I just purchased a Samsung LN46A650 and have done some searching on this forum and others about calibration for this tv and my question is this. I went ahead and purchased the calibration option through best buy when I purchased the tv. It ended up being $100 due to purchasing the tv and because we were unsure of buying it so they lowered the price. They are supposed to come out sometime next month. Is this a good choice or should I not allow best buy to do the calibration? Do they know what they are doing? I've only touched the surface on calibration so I wanted to see what someone else's opinion of the matter is? Thanks.

SNSGUY

They wont hurt your display, they just most likely wont get the best out of it.
If you said no they most likely will ask for the original cost be paid on the display pre-discount.

You may want to check out some of the other Best Buy calibration threads, like this one:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=995295

The answers will range from "Best Buy calibration will save the Earth from global warning" to "Best Buy calibration is no better than a trained monkey poking the TV with a banana".

Personally, I'm not gonna risk it since I've got my sets looking pretty good on my own with Avia II and DVE but...I have a friend that owns a sports bar with a total of 5 plasmas and he recently had BB come out and calibrate all of them. To my eyes I do notice some improvement (one of the panels was waaay off before) and they seemed to do an overall good job. I told him to ask about ISF certification but he forgot...so I don't know what kind of training they have.

for the millionth time, some of them are good, some are very young and still learning. They are all ISF certified, and use good equipment. They learn the basics at training, and beyond that is up to the individual and how hungry he is to learn. Like the NFL, some of them have been around since day one (for BB at least) and some are rookies (since the program has exploded in the last 6 months). Not all techs are at the same skill level, (which holds true for almost any profession) but your TV has good potential. Go for it, but see if you can talk to someone at your store and see who is the most experienced and request them. You may have to change your appt date depending on his availability. What city do you live in?

The ones I've heard of have ISF certification so even if they're not the best of the best I don't see how they're horrible unless ISF certification doesn't mean anything anymore.

for the millionth time, some of them are good, some are very young and still learning. They are all ISF certified, and use good equipment. They learn the basics at training, and beyond that is up to the individual and how hungry he is to learn. Like the NFL, some of them have been around since day one (for BB at least) and some are rookies (since the program has exploded in the last 6 months). Not all techs are at the same skill level, (which holds true for almost any profession) but your TV has good potential. Go for it, but see if you can talk to someone at your store and see who is the most experienced and request them. You may have to change your appt date depending on his availability. What city do you live in?

I live in Nashville, TN. I think I wil;l give them a call or drop in and ask for the best one they have. The Guy told me there were two of them for my area. It's set for Oct. They are supposed to give me a call at the end of this month. It seems like for $100 it's a good deal from what I am hearing. Thanks for responding everyone.

SNSGUY

Best Buy conducts "in-house" training, for the most part, conducted by people that we originally trained.
As mentioned, they can not do harm to a set, as would have been the potential in the "old days". Are they as skilled as someone who has been devoted to the practice for the last 12 years? That is for you to evaluate.

Please let it be said once more that while someone attends the ISF seminar (20 hours of instruction over a two day period) and successfully passes the 100 question exam, all the ISF is "certifying", in a defacto sense, is that the candidate has been in attendence and passed the exam. We do not lend any credulity to their skillset nor acumen. Realistically, how could we?
A great barometer to gauge the abilities of anyone in question is their résumé and their ability to produce referral information. Many seen contributing on this forum have built solid reputations for integrity, attention to detail, honesty, and dedication to the science.
The program at Best Buy was designed to create a wider awareness of the benefits of calibration, and make it more accessible to the public. However unlike a "raw" product such as a DVD player, for example, where there is a certain expectation of "repeatability", the same assurance cannot be made when the factors of human interpretation and educational adaptability are introduced. Consider it like officiating in sports. Those officials that rise to the pinnacle, let's say the NHL, would be expected to have and are held to higher standard, than the volunteer at the pond hockey game.

Please understand that Best Buy is doing a fine job of executing this program. It has proven successful, and the number of video displays that are left unequivocally with better image quality are more than ever anticipated when the ISF was founded 14 years ago. Can the fallability of humans render an occasional less than desired result? Of course, as in any profession. Naturally our affinity sours when we are on the unfortunate side of such an incident, however, Best Buy and all independent, reputable calibrators assure the client of their satisfaction.

