I cant believe how awesome this looks. I also cannot believe that I completely missed the boat with the IL-2 series...I was a big Red Baron and Aces of the Pacific fan and have longed for a modern representation....WOW WOW WOW WOW I am so screwed when this game comes out, goodbye social life.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/37361.html

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/37363.html

AND SOME PREVIEWS!!!!
http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/il-2-sturmovik-birds-of-prey/902556p1.html

http://ps3.gamespy.com/playstation-3/il-2-sturmovik-birds-of-prey/882520p1.html

Absolutely!

I've been an IL2 "pilot" for years now, and was so excited to see that it was going to come to the 360. I'm hoping they'll release some sort of flight controls with it, and even better it's compatible with TrackIR, but hey, you can't ask for everything. :)

-JR

it does look cool. Consider the pants peed

I'm really happy to read that it has a "simulation" mode, which gives you the direct view from the cockpit without "radar" and other information. In my opinion - the only way to play it is from the cockpit withou "radar", heads-up info, etc. It's nice that they include both styles.

I wonder if they'll lock servers for online mode, or if that'll be a choice to do if you create your own MP server.

-JR

Holy ****! IL-2 on a console? Wow, it looked great in the videos. Hope the finished game turns out as a success. Can't wait to get back into the cockpit of a true flight sim. Would be badass if a joystick comes out. Something I can use with Over-G Fighters and Ace Combat 6. Either way, playing IL2 again will be good fun. :)

Better put that back in your pants for awhile... Release date Q4/2009.

I've been a big IL-2 fan since the games came out.

Is IC-Maddox games behind this one? Or is Oleg Maddox at least involved?

I still think the PC is the place of this kind of stuff, but hopefully they at least do this right. By right I mean not a WW2 ACE COMBAT game.

I was bored and picked up the latest IL-2 mega-pack on the PC a few weeks ago, not having played a flight sim since European Air War though and mostly fast forwarding to the action stuff I realized I suck. Wow do I suck.

I've been a big IL-2 fan since the games came out.

Is IC-Maddox games behind this one? Or is Oleg Maddox at least involved?

I still think the PC is the place of this kind of stuff, but hopefully they at least do this right. By right I mean not a WW2 ACE COMBAT game.

1C is behind it, working with Gaijin. I saw somewhere that Subbotin (a PR rep from 1C) has been presenting it to various game reviewing sites, which is a good sign. I wonder if their focus on this is what's delaying the upcoming PC IL2 release?

-JR

Agh! Q4 2009?!?! Lame.

Guess I'll pick up that IL-2 pack and joystick for the PC in the meantime...

Ugh. And I just got excited for some IL-2 multiplayer on Xbox Live. Hope it turns out well and doesn't get cancelled along the way.

I was bored and picked up the latest IL-2 mega-pack on the PC a few weeks ago, not having played a flight sim since European Air War though and mostly fast forwarding to the action stuff I realized I suck. Wow do I suck.

I know. With IL2 it made it hard. Pull back on the stick too much and you spin out? Find it a long and arduous joy the first time you landed without dying (but still totalling the plane?) A game like Ace Combat would never be this way.

I know. With IL2 it made it hard. Pull back on the stick too much and you spin out? Find it a long and arduous joy the first time you landed without dying (but still totalling the plane?) A game like Ace Combat would never be this way.
Is there any game out there remotely comparable to Aces of the Pacific on modern hardware? That was my favorite. I knew IL2/Pacific Fighters was going to be hardcore but I had no idea. I need to give it a some more time for sure.

Microsoft Combat Flight simulator 3, but it's no where near as hard or realistic.

Pacific Fighters was my favorite WW2.

Jane's F-15 and Longbow overall, though.

Is there any game out there remotely comparable to Aces of the Pacific on modern hardware? That was my favorite. I knew IL2/Pacific Fighters was going to be hardcore but I had no idea. I need to give it a some more time for sure.

Give it a bit of time and you'll fall in love. Being gentle (and using a joystick) are hugely rewarding! :)

-JR

Was a member of the biggest Squadron on Combat Flight Simulator on the Gaming Zone. Been waiting for a game closer to a sim unlike that Blazin Angels crap.

Any updates on this game - status updates - new trailers?

-JR

Crimson Skies 2, is that too much to ask for?

I think it is the works. Or it least was rumored to be. I can't wait.

Crimson Skies 2, is that too much to ask for?

As said, its being developed by a outside developer and not the IL-2 team, who are busy working on Battle of Britain. So I'm not so excited that I'd pee my pants like some of you, but mostly interested in seeing how well of a job they do in handling the series and how well it will translate to consoles. There's plenty of media for the title, not a rumor at all. Its due later this year last I checked.

I don't see it replacing the IL-2 series and its 3 or 4 expansions and the Pacific Fighters add-on, but it will be something to tide us over at least until the real PC sequel comes out. It will be interesting to see the blend of arcade and simulation elements they use, I can't imagine it being as hardcore of a sim as the PC titles if they want to sell it to console gamers using gamepads. I imagine those with that Ace Combat stick will be able to get the most out of it, though its too bad we can't use our PC flight sticks/throttles/rudder pedals to play it.

There's also a DS version and I believe a PSP version.

I already peed my pants a few months ago. I ain't peein again unless I get some good news.

I'm betting it's another Ace Combat...by that I mean fun but totally unrealistic.

Videos and interviews seem to indicate this title will be closer to the realism side of things (Though no doubt somewhat toned down compared to the PC versions).

I think its safe to say it won't be Ace Combat with propellers, though you may be able to adjust the difficulty to get a arcade experience. People buying a IL-2 game are expecting realism, I don't think they'd of bothered approaching the developers of IL-2 to license assets and branding and developing a console IL-2 title if it didn't have a good bit of realism, within reason when you take into account limitations like gamepads (No throttle, no rudder pedals, etc.) and console demographics.

Almost everyone in this thread is excited about this because its a console entry in the IL-2 family. If we're any indication, this title would fail horribly if it ends of handling like a Ace Combat title (Great series, but its 180 degrees different from a flight sim and not what people are expecting).

Any word/updates on this game?

-JR

Looking forward to this. I spent a lot of time with Jane's WWII Fighters back in the day and am hoping this is a similar experience

Yeah, if I see another flight "simulation" game with regenerating missiles, I'm going to shoot somebody!

It's been a couple of months, but I see they've released a new trailer of in-game combat footage. It's up on IGN for easy access.

IL-2 Sturmovik aerial combat trailer (http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14258704/il-2-sturmovik-birds-of-prey/videos/il2sturmovil_trl_aerialcombat_61509.html)

It looks incredibly, I just wish they'd show some in-cockpit views.

-JR

Looks gorgeous! Couldn't tell very clearly in the video but I hope they keep the detailed damage modeling from teh PC version. I saw pieces of plane missing but every plane shot down in this video just kinda caught fire and spun out. Hope you can see them really break apart. Graphics look great though! Oooo...hope there is a cockpit view and the controls aren't too FUBAR'd too. :o

Aaggghhh! When does this come out?!? :p

I don't know if this is set in stone but VGReleases states September 15. I'm really hoping that this will live up to it's name.

http://www.vgreleases.com/Xbox360/ReleaseDate-154192.aspx

Looks gorgeous! Couldn't tell very clearly in the video but I hope they keep the detailed damage modeling from teh PC version. I saw pieces of plane missing but every plane shot down in this video just kinda caught fire and spun out. Hope you can see them really break apart. Graphics look great though! Oooo...hope there is a cockpit view and the controls aren't too FUBAR'd too. :o

Aaggghhh! When does this come out?!? :p

In an article posted by a couple IGN'rs who demoed the game, they said that yes, is have real-time damage modeling like the old IL2 on the PC, as well as in-cockpit view (they call it "simulation" view). I'm hopefully it'll be good, but I'm wondering how you'd play this without a fligh-stick?

I don't know if this is set in stone but VGReleases states September 15. I'm really hoping that this will live up to it's name.

http://www.vgreleases.com/Xbox360/ReleaseDate-154192.aspx

I can only hope!!! That would be awesome.

-JR

In an article posted by a couple IGN'rs who demoed the game, they said that yes, is have real-time damage modeling like the old IL2 on the PC, as well as in-cockpit view (they call it "simulation" view). I'm hopefully it'll be good, but I'm wondering how you'd play this without a fligh-stick?



I can only hope!!! That would be awesome.

-JR

It would be a good time to release a 360 version of the Microsoft Sidewinder 2 force feedback controller but I don't see it happening.

I was bored and picked up the latest IL-2 mega-pack on the PC a few weeks ago, not having played a flight sim since European Air War though and mostly fast forwarding to the action stuff I realized I suck. Wow do I suck.

