Theta Digital has just officially announced that they will unveil an HDMI 1.3b solution for the CasaBlanca III. It will have 4 HDMI inputs, process Dolby +. True HD, & DTS-MA. It will be compatible with Extreme D-2, Superior II, and Premium DAC Cards. It will pass HD Video up to 1080p. There will be an upgrade path for owners of CB I, CB II, & CB III. Earlier units must be upgraded to CB III first.
Looks like the head of the class again.
Regards, Norm

My CB3 has three Extreme cards, are these same as Extreme D2?
Ash

Congrats Theta guys... I can't believe... but you can make sure I'll stop by the Theta booth at CEDIA to see for myself ;).

Finally!!! Looking forward to visiting their booth also.

Norm and I do the tag team approach. I give the National Enquirer early news
(like they blew the John Edwards fiasco a year ago) and the mainstream Theta press gives the solid facts some months later (like the mainstream press finally blowing out the facts only partially admitted by John Edwards a few weeks ago). Of course, my Theta CB3 will be upgradeable (whereas John Edwards will remain downgradable).




6-20-08:

This AM I called Mike Pontelle, VP Sales and Marketing for Amplifier Technologies, Inc. which has owned Theta Digital since about Nov. last year.

I last talked with Mike last November, when he confirmed ATI's purchase of Theta Digital from Neil Sinclair, and when he said that the new Theta would invest and infuse $$ and push ahead to make upgrading the Casablanca 3 for HDMI audio a priority - but they would have to determine whether to do for HDMI audio and video an external box or internally upgrade the CB3, they couldn't determine or promise yet whether an upgrade would be available for existing Casablanca owners, etc.

Keep in mind that ATI is as good an audio video and home theater company as it gets. They manufacture components, primarily amplifiers, for lotsa other companies. ATI has an outstanding reputation. Morris Kessler has owned ATI since “the beginning of time” and continues to actively run his company. ATI has financial resources far beyond that of mortal men such as Theta Digital’s former owner, Neil Sinclair.
When I talked to Mike last November, I realized that he, on behalf of ATI, was necessarily conservative in what he was telling me. This only continues to bespeak highly of Mike and ATI.

Now almost ¾ of a year has gone by since I last talked to Mike, or really anyone on behalf of Theta Digital to find out what is going on. I knew that the new Theta Digital needed time to sort all of this out. And my conversation with Mike shows that the new Theta Digital is fast proceeding down the right path to encourage former, current and new potential Theta owners to buy Theta.

This AM, Mike advised of the following planned to be at CEDIA (availability dates to be determined):

1. He confirmed that the Generation VIII DAC, new improved version, is available, and that there is also an upgrade going to be available for a real reasonable cost (I think others have posted the upgrade is $1,500. They have also said the new DAC is even much better than the prior one. WOW!). (Note that this DAC does not accept HDMI audio, but traditional connections including digital coaxial, balanced and toslink.)

2. Theta is working full speed on the Valis surround processor. Apparently the chip maker lined up last year is kaput, so Theta had to work hard to line up a new chip maker, which is done. The Valis will be at CEDIA. It will have HDMI for audio and video, not 1.3, but either 1.1 or 1.2. (So functionally, I would think it should work for HD DVD and Blu Ray no different than the HDMI Lexicon and Halcro surround processors already out). It will only do 5.1 channels.

3. A Dreadnaught upgrade with new output transistors with thermal tracking, so the amp won’t get as hot.

4. Last, but not least. HA! Yes, the new Casablanca will be the very first high end surround processor to have HDMI 1.3 audio and video. Using the existing CB3 chassis. No reason why the Six Shooter also can’t be used with this. The new Casablanca will decode the new high resolution Blu Ray (& HD DVD now defunct) audio formats internally into its DACs (I didn’t discuss with specificity which DACs, but its obvious that at minimum the Xtreme and Superior II DACs will work with this). The original CB3 software programmers and Momentum Data Systems are doing the software/firmware upgrade. Mike was really enthusiastic about this. I explained to him that we had heard different things in past months at AVS, re an external HDMI box that might not even tie into the Theta CB3 internal DACs, that perhaps Theta would simply abandon the CB platform as too expensive and obsolete (like the Bland has been saying for years). But no, Theta is going “full speed ahead”. As Captain Picard of Star Trek would say “Engage”. And Mike added that once the new Casablanca is available, that Theta plans to do an upgrade and determine the upgrade price.

_____________________________

Mike also mentioned that Theta is working on a Blu Ray player but this won't be at CEDIA, it will be further down the line, and they are finding this a more difficult and expensive project than one might expect!!!@@@

______________________________

Gee, and I thought my home theater system upgraded in the past year was done.

Here's what I've done:

From April to June 2007, I abandoned my ten year old Aerial 10Ts (4) for Aerial 9s (keeping Aerial CC5 and Aerial SW12 subs (3)).

About July 2007, I abandoned my ten year old Bryston 7B monoblocks (5) for
Theta Enterprise monoblocks, each with dual Reich binding posts, and by October I got the special Cardas paddle lugs (way more surface area than spades), with Granite Audio 8 guage 2 runs for each speaker/amp combo.
That audio signal communicates in "spades" (actually, in "paddles").
(Thanks to Craig Shumer, Theatermax, for the great half price special, now long over, on the Enterprises so I could afford them.)

Result: Musically, system, which Mike Parker and Mark Haflich proclaimed as the best home theater/audio combined system they had heard, was now much better, much more liquid, dynamic, real!!!

From March to May2008, I upgraded the video side. Sim2 C3X 1080, Stewart CineV 2.35 1.3 gain Studiotek curved screen (40' radius) with drop down side masking to 2.35, 127" wide for 2.35 (and higher aspect ratios), 96" wide for 16:9, Cineslide and ISCO III, Lumagen Radiance & Zektor HDMI switcher, replaced prior HD-XA1 HD DVD player with Integra HD DVD player, added Panasonic 30K blu ray player, and added Integra DTC 9.8 preamp/processor for HDMI high resolution audio from high definition disc players. Which go along with my Theta CB3 and Six Shooter. ISFed by Michael Hamilton. (Thanks to my Sim2 dealer Mark Haflich for getting me all the forgoing goodies at a great price.)

The new Casablanca will be the "coup d'etat"!!!

Q: What company's top line high end surround processors over the years maintain the highest resale value:

A: Theta Digital

Why: Because Theta Digital has and is following a truly upgradeable path, having just announced that its Casablanca 3 surround processor will be upgraded with HDMI 1.3b with audio processing for the new high resolution formats!:)

Theta Digital has just officially announced that they will unveil an HDMI 1.3b solution for the CasaBlanca III. It will have 4 HDMI inputs, process Dolby +. True HD, & DTS-MA. It will be compatible with Extreme D-2, Superior II, and Premium DAC Cards. It will pass HD Video up to 1080p. There will be an upgrade path for owners of CB I, CB II, & CB III. Earlier units must be upgraded to CB III first.
Looks like the head of the class again.
Regards, Norm

Norm,

Can you provide the "offical" source?

Thanks,

John

This will be interesting to see if this is a new Theta or not. In the past the difference between announcing and delivering could be years. (See Valis, See Six Shooter...etc...etc)

Shawn

cool. even though I just bought the Integra to tide me over, I will be looking forward to this one.

Theta Digital has just officially announced that they will unveil an HDMI 1.3b solution for the CasaBlanca III. It will have 4 HDMI inputs, process Dolby +. True HD, & DTS-MA. It will be compatible with Extreme D-2, Superior II, and Premium DAC Cards. It will pass HD Video up to 1080p. There will be an upgrade path for owners of CB I, CB II, & CB III. Earlier units must be upgraded to CB III first.
Looks like the head of the class again.
Regards, Norm

Wow! That's some upgrade path right there.

1. Is there any information on the availability of this?

2. What will the MSRP of a brand new Casablanca III with all the bells and whistles be?

P.S. Good news for Theta CB owners for sure.

This will be interesting to see if this is a new Theta or not. In the past the difference between announcing and delivering could be years.

I agree, we will have to wait until one can purchase what theta has advertised.

So if I use digital out (I got the least expensive DACS since I wouldn't be using them since I use external digital room correction) I guess I'm toast unless I pay for the upgraded DACS I won't use!!.

So if I use digital out (I got the least expensive DACS since I wouldn't be using them since I use external digital room correction) I guess I'm toast unless I pay for the upgraded DACS I won't use!!.

Digital out from your source?

Price?

I'll guess $4K ($3995) if hdmi 1.3 and 1080P24 pass thru. Make sure 1080P is 1080P24.

This is awesome, I wish Theta/ATI would update Thetas website....

Norm,

Can you provide the "offical" source?

Thanks,

John
Gladly, it's the CEDIA Expo Daily, Preview Edition, official newspaper of CEDIA Expo. Regards, Norm

And the article does 'NOT' say as rumoured in the past that Theta will first sell new units and upgrade older units later... I have asked Craig Shumer to get me in line for this .... this would be a great upgrade...

Digital out from your source?

Digtital out from the Casablanca to either (a)external DACS or (b) to external digital room correction then to external DACs. I did not want to use analog out from the CB, then use a room correction device to convert to digital (all room correction systems do their thing in digital except traditional EQ devices) and then back to analog. Plus, by using external DAC's I was not bound by timing, availability, pricing or quality of Theta DACS.

I would suspect that the new HDMI CB will not allow utilizing external DACs AND take advantage of the new high end audio coding.

HDMI 1.3 or 1.2? Is this an LPCM machine?

Digtital out from the Casablanca to either (a)external DACS or (b) to external digital room correction then to external DACs. I did not want to use analog out from the CB, then use a room correction device to convert to digital (all room correction systems do their thing in digital except traditional EQ devices) and then back to analog. Plus, by using external DAC's I was not bound by timing, availability, pricing or quality of Theta DACS.

I would suspect that the new HDMI CB will not allow utilizing external DACs AND take advantage of the new high end audio coding.
I would guess that one will be able to use an external DAC since Theta has always made that an important feature so one could use their Gen VIII DAC with the CB III being the controller/decoder. This is just an assumption on my part, and not anything official. Regards, Norm

HDMI 1.3 or 1.2? Is this an LPCM machine?

Jeff, since it has been anounced as an HDMI 1.3b machine, it will have to handle LPCM as well as DD+, True HD, & DTS-MA bitstreams. Come to think of it DSD as well. With the right transport this could make one heck of an SACD combo. Regards, Norm

Gladly, it's the CEDIA Expo Daily, Preview Edition, official newspaper of CEDIA Expo. Regards, Norm

Thank you Norm!

"Jeff, since it has been anounced as an HDMI 1.3b machine, it will have to handle LPCM as well as DD+, True HD, & DTS-MA bitstreams. Come to think of it DSD as well."

It very well may handle all that but it is not required to simply because the device is HDMI 1.3. A device can be HDMI v1.3 and not have the decoding, as an example look at the BR players that are v1.3 and don't have the internal decoding built in.

Shawn

HDMI 1.3 or 1.2? Is this an LPCM machine?

There goes Jeff starting anti-Theta hysteria as usual. Norm's post starting this thread said the following re HDMI 1.3b.


Theta Digital has just officially announced that they will unveil an HDMI 1.3b solution for the CasaBlanca III. It will have 4 HDMI inputs, process Dolby +. True HD, & DTS-MA. It will be compatible with Extreme D-2, Superior II, and Premium DAC Cards. It will pass HD Video up to 1080p. There will be an upgrade path for owners of CB I, CB II, & CB III. Earlier units must be upgraded to CB III first.
Looks like the head of the class again.
Regards, Norm

Here’s the full article You guys owe me one as it was a b**ch typing this:
Theta Digital Debuts Casablanca III HDMI 1.3b Upgrade
Theta Digital (booth 469) is introducing an HDMI 1.3b upgrade for its acclaimed Casablance 3 Music and Cinema controller, which now supports HDMI 1.3b audio and video signals.
Capitalizing on the flexible, card based architecture of the Casablanca 3, the HDMI 1.3b complaint hardware and software will provide four 1.3b inputs ad one HDMI 1.3b output. New formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed, leveraging Theta’s legendary expertise in D/A conversion technology, providing the highest levels of performance possible. The Xtreme D-2, Superior II and Premium DAC cards for the CB3 are already capable of processing signals of this caliber – yet another indication of Theta’s forward thinking designs.
This HDMI 1.3 b upgrade will also allow the CB3 to switch and pass full HD video signals from sources to to a display device at resolutions up to 1080p with no artifacts or degradation.
True to Theta Digitals long- standing tradition of providing upgrade paths, owners of previous generation Casablanca I and Casablanca II units can upgrade to Casablanca III, to gain access to this HDMI 1.3b option.
(there is a picture of the Casablanca III with a caption – Theta Digitals’s Casablanca III music and Cinema Controller now supports HDMI 1.3b Audio and Video Signals)

The sky is surely going to fall. Just saved me from spending $35K on a new processor.

The sky is surely going to fall. Just saved me from spending $35K on a new processor.

And if the digital audio outputs are volume controlled, and work with HDMI input (which in theory is forbidden), this would mate perfectly with the digital inputs of my Goldmund amps.

Anybody knows about that?

That would save me 40K Euros too...

Thanks to the OP for the information.

And if the digital audio outputs are volume controlled

In their current products, all volume control is done in the analog domain with an external volume control box.

Theta Digital has just officially announced that they will unveil an HDMI 1.3b solution for the CasaBlanca III. It will have 4 HDMI inputs, process Dolby +. True HD, & DTS-MA. It will be compatible with Extreme D-2, Superior II, and Premium DAC Cards. It will pass HD Video up to 1080p. There will be an upgrade path for owners of CB I, CB II, & CB III. Earlier units must be upgraded to CB III first.
Looks like the head of the class again.
Regards, Norm

For CB3 owners with 8 channels of superior DACS, where might we fall in this announcement.

Would we be led to believe that we will have to move to new superior II DACS?

For CB3 owners with 8 channels of superior DACS, where might we fall in this announcement.

Would we be led to believe that we will have to move to new superior II DACS?
You will definitely have to upgrade your DACs to one of the 3 in my OP. The Sup I will not do the job. Regards, Norm

For CB3 owners with 8 channels of superior DACS, where might we fall in this announcement.

Would we be led to believe that we will have to move to new superior II DACS?

You will have to upgrade your DACs to at least Premium, or Superior II, or Extreme. The original Superior DACs are old technology circa 1997-1998.

You will have to upgrade your DACs to at least Premium, or Superior II, or Extreme. The original Superior DACs are old technology circa 1997-1998.

Beat you at the wire. Norm

Beat you at the wire. Norm

But I beat you all by giving the info that Theta would be having the HDMI 1.3 Casablanca 3 at CEDIA, didn't I? HA!!!!

