I have a Lumagen HDP connected to my RS1

I've had nothing but problems outputting 1080P/24 - to the point where it is unusable in that mode (I've logged the issue at the Lumagen Forum and they are apparently looking into it). In the meantime, I want to understand why I keep reading that 1080i and 1080P/24 are the same, or that "I'm not losing anything"?

I have 2 Cableboxes outputting 1080i
My Blu-ray player (Panny BD-30) outputs 1080i in SD-DVD mode
XBox 360 set to 1080i

Please forgive my ignorance on this issue, but my question is this:

When playing a BR disc that is 1080P/24, what is happening inside the Lumagen if it is set to output 1080i? Is it receiving 1080P/24 from the BD-30, converting it to 1080i, then sending 1080i to the RS1? How am I not losing anything in this process?

If I can't use 1080P/24 output on the HDP, is 1080i output the next best alternative?

Any suggestions on how to best configure the HDP until they (finally) fix the 1080P/24 output issues would be greatly appreciated!!

I have a Lumagen HDP connected to my RS1

I've had nothing but problems outputting 1080P/24 - to the point where it is unusable in that mode (I've logged the issue at the Lumagen Forum and they are apparently looking into it). In the meantime, I want to understand why I keep reading that 1080i and 1080P/24 are the same, or that "I'm not losing anything"?

I have 2 Cableboxes outputting 1080i
My Blu-ray player (Panny BD-30) outputs 1080i in SD-DVD mode
XBox 360 set to 1080i

Please forgive my ignorance on this issue, but my question is this:

When playing a BR disc that is 1080P/24, what is happening inside the Lumagen if it is set to output 1080i? Is it receiving 1080P/24 from the BD-30, converting it to 1080i, then sending 1080i to the RS1? How am I not losing anything in this process?

If I can't use 1080P/24 output on the HDP, is 1080i output the next best alternative?

Any suggestions on how to best configure the HDP until they (finally) fix the 1080P/24 output issues would be greatly appreciated!!

Not sure why you have a problem. MY HDQ works great set to 1080p/24 out. Works with a Bluray HTPC, Toshiba XA2, older PC set to 1080p/24 with an Nvidia 6600GT card and my HR20 directV DVR. You must use forced film mode deinterlacing while set to 1080p/24 out using a 1080i/60 input. I don't think 720p/60 input works correctly while set to 1080p/24 out so stay away from 720p input to the HDP.

There appears to be a lot of confusion about the differences between 1080i60, 1080p24 and 1080p60 and it is understandable because there are very few good technical explanations and a lot of marketing hype out there.

Restricting this to be strictly about films and broadcast video cameras, excluding video games, digicam outputs, and other exceptions. Speaking only about films and broadcast video.

My take on the subject, there are basic concepts involved here:

"Content" - what the film/video really "is".
"Storage" - what format the video is being stored as.
"Transmit" - what format the video is being transmitted between devices as.
"Display" - how the video is being displayed.

Content - 1080p60 does not exist (see my note above - 1080p60 does exist, but for other things, not for film or video). There are only two formats: 24p and 60i. Films are 24p, that is their core nature. Video camera outputs are 60i.

Storage - the internal storage details of the playback device - a film might be stored as 1080i60 or 1080p24. Video is stored as 1080i60.

Transmit - The output format of the source device. This is the phase that most people are referring to when they talk about 1080i60, 1080p24, and 1080p60. This is the format that the video is being exchanged between devices as.

Display - what the display is actually doing with the feed that it received from the source.

On the "I'm not losing anything". Conversions from 1080p24 to 1080i60 and from 1080i60 back to 1080p24 can be done without any loss. 1080i60 does not have less resolution than 1080p24. In the context of a source device output, they are just transmission formats. One is not better or worse than the other. One does not inherently have a loss or gain over the other, regardless of the Content format.

Transmission phase format pluses if all equipment is perfect:
1080i60 - ubiquitous, almost everything out there supports this. Lossless transmission of film and video.

1080p24 - "pure" output from source if content is 24p and is stored at 24p.

The real world:
Never seen a perfect piece of video gear. All of them have quirks - things that work very well, and things that are "broken", both on the source side, and the display side. The 1080i60 output might be broken or sub-optimal on a source device. 1080i60 de-interlacing might be broken or sub-optimal on a display device. 1080i60 output might be great on a source and great on a display (equivalent of 1080p24 transmission for films) and have other significant benefits. 1080p24 source output might be broken or sub-optimal. 1080p24 display input might be broken or sub-optimal. 1080p24 might be perfect on a source and on the display.