I would not let anyone who works at Best Buy mow my lawn...I certainly would not let them amywhere near my equipment.

One of the Magnolia fools explained to me that front projectors cannot do 1080P because the light spreads out as soon as it leaves the lens..by the time it hits the screen it is no better than standard resolution.

Now...you think I am going to let anyone, who works for a company that hires idiots like this guy, in my house? Are you serious?

OH...the local BB has a "calibration display" The "after" calibrated unit is so poorly tweaked that it is virtually unwatchable. It must have been calibrated by blind monkeys.

Best Buy offers calibration for the reason it offers extended coverage....to pad their bottom line. According to Bus Week 80-90% of the profit made by BB is from coverage contracts!!!! This is why the teenybopper/stripper/thug wannabees push them on you. They are told "attachments" you gotta push "attachments".

You want a thug wannabee, future strip club worker in your home???

I live in Nashville, TN. I think I wil;l give them a call or drop in and ask for the best one they have. The Guy told me there were two of them for my area. It's set for Oct. They are supposed to give me a call at the end of this month. It seems like for $100 it's a good deal from what I am hearing. Thanks for responding everyone.

SNSGUY

Supposedly they do not do the ISF certification for $100 - its $300 iirc. I *believe* that have something that is just a general setup for $100.

I would not let anyone who works at Best Buy mow my lawn...I certainly would not let them amywhere near my equipment.

One of the Magnolia fools explained to me that front projectors cannot do 1080P because the light spreads out as soon as it leaves the lens..by the time it hits the screen it is no better than standard resolution.

Now...you think I am going to let anyone, who works for a company that hires idiots like this guy, in my house? Are you serious?

OH...the local BB has a "calibration display" The "after" calibrated unit is so poorly tweaked that it is virtually unwatchable. It must have been calibrated by blind monkeys.

Best Buy offers calibration for the reason it offers extended coverage....to pad their bottom line. According to Bus Week 80-90% of the profit made by BB is from coverage contracts!!!! This is why the teenybopper/stripper/thug wannabees push them on you. They are told "attachments" you gotta push "attachments".

You want a thug wannabee, future strip club worker in your home???

And consider the stories and telemarketing that D* and E* do - have you ever talked to their CSRs, or perhaps those at your local cable company. Have you heard the stories they tell customers?

I suppose you will never sub to cable or DBS because of anyone that would hire a fool like that........

Supposedly they do not do the ISF certification for $100 - its $300 iirc. I *believe* that have something that is just a general setup for $100.



And consider the stories and telemarketing that D* and E* do - have you ever talked to their CSRs, or perhaps those at your local cable company. Have you heard the stories they tell customers?

I suppose you will never sub to cable or DBS because of anyone that would hire a fool like that........

It is the full Calibration. It was normally $300 but because I bought the tv they would give it to me for $150 but I wasn't sure I wanted it so they dropped to $100. They also gave me the paper work that states all the thingd that I have read on this forum for a full calibration.

How did they bill for the Calibration. Was it billed at $100.
BB is supposed to charge the standard rate. I don't know how they're getting away with offering it for $100.
Good deal for you though for a full calibration. Make sure you get a tech that is certified vs one that was trained by an ISF tech.

I would not let anyone who works at Best Buy mow my lawn...I certainly would not let them amywhere near my equipment.

One of the Magnolia fools explained to me that front projectors cannot do 1080P because the light spreads out as soon as it leaves the lens..by the time it hits the screen it is no better than standard resolution.

Now...you think I am going to let anyone, who works for a company that hires idiots like this guy, in my house? Are you serious?

OH...the local BB has a "calibration display" The "after" calibrated unit is so poorly tweaked that it is virtually unwatchable. It must have been calibrated by blind monkeys.

Best Buy offers calibration for the reason it offers extended coverage....to pad their bottom line. According to Bus Week 80-90% of the profit made by BB is from coverage contracts!!!! This is why the teenybopper/stripper/thug wannabees push them on you. They are told "attachments" you gotta push "attachments".

You want a thug wannabee, future strip club worker in your home???

Good thing BB doesnt mow lawns, and BTW "thug wannabe"?? Where is this coming from? And the Magnolia guy that said that about 1080p projectors was an idiot. That is not the same guy coming out to calibrate anything, and is certainly not representation of the whole entire company. As far as the poorly tweaked TV in the store, every demo Ive personally done has to be redone every single time i visit a store because a customer or employee screws with it.

