a player with excellent upconversion and 1080/24p capability, just remember to properly calibrate the sharpness (e.g. turn it down) in XDE mode and the results can be outstanding.

Looking forward to building a collection of BDs now, and no I have no intention of replacing any of my DVDs with BDs thus the importance of 24p mode for DVD and excellent SD upconversion, both of which I got in the BD60.

PooperScooper

03-30-09, 02:04 PM

Mr. Audio

03-30-09, 07:15 PM

If anyone wants to see what the XDE was really made for, pop in Quantum of Solace. QOS has to be the most flawless looking DVD I've ever seen. No annoying digital noise which is what usually what the XDE ends up over enhancing when the sharpness on the TV is set to normal or above normal levels. I kid you not, just for grins I turned my TVs sharpness up to 70 from it's usual 30 and even turned my TV's edge enhancement on HIGH with sharp and contrast on on the XDE. I then zoomed the picture to rid of the black bars on my TV and I still saw no noise and the picture while it was extremely sharp had no side effects from all the effects that I had added. If studios produced DVDs as well as MGM did this one, the XDE would almost work like one button magic. Unfortunately studios like WB who made the worst possible looking DVD called "The Dark Knight" is more of the norm. The Dark Knight looks so bad, it's not even worth watching on the XDE or HDTV for that matter. If all DVDs were as good quality as Quantum of Solace, the XDE would pose a very serious threat to Blu ray. It's funny how The Dark Knight on Blu ray is considered to have top tier picture quality on BD and is total garbage on DVD. Anyway, plug in 007 and crank the sharpness back up and you'll see what the XDE can really do.

mike--

04-01-09, 02:33 AM

I hope the folks at Toshiba fix the 4:3 problem with the next generation of this player. I currently own an Oppo 981, a Toshiba HD-A30, and a Sony BDP-S300.........and This XD-E500 clearly gives me the best picture quality out of all the fore-mentioned models-but for Widescreen Anamorphic films only. I just wish I could view something like 'Shane' or 'Gone with the Wind'-both of which are 4:3 films, or for that matter many classic TV shows too-with this unit with all the enhancements. Unfortunately my (and many posters here too) E-mails and requests to Toshiba have fallen on deaf ears-as to fix this problem. The only way to use this player and see all of it's wonders is with a TV that will have a 4:3 viewing mode-most of the current widescreen TV's do not have this feature.

Automan

04-03-09, 04:32 PM

While tidying up my desktop I noted the firmware upgrade comes in a folder called Alco_XDE500TE_00K_s76_R

Doing a Google on Alco and DVD reveals that they are a Hong Kong based maker of electronic devices.

http://www.alco.com.hk

So is this why the unit has so many flaws?

Automan.

PooperScooper

04-04-09, 02:43 PM

Every region in the world is equally adept at making things with flaws. When you have player with a BOM of maybe $25 you're not going to get a lot of QA cycles. :)

larry

lujan

04-05-09, 11:27 AM

I had my first minor problem with the XD-E500 this morning. I was watching a movie and hit "pause" to go do something. When I came back and hit "play", there was no sound. I had to hit "pause" and "play" a second time for the sound to come back. Don't know what happened but it's the first time it's happened to me.

stonecreekHT

04-08-09, 11:55 AM

Wow I am amazed that people can just rip this player appart. The remote control is crappy are you kidding, after the initial setup all I press is the play button. DivX/XviD playback-support is poor whatever I use it for my +1000 DVD colection. No resume memory who cares. Pal conversion is bad again whatever I live in nebraska. Ugly menu setup, are you kidding who sits and watches the dvd menu very strange. XDE Logo and front led display again who cares I watch the screen not the front of the DVD player.

Now if mine had a high pitched power supply whine that would bug the crap out of me, I will say that. Now the 4x3 stretched to 16x9 is an issue but for the few DVD's I do have in 4x3 I simply change my projector's sharpness setting from 1 to 4 and use my old phillips dvd player.