EAW was my fav flight combat sim on the PC. Liked all the diff mod's and custom paint for the planes to match real squadrons and specs of the time.

Played online a lot until I switched out to FPS (CS beta's). There use to be guy in a P51D that just owned everybody. I think he had a "STEEL" somewhere in his call sign. This guy just owned the sky. The only way I had a chance vs him was to fly the ME(bf)109K. The fast bugger with the 30mm nose cannon. I would get into head ons with him. His 50 cal's vs my 30mm. If I was lucky and get a hit, it would cripple him enuf so I had a chance in a dog fight. If I missed and servived his 50's I just dove flat out to pick up speed and then do a zoom climb to do the head on again. If I try to turn to dog fight, I was dead meat, since he can turn that Mustang on a dime and give you a nickel back in change...:D. I had to fight in the vertical (yoyo) and he fought in the horizontal in a tradition dog fight mode (much like F4's vs MIG's over Nam). Only probm was my slow firing 30mm and "very" limited 30mm ammo supply.

ADD: That SOB :D would eventually spiral me down low and burn my @ss when I couldn't yoyo.


Sorry OP. Just hope IL wil not be dumb down console flight game. Def getting for the PC. Sorry again being OT.

It would be a good time to release a 360 version of the Microsoft Sidewinder 2 force feedback controller but I don't see it happening.

You could always get this one: http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/07/mad-catz-rolls-out-new-saitek-aviator-flight-sticks-for-xbox-360/

Looks decent for $50. I know that the PC version of this stick is pretty good. I picked up a Saitek X52 Pro HOTAS setup this past October to play IL2 on my PC. What a blast that game can be.

Like others, I am worried that it will be dumbed down considerably for the consoles. I can't really say how its all going to work without playing it. Just have to wait and see. Glad to see the damage modelling is this there. Hope the sound effects are good in this too.

Tinker, love that story. Never played these games online but I don't know if I'd want to. There are always guys like that out there that would send straight to the dirt in a flaming pile of metal. Should be much easier fodder for me to shoot down on XBL. :p

It seems you can get the Saitek (http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.php?product_item_number=20260600916) for as little as $37. Not bad for that price.

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on that flight stick. Found this on youtube. It's the Saitek being used with HAWX.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2Evi4MrhEc

It seems you can get the Saitek (http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.php?product_item_number=20260600916) for as little as $37. Not bad for that price.

Not bad at all! That may be a must purchase for this game when it comes out! I sure hope that Sept 15th date is somewhat close to being real.

-JR

New update on IGN, looking good!

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/100/1005628p1.html

Glad to see that in the "simulator" mode there is trim, that's a good sign. It's fairly obvious the reviewer is not used to flying sims. Although it says you can look around while in the cockpit, apparently he never does so...maybe he's not sure how to.

Anyway, enjoy the videos.

Whew! Glad to hear they kept the all the flight models in place. Having an arcade, pro, and full sim mode will be great so we can tinker about with which is the best for the player. I most certainly will start with the middle difficulty and probably never use the arcade mode. I have played enough of this on the pc so I sure hope the "feel" is still there.

One thing I liked reading about in the article was when the writer mentioned tailing your victims as they plumet to the ground. I did this all the time on the pc. Just pepper the guy enough to where his plane is useless. They bail out but you get to follow the plane all the way down til it crashes. Fun stuff.

EDIT: L-O-freakin'-L!!! Who the heck is this guy flying in those videos!?! Do they pick the worst players ever when making this videos? Geezuz. :p Aside from the awful piloting, if you could call it that, the videos put a big smile on my face. Looks identical to the pc version. I am happy. The only thing I have left to worry about is the campaign and missions. The pc version has a great quantity and the quality of the missions and campaigns was incredible. There was also a super awesome dynamic campaign mode that I really, really, really, really hope makes it into this game. :)

Ooooooo! September is getting close. :D

Btw, I think I may pick up one of those flight sticks for this one. :cool:

Whew! Glad to hear they kept the all the flight models in place. Having an arcade, pro, and full sim mode will be great so we can tinker about with which is the best for the player. I most certainly will start with the middle difficulty and probably never use the arcade mode. I have played enough of this on the pc so I sure hope the "feel" is still there.

One thing I liked reading about in the article was when the writer mentioned tailing your victims as they plumet to the ground. I did this all the time on the pc. Just pepper the guy enough to where his plane is useless. They bail out but you get to follow the plane all the way down til it crashes. Fun stuff.

EDIT: L-O-freakin'-L!!! Who the heck is this guy flying in those videos!?! Do they pick the worst players ever when making this videos? Geezuz. :p Aside from the awful piloting, if you could call it that, the videos put a big smile on my face. Looks identical to the pc version. I am happy. The only thing I have left to worry about is the campaign and missions. The pc version has a great quantity and the quality of the missions and campaigns was incredible. There was also a super awesome dynamic campaign mode that I really, really, really, really hope makes it into this game. :)

Ooooooo! September is getting close. :D

Btw, I think I may pick up one of those flight sticks for this one. :cool:

I agree with everything you said. I was the exact same way on the PC when chasing planes down. You never knew quite how much damage you've done to someone, so you've got to follow them to the deck to make sure they're all set! I remember first playing online and when I'd see someone engine start to spit smoke, I'd peel off and move on. I got caught a couple of times doing that, since they'd dive and then pull out and come right after me. :)

The Xbox graphics great, especially seeing the head movement in the 1st person view. I'm with you on hoping that they have a good, robust campaign. That massive list of missions was truly amazing, and incredibly robust. I also hope that it allows you to do co-op campaigns the way it did on the PC. My friends and I loved those missions.

I'm going to have to get a flight-stick for this. I can't imagine playing this game without it, it's just part of the experience! I've no idea why they gave this previewer the job on IGN to go over IL2. You'd think they'd get someone who either played IL2 on the PC, or has played any sort of flight sim. It was painfully obvious this guy has done neither. Funny to watch though, I suppose.

I wonder if they'll release any special editions or packages for this. I'm surprised to see that it's going to retail for $49.99. I wonder what's up with that?

Never liked the force feeback Sidewinder, always flew with the regular one, definitely have to invest in a flight stick.

While fun, that's pretty unnecessary after someone bails out. Remember Dicta Boelcke at all times since it forms the basis of successful air combat.

Rule number 1 is to secure an advantage before attacking, which means holding the advantage in speed, surprise, height, and performance.

By slowing down and following a bogey you've downed to watch the nice explosion from close up, you give up those advantages and leave yourself ripe to be surprised by one of the late pilot's buddies that is still up there in the air and enjoying those benefits you surrendered for a nice show.

Thankfully its just a videogame though so you can learn from such mistakes. :)

Bought that joystick, so I'm all set for September. :)

P.S. - If I get any of you in my sights in September and you bail out, I've been known to not take survivors by strafing downed aircrew. lol

P.S. - If I get any of you in my sights in September and you bail out, I've been known to not take survivors by strafing downed aircrew. lol

Vicious!

Regardless of how good this is, I think the toughest part for me will be playing this game without using TrackIR. Since there's no way they'll be able to implement that support, I'm wondering how they'll use the freelook on this game. On the PC version it was a bit of challenge to try to use it on your flight stick, I can't imagine how they'll do it with the controller unless they dedicate a stick to looking...

-JR

So what flight stick is everyone getting for this one? I know next to nothing on these type of games. It's my brother who is big into this series so I'll be giving it a shot since he doesn't play what I play(FPS) so this will give us a chance to play together.

Unfortunately, it may be kinda like Battlefield 1943 where you have to hold some other button and then use one of the sticks. It's f**king retarded though cause the controls won't let you fly AND look at the same time. Counter-intuitive. Who designs this stuff? :p Anyway, I hope that with the flightstick there will be a freelook hat. I'll keep my fingers crossed. :)

Oh, Leo. You will be one to watch out for online. :D

And just to clear things up...I wouldn't put myself in a disadvantage just to watch some poor sap hit the earth. That would pretty stupid. I have never played IL2 online, just the AI. When I had a quiet moment (rare) I could actually follow the wrecked plane to the sea or ground. It was pretty rare that I would follow them all the way down though. My usual tactic was to pepper them a bit with my guns until they either were neutralized or wrecked to the point that they must disengage from the fight.

The reason I brought this up is that in the vast majority of flight sims on consoles (pfft and the PC) just have explosions as the 'death' for anything in the sky. Cue to the quickly fading smoke and debris. That s**t is just boring. I liked that they kept this in there.

I have good feelings about this one. I just hope it sells and people play it...oh, and that it has plenty of missions and dynamic campaign mode. ;)

So what flight stick is everyone getting for this one? I know next to nothing on these type of games. It's my brother who is big into this series so I'll be giving it a shot since he doesn't play what I play(FPS) so this will give us a chance to play together.