The calibration is $300, but there is a $200 discount on any install service if you spend $xxx.xx (I cant remember the exact amount). It is a promo called "HD advantage".


snsguy, I dont personally know the Nashville guys, but try to go with the more experienced of the two, if possible.

And consider the stories and telemarketing that D* and E* do - have you ever talked to their CSRs, or perhaps those at your local cable company. Have you heard the stories they tell customers?

I suppose you will never sub to cable or DBS because of anyone that would hire a fool like that........

haha good point. I love showing up to a customers home and seeing the HD cable box connected to the TV via coax. Happens at least 2-3 times/week

BB is supposed to charge the standard rate. I don't know how they're getting away with offering it for $100.


I think BB is subsidizing calibrations for the time being, to build that "techie friend" image among its customer base, thus differentiating themselves from web retailers that they can't compete on price with.

BTW, I worked at BB for a summer. I don't know how I resisted the lure of the gangsta lifestyle, or whether I just don't look good enough in a g-string to work the pole, but I ended up a successful EE working in telecomm. Go figure.

Good thing BB doesnt mow lawns, and BTW "thug wannabe"?? Where is this coming from? And the Magnolia guy that said that about 1080p projectors was an idiot. That is not the same guy coming out to calibrate anything, and is certainly not representation of the whole entire company. As far as the poorly tweaked TV in the store, every demo Ive personally done has to be redone every single time i visit a store because a customer or employee screws with it.

The calibration is $300, but there is a $200 discount on any install service if you spend $xxx.xx (I cant remember the exact amount). It is a promo called "HD advantage".


snsguy, I dont personally know the Nashville guys, but try to go with the more experienced of the two, if possible.


I think I'm going to call and ask them a few questions about the guy who is doing the calibration and see if one is more qualified then the other. It's amazing who people in a forum can either be really helpful and give you useless information that's more about ranting then helping. Thank you to those who are helping, I really appreciate it.

Support your local brick and mortar retailer, they will tell you everything you need to know about calibration.

wow i dont know why anyone has mention and ppl keep talking about just using the dve dvds but a true calibration is done through the service menu. which most of us can't access without a combination of codes and if you even some how access it and screw with it you really mess up the tv. yes the dvd does make the picture better but the calibration make it even better. the other thing no mention is the 45% or more energy savings said from isf....maybe its not a big deal but reducing the energy of the tv will extending the life of it; so that is a big deal for me if i spend that kind of money on a tv. its really up to you but shopping around i know that they are the cheapest place to buy a calibration and the device is said to cost 7500-10000....i really don't think if calibrations are all gimmicks then isf wouldnt have said anything about it. also if you look at hometheater mags you notice everytime they review a tv there is a color chart 1 noncalibrate and 1 calibrate so ask yourself why would these guys do it?

I was in the ISF seminar that was held here in Las Vegas in January of 2007, and I believe that was the first or one of the first seminars to include BB employee's. They didn't impress me as being ahead of the class or behind it, they all seemed interested in the science, and enthusiastic about the calibration process.

That being said, I went into a BB in SoCal that had a Magnolia department, and I couldn't find anyone that could point me to a calibration disc, (for a friend). And the local BB is full of gamers and texters.

It makes sense that unless they run every "calibrator" through the ISF program, that quality is going to suffer. And you also have to ask yourself the old "get what you pay for question". With gas at over $4 per gallon, and the proper test gear costing several thousand dollars, how long is it going to take them to make a profit at $100 per?

FWIW, I would either get the settings from one of these threads here, or pull the trigger and get it done right. Either is better than the factory pre-sets, but for me, a BB calibration is most likely a oxymoron.

wow i dont know why anyone has mention and ppl keep talking about just using the dve dvds but a true calibration is done through the service menu. which most of us can't access without a combination of codes and if you even some how access it and screw with it you really mess up the tv. yes the dvd does make the picture better but the calibration make it even better. the other thing no mention is the 45% or more energy savings said from isf....maybe its not a big deal but reducing the energy of the tv will extending the life of it; so that is a big deal for me if i spend that kind of money on a tv. its really up to you but shopping around i know that they are the cheapest place to buy a calibration and the device is said to cost 7500-10000....i really don't think if calibrations are all gimmicks then isf wouldnt have said anything about it. also if you look at hometheater mags you notice everytime they review a tv there is a color chart 1 noncalibrate and 1 calibrate so ask yourself why would these guys do it?

