Alright guys, I love my Xbox 360.. its the best. The best online and chat etc. However, the noise is getting more and more on my nerves. I've actually turned the tide and started using my ps3 more. Why? because it gives a great gaming experience without something whirring around in the back, giving me a headache.

Every few months I hear about some sort of new chip coming out that is supposed to cool down the 360.. what about the damn noise!?!?!?! I'm not going to buy some stupid case mod to void my warranty, or replace the fan because the dvd-rom is so damn noisy too.

Alright, thanks for letting me vent.
Mo

My PS3 is as noisy as my 360...I think...

Anyways they will likely have a noe console before this happens. The new chip is out (isn't it), but that does not mean they changed the fan...is the fan linked to the temperature in the system or does it always run?

Anyways the size of current gen consoles should shrink as production methods change and I suspect that is a couple years away at least. Should go the way of the slim PS2.

The DVD drive is the problem, I doubt they'll lower the speed at which it spins since that would affect load times.

However, come November, you'll be able to install games to the hard drive, which then will result in no dvd spin/noise.

So November is the date to remember.

"remember, remember
the fifth of november..."

My PS3 is as noisy as my 360...I think...

Anyways they will likely have a noe console before this happens. The new chip is out (isn't it), but that does not mean they changed the fan...is the fan linked to the temperature in the system or does it always run?

Anyways the size of current gen consoles should shrink as production methods change and I suspect that is a couple years away at least. Should go the way of the slim PS2.


My PS3 is much quieter than my 360, but the 360 is still the best!

I agree that Microsoft is likely to come out with a "slim" version probably by next year some time. it'll likely have cheaper build quality but may be quieter at the same time.?

I do wish the system was quiet, but it doesn't really affect my gaming enjoyment.

Fool proof fix for a noisy console.......








Turn the volume up

:)

Mike is right.. works for me everytime!

Fool proof fix for a noisy console.......
Turn the volume up

:)

+1
But then you have to make a decision and listen to what annoys you least...

1)The DVD-ROM spinning
or
2) My wife yelling at me because the Surround Sound is way too loud and its scaring the dog.

Decisions, decisions....

That is perhaps my biggest problem with 360, I can still hear it even with my speakers turned up loud. Most of my friends consoles are as well, hopefully installing games will help that.

+1
But then you have to make a decision and listen to what annoys you least...

1)The DVD-ROM spinning
or
2) My wife yelling at me because the Surround Sound is way too loud and its scaring the dog.

Decisions, decisions....

Hmm, putting the wife and dog outside during game time may aid in that situation. Plus, I hear it is good to let them out once in a while.;)

+1
But then you have to make a decision and listen to what annoys you least...

1)The DVD-ROM spinning
or
2) My wife yelling at me because the Surround Sound is way too loud and its scaring the dog.

Decisions, decisions....

Does your dog run around crapping itself like the animals in castle crashers?

I usually have my volume up high enough that any words of nagging are drowned out.

Alright guys, I love my Xbox 360.. its the best. The best online and chat etc. However, the noise is getting more and more on my nerves. I've actually turned the tide and started using my ps3 more. Why? because it gives a great gaming experience without something whirring around in the back, giving me a headache.

Every few months I hear about some sort of new chip coming out that is supposed to cool down the 360.. what about the damn noise!?!?!?! I'm not going to buy some stupid case mod to void my warranty, or replace the fan because the dvd-rom is so damn noisy too.

Alright, thanks for letting me vent.
Mo

Problem is that it MS stuck with DVD drives and to get what they want out of them they have to be high speed drives. That is why Sony went with bluray. It is low speed drive so not has much noise. If Sony had used DVD it would be just as loud.

Anyway it is a hardware issue that MS isn't going to fix. So the best they came up with was to let us install games on the hard drive. It still requires the disk so it will still spin up at first but after that it will quiet down. Now this is supposed to come out in the Fall Update. When they will actually push the fall update no one knows. Most are guessing Novermber but it has come as late as December before. I think we all agree that it can't come too soon. ;)

"remember, remember
the fifth of november..."

Great flick. Easily one of my all time favorites.

bring it and send it back lol

i got the red rings and sent it back, came back nearly as quiet as my ps3

I can't wait until November. If you've played any demo on the 360 (or any game off the HDD) then you know what to expect. If there is a such thing as peaceful gaming, it will be had in November. :)

3 weeks or 15 business days.

I can't wait until November. If you've played any demo on the 360 (or any game off the HDD) then you know what to expect.

Ya, that "wawawawawa" sound of the duel 80mm fans. Those are annoying, not as bad as the DVD drive though.

Ya, that "wawawawawa" sound of the duel 80mm fans. Those are annoying, not as bad as the DVD drive though.

Stop sitting 3ft from your Xbox or buy headphones :p Who cares if you can't hear the baby!

I think when the fall update is release and we can install to the hard drive I will void my warranty and install new fans. Will probably get a RROD a week later :o

Stop sitting 3ft from your Xbox or buy headphones :p Who cares if you can't hear the baby!

I think when the fall update is release and we can install to the hard drive I will void my warranty and install new fans. Will probably get a RROD a week later :o

Do it, then you can do mine after you figure it out!

My new Elite is pretty much silent. The new DVD drives they are putting in the consoles are much more quiet than the older ones. And I can't really hear the fans. Couldn't hear them on my old 360, either.

I exchanged my 2006-11 model for a 2008-06 model and its quieter but not by much. You just have to grin and bare it or get a PS3.

The main problem with any of the Xbox noise threads is that everyone has their own meaning of what "silent" is. No offense to those that say their Xbox is "silent" but, that just means you have a non-silent enviroment, sit 20 ft from your Xbox, turn the sound way up, have slight hearing loss, etc. There is no way any of the current Xbox's are "silent".

If your PS3 is as loud as your Xbox then your PS3 has an issue. For gaming I like my Xbox a whole lot better than my PS3 but the PS3 does seem to have been built a little better.

The main problem with any of the Xbox noise threads is that everyone has their own meaning of what "silent" is. No offense to those that say their Xbox is "silent" but, that just means you have a non-silent enviroment, sit 20 ft from your Xbox, turn the sound way up, have slight hearing loss, etc. There is no way any of the current Xbox's are "silent".


I do sit about 13 feet from my XBox. And it sits inside a wooden entertainment center with no door in front of it (but it is closed on the other 5 sides). From where I sit, I can't hear it. That, to me, is "silent."

I also can't hear my PS3 from where I sit.

I could definitely hear my old 360 from November 2006. That DVD drive whistled like nobody's business. But I couldn't hear the fans. When I returned it to MS for a RROD repair a month ago, they returned my original console to me with a brand new DVD drive (I didn't ask for it). It was extremely quiet after that.