I'll probably be getting that $50 Saitek one I posted about earlier. Unless I can find the HOTAS from Ace Combat 6 for teh cheap. :)

I bought the $50 Saitek stick that MadCatz is distributing.

Only other option I'm aware of is the Ace Combat stick, which is fairly rare and pricey and suffered from a very large deadzone in Ace Combat.

Not going to happen, but it would be nice if they allowed us to also hook up our racing wheels to use the pedals for rudder control.

No TrackIR will indeed be tough to get used to, I've grown to depend on it in PC racing and flight simulations.

I just ordered the Saitek as well!

Its going to be difficult because I have the CH fighterstick, peddals, throttle and Track ir 4pro for the computer and really wish I could use all of those instead.... I am having a blast playing with the planes on BF1943 even (with the gimped controllers) and will be using BOP to hold me over until SOW gets released on the PC in a few hundred years.

I am thinking that I will play in the middle setting as well, I will save full simulation for the pc...Also, I am so glad that they have a cockpit view...I cannot play flying games in third person because it drives me nuts and would not buy if it did not have cockpit view! I only go third person to admire graphics and scenery!

Unfortunately, it may be kinda like Battlefield 1943 where you have to hold some other button and then use one of the sticks. It's f**king retarded though cause the controls won't let you fly AND look at the same time. Counter-intuitive. Who designs this stuff? :p Anyway, I hope that with the flightstick there will be a freelook hat. I'll keep my fingers crossed. :)
:)

I seriously hope they have a free look that isn't hitched like the one in 43 (which is almost useless).

Right now I use a Cyborg evo on my PC for IL2. For a short period of time, I used my mouse or the hat to freelook (the hat was tough since it snapped). I'm like l88bastard, TrackIR is the way to go and I love it.

I see the stick posted earlier, and the Saitek Aviator. I don't know how I'd like having the throttle in the front (I'm assuming that's the throttle).

-JR

Yeah, that's the throttle in front. In fact, if you look close you can see it is split in half. For the PC version, this could lock or unlock for dual throttle control for games (or aircraft) that support it. I doubt this would be functional for 360. It probably comes perma-locked for the 360 version of the stick. Probably would just confuse people if it weren't. :rolleyes:

TrackIR is sick. I would have got one if I played my PC more often. :o

My Saitek x52 Pro has a little nub thingie on the throttle control for use as a cursor in windows on on menus in games and all that. Pretty nifty to have. This was used for the freelook in IL2. Worked like a charm.

IL-2: Birds of Prey: IL2 Sturmovik - Birds of Prey Demo (http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/games/media/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802464f07d1/) !

Sweet! I love it when the good stuff comes out on my half days at work. :D

I'll try it out this afternoon. Guess I will be getting that flightstick a little sooner than I thought. :p

Thanks for looking out for us, ChiliDog.




Mmmmm....I know what I am having for lunch. *laughs* :p

Wow, awesome!!!! Very very cool! Man, I'm tempted to head out of work early to play this! :)

Any idea if it's MP or SP?

-JR

Eurogamer says SP (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/xbox-live-birds-of-prey-demo-tomorrow).

I live a long way from work so I can't try it till tonight, so please tell us what you think when you can.

Thanks chili, good to know. Looks like you can fly a Spitfire and a P-51, I'm good with that!

-JR

Yeah only single player.

I played through the tutorial and a mission over Dover. On Realistic difficulty I thought it felt great. No doubt it's a simulator. I stalled myself right out of the gate but recovered and got the hang of it. Having the rudder and throttle on the right stick messed with me a bit. It'll take me a little time to gain the coordination.

The sound is great. I dove on a bomber, overshot, tried to adjust and found myself flying level in formation with all the enemies. Turned out I was glad I made the mistake because when all the bombers' guns opened up on me it sounded amazing.

I used to play lots of military flight sims on PC and it's exciting to see a game like this on a console.

I just finished the demo...simply one of the most awesome demos ever!

However, I have the Satiek Aviator AV8R for the 360 and I think my right hand is going to fall off. I just iced it down, but it is still dificult to type this. The sim is so much more intense than IL2-1946, which means constant stick handling, twisting, turning, pulling, stretching fingers etc...and the aviator just is not good enough. I miss my CH Flighstick, peddals and throttle...there are just too many functions for one joystick and wrist to take, it would not be so bad if we had some peddals because the twisting for the rudder is what is killing my hand the most.

The ambidexterous aviator is NOT ERGONOMICALLY GOOD FOR LONG HOURS of frantic play....what else is out there....and dont say the ACE stick because it looks gay and its deadzone is terrible in ACE combat 6!

Oh and my spelling sucks and I dont care because my hand is killing me!

Oh and now I want a friiiiggggiiin CHiliDOG, LOL

Sadly, there isn't anything else out there. The Ace Combat stick and the Saitek Aviator are the only flight sticks available for the Xbox 360.

I haven't downloaded the demo yet. Any signs of take-offs in the demo? Heard something disturbing in a preview the other day that the game appears to always place you in the air. Hopefully it was just the campaign missions the previewer was playing.

Heard something disturbing in a preview the other day that the game appears to always place you in the air.
I've only experienced starts from the air in the demo but I'd be shocked if take offs weren't in the game. The demo has landing so leaving out it's compliment would be crazy.

And l88bastard, you clearly enjoyed the demo but in the end are you recommending the Satiek Aviator? Have you tried with the standard controller? I'm already buying a wheel for Forza 3 and after this demo I begun planning to buy a stick for Sturmovik.

And I too now desire a chilidog :p

I've only experienced starts from the air in the demo but I'd be shocked if take offs weren't in the game. The demo has landing so leaving out it's compliment would be crazy.

And l88bastard, you clearly enjoyed the demo but in the end are you recommending the Satiek Aviator? Have you tried with the standard controller? I'm already buying a wheel for Forza 3 and after this demo I begun planning to buy a stick for Sturmovik.

And I too now desire a chilidog :p

No, I have not tried the standard controller. I have all the bells and whistles for Il-2 1946 on the computer (CH Flightstick, peddals & throttle + TackIR4) and ordered the Aviator the minute I saw a release date for the demo and got the stick the day before the demo dropped...so I had never used the aviator before, but I did not wanna play this game with the xbox control stick because I know better! I also did not wanna spend $100+ for another controller which is why I did not get the Ace stick.

I think the aviator is an average stick, but I do not recommend it for two reasons. First, the twisting feature for rudder control on the stick itself.....I hate it. It is a pain to execute specific moves which require precise stick movement and precise rudder movement and when you have to do it on the same stick it just sucks....imagine pulling back for a climb while you are also twisting it for rudder movement...uggg, you get used to it, but after an hour of frantic play....and I STRESS FRANTIC because this game has non-stop action, your writst is jello. I am not kidding, I had to ice my wrist and hand...this will give you carpel tunnel syndrom guaranteed I am not kidding.

Second, the Ergonomics. Because it is ambidexterous for righties and lefties it is not designed for maximum comfort. The button placement on the base of the stick sucks and is a real pain in the butt for reaching critical buttons while you are trying to fly....you are constantly crossing one of your arms over the other to reach an out of the way button.....and don't get me started on the throttle control which is all the way on the front of the base!

Also, as I was saying earlier, after an hour of frantic play, my palm was sweaty and slipping all over the stick while I was trying to execute rudder movements. I am not a pusseee by any means, but my hand was cramping in a painful claw position and it took an hour of icing and stretching it to make it feel better.

After some investigation and questioning I have found that owners of the ace combat stick really enjoy the hotas setup for this game and I have decided to pull the trigger and buy one myself. I should have it in a few days and will fill you in then....

In short, don't make the same mistake I did, save yourself $40 buy spending $100-$130 for a proper HOTAS setup for this game.

Anybody wanna buy a slighly used AVIATOR? LOL!

just tried the demo and it was great! I used the controller and it does take some getting used to. My buddy has the ace stick and is coming up this weekend. i'll have him bring it

Great feedback l88tbastard. I think I might be in luck, since I used to play IL2 on the PC with a Cyborg EVO, so I was used to all that twisting and turning and reaching for buttons. The one thing that confuses me about the Saitek stick you're using is why the throttle is in the front. I just don't understand why I'd want to reach past where my right hand is. Bizarre.

http://www.saitek.com/uk/images/product/evo.jpg

The only challenge I'm going to struggle with is the way they handle freelook. Can you tell me how that's mapped on the stick? On the controller you have to right click and hold the right stick - which means you're turning off your throttle and rudder control while you freelook - not a good thing.

I can't wait to see your feedback on the Ace Combat stick. I'm debating on what to purchase since the controller just won't hack it for this game.