Downside to 1080p24 output: "Forced" 24p output might work well for films, but video or mixed content (film with video overlay) will be messed up. You can't losslessly convert 60i video to p24 - it looks bad.

1080p24 is "pure". I find this one laughable. Yes, a disk might be perfectly mastered and have its content stored as 24p. But sources and displays are black boxes. Who knows what sort of processing is going on inside a source set for 24p output? Answer: only the manufacturer, and they aren't going to tell anyone. Same is true with displays, who knows what they are really doing with inputs. Given the number of issues with ALL formats, ALL sources, and ALL displays (again, never seen a single device that was perfect), it all boils down to "pick your poison".

There are good reasons to choose 1080i60 output for some mixes of equipment. There are good reasons to choose 1080p24 output for some mixes of equipment.

Add in a video processor and what do you get? One more device in the chain with quirks. Video processors can be of great benefit, but they add complexity.

When playing a BR disc that is 1080P/24, what is happening inside the Lumagen if it is set to output 1080i? Is it receiving 1080P/24 from the BD-30, converting it to 1080i, then sending 1080i to the RS1? How am I not losing anything in this process?

If I can't use 1080P/24 output on the HDP, is 1080i output the next best alternative?



You should be able to "pass thru" 1080p24 through the Lumagen. That's what I'd do.

Not sure why you have a problem. MY HDQ works great set to 1080p/24 out. Works with a Bluray HTPC, Toshiba XA2, older PC set to 1080p/24 with an Nvidia 6600GT card and my HR20 directV DVR. You must use forced film mode deinterlacing while set to 1080p/24 out using a 1080i/60 input. I don't think 720p/60 input works correctly while set to 1080p/24 out so stay away from 720p input to the HDP.Thanks Ronomy. I hadn't tried to force "Film" mode. Not sure if I missed it somewhere on the Lumagen forum or in the docs, but it definitely was an improvement. I need to do some more testing, but I think that may have solved the problem for 1080P/24 output. Thank you! Now I guess the question is whether I need it, which goes to usual's reply...

There are good reasons to choose 1080i60 output for some mixes of equipment. There are good reasons to choose 1080p24 output for some mixes of equipment.

Add in a video processor and what do you get? One more device in the chain with quirks. Video processors can be of great benefit, but they add complexity.Usual, thanks for this - it definitely helps. Can you point me to some documentation that explains why there is no conversion loss from 1080p/24 -> 1080i/60 -> 1080p/24? What I'm not clear on is why 1080i/60 -> 1080p/24 is "lossy", but the change from 1080p/24 -> 60i -> 24p is not (referencing your example of video overlay)? How does judder play into this? Doesn't this force 3:2 pulldown on film sources if I'm using 1080i/60?

So I guess I have to ask myself why I'm trying so hard to get 1080p/24 output from the Lumagen. I had always thought it would be best to try and match the native resolution of the projector and prevent any conversions there since the Lumagen should - theoretically - be better at it. But maybe I should just set the Lumagen to 1080i/60 output and be done with it since all my sources other than BRay are 1080i/60. And from your comments, it seems I'm not losing anything if the Lumagen takes 1080p/24 converts to 1080i/60 then sends to the RS1 (which takes it back to 1080p/24).

You should be able to "pass thru" 1080p24 through the Lumagen. That's what I'd do.I don't think this is possible unless the input resolution matches the output resolution, but I could be wrong.

Not to burst your bubble w/regards to the older Lumagen VP but the Gennum VXP in the RS1 should do a better job deinterlacing 1080i both film and video. You are probably better off just buying a switcher and allowing the RS1 to deinterlace. In that case send 1080p24 to the RS1 for BD movies and 1080i for everything else from the player.

It might be a worthwhile investment for you to pick up both the SD and HD versions of the HQV test disc and see for yourself.

I think you have been confused because folk have been ting abotu 1080i giving the same results on the Lumagen as 1080p24 when you are feeding that in to the scaler.....not on the outpu of it

ie the scaler will be able to extract the 24p part from the 60i part of film source material in such a way that it will be indistinguishable to sending p24 in. This has been verified by many folk. Also re VXP. Sending your film source material direct to your projector and bypassing the scaler will likely not actually give you a better image quality at all. In fact, if you make use of the scalers calibration tools you will undoubtedly get a more accurate image if you send the signal though it.