The reason people here mention calibration DVDs is because many folks who find their way to this area are looking for ways to improve their displays without spending too much money. A lot of them are new to HT and know it can be better but don't want to sink additional money into calibration services that they may not understand. For them, calibration DVDs are a good first step. Even with a professionally-calibrated display, these discs are handy to do spot checks on things like grayscale, color decoding, brightness, etc. These things tend to drift over time and the discs can help you know when it's time for corrections. Note that no one here is saying that a cal DVD is "as good as" a real calibration.

Many times, people who've used calibration discs and see a difference are started along the path to a fully calibrated display, whether done by a professional, or they get the fire to do it themselves. They start wondering how much better it could be, and away they go!

Hmm, your points and writing style sure look like something I've seen in another thread. You don't happen to work at Best Buy, do ya? ;)

I have another problem. First off I need to say I really love the LN46A650. It has an awesome picture and great colors and contrast. The major problem I am running into is that settings I try seems to be either to dark or to bright or both. I can't seem to find a happy medium. Any suggestions?

SNSGUY

I have another problem. First off I need to say I really love the LN46A650. It has an awesome picture and great colors and contrast. The major problem I am running into is that settings I try seems to be either to dark or to bright or both. I can't seem to find a happy medium. Any suggestions?

SNSGUY
Your gamma is probably quite off and non-linear.

Greetings ...

Use a test disc then. DVE ... AVIA ... Monster ISF ... Get Gray ... all help out.

You will never get reference from cable or satellite. nothing to do there. Out of your hands.

Calibrate to DVD and use those settings on the cable and cross your fingers. That's it unless you have a signal generator ... and then you still cross your fingers.

Regards

wow i dont know why anyone has mention and ppl keep talking about just using the dve dvds but a true calibration is done through the service menu. which most of us can't access without a combination of codes and if you even some how access it and screw with it you really mess up the tv. yes the dvd does make the picture better but the calibration make it even better. the other thing no mention is the 45% or more energy savings said from isf....maybe its not a big deal but reducing the energy of the tv will extending the life of it; so that is a big deal for me if i spend that kind of money on a tv. its really up to you but shopping around i know that they are the cheapest place to buy a calibration and the device is said to cost 7500-10000....i really don't think if calibrations are all gimmicks then isf wouldnt have said anything about it. also if you look at hometheater mags you notice everytime they review a tv there is a color chart 1 noncalibrate and 1 calibrate so ask yourself why would these guys do it?
$10,000 equipment required for calibration, 45% power savings... What the hell have you been smokin?

Greetings

Smoking the stuff that makes you sign up under a new name every 2 days.

regards

Your gamma is probably quite off and non-linear.

I'm new at this I know about the gamma setting just not sure what it does and what do you mean by non-linear?

SNSGUY

Your gamma is probably quite off and non-linear.

Gamma is inherently non-linear. Certainly his gamma may be off, but when it is correct it will not be linear. Gamma is often displayed in a relative manner so that when it tracks the proper curve the result is a straight line, but the response is not itself linear, other than in the lower region of the 709 standard.

Ok, i know that calibrated LCD monitors for computers for example needs to be recalibrated every month or so.

If you pay someone to calibrate your tv via service menu, wouldnt the calibration need to be recalibrated in a year's time?

Gamma is inherently non-linear. Certainly his gamma may be off, but when it is correct it will not be linear. Gamma is often displayed in a relative manner so that when it tracks the proper curve the result is a straight line, but the response is not itself linear, other than in the lower region of the 709 standard.
You're correct, i meant that if the gamma were to be mapped, it more than likely is not linear (or more so the graph would not be), i didn't mean that the response would be linear.

Greetings

Like cars go out of tuning ... calibrated TVs will also drift as they age. Wear and tear. People change out equipment ... and that can also affect the calibration. Most calibrators offer discounted touch up services. Worth asking about.

regards

In your honest opinion, how does a calibration done by a professional in your home compare to using a calibration disk form say AVIA or Digital Audio Essentials?

OR perhaps Spydertv (the digital calibration hardware using a laptop)?

In your honest opinion, how does a calibration done by a professional in your home compare to using a calibration disk form say AVIA or Digital Audio Essentials?