I loved the tutorial on realistic, it felt natural, if not a bit touchy - but I think that touchiness is simply due to me trying to use a controller instead of a stick - combined with the throttle/rudder combo.

Great feedback l88tbastard. I think I might be in luck, since I used to play IL2 on the PC with a Cyborg EVO, so I was used to all that twisting and turning and reaching for buttons. The one thing that confuses me about the Saitek stick you're using is why the throttle is in the front. I just don't understand why I'd want to reach past where my right hand is. Bizarre.

http://www.saitek.com/uk/images/product/evo.jpg

The only challenge I'm going to struggle with is the way they handle freelook. Can you tell me how that's mapped on the stick? On the controller you have to right click and hold the right stick - which means you're turning off your throttle and rudder control while you freelook - not a good thing.

I can't wait to see your feedback on the Ace Combat stick. I'm debating on what to purchase since the controller just won't hack it for this game.

I loved the tutorial on realistic, it felt natural, if not a bit touchy - but I think that touchiness is simply due to me trying to use a controller instead of a stick - combined with the throttle/rudder combo.

Actually the throttle up front works fine, it really doesnt bother me or feel that unnatural....its just when you have to take your left hand off the throttle and swing it under or over your right arm thats controlling the stick so you can change your view or adjust trims or lock on a new target that it gets annoying.

You are in luck with free look, the joystick works perfectly for that, you just move the thumbstick on the top of the joystick around and it works just like the look thumbstick from call of duty, halo, etc...there is no other archaic button that needs to be pressed like on the controller...I made a video and posted it on youtube so you can see!
http://www.youtube.com/user/l88bastard

And I will tell you something that you are already aware of having played the demo yourself, this is not like the IL-2 on the computer. You had allot of downtime on the computer version...allot of flying and fastforwarding and auto piloting...which means your paws got to rest from full on joystick play. This game is nuts, your always attacking, weaving, evading, pursuing, and killing...it sucks you in and before you know it you had a solid 20 minute battle and your hand is throbbing. In my opinion you need a more ergonomically comfortable joystick with this IL2 than the old one!

I certainly hope you like the Ace Combat stick, it seems possible that the large amount of deadzone the stick suffered from in Ace Combat was Namco's decision and was programmed into the title, rather than a issue with the hardware.

I need to go download the demo. I haven't opened that stick after owning it for several months. I bought all the arcade air combat games at the time besides the still too highly priced Tom Clancy title (Picked up Ace Combat, Over G, and the two Blazing Angels titles) to make me feel less guilty about buying the stick months before the game I really wanted it for, and haven't even gotten around to playing any of it. lol

Now with the game I really wanted coming out soon, those arcade games are in for a long wait before ever being used.

Actually the throttle up front works fine, it really doesnt bother me or feel that unnatural....its just when you have to take your left hand off the throttle and swing it under or over your right arm thats controlling the stick so you can change your view or adjust trims or lock on a new target that it gets annoying.

You are in luck with free look, the joystick works perfectly for that, you just move the thumbstick on the top of the joystick around and it works just like the look thumbstick from call of duty, halo, etc...there is no other archaic button that needs to be pressed like on the controller...I made a video and posted it on youtube so you can see!
http://www.youtube.com/user/l88bastard

And I will tell you something that you are already aware of having played the demo yourself, this is not like the IL-2 on the computer. You had allot of downtime on the computer version...allot of flying and fastforwarding and auto piloting...which means your paws got to rest from full on joystick play. This game is nuts, your always attacking, weaving, evading, pursuing, and killing...it sucks you in and before you know it you had a solid 20 minute battle and your hand is throbbing. In my opinion you need a more ergonomically comfortable joystick with this IL2 than the old one!

That video is great! That seals the deal, I'll be buying that stick. :) That freelook method is much more natural than the controller.

I wonder if the demo is purposely chaotic. I can't imagine the entire game being like this - but if this is an actualy "mission" in the game, then wow, what a difference. I guess they wanted to get rid of the 30 minute gap it'd take to fly to a waypoint. I noticed there was no time multiplier, unlike in IL2 PC where you can move it up to 8X. I'd do that on some of the recon missions if I got tired of just enjoying the feel of flying the plane.

Is there any option to remove the warnings (stall, pull up, etc.) and red highlights on planes? When I see them they tend to pull me out of the immersion aspect of the game.

-JR

I played through some training with the controller. It feels like I could get used to using it, but I don't want to. The 360 really needs to a new (wireless?) flight stick now. I loved the demo, so I guess I will be getting this and whatever I find is the best stick... and whoever said the sound is great wasn't kidding!

That video is great! That seals the deal, I'll be buying that stick. :) That freelook method is much more natural than the controller.

I wonder if the demo is purposely chaotic. I can't imagine the entire game being like this - but if this is an actualy "mission" in the game, then wow, what a difference. I guess they wanted to get rid of the 30 minute gap it'd take to fly to a waypoint. I noticed there was no time multiplier, unlike in IL2 PC where you can move it up to 8X. I'd do that on some of the recon missions if I got tired of just enjoying the feel of flying the plane.

Is there any option to remove the warnings (stall, pull up, etc.) and red highlights on planes? When I see them they tend to pull me out of the immersion aspect of the game.

-JR

Yeaaap all of those warnings come off when you elect to play in simulation mode! In the demo you gotta pass the basic flight tutorial before it unlocks simulation mode for you...since there is no save feature with the demo, everytime you turn it on to play you have to go thru the tutorial again...no big deal.

And yes I read somewhere where the developers said that since this is a console game and the attention span of a typical console gamer is that of a nat, they did away with the long time gaps of nothingness and filled the game with almost constant action.

Well....I have read everyone's impression and couldn't agree more on everything said. Saves me a lot of writing cause my wrist still hurts. :p

Nah. I'll lend in an impression. ;)

*I played this first with the 360 controller*

I downloaded it yesterday after work and played the tutorial first. I had set it for "realistic" difficulty but later found that the tutorial must be always stuck in the casual or whatever the lowest difficult was cause it had all the help functions (such as lead indicator plus it was impossible to stall and the plane would always self level). Good tutorial and got me into the game. The controls were pretty well mapped on the 360 controller. I personally do not like having the throttle and yaw on the right stick though this game doesnt require you to hold the throttle to "GO!" like some other games :rolleyes: so it wasn't as unbearable. The "freelook" is an improvment over Battlefield 1943 but you still lose throttle and yaw when using it. Some genres are just made for PC's it seems.

After getting used to the tutorial, I set out to play the campaign. Immediately had trouble keeping the plane level and keeping it from spinning out. Checked the options menu and decreased the sensitivity on the elevators and ailerons. Helped a bit but it was still a struggle. This is on the middle difficulty, btw. More adjustments and fine tuning on my part are needed.

The controls were very touchy and the action is VERY fast paced. Lots of planes in the air. Graphics and sound are fantastic! Everything seems very well put together save for the eliminated take offs. Wtf?

Authenticity of the planes it great too. The developers spend a good amount of time on the exterior and interior details. The damage modeling was better than most console flight sims but not as good as IL2 on the PC. I still got pumped up when I got blasted by the machinegunners on those bombers. At one point I could barely see out the cockpit windows cause I had black sooty bullet blasts all over. Heheh, I got hit hard but I was still in the fight. I wanted to test the in air collisions too so I rammed one and got my wing clipped off. This was pretty cool but it seemed like this was the only damage I would see everytime I did this. Hmmm.... One collision was more severe as both planes just blew to bits. :p

Got a call from my friend to hang out before I tried the P51 mission. This gave me an opportunity to pick up the Saitek Aviator flightstick.

Not sure if I regret the purchase on not yet...

After reading l88t's impressions, I must concur. I had all the same issues except I quit long before I needed to ice my wrist. :p Still, it was sore after only 15-20mins of flying and my wrist still hurts a bit today....ouchies. Crisscrossing my arms to reach for the essential controls laid on the front of the stick is annoying but usable. Why can't we just remap the controls to how we like?

I must be completely spoiled by my Saitek x52 Pro. Wish the Aviator was more ergnomic. The wrist support was non-movable. A big issue for me as I have small hands. This made the non-movable wrist support damn near useless. Still, there does appear to be some nice immersion from using a stick over the 360 controller. Maybe it's just this game. I need to test the stick out with Over-G Fighters and Ace Combat 6. More time and more sorties flown before I can make a definite descision of whether I will continue to use the flightstick.

This game is awesome though so don't let some of these "downers" turn you off. I guess I (and some others here) are used to IL2 on the pc so we have little to add to what is already fantastic in IL2. I will be buying this when it comes out. :)

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, because I'm sure the problem I'm seeing isn't unique to this game, but it's the first place where it's been this apparent:

In the Sturmovik demo, especially in the Red Skies of Dover mission, I get a nasty rainbow static pattern near the horizon as large patches of the screen switch between very similar off-white colours. I've got a plasma screen (Panasonic TH-46PZ85U), and I've noticed this sort of thing to a much lesser degree in other games with large white or near-white images.

