Nice job Alan, fill us all in now http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1063257

WOW!!!!!

Exciting but probably only LJG can afford it!!!

Cineramax, take a back seat to Alan Gouger who now takes front row center for the very best home cinema experience!!!@@@:D

This could be the single most improvement to each and every projector, the available content has always been the weakest link.

No, even you Steve can afford it, just go a few days without any snake oil tweaks

Well done Alan. You certainly deserve the credit.:)

This looks like an amazing option with fantastic possibilities.

Where is the website damnit!!!!

.....

oh wait, maybe I'm already on it.

I searched and seached but i couldn't find it last night. The former Kodak CTO doesn't even seem to have a linkedin profile. The only result google came up with was the announcement posted here at avsforum. Guess this must be the start of a whispercampaign,:D

O yea baby !
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/medium/screenshot_0126.jpg

Thanks guys. Were all enthusiast here so Im just as excited about the project and glad to be part of the team. Its been a long time coming, most of all for those of us who care about video quality its a breath of fresh air knowing there are options avail beyond consumer watered down HD. Sim2 has licensed and partnered with EE, they should be displaying something interesting as well. Go Sim2!
A little detail. Both EE and Sim will display projectors in 1080p format meeting DCI color and gamma displaying content from EEs server. Anyone can purchase the server and order content as it works with any display with HDCP. For those who want the best you can max the experience if using a projector that meets DCI color. They also have on display a 70 terabyte server. The worlds very first. A one box solution that can stream multiple HD programs at once to different paths. Lots of good things to come from EE. Should be a fun ride.

Im excited.

Alan Gouger
Good luck with this venture!
What will the video format be besides 1080p resolution and DCI color/gamma. Can you say anything about
bitrate
color depth
rgb or component at x:y:z encoding

Did you see MrD suggesting you add closed loop calibration using 3D LUTs. Kodak evidently has sucha software that allows you to map into or out of one gamut to another.

Alan Gouger
Good luck with this venture!
What will the video format be besides 1080p resolution and DCI color/gamma. Can you say anything about
bitrate
color depth
rgb or component at x:y:z encoding

Did you see MrD suggesting you add closed loop calibration using 3D LUTs. Kodak evidently has sucha software that allows you to map into or out of one gamut to another.

I think the release mentioned an initial 2x bit rate.

I believe it already does LUT to an output of rec709 if you are not DCI compliant.

I could be wrong, Alan may be able to confirm.

O yea baby !
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/medium/screenshot_0126.jpg

Thanks guys. Were all enthusiast here so Im just as excited about the project and glad to be part of the team. Its been a long time coming, most of all for those of us who care about video quality its a breath of fresh air knowing there are options avail beyond consumer watered down HD. Sim2 has licensed and partnered with EE, they should be displaying something interesting as well. Go Sim2!
A little detail. Both EE and Sim will display projectors in 1080p format meeting DCI color and gamma displaying content from EEs server. Anyone can purchase the server and order content as it works with any display with HDCP. For those who want the best you can max the experience if using a projector that meets DCI color. They also have on display a 70 terabyte server. The worlds very first. A one box solution that can stream multiple HD programs at once to different paths. Lots of good things to come from EE. Should be a fun ride.

Im excited.

Thanks Alan and congrats on the venture. I like your new picture too.

PS Anything on the audio codecs from this ?

Art

PS Anything on the audio codecs from this

Nut sack.:D:D:D

Nut sack.:D:D:D

You're holding the fish I'll stay clear.:D

Art

Excuse me for being a bit slow here.

Alan has one beyond HD thing coming and will be in competition with SIM2 and its partner or are you all working together.

the avsforum link in the first post doesn't seem valid... can someone correct it?
p.s. neither does the first link on Google search results for 'entertainment experience beyond hd' ... Alan, pls fix that link otherwise your search traffic is dead ending.

Excuse me for being a bit slow here.

Alan has one beyond HD thing coming and will be in competition with SIM2 and its partner or are you all working together.

EE is Sim2's licensee and partner. The same people, they've all been working together.

Link fixed:)

Mattias Sim2 has licensed the color/gamma software and is in a sense partnering with EE. There is room for this relationship to expand. Sim2 has always been interested in staying at the front of new technology being the first to bring the latest to the HT market. EE being a new company and Sim2 established as one of the elite projection manufactures, working together proved beneficial to both.
I will try to get to everyone questions later tonight.

We can always rely on Alan, David and Co to take us to the next level. Congrats. :D
Can't wait to see the pics/stats.
Don't want to see the price. :rolleyes:

A DCI gamut and gamma is not difficult and has been available for some time, but what's new about this is the availability of DCI content. Exactly how will this be made available to consumers?

Exciting news, congratulations Alan! Look forward to hearing more.

Don't want to see the price. :rolleyes:

Not bad at all. The server will cost more then a pack of battery's for your remote but cheaper then most mid priced projectors. More to come.

Content will be pre ordered via an ordering web page. The content will come keyed to your server.

A DCI gamut and gamma is not difficult and has been available for some time, but what's new about this is the availability of DCI content. Exactly how will this be made available to consumers?

I believe, from the release, there is actually more to certain aspects of the color and gamma tables. Otherwise they would not be licensed. I think its the companies own IP.

for those, like me, who have seen the DCI acronym mentioned on avs, but didn't know what it referred to, here is the spec for the Digital Cinema Initiative:
http://www.dcimovies.com/specification/index.tt2
You can also find an About page to learn about their reasons for working on the DCI.

Looks like JPEG2000 compression of 2K (2048x1080) and 4K (4096x1080) frames, with audio format supporting a whole mess of speakers ... do the good commercial theatres really have 5 speakers behind the screen??

If JPEG2000 is intra-frame compression only, i.e. each of the 24fps is compressed by itself in a lossless manner, and as such there is no interframe compression, that would mean way way more data than BluRay. If BR is like 10-20GB (??), what would one of these movies consume in terms of HDD at 4K?

I am interested, as the effective quality of JPEG2000 would have obviously be far better than VC1 or H.263 or whatever... BUT, for me to dive in, and I WOULD, the SIM2 can't be the projector of choice.... JVC RS20 Alan, and you can sign me up as a customer for sure.

I don't think anything has been said about getting DCI content, or even about release dates relative to first run or even DVD/Blu-Ray release dates. I think people are jumping to conclusions a bit due to lack of details...lets give them a few days to clarify things.

Cinetopia, thanks for the correction, I may have read too much into the "DCI color format" piece of the release.

70 TB server Holy shite!!!!

70 TB server Holy shite!!!!

Picture posted.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1063274
Your looking at the drives through the clear top.

70TB... the power consumption of this unit, the fan and hdd NOISE, must be setting a new record. Well I have the perfect place for it, but I am immediately reminded of the 1TB server I built that was stoa 8 years ago and now fits all in one drive... sorry, but I am just experiencing once again the thrill of technology depreciation on a whole bunch of things at once.

Posted by Alan Gouger:

"New Sim2 1080 C3X. It will have a new name. Model will include dynamic black. Brighter and twice the contrast of the previous model. May cost more well. Ships next year."