Not to burst your bubble w/regards to the older Lumagen VP but the Gennum VXP in the RS1 should do a better job deinterlacing 1080i both film and video. You are probably better off just buying a switcher and allowing the RS1 to deinterlace. In that case send 1080p24 to the RS1 for BD movies and 1080i for everything else from the player.

It might be a worthwhile investment for you to pick up both the SD and HD versions of the HQV test disc and see for yourself.No bubble to burst. I'm just looking for the best method to get from the source through the HDP and onto the screen. The only reason I have the HDP is to get the vertical stretch I need for my anamorphic lens. Otherwise, I wouldn't use it at all. Unfortunately there is nothing on the market that does the vertical stretch but just passes through the signal unmolested - at least not that I'm aware of. I don't want all the other bells and whistles, just the stretch.

I can see sending 1080i in and out from my Xbox, Cableboxes and SD-DVD, my only question is how to handle 1080p/24 inputs from Bluray.

I think you have been confused because folk have been ting abotu 1080i giving the same results on the Lumagen as 1080p24 when you are feeding that in to the scaler.....not on the outpu of it

ie the scaler will be able to extract the 24p part from the 60i part of film source material in such a way that it will be indistinguishable to sending p24 in. This has been verified by many folk. Also re VXP. Sending your film source material direct to your projector and bypassing the scaler will likely not actually give you a better image quality at all. In fact, if you make use of the scalers calibration tools you will undoubtedly get a more accurate image if you send the signal though it.Thanks Gordon, I think I understand on the input side, but I`m still confused on the output side. Here is what I think are the 2 scenarios...

Scenario 1 - Set HDP to 60i output:
Cablebox (1080i/60 out) -> HDP (no conversion, 1080i/60 out) - RS1 (1080p/24 internal conversion)
SD-DVD (1080i/60 out) -> HDP (no conversion, 1080i/60 out) - RS1 (1080p/24 internal conversion)
BR Disc (1080p/24 out) -> HDP (convert to 1080i/60 out) - RS1 (1080p/24 internal conversion)

Scenario 2: - Set HDP to 24p output
Cablebox (1080i/60 out) -> HDP (internal conversion, 1080p/24 out) - RS1 (no conversion - native rez)
SD-DVD (1080i/60 out) -> HDP (internal conversion, 1080p/24 out) - RS1 (no conversion - native rez)
BR Disc (1080p/24 out) -> HDP (no conversion, 1080p/24 out) - RS1 (no conversion - native rez)

First off, is the above correct?
If it is, then really what I want to know is what I`m losing in Scenario 1 for BR discs?

1080i60 / 1080p24 / 1080p60 are NOT different resolutions. The are all exactly the same resolution 1920x1080.

Passthrough on the Lumagens turns off scaling, not de-interlacing. PASS = ON works correctly with 1080i60 input to Lumagen and 1080p24 (or p48) output from Lumagen. This is not of any use to you, because you need to scale the image (vertical stretch).

How can 1080p24 to 1080i60 to 1080p24 work? example: (might want to read the whole article from page 1)
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/features/technical-topics/high-definition-1080p-tv-why-you-should-be-concerned_3.html

Note that the above link answers some questions, and not others, and makes assumptions on the type of display. It was written for flat panels owners before 24p multiple display was a feature of the panels.

The short version is: Lumagen does the right thing on p24 to i60 conversion (both ways), so no worries about it as a device. The question is, what does the RS1 do with a 1080i60 input? Perfect 1080p24 de-interlacing and display at 24p multiples? I don't know. If it does "good" with 1080i60, then there is no downside to 1080i60 or 1080p24 into the Lumagen and 1080i60 out to the PJ.

If the PJ does it right, I would use 1080i60, because using 1080p24 forced output from the lumagen for the cable box input is going to screw up video material.

No I think it's not right.
I have no information that the rs1 does frc to 24 hz or multiples thereof for a 60Hz input.