This new 360 that was built in May also has a very quiet DVD drive.

So not all 360s are the same, obviously. If you haven't heard one that is really quiet, perhaps you just haven't heard all of them yet. But understand that there may be 360s revisions out there that are quieter than the ones you have had experience with.

Of course, everyone's environment is going to be different. Perhaps there are changes to the environments that would help people, as well. Like not wearing your XBox 360 as a hat while playing Gears of War. ;)

Elites are loud as piss, same as the old ones, same as the non falcon elites.

xbox 360s are loud as piss.

My ps3 after it warms up sounds like something out of the JPL (Jet Propulsion Labs)...

Your room sucks if you think a xbox 360 isnt 10x louder than everything else in your cabinet. (or you have a 1000lb oak cabinet with no front)

I have 3 currently, they all piss me off. (one at work, one in theater, one in study)

How loud is piss, exactly?

Trying to take a stealth piss while drunk after banging your wifes bestfriend and throwing up in the sink loud.

Problem is that it MS stuck with DVD drives and to get what they want out of them they have to be high speed drives. That is why Sony went with bluray. It is low speed drive so not has much noise. If Sony had used DVD it would be just as loud.

Anyway it is a hardware issue that MS isn't going to fix. So the best they came up with was to let us install games on the hard drive. It still requires the disk so it will still spin up at first but after that it will quiet down. Now this is supposed to come out in the Fall Update. When they will actually push the fall update no one knows. Most are guessing Novermber but it has come as late as December before. I think we all agree that it can't come too soon. ;)


The Blu Ray drive would be louder if it had the same read ability. Unfortunately, the PS3 has very large mandatory installs for many games due to the lower disc speed. At least with the 360, I'll have a choice. Personally, the only game I have a big issue with as far as noise is COD4. It is SUPER LOUD and I don't notice the rest of the games after a few seconds.

Here is a pretty accurate test sound wise. I have owned 2 hitachi drives non falcon and now own a ben-q falcon based. The ben-q is more quieter but still loud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-0hkqq6wXQ

"remember, remember
the fifth of november..."

the gunpowder, treason and plot...

Like said above its the disc drive not the fan. I can't stand it either but since MS was more worried about getting to market first instead of whether the console even worked I doubt anything will be done with out a drastic redesign or kicking the core adopters in the nuts by making mandatory partial installs.

And while the PS3 can get a bit noisy if you play for excessively long periods I have never in a year and a half heard it get anywhere close to the noise in the box. Before I got a 360 I never understood why people thought the PS3 was so quiet then after I got one I realized its because they had a 360 first.

At the moment though the immentent thing about Microsoft that bothers me is their willingness to release untested patches on games. AKA NG2 patch. One play through test would have done the trick. Or else my system is an anamoly in that it froze in the exact same spot on 30 different occassions.

If your PS3 is as loud as your Xbox then your PS3 has an issue. If I played games, I like my Xbox a whole lot better than my PS3 but the PS3 does seem to have been built a little better.

Fixed for accuracy ;)

The Blu Ray drive would be louder if it had the same read ability. Unfortunately, the PS3 has very large mandatory installs for many games due to the lower disc speed.

Wow @ the FUD. All PS3 games have mandatory installs? Seems to me about 10 our of 150 do ATM. The reason for the install now is Sony changed the requirement (TCR) for load times, the response for the games which came out after the change was the installs. Why Sony changed it is in NDA, but with the backlash I suspect they will change it again.

The good news is the install is of the relevant data, which can be 2-3GB, but the 360 solution, while always optional is of the whole disc, much of that data is unrelated to load times (i.e. FMV).

The Blu Ray drive would be louder if it had the same read ability. Unfortunately, the PS3 has very large mandatory installs for many games due to the lower disc speed. At least with the 360, I'll have a choice. Personally, the only game I have a big issue with as far as noise is COD4. It is SUPER LOUD and I don't notice the rest of the games after a few seconds.

At the risk of starting a flame war, whats your point? Uncharted has 0 install data and it has 1 count them 1 load time during the whole game at the start (roughly 30 to 40 seconds) and it runs fine and never gets bogged down. Gears on the other hand boggs down the 360 at times and the disc drive reads faster so you really think it makes a huge difference?

The other is the PS3 games that do have installs are usually 3-5 gigs and take roughly 3 to 8 minutes of install time to complete. For some reason everyone wants to jump all over the DMC4 install that took 20 minutes to install even though it had roughly the same install size as GTA 4 the turn around is after playing DMC4 on the PS3 and 360 the PS3 version loads faster, one cutscene drops below 60fps for about 4 seconds vs the 360 dropping to 30fps a lot during cutscenes; gameplay is identical shy of the 360 litterally has load times in the PS3 doesn't. If HDD size is an issue you can buy a 250GB HDD from seagate for 78 bucks.

Don't get me wrong here I have both and I love both and I am not advocating one over the other I am just telling you my experience. Bottom line Microsoft SHOULD have put an HDD in every model and made mandatory installs, it would have made for less drive noise, less load times, and improved running.

Wow @ the FUD. All PS3 games have mandatory installs? Seems to me about 10 our of 150 do ATM. The reason for the install now is Sony changed the requirement (TCR) for load times, the response for the games which came out after the change was the installs. Why Sony changed it is in NDA, but with the backlash I suspect they will change it again.

The good news is the install is of the relevant data, which can be 2-3GB, but the 360 solution, while always optional is of the whole disc, much of that data is unrelated to load times (i.e. FMV).

He didn't say all

Wow @ the FUD. All PS3 games have mandatory installs? Seems to me about 10 our of 150 do ATM. The reason for the install now is Sony changed the requirement (TCR) for load times, the response for the games which came out after the change was the installs. Why Sony changed it is in NDA, but with the backlash I suspect they will change it again.

The good news is the install is of the relevant data, which can be 2-3GB, but the 360 solution, while always optional is of the whole disc, much of that data is unrelated to load times (i.e. FMV).

First off, I didn't say all. No FUD here, I have both systems and am going from experience. I have 12 PS3 games, and 6 have installs. I'll leave it at that.

Second off, the only title on my 360 that makes the drive so loud I can hear it with the surround sound on is COD4. My 98gb of available space will be plenty to handle that. The rest I will be comfortable with playing from the disc.

Bottom line Microsoft SHOULD have put an HDD in every model and made mandatory installs, it would have made for less drive noise, less load times, and improved running.

