I am looking for suggestions on a universal remote, that makes life "simple"

The primary equipment to control:

Panasonic 42PZ800U TV
Panasonic BluRay BD50
Denon 1909
Sony HDD-500

The Panasonic "Viera Link" ties together the BluRay, TV, and the Denon (leaving out "sound" control buttons). "Viera Link" also leaves out the Sony Box (understandable).

The single biggest problem with universal remotes, is finding one with enough single use programmable keys, that are global for all devices (such as the Denon sound fields, or picture settings on the Plasma).

It appears to me that even "expensive" remotes $250 and more do not allow for those adjustments unless you go through a whole series of menu screens, which really defeat the purpose of the remote?

So far a remote like this one is the best I have been able to come up with? There has to be better ones with more flexibility, without adding extreme complexity.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=11035501&tab=Features

But it would be a lot better if it had 12 custom buttons at the bottom instead of just 4.

Your suggestions are welcome.

i personally like the harmony remotes... simple to set up, simple to use...

i tried using a mx series urc remote... it wasn't worth the effort for me... i've been a programmer for 25 years (even using that nasty assembler stuff :) ), and it was a challenge to set up... plus their software only runs on that nasty windows stuff :p , so i had to borrow someone's xp laptop to program it... i eventually got it to work, but got rid of it and went back to harmony...

ymmv...

Take a look at the Harmony 670. It has Pic (Picture) and Sound buttons, and you can select what commands should be in the menu. You could add all the Denon sound fields to the Sound button, and the Plasma picture settings to the Pic button. Then you could push the Pic or Sound and see only the menu items that you added on the LCD screen.

You will still see all of the menu if you go into Device mode, but just the limited set in the Pic or Sound mode.

You can see the 670 at BB or CC .

If you are not familiar with the Harmony remotes, you add your devices and then set up activities for Watch Movie or Watch TV, etc and operate in Activity mode most of the time.

Like you, I much prefer lots of buttons to navigating through page after page of menus on a remote. The Sony and Harmony are fine remotes, but you can put ANY function or macro on ANY key (except device selection keys) on UEI made remotes like the radio shack 15-134, 15-135, 15-100, One-For-All, etc. Better yet, put whatever you like on shifted versions of those keys which won't interfere with the key's primary functions. That's over 100 spots per device mode to put whatever function you like, directly accessible by 1 or 2 key presses. If you want to take it to the next level, get a JP1 cable and program it from your PC (avoid the 15-100 if you want to do this), adding the ability to have different functions for short key presses, long key presses, and double key presses, as well as device status tracking, fast macros, nested macros, device key macros, variable length pauses, etc. Check out the links in my signature.

I have the harmony 880 an love it. I have the bloew setup on it.

1. sanyo z4 projector
2. toshiba a30 hd-dvd
3. sony bdp-301 blu-ray
4. onkyo tx-sr605 receiver
5. htpc vista media center
6. lutron lights
7. hd-dvd play and lights off command
8. blu-ray play and lights off command
9. media center sd-dvd play and lights off command
10. working on wife out of the theater command :) :) :)

Thanks everyone for the input. mdavej pretty well hit the nail on the head............it is crazy that no one make a really simple easy to use remote, and hitting a dozen buttons, and reading menu screens is not the answer.

I am doing a little more reseach; particularly regarding the "shift" capability of various remotes.............this opens up a few dozen simple possiblities - to actually control everything with only "two" buttons at most................interesting!

Like you, I much prefer lots of buttons to navigating through page after page of menus on a remote. The Sony and Harmony are fine remotes, but you can put ANY function or macro on ANY key (except device selection keys) on UEI made remotes like the radio shack 15-134, 15-135, 15-100, One-For-All, etc. Better yet, put whatever you like on shifted versions of those keys which won't interfere with the key's primary functions. That's over 100 spots per device mode to put whatever function you like, directly accessible by 1 or 2 key presses. If you want to take it to the next level, get a JP1 cable and program it from your PC (avoid the 15-100 if you want to do this), adding the ability to have different functions for short key presses, long key presses, and double key presses, as well as device status tracking, fast macros, nested macros, device key macros, variable length pauses, etc. Check out the links in my signature.

mdavej

I have found the Radio Shack 15-135 on line. I will have to look at it in a store. The very few One-For-All I have seen on-line do not have buttons?

Generally, it seems the more buttons the better, so if you know of model numbers I should be looking for, please let me know.

I will also spend more time on the links you have provided.


Billybeatnik and other have mentioned the Harmony 670, so I will look at that one as well. One of the problems is being able to do this by feel and not sight, so do not know how well an LCD screen will work? It is so nice to have just a "button" and you know what it does just by its location on the remote.