Is this a plasma problem, a Z85 problem, or a my specific TV problem?

Authenticity of the planes it great too. The developers spend a good amount of time on the exterior and interior details. The damage modeling was better than most console flight sims but not as good as IL2 on the PC. I still got pumped up when I got blasted by the machinegunners on those bombers. At one point I could barely see out the cockpit windows cause I had black sooty bullet blasts all over.

Hey Scott, great mini-review! I've still yet to play past the tutorial (thanks l88t for letting me know about the notifications) and am wondering, did you notice any interior damage modeling like in the PC IL2? Such a the dials getting shot up, your in-cockpit pip getting broken, etc.?

Also, do we get the old-school "squeeky squeek" sound if the engine is damaged! :D

-JR

Not that noticed. The damage modeling is detailed but not nearly as much as it was on the PC. There probably could have been good damage inside but I may not have noticed due to having 'tunnel vision' being that I was in the heat of a dogfight. Heheh. To tell you the truth, I haven't had a chance to play anymore of this demo to find out anymore details. :o

I'd like to reserve some judgement for now as demo's aren't always true to how the final game ends up being. Definitely going to brush up on my skills (or lack there of) so I am prepared for the final release.

Good point on it being the demo version. I've yet to go back and give it a shot myself, I still haven't even completed the tutorial. I'll do that tonight and see how things go. I don't have the stick yet, but I'll probably pick it up this week sometime.

I do hope they have some good damage interior damage modeling. I loved it when your PIP got shot to heck, your engine was hit and oil had blotted out most of your visibility, your engine was squeaking itself to failure, you were out of ammo, and you still had someone on your tail. :D

I noticed you said it was easy to spin the plane. Do you still get the "shudder" you'd see in the PC version giving you a slight warning that you were pushing the plane too hard?

-JR

Good point on it being the demo version. I've yet to go back and give it a shot myself, I still haven't even completed the tutorial. I'll do that tonight and see how things go. I don't have the stick yet, but I'll probably pick it up this week sometime.

I do hope they have some good damage interior damage modeling. I loved it when your PIP got shot to heck, your engine was hit and oil had blotted out most of your visibility, your engine was squeaking itself to failure, you were out of ammo, and you still had someone on your tail. :D

I noticed you said it was easy to spin the plane. Do you still get the "shudder" you'd see in the PC version giving you a slight warning that you were pushing the plane too hard?

-JR

over on the 1c forums people are debating back and fourth whether or not there is the shudder sound.... I think there is, but if there is not I always sense when the plane is gonna stall and if I don't baby the stick back and decide to push the envelope it does stall. No doubt you need a flightstick for this game and if you are going to get the aviator then you need to do some simple mods of it.

First there is the twist tie mod...you take two twist ties and bind the two middle sections of the joystick springs together and that reduces the over tension the stick has allowing for much more precise movements. And second you need to find a way to improve the sticks grip because it can get pretty slippery during the heat of battle and all of the twisting and turning of the rudder does not help. I have seen some people put bicycle handlebar grips over the handle, I have seen some people put tennis grip tape over the handle, some people have sanded the handle to be more coarse.....I have not modified the handle because I decided to get the ace stick and I should have it today!

over on the 1c forums people are debating back and fourth whether or not there is the shudder sound.... I think there is, but if there is not I always sense when the plane is gonna stall and if I don't baby the stick back and decide to push the envelope it does stall. No doubt you need a flightstick for this game and if you are going to get the aviator then you need to do some simple mods of it.

First there is the twist tie mod...you take two twist ties and bind the two middle sections of the joystick springs together and that reduces the over tension the stick has allowing for much more precise movements. And second you need to find a way to improve the sticks grip because it can get pretty slippery during the heat of battle and all of the twisting and turning of the rudder does not help. I have seen some people put bicycle handlebar grips over the handle, I have seen some people put tennis grip tape over the handle, some people have sanded the handle to be more coarse.....I have not modified the handle because I decided to get the ace stick and I should have it today!

Definitely keep us in the loop on how the Ace stick works out!

I'm also interested to see how that Ace stick works for you.

I completed the tutorial last night (finally) and jumped into the actual campaign. Although using the controller, for the first few moments it felt as if I needed to calibrate my stick (which I didn't, and couldn't, because I was using a controller) since the plane kept pulling to the left. I'm thinking that maybe my controller has always been a bit broken, and the game is so sensitive that it's registering.

Regardless, I went in and bumped the sensitivity down about two notches, and it felt a bit more natural. I didn't have much of a problem with the plane, no stalls or spins, but the controller just doesn't feel right. I only played the campaign for about 5 minutes, with everything "maxed" out, including no HUD, but one thing I noticed was that it seemed much easier than in the PC IL2 to shoot down enemy aircraft. I recall in IL2 with realistic bullet damage you could sometimes empty your ammo on a bomber and because you didn't strike anything critical - it's just keep flying on.

I also found that I could loiter around the bombers without much fear of getting damaged. Is that part of the game, or just due to my minimal amount of gametime? In the PC IL2 it was a must to come in at high-speed and the right angle, otherwise the bombers defensive gunners would tag you pretty quickly.

I'm going to try to spend some more time on the campaign side today, and I think I'll head over to the 1C forums.

-JR

I'm also interested to see how that Ace stick works for you.

I also found that I could loiter around the bombers without much fear of getting damaged. Is that part of the game, or just due to my minimal amount of gametime? In the PC IL2 it was a must to come in at high-speed and the right angle, otherwise the bombers defensive gunners would tag you pretty quickly.

I'm going to try to spend some more time on the campaign side today, and I think I'll head over to the 1C forums.

-JR

Juice, you are right....it appears that they dumbed down the game allot or consolfied it...You know, they gave it the HALO treatment where you become an almost invincible, unstoppable one man army capable of killing hundreds of enemy in a single sortie!

Realism mode does not seem half as realistic as Sturmovik-1946 on the PC, however it still is a very, very fun game to play. I just look at it as a bonus game to play until IL2 Storm of War comes out on the PC and will probably just play Birds of Prey dogfighting noobz online once I finish the walk you thru while I hold your hand singing soft love songs about cherry blossoms campaign lol.

I find it annoying that you cant crash land either...its like you are flying a two ton T&T bomb doused with gasoline while you are trying to land on an airstrip of fire if you don't come it right...funny how landing was way more forgiving and safe on the PC version which is waaaaay harder and more realistic!

Juice, you are right....it appears that they dumbed down the game allot or consolfied it...You know, they gave it the HALO treatment where you become an almost invincible, unstoppable one man army capable of killing hundreds of enemy in a single sortie!

Hehe. :)

....once I finish the walk you thru while I hold your hand singing soft love songs about cherry blossoms campaign lol.

Are we talking about COD4 now? Oooooohhhh snap! :p

After playing the demo...the controls felt wonky to me.

As in the layout or overall control of the plane? Cause if you thought they are too sensitive there is an option to adjust those. I had to lower the sensitivity a good bit to keep control over the aircraft in realistic or sim modes.

I am glad the game has a padlock control to keep an eye on those bogies. :)

So it has arrived! The Ace Edge, which I was able to score off of Amazon for $129!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/l88bastard/080420094754.jpg

I have been playing with the av8r for the last week and as mentioned earlier, the
av8r gets uncomfortable after a while and really fatigues your wrist. After performing the twist tie mod the av8r is a lot more comfortable and I hear once you put some grip tape or a bicycle handlebar grip over it it becomes a really great stick.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/l88bastard/080420094756.jpg

First off, the ace edge feels far superior than the av8r. The ace is much more comfortable to grip (if your right handed) and fits in my hand like a glove. This is a much heavier and bulkier setup than the Av8r so you are going to need the space for it My desk just is not comfortable enough with it and I might go crazy and design a simpit. Also, my brain is used to the av8r's twisting rudder and I keep finding my self trying to twist the ace stick, lol, gotta reprogram my brain.

Playing BOP there is no deadzone with the ace, the stick is very precise and in my opinion noticibly better then the av8r. It is a lot less frustrating to control and way more forgiving, not to say the av8r is bad, but the ace is just better. I would give the av8r an 8/10 after the twist tie mod (6/10 before mod) and the ace a 9/10 for control... my CH flightsick would get a 10/10 but I cant use it (bastards!). For comfort the av8r gets a 5/10 and the ace gets a 10/10....my CH flightstick would get a 9/10. Also, the FORCE FEEDBACK works with the ACE!!! It is very cool to hit full WEP and feel the rumble in your palm! There is NO FORCE FEEDBACK with the av8r so you miss out on that little feature.