Here’s the full article You guys owe me one as it was a b**ch typing this:
Theta Digital Debuts Casablanca III HDMI 1.3b Upgrade
Theta Digital (booth 469) is introducing an HDMI 1.3b upgrade for its acclaimed Casablance 3 Music and Cinema controller, which now supports HDMI 1.3b audio and video signals.
Capitalizing on the flexible, card based architecture of the Casablanca 3, the HDMI 1.3b complaint hardware and software will provide four 1.3b inputs ad one HDMI 1.3b output. New formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed, leveraging Theta’s legendary expertise in D/A conversion technology, providing the highest levels of performance possible. The Xtreme D-2, Superior II and Premium DAC cards for the CB3 are already capable of processing signals of this caliber – yet another indication of Theta’s forward thinking designs.
This HDMI 1.3 b upgrade will also allow the CB3 to switch and pass full HD video signals from sources to to a display device at resolutions up to 1080p with no artifacts or degradation.
True to Theta Digitals long- standing tradition of providing upgrade paths, owners of previous generation Casablanca I and Casablanca II units can upgrade to Casablanca III, to gain access to this HDMI 1.3b option.
(there is a picture of the Casablanca III with a caption – Theta Digitals’s Casablanca III music and Cinema Controller now supports HDMI 1.3b Audio and Video Signals)

Since the CB3 HDMI 1.3 upgrade will allow four HDMI inputs and one output,
with video switching and pass through but no processing:

This is fine with me! My Lumagen Radiance or my Sim2 C3X 1080 projector do the best video scaling and processing, anyway.

But its important, that like my Intega 9 .8 preamp/processor, Theta have a menu item to turn off the video display pass through so that the video passing through the CB3 remains as pure as the original source signal. Otherwise those of us with top dog video monitors will notice a degradation of picture quality if we pass the HDMI signal through the CB3 prior to video processing whether in the display or a separate video processor.

But I beat you all by giving the info that Theta would be having the HDMI 1.3 Casablanca 3 at CEDIA, didn't I? HA!!!!

Touche! :D

Since the CB3 HDMI 1.3 upgrade will allow four HDMI inputs and one output,
with video switching and pass through but no processing:

This is fine with me! My Lumagen Radiance or my Sim2 C3X 1080 projector do the best video scaling and processing, anyway.

But its important, that like my Intega 9 .8 preamp/processor, Theta have a menu item to turn off the video display pass through so that the video passing through the CB3 remains as pure as the original source signal. Otherwise those of us with top dog video monitors will notice a degradation of picture quality if we pass the HDMI signal through the CB3 prior to video processing whether in the display or a separate video processor.
Steve, from what I gather, the HDMI video will only be a pass through with no post processing so a video processor between the CB and the display will be the only video processing in the signal path. Regards, Norm

Steve:

You could always just sent the audio only output HDMI to the CB3 from your radiance XD, and send video directly to your projector from the XD.

Steve, your Theta HDMI 1.3 shouldn't bother at all with your video if it is properly designed. Run your audio and video right through it.

Norm:

Thanks for the info, what about Extreme Dacs vs Extreme Dac-2, any indication of what would need to be done?

Steve, your Theta HDMI 1.3 shouldn't bother at all with your video if it is properly designed. Run your audio and video right through it.

I know that!!!!! But when the video display data is superimposed on the image, reports of various surround processors is that this degrades the video image. With my Integra 9.8 surround processor/preamp, if you turn the video monitor display function off, then the HDMI video signal portion passes through unchanged. There is a bit of visible degradation of picture quality leaving the video monitor display function on in the menu. I have noticed this myself. I am simply warning Theta of this same "trap.

Norm:

Thanks for the info, what about Extreme Dacs vs Extreme Dac D-2, any indication of what would need to be done?


Dealer ads for the CB3 include the following re list price of the Extreme DACs:

NEW FOR 2007 EXTREME DAC with D2 Software 4 Channel Balanced DAC $3990.00 Each"

The D2 software was added to the existing original Extreme DACs when the CB2 was upgraded to CB3 to improve performance and sonics. I was told that at that time. All upgraded or new CB3s with Extreme DACs some with the D2 software.

This HDMI 1.3 b upgrade will also allow the CB3 to switch and pass full HD video signals from sources to to a display device at resolutions up to 1080p with no artifacts or degradation.

1080p what? Do we know if it will support 1080p24 or 1080p60?

Jeff, since it has been anounced as an HDMI 1.3b machine, it will have to handle LPCM as well as DD+, True HD, & DTS-MA bitstreams. Come to think of it DSD as well. With the right transport this could make one heck of an SACD combo. Regards, NormSorry. The use of 1.3b means that the interface CAN handle all those bitstreams but the processor needs to have the ability to decode them and that is not required.

Sorry. The use of 1.3b means that the interface CAN handle all those bitstreams but the processor needs to have the ability to decode them and that is not required.

Kal, if you read the press release it states that the unit will access the new codecs. You are correct that 1.3b only means that it is capable of decoding them not requiring it. I will say we have not seen any company issue a 1.3 unit that is not designed to decode the new bitstreams, and it would be foolish of Theta to have waited for a 1.3 solution and not utilize it fully to decode them. I guess we shall see at CEDIA. Regards, Norm

You will have to upgrade your DACs to at least Premium, or Superior II, or Extreme. The original Superior DACs are old technology circa 1997-1998.

Quick question, in my CBIII I have an Extreme DAC for the R/L & C channels and then Standard cards for the sides and surround...do I need to upgrade these as well?

Quick question, in my CBIII I have an Extreme DAC for the R/L & C channels and then Standard cards for the sides and surround...do I need to upgrade these as well?
You will need to upgrade your Std card to Xtreme, Superior II, or Premium card. Regards, Norm

Q: What company's top line high end surround processors over the years maintain the highest resale value:

A: Theta Digital

Why: Because Theta Digital has and is following a truly upgradeable path, having just announced that its Casablanca 3 surround processor will be upgraded with HDMI 1.3b with audio processing for the new high resolution formats!:)

Well 25% of 18 grand is $4500!

Kal, if you read the press release it states that the unit will access the new codecs. You are correct that 1.3b only means that it is capable of decoding them not requiring it. I will say we have not seen any company issue a 1.3 unit that is not designed to decode the new bitstreams, and it would be foolish of Theta to have waited for a 1.3 solution and not utilize it fully to decode them. I guess we shall see at CEDIA. Regards, Norm
I am not arguing any of these points; merely pointing out that stipulating the inclusion of HDMI v1.3b does not assure the inclusion the codecs. BTW, did you see SACD anywhere?

I just checked Thetas website which is completely outdated, but they're listing the Superior DAC as 96kHz. Guess that's the old DAC, I thought the Premium and Superior II DACs are both 24/192? I know the Extreme is 24/384. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but anything less than 24/192 doesn't make much sense, does it?

I just checked Thetas website which is completely outdated, but they're listing the Superior DAC as 96kHz. Guess that's the old DAC, I thought the Premium and Superior II DACs are both 24/192? I know the Extreme is 24/384. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but anything less than 24/192 doesn't make much sense, does it?

Theta's website states that the Premium DACs are:
"It uses a true differential balanced output circuit. It has a Burr Brown 24/192 DAC, and can play DTS 24/96 recordings.
- - - It oversamples to 1536k."

http://www.thetadigital.com/press-release/premium-dac-01-07.htm

The Superior II DACs have been touted as close but not quite the performance of the Extreme DACs. They obviously are at least 24/192.

Here's the press release re the Superior 2 DACs:

http://www.thetadigital.com/press-release/superior2-09-04.htm

but anything less than 24/192 doesn't make much sense, does it?

As long as the DAC supports 24/96 you will be alright for blu ray and HDMI 1.3, I would say anything over 24/96 does not make sense.

I am not arguing any of these points; merely pointing out that stipulating the inclusion of HDMI v1.3b does not assure the inclusion the codecs. BTW, did you see SACD anywhere?
Kal, that was purely a hopeful assumption on my part. Because Theta has already developed a proprietary Cat 5 interface between the Compli multi format player and the Gen VIII, I know they have always desired to have their DACs decode a DSD bitstream. I'm hoping they take this opportunity to do so. Regards, Norm

I gotta say I am so surprised that Theta got HDMI 1.3 first.... I'm impressed. That said, I'll go to the Theta booth to check it out myself!! I still can't believe it!!! Should be fun!;)

List price Superior II DAC?

List price Superior II DAC?

These are list for everything that will work for the upcoming upgrade,
I expect the usual 15% discount will apply to anything you buy during an upgrade.

PREMIUM DAC 24/192 4 Channels All Balanced $1500.00 Each

Superior II 3 Channel Balanced DAC $2500.00 Each

EXTREME DAC with D2 Software 4 Channel Balanced DAC $3990.00 Each

"It uses a true differential balanced output circuit. It has a Burr Brown 24/192 DAC, and can play DTS 24/96 recordings.

Thanks for digging up the press releases, I'm not sure what that means though. If it's a 24/192 DAC it shouldn't have any trouble playing anything at that rate and that includes 96kHz. Unless Theta means something else of course, but it doesn't surprise me they're stated as 24/192 as that's pretty much the standard on high end processors now.



As long as the DAC supports 24/96 you will be alright for blu ray and HDMI 1.3, I would say anything over 24/96 does not make sense.

Well, I guess that depends on what you throw at it. dts-HD MA supports up to 8 channels of 24/96 audio, but it also supports 6 channels with 24/192. So if you end up with a 6-channel 24/192 track, you'd have to downsample it to 24/96 without the proper DACs.

Since the CB3 HDMI 1.3 upgrade will allow four HDMI inputs and one output,
with video switching and pass through but no processing:

This is fine with me! My Lumagen Radiance or my Sim2 C3X 1080 projector do the best video scaling and processing, anyway.

But its important, that like my Intega 9 .8 preamp/processor, Theta have a menu item to turn off the video display pass through so that the video passing through the CB3 remains as pure as the original source signal. Otherwise those of us with top dog video monitors will notice a degradation of picture quality if we pass the HDMI signal through the CB3 prior to video processing whether in the display or a separate video processor.

Quick question...any of you is into DVDO processors? The EDGE in particular? In the setup manual the recommended approach is to connect the source (using HDMI) to the EDGE and then from the EDGE to connect an "audio only" HDMI 1.3b signal to the preamp/receiver. But for us who value more the audio and prefer to connect the source to the preamp and then the video signal to the video processor...any potential issues?

Quick question...any of you is into DVDO processors? The EDGE in particular? In the setup manual the recommended approach is to connect the source (using HDMI) to the EDGE and then from the EDGE to connect an "audio only" HDMI 1.3b signal to the preamp/receiver. But for us who value more the audio and prefer to connect the source to the preamp and then the video signal to the video processor...any potential issues?
We're using a DVDO VP-50pro with the Integra DTC-9.8 which goes into the Theta Six Shooter. The HDMI for the BD & HD DVD players goes first to the Integra pre/pro then HDMI out to the DVDO. This works perfectly so it should be OK for the Edge as well. I think this is best for both audio & video. Regards, Norm

But for us who value more the audio and prefer to connect the source to the preamp and then the video signal to the video processor...any potential issues?

I have a VP50Pro connected to a Lexicon MC-12HD in this way. The only thing you lose with this configuration is the VP50's automatic audio delay feature.

Sound-quality wise, it doesn't matter which comes first, and the only reason I did it this way was because I wanted to see the MC-12's OSD, and I use the MC-12 to handle the delay. Admittedly, it's not as good as the VP50's delay because the VP50 knows exactly how much delay to apply, but it's good enough for now.

--Andre

Well, I guess that depends on what you throw at it. dts-HD MA supports up to 8 channels of 24/96 audio, but it also supports 6 channels with 24/192. So if you end up with a 6-channel 24/192 track, you'd have to downsample it to 24/96 without the proper DACs.

Since we are more or less talking about movies you will only see 24/96 and I do not think there is a blu ray movie out that has 24/192 but I could be wrong.

Kal, if you read the press release it states that the unit will access the new codecs. You are correct that 1.3b only means that it is capable of decoding them not requiring it. I will say we have not seen any company issue a 1.3 unit that is not designed to decode the new bitstreams, and it would be foolish of Theta to have waited for a 1.3 solution and not utilize it fully to decode them. I guess we shall see at CEDIA. Regards, Norm

Well, I hate to be a party-pooper, but you are making a lot of assumptions.
In the first place, how many high-end 1.3b units have we seen? It isn't necessarily "foolish" for Theta to issue a 1.3 solution without decoding--it may be the new owners' recognition that they are far behind the market and wanted to get something out that allowed them to claim HDMI capability as fast as possible. Given the timeframe, i find it much easier to believe that they could implement 1.3b connectivity capability for LPCM than a full on decoding solution as well.

Does anyone else find the wording in the quoted article peculiar: "New formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed, leveraging Theta’s legendary expertise in D/A conversion technology..."

"...able to be accessed" is an awfully convoluted, passive way of saying this...why not just say the Blanca can decode the new formats? It's a much clearer, simpler and stronger way of advertising the capability if it does in fact have it. Instead, the wording here certainly leaves open the possibility that the format "access" is via LPCM, transmitted over HDMI--in fact, the wording is exactly the way marketing types would fudge the issue to imply more capability without committing to it. "Accessing" the formats that have been decoded in the player and transmitted as LPCM is also more in alignment with "Theta's legendary expertise in D/A conversion"--i.e., converting LPCM to analog--than actual decoding technology, an area in which they have traditionally had no in-house expertise.

I actually do hope that they deliver the full enchilada--I like to see the performance bar raised via healthy competition. I just hate to see people getting their hopes up over a statement whose wording I find dubious. Sorry, it's the writer in me.

Cheers,
Philip Brandes

Well, I hate to be a party-pooper, but you are making a lot of assumptions.
In the first place, how many high-end 1.3b units have we seen? It isn't necessarily "foolish" for Theta to issue a 1.3 solution without decoding--it may be the new owners' recognition that they are far behind the market and wanted to get something out that allowed them to claim HDMI capability as fast as possible. Given the timeframe, i find it much easier to believe that they could implement 1.3b connectivity capability for LPCM than a full on decoding solution as well.

Does anyone else find the wording in the quoted article peculiar: "New formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed, leveraging Theta’s legendary expertise in D/A conversion technology..."

"...able to be accessed" is an awfully convoluted, passive way of saying this...why not just say the Blanca can decode the new formats? It's a much clearer, simpler and stronger way of advertising the capability if it does in fact have it. Instead, the wording here certainly leaves open the possibility that the format "access" is via LPCM, transmitted over HDMI--in fact, the wording is exactly the way marketing types would fudge the issue to imply more capability without committing to it. "Accessing" the formats that have been decoded in the player and transmitted as LPCM is also more in alignment with "Theta's legendary expertise in D/A conversion"--i.e., converting LPCM to analog--than actual decoding technology, an area in which they have traditionally had no in-house expertise.

I actually do hope that they deliver the full enchilada--I like to see the performance bar raised via healthy competition. I just hate to see people getting their hopes up over a statement whose wording I find dubious. Sorry, it's the writer in me.

Cheers,
Philip Brandes
Phil, fortunately we only have 137 more hours to wait till we find out. Regards, Norm

I hope it turns out great for you Theta guys, but I have a feeling there has to be some fatal flaw. This is just too much upgrade when no one else has offered anything close.