1) Bottom line because Microsoft didnt require a harddrive in every model, they now have a HD ready, next gen 360 that only cost $199 and will play 99.9% of its disc based library. It comes with a memory card and has every you need to play and save game progress. If a harddrive is not necessary to play games.. then why "SHOULD" it be required??

2) Bottom line most people here HATE mandatory game installs. If anything make it optional (which MS is doing this fall). Imagine the kid who has a 20 gig PS3 and has to constantly delete and install games just to get them to freakin work. Optional installs give you the choice of improved performance OR the convenience of just putting the disc in and playing.


People quickly forget the original Xbox which debuted 7 years ago in 2001 DID contain a harddrive in every unit. What MS already learned is it makes a console more expensive, less profitable and there are considerable amount of people who ONLY used the harddrive for game saves. Their research determined it wasnt necessary on the 360. And not including one allows them offer the cheapest next gen, HD ready console currently available.

I don't even notice it... I'm always hearing something whirring, whether it's my 360, projector, computer, aquarium filter, CRT in my bedroom (although that's more of a whine), car engine, microwave...

It's really not an issue these days :P

First off, I didn't say all. No FUD here, I have both systems and am going from experience. I have 12 PS3 games, and 6 have installs. I'll leave it at that.

Sorry, not all, "many". Of course it's a small fraction, but why be honest? Sounds like you own most of them.


Second off, the only title on my 360 that makes the drive so loud I can hear it with the surround sound on is COD4. My 98gb of available space will be plenty to handle that. The rest I will be comfortable with playing from the disc.

All 360 spin the DVD drive, the worst offenders (constantly seeking, running full RPM) are those that texture stream, mainly UE3 games like Mass Effect.

I will also enjoy the install feature, it is much needed. Too bad most 360 owners do not hae Elite like us, they will be out of luck.

Sorry, not all, "many". Of course it's a small fraction, but why be honest? Sounds like you own most of them.



All 360 spin the DVD drive, the worst offenders (constantly seeking, running full RPM) are those that texture stream, mainly UE3 games like Mass Effect.

I will also enjoy the install feature, it is much needed. Too bad most 360 owners do not hae Elite like us, they will be out of luck.

I have no problem with Mass Effect. My latest unit has the BenQ drive and while it spins just as fast, it doesn't have the buzz or humming sound of the Hitachi I had previously. It has a higher-pitched whine instead, and that is covered up by my surround sound.

Unreal Tournament 3 is actually not a mandatory install, but I did choose to install it because it improved the loading of the game. So, reduce my count to 5 mandatory installs.

1) Bottom line because Microsoft didnt require a harddrive in every model, they now have a HD ready, next gen 360 that only cost $199 and will play 99.9% of its disc based library. It comes with a memory card and has every you need to play and save game progress. If a harddrive is not necessary to play games.. then why "SHOULD" it be required??

2) Bottom line most people here HATE mandatory game installs. If anything make it optional (which MS is doing this fall). Imagine the kid who has a 20 gig PS3 and has to constantly delete and install games just to get them to freakin work. Optional installs give you the choice of improved performance OR the convenience of just putting the disc in and playing.


People quickly forget the original Xbox which debuted 7 years ago in 2001 DID contain a harddrive in every unit. What MS already learned is it makes a console more expensive, less profitable and there are considerable amount of people who ONLY used the harddrive for game saves. Their research determined it wasnt necessary on the 360. And not including one allows them offer the cheapest next gen, HD ready console currently available.

Thats BS I don't know a gamer one that wouldn't trade off having a game run faster and smoother at the expense of HDD space and 8 minutes of install time.

The thing is with the PS3 you don't have to buy HDD's from Sony like you do with Microsoft and the 360. As long as the HDD is 2.5" SATA it will work regardless of brand or spinning speed. I have two PS3's at home that I put 250 GB's in. Roughly 78 bucks per PS3. Yeah that may sound expensive but when I think back to the money spent on PS2 and Gamecube memory cards it really isn't. Microsoft was ahead of its time with putting a hard drive into the original X-Box but as far as the 360 goes they had forsight whatsoever I mean DVD9's and no HDD model are starting to show this.

It is what it is though. If you would rather trade higher frame rates for a lag fest thats cool. But what boat do you think owners of 360's with HDD's, like myself, will be in when we have to do full or no installs? I for one will take advantage of it but that 100GB of memory is gonna go super fast when I have to full install instead of partial and I will be left deleting all my data in order to play new games.

Thats BS I don't know a gamer one that wouldn't trade off having a game run faster and smoother at the expense of HDD space and 8 minutes of install time.

I'll probably install a few key 360 games. But I'll do it AFTER having played the game the first time. I dislike having to sit there and wait for the game to install. Instead, I'll play the game immediately. Then later that night, I'll start the install and go to bed or make dinner, etc... Best of both worlds right there. Faster loading and you don't have to wait to play the game.

The thing is with the PS3 you don't have to buy HDD's from Sony like you do with Microsoft and the 360.

If XBox games took multiple gigabytes for mandatory installs like the PS3 does for a lot of games, that would be more of an issue. It doesn't, though.

As long as the HDD is 2.5" SATA it will work regardless of brand or spinning speed. I have two PS3's at home that I put 250 GB's in. Roughly 78 bucks per PS3.

I've got an 80 GB PS3. I doubt I'll ever upgrade the hard drive. Then again, I only have 2 games for it (I have close to 30 for the 360).

But all of those 40 gigs out there, yeah, it is pretty much mandatory that you have to upgrade the hard drive if you buy a lot of games with installs. Unless you don't mind shuffling installs on and off the drive.


It is what it is though. If you would rather trade higher frame rates for a lag fest thats cool.


What? Hard drives have no affect on frame rates or lag.

But what boat do you think owners of 360's with HDD's, like myself, will be in when we have to do full or no installs? I for one will take advantage of it but that 100GB of memory is gonna go super fast when I have to full install instead of partial and I will be left deleting all my data in order to play new games.

There's no need to install all of your games. Just install a few that you play regularly.

I'm thinking that Gears of War 2 and Rock Band 2 will probably get installed, but that will be about it.

I'll probably install a few key 360 games. But I'll do it AFTER having played the game the first time. I dislike having to sit there and wait for the game to install. Instead, I'll play the game immediately. Then later that night, I'll start the install and go to bed or make dinner, etc... Best of both worlds right there. Faster loading and you don't have to wait to play the game.



If XBox games took multiple gigabytes for mandatory installs like the PS3 does for a lot of games, that would be more of an issue. It doesn't, though.



I've got an 80 GB PS3. I doubt I'll ever upgrade the hard drive. Then again, I only have 2 games for it (I have close to 30 for the 360).