By no buttons, I assume you're talking about the kameleon line. I'm not a fan of the kameleon, but shift still works fine with its virtual buttons. The Remotes link in my sig has a pretty comprehensive list of UEI remotes. In addition to the radio shack ones, you may also like the URC-8820, URC-6131, or Atlas OCAP. One-for-all is usually easy to find at big box retailers like walmart, target and circuit city. They currently have a ton of remotes in football team colors, but those don't have a lot of extra buttons.

Just to follow up about "shift". The shift button is the setup or program key. It's an undocumented feature of UEI remotes, aside from the manuals for the a few of their european models. I don't know of any other's that do it. The downside of course is remembering what buttons you put everything on, hence the main reason for remotes with graphic displays and menus. But a taking an intuitive approach usually overcomes that problem. For example, shift-1, 2, 3, etc. could be inputs 1, 2, 3 on your TV. Shift-mute could do closed captioning, or shift-stop could be eject for your DVD player, shift-power could be a master power off macro. The 15-134 has a ViewTV button which is a great place for a Watch TV activity macro to power everything on and do all the source switching.

Let us know what you end up with.

the problem with "shift" logic is that while it might work for the person who actually programs the remote, it might get somewhat frustrating for the person who just wants to pick it up and use it...

"honey, what button do i need to push again"... :)

it makes me flash back to the old days of wordstar with all those multiple key combinations... :eek:

Ok, out of these three models - URC-8820, URC-6131, Atlas OCAP; I like the URC 8820 best.

The 8 "transport" buttons will work for my systems, and the layout of volume, channel, cursor will be easy to find blindfolded.

I do agree that shift keys are a pain because you:

Have to remember stuff AND
have to explain to wife!

Both of those skills, I am lacking.

Today, I will attempt working on the Sony Remote and see how far I get...........it would be all manual work UGH. It will require about 40 individual keys to program, and only 4 of them can be macro buttons. As of right now it controls 99% of the Sony DHG-HDD500, about 35% of the Plasma 800U (missing cursor controls and selections), and about 10% of the BluRay, and zero of the Denon. But at least "all" its buttons are individually programable to "one" step.

Generally, it went well; but did take a few hours.

It does about 95% of want I want it to do.

It will not turn some items "on" in a macro because you are unable to build long enough "time-outs" for equipment to fully turn on, before switching sources, etc. So it's marco building is a little on the Mickey Mouse side.

You can get all equipment to turn off and reset sources to a pre-determined "source point" - that is because the equipment is already "on" and ready to "set"

Generally, the programming on this remote would "not" be successful, if three pieces of the equipment were not already Viera-Link III compatible (That is the Plasma, BluRay, and the Denon). That alone elimintated about 60% of the traditional programming and saved a lot of time.

This remote is already about 3 years old and Sony has NOT updated new models to the latest equpment out there. In other words it only did a low percentage of "button" matching on the Plasma and BluRay since they are 2008 models.

Also, because of its age and very heavy use, I can tell some parts of it are about to wear out.

Perhaps the most awkward part was mapping buttons for the BluRay, I ended up using channel up and down for skip forward and back for transport functions.

The Denon part of the programming was the easiest, because all that was need was 8 sound field choices, and 3 Quick Selects, and the number address that essentially matching the Denon’s remote layout.

The URC-8820 seems to be the number one candidate for replacing this old remote, so will see what happens in the next few weeks. Clear advantages for the 8820: It has a much better "transport button" layout area and it is more complete. And there are more buttons available. Throw in the custom programming via computer with lots of flexibility in macros, means it should be a lot better.

A couple of things I like about the VL-600. It runs almost all of my equipment the way I want. I do not have to look at it, I can do what I want - change sources, on, off, select, etc. all by feel.

But over all I do not recommend it because: 1. It is dated - codes are not up to date, it does not address very much equipment accurately if made the last 2-3 years. 2. Macro power is very limited. 3. Transport buttons are not up to par for more of todays more advanced equipment (seems to be a common problem for a lot of remotes on the market).

Again, I would take a look at the Harmony 670. It was designed for DVR users. I don't have a DVR, but I do have the Scientific Atlanta 4250HD cable box. When the guide is up, there are page up/down buttons. The remote has dedicated transport buttons for the DVR and DVD functions. My dedicated buttons control both my Cable box and HD DVD player. Plus the buttons are in the center of the remote, so I can easily reach them with my thumb. One thing I did not have dedicated buttons for, was the A, B & C buttons for my cable box. However I was able to add those buttons to the LCD screen for any activity that uses that box.