I will say, however, that I am not a big fan of the ace's throttle. The rudder control is a twin reverse trigger setup under the throttle handle and it is very awkward to use because your index and middle fingers are supposed to work it and its hard to get precise rudder movements from the two least precise fingers, besides my pinkie, on my left hand (I am right handed). You have to do light, light rudder movements and that is pretty hard to do with those two fingers, also I have large hands so my hand is really to big to conform to the throttle so it is annoying. Also, because of the arching nature of the throttle, when you have full power and the throttle is all the way forward, you have to hold it with your left hand at a weird uncomfortable angle. I believe this problem would be remidied if I had the throttle much lower than my sitting position, but I do not have a freaking simpit to use, I just have my dang desk! I wish I could reverse the throttle where I could pull it back for power instead because this is a more comfortable angle to hold the throttle and most of the time you are flying with 75%-100% throttle. This would not be as much of a problem if your hand did not constantly need to be on the throttle (when I play the pc version Im rarely holding the throttle because the controls are spread out to the keyboard and rudder peddals) and you do not have that luxury with the consol controls because you have limited buttons and limited controller input real estate.

Back to the main stick, I am also not a fan of the pinky tigger. Because I have big hands I cradle the pinky trigger and am constantly pressing it on accident. This is not so much of a problem on simulator setting because that button is useless, but on the other modes it keeps pulling up the padlock selection. The look R-Stick is easier to use then the AV8rs look stick, but that is not saying much because I hate using look sticks because I am addicted to using TRACK IR! It is very frustrating, like the twisting rudder, my brain is trained to use track ir and i find myself constantly moving my head hoping it will pan my view but to no avail....DAMN YOU NO TRACK IR ON CONSOLS!

All in all, the ace stick is an improvement, if you have the money and a choice I recommended it hands down over the av8r....however it does only leave you wanting more....if I could have some rudder peddals and track ir I would be a pig in slop....going from the av8r to the ace is like going from the 50 to the opposing teams 25 yardline....close enough to the goal and score three points, but far enough away to be really frustrating when you need seven!...DAMMIT GIVE ME RUDDER PEDALS AND TRACK IR!

Love the review, and great picture!!!

After reading your review, I think I'm actually going to go with the Aviator stick. Like you, I have monster hands, and the throttle and rudder areas sound like they'd eventually drive me absolutely insane. I'm so used to the twist-rudder style (I used the Cyborg EVO stick with IL2, and all of the BF series) that I don't know if I could reprogram my brain like you're doing. Additionally, I don't play on a desk, so it'd be a huge challenge for me to try to set up the Ace stick and throttle.

I'm still concerned about the dead zone issue with the Aviator, so I'll give that twist-tie mod a shot when I pick it up. Where did you get the info for that mod?

BTW, mind sharing a close-up of whatever that picture is on your desk? ;)

-JR

Is it me or does this demo crash alot? I get an Xbox window that says; "there was an error hit A to return to main menu", or something like that.
I love the demo don't get me wrong but mine is buggy as hell, hope the full game isn't.

Love the review, and great picture!!!

After reading your review, I think I'm actually going to go with the Aviator stick. Like you, I have monster hands, and the throttle and rudder areas sound like they'd eventually drive me absolutely insane. I'm so used to the twist-rudder style (I used the Cyborg EVO stick with IL2, and all of the BF series) that I don't know if I could reprogram my brain like you're doing. Additionally, I don't play on a desk, so it'd be a huge challenge for me to try to set up the Ace stick and throttle.

I'm still concerned about the dead zone issue with the Aviator, so I'll give that twist-tie mod a shot when I pick it up. Where did you get the info for that mod?

BTW, mind sharing a close-up of whatever that picture is on your desk? ;)

-JR

Dont be concerned about the av8r deadzone, the only real problem with the av8r is the spring because it adds too much tension when you are trying to make precise moves...you can lesson this tension by how much you tighten the twist tie and how big of a gap you leave between the two middle coils. I bound the two middle coils completely together and it gives it a looser more precise feel which virtually eliminates any deadzone feel.

I would recommend the av8r for you because the tradeoffs of the ace would drive you nuts. Everybody that has an Ace acts like there is no downside to it, and there would not be any downside to it if it allowed you to have foot peddals and if the trim dials actually worked. Once you mod up the av8r you will be very happy I am sure.

I found the mod info over in the 1c surmovik birds of prey forums...there is also a guy over there that moved the av8rs buttons into more sensible places and it did not look that hard to do..

You cant go wrong with either stick, the ace is better but not perfect! Oh and if I put a bigger picture of my baby up on teh internetz she might kill me, lol

Thanks l88t, aviator it is then! I'm travelling for vacation the next week, so I'll pick it up when I get back and get my game on.

I understand about the picture. ;)

-JR

Anybody understand japanese?

I am trying to see if these would work for the ace edge stick on the xbox 360 and where to buy them and for how much?

http://www.hori.jp/manual/fst2_ped_annai/

I have to say I'm very disappointed in the flight modeling of the Xbox version I just played.

For the record I have over 400 hours in light aircraft including almost 200 hours in a turbocharged Mooney 231 as pilot in command. I also have almost 100 hours in the backseat of F-16 models (B,D and F models) so I'm no stranger to flight and flight dynamics.

What I found was the P-51 seems to be very underpowered in the modeling. There is NO WAY at the rate of turn I was pushing the airplane through that it would stall. The stalls continue at the same rate of apparent G-loading even up to a speed of over 400 knots (100% power, 20 degrees down and the damn thing STILL stalls)

It is great they actually model stall/spins but I don't think they are using any sort of real flight model to do so and that sucks!

I have to say I'm very disappointed in the flight modeling of the Xbox version I just played.

For the record I have over 400 hours in light aircraft including almost 200 hours in a turbocharged Mooney 231 as pilot in command. I also have almost 100 hours in the backseat of F-16 models (B,D and F models) so I'm no stranger to flight and flight dynamics.

What I found was the P-51 seems to be very underpowered in the modeling. There is NO WAY at the rate of turn I was pushing the airplane through that it would stall. The stalls continue at the same rate of apparent G-loading even up to a speed of over 400 knots (100% power, 20 degrees down and the damn thing STILL stalls)

It is great they actually model stall/spins but I don't think they are using any sort of real flight model to do so and that sucks!

Agreed on all parts (concerning the P51, especially) although I have no where near that kind of flight time in real light aircraft. I have flown a few lessons since I was about 10 years old, usually in a Piper Tomahawk. The P51 mission in the demo gave me a headache and I just didnt want to play it. Too bad cause the P51 is one of my favorite aircraft. :(

I will still give the full version a spin but the more I play the demo the more I want to play the PC version. Arrrrggghhh!

Agreed on all parts (concerning the P51, especially) although I have no where near that kind of flight time in real light aircraft. I have flown a few lessons since I was about 10 years old, usually in a Piper Tomahawk. The P51 mission in the demo gave me a headache and I just didnt want to play it. Too bad cause the P51 is one of my favorite aircraft. :(

I will still give the full version a spin but the more I play the demo the more I want to play the PC version. Arrrrggghhh!

Thinking more about it, I could put my MOONEY with 210 horsepower 30 degrees nose down and get better aileron roll rates AND be able to load more Gs up in the turn than the modeled P51 in the demo. If you chase the German aircraft in the demo mission you will see that they have better roll and G-loading rates than the P51.

the spitfire in the 1st mission even handles better than the p51!

How much fuel is in the aircraft? P-51's were known for being very unstable with a full fuel load for long range escort missions until the fuel in the 85 gallon fuselage tank had been burned off.

I still haven't tried the demo personally, my computer chair broke a while ago and I've yet to replace it so I can race and fly on my PC and consoles again.

I have to say I'm very disappointed in the flight modeling of the Xbox version I just played.

For the record I have over 400 hours in light aircraft including almost 200 hours in a turbocharged Mooney 231 as pilot in command. I also have almost 100 hours in the backseat of F-16 models (B,D and F models) so I'm no stranger to flight and flight dynamics.

What I found was the P-51 seems to be very underpowered in the modeling. There is NO WAY at the rate of turn I was pushing the airplane through that it would stall. The stalls continue at the same rate of apparent G-loading even up to a speed of over 400 knots (100% power, 20 degrees down and the damn thing STILL stalls)

It is great they actually model stall/spins but I don't think they are using any sort of real flight model to do so and that sucks!

Agreed on all parts as well. FOr the record I only care about Storm of War, which is the PC version coming out sometime this year or next year (hopefully). This is just to pass the time waiting for that.