We'll see... (and you can bet I'll stop by the Theta booth).

I hope it turns out great for you Theta guys, but I have a feeling there has to be some fatal flaw. This is just too much upgrade when no one else has offered anything close.

We'll see... (and you can bet I'll stop by the Theta booth).

Its all your fault!!! You've been bitchin' and gripin' about Theta for years, and they've decided the only way to get you to buy one and lay off is to go full hog!!!!

Folks,

The announcement I read saysNew formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed

That doesn't state HBR codecs, that says "accessed". You can access them via PCM too with the right player.

We need to confirm if its HBR decode capable.

I have fallen in this hole once before and now read press releases a bit more carefully.

Folks,

The announcement I read says

That doesn't state HBR codecs, that says "accessed". You can access them via PCM too with the right player.

We need to confirm if its HBR decode capable.

I have fallen in this hole once before and now read press releases a bit more carefully.

Phil, no Eric, fortunately we only have 134 more hours to wait till we find out. Regards, Norm

I look forward to the update. Wish I could attend...

I look forward to the update. Wish I could attend...
I'm looking forward to it too, and I'll be there to let you know. Regards, Norm

Folks,

The announcement I read says

I have fallen in this hole once before and now read press releases a bit more carefully.

An actual offical type press release was never issued by Theta. Until such time as that happens or 130hrs from now or whichever comes first, we won't know for sure.

As you said, this was just an announcement. An announcement by a trade mag no less, in which Theta said they were going to be there with some sort of HDMI upgraded CBIII with no real details. Who knows how much the writer took upon himself to embellish.

I spoke to Theta yesterday and they were still not prepared to discuss any details of said HDMI upgrade. So what does that tell you about this so called announcement?
The only FACT is that they'll be there with a new HDMI machine of some sort.

I really expected Lexicon to win the 'first to HDMI 1.3' war. But they've been quiet, too.

First of all, this is potentially great news as the e-mail excerpt suggests that the Casablanca III could possibly have the whole shabang.

My only questions would be:

-> Availability [We have examples like Lumagen Radiance, DP Titan 250 PD MD 80] ..... this announcement has to have an availability date to have an impact. Q1 2009 or Q2 2009 tops IMO.

-> Price of the upgrade

-> Customer support on the phone and firmware updates to resolve the initial glitches and problems.


I think the first and third factors will be the most important ones. It's still very good news indeed. The silence by Meridian and Lexicon is very intriguing to be honest. Lexicon will definitely show something at CES if not here IMO.

Since we are more or less talking about movies you will only see 24/96 and I do not think there is a blu ray movie out that has 24/192 but I could be wrong.

There's already 24/192 music out, guess we'll have to wait and see if any movies will follow.

............This is fine with me! My Lumagen Radiance or my Sim2 C3X 1080 projector do the best video scaling and processing, anyway........

I still don't get why you need the Radiance with the C3X 1080...but that's for another debate :>)

I still don't get why you need the Radiance with the C3X 1080...but that's for another debate :>)


Not interested in debating. That's TOO BLAND. Interested in enjoying my gorgeous drop dead picture and sound. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And my gorgeous drop dead sound for Blu Ray and HD DVD, with the Integra 9.8 preamp processor to Theta Six Shooter, will only get better once Theta's HDMI audio 1.3 upgrade is done. That's NOT BLAND at all!!!!!!!!@@@:D

I'm gambling that some guy at Theta or ATI wrote the piece and shipped it off to CEDIA. I really hope they're on the level here. It would be a shame if it was all hype and marketing. It would send a pretty dark signal to all of us Theta owners who have hung in there with them over the last year.

An actual offical type press release was never issued by Theta. Until such time as that happens or 130hrs from now or whichever comes first, we won't know for sure.

As you said, this was just an announcement. An announcement by a trade mag no less, in which Theta said they were going to be there with some sort of HDMI upgraded CBIII with no real details. Who knows how much the writer took upon himself to embellish.

I spoke to Theta yesterday and they were still not prepared to discuss any details of said HDMI upgrade. So what does that tell you about this so called announcement?
The only FACT is that they'll be there with a new HDMI machine of some sort.
I think it's in Theta's interest to hold the big show in person at CEDIA, just like John McCain did today with the VP anouncement. It seems to have had its desired effect, that is taking the sails out of last nights speech. The VP anouncement is all I've heard about all day. We'll see if Theta can pull it off as well. Regards, Norm

I really expected Lexicon to win the 'first to HDMI 1.3' war. But they've been quiet, too.

Thing is that their firmware updates saved them and they do not need HDMI 1.3.

There's already 24/192 music out, guess we'll have to wait and see if any movies will follow.

But it is already lossless so what would be the point? Plus we do not have the bandwidth or support for 24/192 in 8 channle.

Thing is that their firmware updates saved them and they do not need HDMI 1.3.




No, I think many prefer HDMI 1.3. LPCM is not perfect. Bitstreaming prior to HDMI has always been bullet proof in terms of lack of issues.

Personally, I'd like bitstreaming... But it appears to be problematic at this point.

Does blu ray still need LPCM for menu sounds and the like?

I don't know. I am still hdmi 1.2. I get menu sounds.... Bitstreaming seems
to be incompatable with hdmi lossless tracks. Therein lies the rub.

That's the thing, blu ray specs call for the use of LPCM.

" Bitstreaming prior to HDMI has always been bullet proof in terms of lack of issues."

Not so much perfect. There were many issues with bit streaming over the years. The initial bitstream of DTS Audio discs had problems. When DTS went to half bit rate encoding it causes problems for some decoders. When Dolby changed around their flags it caused some problems for some decoders. This still occurs. Read the threads about bitstreaming DTS MA over HDMI and the problems with some decoders that has caused and the resulting damaged speakers that go with it.

Shawn

I think it's in Theta's interest to hold the big show in person at CEDIA, We'll see if Theta can pull it off as well.

If their smart we'll not see a press release before CEDIA now.
It's kind of late and over a long weekend to boot.
Seems to me official press at this point in time would be fairly worthless but not like other companies havn't made the mistake of putting out press nobody will see for zero impact before.

Let's hope they have "a really big shoe" planned to WOW the crowd.

it would be nice.

Even at the show you'll only see Theta's tiny booth area with a non-powered CB3. Expect a basic black and white HDMI spec sheet. It would be nice to see it demonstrated at the show. Hint Hint Nudge Nudge.

If they don't have a powered up HDMI piece, my bet is 2010 or later for HDMI CB3 (e.g. more of the same wait).

If they don't have a powered up HDMI piece, my bet is 2010 or later for HDMI CB3 (e.g. more of the same wait).

I agree, that would be a huge blow if theta does not have a powered/working product.

I agree, that would be a huge blow if theta does not have a powered/working product.
I don't. Theta almost always has dry displays. The only time you hear Theta at shows is use by other manufacturers. I expect a chassis showing the HDMI configuration with a description of its capabilities nothing more, but this will tell us where ATI is going with this. Maybe we will get a timetable as well. Regards, Norm

My CB3 has three Extreme cards, are these same as Extreme D2?
Ash
Basically yes. There is no hardware difference between the two. Theta changed the way they calculated dither. The superior II dac also benefits from the same software improvements. I believe one of the things the new algorithms did was improve signal to noise ratios, at least that's the claim.

For CB3 owners with 8 channels of superior DACS, where might we fall in this announcement.

Would we be led to believe that we will have to move to new superior II DACS?

I think the Sup II are significantly better than Sup I. IMO the original Superior dac is not up to the performance level of the new formats. I believe Theta would be doing itself a disservice to allow these dacs to be representative of the current sound quality of which the company is capable. Most of the negative comments about the CBIII sound quality in comparison to other processors involved the Sup I. I realize it's not inexpensive to upgrade but you will be very happy that you did. When I originally purchased my CB it had the Sup I and I was unhappy with the sound quality. in comparison to my previous processor a California Audio Labs SSP. I thought I had made a mistake buying a CB until I upgraded to the Superior II cards.

I just checked Thetas website which is completely outdated, but they're listing the Superior DAC as 96kHz. Guess that's the old DAC, I thought the Premium and Superior II DACs are both 24/192? I know the Extreme is 24/384. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but anything less than 24/192 doesn't make much sense, does it?

The Sup I is a Burr-Brown 1702 dac but a 20 bit dac. It can do 20/96 but not 24/96. The Sup II and Extreme dacs both use a Burr-Brown 1704 dac which is 24/96. It can only handle a 24/96 input. Both the Sup II and Xtreme oversample to 24/384 but neither are capable of handeling an input above 24/96. The newer Premium dac is capable of 24/192 input. 24/192 support may or may not become needed. My opinion is that support for it will be limited. High rez audio does not really make a lot of money. Allocating a lot of space for high-rez audio may not be as attractive as using the disk space for other extras that may be more attractive to the general public like different versions of a film or multiple language sound tracks.

I gotta say I am so surprised that Theta got HDMI 1.3 first.... I'm impressed. That said, I'll go to the Theta booth to check it out myself!! I still can't believe it!!! Should be fun!;)

It was scary there for awhile but the new ownership came through. I thank Neil Sinclair for the sale to an owner that is fully supporting and developing the brand. Theta was though consistant in the information as to what hardware could be supported and the likely direction an upgrade would take so I was optimistic. In the end it comes down to the intentions of the ownership. A new owner could have easily blamed the previous ownership and cannibalised the company instead of the path which they are taking. You have to figure this is much more risky but admirable path.

I actually do hope that they deliver the full enchilada--I like to see the performance bar raised via healthy competition. I just hate to see people getting their hopes up over a statement whose wording I find dubious. Sorry, it's the writer in me.

Cheers,
Philip Brandes

I can live with anything except being limited to only 5.1 24/96 material. That would really suck.

I can live with anything except being limited to only 5.1 24/96 material. That would really suck.
So if it turns out that they are not going full bore this time around, how do you think it will play out?

I don't. Theta almost always has dry displays. The only time you hear Theta at shows is use by other manufacturers. I expect a chassis showing the HDMI configuration with a description of its capabilities nothing more, but this will tell us where ATI is going with this. Maybe we will get a timetable as well.

So without a working product we then have no idea of how long it will be untill a release date.

I believe one of the things the new algorithms did was improve signal to noise ratios, at least that's the claim.

More assumptions with theta products.

The Sup I is a Burr-Brown 1702 dac but a 20 bit dac. It can do 20/96 but not 24/96. The Sup II and Extreme dacs both use a Burr-Brown 1704 dac which is 24/96. It can only handle a 24/96 input. Both the Sup II and Xtreme oversample to 24/384 but neither are capable of handeling an input above 24/96. The newer Premium dac is capable of 24/192 input. 24/192 support may or may not become needed. My opinion is that support for it will be limited. High rez audio does not really make a lot of money. Allocating a lot of space for high-rez audio may not be as attractive as using the disk space for other extras that may be more attractive to the general public like different versions of a film or multiple language sound tracks.

So because of the lack of support from theta you see no reason for anything over 24/96?

No I don't think Theta will offer a solution that does not offer 7.1 24/96. What it will depend on is what the new processor boards are capable of doing. I remember Evelyn Sinclair really inquiring about features and the direction that end users wanted to take. She certainly passed on my concerns to the design team. I expect that they will offer a "full bore" solution. However upgrading an existing platform could mean that there are some work arounds. Still if you have a CBIII with the specified dacs, you should not have to spend nearly as much money. I mean the Halcro processor was 10k and could not decode the newer formats. With that in mind, any upgrade that cost at least half of that is still a bargain for me personally.I expect onboard decoding but the wording of that statement does give a lot of wiggle room.

I wouldn't say it's because of a lack of support from Theta. I thought what Bulldogger was getting at is 24/96 is pretty much the standard for multi channel HD audio and that:


anything less than a bit rate of 24 won't work.
in most cases, anything above 24/96 would probably be done by the processor.


Any of Theta's DACs supporting 24/96 will do to get you into the HDaudio arena.

No I don't think Theta will offer a solution that does not offer 7.1 24/96. What it will depend on is what the new processor boards are capable of doing. I remember Evelyn Sinclair really inquiring about features and the direction that end users wanted to take. She certainly passed on my concerns to the design team. I expect that they will offer a "full bore" solution. However upgrading an existing platform could mean that there are some work arounds. Still if you have a CBIII with the specified dacs, you should not have to spend nearly as much money. I mean the Halcro processor was 10k and could not decode the newer formats. With that in mind, any upgrade that cost at least half of that is still a bargain for me personally.I expect onboard decoding but the wording of that statement does give a lot of wiggle room.

I frankly would prefer a progressive approach. Given Theta's history of "build as you go" architecture, I would be ok with an LPCM approach to start assuming that some of the other features of 1.3b are also included such as Lip Synch and SACD. Of course, if they go "full bore", I'll gladly take it:)

I frankly would prefer a progressive approach. Given Theta's history of "build as you go" architecture, I would be ok with an LPCM approach to start assuming that some of the other features of 1.3b are also included such as Lip Synch and SACD. Of course, if they go "full bore", I'll gladly take it:)

I'm not too sure that this is gonna be exactly what you wanna hear.

While speaking to Theta the other day, I did bring up the question of SACD playback over HDMI.
First he said that he wasn't certain, I assume that meant he wasn't certain about the CBIII actually being capable of DSD decoding of SACD over HDMI because when I then mentioned that there were players, like the Oppo that decoded DSD to PCM for SACD playback over HDMI, he said, in that case I don't 'think' there would be a problem.

So take that for what it's worth. It still doesn't answer the whole question.

I frankly would prefer a progressive approach. Given Theta's history of "build as you go" architecture, I would be ok with an LPCM approach to start assuming that some of the other features of 1.3b are also included such as Lip Synch and SACD. Of course, if they go "full bore", I'll gladly take it:)


Unless I misinterpreted what Mike Pontelle of ATI told me several months ago, the CB3 will be HDMI 1.3 and will decode the new high resolution audio formats. And that's that. And Mike and Theta know that with HDMI 1.3 parts out now, it would be a mistake to do it now like Halcro and Lexicon where it only does LPCM. Because further upgrade to HDMI 1.3 to decode the high resolution audio formats would necessitate further cost and physical changes to the CB3. So do it right the first time!!!!

We should find out this week if I'm right.

So do it right the first time!!!!

We should find out this week if I'm right.

That's always been a fine motto and a great credo for them to live by.

And I always count on you being right Steve. :rolleyes:

Unless I misinterpreted what Mike Pontelle of ATI told me several months ago, the CB3 will be HDMI 1.3 and will decode the new high resolution audio formats. And that's that. And Mike and Theta know that with HDMI 1.3 parts out now, it would be a mistake to do it now like Halcro and Lexicon where it only does LPCM. Because further upgrade to HDMI 1.3 to decode the high resolution audio formats would necessitate further cost and physical changes to the CB3. So do it right the first time!!!!