As for picture quality I had a HTPC for a while running FFdshow and theatertek and the picture was great but not worth the trouble. With the XDE set to contrast mode all I do is insert a DVD and hit play, the image is just as good IMHO as the HTPC I did have. And yes you need a quality DVD transfer to see the best image, some look stunning and a few look over enhanced but thats a problem with the DVD, HTPC's have the same problems with a poor DVD master.

For $75 the XDE is a great buy, give it a try but remember to set your display's sharpness setting try 0 and go up slowly.

jurid001

04-08-09, 01:12 PM

... I currently own an Oppo 981, a Toshiba HD-A30, and a Sony BDP-S300.........and This XD-E500 clearly gives me the best picture quality out of all the fore-mentioned models...
... The only way to use this player and see all of it's wonders is with a TV that will have a 4:3 viewing mode-most of the current widescreen TV's do not have this feature.

XDE keeps surprising me. Watched "Firefly" for awhile on BD35, the picture was a bit lacking, put it into XDE - clearly it was better. And "Firefly" is not even a top quality DVD! [I thought about BD35 upscaling better;) I have reevaluated BD35 to be below A30 now [at least in my setup]:
here is the ranking of players that I have in terms of PQ on SD material:

Toshiba XDE > Toshiba A30 > Panasonic BD35 > Pioneer DV48 = OPPO 970 > Toshiba A2 > Onkyo 405 > Philips 5960

Discussions on 4:3 mode surprise me somewhat, there are pretty much no DVDs of decent quality in this mode. If I run into one, I change aspect ratio on my TV, so to me that's no-issue.

cjcali

04-08-09, 05:54 PM

i bought an xde player around xmas to check it out to see if i would like it. it did put up a great picture, and that wasn't with top notch equip as i had it set up to a sony 720p rear projection lcd tv. i have a sony that does a good job, so i returned it. the player didn't have a whine when off...that would have bugged me too. i have since bought a ps3 to play games and blu's, but will definitely buy the next gen xde player. i think some of the basic features that were lacking on the current model will be in there. plus i think the build quality will be better as they kinda rushed out the xde. now that i have the top of the line toshiba 46" 1080p 46xv545u, i will be looking forward to getting the next gen player when it comes out to view my current dvd's and rentals. btw, i still rent dvd's instead of blu's....c'mon redbox..get some blu's in those kiosks!

Carcosa

04-10-09, 10:22 PM

Discussions on 4:3 mode surprise me somewhat, there are pretty much no DVDs of decent quality in this mode. If I run into one, I change aspect ratio on my TV, so to me that's no-issue.

Every film made before 1952 is in the 4:3 aspect ratio as is every DVD release of that film, if its in its correct ratio.

How about CITIZEN KANE, CASABLANCA, GONE WITH THE WIND, TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE, TO HAVE AND TO HAVE NOT....?

Automan

04-11-09, 06:18 AM

Yes, I have hundreds of 4:3 classic DVD films which I would expect a DVD player from a Brand 'A' maker to play in the correct aspect ratio.

Still from a Brand 'B' maker like Alco or Liteon problems with cheap remotes, no concept of 4:3 / 16:9 aspect control and buzzing power supply units can be expected.

In Comets (UK large chain retailer) today I noted that the player now seems to come with a more compact remote control which did not even say "Toshiba" on it.

The remote still looked like a piece of Brand 'B' cheap junk.

Automan.

Carcosa

04-11-09, 10:11 AM

I'm more than pleased with image quality of the player....I've compared BD and DVD imaged side by side and the XD-E500 has never ceased to amaze me as the image is nearly BD on so many films. It really has given new life to my 1200 plus DVDs...but...