When you set up your activities, the software asks questions about what device should control the volume and change channels, etc. You operate in Activity mode, not Device mode. You use Device mode when you want to access other commands for a particular device.

In my Watch TV Activity, I have my volume control set up for my receiver and TV for changing channels.

I have another activity for watching TV via my HD cable box. I have the receiver doing volume, and the cable box doing channel changing.

My Watch TV Activity turns on my TV, receiver, cable box (not used in this activity, but turned on anyway), sets the TV and receiver to the correct inputs. The channel buttons change channels on the cable box and the volume buttons control the AVR.

My Watch Movie Activity turns on the equipment (if not on) and sets the correct inputs. The transport buttons control the DVD player.

If your activities are set up correctly, you rarely have to go into Device mode for routine operation. One button turns on your devices and selects the correct inputs.

It can take several tries to get the settings just the way you like them. Power on and other delays are selectable if you need to change them.

The Activities are like macros, except you answer questions during Activity setup and your computer programs the remote. If you need additional macros, Harmony has Sequences which will do five commands, but you may not even need them.

Yes in the Harmony line the 670 would be my choice, and I still have that remote on my short list. It has 8 transport buttons which I can live with, but prefer 11 to match the Sony DVR. The layout of the transports controls, cursor controls, and Up/Down buttons are excellent. All of those can be found easily without looking.

I notice it has a “sound” button. Can that button be macro-ed t the AVR to custom map? The 11 or 12 keys on the number pad (each of the 12 keys does something different), then time out after 10 seconds of non-use and automatically revert back to your previous use device? Also, each of those 12 keys on the keypad operated as individual “toggle” switches that rotate through all options. That really concerns me on a translation to a limited space LCD screen? One thing that makes that so easy and fast is that a 12 key pad matches the pattern layout exactly to a Denon remote, so my fingers know which button does what without looking at anything. So that would be a question I have: How would the Harmony 670 handled the instant access to anyone of 12 toggle switches at the same time? And let’s add to that for example the number “5” on the keypad has 6 choices to toggle through? And I want the third choice?

Billybeatnik, I should have been a little more specific with my previous post when I said it would not turn on all items. I did not go into too much detail because it was too much detail. But because my 1) TV, 2) the HDMI, 3) the Viera Link, 4) and the DVR all have to be on for some time (10-15 seconds) to electronically get “sync-up” before the “next” attached device can be allowed to be turned on.

So in my particular situation the old Sony Remote I have does all the things you mention – such as all items “on” or “off” with just one button (included all the switching and set-up), with the exception of the one sequence which is turning on the TV, AVR, Sony DVR; therefore I have to use two buttons to turn that group “on”. The old Sony Remote does not allow for adequate “time-outs” for “off-ice-cold” equipment.

Technically, to turn on the TV, AVR, and Sony DVR it needs this: Turn on TV and wait say 5-10 seconds for the circuits to wake up, wait for Viera Link to wake up 1 second, Start HDMI hand shake routine (wait), wait for AVR to wake up (wait), AVR is woke up, so now send back the HDMI handshake (wait), TV says – Hey ok I am ready now…………….now after waiting person you can now turn on whatever else you want – in this case the Sony DVR. So in my case, I hit the one power button on the TV, and after it has done its song and dance for 10 seconds and all is ready, I then hit the one button (macro) that switches sources and turns on the DVR.

I can only assume remotes such as the Harmony 670, or the URC remotes can macro in 5, 10, or 15 second delays?

Since I just programmed the Sony Remote yesterday…………….I will need to give it a few days (weeks) for WAF. This becomes the most critical part of the test.

Last night I went to bed early, and she said “wait, wait, wait – what do I do to turn off the TV?” I said “just hit this red button here” – she said “where did all the remotes go?” I said “we are using one remote now – just make sure everything turns off before you leave the room.” She said “everything?” I said “yes everything” she said “what do you mean ‘everything’?” I said “just make sure all the lights on everything goes out”

This lasted a couple of more minutes – so I just left.

Well this morning “everything” was “off” – so I guessed it worked.

congrats houston... it appears as if you've gotten past the most important part of beta test, that being "others can use it"... :D

yup, the remotes you mention can have delays programmed... the problem with "long delays" is that the user needs to keep the remote pointed... THAT can lead to a lot of frustration...

I would think you would use the Harmony remote to turn on all of your equipment and not use the Viera Link. Trying to use both would most likely cause some conflicts. The most important delay would probably be the power-on delay for the TV. That is the delay needed before sending it other commands. The power-on delay for the TV would be set up initially to a default value for that model, but it can be customized later if you want to increase or decrease the delay.