We should find out this week if I'm right.
Steve, arrived at my house in Frisco, CO, 4000 Ft. above Denver. It's downhill from here to CEDIA to get the answers we've all been waiting for. As you said we hope that they do the full enchalada the 1st time. I probably won't be the 1st to report, because I need to go back up to Frisco after Wedensday's opening to do so. I will however get as much info as I can to fill things out. Regards, Norm

If someone would be so kind when/if they stop by the Theta booth and inquire if there will be any SACD capability in the Gen VIII Series 2 at some point. It can handle it, it just needs an interface. I really love this piece and would love to see it accept a DSD signal through HDMI or something. Thanks!

"and inquire if there will be any SACD capability in the Gen VIII Series 2 at some point. It can handle it, it just needs an interface. I really love this piece and would love to see it accept a DSD signal through HDMI or something."

*Shameless self promotion* If you use one of my modded Oppo's you could listen to SACD (converted to PCM@88.2kHz) through your Gen VIII. That is assuming the Theta can accept 88.2kHz sampling rate. For DVD-A it will output at up to 192kHz.
*End shameless self promotion*

Shawn

Unless I misinterpreted what Mike Pontelle of ATI told me several months ago, the CB3 will be HDMI 1.3 and will decode the new high resolution audio formats. And that's that. And Mike and Theta know that with HDMI 1.3 parts out now, it would be a mistake to do it now like Halcro and Lexicon where it only does LPCM. Because further upgrade to HDMI 1.3 to decode the high resolution audio formats would necessitate further cost and physical changes to the CB3. So do it right the first time!!!!
We should find out this week if I'm right.Press release uses the very careful phrases "access to" and "able to be accessed" and with no mention of the number of channels. We'll see very soon.

Press release uses the very careful phrases "access to" and "able to be accessed" and with no mention of the number of channels. We'll see very soon.


I know that we'll all know for certain soon enough but....

Don't you think it would be, let's just say weird, if it could only do 5.1 when 2 of the 3 DAC cards they have that are capable of this upgrade , including their best one, are each 4 channels apiece?

Press release uses the very careful phrases "access to" and "able to be accessed" and with no mention of the number of channels. We'll see very soon.

I appreciate your concern. Makes me concerned, too.We should know shortly.

Is there a web link for the actual press release. I went to the CEDIA site and couldn't find any press release yet.

I think Norm got it from the newspaper magazine they sent out to everybody.

Gladly, it's the CEDIA Expo Daily, Preview Edition, official newspaper of CEDIA Expo. Regards, Norm

As big a deal as this would be, you would think that someone at Theta would have some in depth knowledge of it. Oh well....won't be long now.

I think Norm got it from the newspaper magazine they sent out to everybody.

There was no web link which is why he had to type the whole thing by hand.

Repost...

Full Article

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here’s the full article You guys owe me one as it was a b**ch typing this:
Theta Digital Debuts Casablanca III HDMI 1.3b Upgrade
Theta Digital (booth 469) is introducing an HDMI 1.3b upgrade for its acclaimed Casablance 3 Music and Cinema controller, which now supports HDMI 1.3b audio and video signals.
Capitalizing on the flexible, card based architecture of the Casablanca 3, the HDMI 1.3b complaint hardware and software will provide four 1.3b inputs ad one HDMI 1.3b output. New formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed, leveraging Theta’s legendary expertise in D/A conversion technology, providing the highest levels of performance possible. The Xtreme D-2, Superior II and Premium DAC cards for the CB3 are already capable of processing signals of this caliber – yet another indication of Theta’s forward thinking designs.
This HDMI 1.3 b upgrade will also allow the CB3 to switch and pass full HD video signals from sources to to a display device at resolutions up to 1080p with no artifacts or degradation.
True to Theta Digitals long- standing tradition of providing upgrade paths, owners of previous generation Casablanca I and Casablanca II units can upgrade to Casablanca III, to gain access to this HDMI 1.3b option.
(there is a picture of the Casablanca III with a caption – Theta Digitals’s Casablanca III music and Cinema Controller now supports HDMI 1.3b Audio and Video Signals)

New formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed,

So we still do not know if it supports bitstream or LPCM.

Doesn't the CBIII currently have some limitations on available processing for 96kHz 2 channel sources?

If so it might be worth asking Theta what processing is available with a 5 or 7 channel 96kHz source.

Shawn

Very quiet on this forum today - I look forward to the feedback from those at CEDIA. Theta had mentioned to me in an email that they hope to ship the HDMI solution by the end of the year, so I hope, at this point, that they can at least provide a ballpark range on the price, in addition to the technical details everyone is requesting.

This thread is either going to bust wide open after the expo are go suddenly very quiet.

When is Theta's booth officially open?

I'll be at Theta around noon tomorrow... I'll pose as Theta's big advocate, Steve Bruzonsky (and ask for one at 1/2 price)!!:D

Considering all the hype and hoopla regarding their "new" products, I'm assuming that we will get a comprehensive review here of what they really do have?

I'll be at Theta around noon tomorrow... I'll pose as Theta's big advocate, Steve Bruzonsky (and ask for one at 1/2 price)!!:D

If they don't bite will you bad mouth Theta for another seven years????:D:D:D

Considering all the hype and hoopla regarding their "new" products, I'm assuming that we will get a comprehensive review here of what they really do have?

You might have to wait a day or two. I understand that The Bland, Art, etc. are all at the Republican Convention in Mpls and won't be at CEDIA until Friday!!!!;):D:eek::confused: VP Candidate Sarah Palin is giving The Bland rifle shooting lessons.

No big hurry, I can wait. Shooting lessons eh - what are they using for a target - Theta?

I'll be at Theta around noon tomorrow... I'll pose as Theta's big advocate, Steve Bruzonsky (and ask for one at 1/2 price)!!:D

Ok, we will wait for your reporting.

Put on your flame suit.

Paul

Ok, we will wait for your reporting.

Put on your flame suit.

Paul


The Bland reporting on Theta is like CNN reporting on Palin as VP candidate!!!

Woops. I take it back. Even The Bland is more fair than that!!!???

The Bland reporting on Theta is like CNN reporting on Palin as VP candidate!!!

Woops. I take it back. Even The Bland is more fair than that!!!???

CNN is relatively fair.. Now Olbermann and Chris Matthews (MSNBC) giving a Palin a fair shake is like Susan Sarandon voting McCain. Go Palin... A McCain win means more HT spending for me... Otherwise, I'll have to go to Home Theater in a Box..

As an owner of a CB3 with Xtreme DACs I'm pretty disappointed. Upgrading the DACs alone will cost double what another pro will cost, let alone the cost of the upgrade.

The whole value of my CB3 IS the DACs. If they have to be thrown away, then it's like starting over. Already replaced the DACs once and it's not like there was a trade-in discount.

I don't believe your xtreme dacs will need to be upgraded

Where did you get the idea you had to upgrade the dacs (beyond a firmware update to d-2 which basically costs nothing)?

As an owner of a CB3 with Xtreme DACs I'm pretty disappointed. Upgrading the DACs alone will cost double what another pro will cost, let alone the cost of the upgrade.

The whole value of my CB3 IS the DACs. If they have to be thrown away, then it's like starting over. Already replaced the DACs once and it's not like there was a trade-in discount.

Ian, your Extreme DACs will work fine with any CB3 HDMI 1.3 upgrade. You have nothing to worry about.

Ian, your Extreme DACs will work fine with any CB3 HDMI 1.3 upgrade. You have nothing to worry about.

I guess I read the press announcement incorrectly. I remember Theta came out with v2 of the DACs and from the press announcement it sounded like the latest version of the DACs were necessary.

Whew! Thanks for straightening me out. I feel much better now. :-)

how do we know if we have extreme D2 versus version 1 and can the firmware be updated with the theta firmware update software or does it require theta to do it?

I'm here but unless Theta changed booths... They are a no show!

I have booth 1011 in my planner

dog. They are at 469.

No price. Rep not sure if can bitstream lossless. Will require trip to factory. Non powered unit no demo but display had 4 icons dts ms Dolby true hd srs but nothing else. So it may be a prop. 4 in 1 out. Due at Xmas.

The Bland:

Are you on roller skates?

how do we know if we have extreme D2 versus version 1 and can the firmware be updated with the theta firmware update software or does it require theta to do it?

The CB3 includes the software for the Extreme D2. When my CB2 was upgraded to CB3 was upgraded in 2005, it was explained that my Extreme DACs were having a software upgrade in the process.

dog. They are at 469.

No price. Rep not sure if can bitstream lossless. Will require trip to factory. Non powered unit no demo but display had 4 icons dts ms Dolby true hd srs but nothing else. So it may be a prop. 4 in 1 out. Due at Xmas.

If display has "DTS MS" and also "Dolby True HD", then it sounds like it can bitstream lossless. But yea you'd think rep would know about this and clearly advise. Of course to upgrade the CB3 to the new HDMI 1.3 version it will require a trip to the factory. Since its a static display, likely a prop as Theta has the working HDMI 1.3 processors in house for evaluation, listening and plain 'ol work to get it out ASAP.

So Jeff, did you make nice to Theta???

dog. They are at 469.

No price. Rep not sure if can bitstream lossless. Will require trip to factory. Non powered unit no demo but display had 4 icons dts ms Dolby true hd srs but nothing else. So it may be a prop. 4 in 1 out. Due at Xmas.

How do we find your blog section for your CEDIA Comments??

No price. Rep not sure if can bitstream lossless. Will require trip to factory. Non powered unit no demo but display had 4 icons dts ms Dolby true hd srs but nothing else. So it may be a prop. 4 in 1 out. Due at Xmas.

So we leaned nothing, did you ask if there was anything inside the chassis/box?

So we leaned nothing, did you ask if there was anything inside the chassis/box?

We learned that Jeff couldn't get Theta to give him a half price sweet deal for the new CB3 HDMI 1.3 cause he would have told us if he was getting it!!!

We learned that Jeff couldn't get Theta to give him a half price sweet deal for the new CB3 HDMI 1.3 cause he would have told us if he was getting it!!!

So being a non powered unit I would guess it was just the chassis with no internal hardware.

Visited Theta's booth.... this is what I learnt...
Was told new CB3 will internally process all new formats.
Hardware is ready , software is being readied by a company called 'Momentum' which is a high end provider to the industry (supposedly they have a booth in CEDIA).
The HDMI card will cost 3500 Dollars and it has its own processor and will 'Not' use the processor which is currently in the unit and will be used to process the new formats.
The old processor will stay in the unit and will be used to process to current formats such as 5.1.
The upgrade will be offered to current users as soon as it comes out (no wait and is removed new CB3's will be sold first before upgrades are taken).
HDMI will come out by x mas.

:)

Visited Theta's booth.... this is what I learnt...
Was told new CB3 will internally process all new formats.
Hardware is ready , software is being readied by a company called 'Momentum' which is a high end provider to the industry (supposedly they have a booth in CEDIA).
The HDMI card will cost 3500 Dollars and it has its own processor and will 'Not' use the processor which is currently in the unit and will be used to process the new formats.
The old processor will stay in the unit and will be used to process to current formats such as 5.1.
The upgrade will be offered to current users as soon as it comes out (no wait and is removed new CB3's will be sold first before upgrades are taken).
HDMI will come out by x mas.

Sorry, Jeff, but Theta wasn't gonna tell you anything. Not given your history. But you will get your chance to buy a CB3 HDMI 1.3 and forget the past!!!
HA!


Ash is a long time Theta supporter and owner and Theta knows him well. Of course Theta would spill all the beans to him at CEDIA! Or to me if I was there.

But Mike Pontelle of ATI spilled all the beans to me, truthfully and on schedule as he could. He told me last November that HDMI would be a priority for the CB3, and that they would use Momentum. He told me a few months ago that the CB3 1.3 which will process the new high resolution audio formats would be at CEDIA. What he didn't tell me, cause he didn't know yet, was that the new CB3 would be available around X-Mas this year with upgrades available thereafter or the cost of the upgrades.

ATI manufacturers audio components for many, many companies. Their reputation is a 10 on a 10 scale. ATI's purchaseo of Theta was the very best thing that possibly could have happened. And thanks to Neil Sinclair, former Theta owner, for making this possible, as he had lets just say offshore offers which certainly wouldn't have resulted in such a positive scenario for us Theta owners!!!! $3500 for HDMI 1.3 processing upgrade is outstanding!!!

This is exciting!!!! Craig Shumer of Theatermax, one of if not the top Theta dealer in the U.S., must be going nutso!!!!

No doubt my Integra 9.8 preamp/processor, which has performed outstanding via my Theta Six Shooter multi-channel preamp/processor, will be going for sale once my CB3 is upgraded. And I will no doubt have even better EXtreme DAC sonics that what I have now! Amazing.

Of course, the only thing more amazing would be if Doug Winsor bought one. The odds of that are like MoveOn.Org folks voting for McCain/Palin.

The HDMI card will cost 3500 Dollars and it has its own processor and will 'Not' use the processor which is currently in the unit and will be used to process the new formats.
The old processor will stay in the unit and will be used to process to current formats such as 5.1.


Thanks ever so much for that info Ash. Outstanding news!

The other yet unanswered question here then is 5.1 or 7.1?
Of course I'm not slow enough to think 7.1 would not be the unreasonable approach, but Kal brought it up first :)

And what does all that mean for decoding of DSD over HDMI? Was it mentioned specifically?

Sorry Steve, just looking for what their saying today, not 3 months ago.
Nothing personal...
And Steve...
This is the first time I've ever found Craigs mailbox to be full :(

Thanks ever so much for that info Ash. Outstanding news!

The other yet unanswered question here then is 5.1 or 7.1?
Of course I'm not slow enough to think 7.1 would not be the unreasonable approach, but Kal brought it up first :)

And what does all that mean for decoding of DSD over HDMI? Was it mentioned specifically?

Sorry Steve, just looking for what their saying today, not 3 months ago.
Nothing personal...
And Steve...
This is the first time I've ever found Craigs mailbox to be full :(

I have my own red phone line direct to Craig. Can't give it out, though. HA! HA!