On a more troubling note, over at the 1c Birds of Prey forums, they are now reporting that NONE of the German planes have their cockpits in the game. Apparently, if you are flying a german plane you only get the VIrtual Cockpit...Very Lazy and very dissapointing, this just about kills the online multiplayer aspect of this game for me because, the german planes will have a huge advantage with field of view and the immersion of flying them is completely gone!

How much fuel is in the aircraft? P-51's were known for being very unstable with a full fuel load for long range escort missions until the fuel in the 85 gallon fuselage tank had been burned off.



I don't believe that fuel modeling is even included in the game, considering the current shortcomings. To be fair to the P51 in the demo, it does have rockets attached. :rolleyes:



On a more troubling note, over at the 1c Birds of Prey forums, they are now reporting that NONE of the German planes have their cockpits in the game. Apparently, if you are flying a german plane you only get the VIrtual Cockpit...Very Lazy and very dissapointing, this just about kills the online multiplayer aspect of this game for me because, the german planes will have a huge advantage with field of view and the immersion of flying them is completely gone!

What what wwwhhhhaaaaaatttt?!?! What the hell. *sigh* I hope that isn't true. :(

Ahhhhh they showed a few more levels in this demo of the game...also on twitter they said that there will be cockpits for german planes....GREAT NEWS!!!

Heres the recorded stream of the final game....around twenty minutes he starts showing new stuff...before then its all the same stuff you see in the live demo

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1976329

That's good news, I doubted they wouldn't be there anyways since it made so little sense for them to not model the cockpits for German aircraft.

I needed more evidence than 1 French preview in a language no forum members could read, before I'd of given the rumor a second thought though.

Anybody not really enjoy the demo and are instead looking forward to Heroes over Europe?

Anybody not really enjoy the demo and are instead looking forward to Heroes over Europe?

Ugg take your HOE somewhere else please, the HOE does not belong in the same breath as BOP!

I was just kidding. HOE is for kindygartens

So i'm probably going to pick this up as well as the Saitek- just wondering if you are able to remap the buttons on the stick (looks like the L1/R1 are on the base of the stick)
Also how does the WEP work on the throttle lever?

Cant remap buttons as far as I know and WEP works when you have it set to full throttle, pull the throttle back to 95% to disengage WEP. IE you dont have to continue to hold the throttle like you do on the gamepad.

Does this become an issue? The fire button is RT on the controller, which looks like the throttle on the stick.

Also for anyone with both consoles, the ps3 version might be the one to get, as it doesn't suffer from the framerate drop when flying through downed enemys.

Loving the demo so far. Seems like the default settings for the realistic/sim mode should be tweaked. Because at first it appears to be anything but with the stalls/spins. Reducing the sensitivity helped a lot with the controller. I hear with a good stick it's not as much of an issue. Over on 1C, they are saying it uses the exact same flight model as the "1946" PC version. It's simply too easy to jerk a 1 cm stick to the max position. They confirmed that the missing audio cues for stalls are a demo issue. Unfortunately it seems as though the german cockpit issue is true, sort of. It will launch without them and the german cockpits will come as DLC. Very odd decision for a program with sim roots. I'm buying because I want to see more games with at least sim-like features on the 360.

Unfortunately it seems as though the german cockpit issue is true, sort of. It will launch without them and the german cockpits will come as DLC.

Sounds like the devs realized that without the german cockpits their core audience would freak out. A true shame it'll be DLC, but that sounds like they can't make the original release time and will at least give it to the fans later. I'm fine with that - as long as it's free.

-JR

The demo completely turned me off to the game. I can deal with simplified controls and things, but they killed the realism since there's no limited ammo, no limited fuel, no way to set your convergence, etc. The damage model seems way worse than on the PC. Hopefully the real product will be better but I was really disappointed in the demo. The graphics, sound, and presentation are all light years better, but that doesn't mean anything when they butchered the core game. :(

Taylor34

The demo completely turned me off to the game. I can deal with simplified controls and things, but they killed the realism since there's no limited ammo, no limited fuel, no way to set your convergence, etc. The damage model seems way worse than on the PC. Hopefully the real product will be better but I was really disappointed in the demo. The graphics, sound, and presentation are all light years better, but that doesn't mean anything when they butchered the core game. :(

Taylor34

I know where you're coming from. After many run throughs I finally deleted the demo last night. I'm going to wait on this one and see how others like the full game before purchasing. The exact things you're pointing out, as well as some other small factors (the gameplay is just a wee bit to frantic for me), has turned my buzzing excitement into a dull murmur.

I'm not giving up on the game, and from the Xbox side it really is probably going to be the best "flight" game to be released of it's type, but for now I'm going to hold off on pre-ordering.

I'm hoping for the best on this game, so come the second week of September I'm going to be eagerly awaiting some reviews!

-JR

Not that I am big on reviews, I respect ign the most and they gave it an 8.6 with Editors Choice!
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/102/1020377p1.html

Cant wait, according to gamestop this comes out EARLY this Thursday the 3rd!

Hmmm... my friend told me it was coming out today (the 2nd)... Gah! Which one is it? Ehhh, I'll be by a gamestop so I will just go check it out. Sounds like a few here are waiting to hear what others think about it. Will I be the poor bastard that picks it up? Maybe ..... maybe. :p

I picked this lovely up today! It is excellent and well worth the $49.99!

If you have some time later, I'd love to read a mini review from you, l88bastard.

If you have some time later, I'd love to read a mini review from you, l88bastard.

I RETRACT MY FORMER STATEMENT

Meh, im half way done with campaign and the honeymoon is over for me. Much like a beautiful woman with no brain, this game gets dull quick once you find out she is riddled with STDs (WHAT lol).

My first gripe is the worst and a deal breaker for me, unfortunately I already spent $49.99 for the game and $130 for the Ace Edge, so I have been completely burned. Joystick support sucks, really the small amount of deadzone is just annoying and you really don't pick up on it with the demo, but given the full game and a lengthy amount of time, the frustration really adds up, here is my full take on it

The jumpyness and deadzone are driving me crazy. I have the ace edge and have made it into the American campaing on simulator setting and I think that I don't want to continue playing the game anymore because the jumpyness and deazone is just too frustrating.

Im not trying to compare it to the PC version, but the PC version is miles better in terms of accuracy and lining up precise deflection shots....I dont know if its because I use the CH fighterstick on the PC and am used to the nimble accuracy of that stick or what...but I have tried to use the ace edge on the pc (trying to get more used to the stick in preparation for BOP) but I did not like the way it played on the PC version at all because it is very very stiff.

I had an aviator previously and liked the lighter feeling of that stick, but the jumpyness and deadzone were still there driving me crazy, which is why I got the ace, but it appears that things are not better and infact worse with the ACE because it is stiffer.

I seem to have more enjoyment when I play this console version with the gamepad (smaller deadzone and less jumpyness) because the game appears to really have been made for the game pad.....and that really sucks.

So, I have switched over and unplugged the ace edge and been playing with the controller, which is way easier and more precise to fly with...yea thanks for making me waste $130 1c, "simulator," setting my ass!!

So after playing for a while I can say that at about the halfway mark, I have no desire to play the game anymore....it gets boring and tedious (big wave after wave after wave of enemy) and that is funny because I can play the pc version all day long! They just filled up the sky with soo much random action that you actually feel useless and for the most part you are as it seems like a majority of the missions will just end in successful completion wheater you really contribute or not, the enemy planes have weak AI, they just perform simple turns and sweeps and the missions are really just boring now. Like I said, beautiful visuals, but you get over them quickly and then your left with a mediocre amount of real substance or a pregnant ****** that has lost its looks an now just makes you wanna change your name and flee the country. Its just too dumbed down, its annoying.

I knew it was not going to be the PC version, but I am so spoiled with having all of the goodies (track ir, precise flightstick, pedals, throttle, keyboard, and higher resolution, actual take off and landings, the feel of a real simulator and not some half ass kiddie game) that I cannot hack it with a game pad or a deadzone ridden flightsick experience....its just too sub par!

In closing, rent this sucker and by God dont waste the money on a flight stick and if you do get an aviator for forty bucks or buy my ace edge off of ebay when I put it up, lol.

In closing, if they FIX the joystick deadzone problem, then maybe it would be worth it, but it doesnt look like they are so buyer beware.

This guy also gave it a review that I agree with

I have to aire my own personal opinions on this game after, having been an avid fan on Oleg Maddox from the beginning, purchasing all his PC work & addons, I feel I am entitled to a say re: this console attempt.
Being a lucky owner of PS3 & 360, I have been so looking forward to this game for what seems an age. I remember reading the promises & words like "realism", "sim" etc etc. This was supposed to be everything that is IL-2, coming to console but I have to say, it couldn't be further set apart & in my opinion, the only thing that seperates this from the highly arcade "Blazing Angels 2" is no floating 'powerups' in the sky.