You can assign the buttons you want to the Sound button. If you wanted, you could add the numbers from the AVR to the Sound button. Then if you wanted to use them, you could press the Sound button and select the number you want from the LCD screen. You can select the Next button to show the next screen. However, since there are so many numbers, you may want to temporarily go into the Device mode, select your AVR and then use the numbers on the remote.

I can't say for sure if the buttons will initially perform exactly the way the buttons on the AVR do, but if they do not, Harmony support should be able to modify it for you. When you initially set up your remote, go into Device mode, select your AVR and then check all of the command on the LCD screen. Although you may have to go through a menu on the AVR remote, there may be codes on the LCD screen that will directly access the mode you want. If so, you could then assign those codes to your Sound button.

I agree the WAF is a huge consideration. My wife only has to push a Watch Movie or Watch TV button to turn on everything, or push the Off button to turn off everything. If you have more than 3 activities, you can select the More Activities button and see the other activities in the LCD screen.

congrats houston... it appears as if you've gotten past the most important part of beta test, that being "others can use it"... :D

yup, the remotes you mention can have delays programmed... the problem with "long delays" is that the user needs to keep the remote pointed... THAT can lead to a lot of frustration...

This is very true. Even yesterday when programming and trying to make the delays long enough I was running into problems, because I would move.

So today it appears, the "two" button ice cold turn "on" for DVR may be the best approach reagardless of which remote is used.

I know I wont be giving up Viera Link. It does a hundred or more things automatically, and saves a ton of time. Just very glad the TV, Player, and AVR all work perfectly with it and take full advantage of it. Just wish the much older Sony DVR would too, but that is the way it goes, no biggie.

The only way to do pauses that long on the 8820 is to get a programming cable in order to load that capability into it, which is $30, pushing you into harmony territory price-wise. But that opens up a whole new world of possibilities. You could then put your macros on the device keys and do all your programming from your computer much faster and easier than doing it manually as you do today, as well as load upgrades for any future devices, so you're remote would never be obsolete (same as harmony). Even without the cable, you can still do all the "activities" harmony can do. They're just macros. And unlike harmony, you're not limited to just a few canned ones. I think the 8820 can handle about 30, assuming they're 15 steps each. In my case, the family just presses the TV button to watch TV, or presses the DVD button to watch a DVD, AUD to listen to music, etc., functionally no different than harmony. They are blissfully unaware of all the other complicated macros behind the scenes, and the goodies I've put on other buttons. (I can put my macros directly on the device keys using the cable. Without the cable, you'd have to put them on other buttons.)

I second the advice to ditch the viera link stuff. I seems to be more trouble than it's worth, having to point the remote for 10 sec or more. Just pretend it doesn't exist, if that's possible. And then take advantage of it after everything is up and running. Nearly all my macros (I have about 20) run about one second and turn on my whole system and do all the source switching without any delays at all. I just power up my slowest device first and come back to it at the end of the macro. If you can live with shorter pauses, foregoing the cable, you can just add in a series bogus commands, like pause in TV mode, but that could only get your 5 seconds or so.

I assume you use discrete power and input codes as well. That's a big help, since you don't have to deal with toggling things off when they're already on and vice versa, as well as not having to worry about starting a specific initial state. If you end up getting the 8820, I can likely post all those codes you need.

EDIT: Didn't see your viera link follow up before I posted. So never mind about the pause stuff.

I just taking pause for now to see all it all works out - WAF stuff.

So far its ok, she's only screamed 3 or 4 times, and I am still allowed in the house.

For sure I not giving up the Viera Link III (or whatever they call it). It just does to much without even thinking. For example: All equipment is 100% dead and ice cold. Just hit the "open tray" button and pop in movie (do not have to select the device, activity or anything). All the correct equipment is turned on and the BluRay starts playing is just 70 seconds................I have seen other BluRays take nearly 4 min for just the BluRay only to turn on and then nothing else even works! Player on , TV on, Denon on and 100% programmed (correct sources, sound fields, etc). I was just trying to do the same thing with the old Sony Box DVR.............but I had to break it up to "two" "on" buttons; because of all the delay issues.............and also learned I could not hold a remote that long; meaning that has workind out ok, and wife also understands she has to hit "two" buttons.

Even with or without VieraLink the TV still has to wait about 15 seconds after cold turn on, before it can switch circuits (sources). That is just a TV design thing really, not a viera link thing.

I was also trying to make a TV Hot Key for instant "pixel mapping" change (needed only to correct BAD NBC OTA)...........but the Panasonic menu screens will not allow that because sometimes choices are there and other times they are not depending on source feed............meaning a "pixel" map change button could end up changing Mpeg NR instead (which is not wanted).