Visited Theta's booth.... this is what I learnt...
Was told new CB3 will internally process all new formats.
Hardware is ready , software is being readied by a company called 'Momentum' which is a high end provider to the industry (supposedly they have a booth in CEDIA).
The HDMI card will cost 3500 Dollars and it has its own processor and will 'Not' use the processor which is currently in the unit and will be used to process the new formats.
The old processor will stay in the unit and will be used to process to current formats such as 5.1.
The upgrade will be offered to current users as soon as it comes out (no wait and is removed new CB3's will be sold first before upgrades are taken).
HDMI will come out by x mas.
Sorry for my post delay, but I just got back up to Frisco from the Show, got dial-up to boot. Ash's info is essentially correct. It will decode Dolby+, D HD, DTS-MA. It will pass through Video to HDMI output unprocessed in any way. It will need a factory update as a lot of stuff needs to be re-worked so it cannot be done in the field as the CBIII decoder cards were. Will be 7.1 or greater, and a new 4 port AES/EBU digital output card will be available for output to Gen VIII's. No DSD signal transfer or D/A is planned in either the CBIII or the Gen VIII due to the waning interest in SACD.
A new BD transport is in the works, but is so new it's not a sure thing. This all from Carl Nicolson WC Sales rep for Theta. They are very excited about this advancement as I hope we all are. It would seem the ATI purchase of Theta was very good for Theta, and subsequently good for us. If you have any other inquiries, I will be happy to answer or pass them along.
I spoke to Harmon and there are no plans to go 1.3a or later, and no plans to decode raw bitstreams of the new codecs. This goes for both Lexicon & the multi Kilo-Buck Levinson. So far the number of Pre/Pros from the high end companies that can decode the new codecs as well as handle LPCM are few and far between. With Theta's excellent DACs this may well be the Unit for the SOTA Home Theater in the very near future. Again! Regards, Norm

Sorry for my post delay, but I just got back up to Frisco from the Show, got dial-up to boot. Ash's info is essentially correct. It will decode Dolby+, D HD, DTS-MA. It will pass through Video to HDMI output unprocessed in any way. It will need a factory update as a lot of stuff needs to be re-worked so it cannot be done in the field as the CBIII decoder cards were. Will be 7.1 or greater, and a new 4 port AES/EBU digital output card will be available for output to Gen VIII's. No DSD signal transfer or D/A is planned in either the CBIII or the Gen VIII due to the waning interest in SACD.
A new BD transport is in the works, but is so new it's not a sure thing. This all from Carl Nicolson WC Sales rep for Theta. They are very excited about this advancement as I hope we all are. It would seem the ATI purchase of Theta was very good for Theta, and subsequently good for us. If you have any other inquiries, I will be happy to answer or pass them along.
I spoke to Harmon and there are no plans to go 1.3a or later, and no plans to decode raw bitstreams of the new codecs. This goes for both Lexicon & the multi Kilo-Buck Levinson. So far the number of Pre/Pros from the high end companies that can decode the new codecs as well as handle LPCM are few and far between. With Theta's excellent DACs this may well be the Unit for the SOTA Home Theater in the very near future. Again! Regards, Norm

Norm and Ash, thanks for the great info!!!!@@@@

Any news from Sim Audio. Will their new surround processor decode the new codecs or just do LPCM?

I am relieved by what I'm hearing. :) I started with Casablanca I and have upgraded to II and III. I have an extreme board, a superior I and an original standard balanced. It looks like I will need $5K to buy a Premium DAC card and get the HDMI input board. That should get me 7.1.

I would have to pay about as much to buy a receiver that could do the new formats. By every time I have had my Casablanca out to CA for an upgrade and used borrowed equipment in the meantime, the results couldn't touch the Casablanca. It will be worth the wait.

Norm and Ash, thanks for the great info!!!!@@@@

Any news from Sim Audio. Will their new surround processor decode the new codecs or just do LPCM?Both. :D

we just chased Peter out of the strip bar. But what fun!

Norm and Ash, thanks for the great info!!!!@@@@

Any news from Sim Audio. Will their new surround processor decode the new codecs or just do LPCM?
Steve, I saw the Sim Pre/Pro, and it looked very nice. I tried to get a brochure, but it was the only one which they did not have. The rep was busy in a personal conversation so I just don't know yet. I will try to get more info tomorrow. Regards, Norm

we just chased Peter out of the strip bar. But what fun!

Sorry I couldn't be with you guys, but I'm 70 miles up the mountain. My strip bar is my wife which unlike Vegas doesn't have to stay here, I get to take her home with me.
Regards, Norm

I am relieved by what I'm hearing. :) I started with Casablanca I and have upgraded to II and III. I have an extreme board, a superior I and an original standard balanced. It looks like I will need $5K to buy a Premium DAC card and get the HDMI input board. That should get me 7.1.

I would have to pay about as much to buy a receiver that could do the new formats. By every time I have had my Casablanca out to CA for an upgrade and used borrowed equipment in the meantime, the results couldn't touch the Casablanca. It will be worth the wait.

I think in light of the current news that will be a good decision. For whatever cost would you rather have a Denon or a fully up to date CB III HDMI+. Regards, Norm

Sorry I couldn't be with you guys, but I'm 70 miles up the mountain. My strip bar is my wife which unlike Vegas doesn't have to stay here, I get to take her home with me.
Regards, Norm

Is your wife looking over your shoulder as you type or see you looking for brownie points?

Was there any mention of what one of these new CBIII/HD's are going to cost and then the price just to add this optional HDMI card and whatever optional DACS one might want or to be able to afford?
I mean to say, the new CBIII/HD will already be built new, not needing any work other then to, what I would imagine is to simply slide in the new video type card that also has all the other audio goodies attached to it.

Or just the cost of the optional 4 port AES/EBU digital output card, in which case no internal DACS would be required and I suppose that would simplify the process of adding some sort of a room correction device.

I'm guessing, ballpark, that sort of configuration should "ONLY" run about
25g's+ over the cost of getting 2 Xtreme DAC cards but instead you get 8 channels of those glorious sounding Gen VIII's and a way to use room correction! Of course you'll also need a whole nutha rack too.

Or is there gonna be some other (less costly) way of using room correction with the new CBIII/HD or whaterever it'll be called?
They didn't need it to do video processing because there are plenty of other options available to accomplish that but what of room correction? Is it possible to accomplish that without degrading the performance of Xtreme DAC cards?

Whether they'll be a way of using room correction with the new CBIII/HD or not without having to go with all Gen VIII's, they should at least come up with a name for this thing in the not too distant future.
This way we'll have a way to differentiate between which units we're talking about, the new generation of CBIII's or the old.
As surely, internally they must be laid out somewhat differently and their capabilities will be dramatically different. But that's just my opinion. I still want it no matter what the name is. :)

No DSD signal transfer or D/A is planned in either the CBIII or the Gen VIII due to the waning interest in SACD.

I think anyone wanting to do this can just use Shawn Fogg's modified players. I use my Six Shooters for SACD.

Will be 7.1 or greater, and a new 4 port AES/EBU digital output card will be available for output to Gen VIII's. oNorm

Thanks Norm and Ash. My only concern is Dolby PPLLIIx processing. Will the new board be able to apply any form of post processing to expand a 5.1 24/96 track to 7.1? The current DDPPLLIIx board can only go to 5.1 24/96. The major advantage for me to having my CB upgrading would be the ability to expand 5.1 tracks to 7.1 which I can not do with any current Blu-ray players. Norm your comments of 7.1 or great imply that some form of post-processing is going to be on the new board because you would need that to do beyond 7.1.

"I think anyone wanting to do this can just use Shawn Fogg's modified players."

If you have the HDMI input just get an Oppo and use its own HDMI output with DSD->PCM conversion. My mods are for those that don't have HDMI.

Shawn

I spoke with Carl and he confirmed Bitstreaming DTS MA HD & Dolby TRU HD is included along with LPCM.

Oh yeah!

Man this show blows. Nothing really exciting other than our CB3 HDMI news.

"I think anyone wanting to do this can just use Shawn Fogg's modified players."

If you have the HDMI input just get an Oppo and use its own HDMI output with DSD->PCM conversion. My mods are for those that don't have HDMI.

Shawn

Talk about Shawn being honest and not tryin' to sell you his product if you can do it "better" another way!!!@@@@:p

I spoke with Carl and he confirmed Bitstreaming DTS MA HD & Dolby TRU HD is included along with LPCM.

Oh yeah!

Man this show blows. Nothing really exciting other than our CB3 HDMI news.

It all sounds good for the CBIII. I just wish they would get an official press release out already! :)

Sean

Is your wife looking over your shoulder as you type or see you looking for brownie points?

Jeff, at the time of your post, we just finished watching the DVR of McCain's speech. Had a nice dinner of Cuban Mojito Ceviche, Duck Breast with Red Long Beans, Hearts of Palm, and Pea Greens which was accompanied by a 2005 Justin Paso Robles Cabernet. Then off to Bed. Cheers. Norm

Thanks Norm and Ash. My only concern is Dolby PPLLIIx processing. Will the new board be able to apply any form of post processing to expand a 5.1 24/96 track to 7.1? The current DDPPLLIIx board can only go to 5.1 24/96. The major advantage for me to having my CB upgrading would be the ability to expand 5.1 tracks to 7.1 which I can not do with any current Blu-ray players. Norm your comments of 7.1 or great imply that some form of post-processing is going to be on the new board because you would need that to do beyond 7.1.
Bulldogger, just leaving to go, I'll see what I can find out for you. Regards, Norm

Jeff, at the time of your post, we just finished watching the DVR of McCain's speech. Had a nice dinner of Cuban Mojito Ceviche, Duck Breast with Red Long Beans, Hearts of Palm, and Pea Greens which was accompanied by a 2005 Justin Paso Robles Cabernet. Then off to Bed. Cheers. Norm

Good pick on the wine. Justin is an excellent cab at a bargain price. I have a case of the '02.:)

So I guess it would be too much to hope for room correction?

Dang, what a dilemma. I sort of rely on room correction now….

So I guess it would be too much to hope for room correction?

Dang, what a dilemma. I sort of rely on room correction now….

Ian, the problem is Theta is working hard and fast to add HDMI 1.3 audio. Any other changes will slow this down.

But I hope Theta puts this on the list for the future. I have strongly advised this to them.

I spoke with Carl and he confirmed Bitstreaming DTS MA HD & Dolby TRU HD is included along with LPCM.

Oh yeah!

Man this show blows. Nothing really exciting other than our CB3 HDMI news.

Wow but what news!:) If you already have the dacs,then you only need to invest 3500.00 more. The value of used CBIIIs with the proper dacs, just went up. I'll need to buy one more card to do 7.1 as I'm using one Standard balanced card which is not supported, on my EX channels. I did not want to invest in more dacs until I saw what the future held. Gustav is cost me a bit of money from some damage to rental property but almost no damage to my home. My little pole dancer too, yeah Norm you aren't the only one:D, demands generated power! Power still out here. With an all electric subdivision, and a gas powered generator, that means gas at 3.65 a gallon and about 3 gallons an hours at my current rate of house cooling pole dancer AC.

Wow but what news!:) If you already have the dacs,then you only need to invest 3500.00 more. The value of used CBIIIs with the proper dacs, just went up. I'll need to buy one more card to do 7.1 as I'm using one Standard balanced card which is not supported, on my EX channels. I did not want to invest in more dacs until I saw what the future held. Gustav is cost me a bit of money from some damage to rental property but almost no damage to my home. My little pole dancer too, yeah Norm you aren't the only one:D, demands generated power! Power still out here. With an all electric subdivision, and a gas powered generator, that means gas at 3.65 a gallon and about 3 gallons an hours at my current rate of house cooling pole dancer AC.

There's a lotta "Poles" dancin' around the country over this Theta Digital news. My mom's side is Polish. My dad's side is Russian. So I can "Pole" dance with the best!! HAAAAA!!!

software is being readied by a company called 'Momentum' which is a high end provider to the industry (supposedly they have a booth in CEDIA).

Wink wink, is this from momentum data systems?

$3500 for HDMI 1.3 processing upgrade is outstanding!!!

I assume this is just the card and no DAC's, why so much?

Of course, the only thing more amazing would be if Doug Winsor bought one. The odds of that are like MoveOn.Org folks voting for McCain/Palin.

Well if you convince me that theta runs better DAC's then the integra 9.8 and the likes then I would take a serious look.

No DSD signal transfer or D/A is planned in either the CBIII or the Gen VIII due to the waning interest in SACD.

This is common support I wonder why they did not go for it, then again the DAC's do not support it since they are the BB1704's.

I spoke to Harmon and there are no plans to go 1.3a or later, and no plans to decode raw bitstreams of the new codecs. This goes for both Lexicon & the multi Kilo-Buck Levinson. So far the number of Pre/Pros from the high end companies that can decode the new codecs as well as handle LPCM are few and far between.

Any news from Sim Audio. Will their new surround processor decode the new codecs or just do LPCM?

Why would lex change anything since LPCM and bitstream will give you the same resault.

Doug, be happy with your low fi and please stay out of our hi fi threads!!!! HA!

Someday Lex and Halcro will bring aboard brand new surround processors with the latest HDMI bitstream processing.
They aren't doing this now as they were first to boot for LPCM and HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 but it would take a significant hardware change to move to HDMI 1.3.

Within 2-3 years they will do this. And probably sooner now that Theta Digital and Halcro and doing it?

And when they do, you will not need to upgrade or spend money because your low fi ear/brain combo couldn't hear the difference anyway.
Enjoy what you have.

Someday Lex and Halcro will bring aboard brand new surround processors with the latest HDMI bitstream processing.
They aren't doing this now as they were first to boot for LPCM and HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 but it would take a significant hardware change to move to HDMI 1.3.

Since you are so hung up on bitstreaming why don't you tell me why you perfer bitstream over LPCM.

And when they do, you will not need to upgrade or spend money because your low fi ear/brain combo couldn't hear the difference anyway.

Really? So now you have mover onto "personal" attacks.

There's a lotta "Poles" dancin' around the country over this Theta Digital news. My mom's side is Polish. My dad's side is Russian. So I can "Pole" dance with the best!! HAAAAA!!!

Yeah, Steve your a pretty big guy so I can see the ancestry.

Good pick on the wine. Justin is an excellent cab at a bargain price. I have a case of the '02.:)

Jeff, we're Wine Club Members there, and we are awaiting our allotment of Isosceles Reserve for the Year. One of our favorites:). Regards, Norm

So I guess it would be too much to hope for room correction?

Dang, what a dilemma. I sort of rely on room correction now….
Room correction could theoretically be inserted at the Digital output point, but Theta doesn't recommend it as it could cause level matching issues as well as reduction of SQ. They suggest in the analogue domain if you must. Maybe the new Audyssey balanced unit. Regards, Norm

Jeff, we're Wine Club Members there, and we are awaiting our allotment of Isosceles Reserve for the Year. One of our favorites:). Regards, Norm
Justin Isosceles. Yuuuuuummmmmmmmm. Absolutely delicious.

Really? So now you have mover onto "personal" attacks.

That was my "low fi" attack???

Wait until you hear my "hi fi" attack.

Better yet, my "theta hi fi" attack.

Even better, my "theta hi fi" attack drinking that wine watchin' Norm's pole dancer.

Thanks Norm and Ash. My only concern is Dolby PPLLIIx processing. Will the new board be able to apply any form of post processing to expand a 5.1 24/96 track to 7.1? The current DDPPLLIIx board can only go to 5.1 24/96. The major advantage for me to having my CB upgrading would be the ability to expand 5.1 tracks to 7.1 which I can not do with any current Blu-ray players. Norm your comments of 7.1 or great imply that some form of post-processing is going to be on the new board because you would need that to do beyond 7.1.

Bulldogger, they said to me "That's a good question." With further thought they said that it would probably be up to the Codec providers whether they make that available, but since very little material is in true 7.1 some sort processing to provide 7.1 channels. With Dolby probably PPLLIIx, and with DTS some sort of Neo 6. It seems the protocols will be up to them, and Theta will give you what's given to them. Hope that helps. Regards, Norm

Norm and Ash, thanks for the great info!!!!@@@@

Any news from Sim Audio. Will their new surround processor decode the new codecs or just do LPCM?
Steve, the Sim will be 1.3x and will decode the new bitstreams. Available about Oct. 15. Price ~$18,000. Regards, Norm

Wink wink, is this from momentum data systems?



