My apologies if this has already been covered, but I've done some searching and could not find anything that directly addressed my questions. This thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=781993) came close, but then diverged into a discussion of DVI support of HDCP.

My question topic is multi-part, so please feel free to answer or discuss any or all.

1. Why do upconverting DVD players not offer ANY upconversion over their component interfaces? If the original source DVD is limited to 480i/p then it's technically not HD content, and thus falls outside the restrictions that HDCP was setup to control.

2. If my receiver is capable of upconverting any incoming standard-def signals to 1080p over HDMI, why can it not also do the same for component? Component video is perfectly capable of handling the bandwidth required of a 1080p component signal, but does not have the same handshaking issues that HDMI seems to increasinly have.

3. Many modern displays with component inputs can support a 1080p signal via the component interface. Why even have this capability when the only "legal" sources of this would be HTPCs?

I can think of a few theories - (and I stress that they are nothing but theories)

* They don't want to spend the money on a DA chip that can output 1080p
* They think it's a low demand feature
* Few TVs support 1080p over component? (I am unsure about this)
* There is some rule we don't know about

My apologies if this has already been covered, but I've done some searching and could not find anything that directly addressed my questions. This thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=781993) came close, but then diverged into a discussion of DVI support of HDCP.

My question topic is multi-part, so please feel free to answer or discuss any or all.

1. Why do upconverting DVD players not offer ANY upconversion over their component interfaces? If the original source DVD is limited to 480i/p then it's technically not HD content, and thus falls outside the restrictions that HDCP was setup to control.

It is a feeble DRM scheme. To get permission to use certain patents, player vendors must agree not to allow upscaling of CSS-protected SD-DVD content over component. This makes no sense at all; it's like a law that allows you reproduce $20 bills, but not poster-sized blowups of the same. You'd have to argue with the content providers about it. It is especially feeble since CSS was broken years ago.

2. If my receiver is capable of upconverting any incoming standard-def signals to 1080p over HDMI, why can it not also do the same for component? Component video is perfectly capable of handling the bandwidth required of a 1080p component signal, but does not have the same handshaking issues that HDMI seems to increasinly have.

There is no technical reason, other than the capability would probably have to implemented for both HDMI and component, which might he extra work.

3. Many modern displays with component inputs can support a 1080p signal via the component interface. Why even have this capability when the only "legal" sources of this would be HTPCs?


HD signals over component are allowed for:


HD sources like Blu-Ray
non-CSS protected SD-DVD


-Bill

Many thanks for your response. This first part allows me to expand on my question a bit further.

It is a feeble DRM scheme. To get permission to use certain patents, player vendors must agree not to allow upscaling of CSS-protected SD-DVD content over component. This makes no sense at all; it's like a law that allows you reproduce $20 bills, but not poster-sized blowups of the same. You'd have to argue with the content providers about it. It is especially feeble since CSS was broken years ago.
It is my understanding that HDCP was implemented to protect high-definition digital content, as example HD-DVD, Blu-ray, HD satellite. Since SD-DVD doesn't fall under that definition, it seems highly contradictory to implicitly include it in an umbrella copy protection schema.

Hypothetically, if I choose to upscale 480i content to 1080p and then record it, the only benefit is the upscaling applied by my already purchased upscaling device. The 480i content it not really "bettered" in any way that would impact the content provider of the original 480i signal. At the end of the day I have not "magically" created a 1080p signal, it's still only as good as the 480i input and the hardware I used to display it.

HD signals over component are allowed for:


HD sources like Blu-Ray
non-CSS protected SD-DVD


But who makes the determination for "allowed" for non-HDCP governed sources? As I stated above, SD-DVD is not deemed to be "high definition" and by definition should not be governed by HDCP content management.

Hypothetically, if I choose to upscale 480i content to 1080p and then record it, the only benefit is the upscaling applied by my already purchased upscaling device. The 480i content it not really "bettered" in any way that would impact the content provider of the original 480i signal. At the end of the day I have not "magically" created a 1080p signal, it's still only as good as the 480i input and the hardware I used to display it.

Makes you wonder what sort of geniuses are running Hollywood, doesn't it?

But who makes the determination for "allowed" for non-HDCP governed sources? As I stated above, SD-DVD is not deemed to be "high definition" and by definition should not be governed by HDCP content management.


I presume the determination comes from the content owners: the studios.

In the case of component, HDCP is not the issue; it's used only for HDMI (and sometimes DVI). Someone decided that upscaling SD-DVD over component was an "analog hole" that needed to be plugged.

-Bill

It is my understanding that HDCP was implemented to protect high-definition digital content, as example HD-DVD, Blu-ray, HD satellite. Since SD-DVD doesn't fall under that definition, it seems highly contradictory to implicitly include it in an umbrella copy protection schema.

HDCP - HDCP stands for High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection, a copy protection scheme to eliminate the possibility of intercepting digital data midstream between the source to the display.

Does high-bandwidth mean only high definition?

HDCP - HDCP stands for High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection, a copy protection scheme to eliminate the possibility of intercepting digital data midstream between the source to the display.

Does high-bandwidth mean only high definition?

But with SD-DVD sources, it's all digital data at the beginning of the process. This doesn't change at all whether the signal is displayed 480i/480p/1080i over component cables, all of those formats are analogue.

My receiver allows me to take a 480i component signal and upconvert it to 1080i component output...

but strangely

the same receiver cannot take a 480i signal and convert it to 1080p over component. This is only supported over the HDMI interface.

So what is so special about an analogue 1080p signal that it cannot be transmitted via component cables? Any decent component cable is certainly capable of 1080p transmission over reasonable distances, and there are displays that will happily accept a 1080p component signal and display it.

It's almost as though with the advent of HDMI content providers decided to put a universal "unwritten law" hardware ceiling on 1080p and only allow devices with HDMI to output it.

That said, I have seen some import, upconverting DVD players that will happily be a 1080p component source, so long as the source media is not encrypted (no CSS). Sadly, this immediately disqualifies about 99.9% of all retail media. The extended implication is: to get 1080p over component with those devices you have to do something not quite kosher first.

HD signals over component are allowed for:


HD sources like Blu-Ray
non-CSS protected SD-DVD



I should add that the industry has threatened to disallow HD video over component in the future; this is the purpose of the Image Constraint Token: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Constraint_Token. I haven't heard any recent news about this being enabled, although I believe some broadcast sources turned it on recently, perhaps inadvertantly.

Concerning SD-DVD: although it is still illegal, ripping DVDs is commonly done. This involves removing CSS. Many component players will upscale the copies.

-Bill

My receiver allows me to take a 480i component signal and upconvert it to 1080i component output...

but strangely

the same receiver cannot take a 480i signal and convert it to 1080p over component.

That must be a limitation of your receiver. A lot of devices handle 1080p over component.

-Bill