But all of those 40 gigs out there, yeah, it is pretty much mandatory that you have to upgrade the hard drive if you buy a lot of games with installs. Unless you don't mind shuffling installs on and off the drive.



What? Hard drives have no affect on frame rates or lag.



There's no need to install all of your games. Just install a few that you play regularly.

I'm thinking that Gears of War 2 and Rock Band 2 will probably get installed, but that will be about it.


Um are you high? You ever played a PC game in your life? Run it from the disc and it can get choppy and suffer from being bogged down AKA lowering framerates. You partial install and the disc and the hard drive both process data so the game is much less likely to ever get bogged down. Hence why in MGS4 all hell can be breaking loose on the screen and not once will the frames per second drop.

Hell I quite buying multiplats for the 360 over the PS3 for simply that reason. Well controller preference too. Does Gears of War look amazing on my 52" HDTV? Hell yes! Does it get bogged down and pull when a lot is happening? Hell yes!

For a little self test buy Ninja Gaiden 2 (killer game by the by) and when the screen literally freezes at parts to process data and load new areas think back to this.

Thats BS I don't know a gamer one that wouldn't trade off having a game run faster and smoother at the expense of HDD space and 8 minutes of install time.

The thing is with the PS3 you don't have to buy HDD's from Sony like you do with Microsoft and the 360. As long as the HDD is 2.5" SATA it will work regardless of brand or spinning speed. I have two PS3's at home that I put 250 GB's in. Roughly 78 bucks per PS3. Yeah that may sound expensive but when I think back to the money spent on PS2 and Gamecube memory cards it really isn't. Microsoft was ahead of its time with putting a hard drive into the original X-Box but as far as the 360 goes they had forsight whatsoever I mean DVD9's and no HDD model are starting to show this.

It is what it is though. If you would rather trade higher frame rates for a lag fest thats cool. But what boat do you think owners of 360's with HDD's, like myself, will be in when we have to do full or no installs? I for one will take advantage of it but that 100GB of memory is gonna go super fast when I have to full install instead of partial and I will be left deleting all my data in order to play new games.


You do realize not every gamer needs EVERY feature YOU need to enjoy gaming right. You do realize not everyone cares about every spec of performance right.

You do realize you are EXXAGERATING about the "lag" because games run just fine on the 360 without a harddrive right. In fact many multiplatform titles run BETTER on the 360 than the do on the PS3.. right.

You do realize most console owners are kids and teenagers who just want to play the game right. A harddrive means nothing to them.

You do realize most PS3 owners are either not capable (or willing too) upgrade the PS3 harddrive by themselves right.

You do realize even Sony know this.. or thats why they keep pumping up the size of the PS3's HDD. Lets see 20, 40, 60, 80, now 160 gig. If its so convenient for every gamer in the world.. why wouldnt Sony just stick with a 40 gig harddrive and let people upgrade to bigger sizes themselves. After all its cheaper... right.

You do realize you admit MS had foresight to include a HDD with the original Xbox.. but they just somehow lost all that foresight with the 360 right. You really believe they dont know what they were doing with the 360?

You do realize the 360 has been profitable for over a year now.. where as the original Xbox was NEVER profitable right. Seems like MS is doing something right.. right?? lol

You do realize that with 100GB of storage, you can install about 15 full games right. Because a DVD9 has a maximum of about 8 gigs of storage and NOT every game uses the full 8 gigs of available storage space. In fact, many 360 games are only 4-6 GB's in size.. which would mean you could install about 20 of those full games.. right??

You do realize 360 HDD installs are OPTIONAL right.. that means you dont have to "be left deleting all my data in order to play new games" right?? You do realize many PS3 HDD installs are MANDATORY right? You do realize that means you may actually have to ""be left deleting all my data in order to play new games" on your PS3.. right????


But it doesnt matter to you because you are going to use all that 100GB "super fast"..

right?

right???

Um are you high? You ever played a PC game in your life? Run it from the disc and it can get choppy and suffer from being bogged down AKA lowering framerates. You partial install and the disc and the hard drive both process data so the game is much less likely to ever get bogged down. Hence why in MGS4 all hell can be breaking loose on the screen and not once will the frames per second drop.

Most PC games aren't made for playing off the disc. They are made to be played off the hard drive. In fact, what games do play off the disc?

I know that Halo 2 can. It can even install while you are playing the campaign. But the game is designed to do this.

Frankly, the fact that you are saying that the hard drive and the disc "process data" makes me quite aware that you really don't know what you are talking about, here. Hard drives don't "process" anything.

Hell I quite buying multiplats for the 360 over the PS3 for simply that reason. Well controller preference too. Does Gears of War look amazing on my 52" HDTV? Hell yes! Does it get bogged down and pull when a lot is happening? Hell yes!

That's not because of the lack of a hard drive install. When lots of stuff is happening on screen, the CPU and GPU just can't keep up with the rendering and calculations. So the frame rate drops slightly. That's all. The hard drive has nothing to do with it.

And it certainly has nothing whatsoever to do with "lag" as you mentioned earlier.

Where a hard drive install would come into play on Gears of War is in the faster streaming of textures when you first start a multiplayer match. It takes a second for the textures to stream in. It doesn't affect the frame rate or lag, however. Epic could have just waited to display and start the match until all of the textures were loaded, and nobody would have been the wiser, but they chose to get the game going first and let the textures stream in.

For a little self test buy Ninja Gaiden 2 (killer game by the by) and when the screen literally freezes at parts to process data and load new areas think back to this.

Not my kind of game. Other games don't have issues with this, which just makes me think that they just did a poor job of handling the data fetch off the drive, if what you say is true.

You do realize not every gamer needs feature YOU need to enjoy gaming right.

You do realize not everyone cares about every spec of performance right.

You do realize games run just fine on the 360 without a harddrive right.

You do realize most console owners are kids and teenagers who just want to play the game right.

You do realize most console owners are either not capable (or willing too) upgrading the harddrive by themselves right.

You do realize even Sony understands this.. or else they wouldnt keep pumping up the size of the PS3's HDD. Lets see 20, 40, 60, 80, now 160 gig. If its so convenient for every gamer in the world.. why wouldnt Sony just stick with a 40 gig harddrive. right.

You do realize you admit MS had foresight with the original Xbox.. but they just somehow lost all that foresight with the 360 right.

You do realize the 360 has been profitable for over a year now.. where as the original Xbox was NEVER profitable right.

You do realize that with 100GB of storage, you can install about 15 full games right. Because a DVD9 has a maximum of 8 gigs of storage and not EVERY game uses the full 8 gigs of space. Many 360 games are only 4-6 GB's in size. Which would mean you could install 20 full games. right.