OR perhaps Spydertv (the digital calibration hardware using a laptop)?


They are apples and oranges. For one thing, that professional is likely going to bring experience and equipment to the party that the owner probably doesn't have. While brightness and color/tint adjustments can be done by eye using the patterns on the test discs you mention, other items like grayscale and gamma adjustment as well as aligning color decoders and color management systems really can't. Front and rear projection CRT displays also usually benefit from optics cleaning, precision focusing, and geometry and convergence work.

From what I've read on HT forums, the SpyderTV doesn't actually calibrate your set. Instead, it does things like measuring your set's grayscale but then only telling you which color temperature setting on your display is closest to D65, not how to get there if you're way off. It guides you to "correct" settings for things like brightness and contrast, but reading users' comments online indicates that the settings it recommends are too high. It's a lot of money for a package that leaves something to be desired.

Ah ok. Thanks!

So it looks like Getgray seems to be popular around here. I'm thinking of getting it. I noticed some people talking about having to purchase color filters through somewhere else to use with the disc. Is that soemthing I will have to get also or is the dvd it for Samsung LN46A650? Is it more worth it just to go with DVD and cancel the IN Home Calibrations service by BB considering the tv will change over time. I also have read that if I enter the service menu that it will void the warranty through Samsung on the tv. Is this true? Thanks

SNSGUY

Greetings

Do you not get tune ups for your car because you have to get them again down the road?

If you are up for it ... learning to do it yourself is a journey worth taking. I did it ... and all the other top tier calibrators did it too.

This is not rocket science.

Regards

In your honest opinion, how does a calibration done by a professional in your home compare to using a calibration disk form say AVIA or Digital Audio Essentials?

OR perhaps Spydertv (the digital calibration hardware using a laptop)?

We honestly couldn't afford buying anything like the Spyder tv right now or even an in home calibration by someone else besides Best Buy. We used the three years no intreest because frankly it was the only way we could afford at this time to get the tv we wanted. I have decided to go ahead and stick with the calibration by best buy. I went in and asked the same guy who sold us the tv some questions about the guy who does and what they dao and if the guy is certified by isf by going through the training himself. The answer was yes and I made sure that out of the two they had I go the on who has been doing it for a while and the best one they have. I actually asked a couple of associates and they all said the same guy. I just need to wait a little longer to get it done because he is so busy. I'd rather wait then get someone who isn't good at what they do. I would like to learn more about it so eventually I could always do it for myself and maybe friends and family. Just right now we don't have the extra cash for it.

SNSGUY

We honestly couldn't afford buying anything like the Spyder tv right now or even an in home calibration by someone else besides Best Buy. We used the three years no intreest because frankly it was the only way we could afford at this time to get the tv we wanted. I have decided to go ahead and stick with the calibration by best buy. I went in and asked the same guy who sold us the tv some questions about the guy who does and what they dao and if the guy is certified by isf by going through the training himself. The answer was yes and I made sure that out of the two they had I go the on who has been doing it for a while and the best one they have. I actually asked a couple of associates and they all said the same guy. I just need to wait a little longer to get it done because he is so busy. I'd rather wait then get someone who isn't good at what they do. I would like to learn more about it so eventually I could always do it for myself and maybe friends and family. Just right now we don't have the extra cash for it.

SNSGUY

In most cases, I would suggest that a lower priced TV Calibrated has the potential to perform better than a higher priced non-calibrated HDTV.

A Ford can beat a Porsche if the Porsche is not tuned up properly.

In most cases, I would suggest that a lower priced TV Calibrated has the potential to perform better than a higher priced non-calibrated HDTV.

A Ford can beat a Porsche if the Porsche is not tuned up properly.


Nice attempt at a valid analogy. :rolleyes:

In most cases, I would suggest that a lower priced TV Calibrated has the potential to perform better than a higher priced non-calibrated HDTV.

A Ford can beat a Porsche if the Porsche is not tuned up properly.

But if I had a smaller tv then I wouldn't have a big one which then I wouldn't be able to see nose hairs. That observation is what I am going on. I am going for the calibration just because I think the tv needs it and I go a really good deal. ended up paying $1964 including tax at my local best buy and got the calibration for $150. It's not $100 like I though but when I went in and complained they had over charged me for the tv because it was cheaper online they gave me $150 back off of the tv. So all is good. Thanks for everyone's insight. I do love the tv I'm just still trying to get the settings and such just right for our living room. Thanks Again.