Very interesting. Will there be an upgrade path for existing C3X1080's?

I don't think anything has been said about getting DCI content, or even about release dates relative to first run or even DVD/Blu-Ray release dates. I think people are jumping to conclusions a bit due to lack of details...lets give them a few days to clarify things.

You will see offerings running in file size double BD to full DCI. The source for all content will be from the master before NR or EE has been applied and you should see a noticeable visual improvement in picture quality. At first content will arrive no later then BD with the intent of moving forward with current negotiations for same day and date. More later:)

Alan, I am impressed by the aggressive move in this space... my congrats on this initiative.

You will see offerings running in file size double BD to full DCI. The source for all content will be from the master before NR or EE has been applied and you should see a noticeable visual improvement in picture quality. At first content will arrive no later then BD with the intent of moving forward with current negotiations for same day and date. More later:)

Alan, this is truly game changing! New format war anyone? Congratulations - great news :)

I don't think we are jumping the gun . It looks like anice step up from BD and can go via HDMI.

Art

I don't think we are jumping the gun . It looks like anice step up from BD and can go via HDMI.

Art

and possibly simultaneous or near theatrical/home theater release is the kicker. Imagine inviting friends over to the HT for a new release :D

and possibly simultaneous or near theatrical/home theater release is the kicker. Imagine inviting friends over to the HT for a new release :D

That's the Big Daddy Butt Slammer. Awesome feature.

Wonder if D-Box can get one of these and speed up their motion code release time table?

Content is King! Day and date would be the killer hook-up if it is possible. The fact that it hasn't been done yet (and knowing some of the politics behind it) is keeping my hopes in check.

Alan, what is time table for hardware and software/content?

Alan, what is time table for hardware and software/content?

Shooting for qtr 1 09.

Day and date would be great, but even within a week or two of release would still be killer.

Is the compression going to be a wavelet codec like MJPEG2000, or are we still stuck using outdated discrete cosign transform codecs?

I really hope the bit depth will be wider than 8 bits.

As long this doesn't turn out to just be Superbit blu-ray with DCI colourspace, then it's fantastic news.

if it is DCI spec stuff, then according to the 1.2 DCI spec I read, it is JPEG2000, but I don't know which mode or any other specifics.

I am interested, as the effective quality of JPEG2000 would have obviously be far better than VC1 or H.263 or whatever....
That depends entirely on the bit rate. JPEG2000 is less efficient since intraframe compression only.

Press release clearly states - "encoding standards including Mpeg2, Mpeg4, H.264, and VC1 at bit rates up to three times higher than conventional HD". JPEG2000 isn't a very efficient codec and given that they probably want DMR I'm figuring VC1 will be the choice.

You will see offerings running in file size double BD to full DCI. The source for all content will be from the master before NR or EE has been applied and you should see a noticeable visual improvement in picture quality. At first content will arrive no later then BD with the intent of moving forward with current negotiations for same day and date. More later:)
It's not April first. Hm.... Alan, are you pulling our collective legs?? This sounds too good to be true.
If this works with any HDMI 1.3 1080p projector count me in at once. Where do I sign? :D:cool::D:cool:

That depends entirely on the bit rate. JPEG2000 is less efficient since intraframe compression only.

Yes I stated the intraframe aspect already, and on the bit rate, one would never use JPEG2000 unless it was for much higher quality than JPEG, and probably mostly in lossless mode, but who knows in this case.

Regarding the later post on the multitude of codecs supported in Alan's product, then what we are seeing is not a DCI delivery system, which is what I would have liked to see, but a sort of super SuperBit version of BluRay... is MY guess. I am still very interested... at the end of the day, if they double the datarate of VC1, the improvement may be very visible....

If this works with any HDMI 1.3 1080p projector count me in at once. Where do I sign? :D:cool::D:cool:

me two. way, deep, in.

If the content is locked to a specific server, is there any reason not to ship worldwide? The cost is hardly an issue, since I dont see the price sensitive going down this road.

The additional information that’s coming will show whether this is a fantastic development or an incredibly fantastic development. In any case, this is the most important HT happening in a long time and much more significant than 2K content with 4K projectors.

We already know that it will have a much larger color gamut, much less compression, and a large screen optimized transfer. This is already great. If we also have 10 bit color and 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 subsampling, it will be better still. I don’t expect actual DCI content, at least not for any movie that anyone wants to see. This could be close enough to DCI quality that the final step of full DCI content would be only a modest further improvement. The main significance would be 3D DCI, but that would require a DCI projector.

If the content is locked to a specific server, is there any reason not to ship worldwide? The cost is hardly an issue, since I dont see the price sensitive going down this road.

I think there are licensing issues.

If we're talking physical media like hard drives, one could employ one of those re-mailing firms.

awesome... this new amazing new thing with huge promise shows up and already the discussion is about how to circumvent rules they will likely have to follow.

And people wonder why Hollywood is so reticent to unlock the vaults!

awesome... this new amazing new thing with huge promise shows up and already the discussion is about how to circumvent rules they will likely have to follow.

And people wonder why Hollywood is so reticent to unlock the vaults!

Agreed 110%. What an idiot, totally lacking in class. The level of disrespect to those who put the effort in defies logic. Get that post away asp.

one would never use JPEG2000 unless it was for much higher quality than JPEG
JPEG and JPEG2000 are two completely different compression codecs. JPEG uses DCT compression like MPEG2 and H264 do. JPEG2000 uses wavelet compression, which has far less objectionable artifacts than DCT (no blocking and mosquitos).

but a sort of super SuperBit version of BluRay... is MY guess. I am still very interested... at the end of the day, if they double the datarate of VC1, the improvement may be very visible....
VC1 is optimised for lowish bitrates, so there isn't so much to gain from making a superbit version of it. I'll be pretty disappointed if that's all this is, given the potential for higher dynamic ranges, higher chroma sampling, less archaic compression codecs, anamorphic compression of 2.35:1 material, etc that they could give us with this approach.

Although we'd all love to be able to buy DCI, I think we all are reasonable about the chances of that happening. It's just a shame to see a repeat of most of the shortcomings of blu-ray when blu-ray shouldn't have had them in the first place.

Wow! Really looking forward to more details, when will pricing be announced?

Not bad at all. The server will cost more then a pack of battery's for your remote but cheaper then most mid priced projectors. More to come.

Content will be pre ordered via an ordering web page. The content will come keyed to your server.

Well, I definitely want to be subscribed to the thread now.

*subscribed*

There is a valid point about geographical distribution though. I'll soon be living in Toronto and would like to know if it would be available in the great white north.

I think there are licensing issues.
So people not living in US are out of luck? :confused:

Lack of DNR and EE would make this worth it for me, but only if the following issues were addressed:

- Audio output over HDMI. I don't want to go through a round of A/D/A conversion.

- Permanent keys. I would not be interested in renting movies with keys expiring after a short while.

Anybody knows about that?

So people not living in US are out of luck? :confused:
Lets hope not.

Ditto! That's great news Alan, but do not forget the rest of the world! :D

Lack of DNR and EE would make this worth it for me, but only if the following issues were addressed:

- Audio output over HDMI. I don't want to go through a round of A/D/A conversion.