The player certainly is completely lacking in features, compared to the ONKYO model it replaced. No Auto resume, virtually no display info and this bizarre lack of support for 4:3 is just what pops into mind at the moment. And one nagging irritation for me is the disc drawer has no open edges so the only way to remove a disc is to push up from underneath or try to fit a finger in the center hole. Small issue but its there regardless.

OPPO players seem to be very well regarded. Does the image quality of the DV-980H compare at all here?

punkrocker27ka

04-11-09, 11:42 AM

I just bought this player and I was incredibly impressed with The Matrix Reloaded and Titanic. They look absolutely flawless and as good as Blu-Ray. I have noticed the high pitch whine when the player is turned off. I've only had it one day so I will have to see how annoying it turns out to be. I guess I could always unplug it, if it gets too distracting. I have not tried a 4:3 dvd yet, but even if it doesn't display it properly, can't you adjust your television and retain the correct aspect ratio? So far I am very pleased with this player, only $80, quite a bargain. I have no interest in blu-ray after using this player. I have too many dvd's to start a whole new format, and this player makes the high definition difference very minor.

Carcosa

04-11-09, 12:35 PM

In my case I cannot adjust the TV unless I go to 480p resolution, which kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing. Most better DVD players have control over this function, as did my old Onkyo. The unit set-up has selectable aspect funtions but they don't seem to work. Considering how much hoopla and marketing Toshiba poured into this I'm surprised they didn't address this up front.

jurid001

04-12-09, 03:22 PM

Every film made before 1952 is in the 4:3 aspect ratio as is every DVD release of that film, if its in its correct ratio.

How about CITIZEN KANE, CASABLANCA, GONE WITH THE WIND, TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE, TO HAVE AND TO HAVE NOT....?

I did not mean the 4:3 AR movies themselves are not good [of course not:)], but the DVD [transfers] made of them are mostly lacking. Even CASABLANCA DVD, meticulously restored, is practically exhausting the film source in terms of transfer quality. According to DVDBEAVER "Image difference [between HD-DVD and DVD] could be as little as a 10-15% improvement over the Special Edition [DVD]." http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews27/casablanca.htm

Many other transfers from older DVD movies are worse [or even much worse]. In this sense, I may be content with a suboptimal strategy of playing them on a lesser player. Though I don't need to, because my TV can change aspect ratio.

Carcosa

04-12-09, 03:50 PM

I did not mean the 4:3 AR movies themselves are not good [of course not:)], but the DVD [transfers] made of them are mostly lacking. Even CASABLANCA DVD, meticulously restored, is practically exhausting the film source in terms of transfer quality. According to DVDBEAVER "Image difference [between HD-DVD and DVD] could be as little as a 10-15% improvement over the Special Edition [DVD]." http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews27/casablanca.htm

Many other transfers from older DVD movies are worse [or even much worse]. In this sense, I may be content with a suboptimal strategy of playing them on a lesser player. Though I don't need to, because my TV can change aspect ratio.

I think that is probably a good assessment. I too think that Blu-ray will be a bit lost on most older films like those I mentioned and will give an improvement that is marginal beyond well upscaled DVD....the source material being the factor here. Although CASABLANCA looks amazing to me in BD, it looks nearly equally amazing upscaled.

KY Colonel

04-15-09, 12:24 PM

Sullivan's Travels looks great on Criterion's transfer to DVD. But is in 4:3, since I bought the XD-E500 I haven't watched it because I know I will have to use the zoom or conversion on the TV and it will look horrible. I find this a weakness/flaw in the player. I more mad that I had a top-end Denon and the unit crapped out after 18 months and was told it was not worth repairing. I talked to a AV installer and he said he had one busted in his basement. Repair people in my area won't touch it because there's not any documentation on the high end units from Denon. Really 4:3 is a hurdle to be fixed in the next XD units, as well as move up on the chip set.

samijubal

04-26-09, 01:51 AM

Does anyone know if these use a direct drive or DC brush spindle motor? I'd really like to try one of these but I use my player way too much to own one with a cheapo DC motor. I'm guessing from descriptions of build quality they don't use a DD motor.