I assume this is just the card and no DAC's, why so much?



Well if you convince me that theta runs better DAC's then the integra 9.8 and the likes then I would take a serious look.



This is common support I wonder why they did not go for it, then again the DAC's do not support it since they are the BB1704's.



Why would lex change anything since LPCM and bitstream will give you the same resault.

It's about time you stop looking at things, and seriously listen to them. Maybe then you would get what this Forum is all about.

It's about time you stop looking at things, and seriously listen to them. Maybe then you would get what this Forum is all about.

How do you expect him to listen to you or me when he doesn't even "listen" to his own audio? Just as likely as the Pope converting to Judaism!!!@@@

Its much more likely that Mark Haflich is in Denver at CEDIA conversing with his favorite pole dancers right now.

Room correction could theoretically be inserted at the Digital output point, but Theta doesn't recommend it as it could cause level matching issues as well as reduction of SQ. They suggest in the analogue domain if you must. Maybe the new Audyssey balanced unit. Regards, Norm

This is the answer to most of what I was asking in my last long winded post.
Sorry, but this seems all very exciting to me right now. As you must realize that most of us who bought a new CBIII within the last 2 yrs. took a mighty big gamble on Theta comming through.

Continuing long winded post...

I was assuming the only way to accomplish room correction was with the digi-out card, which would then necessitate the use of all Gen VIII's.

I'm still not quite grasping how Room correction will be connected to the CBIII in the analogue domain.
Since your saying ""Maybe" the new Audyssey balanced unit", (which I'm not familiar with), this must mean it's to be inserted between DAC outputs and amp?
And what might be the drawbacks to utilizing room correction in this fashion, since you say "if you must"?

Thanks for all the great info thus far, this is what I've been holding my breath to hear since I placed the order. :)
And apologizing for another long post.

This is the answer to most of what I was asking in my last long winded post.
Sorry, but this seems all very exciting to me right now. As you must realize that most of us who bought a new CBIII within the last 2 yrs. took a mighty big gamble on Theta comming through.

Continuing long winded post...

I was assuming the only way to accomplish room correction was with the digi-out card, which would then necessitate the use of all Gen VIII's.

I'm still not quite grasping how Room correction will be connected to the CBIII in the analogue domain.
Since your saying ""Maybe" the new Audyssey balanced unit", (which I'm not familiar with), this must mean it's to be inserted between DAC outputs and amp?
And what might be the drawbacks to utilizing room correction in this fashion, since you say "if you must"?

Thanks for all the great info thus far, this is what I've been holding my breath to hear since I placed the order. :)
And apologizing for another long post.
Brother, I'm an Audyssey Dealer, but also a purist. I use it all the time with Denon as well as Onkyo, & Integra. However when we use components at the level of Theta, Audio Research, and the like, I think they do more harm than good to the Harmonic Content, Air, FR, Imaging, Three Dimensionality, Dynamic Range,and overall Musicality. These are the things I value in High End Components, and I am loathe to put a filter in the transmission of these qualities. Regards, Norm

There's a lotta "Poles" dancin' around the country over this Theta Digital news. My mom's side is Polish. My dad's side is Russian. So I can "Pole" dance with the best!! HAAAAA!!!
Steve, it's good you're a counselor to negotiate after what Stalin did with Hitler to Poland. Ha.:p

It's off to Vegas for me and my Pole Dancer for tommorrow night. Dinner at Bobby Flay's Mesa Grill with a fine red of my choosing, follwed by a pole dance which will happen there and goes home with me. I'll be back on Sunday PM. Wish us a safe journey. Norm

It's off to Vegas for me and my Pole Dancer for tommorrow night. Dinner at Bobby Flay's Mesa Grill with a fine red of my choosing, follwed by a pole dance which will happen there and goes home with me. I'll be back on Sunday PM. Wish us a safe journey. Norm

Have a safe journey and spend your dream on your pole dancer, not on the Theta HDMI 1.3 upgrade. Those dreams can wait a few days!

Brother, I'm an Audyssey Dealer, but also a purist. I use it all the time with Denon as well as Onkyo, & Integra. However when we use components at the level of Theta, Audio Research, and the like, I think they do more harm than good to the Harmonic Content, Air, FR, Imaging, Three Dimensionality, Dynamic Range,and overall Musicality. These are the things I value in High End Components, and I am loathe to put a filter in the transmission of these qualities. Regards, Norm

And all these horrible side effects of using whatever kind of room correction in the analog domain, they are I assume from circumventing the pure output of the Xtreme DACS and having to go through some kind of A/D and D/A conversions with much poorer quality DACS in a room correction device?

Which is why I figured it needed to be done before the DACS utilizing a digi-out card, meaning the all Gen VIII's configuration after a room correction device but now you're also saying that this isn't even a good solution as according to Theta, this method also has the tendency of destroying SQ., for whatever reason, aside from some other issues concerning level matching.

I was just hoping to avoid the inevitable awhile longer. You know, the properly designed room thing, so electronic room correction would not be very important or even necessary.
There is just no simple way around it I'm afraid, if I insist on using higher quality gear! Bummer, well discussion closed.

I was just hoping to avoid the inevitable awhile longer. You know, the properly designed room thing, so electronic room correction would not be very important or even necessary.
There is just no simple way around it I'm afraid, if I insist on using higher quality gear! Bummer, well discussion closed.
Bass correction is what most are doing. If it were full room correction then you could use it to correct for a center speaker placed behind a perforated screen but you can not. Since what we are really talking about is just bass correction why don't you start with a Velodyne SMS-1. No it's not as advanced as room correction but it will take you most of the way "there." Cross your subs at 80hz and you may also, which I advise, add room treatments. The biggest problem in most rooms are the bass frequencies so it would not surprise me that just adding either the Velodyne or a parametric eq.will satisfy most. I prefer an analog parametric eq like a Rane PE17. You can get one of those for no more than 150.00 on ebay used. The Velodyne is very easy to use as it autocalibrates. You just have to set the mike up. The parametric eq is more precise as you can dail in exactly where the problem frequencies are and hit some that the Velodyne is not precise enough to "hit". Either DIY or pre-made fiberglass aborption panels can get the job done from about 100hz up. Easiest solution is Real Traps and the Velodyne or parametric eq if you have the patience and want to save some money. IMO the room sounds better with the Rane. Factor in the price of the Real traps and parametric Eq vs room correction that will not likely go above 300hz. Room treatments help with all frequencies. Some electronic correction will always be necessary for most rooms. You can just have the best of both worlds.

Check this out.... More info would had been nice, but at least it is in the spotlight! Marketing Department, ATI/Theta Digital, please get webs sights up to date! This will help generate more $$$

http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/cedia2008/i_got_some_good_news_and/

Bass correction is what most are doing. If it were full room correction then you could use it to correct for a center speaker placed behind a perforated screen but you can not. Since what we are really talking about is just bass correction why don't you start with a Velodyne SMS-1. No it's not as advanced as room correction but it will take you most of the way "there." Cross your subs at 80hz and you may also, which I advise, add room treatments. The biggest problem in most rooms are the bass frequencies so it would not surprise me that just adding either the Velodyne or a parametric eq.will satisfy most. I prefer an analog parametric eq like a Rane PE17. You can get one of those for no more than 150.00 on ebay used. The Velodyne is very easy to use as it autocalibrates. You just have to set the mike up. The parametric eq is more precise as you can dail in exactly where the problem frequencies are and hit some that the Velodyne is not precise enough to "hit". Either DIY or pre-made fiberglass aborption panels can get the job done from about 100hz up. Easiest solution is Real Traps and the Velodyne or parametric eq if you have the patience and want to save some money. IMO the room sounds better with the Rane. Factor in the price of the Real traps and parametric Eq vs room correction that will not likely go above 300hz. Room treatments help with all frequencies. Some electronic correction will always be necessary for most rooms. You can just have the best of both worlds.

I am doing most of those things now. Subs are crossed at 80 for some but not all sources and I use 2 of Velodynes DD series subs in the front, so some EQ is there.

I just added my old Revel Sub-15 back into the system, in the rear, for better or worse, I don't really know yet but thought I'd give it a try.
Also, recently moved from Maggies front and rear to Aerial Mdl.9's F&R and let me tell you, that changes everything about the room all by itself.
Where the maggies needed those bare walls to work right, now, NOT!

So it's looking like correcting the room with traps and the like is my only real option. I was just looking for that quick and easy electronic fix.
Woulda been alot less work for me to just push a button. :)

Check this out.... More info would had been nice, but at least it is in the spotlight! Marketing Department, ATI/Theta Digital, please get webs sights up to date! This will help generate more $$$

http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/cedia2008/i_got_some_good_news_and/

I liked Ash's price better. $3,500 as opposed to the reported $4,000

Theta? HDMI? Enough said. Found this in Stereophile

http://www.stereophile.com/news/090508cedia1/

Check this out.... More info would had been nice, but at least it is in the spotlight! Marketing Department, ATI/Theta Digital, please get webs sights up to date! This will help generate more $$$

http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/cedia2008/i_got_some_good_news_and/

The Ultimate AV Mag blurb only discusses HDMI switching. But I posted a comment there giving them our info here from AVS.:D

Theta? HDMI? Enough said. Found this in Stereophile

http://www.stereophile.com/news/090508cedia1/

Not only did Stereophile get a better picture of the rear panel then Ultimateavmag.com did (and the side where the card actually is) but it sounds like their published price is more in line with what we've been told.

Speaking of the Stereophile picture, did anyone notice a gold looking thing on the right side of the HDMI input?
What do you suppose that is?
Some sort of locking tab perhaps!

Not only did Stereophile get a better picture of the rear panel then Ultimateavmag.com did (and the side where the card actually is) but it sounds like their published price is more in line with what we've been told.

Speaking of the Stereophile picture, did anyone notice a gold looking thing on the right side of the HDMI input?
What do you suppose that is?
Some sort of locking tab perhaps!

I can't tell the color from the photos, but each HDMI input is sideways with a little circular jobbie to the right. Sounds like they are the newer locking HDMI
connections, where you can tighten the little circular jobbie to the right of the HDMI and it locks in the cable. To use the little circular jobbie you have to buy a HDMI cable that specially comes with the circular jobbie.

I can't tell the color from the photos, but each HDMI input is sideways with a little circular jobbie to the right. Sounds like they are the newer locking HDMI
connections, where you can tighten the little circular jobbie to the right of the HDMI and it locks in the cable. To use the little circular jobbie you have to buy a HDMI cable that specially comes with the circular jobbie.

OK, blew it up as much as I can and the round gold do-hickie is the same round gold do-hickie as on the RS-232 for screwing that thing-a-mabob in.

I bought my CB 1 in 1999 it is now a CB3 with 3 Extreme cards, along with 3 Citadel 1.5 (upgraded from citadel 1. 0) to power my 3 front speakers and my dreadnaught with 6 channels to power surrounds.... In Theta's prologix 2 mode .... the audio is divine.
Theta is offering a upgrade to the Dreadnaught too, but the other day I was at CEDIA I was so excited hear about the HDMI upgrade I forgot to ask them about the Dreadnaught upgrade....
Which High End Audio company can support upgrades of its products through such a long product life cycle.... it is great to be a Theta user and loyalist...
Frankly, my system sounds so good today and Theta can process to 7.1 in prologic... I am not sure what improvements we can hear when the HDMI upgrade comes. .
Thanks Theta....

I bought my CB 1 in 1999 it is now a CB3 with 3 Extreme cards, along with 3 Citadel 1.5 (upgraded from citadel 1. 0) to power my 3 front speakers and my dreadnaught with 6 channels to power surrounds.... In Theta's prologix 2 mode .... the audio is divine.
Theta is offering a upgrade to the Dreadnaught too, but the other day I was at CEDIA I was so excited hear about the HDMI upgrade I forgot to ask them about the Dreadnaught upgrade....
Which High End Audio company can support upgrades of its products through such a long product life cycle.... it is great to be a Theta user and loyalist...
Frankly, my system sounds so good today and Theta can process to 7.1 in prologic... I am not sure what improvements we can hear when the HDMI upgrade comes. .
Thanks Theta....

Long Post But Heartfelt Ending...

I bought my CBI, I think it was around the end of 96 and never got around to being able to upgrade it, it also being near the beginning of having to put 4 kids through collage.
It's wonderful that Theta was able to make something that worked and still sounded good after so many years, though they did do some minor upgrades for free during that time.

Finally, everybody got outta school 2yrs ago and I went ahead and just bought a new CBIII at a time when everyone was holding off buying anything new because of the question about HDMI.
I told myself not to worry about it because, afterall, this thing is a Casablanca!
Theta had never really left anyone in the lurch before, they even had a program for the discontinued Casa Nova, I was sure they'd do the right thing for us with HDMI.
Of course it turned out more nerve racking then I counted on but here we all are.
Our investment fully protected and waiting for the biggest change in A/V equipt since 2 channels turned into 5.1

Although my old CBI is just collecting dust, I'm not even going to consider what to do with it until my new CBIII comes home with an HDMI card.
I don't know what I'd do with myself while it was out for upgrade otherwise.

I could not have made a better choice in audio gear then to stay with Theta after I traded in my Levinson preamp for that 1st Casablanca.

I'm very grateful to Theta for remaining true to their original promise through this very difficult time.
And I know I speak for alot of people that will never post here when I say that, since this thread has had almost 6,000 hits, with less then 200 posts in just 2 weeks, with no real news until 24hrs. ago. That says something!

Few questions...

1) Beside the HDMI card we are paying for $3.5K, I think and hope it is included the front face plate that can do the TrueHD, DTS MA and LPCM indication lights that our CBIII does not have today.

2) I currently have Xtreme & Supreme II DAC in my CBIII. What do you guys think about getting rid of the Supreme II DAC for all the rear channels and get the premium DAC? The only reason why I want to do that is from 5.1 to 7.1. If I do that will Theta send me back the premium II DAC? Will I able to resell to anyone?

3) It seems to me that there are a lot of CBIII users here want to do this upgrade as soon as become available. I wonder is there anyway we can do/start a discount group buy from Norm and/or Craig?

Thank you for all the good news that this thread provided lately.

Few questions...

1) Beside the HDMI card we are paying for $3.5K, I think and hope it is included the front face plate that can do the TrueHD, DTS MA and LPCM indication lights that our CBIII does not have today.

2) I currently have Xtreme & Supreme II DAC in my CBIII. What do you guys think about getting rid of the Supreme II DAC for all the rear channels and get the premium DAC? The only reason why I want to do that is from 5.1 to 7.1. If I do that will Theta send me back the premium II DAC? Will I able to resell to anyone?

3) It seems to me that there are a lot of CBIII users here want to do this upgrade as soon as become available. I wonder is there anyway we can do/start a discount group buy from Norm and/or Craig?