- Permanent keys. I would not be interested in renting movies with keys expiring after a short while.

Anybody knows about that?

This whole concept sounds great. Especially if you can get the content close to the theatrical release.

I would hope there are two options, the permanent key and the rental type key.

More info

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/09/05/sim2-tag-teams-with-entertainment-experience-to-bring-you-movies/

I would hope there are two options, the permanent key and the rental type key.

That's what I was thinking, I like to watch a lot more movies than I like to have on hand. It would be great if we could "subscribe" to a receive a new set of movies (ideally of our choice like Netflix) each week or so, but also the ability to buy some of the keepers to have on hand at all times.

My understanding is this is exactly what is happening. You can watch it for a limited time or buy it.

Art

My understanding is this is exactly what is happening. You can watch it for a limited time or buy it.

Art

That sounds great. So Alan mentioned that the hardware will be in a certain price range. I wonder how much the content costs? A rough estimate would even be appreciated. :)

My understanding is this is exactly what is happening. You can watch it for a limited time or buy it.

Art

It would be interesting to know if it will be possible to backup the files of the movies that have been bought.

Hard drives do fail, I have so many at home that I lose one almost every month.

I said it in the other thread: "REMEMBER UNITY MOTION" This whole plan is dependant on content. In reading a few of the posts here there seems to be speculation that this service will deliver movies the same day as the box office opens.

That's not gonna happen people! Not on blockbuster A features. There are countless legal and other licensing hurdles to get around for that. Don't beleive for a minute you will have a copy of Spiderman 6 on your home server the day it's released.

Now here's what I would do. Forget the major studios. Sure go ahead and run their stuff in higher quality but only when it's economically viable to license it - like after cable TV airing. Otherwise the service will be way too expensive. With the introduction of lower cost DI tools like the RED camera, there is going to be a lot more 2K & 4K digital content around. These independant film makers are going to need as many outlets as they can get because they will be the rebles in the eyes of the established studios. Here is one of those outlets.

Now the mere possesion of a 4K camera and associated edit system does not make one a qualified or talented film maker. Like most professions, nature only turns out so many great ones each generation. However there could still be some great content out there looking for an outlet. Mark Cuban has already played with this concept.

The new release refers to the movies as being on hard drives that are "hot swappable." So, maybe the server holds the hard drives that contain the movies -- one bay per film -- like a video jukebox -- and you can fill your server with hard drives containing movies you've purchased, use some bays for movies you've rented, swap drives -- films -- in and out, etc.



.

I never cease to be amazed at speculation and assumptions about a product that has not released its details.

THey have a thing, it is a great concept, but everybody is already assuming it works this way or that... it is funny.

You can't keep this up. At some point, you've got to cease being amazed.

Personally, I always cease to be amazed.


I can only handle so much amazement, then I'm spent.

my previous post made no mention of either being amazed or ceasing to be so. :D

Seriously though, talking about "i hope it has ____ feature" is cool and fun, assuming it works in method X or Y is just silly.

Sure, but heck, we've got room for silly -- it's a big tent.

It's so big, you'd be......amazed!

Personally, I hope it has a feature that lets us time travel.

is this the thing that michael Douglas was investing in announced at ces?

I mean, not to soubdstupid- I dotthink it is, but I was wondering if the concept morphed or something.

Regarding hard drive failure- I would assume that the media center would e a closed kaliedescape like system. So you get a movie, plug in the hard drive cartridge, movie copies, send cartridge back, right?

Signs point to yes.
Reply hazy, try again.
Without a doubt.
My sources say no.
As I see it, yes.
You may rely on it.
Concentrate and ask again.
Outlook not so good.
It is decidedly so.
Better not tell you now.
Very doubtful.
Yes - definitely.
It is certain.
Cannot predict now.
Most likely.
Ask again later.
My reply is no.
Outlook good.
Don't count on it.

Sim2 is up and running today displaying content. This image from a cell phone does no justice. Hopefully we will hear from someone first hand.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/0905081249.jpg

So people not living in US are out of luck? :confused:

Buy some property, as long as you have a US address, you should be all set. You can enjoy watching movies in Switzerland then. After all, no one can force you to keep the equipment in the US, if you have other places to live as well.

I never cease to be amazed at speculation and assumptions about a product that has not released its details.

THey have a thing, it is a great concept, but everybody is already assuming it works this way or that... it is funny.


Mine isn't speculation,I hope you weren't referring to me. It may pan out differently but that is horses mouth stuff.

Art

I saw the demo in the Sim2 booth with the C3X Host. Nice, but nothing that really stood out to me. Then again, my eyes were pretty tired from being up since 5AM.

Heres the Host demo. The better then Blu was a different set up.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/0905081242.jpg

Same here, went straight to the Sim2 booth...not impressed. Difference over a BR was not significant to me.

Hmmm... Bummer. :(

Same here, went straight to the Sim2 booth...not impressed. Difference over a BR was not significant to me.

Kevin

cal87 saw the C3X host demo not the Content demo. Which did you see, what projector where they using?

Maybe I didn't see the right demo....I'll go back tomorrow.

Maybe I didn't see the right demo....I'll go back tomorrow.

Ask for Jim Armstrong and ask for the DCI demo. They will show you the same material in both formats. You will like DCI color:)

Ok Alan. What is the ballpark range I would have to spend in order to get this DCI color gamut. PJ and media server cost. Would any of the sub $5000 FP have this ability?

Kevin

cal87 saw the C3X host demo not the Content demo. Which did you see, what projector where they using?

I thought that Jim said it was the EE demo, definitely was the C3X, but I could have been mistaken about the content. There was no comparison to other content. They did the D60 first, never got to the HT5000.

I thought it looked great. Really looked like film and it made the BR look like film converted to video. There were some issue with high levels of noise and solarization in very dark content. The only thing that ruined it was that is was a Mandy More video youtube.com/watch?v=GRuv1sotmQU :confused: Overall looked very promising.

solarization in very dark content.
If they have increased the gamut without increasing the bit depth then there will be a larger range of colours covered by each of the 12 million or so shades that can be displayed, increasing the potential for banding. DCI gets around this by using a 12 bit log greyscale, but there hasn't been any word so far of them using anything beyond 8 bit integer for this. Given that HDMI and most new displays can accept 10 bit YCbCr, it strikes me as odd they wouldn't improve the bit depth as well as the gamut, they sort of go hand in hand.

Buy some property, as long as you have a US address, you should be all set. You can enjoy watching movies in Switzerland then. After all, no one can force you to keep the equipment in the US, if you have other places to live as well.
I'm not that interested to buy property just for that. If they are smart they offer this worldwide, if necessary with different release date restrictions, but no other restrictions. Also, there is content from other countries one would like to see this way, not just Hollywood product, so it needs to be an international approach anyway.

it is not a case of being smart, it is a case of complying with complex international licensing agreements.

Comply with those agreements, SMART, allow event he smallest loophole for people to cause those agreements to be defaulted... NOT SMART.