But you are going to use all that 100GB "super fast"..

right?


You do realize you sound like an ass right?

You do realize changing a hard drive on a gaming console is not rocket science?

You do realize people that don't research any purchase of technoloy over 70 bucks and learn the pro's and con's before hand are idiots right?

You do realize there are people that were raised playing games that grew into adults that game right?

You do realize said gamers actually have the money for consoles and should be considered when doing market research right?

You do realize that foresight is not a given or constant, especially when it comes to making a profit right?

You do realize that Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey are multiple disc's right?

You do realize many newer games are gonna be multiple disc's right?

You do realize 7 X 9 = 63 right?

You do realize 100 - 63 = 37 right?

You do realize thats from only two games right?;)

Most PC games aren't made for playing off the disc. They are made to be played off the hard drive. In fact, what games do play off the disc?

I know that Halo 2 can. It can even install while you are playing the campaign. But the game is designed to do this.

Frankly, the fact that you are saying that the hard drive and the disc "process data" makes me quite aware that you really don't know what you are talking about, here. Hard drives don't "process" anything.



That's not because of the lack of a hard drive install. When lots of stuff is happening on screen, the CPU and GPU just can't keep up with the rendering and calculations. So the frame rate drops slightly. That's all. The hard drive has nothing to do with it.

And it certainly has nothing whatsoever to do with "lag" as you mentioned earlier.

Where a hard drive install would come into play on Gears of War is in the faster streaming of textures when you first start a multiplayer match. It takes a second for the textures to stream in. It doesn't affect the frame rate or lag, however. Epic could have just waited to display and start the match until all of the textures were loaded, and nobody would have been the wiser, but they chose to get the game going first and let the textures stream in.



Not my kind of game. Other games don't have issues with this, which just makes me think that they just did a poor job of handling the data fetch off the drive, if what you say is true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_R0v2f3Tes

And thats from Team Ninja, one the most competent dev teams out there. And that doesn't even show where it literally stops to load and I mean freezes stops in the middle of battle.

You do realize you sound like an ass right?

You do realize changing a hard drive on a gaming console is not rocket science?

You do realize people that don't research any purchase of technoloy over 70 bucks and learn the pro's and con's before hand are idiots right?

You do realize there are people that were raised playing games that grew into adults that game right?

You do realize said gamers actually have the money for consoles and should be considered when doing market research right?

You do realize that foresight is not a given or constant, especially when it comes to making a profit right?

You do realize that Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey are multiple disc's right?

You do realize many newer games are gonna be multiple disc's right?

You do realize 7 X 9 = 63 right?

You do realize 100 - 63 = 37 right?

You do realize thats from only two games right?;)



You do realize calling people an azz, an idiot or saying they "must be high" are rules for suspension on this forum right?

Its clear that BigBoss already knows everything.

But please dont let me the ass interrupt you.. by all means continue.. I'm sure you will be around this forum for a long time.. *thumbs up*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_R0v2f3Tes

And thats from Team Ninja, one the most competent dev teams out there. And that doesn't even show where it literally stops to load and I mean freezes stops in the middle of battle.

What is shown in the video is not cause by the lack of a hard drive install. That's just a bug. Everything is loaded in that sequence. The game is just running more slowly. The really odd thing is that it appears that the frame rate isn't even being affected. It just looks like it is in slow motion. Just a bug.

You do realize calling people an azz, an idiot or saying they "must be high" are rules for suspension on this forum right?

Its clear that BigBoss already knows everything.

But please dont let me the ass interrupt you.. by all means continue.. I'm sure you will be around this forum for a long time.. *thumbs up*

I don't claim to know everything but I can do basic math. When the HDD install update comes I will give you three guess which hard drive on which console gets used up first.

I apologize for the ass comment but the rest of it stands.

This generation Microsoft did everything wrong that they did right last and Sony did everything right that they did wrong last. Nintendo on the other I have no clue, first time since the NES days that I haven't bought all the gaming consoles, if that says anything.

What is shown in the video is not cause by the lack of a hard drive install. That's just a bug. Everything is loaded in that sequence. The game is just running more slowly. The really odd thing is that it appears that the frame rate isn't even being affected. It just looks like it is in slow motion. Just a bug.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtqMKp_NYUM

Sorry thought that was on the other clip. The reason I say HDD install is because the original and Sigma both did that stops to load crap too. Sigma is one of the few PS3 games that does allow optional install. I played it both ways and without the install it was nearly on par with the stop and go of NG2 on the 360, with the install (which is one of the lowest for that console) it literally reduced it to a matter of one or two seconds. So while my knowledge of how it works may be skewed or next to nothing I can still physically see that a partial install does make the game run better.

I only hope it has the same effect for Ninja Gaiden 2.

When the HDD install update comes I will give you three guess which hard drive on which console gets used up first.

Theres no guesses needed. The 360 will have the ability to install ANY game to the HDD. Thats simply NOT an option on the PS3. Considering the 360 has about 400 titles in its library.. any 360 owner could *theorectically* quickly fill using any of the 2.5" HDD available today. Installing all 400 titles would require about 3 terabytes of storage. The PS3 on the other hand only has about 10 titles that require mandatory installs, and it would be simply incapable of filling up the largest 2.5" HDD.

I'm an Elite owner (120gig HDD) and I can tell you right now. There are only 2 games I plan on installing to the HDD. The 2 games I play the most COD4 and Madden. Just because I have 120gigs to use, and have about 15 games. Doesnt mean I'm going to install every single title.

The HDD is also capable of storing ripped music for regular playback or custom ingame soundtracks. You dont see people ripping their whole CD collection to the HDD just because they can.

I'm not saying people wont use the option. Most will. But the fact of the matter is it is not necessary to play the game with decent performance. That #1 reason the HDD installations are being allowed, is to QUIET the console. And that I think that is the reason you will see most people install games to the harddrive. Games that people play the most out of their 360 library.. are the titles that are goin to be installed. Not their entire library of 360 discs. Remember even after you install the disc to the HDD.. you still have to get up and put the disc in to play the game.

I'm installing COD4/Madden so I dont have to hear the DVD spinning while playing. I already know installing COD4 and Madden to the harddrive is goin to do very LITTLE to improve the performance of the game. They are both games that simply dont rely as much on streaming information. So the performance increase is basically nil.