Thank you for all the good news that this thread provided lately.

Seems pretty quiet here tonight so I'll give this a shot. Someone will correct
me if I'm wrong.

Question 1.
If those formats are in your machine, I'm pretty sure it's going to be on the panel for reasons of licencing, rather then to just give you more lights.

Question 2
"will Theta send me back the premium II DAC?" I think you meant to say Superior II.

You'll get back all your old cards and of course any new cards you buy.
I'd be very surprised if you couldn't resell a card that works for the HDMI upgrade as so many people will need new cards and plenty will be on the lookout for ones on the cheap.

Question 3
You'll need to hear that from one of those guys but my best guess for a group discount on an upgrade would be a big NO! I'd be very happy if one of those guys might get us some kind of discount though.

You Should recieve, as in the past, a discount on all the stuff you buy during an upgrade. Like that DAC card you want. The usual discount, at least dealing direct with the factory was 15%. I don't know what a dealer was able to give since I did not have one untill I met Craig. I was 10yrs without a dealer.

Good Luck

Few questions...

1) Beside the HDMI card we are paying for $3.5K, I think and hope it is included the front face plate that can do the TrueHD, DTS MA and LPCM indication lights that our CBIII does not have today.

2) I currently have Xtreme & Supreme II DAC in my CBIII. What do you guys think about getting rid of the Supreme II DAC for all the rear channels and get the premium DAC? The only reason why I want to do that is from 5.1 to 7.1. If I do that will Theta send me back the premium II DAC? Will I able to resell to anyone?

3) It seems to me that there are a lot of CBIII users here want to do this upgrade as soon as become available. I wonder is there anyway we can do/start a discount group buy from Norm and/or Craig?

Thank you for all the good news that this thread provided lately.


If you replace a DAC card of course you get to keep the old DAC card that you had previously paid for. And you can then sell it.

Re a discount on the upgrade, I suggest you PM or e-mail Norm or Craig but keep it off the forum as discussing that on the forum (other than MSRP pricing) is against forum rules. Keep in mind that historically Theta has had upgrade prices at lower margins than new pricing so you generally can't bargain as much on upgrades.

Re the display and whether it requires replacing, that's a good question.
Norm or Craig, please find out when you have a chance. Thanks.

Yes the front display will need to be changed for the new logos. They do light up. All units need to be sent back to the factory for the upgrade meaning you can't just insert the HDMI board in slot 2 and it will work.

Question 1.
If those formats are in your machine, I'm pretty sure it's going to be on the panel for reasons of licencing, rather then to just give you more lights.

Thanks for the reply. My question on number 1 was more to point out that we WILL need to have different front plate since our current CBIII plate has no new format indication lights there.

Re a discount on the upgrade, I suggest you PM or e-mail Norm or Craig but keep it off the forum as discussing that on the forum (other than MSRP pricing) is against forum rules. Keep in mind that historically Theta has had upgrade prices at lower margins than new pricing so you generally can't bargain as much on upgrades.
Okay. Craig and Norm, Will PM you guys soon. Thx!

Re the display and whether it requires replacing, that's a good question.
Norm or Craig, please find out when you have a chance. Thanks.
Norm or Craig, thanks in advance.

Thanks for the reply. My question on number 1 was more to point out that we WILL need to have different front plate since our current CBIII plate has no new format indication lights there.

Yes I understand that we'll need a new plate in the display but again, I'm pretty sure the reasoning behind putting them on the machine in the first place is for licencing purposes.

Have you seen some of the machines around that have everything in the world in them? You can bearly see what the front panel looks like! Licencing is the only reason I can think of to deface a peice of equipt. like that.

On the Pioneer Kuro Elite TV's they did a very cool thing, they put those logo's on the thin top edge of the set so the only time you ever have to see them is when it comes out of the box.

Maybe this question has alreadt been addressed(it's very late)--but I thought that 1.3 permitted a digital transmission of either SACD or DVD-A. Certainly, if that's true, then the Six-Shooter becomes a paperweight.

Nick :cool:

Maybe this question has alreadt been addressed(it's very late)--but I thought that 1.3 permitted a digital transmission of either SACD or DVD-A. Certainly, if that's true, then the Six-Shooter becomes a paperweight.

Nick :cool:

Maybe this question has alreadt been addressed(it's very late)--but I thought that 1.3 permitted a digital transmission of either SACD or DVD-A. Certainly, if that's true, then the Six-Shooter becomes a paperweight.

Nick :cool:

According to Tyree91 in post 143, Theta said " No DSD signal transfer or D/A is planned in either the CBIII or the Gen VIII due to the waning interest in SACD".

But a modified machine such as the Oppo by Shawn Fogg will convert DSD to PCM to pass over HDMI.

Why don't you do that and sell me your paperweight real cheap!

Frankly, my system sounds so good today and Theta can process to 7.1 in prologic... I am not sure what improvements we can hear when the HDMI upgrade comes. .
Thanks Theta....

OH, Ash, you will hear it. Dolby TrueHD is an easy to hear improvement. I think you are going to finally get a signal for movies worthy of the equipment you have. These new formats have the potential to provide DVD-A/SACD level of sound quality along with an HD picture.

"--but I thought that 1.3 permitted a digital transmission of either SACD or DVD-A. Certainly, if that's true, then the Six-Shooter becomes a paperweight."

Just because 1.3 supports DSD transfer doesn't mean any 1.3 device automatically supports that. It is a possible feature not a requirement.

Shawn

"But a modified machine such as the Oppo by Shawn Fogg will convert DSD to PCM to pass over HDMI."

A stock Oppo will do this.

My modification adds 3 S/PDIF outputs that pass converted DSD to PCM as well as DVD-A at up to 192kHz. It is for those that don't have HDMI. For example someone with a Gen 8 that wants to use it with high resolution sources or Meridian owners...etc..etc.

Shawn

Shawn- could you PM with details about your Oppo modification when you have a moment. Thank you. I have a Gen VIII and am interested.

And I know I speak for alot of people that will never post here when I say that, since this thread has had almost 6,000 hits, with less then 200 posts in just 2 weeks, with no real news until 24hrs. ago. That says something!

HMMMMM. 6,000 * $3500 = $21,000,000. That's says something too.

Better get in line, boys.

Fortunately, I have the correct DACs to enable HDMI to work in my CBIII (1 Extreme & 1 Premium) I doubt I would keep the Six Shooter after the HDMI upgrade but selling a Six Shooter here in the UK would be difficult and the bigger American market would not want my 240V powered unit.

I am so pleased that this is all actually happening and all of my whining about Theta & HDMI a few months ago now seems a little rash! :o

Yes the front display will need to be changed for the new logos. They do light up. All units need to be sent back to the factory for the upgrade meaning you can't just insert the HDMI board in slot 2 and it will work.

Understood and my question/my point was I hope that is part of the $3.5K.

After I read 2nd time of this thread, it looks like some people want to have bit-stream over the LPCM.

I am a pure HTPC user and I don't have any stand alone player, not even PS3. All my sources are in the HDD in the HTPC. For the longest time, I use SPDIF send signal to my CB and since last 12 months all the BD has the TrueHD, DTS MA and LPCM signal to choose from therefore I have been dreaming my CB can do HDMI 1.3 one day. But it looks like this dream will become reality end of this year. During last few months, I use my HTPC ATI 4850 sent LPCM to my Integra 9.8 via HDMI 1.3 and it sounds VERY good. One of the thing a lot of people in AVS and AnyDVD forums have been discussed were TrueHD/DTS MA versus LPCM. I, again don't have any standalone player, can't do such comparison. But in the near future, end of this week, I will able to do that from new Asus Xonar HDMI sound card. This HTPC sound card will able to do PAP, non-convert signal from HTPC to pre-amp. I will sure to let you guys know. But I have a feeling that LPCM will be as good as the TrueHD or DTS MA from all the reading I read. But one way or the other if you reading this and still using your CB via anything other than HDMI, of course today, I can tell you that with my Integra, it sounds VERY good already and with Theta CBIII upgrade I can't begin to imagine how good this thing can be... Can't wait!!!

The Six Shooter will still be usable with the CB3 HDMI 1.3 audio upgrade. But there will be no need to use it for the new high resolution audio formats of Blu Ray (or HD DVD).
I will still use the Six Shooter for my Theta Compli for its multip-channel analog output of SACD and DVD-A. I have an Oppo 980, at least for now. I have an Oppo 980, but into my Integra 9.8 preamp processor, then multi-channel analog out to my Theta Six Shooter, it just doesn't sound as good as my Theta Compli multi-channel analog out to my Theta Six Shooter. Now once I get the upgraded HDMI 1.3 audio CB3, I may well find
(I bet I will) that using the Oppo to convert DSD to PCM out over HDMI to the CB3
will sound better. I will find out. But the Six Shooter still gives the CB3 a fantastic analog preamp with sound quality unmatched for that purpose by any other surround processor ever made or likely to be made - and for those in particular in need of a top notch stereo premp it will continue to work fantastically well as noted by our own Bulldogger.

Yea, I've been a Theta luver since I bought a Theta Generation V DAC back about 1994,
then sold that and got the Theta CB1 in early 1997 (and Theta Voyager back then),
and upgraded to CB2, then upgraded to Extreme DACs, then upgraded to CB3 with Six Shooter (and Compli) - - and now upcoming upgrade to HDMI 1.3 audio!!!

Not bad!!!

I am a little confused about the importance of having bitstream inputs for TrueHD and DTS MA. The Casablanca needs to use the extreme or premium or superior II DACS to process the new formats, but these DACS process LPCM signals. The new HDMI input board must therefore convert the HDMI input to LPCM. Is the advantage of being able to accept bitstream based on the likely superiority of the new input board doing this conversion as opposed to the conversion being done in the blu-ray player / transport?

Is a high-end conversion of the bitstream signal part of the justification of $3.5K for what some might cynically call a video switch?

Or is these a seriously dumb questions?

not a dumb question at all. And the basic answer is yes. There is the thought that having the conversion take place in the processor is superior to having it take place in the source. Generally, there's a lot of push back on that argument from those that feel that there is virually no difference between the two....which is probably why some companies are bypassing the option. The same debate was swimming around back in the late 80's and early 90's when D to A conversion was done inside the player with an analog signal sent to the pre amp. Then Theta challenged the debate by using outboard DACs and reducing the players to being transports. The difference was like night and day. It's a little more complicated than that in the bitstreaming vs LPCM debate but the basics are roughly the same.

I am a little confused about the importance of having bitstream inputs for TrueHD and DTS MA. The Casablanca needs to use the extreme or premium or superior II DACS to process the new formats, but these DACS process LPCM signals. The new HDMI input board must therefore convert the HDMI input to LPCM. Is the advantage of being able to accept bitstream based on the likely superiority of the new input board doing this conversion as opposed to the conversion being done in the blu-ray player / transport?

Is a high-end conversion of the bitstream signal part of the justification of $3.5K for what some might cynically call a video switch?

Or is these a seriously dumb questions?


Not dumb questions at all!!!

I don't know that it makes a difference whether the conversion to LPCM is done in the Blu Ray (or HD DVD) player or the surround processor. The same decoding chip/software will do that I would think whether in the player or processor. Its the DA conversion and analog ouptut state to analog amplifiers that makes the sonic difference@@

The Lexicon and Halcro surround processors can only do LPCM conversion because they came out EARLY when HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 was the standard.
So you must have a Blu Ray (or HD DVD) player which decodes to LPCM in the player if you use those surround processors.

Now that HDMI 1.3 is here, Theta is doing HDMI 1.3 which allows for LPCM decoding from the new high resolution audio formats in the surround processor.

Apparently Lexicon has mentioned they hope to have a new surround processor in a year or so with HDMI 1.3 audio to decode the new high resolution audio formats. Halcro has stated they have no plans - as of yet.

From a techie standpoint, yea its nice to have the surround processor do the HDMI 1.3 high resolution and have the processor display tell you what audio mode is being used. But you have to determine if its worth what it costs for you.

I am a little confused about the importance of having bitstream inputs for TrueHD and DTS MA. The Casablanca needs to use the extreme or premium or superior II DACS to process the new formats, but these DACS process LPCM signals. The new HDMI input board must therefore convert the HDMI input to LPCM. Is the advantage of being able to accept bitstream based on the likely superiority of the new input board doing this conversion as opposed to the conversion being done in the blu-ray player / transport?

Is a high-end conversion of the bitstream signal part of the justification of $3.5K for what some might cynically call a video switch?

Or is these a seriously dumb questions?


You don't need bitstreaming to make everything work. BD was designed with the idea that the audio is decoded in the player and from there on passed via LPCM.

If you do bitsreaming and let the processor handle the decoding, you won't get all audio from features like menu sounds, IME and other extras. To get all that, you will have to use LPCM. If you only care about the movie, you're fine.

In the end, your DACs will end up with LPCM anyway, so it's up to you if you decode in the player and everything works with LPCM from there on or if you pass bitstream to the processor, which decodes and creates LPCM. Both ways should give you identical results, unless one side screws up.

Now that's the BD side. Maybe one day there will be other formats that use the new audio codecs and if these can or should be decoded in the source as well remains to be seen.

With that said, I think decoding in the processor is a nice extra, but if you only have LPCM, you're not missing anything.

If I had to buy new, I'd look for a processor that can do everything. For an upgrade, LPCM only is fine, it wouldn't be a deal killer for me. If it could do the decoding, that'd be a nice extra.

not a dumb question at all. And the basic answer is yes. There is the thought that having the conversion take place in the processor is superior to having it take place in the source. Generally, there's a lot of push back on that argument from those that feel that there is virually no difference between the two....which is probably why some companies are bypassing the option.

WOOPS! I must beg to disagree. As I explained above. Companies are bypassing the HDMI 1.3 audio processing option right now only when they came to the dance earlier than Theta, when only HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 was available. Their existing models require significant hardware and monetary costs to upgrade to HDMI 1.3.

You don't need bitstreaming to make everything work. BD was designed with the idea that the audio is decoded in the player and from there on passed via LPCM.

If you do bitsreaming and let the processor handle the decoding, you won't get all audio from features like menu sounds, IME and other extras. To get all that, you will have to use LPCM. If you only care about the movie, you're fine.

In the end, your DACs will end up with LPCM anyway, so it's up to you if you decode in the player and everything works with LPCM from there on or if you pass bitstream to the processor, which decodes and creates LPCM. Both ways should give you identical results, unless one side screws up.

Now that's the BD side. Maybe one day there will be other formats that use the new audio codecs and if these can or should be decoded in the source as well remains to be seen.

With that said, I think decoding in the processor is a nice extra, but if you only have LPCM, you're not missing anything.

If I had to buy new, I'd look for a processor that can do everything. For an upgrade, LPCM only is fine, it wouldn't be a deal killer for me. If it could do the decoding, that'd be a nice extra.

Well said.