If they have increased the gamut without increasing the bit depth then there will be a larger range of colours covered by each of the 12 million or so shades that can be displayed, increasing the potential for banding. DCI gets around this by using a 12 bit log greyscale, but there hasn't been any word so far of them using anything beyond 8 bit integer for this. Given that HDMI and most new displays can accept 10 bit YCbCr, it strikes me as odd they wouldn't improve the bit depth as well as the gamut, they sort of go hand in hand.

I guess we will have to get some real specs here soon.

I know there has been reference to it in other threads, but I wanted to start one specifically to keep this issue clear and to get some direct opinion.......

1. Did anyone see the improved content shown at the Sim2 stand? Bear in mind not all that was shown was this new stuff. Please don't post some inane drivel like "I saw something but Im not sure if it was the new thing"

2. Did anyone see a comparison with standard HD

3. Has anyone seen it elsewhere?

Alan, I'm hoping you can give us a decent appraisal soon as this has caught many peoples imagination.

Technical specs of typical content would be useful, including bit depth and chroma sampling. Interface requirements from the server to projector would also help, including version of HDMI needed. Some indication of which features of the content would be available with a projector like the JVC RS20 would be of interest to many.

On Saturday, Sim2 showed a couple downloaded clips from Video Giants that were said to be running at a higher bitrate than blue ray.

As far as I know,

The only higher than HD clips were actual 4k clips from a prototype 4k camera presented on the new 4k JVC. These were phenomenal in every respect.

Yes I seen it at SIM2 and at the HD Experience sound room.

The projector has to modified with a thier (HDE) software for color management. At present 3 points of control and the future will bring 10.

In the HDE room (no audio so there are serious about thier video!) they displayed thier projector. The new player was an HP PC but the street product will be dressed up and consumer proofed for the high end home cinema market though still a PC at heart.

They (HD Giants, I think. Sorry COLD for thinking) are trying to cut a deal with "Hollywood" to distribute the media at $50 a disk (2x the bit rate of BR) in less than 30 days of the release in theaters.

I'm on thier email list so I'll update those as I'm updated.

I spent a good amount of time there. They were playing off a laptop, in fact they had to go retrieve the laptop from the Sim2 booth to do the demo. A couple of clips from Video Giants, one of them was a Mandy Moore video. Looked nice, but they did not have normal BD/HD content to compare it directly to. They did do a switch on a freeze frame in Windows Media Player to sort of try to show the difference in color. What they were describing was a 45 meg bitrate and 12 bit color depth. Talked about distributing via a BD50. Seems to me that bitrate may be lower than what you would really want. Also, it seems that a BD50 would not be enough. The idea is to transfer the content to your server, and it is yours. The disc or hard drive would then be returned.

They are planning on having a 3-chip 1080P DLP projector as part of the package, based on the Delta platform. They also have a 720P option, but I am not sure anyone in the target population would want this.

It seems that this company is very much in its infancy, and not all of the details are sorted out just yet.

Infancy? Its a virtual company with various folks saying different things. Not a criticism but a result of the group not being centralized and being in an infancy stage. The rumor is that Alan G. has been appointed VP of marketing. More than a runor because one of the EE folks said thay had a partnership with Alan on this. Seems very strange that Sim2 has partnered with them if they are really going to market their own projector. Basically Delta machines modified to meet DCI standards (yellow filter and special gamma curves).

The way this Video Giants is coming out in the next 6 months for sure is VIA Download thru servers whose software was written by Aspen Media Systems.

There I met with:

Paul McIntire pmcintire@aspenmediaproducts.com
Katherine Ryan kryan@musicgiants.com

There will be 4,500 downloadable tiltles, these 1080p tiltes will be 45mb DEEP COLOR HDMI 1.3. You also get a dvd copy and a digital copy to play on ipod evrytime you download. You can rent and purchase if you like or one or the other.

Regarding DCI content, aspen media has a server, Video Giants is actively looking to implement a separate DCI like content tier via secure key hard drive -1st Q 2009. The movies will be 500-1,000 and you can ionly watch them for a limited playing time. This monetary incentivizing of the studios I BUY. Bring it on.

I suggest you get in these peoples distribution list to get the facts straight in a consistent basis moving forward.

They say they have the capacity to deliver FULL DCI or watered down versions based on variable codecs. Not different masters.

Of the 4,500 titles she only confirmed the image entertainment library. These have all the Imax tiltles.

I told them that a little bird told me warner, universal, and paramount , they just smiled. So it is safe to assume those seem to be the studios for the downloaded content.

The way this Video Giants is coming out in the next 6 months for sure is VIA Download thru servers whose software was written by Aspen Media Systems.

There I met with:

Paul McIntire pmcintire@aspenmediaproducts.com
Katherine Ryan kryan@musicgiants.com

There will be 4,500 downloadable tiltles, these 1080p tiltes will be 45mb. You also get a dvd copy and a digital copy to play on ipod evrytime you download. You can rent and purchase if you like or one or the other.

Regarding DCI content, aspen media has a server, Video Giants is actively looking to implement a separate DCI like content tier via secure key hard drive -1st Q 2009. The movies will be 500-1,000 and you can ionly watch them for a limited playing time. This monetary incentivizing of the studios I BUY. Bring it on.

I suggest you get in these peoples distribution list to get the facts straight in a consistent basis moving forward.


Peter:

This is with Better than HD, not in competition correct?

MUSICGIANTS® AND VIDEOGIANTS™ BECOME ONE BIG GIANT
Denver, CO – CEDIA EXPO – September 4-7, 2008 – MusicGiants, Inc. today announced its new corporate identity, HDGiants™, to convey to customers, dealers and manufacturers that it is the only source for the highest quality music AND movies for high-end home theaters.
MusicGiants launched in 2005 as the only digital download service licensed to sell high-definition music from all of the major music labels. The company recently introduced its HD film distribution platform, “VideoGiants”, and felt it was necessary to make the move to HDGiants so that customers, dealers and manufactures would know the company’s products were not limited to the highest quality music. HDGiants will continue to offer its high definition music under the MusicGiants® brand. Likewise, high definition movies, music concerts, music videos and television will continue to be distributed under its VideoGiants® brand.
“Our music and film content is a higher quality than the content you can get from any other digital distributor licensed by the major music and film companies. It makes the experience in any home theater environment sound better and look better”, says Scott Bahneman, CEO of HDGiants. “It is a must-have for anybody who has invested in high performance audio or video gear for their home”, Bahneman continued.
“Our move to HDGiants is very exciting and it truly represents the amount of growth that we have made in key areas of entertainment distribution,” continues Bahneman. “Under this corporate identity we will continue to move into more diverse areas of content delivery including music videos, television, concerts, 3D movies and video games, and imagery.”
MusicGiants’ HD downloads use the WMA lossless format to deliver up to seven time’s better sound quality than other digital download services. MusicGiants also offers Super HD™ downloads created from our proprietary hardware and software system using sample rates of 88.2/24 and 96/24. These files re-create the fantastic listening experience of SACD and DVD-Audio.
VideoGiants delivers high bit rate content ranging from 420p standard definition to 1080p up to 45 mbps, depending on hardware partner capability. This is a video experience previously unavailable to home theater customers.
Currently, the MusicGiants® and VideoGiants™ HD Media Store is being integrated with top hardware manufacturers such as Crestron, Aspen Media Products, QSonix, Niveus, Russound, Olive and ReQuest which provide access to our premium content through their high performance entertainment systems. HDGiants has more than 600 CEDIA dealers in its program who increase their profit margin and earn recurring revenue on every entertainment purchase their customers make.