SNSGUY

I just got my Sony KDL-52W4100 calibrated by Best Buy. He used the Sencore Generator and Sencore sensor. My Sony does not have a service menu, so he adjusted the white balance in the advance settings in my television which have R-gain, R-Bias, etc. He did a good job, and the tv looks great. I got the service for $150, because I bought the tv during a promotion they were having. Phil(calibrator from Best Buy) told me he was training in Minnesota. He is ISF certified. This is the first time I have had someone calibrate my tv professionally, so I cannot compare. In my opinion, he did a very good job and I am very satisfied.

Thanks,
Ken

I just got my Sony KDL-52W4100 calibrated by Best Buy. He used the Sencore Generator and Sencore sensor. My Sony does not have a service menu, so he adjusted the white balance in the advance settings in my television which have R-gain, R-Bias, etc.



Did he put a probe on your screen or did he set up a device on a tripod in front of the screen?


He may have done what you consider a great job - and if he was able to adjust EVERYTHING without entering the Service Menu, more power to him, but if he told you that your TV DOES NOT HAVE A SERVICE MENU, he doesn't know Jack about your TV.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/696/kdl52w4100cm2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:) This is funny. I am sure the Best Buy idiot had no clue how to get to the service menu.

The calibration comparisons at the local Best Buys are so bad that I suspected some anti-BB customer screwed around with them. The BB drone was confident that this is what a calibrated panel looked like. Apparently BB calibration destroys the PQ of your Plasma or LCD.

I don't know how long this genius was in your home but I would do a quick look-see around the house to make sure nothing is missing.

Oh wow, I feel like I have been fooled.:eek: Guys thanks for pointing this out. He attached the sensor directly to the screen and not on a tripod. Here are my settings after he calibrated the screen:

Power saving: off
Light Sensor : on

Picture Adjustments
Picture mode: Custom
Backlight: 8
Picture: 88
Brightness: 51
Color: 56
Hue: 0
Color Temp: Warm 2
Sharpness: 1

Advanced Settings
White Balance
R-Gain: -2
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: -11
R-Bias: 1
G-Bias:0
B-Bias:-2

All other settings were set to Sony's Default
I figured about all televisions have a service menu. I just got my eye-one in today. BeachComber, do you have anymore information about navigating through the service menu and what sections are used for calibration.
Thanks,
Ken

Oh wow, I feel like I have been fooled.:eek: Guys thanks for pointing this out. He attached the sensor directly to the screen and not on a tripod. Here are my settings after he calibrated the screen:

Power saving: off
Light Sensor : on

Picture Adjustments
Picture mode: Custom
Backlight: 8
Picture: 88
Brightness: 51
Color: 56
Hue: 0
Color Temp: Warm 2
Sharpness: 1

Advanced Settings
White Balance
R-Gain: -2
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: -11
R-Bias: 1
G-Bias:0
B-Bias:-2

All other settings were set to Sony's Default
I figured about all televisions have a service menu. I just got my eye-one in today. BeachComber, do you have anymore information about navigating through the service menu and what sections are used for calibration.
Thanks,
Ken

Not going into the Service Menu is not neccesarily bad, as I tried to indicate in my earlier post. First rule of thumb is if you do not have to go into the Service Menu, DONT!

However, to state that the set does NOT have a Service Menu is wrong and fwiw, anyone that is spending money for ISF Calibration most likely would search the web and end up on avs or other sites only to find out that yes, there is a Service Menu.

Bottom line, the reason most ISF techs would most likely do the setting in the Service Menu is that they could then change the defaults to the ISF adjusted settings.

As it sits now, a 3 year old could get ahold of the remote and screw up your ISF settings and unless you had written them down, you would have been hosed.