Optional installs are great. Mandatory installs are not great. The good thing is the whole game will be copied. I too have an elite and I think I'll install 3 games. Can't wait for this update :)

But bigboss... seriously... if you want to debate game consoles and features do so as mature as possible. I know sometimes we all lose it, but cmon... this isn't a gamefaqs board, and we all can make our points without dishing names out to everyone. Both systems have their ups and downs. I personally applaud MS for sticking to core consoles that can be fully upgraded however the end user sees fit. It allows the system to be inexpensive for casuals or for someone who wants a spare at a cheap price. Too bad you can't buy a PS3 today with PS2 BC, and from the looks of it, card readers took a boot as well as did SACD. Over time systems are supposed to add features, not remove them.

About the only thing I'll agree though and this is from personal experience is not having a standard HDD. It'ld be nice but it's not needed. How come Uncharted looks gorgeous and has minimal load times without an install but other games require gigs to be installed before play thru where the multiplatform advantage isn't much? Lazy development, a system crutch, both?

Theres no guesses needed. The 360 will have the ability to install ANY game to the HDD. Thats simply NOT an option on the PS3. Considering the 360 has about 400 titles in its library.. any 360 owner could *theorectically* quickly fill using any of the 2.5" HDD available today. Installing all 400 titles would require about 3 terabytes of storage. The PS3 on the other hand only has about 10 titles that require mandatory installs, and it would be simply incapable of filling up the largest 2.5" HDD.

I'm an Elite owner (120gig HDD) and I can tell you right now. There are only 2 games I plan on installing to the HDD. The 2 games I play the most COD4 and Madden. Just because I have 120gigs to use, and have about 15 games. Doesnt mean I'm going to install every single title.

The HDD is also capable of storing ripped music for regular playback or custom ingame soundtracks. You dont see people ripping their whole CD collection to the HDD just because they can.

I'm not saying people wont use the option. Most will. But the fact of the matter is it is not necessary to play the game with decent performance. That #1 reason the HDD installations are being allowed, is to QUIET the console. And that I think that is the reason you will see most people install games to the harddrive. Games that people play the most out of their 360 library.. are the titles that are goin to be installed. Not their entire library of 360 discs. Remember even after you install the disc to the HDD.. you still have to get up and put the disc in to play the game.

I'm installing COD4/Madden so I dont have to hear the DVD spinning while playing. I already know installing COD4 and Madden to the harddrive is goin to do very LITTLE to improve the performance of the game. They are both games that simply dont rely as much on streaming information. So the performance increase is basically nil.


Yeah its the reason I am going to install as well. I am one of those nitpicky people that can let something like noise or poor video quality ruin a game for me. (by poor video I mean static or something of the like not graphics). I was one of those people that installed 20 GB's worth of music on the HDD so I could customize the soundtrack, one of the features I love on the 360 that Sony needs to make uniform for all titles (sadly only a few utilize it right now on the PS3). But see my above post. Its not just Sigma either there are a few other games (most notably DMC4) where you can tell a significant difference in the PS3 and 360 running them and it just seems to make sense that if its on the games that have the mandatory installs then its probably the mandatory installs causing it.

If the full installs help I won't gripe but I will still be in the same boat as the 20GB PS3 guys that have to remove data to play new games. My other big concern is whether using custom soundtracks will affect the performance of installed games since the HDD will be handling more than one thing at a time.

Yeah its the reason I am going to install as well. I am one of those nitpicky people that can let something like noise or poor video quality ruin a game for me. (by poor video I mean static or something of the like not graphics). I was one of those people that installed 20 GB's worth of music on the HDD so I could customize the soundtrack, one of the features I love on the 360 that Sony needs to make uniform for all titles (sadly only a few utilize it right now on the PS3). But see my above post. Its not just Sigma either there are a few other games (most notably DMC4) where you can tell a significant difference in the PS3 and 360 running them and it just seems to make sense that if its on the games that have the mandatory installs then its probably the mandatory installs causing it.

If the full installs help I won't gripe but I will still be in the same boat as the 20GB PS3 guys that have to remove data to play new games. My other big concern is whether using custom soundtracks will affect the performance of installed games since the HDD will be handling more than one thing at a time.

You know that on the 360, you can stream your music from a PC on your home network rather than having to put that music on the hard drive, right? This works in games, too.

The PS3 doesn't have this ability. It is restricted to only playing locally stored music while playing games (in the few games that even support playing your own music).

You know that on the 360, you can stream your music from a PC on your home network rather than having to put that music on the hard drive, right? This works in games, too.

The PS3 doesn't have this ability. It is restricted to only playing locally stored music while playing games (in the few games that even support playing your own music).

Yup but I can't get any music or movies to stream on either of the consoles. No idea why. The PS3 and 360 both tell me they can't find anything.

Yeah its the reason I am going to install as well. I am one of those nitpicky people that can let something like noise or poor video quality ruin a game for me. (by poor video I mean static or something of the like not graphics). I was one of those people that installed 20 GB's worth of music on the HDD so I could customize the soundtrack, one of the features I love on the 360 that Sony needs to make uniform for all titles (sadly only a few utilize it right now on the PS3). But see my above post. Its not just Sigma either there are a few other games (most notably DMC4) where you can tell a significant difference in the PS3 and 360 running them and it just seems to make sense that if its on the games that have the mandatory installs then its probably the mandatory installs causing it.

If the full installs help I won't gripe but I will still be in the same boat as the 20GB PS3 guys that have to remove data to play new games. My other big concern is whether using custom soundtracks will affect the performance of installed games since the HDD will be handling more than one thing at a time.

See my only gripe is the 360 installs are optional so if you want it, Pro 20gb owners will have to work their magic unlike 20gb PS3 owners who after 3 games requiring mandatory installs are FORCED to work some magic. Probably why bigger HDDs became the norm.

Let me tell you about my anectodal experience with my 40gb PS3, MGS4 and my issue with isntalls. I love MGS series, so I got it day 1. I was playing it through and almost done with a chapter (neglect initial install and subsequent chapter installs). My BD drive too a crap on me. Fine no biggy right, I got the warranty. Got out a thumb drive and copied each individual game save over. When I got my PS3 back from repair 1st thing I did was copy my saved games, individually, back onto the system followed by popping MGS4 in. Waited initial install of game, played some 5 minutes (all that was left before end of chapter), story, followed by chapter install and more story. Neglect all the story, I dealt with 15 minutes of non play (game save copies plus game/chapter installs). Now what happens when I am done with the game for now and I run out of room? I'll delete the files but come that time I want to play the game again, I'll have to install AGAIN (for the 3rd time now lol). Dealing with mandatory installs just plain SUCKS! If given the option, I might deal with it but this is a game console, not a PC. Note, I am a big PC guy so I deal with installs on a PC. I don't want to be forced to deal with it on a game console in my living room.