HDGIANTS™ RELEASES FIRST-OF-ITS-KIND HD MUSIC AND MOVIE STORE AND MANAGEMENT APPLICATION FOR MICROSOFT’S VISTA OPERATING CENTER
Denver, CO – CEDIA EXPO 2008 – September 4-7, 2008 – HDGiants, the leading distributor of high definition entertainment into home theater environments, today announced the release of its HD MediaStore™ application for integration with consumer electronics running Microsoft’s Vista operating system Media Center Edition. This unique application allows media server customers the ease and convenience of purchasing and downloading high quality movies and music directly into their living room through their remote control.
“The media server market has exploded in the last year and the demand for easy access to high quality entertainment is on the rise. With our HD MediaStore™ application for Vista-based MCE devices, we are uniquely positioned to meet this demand,” says Scott Bahneman, CEO of HDGiants. “Whether you are a media server manufacturer or a do-it-yourselfer, our HD Media Store application gives you the ability to buy new movies and music in the highest quality available with a click of your remote control.”
The HD MediaStore™ application for Vista MCE devices is being developed in partnership with Aspen Media Products who recognizes its added-value as a primary way of differentiating their media server products from the rest of the competition. In addition to media servers providing customers with exciting ways to manage their digital media, they now have the ability to offer the convenience of a built-in HD entertainment store where customers can purchase and download all of their favorite movies and music in the highest quality available.
“HDGiants has come through big, offering the highest quality movies and music in digital format. At Aspen Media we are dedicated to bringing exceptional quality to the home entertainment market, while maintaining integrity,” says John Oliver, CTO of Aspen Media Products. “This offering is not only the ultimate in quality and simplicity; it is the legal way to load high definition movies on a hard drive. We partnered with HDGiants to bring this experience into Media Center with the same quality that both our companies are known for, written directly into Media Center the store also becomes the easiest way for your customers to get their digital media. Together Aspen Media Products and HDGiants is AMPlifiying your digital life!”
The HD MediaStore™ is available for demonstration during the CEDIA EXPO 2008 at the Aspen Media Products booth - #478. Key features include browsing the MusicGiants® and VideoGiants™ store, unique search capabilities and overall ease of installation and use of this application. To learn more contact Jack Wrigley, VP Sales of HDGiants at jwrigley@hdgiants.com.
About HDGiants
HDGiants delivers high definition entertainment directly into home theater environments through its proprietary content delivery platform. Our HD MediaStore™ is integrated into top media servers for convenient delivery of the highest quality movies, music and other digital content. HDGiants is the perfect companion for home audio and video systems and anywhere else that high quality entertainment matters. For information on HDGiants, visit www.HDGiants.com.
Press Contact: Katherine Ryan 415.713.2682
kryan@HDGiants.com

I will start a new thread on this formidable musicGiants and Video Giants server system with Gangable 200 Blue ray changers.

Katherine Ryan , a ravishing button is adamant of the better than HD quality, that is what they are all about, Higher Bit rate, deeper color.


The Bel Air Circuit for the millionaire masses thing is something she feels security can be ensured and that the studios will open the vaults at the prospect of 5,000 people paying 1,000 a movie.

I believe I saw the Beyond HD demo in the SIM2 booth, and frankly I was left wanting. They said it was like 40-50Mbps of video, and I perceived it to look slightly better, but there was no wow, this is really better. I thought maybe it had to do with the encoding techniques, the codec itself, could be anything. I hope that it is not truly as good as it gets for this product, because while the idea appeals to me very much, the current execution of it did not really.

I think the improvement was small but very apparent. Better contrast and blacks and a wider color gamut. really hard to judge anything under show conditions.

I think the improvement was small but very apparent. Better contrast and blacks and a wider color gamut. really hard to judge anything under show conditions.

True, and those things you mention have nothing to do with more bit rate... I wonder if the bit rate was higher at all for this demo.

The way this Video Giants is coming out in the next 6 months for sure is VIA Download thru servers whose software was written by Aspen Media Systems.

There I met with:

Paul McIntire pmcintire@aspenmediaproducts.com
Katherine Ryan kryan@musicgiants.com

There will be 4,500 downloadable tiltles, these 1080p tiltes will be 45mb DEEP COLOR HDMI 1.3. You also get a dvd copy and a digital copy to play on ipod evrytime you download. You can rent and purchase if you like or one or the other.

Regarding DCI content, aspen media has a server, Video Giants is actively looking to implement a separate DCI like content tier via secure key hard drive -1st Q 2009. The movies will be 500-1,000 and you can ionly watch them for a limited playing time. This monetary incentivizing of the studios I BUY. Bring it on.

I suggest you get in these peoples distribution list to get the facts straight in a consistent basis moving forward.

They say they have the capacity to deliver FULL DCI or watered down versions based on variable codecs. Not different masters.

Of the 4,500 titles she only confirmed the image entertainment library. These have all the Imax tiltles.

I told them that a little bird told me warner, universal, and paramount , they just smiled. So it is safe to assume those seem to be the studios for the downloaded content.


When you say the movies will be 500-1000, what exactly do you mean?

Anybody know the media format specs fot this beyond HD? Is the new standard even defined?

So this content can be downloaded and played back via a compatible PC, independent of EE?

How will Deep Color compare to the DCI gamut?

In any case, Deep Color is a standard that new HDMI 1.3 display devices should handle. DCI is not.

And what about audio? If there is no lossless audio ala Blu-Ray, then a major part of the experience will be inferior to a mass-market, consumer format.




The way this Video Giants is coming out in the next 6 months for sure is VIA Download thru servers whose software was written by Aspen Media Systems.

There I met with:

Paul McIntire pmcintire@aspenmediaproducts.com
Katherine Ryan kryan@musicgiants.com

There will be 4,500 downloadable tiltles, these 1080p tiltes will be 45mb DEEP COLOR HDMI 1.3. You also get a dvd copy and a digital copy to play on ipod evrytime you download. You can rent and purchase if you like or one or the other.

Regarding DCI content, aspen media has a server, Video Giants is actively looking to implement a separate DCI like content tier via secure key hard drive -1st Q 2009. The movies will be 500-1,000 and you can ionly watch them for a limited playing time. This monetary incentivizing of the studios I BUY. Bring it on.

I suggest you get in these peoples distribution list to get the facts straight in a consistent basis moving forward.

They say they have the capacity to deliver FULL DCI or watered down versions based on variable codecs. Not different masters.

Of the 4,500 titles she only confirmed the image entertainment library. These have all the Imax tiltles.

I told them that a little bird told me warner, universal, and paramount , they just smiled. So it is safe to assume those seem to be the studios for the downloaded content.

When you say the movies will be 500-1000, what exactly do you mean?

Dollars. To watch for 3-days day and date with the cinemas.