Allow me to backup my opinion & compare BoP to the IL-2 series.
The last PC offering "IL-2 Sturmovik 1946" has over 250 playable aircraft, ALL WITH COCKPITS (so Anoton's explanation of money trade offs to leave out German Cockpits from a paultry stable of 40 aircraft of which only around 12 have cockpits, is a bit baffling, especially when you compare the price differences between these titles), a fantastic immersion is always felt in 1946 in the most simplistic of ways; taking off for example before each mission. Why on earth has the player been denied the option to take off from his airfield with his squadron? Where's the immersion in being "thrown" in the air with no background of the mission, very little target information etc.
Speaking of immersion, I was looking forward to flying & gunning from the Blenheim bomber as I was told by the booklet aswell as reviews that the camera cycles from view to view & incorporates a gunners eye view. Now forgive me here but I was assuming that at the very least, the gunning could be done from his viewpoint but in third person???? How is this immersive? How is this realistic? How is this even bearly enjoyable?
1946 will put the player from position to position within the aircraft at the touch of a single key & with no expense spared, beautifully rendered bomber cockpit, bomb aimer station & gun pod etc.
1946 incorporates an extremely powerful yet such a simple-to-use mission editor whereby the player can create his or her own missions by use of waypoints, & capping it all off by dropping in static cameras in which to view the action after the mission (or even during). Have a look at some of these on youtube, they're incredible & all done ingame.
Now I fully realise the dominant numbers of the console market have no wish for such a tool but .... not even having a flyby view or any options for the player to view a fantastic dogfight that he or she has just taken part in?? Come on!!!
Flight controls. I bought the AV8R-02 especially for the 360 version of the game I purchased (after playtesting both 360 & PS3 demo versions to death) &, like many threads state here, the dead zone is enormous & completely unplayable.
Also, Playing in realistic mode & reaching for the 'padlock enemy' camera button, you actually have to take your hands OFF the flight controls when viewing the enemy. Thinking a simple remapping would obviously solve this, I'm so disappointed to find that even this simple yet crucial task is denied to the player.
I'm fully aware that there has to be sacrafices made to incorporate a console version of a FlightSim but all the things I have stated HAVE BEEN DONE BEFORE ON CONSOLE. Operation Flashpoint on the original Xbox was a PC port & kept the fantastic mission editor intact, the incredible & now respected & highly under rated OVER G FIGHTERS for 360 enabled to player to relive his or her dogfights in multiple camera views aswell as incorporating great cockpits for each one of its aircraft & obviously allowed for customizable controls aswell as allowing the player the chance to taxi, take off & land.
The online area of this is a joke, I'm sorry but there's no other way to describe a ranked player dogfight where you clearly have such an edge over your opponent (or vica versa) & he or she can bearly fly from the direct result of your gunning. he can bearly stay in the air but then he stalls near the ground, goes into terra ferma & you are NOT REWARDED THE KILL???? So I am clearly outmatched, smoke pouring from my Hurricane, can't see out of the cockpit visor (obviously not a German aircraft or a Blenheim then); what's going to stop me from heading south & ploughing into the ground? there's no points loss & hey, I get to start far above my oppenent in a nice shiney new plane!
I've not even made any intentions to go into the anoraky bits like the spits in BoB actually being Mk.Vb's & the hilarity of the P-51 cockpit actually being a P-47 because those elements don't detract from the consoles gameplay. This title could have been so much more but once again, there is a developer out there that thinks that they have to 'dumb' games down for the console generation.
I should've trusted my instincts I guess when there was no Oleg Maddox or Maddox games label attached to this title.
One of your forum members has summed this console 'GAME' in 2 glorious sentences.
"Gameplay 5/10, Graphics 9/10. It's like a beautiful but very dumb woman"
Here's a link to just one video I made using IL-2 Sturmovik 1946's ingame cameras. Imagine if you could do this & view your dogfights in such a way in BoP. It is however supposedly the next generation of gaming & IL-2 has been around for so long!

Ok, so I figured some things out. I usually play my xbox on my computer monitor, which is a gateway xhd3000, well the scaler in my monitor induces lag when your not playing at native resolution of 2560x1600, and that lag combined with the minimal amount of deadzone made playing this game unbearable!

Also, I was pretty uncomfortable playing with my ace edge and throttle on my desk, they sat too high and my posture was much like somebody riding a Chopper motorcycle, lol.

So, I played on my Samsung 1080p 40" HDTV instead and man what a world of difference! Also, I made myself a makeshift little cockpit on my couch and the game is an absolute blast to play now...I just played multiplayer dog fighting for the last three hours!!

Now I wanna break out my Sanyo Z4 and put this thing up to like 120," then position my lazyboy in front of that and really make a more confortable cockpit area for it...problem is I dont have the space in my house to do this:mad:

So yes, I apologize for the up and down posts, but after giving this title a second and third chance, I am very very pleased with it!

Good to hear that you are enjoying the game now. I was bummed out when I read your previous review, but now I'm excited again. I looked for the game at my Local Best Buy on Saturday, but could not find it. Where did you find it? Also, where can I find the Ace Edge controller?

Thanks.

Good to hear that you are enjoying the game now. I was bummed out when I read your previous review, but now I'm excited again. I looked for the game at my Local Best Buy on Saturday, but could not find it. Where did you find it? Also, where can I find the Ace Edge controller?

Thanks.

I got the game at Gamestop and you can find the ace edge on amazon.com or ebay and sometimes even craigslist! I have seen them go for as low as $60!

If you love dogfighting then this game is a must have! The single player is beautiful, but the AI is pretty weak which can make the SP tedious at times...yes the game has its faults and multi is not perfect with the lack of german cockpits (which we have been told will come in DLC soon!) and the lack of kill registering if your quary bails out or crashes, and the inability to join games in progress (hopefully they allow this!), and the bit of deadzone which is not soo bad on a good tv with good response time.

However, this game does many things brilliantly well, the sense of speed, the visuals, the realistic flight modeling, the adrenaline rush from shooting down an elusive enemy, and for $49.99 it really is a bargain!

If you get this game you need a flightstick, period, but make sure that you have a comfortable setup with it otherwise it will drive you nuts!

The Siatek Aviator just dropped to $40 onAmazon (http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-PS41-Aviator-Joystick-Console/dp/B001EYU1W8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1253194538&sr=8-1).

It's showing up as $37 from "Super Deal" with $8.40 shipping but on the right side under more buying choices you can get it from Amazon which is eligable for free shipping. Looks like it'll be 1-2 weeks before you get it.

Is there a strong multiplayer community for this game? I would think that it would be rather small as I don't think many consol players will have the patience for this type of game. But at the same time, I would guess that the guys who are playing are very dedicated.

I would mostly be buying this game for its multiplayer (although I would still play through the campaign,) so I just wanted to check to make certain that the multiplayer aspect is alive and well.

Thanks.

It can be a challenge finding a MP game sometimes, but I think it is deceiving as to the number of people that are actually playing. Active games don't show up on the list, so it can seem as if no one is playing while in actuality there can be a number of games in progress. Just host a room, and usually 5 or 6 people will show up in short order.

It's also much easier to find an arcade game (*blech*) than it is to find realistic or sim. It has picked up somewhat in the past week too. My suspicion is that a number of people were focusing on campaign in order to unlock all of the planes. IMHO, once you get the Spit Mk IX in Sicily, you've got all you need.

For anyone who didn't pick this up yet, Amazon has it for sale for $19.99 (before shipping).

-JR

O rly? Anyone still play this at all? Is the online area still active?

Lolz....with ME2, Dead Space and now BFBC2 demo I will probably not have time for it. For $20 its hard to pass....

Damnit! I have gift cards for Amazon....what the hell. :p

EDIT: FYI guys.... this is on sale from Amazon but it doesn't appear to be in stock. Shipping quotes say, "Usually shipped in 1-2 months."

O rly? Anyone still play this at all? Is the online area still active?

Lolz....with ME2, Dead Space and now BFBC2 demo I will probably not have time for it. For $20 its hard to pass....

Damnit! I have gift cards for Amazon....what the hell. :p

EDIT: FYI guys.... this is on sale from Amazon but it doesn't appear to be in stock. Shipping quotes say, "Usually shipped in 1-2 months."

Whoopsy, I didn't even check for availability! My mistake.

I'm with you Scott, I'm playing ME2, DA:O, Dead Space impossible, MW2, and now the BFBC2 demo, so another game would probably be silly.

But like you said, for $20, it's hard to pass up! I guess I won't grab it from Amazon, since 1-2 months could mean anything, and by then it could be $19.99 in a local B&M.

-JR