Yup but I can't get any music or movies to stream on either of the consoles. No idea why. The PS3 and 360 both tell me they can't find anything.

TVersity is your friend. Work some magic and both systems will find it. Sometimes it's super easy, other times you need to do some work for the consoles/PCs to work together. You probably don't have the right software on the PC (WMP9? 11?)

See my only gripe is the 360 installs are optional so if you want it, Pro 20gb owners will have to work their magic unlike 20gb PS3 owners who after 3 games requiring mandatory installs are FORCED to work some magic. Probably why bigger HDDs became the norm.

Let me tell you about my anectodal experience with my 40gb PS3, MGS4 and my issue with isntalls. I love MGS series, so I got it day 1. I was playing it through and almost done with a chapter (neglect initial install and subsequent chapter installs). My BD drive too a crap on me. Fine no biggy right, I got the warranty. Got out a thumb drive and copied each individual game save over. When I got my PS3 back from repair 1st thing I did was copy my saved games, individually, back onto the system followed by popping MGS4 in. Waited initial install of game, played some 5 minutes (all that was left before end of chapter), story, followed by chapter install and more story. Neglect all the story, I dealt with 15 minutes of non play (game save copies plus game/chapter installs). Now what happens when I am done with the game for now and I run out of room? I'll delete the files but come that time I want to play the game again, I'll have to install AGAIN (for the 3rd time now lol). Dealing with mandatory installs just plain SUCKS! Note, I am a big PC guy so I deal with installs on a PC. I don't want to be forced to deal with it on a game console in my living room.

Like I said you can upgrade the HDD super high for the price of a game. If you are one of the guys that got stuck between the 80GB's and had no choice other than a 40 then I feel your pain. Otherwise I don't feel any sympathy. Everyone cried about price until Sony had to cut out B/C for PS2 and shrink the HDD. The solution is buy the 80. I have a 60 and 80 and before I swapped HDD's even on the 60 I still had half the HDD there after several partial installs.

Samething for the guys still buying core 360's that get the RROD's. You should have bought an Elite, I checked and they seem like they RROD much less than the other models. Again though all this comes back to what I said earlier RESEARCH. Do some leg work and find out what you are buying and then make an informed choice. The good old days of SNES and Genesis are over, as gaming becomes more advanced the consumer should take it upon themselves to become more educated.

Samething for the guys still buying core 360's that get the RROD's. You should have bought an Elite, I checked and they seem like they RROD much less than the other models. Again though all this comes back to what I said earlier RESEARCH. Do some leg work and find out what you are buying and then make an informed choice. The good old days of SNES and Genesis are over, as gaming becomes more advanced the consumer should take it upon themselves to become more educated.

You should take your own advice. Arcades and Elites are identical inside.

You should take your own advice. Arcades and Elites are identical inside.

O'rly I don't believe there was an Arcade version when I picked up my Elite but thanks.

You do realize you sound like an ass right?

You do realize changing a hard drive on a gaming console is not rocket science?

)

Yup but I can't get any music or movies to stream on either of the consoles. No idea why. The PS3 and 360 both tell me they can't find anything.

Irony thy name is BigBoss22 ;)

Irony thy name is BigBoss22 ;)

hahahahahaha chuckle chuckle.

Removing a plastic clip and unscrewing 5 screws and then repeating in reverse versus setting up the media servers exactly as prompted to do by Sony and Microsoft and it still failing.

Yeah I see the irony. In one case I followed instructions down the t and then in another case I followed instructions down to to t. ;)

Arcade/Core have always been available since day 1. Just as Pro/Premiums were. Elites were the new kid on the block. Maybe the area you were by didn't carry them due to demand (which is a good thing since personally I don't think the core is a good value as that HDD, especially with the soon to come optional installs will add even more value to me).

But to answer back, and this could go on for days... why should I be forced to upgrade the HDD just because of mandatory installs? Wasn't the PS3 marketed as a media center as well? I do like the fact the HDD can be upgraded so easily and streaming works great but again, that HDD space I could have used for media is being used to install game code JUST to play the game. I have always wanted BC, but it's water under the bridge at this point since it's another promise they went back on. I'ld rather have BC than wifi, card readers, etc. Last I checked, when Sony cut out BC they didn't shrink HDD size, they removed features and offered 20gb more on each version (20->40, 60->80) probably due to mandatory installs. It is what it is but don't act like forced installs are a good thing, they aren't.

Arcade/Core have always been available since day 1. Just as Pro/Premiums were. Elites were the new kid on the block. Maybe the area you were by didn't carry them due to demand (which is a good thing since personally I don't think the core is a good value as that HDD, especially with the soon to come optional installs will add even more value to me).

But to answer back, and this could go on for days... why should I be forced to upgrade the HDD just because of mandatory installs? Wasn't the PS3 marketed as a media center as well? I do like the fact the HDD can be upgraded so easily and streaming works great but again, that HDD space I could have used for media is being used to install game code JUST to play the game. I have always wanted BC, but it's water under the bridge at this point since it's another promise they went back on. I'ld rather have BC than wifi, card readers, etc. Last I checked, when Sony cut out BC they didn't shrink HDD size, they removed features and offered 20gb more on each version (20->40, 60->80) probably due to mandatory installs. It is what it is but don't act like forced installs are a good thing, they aren't.

Dude whatever its preference. You think they are bad fine. I have seen first hand evidence of how they enhance the game performance. If it make you sleep better at night then great. Otherwise go buy Sigma do a run without install and then do a run with install, then come back and tell me with a straight face its not a good thing. If your impatient or feel cheated somehow then I am sorry but take a look at history; people don't necessarily always know whats best for themselves. Regardless its not Sony's doing, they put the HDD they didn't limit in anyway what the developer wishes to do with the HDD. Most of the big install games are 3rd party games. A handful of those are multiplatformed which to me indicates that if all 360's had HDD's these developers would be making use of them in the same way.

And no the elites were out in 8/07 and the arcades didn't hit till 10/07 if my memory serves and regardless of Core being an Arcade when I bought my Elite Microsoft was using different parts in the Elite than the Cores and Premiums (or so they swore). If they changed and the parts are all the same now awesome. But for my purpose I did the research. Anything that happens from here on it is irrelevent for me personally.

So, the general take is that the reason the Xbox 360's are so loud, is because Microsoft decided to use a DVD drive for the console.

In my kids room, they have a slimline Sony PS2 system, and sometimes I'm in there playing some random PS2 game, and in there, I sit a few feet from the TV, and the PS2 is right below the TV, and I don't really notice any noise at all. Why are the slimline PS2's dvd drives so quiet in comparison to the Xbox 360 dvd drives?