They're delivered on HDDs as far as I've read, no new format.

Oh OK I get it. Day and Date make a big difference. I do wish it was less. :(

So if they are charging that much, does that mean you get a license to charge for admission or show it in a public setting such as a church or school?

Also, when it comes to downloads, what about bandwidth restrictions that are imposed by almost every ISP in existence?

I mean, I could download a 50GB file in 7 to 8 hours, so a movie a day would be no problem, except my ISP would shut me down in no time.

Oh OK I get it. Day and Date make a big difference. I do wish it was less. :(

So if they are charging that much, does that mean you get a license to charge for admission or show it in a public setting such as a church or school?

You are joking right?

DENVER, CO — The Crestron ADMS (Adagio® Digital Media System) draws massive crowds at CEDIA 2008 booth #301. The ADMS is the only digital media system that can transfer and store multiple media libraries, search titles stored locally and on the Internet simultaneously, and playback a wide-range of media formats including DVD, Blu-ray, streaming media and digital content from Amazon.com, MusicGiants and VideoGiants. ADMS is recognized by CEDIA as the most significant new technology introduced this year and the 2008 Manufacturer's Excellence Award winner for Best New Technology.

The new Adagio Digital Media System (ADMS) consolidates various and disparate digital media into one brilliant solution, incorporating a high-definition multimedia server, online streaming media player, DVD or Blu-ray Disc player, and Web browser. Exclusive WorldSearch™ technology produces an aggregate listing for any media title in just click of a button. Crestron WorldSearch quickly searches the entire media library along with a multitude of online content providers. Results are displayed onscreen or on a touchpanel in an elegant graphical interface enabling intuitive selection for instant playback as streaming media, download, and even direct rental or purchase through the ADMS.

The ADMS brings the largest online video library into the home theater for immediate rental or purchase with Amazon Unbox and HD Media Store from VideoGiants. From the latest high-definition releases to the classics, the ADMS makes it easy to enjoy the best movies and concerts instantly.

ADMS provides the ability to select and play a DVD or high-definition Blu-ray Disc right from the front panel. The optional ADC-200BR 200-disc Blu-ray Changer provides seamless access to an entire DVD and Blu-ray Disc collection, and up to 5 changers can be added for an astounding 1000 disc storage capacity. All discs are added to the ADMS media library complete with metadata and cover art, so locating your movies is fast and easy.

The ADMS is also a feature-rich multi-zone music server, providing 2 independent stereo zone outputs in addition to the home theater surround sound outputs. New music can be seamlessly downloaded directly from MusicGiants. Web browsing completes the total solution, providing access to all your favorite Web sites right on your big screen display within the same intuitive graphical interface.

Two ADMS models are available. The base ADMS includes a standard DVD drive and 500GB internal RAID storage. The ADMS-BR features a Blu-ray Disc drive and 1TB RAID storage. All media is totally safe using RAID 1 technology, utilizing dual redundant hard drives to maintain two copies of your data for extreme reliability. Expanding system storage is easy with the addition of the CEN-NAS-4TB 4 Terabyte Network Attached Storage Appliance with RAID 5 support. The ADMS seamlessly extends storage across any number of Network Attached Storage units that are added to your system.

The ADMS provides a user experience like no other on the market today, integrating high definition video and audio, online movie rental and purchase, and a web experience direct to your home theater.

Also, when it comes to downloads, what about bandwidth restrictions that are imposed by almost every ISP in existence?

I mean, I could download a 50GB file in 7 to 8 hours, so a movie a day would be no problem, except my ISP would shut me down in no time.

Comcast just announced that they will be charging for 'overuseage'.

This system rocks...

This system rocks...

Cuantos Dinero?

Lots of it the server with the blue ray drive is11, the bd changer is 9 the 4 tera expansion Nas it's not nas I think it is DAS or something like that is 5.

But it's sexy.

Music ginats has a library of most sacd's and dvda's, I think that is sooo coool.

http://www.crestron.com/downloads/pdf/product_brochures/cedia_2008_new_products.pdf

my impression of the Beyond HD intro to the world was not a great one. No mention of it anywhere, if Alan had not talked about it, I doubt they would have had one visitor, as their booth was in the extreme far corner from the entrance. The guy manning the booth was kind enough, but seemed vaguely confused about what he was to be pitching... he seemed most interested in pitching his custom projector, and talked about the massive HDD box as something they were selling for completely non-HT related reasons (for like data or email storage)... this cake needs alot more baking in the oven before ANY hollywood studio gives them any rights to re-encode and distribute content.

What I understood, and I may very well have it wrong, is that the guy who invested in this Beyond HD is a single person who is also the owner or major investor in Video Giants and somehow Video Giants has some big juice with the studios. I never heard of Video Giants before, but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have influence.

my impression of the Beyond HD intro to the world was not a great one. No mention of it anywhere, if Alan had not talked about it, I doubt they would have had one visitor, as their booth was in the extreme far corner from the entrance. The guy manning the booth was kind enough, but seemed vaguely confused about what he was to be pitching... he seemed most interested in pitching his custom projector, and talked about the massive HDD box as something they were selling for completely non-HT related reasons (for like data or email storage)... this cake needs alot more baking in the oven before ANY hollywood studio gives them any rights to re-encode and distribute content.

What I understood, and I may very well have it wrong, is that the guy who invested in this Beyond HD is a single person who is also the owner or major investor in Video Giants and somehow Video Giants has some big juice with the studios. I never heard of Video Giants before, but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have influence.
VideoGiants. See this thread. This all has the potential to be amazing stuff, but there are so many vagaries right now it is hard to say exactly what any of the end products will be.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14624650#post14624650

that news about Video/MusicGiants doesn't indicate any special level of influence with Hollywood... certainly they are no Apple and I wonder just how they'll get bluray content within the first week window... wow. This should be interesting.

Well, the movies delivered day and date with theatrical releases will not be Blu-ray content. They will apparently be the same, or at least very similar DCI digital cinema files shown in commercial digital theater. If the licensing and copy protection issues are worked out, a high end home theater could simply have the same digital copy delivered to the door as the commercial theater, albeit an expiring copy.


that news about Video/MusicGiants doesn't indicate any special level of influence with Hollywood... certainly they are no Apple and I wonder just how they'll get bluray content within the first week window... wow. This should be interesting.

You are joking right?

Yeah mostly. The amount is pretty high as I imagine that all the ones I would like would be $1000.00 and it is only good for 3 days.

On the other hand it would be soooooo great to have the release be the same in my theater as in the big ones.

Well, the movies delivered day and date with theatrical releases will not be Blu-ray content. They will apparently be the same, or at least very similar DCI digital cinema files shown in commercial digital theater. If the licensing and copy protection issues are worked out, a high end home theater could simply have the same digital copy delivered to the door as the commercial theater, albeit an expiring copy.

no way, not from what I understand of DCI digital cinema spec, which are nominally JPEG2000 encoded at way higher resolution than any Bluray disc could dream about using h.263 or vc1. I got excited initially about having DCI spec movie content arriving within a narrow time window, but how can that be realistically? Let's say it's even DVD quality.. studios want every single viewer to be a ticket sale for weeks.... and this would allow the home theatre owner to invite like 5-10 people over to watch the latest ... I don't see that happening for a long long time.

no way, not from what I understand of DCI digital cinema spec, which are nominally JPEG2000 encoded at way higher resolution than any Bluray disc could dream about using h.263 or vc1. .
The resolution is higher but there are not worlds of difference due to resolution or compression. The most relevant difference is the color gamut and the > 8 bit data. Real significant differences concerning resolution require genuine 4K material.