Oh wow, I feel like I have been fooled.:eek: Guys thanks for pointing this out. He attached the sensor directly to the screen and not on a tripod. Here are my settings after he calibrated the screen:

Power saving: off
Light Sensor : on

Picture Adjustments
Picture mode: Custom
Backlight: 8
Picture: 88
Brightness: 51
Color: 56
Hue: 0
Color Temp: Warm 2
Sharpness: 1

Advanced Settings
White Balance
R-Gain: -2
G-Gain: 0
B-Gain: -11
R-Bias: 1
G-Bias:0
B-Bias:-2

All other settings were set to Sony's Default
I figured about all televisions have a service menu. I just got my eye-one in today. BeachComber, do you have anymore information about navigating through the service menu and what sections are used for calibration.
Thanks,
Ken

Don't feel bad about the level of service you got. Even though he made the weird comments about the service menu, you really didn't get ripped off. For $150 he used a probe to set your grayscale (RGB gains and bias), and all the other settings seem to be in the right ballpark. Assuming he did a good job, your picture is maybe 95% of what it could be. Any changed in the service menu might improve contrast and gamma, and maybe reign in some of the color. It really depends on your TV.

As far as the service menu, every vendor is different, and even different TVs by the same vendor can be quite different. You should check individual product threads for more details on your specific TV.

Nice attempt at a valid analogy. :rolleyes:How about a GT500 or Ford GT would beat a Boxster...or Cayenne?:D

For the most part today the service menu is unnecessary to get the best picture. I would not complain if someone did not use it. As long as they give you a list of the settings which should be the case whether the service mode is used or not. These settings are important either way. In the past most manufacturers hid the key adjustments in the service mode. This was the reason it was used to calibrate the display. Today many are placing these same controls in the user menu so service mode access and unnecessary.

I am not saying BB is going to do a stellar job, but criticizing for not using the service mode in all cases is not valid. In fact I have seen more bad calibrations from using the service mode incorrectly than from using correctly. The memory structure is frequenty very complex in Sony displays and unless you understand it you can make a mess.

I asked him when he was calibrating, why he did not go into the service menu. That’s when he said that these models TV does not have a service menu, the settings that are normally hidden are now in the advanced settings on this model TV. The man was very polite and focused. I asked if he wanted to sit down on a chair and use one of my TV tray stands for his laptop. He politely declined and sat on the floor to do the calibration. In my opinion, the service that he did for $150 was a good price. Now would I pay $300 for the same service, probably not? I have seen more extensive calibration screens done on my old (7 years ago) CRT based rear projection Panasonic when a green color gun was replaced. Now granted, I know that CRT based TVs need a lot of calibration for keystone, geometry, over scan, etc. He did not check for geometry, or adjust the Color management system (if it has one) on my TV. I have the DVE blue Ray DVD and before he came over I checked for some of these things. The geometry and over scan dead on as an LCD should be. My TV has some red push and this was not corrected during the calibration. I did not pursue this, because he told me there was no service menu. He gave me a copy of the settings and told me to put them in a safe place, just in case. I got this service because it was ½ off, convenient during the time of purchase, and my curiosity of what Best Buy can do. My question is what is included on an ISF calibration for other people such as me know what to expect when such a service is done?

Thanks,
Ken

Why would he not compensate for the Red Push?

Bottom line is I personally do not care for any of the probes that attach to the front of TV as they do not have the proper low light sensitivity you need when adjusting lower light levels. On many sets if you adjust to what those types of meters tells you on the lower settings, the grey goes red, which sounds like it might be the case on your set, even though you stated you were aware of it prior to calibration.

My TV has some red push and this was not corrected during the calibration. I did not pursue this, because he told me there was no service menu.

Contact probes are not ideally corrolated in their filter sets for adjusting CMS on display types other than direct view CRT (and with many limitations on RPTV CRTs).
Even if he tried to adjust Red for the correct x-y coordinates, he would have been in no-man's land.
As it has been said on this forum a trillion times: Color Decoder adjustments are not made with Grayscale parameters.

Why would he not compensate for the Red Push?

I don't know the specific model, and I haven't worked with that many Sony's, but not everything can be adjusted even if you have a service menu. Very often you have stuff like red push or green push happening, without any way to adjust it. Sometimes you can adjust these things on analog inputs, but not on HDMI inputs. In those cases all you can do is calibrate whatever is available as closely as you can, and leave it at that. At least some of the Sony's I've worked with did have a service menu, but had no adjustments there that weren't available in the user menu.

Greetings

Expectations under an ISF banner ...

User controls ... and grayscale.

Stuff like CMS and color decoder are lightly touched on in class and students are told it falls into the advanced stuff. (Hence not included and not to be expected either.) This is not to say that a calibrator won't do it or can't do it. The good ones train themselves the more advanced stuff and also offer it. Onus is still on you to figure out who is offering what and who goes the extra mile.