In scenario1 you would want sd to be 480i60 to scaler then out at 1080p24

for BD my understanding of how your pj works is that the 1080i60 from the HDP would be converted to 1080P60 in the projector and you'd still have 2:3 motion artefacts

In scenario2 you could have either 1080p24 or 1080i60 out of the BD player, the effect would be the same on screen of the RS1

OK, if the PJ is out as a de-interlacer then....
Why won't it display 24p from the Lumagen? There are two different timing modes for 1080p24 output that you can select when you tell the Lumagen that you want 1080p24 output: Timing Mode A and Mode B. Have you tried both? Also you can try 1080p48 output if the PJ will accept that format (you should check first, or just try it - if the PJ will not display, then just power off and back on the Lumagen and it will revert to its previous settings before it was changed to 1080p48).

No bubble to burst. I'm just looking for the best method to get from the source through the HDP and onto the screen. The only reason I have the HDP is to get the vertical stretch I need for my anamorphic lens. Otherwise, I wouldn't use it at all. Unfortunately there is nothing on the market that does the vertical stretch but just passes through the signal unmolested - at least not that I'm aware of. I don't want all the other bells and whistles, just the stretch.

I can see sending 1080i in and out from my Xbox, Cableboxes and SD-DVD, my only question is how to handle 1080p/24 inputs from Bluray.

You'll get better 1080i video deinterlacing from VXP no question. Film deinterlacing is probably a wash. Obviously, if you need the vertical stretch you'll need the Lumagen. You might find a way around it using a switcher for your other sources (especially video) that don't need the stretch. VXP is excellent for 480i sources (film and video) as well.

There's a reason Lumagen uses Gennum in the Radiance.:)

We have many customers who use the Lumagen HDP and HDQ with a JVC RS1 projector. I believe that most of them use both the 1080p24 and 1080p60 output resolutions to drive the projector.

Maybe you aren't using the correct procedure to set the 24p output rate on the Lumagen. To set the Lumagen output to 1080p24 press "Menu, OUT, RES, VRES, Ok, 1080, Ok, 24P, Ok". This is the only procedure you should use.

IF you can get the 1080p24 output from the Lumagen working with the RS1 then I'd say try using that for your film sources (BD, DVD) and bypass the Lumagen for your cable/sat etc. This would give you the benefit of superior video deinterlacing by VXP whilst having 1080p24 from the Lumagen with vertical stretch for BD and DVD where you need it. For cable/sat film sources, performance will still be top notch and you'll not likely get 1080p24 output from the Lumagen to work glitch-free for those anyway.

cpcat,

Please contact Lumagen (support@lumagen.com) if you have seen any issues with the performance of your LumagenHDP. Perhaps we can help you resolve an issue with your video system or your particular unit.

We have many customers using the LumagenHDP with the JVC RS1 projector. We have had numerous reports, from our customers, that this combination works very well.

We originally added a simple CMS system to the Vision series at the request of our JVC RS1 customers. They have reported a great improvement in the color accuracy of the projected image when they use the Lumagen CMS system to correct the inaccurate green color point on the RS1 projector.

We have many customers who use the Lumagen HDP and HDQ with a JVC RS1 projector. I believe that most of them use both the 1080p24 and 1080p60 output resolutions to drive the projector.

Maybe you aren't using the correct procedure to set the 24p output rate on the Lumagen. To set the Lumagen output to 1080p24 press "Menu, OUT, RES, VRES, Ok, 1080, Ok, 24P, Ok". This is the only procedure you should use.Thanks Randy. I have actually used that exact procedure, but have not been able to get 1080p/24 working. I had filed a support request on your site (http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=1342&start=15&rid=0&S=7a87fb51444d8c5d42d26dc579ca0fb0) and also sent an email with my config file to support, but haven't heard anything back yet. I'm the one that gets the green horizontal lines when in 2.35 mode, and significant stuttering on 1080i inputs.

I did try "film mode" as Ronomy suggested, and that definitely seems to help. I looked for "mode B" as well, but I don't see that as a choice from MENU -> OUT -> RES -> VRES. Where do I set that? Or do I need to?

If you have a lot of customers using the RS1 with 1080p/24 output, it would be great if you could publish on your forum or on your FAQ's (or right here for that matter) what the verified correct settings are for the RS1. That way I can figure out if I just don't have it configured correctly, or if something is actually wrong with my unit (what I'm starting to suspect...)

The auto deinterlacing modes are not that great in the HDx processors. They are slow to change modes and sometime switch to video mode during a movie and thus you see judder like movement for a few seconds before it switches back.