elbarto1

04-30-09, 05:57 PM

My thoughts echo this review by jerryg25

follow up opinion
I have had the xde for a few months now and i thought i would give a follow up opinion of the unit compared to hd and the 983 and xa2. I have a 50 inch sony rptv and sit about 12 feet away. Since i have small screen compared to the pj sizes i do not see alot of the problems that big screen users see. I have two sd movies that i have hd copies of so i viewed the hd first then the sd to get a reference for my eyeballs. In pq with hd being a 10 i would rate the xde at a 9.5 in viewing experience. The 983 and xa2 at a 9.3. The bells and whistles of the xde is a 2 and the 983 a 10 and the xa2 a 9. The biggest things about the xde is no resume unless you stop and start in less than 20 minutes, no auto 4:3 and the biggest is iffy play back of homemade disks. I have found only 1 factorly disk it will not play right and all my other players have no problem with it, but burned disk it does not do well with no matter the media maker. Surprisingly the disk that it has trouble with play ok on the xa2 made by Toshiba. If i had alot of homemade dvds and no other player i would not get the xde. But just for picture wow it is great and if all you want to do is play a store bought movie i would get it. I have had no player associated problems with the player. If Toshiba was to fix the few flaws this player has i have no doubt it would then be a great player and with the picture it does play i would never ever pay twice as much for a dvd to get very little difference in pq on hd. If i had a large screen pj then it might be different but for the smaller screen i would not even consider buying an hd movie.

My Initial Impression:

I picked this bad boy at Best Buy for $69.99 the other night to replace a Sony DVPNS70H and these were some initial impressions (bare in mind I dont have the tech specs and bitrate math equations to back this up like most AVSforum users :P I just report what I see with my eyes)

sleek design looks great, feels flimsy. face buttons feel cheap and sometimes require multiple presses to engage. remote works good but must be pointed directly at the unit.

XDE features "sharp", "color", "contrast" enhancement modes. all produced an unnatural image when viewing live action IMO. animation looked good though but need to experiment more. for now "off" suits me just fine. I dialed down my TV's sharpness, and that made the "sharp" setting look better but I still preferred "off".

when viewing a DVD w/ a good transfer (POTC 3) playback looks fantastic. when viewing a lousy transfer (TDK) playback looks, you guessed it...lousy - so no magic pixies included.

Watched "Cube" on DVD-R last night. looked great (near broadcast HD at times) for almost every scene except the "red rooms" where artifacting was out of control bad. Noticed 2 instances where there was an A/V hiccup that made me think "layer break"? but it happened twice so, perhaps an issue w/ the DVD-R playback as noted in a few product reviews. I later tried another DVD-R this time single layer and it freezes as well. Since I have alot of DVD-R media this is the deal breaker.

Region unlock code enables PAL playback so I finally can watch those PAL DVDs without firing up the XBOX HD add-on :smile: woot!

DIVX playback (only via disc) is a nice bonus for someone like me who never had that option. Streaming via XBOX/PS3 still looks nicer but its a feature I didnt have before.

Remote control is adequate, I programmed the XDE into my universal so its a non-issue for me.

Other than a few issues, like lack of 4:3 pillar boxing (which my HDTV allows) and no 'resume dvd function' after power off (and possible issues like crapping out) - I would recommend this player if for some reason you dont already own an upscaling player and/or want a cheap 2nd one. for $70 its a decent value.

after a few days w/ the XDE:
So, despite enjoying the image/upscale this player delivered, the fact that it cant handle "burned" discs well is reason enough for me to pass on it. like jerryg25 said, if all you want to do is watch store bought DVD's this is a nice player at a great price point. But if you have alot of homemade DVD-R's dont even bother w/ the XDE unless you dont mind freezes, dropouts etc. For me, this one is going back and I'll bite the bullet and grab an OPPO.