If you want CMS for sure where applicable ... then you'd better go search for a THX video calibrator instead because that is taught ... and you can be sure that the calibrator will have the right equipment for the job. (It's required and they can't get away with not having the right gear if they want the video certification.)

Can anyone re-engineer a TV if the controls are not available ...? Expecting that would be unrealistic.

Regards

Contact probes are not ideally corrolated in their filter sets for adjusting CMS on display types other than direct view CRT (and with many limitations on RPTV CRTs).
Even if he tried to adjust Red for the correct x-y coordinates, he would have been in no-man's land.
As it has been said on this forum a trillion times: Color Decoder adjustments are not made with Grayscale parameters.

I understand that completely. However, that doesn't seem to stop most with probes from trying it :rolleyes:

I don't know the specific model, and I haven't worked with that many Sony's, but not everything can be adjusted even if you have a service menu. Very often you have stuff like red push or green push happening, without any way to adjust it. Sometimes you can adjust these things on analog inputs, but not on HDMI inputs. In those cases all you can do is calibrate whatever is available as closely as you can, and leave it at that. At least some of the Sony's I've worked with did have a service menu, but had no adjustments there that weren't available in the user menu.

The RYR setting in the Service Menu can usually help the Red Push issue on Sonys.

Some displays service graysale settings are universal and transpose over to all the signals which is no good. Then again user advanced settings will usually hold different numbers for different signals.

The RYR setting in the Service Menu can usually help the Red Push issue on Sonys.

Such changes are specific to certain models. Do not assume that it works on most Sonys. Some of the more recent sets don't have any service settings at all that can be changed.

Just F.Y.I.

I work for BestBuy now after years with Tweeter...we do indeed have tech's that are ISF certified. As far as tech's who were taught by the guy who was taught by the guy who was actually certified goes....this only happens on the rare occurence during a busy time of year when a scheduled installation is bumped for one reason or another or in the very rare occurance of the certified tech calling in sick. Customer DOES HAVE the option to reschedule or to use "fill-in" tech.

I must say that the displays, purely based on cost, that our stores have aren't the greatest (two low level panasonic plasmas etc). But the values of having a tv calibrated reguardless are well worth the money spent. When you look at the prices for various companies online and elsewhere (circuit city does not do ISF calibrations) for a flat panel (plasma or LCD) we are priced very competitively! We also just started a new procedure for protection plans which include a dramitically discounted isf calibration.

I know the views on calibrations vary, but being the owner of 2 pioneer pro-5010hd's which have been calibrated to what I watch, when I watch it and even what the lighting conditions are in my room (day and night mode). They even calibrated the tv so it says "Hello Tim" when I power it on. How cool is that?

Anyways I am a home theater supervisor in the Boston Massachusetts area so please feel free to e-mail me with any questions regarding our HT products or services!

Timothy.johnson4@bestbuy.com

Thanks!

For a description of my experience with Best Buy calibration service please see this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14797742&posted=1#post14797742

Just F.Y.I.

I work for BestBuy now after years with Tweeter...we do indeed have tech's that are ISF certified. As far as tech's who were taught by the guy who was taught by the guy who was actually certified goes....this only happens on the rare occurence during a busy time of year when a scheduled installation is bumped for one reason or another or in the very rare occurance of the certified tech calling in sick. Customer DOES HAVE the option to reschedule or to use "fill-in" tech.

I must say that the displays, purely based on cost, that our stores have aren't the greatest (two low level panasonic plasmas etc). But the values of having a tv calibrated reguardless are well worth the money spent. When you look at the prices for various companies online and elsewhere (circuit city does not do ISF calibrations) for a flat panel (plasma or LCD) we are priced very competitively! We also just started a new procedure for protection plans which include a dramitically discounted isf calibration.

I know the views on calibrations vary, but being the owner of 2 pioneer pro-5010hd's which have been calibrated to what I watch, when I watch it and even what the lighting conditions are in my room (day and night mode). They even calibrated the tv so it says "Hello Tim" when I power it on. How cool is that?

Anyways I am a home theater supervisor in the Boston Massachusetts area so please feel free to e-mail me with any questions regarding our HT products or services!

Timothy.johnson4@bestbuy.com

Thanks!

What does BB use to calibrate?

Greetings

Sencore gear ... Chroma 5 probe equivalent.

regards