This is what I do with my RS1 and HDQ. I set the output to 1080p24 manually when I am watching a movie recorded with my HDDVR from a pay station and it works great. I must use forced film deinterlacing and all artifacts are completely gone. I use 1080p/60 mode B and forced motion adaptive deinterlacing for HD material (720 and 1080i) for everything else on SAT. 480i inputs are set to auto deinterlacing and 1080p/60 output mode B. I have the HDQ setup so that when watching an HDDVD or soon Bluray it outputs 1080p/24 if it see's a 1080p/24 input and if the HD player switches to 1080i/60 it changes to 1080p/60 output. This all works great. When watching Satellite and channel surfing you can't use 1080p/24 out of the HDQ or you will see judder with video recorded material.

Now regarding the deinterlacing in the HDQ. It does not suck! In fact I find the HDQ deinterlacing and scaling better than the RS1's Gennum processing and scaling. Actually it may not be the Gennums fault but pans while in 1080p/60 are much smoother via the HDQ. Of course 1080p/24 is perfect with movies...that's a given. A direct connection to the RS1 with 1080i/60 inputs yields panning that is not nearly as smooth as from the HDQ and it might be the scaling in the RS1 and not the gennum deinterlacing. 720p channels look much sharper scaled by the HDQ when compared to the RS1 scaling 720p to 1080p. That so called motion blur some people talk about on the RS1 seems to be eliminated when using the HDQ. I absolutely love the picture I get with my HDQ. Best money I ever spent to upgrade the RS1 to yield a picture much better IMHO.

The reason why I think the scaling in the RS1 is the cause of the motion blur is because if I let 720p inputs to the HDQ bypass the HDQ in 720p then the scaling in the RS1 is turned on and I immediately notice pans are not as smooth compared to the HDQ scaling 720p to 1080p. I've tried this several times and it is very noticeable.

Ron

Lumagen uses an industry standard timing for the 1080p24 mode. This mode will correctly drive your JVC RS1 projector. You can look at the output timing parameters in the Menu by pressing "Menu, OUT, RES, TIMING, Ok". This 24Hz mode will give you a judder free image for movies.

When you watch video you should use a 60Hz mode output mode on the Lumagen. Use 1080p60 Mode B for the JVC RS1 projector. To set the Lumagen output to 1080p60 press "Menu, OUT, RES, VRES, Ok, 1080, Ok, P, Ok, Mode B, Ok".

You should check that you have the latest firmware loaded on your JVC RS1 projector. Here is a link to information about update the firmware. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=813550

I would like to know more about your system. What is the brand and model of your video source? What movie or video is causing an issue? Describe the issue. Please give us any other information that would help us replicate the issue. Send this information to us at support@lumagen.com

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

cpcat,

Please contact Lumagen (support@lumagen.com) if you have seen any issues with the performance of your LumagenHDP. Perhaps we can help you resolve an issue with your video system or your particular unit.



I did not ever have issues with my HDP. Thanks for your concern. The issue here is with the OP and his JVC RS1.

There is no issue with the HDP's 1080i video deinterlacing as it is simply INFERIOR to most anything currently available including offerings from Gennum, Silicon Optix, ABT, Pioneer, and Sony. Sorry, but that's the fact Jack. Lumagen would be the first to admit this as well. It is older proprietary technology that never really panned out for Lumagen.

Now regarding the deinterlacing in the HDQ. It does not suck! In fact I find the HDQ deinterlacing and scaling better than the RS1's Gennum processing and scaling.

Have you tested both with test patterns?

I did not ever have issues with my HDP. Thanks for your concern. The issue here is with the OP and his JVC RS1.

There is no issue with the HDP's 1080i video deinterlacing as it is simply INFERIOR to most anything currently available including offerings from Gennum, Silicon Optix, ABT, Pioneer, and Sony. Sorry, but that's the fact Jack. Lumagen would be the first to admit this as well. It is older proprietary technology that never really panned out for Lumagen.

I do see some artifacts with the HDQ but they are minor when compared to the lesser scaling in my RS1u with pans that blur ever so slightly. That's more noticeable than deinterlacing artifacts from the HDQ. Lumagen scaling is wonderful even in the HDx processors. Zooming in up to 33% still looks sharp and mostly artifact free with HD material. It still yields a picture that is 95% free of artifacts most of the time. I don't see any artifacts with film. Only video do I see it and they are so minor they never bother me. I would rather live with the HDQ than what I used to see with the RS1 alone. I use my XA2/Reon for DVD's so like I said I only need deinterlacing in the HDQ for SAT these days. HDQ does the job well enough for me and a couple others on the forum too. I am surprised you haven't noticed the smoother pans. Several others have said they noticed a much smoother presentation. To me more like film than using the RS1 inputs directly. The RS1 gives the best picture when fed a 1080p picture for sure and I am sure the radiance would be wonderful if you want the absolute best there is for deinterlacing and scaling.