Also, when it comes to downloads, what about bandwidth restrictions that are imposed by almost every ISP in existence?

I mean, I could download a 50GB file in 7 to 8 hours, so a movie a day would be no problem, except my ISP would shut me down in no time.

They will mail you a blue ray data disc (as in computer files). You'll load that into your media server and then unlock the movie with you authorization code. They could certainly mail out discs at movie release time and then your unlock code would arrive a few weeks later.

So while the latency of the an envelope isn't very good it has a heck of a lot of bandwidth. :)

From what I heard at the sim2 booth, content will arrive within a few weeks of when it's in the theaters, you'll be able to play it for a week or so, and then possibly after the movie starts being distributed for save on dvd you'll be able to pay more to unlock it again.

OK so it is 500-1000 for day date, but how much are titles after the Blu Ray or DVD is released? How much if you want a permanant license?

They will mail you a blue ray data disc (as in computer files). You'll load that into your media server and then unlock the movie with you authorization code. They could certainly mail out discs at movie release time and then your unlock code would arrive a few weeks later.

So while the latency of the an envelope isn't very good it has a heck of a lot of bandwidth. :)

From what I heard at the sim2 booth, content will arrive within a few weeks of when it's in the theaters, you'll be able to play it for a week or so, and then possibly after the movie starts being distributed for save on dvd you'll be able to pay more to unlock it again.

So 500-1000 and you only get it within a few weeks of release? :(

The resolution is higher but there are not worlds of difference due to resolution or compression. The most relevant difference is the color gamut and the > 8 bit data. Real significant differences concerning resolution require genuine 4K material.

I wonder about that. If we compare a blueray disc, take the best example/transfer, and compare that against that source data compressed wtih JPEG2000 without worrying about storage space, could the detail and motion be better? I would think it would be alot better.... you'd have 60 or 48 true I frames per second, and that suggests significantly better detail and a complete absence of compression of artifacts during high motion sequences.

$500-$1000 would put this product in the annual sales volume of like 100 units or less a year.

no way, not from what I understand of DCI digital cinema spec, which are nominally JPEG2000 encoded at way higher resolution than any Bluray disc could dream about using h.263 or vc1. I got excited initially about having DCI spec movie content arriving within a narrow time window, but how can that be realistically? Let's say it's even DVD quality.. studios want every single viewer to be a ticket sale for weeks.... and this would allow the home theatre owner to invite like 5-10 people over to watch the latest ... I don't see that happening for a long long time.

Yes way. Delivery is via hard disk. Or multiple BD-ROMS, not for playback, just for raw data transfer.

The encoding would not be at a way higher resolution that blu-ray. Encodings can and are done at 1080p resolution for commercial cinema. As stated above, the increased color gamut will be the biggest source of increased bandwidth.

You just stated the reason that it will cost 500 to 1000 and have a 3 day limited window. 1000 bucks accounts for what, approx. 125 ticket sales? It is more than enough money back to the studios to justify supplying a niche market, and because it will be such a small, niche market, will not cause any real problems to the theater chains.

cjfan, sort of plausible, but I bet $1 we won't see any such release window for true commecial cinema content for years. And if it is such a small niche market, then what's the point of starting this business? The unit volume will be the same as that for personal private jets, except with alot less ASP.

$500-$1000 would put this product in the annual sales volume of like 100 units or less a year.

Not that I know cost of the product but how did you come up with that number ?

Art

which number, the price of the volume?
the volume is my swag based on somebody elses swag of price.

The selection of MG HD Music is frankly pathetic.
Why to assume that the selection of HD Movies will be any better?

i think two things are being talked about here and mixed up. HD Giants, and Beyond HD.

It also seems that much of the prices, time frames, codecs, quality and Audio is pure speculation that is taking on an aura of fact.

cjfan, sort of plausible, but I bet $1 we won't see any such release window for true commecial cinema content for years. And if it is such a small niche market, then what's the point of starting this business? The unit volume will be the same as that for personal private jets, except with alot less ASP.

All I can tell you is that people in the industry say it is coming. As far as profitability, I guess they see something or they wouldn't be sending out press releases. My gut tells me that they see the DCI solution as just another option to close the sale. It isn't the only option or use of the server. The other 4,500 "better-than-HD" releases available in Deep Color at high bit rates will be the primary selling point, I would think.

which number, the price of the volume?
the volume is my swag based on somebody elses swag of price.

Yea ,how are you getting an estimate of the number of people who would buy ?

Art

Reliability of the drives is a concern .. If I'm understanding the guy at the booth there is no way to replace a bad drive it is a sealed unit Raid 6 and you could loose 2 harddrives but how do you replace them .. these drive are the same drives in your laptop thats what he told me...:)

All I can tell you is that people in the industry say it is coming. As far as profitability, I guess they see something or they wouldn't be sending out press releases. My gut tells me that they see the DCI solution as just another option to close the sale. It isn't the only option or use of the server. The other 4,500 "better-than-HD" releases available in Deep Color at high bit rates will be the primary selling point, I would think.


Well I work in the "industry" on the enginering side. My neighbor is a staff attorney for Universal. You have no clue as to the legal and licensing issues involved. The theater industry group, NATO, is not going to approve of this. Getting a personal copy on your doorstep of the next great blockbuster the day of theatrical release isn't going to happen. It's got nothing to do with copy protection either although be assured that would have to be foolproof as well. It's the licensing!

Furthermore I don't think many here have an idea of the costs involved in producing yet another content stream format. Meaning if it's not the BluRay image or the DCI image file, then a whole new encoding and authoring process must take place. I gotta tell you folks, even a $1000 per title isn't going to work for the highly niche market this service will service.

And back to copy protection issues, while the DCI spec is very robust, I don't think the MPAA is going to want DCI file sets out in the general public. They know no encryption scheme is foolproof and on way of keeping hackers at bay is not to let them get the encrypted content to play with in the first place. Just because DCI material is highly encrypted doesn't mean it lays around unsecured.

So am i to understand this is delivery of higher-bitrate 1080p content?

Not resolutions higher than that?

I wonder about that. If we compare a blueray disc, take the best example/transfer, and compare that against that source data compressed wtih JPEG2000 without worrying about storage space, could the detail and motion be better?
Yes, but not that much better. If the BD is top and already at 35-40 Mbit/s then using twice that does not help much with JPEG2000 due to the loss of compression efficiency by not using temporal redundancy. So you need to go even higher than that. Going from 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 also makes not a big difference since typical content does not have highly detailed and highly saturated textures. The main reason for softness in BD is softness in the masters themselves or filtering applied for BD mastering. The latter is likely the main reason we could see sharper material from beyond HD masters.