WOOPS! I must beg to disagree. As I explained above. Companies are bypassing the HDMI 1.3 audio processing option right now only when they came to the dance earlier than Theta, when only HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 was available. Their existing models require significant hardware and monetary costs to upgrade to HDMI 1.3.

disagreement noted

To clarify: We've been talkin' about digital decoding of the new high resolution audio codecs in the player (Blu Ray, HD DVD) and transmitting the digital LPCM over HDMI to the surround processor; vs not decoding in the player and transmitting the entire undecoded bitstream over HDMI 1.3 to the surround processor for LPCM decoding. With either approach, the DACs in the surround processor DA convert (to analog) the LPCM.

We have not been discussing using the player to both decode to LPCM and then to
DA convert to analog as a surround processor like the CB3 has better DACs and better for the decoding, and the CB3 has better analog output stages as well especially the Extreme DACs..

If you replace a DAC card of course you get to keep the old DAC card that you had previously paid for. And you can then sell it.

Re a discount on the upgrade, I suggest you PM or e-mail Norm or Craig but keep it off the forum as discussing that on the forum (other than MSRP pricing) is against forum rules. Keep in mind that historically Theta has had upgrade prices at lower margins than new pricing so you generally can't bargain as much on upgrades.

Re the display and whether it requires replacing, that's a good question.
Norm or Craig, please find out when you have a chance. Thanks.
Steve, just got home, and I haven't read all the posts yet. but I thought you guys would like an answer on the logos issue. It will have the new logos in the display window, and is included in the price. Part of the reason for the cost is that the CB III will need a lot of re-work inside to get the new card to talk to the DACs as well as the new software code to make everything work. I think in light of that it is fair, and this is the reason Dealers cannot do this Update in the field.
Also remember this will get you a complete up to date and tested unit which is also a added value. As for pricing Steve is correct, PM is the correct way to discuss that. Regards, Norm

The Six Shooter will still be usable with the CB3 HDMI 1.3 audio upgrade. But there will be no need to use it for the new high resolution audio formats of Blu Ray (or HD DVD).
I will still use the Six Shooter for my Theta Compli for its multip-channel analog output of SACD and DVD-A. I have an Oppo 980, at least for now. I have an Oppo 980, but into my Integra 9.8 preamp processor, then multi-channel analog out to my Theta Six Shooter, it just doesn't sound as good as my Theta Compli multi-channel analog out to my Theta Six Shooter. Now once I get the upgraded HDMI 1.3 audio CB3, I may well find
(I bet I will) that using the Oppo to convert DSD to PCM out over HDMI to the CB3
will sound better. I will find out. But the Six Shooter still gives the CB3 a fantastic analog preamp with sound quality unmatched for that purpose by any other surround processor ever made or likely to be made - and for those in particular in need of a top notch stereo premp it will continue to work fantastically well as noted by our own Bulldogger.
Steve, right again! This will free up the input to the SS that the Integra is using so my Oracle, ARC PH-5 vinyl combo can go back to the SS. A big improvement over the analogue inputs of the CB III. Regards, Norm

Steve, just got home, and I haven't read all the posts yet. but I thought you guys would like an answer on the logos issue. It will have the new logos in the display window, and is included in the price. Part of the reason for the cost is that the CB III will need a lot of re-work inside to get the new card to talk to the DACs as well as the new software code to make everything work. I think in light of that it is fair, and this is the reason Dealers cannot do this Update in the field.
Also remember this will get you a complete up to date and tested unit which is also a added value. As for pricing Steve is correct, PM is the correct way to discuss that. Regards, Norm

Thanks for the confirmation. PM sent.

Not dumb questions at all!!!

I don't know that it makes a difference whether the conversion to LPCM is done in the Blu Ray (or HD DVD) player or the surround processor. The same decoding chip/software will do that I would think whether in the player or processor. Its the DA conversion and analog ouptut state to analog amplifiers that makes the sonic difference@@

The Lexicon and Halcro surround processors can only do LPCM conversion because they came out EARLY when HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 was the standard.
So you must have a Blu Ray (or HD DVD) player which decodes to LPCM in the player if you use those surround processors.

Now that HDMI 1.3 is here, Theta is doing HDMI 1.3 which allows for LPCM decoding from the new high resolution audio formats in the surround processor.

Apparently Lexicon has mentioned they hope to have a new surround processor in a year or so with HDMI 1.3 audio to decode the new high resolution audio formats. Halcro has stated they have no plans - as of yet.

From a techie standpoint, yea its nice to have the surround processor do the HDMI 1.3 high resolution and have the processor display tell you what audio mode is being used. But you have to determine if its worth what it costs for you.
Steve, it would just make sense that the Theta doing the decoding of the bitstream should be better. They are almost surely going to use higher quality ancillary parts in the decoder section that a <$500 BD or HDDVD player, probably better than any cost player. Also Theta's massive power supply should keep these circuits more stable than any player. While I know this is just theoretical, I'd bet on it. We will hear soon. I do know there are many reports in the Audio Threads stating that bitstream decoded in a receiver or pre/pro sounds better than LPCM. At least Theta is taking this to the current limit of the art as it is now so we will have a choice.
As for Lexicon, I was told by two of their reps at the show that there are No plans for HDMI 1.3x for the Lexicon or Kilobuck Levinson. Regards, Norm

What about Theta Valis? Anyone who knows something about this long time ago announced processor from Theta?

Steve, it would just make sense that the Theta doing the decoding of the bitstream should be better. They are almost surely going to use higher quality ancillary parts in the decoder section that a <$500 BD or HDDVD player, probably better than any cost player. Also Theta's massive power supply should keep these circuits more stable than any player. While I know this is just theoretical, I'd bet on it. We will hear soon. I do know there are many reports in the Audio Threads stating that bitstream decoded in a receiver or pre/pro sounds better than LPCM. At least Theta is taking this to the current limit of the art as it is now so we will have a choice.
As for Lexicon, I was told by two of their reps at the show that there are No plans for HDMI 1.3x for the Lexicon or Kilobuck Levinson. Regards, Norm

Lexicon is working on their replacement to the MC-12. It's too early to say it will be released on __/_/__. It will hopefully be out in 2009. I just wish Lexicon would fix their HDMI issues. I also hope Theta does HDMI right so there are no pops when switching HDMI sources.

What are Lexicon's HDMI issues??

Understood and my question/my point was I hope that is part of the $3.5K.
FWIW the display upgrade was not part of the CBI to CBIII upgrade. That was extra $500 IIRC. Of course it's hard to say how new owners will handle this time.

FWIW the display upgrade was not part of the CBI to CBIII upgrade. That was extra $500 IIRC. Of course it's hard to say how new owners will handle this time.

That display was actually an option to the upgrade, you really didn't need to buy it, if you couldn't or didn't want it.

With this upgrade, it "appears" that it's just a plate in front of your existing display that will need to be changed. That's my take on it.

Somebody that's actually taken one apart or maybe at least opened their unit might know for sure.
I have not had to have that opportunity myself, nor the desire.

I was told at one point that the new flouresent display upgrade may have had a price increase as well.

$500 IIRC....IIRC not to mean "Isn't It Really Cool" I take it :rolleyes:

Lexicon is working on their replacement to the MC-12. It's too early to say it will be released on __/_/__. It will hopefully be out in 2009. I just wish Lexicon would fix their HDMI issues. I also hope Theta does HDMI right so there are no pops when switching HDMI sources.

Good. Hopefully the new version will be able to handle more than just 5.1 24/96 LPCM. They need to fix that too.

The ATI rep told me the upgrade was $4K. What's another 500 bucks?

BTW for $3500 you can buy the new Parasound C3 by CES 2009 (that's the timeline) or a Cary Audio C11a (I hope they don't kill it with a C11b 90 days latter :D).

I know, Extreme DACS, channel by channel tweeking, 6 pack (my bad six shooter) etc etc.

All kidding and jabbing aside the Theta always sounded top shelf when compared to all others.

What are Lexicon's HDMI issues??

Speaker popping when using other HDMI switching devices. Since you own a Lumagen, I'll share the story. I helped them procure a loaner MC-12. They discovered a problem with the Lex's HDMI handling. They shared how to correct it, but nothing has been announced/acknowledged.

Since you most likely have the Latest Radiance XD firmware... Lumagen themselves made a work around. Speaker pops on a $300K install is not acceptable due to switching HDMI devices.

That problem was a funny combination issue between the MC-12HD when used with a Radiance. With the Radiance out of the loop the popping wasn't there as you yourself posted on the Radiance forum about 5 months after I first brought this issue up. The later Radiance firmware resolved that.

Shawn

That problem was a funny combination issue between the MC-12HD when used with a Radiance. With the Radiance out of the loop the popping wasn't there as you yourself posted on the Radiance forum about 5 months after I first brought this issue up. The later Radiance firmware resolved that.

Shawn

Because of this configuration, Lumagen discovered a flaw in the way Lexicon handles HDMI.

"Because of this configuration, Lumagen discovered a flaw in the way Lexicon handles HDMI."

Or a flaw in the way Lumagen handled HDMI since the only place that problem occured was with the Lumagen in the loop. Either way that problem no longer exists.

Shawn

"Because of this configuration, Lumagen discovered a flaw in the way Lexicon handles HDMI."

Or a flaw in the way Lumagen handled HDMI since the only place that problem occured was with the Lumagen in the loop. Either way that problem no longer exists.

Shawn

Take it up with Jim Peterson. When they evaluated the HDMI protocol, they found Lexicon was doing it improperly. And Lumagen is one HDMI device. What happens to those that buy other HDMI devices/switchers? They have been told how to fix the problem. We'll see what happens.

Was gone for a week at the beach.

Just wanted to rewind 4 months ago. Theta lovers were feeling no love and were in a quandry about our favorite products.

Well we now have a G8 v2 and a CB3 with all the audio codecs. By far the products we wanted upgraded.

Just wanted to say bravo to ATI, and I agree with Steve that we are in the right hands here.

Paul

Was gone for a week at the beach.

Just wanted to rewind 4 months ago. Theta lovers were feeling no love and were in a quandry about our favorite products.

Well we now have a G8 v2 and a CB3 with all the audio codecs. By far the products we wanted upgraded.

Just wanted to say bravo to ATI, and I agree with Steve that we are in the right hands here.

Paul

Thats why early this year I added the Integra 9.8 to my CB3 stable. A nice sounding stop gap while Theta determined to do the real HDMI audio 1.3 upgrade. And given how the Integra on the new high resolutution audio formats is clearly superior to Dolby Digital with the CB3, this I believe has been a strong incentive for Theta to do this upgrade - otherwise, as The Bland has asserted, Theta's CB3 would have been history. NOW THE CB3
IS ONGOING AV HISTORY!!!@@@

Steve Bruzonsky

There are a lot of people in this thread that are saying incorrect things about LPCM and bitstream, steve do you think bitstream will sound better then LPCM?

Brother, I'm an Audyssey Dealer, but also a purist. I use it all the time with Denon as well as Onkyo, & Integra. However when we use components at the level of Theta, Audio Research, and the like, I think they do more harm than good to the Harmonic Content, Air, FR, Imaging, Three Dimensionality, Dynamic Range,and overall Musicality. These are the things I value in High End Components, and I am loathe to put a filter in the transmission of these qualities. Regards, Norm

Really? Why would this happen only with high end equipment?

they are I assume from circumventing the pure output of the Xtreme DACS and having to go through some kind of A/D and D/A conversions with much poorer quality DACS in a room correction device?

How do you know they are much poorer DACs? The theta runs BB 1704's which are a older production. How about you find out which DAC's are being used and then go from there.

According to Tyree91 in post 143, Theta said " No DSD signal transfer or D/A is planned in either the CBIII or the Gen VIII due to the waning interest in SACD".

I already posted why, theta and the use of BB 1704 DAC's do not support DSD and it is a hardware limitation.

Steve, it would just make sense that the Theta doing the decoding of the bitstream should be better. They are almost surely going to use higher quality ancillary parts in the decoder section that a <$500 BD or HDDVD player, probably better than any cost player. Also Theta's massive power supply should keep these circuits more stable than any player. While I know this is just theoretical, I'd bet on it. We will hear soon. I do know there are many reports in the Audio Threads stating that bitstream decoded in a receiver or pre/pro sounds better than LPCM. At least Theta is taking this to the current limit of the art as it is now so we will have a choice.

Do theta's DSP decoding and the 1's and 0's will be different then the 1's and 0's of other DSP processing?

Armand07,
the Valis was being shown at the ATI/Theta booth..it is my understanding from talking to Carl that the Valis will be available before the CBIII hdmi upgrade...Yes, Valis does have HDMI capability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_pulse_code_modulation

Read up on this link and you will find out why LPCM is lossless and no different then bitstream.

What about Theta Valis? Anyone who knows something about this long time ago announced processor from Theta?Yes, it was shown and it now has analog outputs to make it compatible with regular power amps.

Cool, were any specs distributed? The plaque is a little on the sparse side for details.

Cool, were any specs distributed? The plaque is a little on the sparse side for details.That's all I know. No handouts were offered.

There are a lot of people in this thread that are saying incorrect things about LPCM and bitstream, steve do you think bitstream will sound better then LPCM?



I don't know that the CB3 HDMI 1.3 will sound better due to decoding to LPCM in the processor, as opposed to decoding to LPCM in the player. Its possible that the CB3's better power supply, shielding, etc could make a sonic improvement in this one category, but I don't have the practical subjective ability to measure this or the objective engineering info to offer an opinion in this regard.

Based upon using various digital components over the years in my high resolution AV system, yes I am comfortable that having the Theta CB3 with Extreme DACs and fantastic analog output stage will sound appreciably better on high resolution audio formats than my current Integra 9.8, which sounds great already!!! Regardless of where the LPCM is processed. And once I get it in my system, I'll at some point do a trial of LPCM decoding inthe player vs the processor and tell you my subjective findings!!!

"Yes, it was shown and it now has analog outputs to make it compatible with regular power amps."

Did it also have the digital outs or was it analog only?

Shawn

I don't know that the CB3 HDMI 1.3 will sound better due to decoding to LPCM in the processor, as opposed to decoding to LPCM in the player. Its possible that the CB3's better power supply, shielding, etc could make a sonic improvement in this one category, but I don't have the practical subjective ability to measure this or the objective engineering info to offer an opinion in this regard.

So you know for sure that theta runs a "better" power supply, and how is a better power supply going to affect digital processing? So you just assume, did you read the link I posted?

Based upon using various digital components over the years in my high resolution AV system, yes I am comfortable that having the Theta CB3 with Extreme DACs and fantastic analog output stage will sound appreciably better on high resolution audio formats than my current Integra 9.8, which sounds great already!!! Regardless of where the LPCM is processed. And once I get it in my system, I'll at some point do a trial of LPCM decoding inthe player vs the processor and tell you my subjective findings!!!

Mr placebo.

"Yes, it was shown and it now has analog outputs to make it compatible with regular power amps."

Did it also have the digital outs or was it analog only?

ShawnYup. If you look hard, you can see them. ;)
Looks like 4xS/PDIF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_pulse_code_modulation

Read up on this link and you will find out why LPCM is lossless and no different then bitstream.
"This article needs additional citations for verification." Copied & Pasted directly from the Wikipedia article.
then > than