Ron

I don't have an RS1. I have a Sony vpl-vw50. My VXP experience is with the Anthem AVM50.

I'll not argue against the Lumagen scaling prowess at all.

Have you tested both with test patterns?

I have done some testing early on and I am not arguing that fact. I do see the issues with the deinterlacing in the HDQ I just think they are minor with live video most of the time. If I want the best picture I use my XA2 for DVD's and I'll have a Pioneer 51FD hopefully next week from VE. Also with movies recorded on my HR20 HD DVR with the HDQ set to 1080p/24 and forced film is absolutely perfect while deinterlacing 1080i/60. Much better than the RS1 direct. Sure the Video stuff trips up the HDQ or switching back and forth between film and video can trip it up but film using forced film mode is spot on IMO. I never see many problems watching football games at 120 inches either and that is 1080i/60! Use forced film for film and forced Motion adaptive mode for video and it looks great to me. After many years and many VP's I have come to the conclusion that test patterns are not the tell all. IMHO But that's just the way I see it. To each his own.

I don't have an RS1. I have a Sony vpl-vw50. My VXP experience is with the Anthem AVM50.

I'll not argue against the Lumagen scaling prowess at all.

I am just about positive its the scaling in the RS1 that causes the blur. Deinterlacing artifacts in the RS1 are almost never seen. The VXP works great!

You don't have the RS1 so you couldn't know. I needed long throw so I opted for the RS1. My previous projector was a Sony and I loved it for what it was at the time. I don't up grade much I run them until they are way obsolete. :) I guess I get my money's worth.

. After many years and many VP's I have come to the conclusion that test patterns are not the tell all. IMHO But that's just the way I see it. To each his own.

To each his own as you say. However, testing shows that the HDP 1080i "motion adaptive" deinterlacing performs similarly to simple "bob" deinterlacing by dropping vertical resolution. Gennum VXP, Reon HQV, Sony vpl-vw50, and Pioneer Kuro all provide full 1080 vertical resolution with the same test. I suppose I could have stayed with the "smoother" look but I decided against it.

As you say, very possibly the Radiance provides the best of scaling and deinterlacing. The HDP does not. What it does provide IMO is excellent scaling, switching, film deinterlacing, and gamma correction. The problem obviously is that for most of us video deinterlacing is pretty important.

cpcat, have you tried comparing SCALE=NORM vs SCALE=PASS on those tests?

To each his own as you say. However, testing shows that the HDP 1080i "motion adaptive" deinterlacing performs similarly to simple "bob" deinterlacing by dropping vertical resolution. Gennum VXP, Reon HQV, Sony vpl-vw50, and Pioneer Kuro all provide full 1080 vertical resolution with the same test. I suppose I could have stayed with the "smoother" look but I decided against it.

As you say, very possibly the Radiance provides the best of scaling and deinterlacing. The HDP does not. What it does provide IMO is excellent scaling, switching, film deinterlacing, and gamma correction. The problem obviously is that for most of us video deinterlacing is pretty important.

BOB deinterlacing! That's a surprise! OK I'll have to go run some tests then. Funny the HDQ test report in Widescreen review never said anything about this. It actually said some good things about the motion adaptive feature. Plus I never saw any flashing in the test screens when I looked at it. Although that was early on with my HDQ and I wasn't forcing motion adaptive. Plus motion adaptive looks sharper. You got me thinking and its bugging me. I'll go check now and post back later. Yes I have all the test disc's! :o

Ron

To each his own as you say. However, testing shows that the HDP 1080i "motion adaptive" deinterlacing performs similarly to simple "bob" deinterlacing by dropping vertical resolution. Gennum VXP, Reon HQV, Sony vpl-vw50, and Pioneer Kuro all provide full 1080 vertical resolution with the same test. I suppose I could have stayed with the "smoother" look but I decided against it.