So am i to understand this is delivery of higher-bitrate 1080p content?

Not resolutions higher than that?

Not just higher bit rate but less compression,earlier release and DCI color space.

Art

Well I work in the "industry" on the enginering side. My neighbor is a staff attorney for Universal. You have no clue as to the legal and licensing issues involved. The theater industry group, NATO, is not going to approve of this. Getting a personal copy on your doorstep of the next great blockbuster the day of theatrical release isn't going to happen. It's got nothing to do with copy protection either although be assured that would have to be foolproof as well. It's the licensing!

Furthermore I don't think many here have an idea of the costs involved in producing yet another content stream format. Meaning if it's not the BluRay image or the DCI image file, then a whole new encoding and authoring process must take place. I gotta tell you folks, even a $1000 per title isn't going to work for the highly niche market this service will service.

And back to copy protection issues, while the DCI spec is very robust, I don't think the MPAA is going to want DCI file sets out in the general public. They know no encryption scheme is foolproof and on way of keeping hackers at bay is not to let them get the encrypted content to play with in the first place. Just because DCI material is highly encrypted doesn't mean it lays around unsecured.

This is also what I hear from the DC outfitting end. No way Nato will acquiesce.

I would agree with Glimmie's perspective. I just don't see anyway this is gonna happen... music videos, maybe. But real movies seen at commercial cinema, nahhh. I can see a Superbit version of BluRay that these guys might pull off, but the whole release window aspect sounds way way too good to be true, for all the reasons Glimmie outlined... best way to stop highway robbery is to not put the gold on the highway, regardless of perceived security.

mhafner - I said without regarding storage space... so if you could 10x or 100x the data rate by using all I frames, what could the video quality look like at 1080p. I'll bet that it would be noticeable. question for me is how much would the quality improve given the huge increase in storage requirements. Anyway, it's all theoretical, I don't think we're going to see true DCI data rate stuff in the home for years.

Yea ,how are you getting an estimate of the number of people who would buy ?

Art

it's a swag, and you know what s w and a stand for. g is for guess.

One more thing... it's kinda lame to announce something like this with very little follow up to what everyone knows are some big obvious questions that would deflate any initial excitement.

Furthermore I don't think many here have an idea of the costs involved in producing yet another content stream format. Meaning if it's not the BluRay image or the DCI image file, then a whole new encoding and authoring process must take place. I gotta tell you folks, even a $1000 per title isn't going to work for the highly niche market this service will service.

Not necessarily. The way I've understood this is they're basically just going to provide an audio/video file on some sort of storage medium. It's "relatively" trivial (especially if "high enough" bitrate limits are used) to convert it to the right codecs and containers. And also from what I understand, there would be no menus, or extras, which is surely where all the effort goes when creating a "typical" disc-based movie release.

But overall I agree with most here that the whole thing has a definite air of "too good to be true" to it. I mean who wouldn't want DCI quality at the same time as the theatrical release in the comfort of their home (probably better than-cinema).

Well, nobody, unless it's too expensive, doesn't actually happen.

Nothing is 'trivial' when it comes to this type of content. Creative people from the content owners have to review the work, this cost money. I'm with Glimmie, too much cost, too much politics, not a big enough niche.

The selection of MG HD Music is frankly pathetic.
Why to assume that the selection of HD Movies will be any better?

Because they said 4,500 titles that is nothing to sneeze at. Even though I am sneezing right now, something I caught from the Bland sponsored lap Dance.

Nothing is 'trivial' when it comes to this type of content. Creative people from the content owners have to review the work, this cost money.

But what I'm getting at is prepping content with this sort of delivery system/features is orders of magnitude less involved than say a Blu-ray or DVD release. No BD-J menus/features to verify/debug. No secondary audio streams to put together and get synced, no PIP streams. No extras to create assemble.

And especially if (as I think Alan suggested) these will basically be "processing free", no DNR, no EE, just from DCI master->different codecs. Of course it's not free, but combine all that, and the fact that the bandwidth ceilings are higher and there's no capacity limit, it can be a nearly automated process.

We're looking at a process much more like that to get a movie onto Xbox Live Marketplace or iTunes than Blu-ray or DVD.

Basically I'd be very surprised if the cost of the actual work to prepare the file is a significant barrier to this whole thing happening.

I'm with Glimmie, too much cost, too much politics, not a big enough niche.

But on balance I agree, I can see the licensing costs, and especially the politics being what would kill this dream.

Well I work in the "industry" on the enginering side. My neighbor is a staff attorney for Universal. You have no clue as to the legal and licensing issues involved. The theater industry group, NATO, is not going to approve of this. Getting a personal copy on your doorstep of the next great blockbuster the day of theatrical release isn't going to happen. It's got nothing to do with copy protection either although be assured that would have to be foolproof as well. It's the licensing!

Furthermore I don't think many here have an idea of the costs involved in producing yet another content stream format. Meaning if it's not the BluRay image or the DCI image file, then a whole new encoding and authoring process must take place. I gotta tell you folks, even a $1000 per title isn't going to work for the highly niche market this service will service.

And back to copy protection issues, while the DCI spec is very robust, I don't think the MPAA is going to want DCI file sets out in the general public. They know no encryption scheme is foolproof and on way of keeping hackers at bay is not to let them get the encrypted content to play with in the first place. Just because DCI material is highly encrypted doesn't mean it lays around unsecured.
i didn't claim to have a clue. Nor do I claim to be an expert on this. I am only rehashing what has already been posted on this forum, both in this thread, and others.

I am not sure where you got that I started these discussions, or am making this stuff up, as you seem to be implying. Perhaps you actual intent is less derogatory than your wording makes it appear. Intent often gets lost in text.

Again, I am just summarizing.

i didn't claim to have a clue. Nor do I claim to be an expert on this. I am only rehashing what has already been posted on this forum, both in this thread, and others.

I am not sure where you got that I started these discussions, or am making this stuff up, as you seem to be implying. Perhaps you actual intent is less derogatory than your wording makes it appear. Intent often gets lost in text.

Again, I am just summarizing.

My apologies. Yes, I was not directing this at you but rather the idea as a whole.

i didn't claim to have a clue. Nor do I claim to be an expert on this. I am only rehashing what has already been posted on this forum, both in this thread, and others.

I am not sure where you got that I started these discussions, or am making this stuff up, as you seem to be implying. Perhaps you actual intent is less derogatory than your wording makes it appear. Intent often gets lost in text.

Again, I am just summarizing.

The reality is that VERY little has been posted, but plenty has been inferred.

Because they said 4,500 titles that is nothing to sneeze at. .
Wanna bet there are no 4500 titles around with DCI quality data? 4500 is more like the number of all 1080p HD transfers of the last couple of years available to studios. Most of these are simply 1080p HD color gamut 10 bit masters. Better than Blu Ray but not substantially so. Especially, no DCI colors.

Fine , I'll take it.

As I said in another thread regarding 4K content ; I'd love to have it but the economic model seems difficult to imagine.

Art

Im going to close this down for few and ask please let it rest until a new thread with details and announcement soon to be made. Thank you!