So, the general take is that the reason the Xbox 360's are so loud, is because Microsoft decided to use a DVD drive for the console.

In my kids room, they have a slimline Sony PS2 system, and sometimes I'm in there playing some random PS2 game, and in there, I sit a few feet from the TV, and the PS2 is right below the TV, and I don't really notice any noise at all. Why are the slimline PS2's dvd drives so quiet in comparison to the Xbox 360 dvd drives?

Xbox 360 DVD drives spin at 12x, or ~7000RPM.
PS2 DVD drive is only 4x, or ~2300RPM.

I have a launch 360 that I had to send in for RRoD repair a few months back. Before I sent it in, the thing sounded like a jet aircraft taking off. Ever since I received it back from repairs, I can barely hear it. I don't know what they did but it's a hell of an improvement.

Xbox 360 DVD drives spin at 12x, or ~7000RPM.
PS2 DVD drive is only 4x, or ~2300RPM.

I see. So, I'm guessing that having a 12x dvd drive in the 360 is absolutely mandatory, cause some games wouldn't work right if the drive wasn't a 12x drive?


Also, I'm guessing that there aren't any 12x dvd drives that are relatively quiet?



By the way, the best thing to do to make the 360 less noisy, is to actually locate the 360 in a room adjacent to the room where the TV is. The downside is having to go into the other room to change discs, but the good part is not hearing it at all. You just have to run a longer component cable and optical cable, or a longer HDMI cable. If you have the 360 in the room right next to the room with the TV, the wireless controller should work just fine.

I see. So, I'm guessing that having a 12x dvd drive in the 360 is absolutely mandatory, cause some games wouldn't work right if the drive wasn't a 12x drive?


Also, I'm guessing that there aren't any 12x dvd drives that are relatively quiet?



By the way, the best thing to do to make the 360 less noisy, is to actually locate the 360 in a room adjacent to the room where the TV is. The downside is having to go into the other room to change discs, but the good part is not hearing it at all. You just have to run a longer component cable and optical cable, or a longer HDMI cable. If you have the 360 in the room right next to the room with the TV, the wireless controller should work just fine.


Thats a very good question. Thing is the PS3's Blu Ray drive doesn't run at 12x speed and the games are amazing looking. I guess the real question is whats the difference between the two drives. Come to think of I am not even sure my prior arguement was vaild. While mandatory installs on the 360 would help it run better the drive would still be running at 12X regardless.

Thats a very good question. Thing is the PS3's Blu Ray drive doesn't run at 12x speed and the games are amazing looking. I guess the real question is whats the difference between the two drives.

The x is relative to the base speed of the format.

Speed of 1x Blu-Ray is faster than 1x DVD, which is faster than 1x CD.

The x is relative to the base speed of the format.

Speed of 1x Blu-Ray is faster than 1x DVD, which is faster than 1x CD.

Okay so the 12X is necessary then. They would have been better off using an HD DVD drive then.

Okay so the 12X is necessary then. They would have been better off using an HD DVD drive then.

No. Because HD-DVD drives didn't exist back in November 2005. It would have delayed their launch by a year.

12x DVD works, is cheap, and the new drives are pretty quiet.

No. Because HD-DVD drives didn't exist back in November 2005. It would have delayed their launch by a year.

12x DVD works, is cheap, and the new drives are pretty quiet.

They should have waited another year anyway I think they rushed to market too fast.

I think you need to spend your time here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=142

Dude whatever its preference. You think they are bad fine. I have seen first hand evidence of how they enhance the game performance. If it make you sleep better at night then great. Otherwise go buy Sigma do a run without install and then do a run with install, then come back and tell me with a straight face its not a good thing. If your impatient or feel cheated somehow then I am sorry but take a look at history; people don't necessarily always know whats best for themselves. Regardless its not Sony's doing, they put the HDD they didn't limit in anyway what the developer wishes to do with the HDD. Most of the big install games are 3rd party games. A handful of those are multiplatformed which to me indicates that if all 360's had HDD's these developers would be making use of them in the same way.

Does Sigma require MANDATORY install? no, it's optional and is exactly what should be offered, not forced. If the user wants faster load times, quieter operation, improved performance, etc etc then the option = value. Forcing the install means that HDD space isn't allowing the user to do as he pleases, unless of course he uninstalls and reinstalls everytime he plays with disk space and his games. The obvious choice would be to shell out some $ for a bigger HDD. 360 not requiring HDD download while PS3 does says what exactly? When differences are negligible. We can cherry pick all day. Regardless both systems are great and both offer pretty much the same experience. 1 has Bluray, the other has better online. 1 has standard HDD but some games force install, another has no standard HDD and some games features require it. We can be here drawing out the same regurgitated list that's been spewed on every gaming board ever created since the 'crashbox' launched.


And no the elites were out in 8/07 and the arcades didn't hit till 10/07 if my memory serves and regardless of Core being an Arcade when I bought my Elite Microsoft was using different parts in the Elite than the Cores and Premiums (or so they swore). If they changed and the parts are all the same now awesome. But for my purpose I did the research. Anything that happens from here on it is irrelevent for me personally.

I think you need to do some more research chief.

Arcade = updated Core (512mb memory unit along with with some arcade games & HDMI)
Premium = updated Pro (to go along with update + HDMI)

Yup but I can't get any music or movies to stream on either of the consoles. No idea why. The PS3 and 360 both tell me they can't find anything.

But you figured out how to change a hard drive in your PS3? Formatting and all? Really?

O'rly I don't believe there was an Arcade version when I picked up my Elite but thanks.

There was a "Core" system that has been out as long as the 360 has. The only time there was any internal difference in the consoles was that brief period right after the Elite came out when it had the HANA chip and HDMI but the others didn't. As the consoles sold the newly manufactured units ALL had HDMI added. The "Core" system dried up and the Arcade replaced it. All Arcade units have HDMI.

It's not the DVD drive in my 360 that's noisy, it's the fan. My replacement is quieter than the RRODed original, but it's still *extremely* distracting when gaming. But it's not too bad when watching movies, so I guess I can live with it.

It's not the DVD drive in my 360 that's noisy, it's the fan. My replacement is quieter than the RRODed original, but it's still *extremely* distracting when gaming. But it's not too bad when watching movies, so I guess I can live with it.

I agree its the fan thats loud not the drive since I bought one of the newer drives whatever with the 175watt power supply my 360 does not make noise now while playing gears of war before that thing took off like a plane, but now no noise so whatever noise you guys are getting from the disc drive is a fault there is no noise in my 360

Lian Li says its the drive thats noisy.