As you say, very possibly the Radiance provides the best of scaling and deinterlacing. The HDP does not. What it does provide IMO is excellent scaling, switching, film deinterlacing, and gamma correction. The problem obviously is that for most of us video deinterlacing is pretty important.

Reread the Widescreen review article on the HDQ. Your talking about deinterlacing during motion. It does say that it does a good job minimizing resolution pumping during motion. Any how I still think it looks better than direct into my RS1 and I only use the deinterlacing for SAT broadcasting. Plus the gamut and gamma/grayscale tools are just to good to give up for a slight drop of vertical resolution.

You guys just need to test it for yourself. There's no reason for me to spend time "convincing" here. If I'm wrong, you'll be relieved. If not, enlightened.:)

Get the HQV BD test disc or a copy of DR1934's 1080i test patterns.

I have the HDQ setup so that when watching an HDDVD or soon Bluray it outputs 1080p/24 if it see's a 1080p/24 input and if the HD player switches to 1080i/60 it changes to 1080p/60 output. This all works great. When watching Satellite and channel surfing you can't use 1080p/24 out of the HDQ or you will see judder with video recorded material.

Lumagen uses an industry standard timing for the 1080p24 mode. This mode will correctly drive your JVC RS1 projector. You can look at the output timing parameters in the Menu by pressing "Menu, OUT, RES, TIMING, Ok". This 24Hz mode will give you a judder free image for movies.

When you watch video you should use a 60Hz mode output mode on the Lumagen. Use 1080p60 Mode B for the JVC RS1 projector. To set the Lumagen output to 1080p60 press "Menu, OUT, RES, VRES, Ok, 1080, Ok, P, Ok, Mode B, Ok".

Ok, I'm starting to understand this a bit better now. I did not realize I needed to use different output resolutions depending on the format of the input source. I thought I was looking for a single output resolution that matches the native rez of the projector and just leave it at that. Now I see that I need 60P for video sources and 24P for Film sources.

I decided to start from scratch last night. I reset the HDP to factory defaults and all I did was set the output to 1080p60Mode B (and 2.35 output for my fixed lens). Then we watched 2 episodes of Lost from an SD-DVD from my Panny BD-30 outputting 1080i. It looked amazing! I also tried the cableboxes and they both look great as well. Now I know why this works well for these formats - they are all video based...right?

Tonight I will try 1080p24 from Film sources to make sure that works as well. I'll report back my findings.

Ron,

How do you have it set up so that it switches automatically to 24P when it sees a film-based input? Assuming I can get 24P to work for Film sources, I would love to have that setup. I guess I could make the switch manually, but that is not high WAF. I need to set it up so that everything happens automatically.

The Vision Technical Tip 1 and 2 on our website shows how to use the input resolution sub-memories and user memories. You might be able to switch between 1080p24 and 1080p60 automatically, depending on your video sources and input resolutions. http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=manuals

Most likely it would be simplest to use two user memories, linked to two different output resolutions, to switch between 1080p24 and 1080p60 output resolutions. Then you just need to press the "MemA" or the "MemB" button on the remote to select the correct output resolution. When you are done using the system, leave it set to 1080p60 for your wife to use.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman

You guys just need to test it for yourself. There's no reason for me to spend time "convincing" here. If I'm wrong, you'll be relieved. If not, enlightened.:)

Get the HQV BD test disc or a copy of DR1934's 1080i test patterns.

Every other line shouldn't flash with a static test pattern. It's the motion patterns that would flash when the motion adaptive deinterlacing reduces vertical resolution. With film based sources it should not look like BOB during motion. I haven't checked this yet.

Every other line shouldn't flash with a static test pattern. It's the motion patterns that would flash when the motion adaptive deinterlacing reduces vertical resolution. With film based sources it should not look like BOB during motion. I haven't checked this yet.

Just to clarify, I didn't say "bob" I said "similar to bob in that it drops vertical resolution".

If you force film mode with the video test pattern, vertical resolution with static images is maintained as it's simply weaving. Anything that moves will obviously artifact though.

Just to clarify, I didn't say "bob" I said "similar to bob in that it drops vertical resolution".

If you force film mode with the video test pattern, vertical resolution with static images is maintained as it's simply weaving. Anything that moves will obviously artifact though.

WSR review summed it up. The motion adaptive isn't up to what the newer chips can do. My HDQ is doing something right with my RS1 that solves some of the panning blur issues going directly into the RS1 so it works for me.