Epson 1080p Home Cinema 6100 [Text View]

jrwhite

11-09-08, 12:17 PM

It's true that Epson tends to understate their maximum lumen output, however, the Panasonics tend to have higher lumen output in their better calibrated mode. In Germany, Epson is selling the new model lineup ( the HC6100 is the TW3800 over there ) with an external filter to correct colour at high lumen levels. They call the new line their 'Light Power Edition'. Unfortunatly, it seems Espon Germany is the only country that's selling the projectors with this filter.

Here's a translated cine4home article.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2F&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=de&tl=en

scroll down to the Epson TW3800 EH-Light Power Edition: The light gun for the living room? (http://209.85.171.104/translate_c?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.cine4home.de/news/TW3800/TW3800Preview.htm&usg=ALkJrhjb2JmBk8cAo-mcrDPTzWbSrJ7bxQ) article.

quote from the translation;

EH-TW3800 Light Power with the additional external filters to 1700Lumen with good color, even in Eco-mode, he is still a light cannon with about 1300Lumen.

Hopfully Epson, or some 3rd party, will make this filter available in North America. 1700 'pretty well calibrated' lumens sounds pretty tasty!

Jonathan

combatinfbadge

11-09-08, 03:34 PM

The thing is this not for a home setup. This is more to give someone the feeling of the size you get with projos. The lighting is really harsh and I was thinking the added brightness of the optoma would be more important than the rez for display purposes.

SF-1

11-16-08, 12:00 AM

Hey guys,

This is my first post and I would like to say thanks to AVS and it's members for providing great information and input regarding everything HT. I have been researching projectors for the past two years and finally decided to make the purchase. I tried the Epson HC720 last month(I couldn't refuse the offer), but returned it after reading all of the improvements Epson was incorporating into this year's new models(chassis, lamp, etc). The HC720 is a great projector and I wish the best to it's owners.

So now for the HC6100. I picked up the projector tonight from BB but I won't have it setup until tomorrow. FYI - if you're using the BB website to determine if a location in your area has the projector in-stock, then call the store(the website only shows in-stock quantity if that particular store has more than five units). I will provide some feedback following a decent amount of viewing time as well as a comparision to the HC720. Please also let me know if you guys need any questions answered or info confirmed about the projector.

Scott

stopdog

11-16-08, 07:15 PM

d james

11-16-08, 08:17 PM

georgeorwell

11-17-08, 06:41 PM

Nice video review of the 6100, and pretty educational as well.

http://vimeo.com/2036446

MirkoK

11-17-08, 08:50 PM

More funny than educational. Going from bragging about 2000:1 to ridiculing full on/off contrast numbers within minutes - what's going on in his head? The 6100 looks huge.

d james

11-17-08, 10:21 PM

More funny than educational. Going from bragging about 2000:1 to ridiculing full on/off contrast numbers within minutes - what's going on in his head? The 6100 looks huge. Thats what I was thinking. I was waiting for someone to ask if 800:1 is the human eye, why do we need to spend extra on 18000:1. I assume though the number is refering to the ANSI number. Those people didn't ask any questions, what a bunch of lameos, I would've been curious about many aspects of that new pj.

I wonder if having the crystals start off closed actually does something for the picture that is noticable, or if its a way to inflate contrast ratio

jienn

11-18-08, 08:30 AM

SF-1, I'm very interested to see how this projector performs, since I pre-ordered the tw3800 here in EU.

Is the PQ in lens-shift good? How does PJ compare to the higher end PJs? Is it worth the price?

Is it for sure a organic D7 panel? I don't think it has been confirmed yet.

William Mapstone

11-18-08, 11:41 AM

The Epson guy in the video seems to prefer ANSI over full on/off contrast measurements. Yet he only gives specs for full on/off....:confused::rolleyes:

Tumble

11-19-08, 11:54 PM

ochild3180

11-20-08, 10:04 AM

My dad has been bothering me over this projector (Epson HC6100) as he plans on purchasing it later this month. I have had little to no experience with projectors, and I was looking for help before he makes a purchase that may not fully satisfy him. Please keep in mind that he is not, nor ever will be, up-to-date on anything having to do with electronics. He would be the kind of customer that listens to each and every B&M salesman and take them for their word. So, I am trying to educate myself about this projector, so to be with him during the purchase. Here are my questions/worries:

1. He has crappy cable. He screws in a coaxial cable directly into his current HDTV (Sony KDS60A3000), and his service is horrible in regards to HD channel offerings (5 total HD channels). I have tried to get him to consider DISH or DIRECTV, but he won't pull the trigger. His local cable company has digital cable boxes, but in order to view HD channels the box has to be turned off. So, is there even anyway for him to watch HD Channels on this projector? The cable boxes have no HDMI, DVI, or VGA connections...

2. He wants to mount the projector 14 feet, or so from his wall and have a 100+ inch screen. How would the picture quality look for this? He paid for a CC firedog person to come out to quote him on a price and he told him that he could have a "stunning" 100-120" picture from a mounting distance of 14'. I have looked at other sites and their recommendations seem to contradict that statement. How far should his projector be from his screen to achieve a 100" without looking bad?

3. Sound problems: He has an Onkyo surround sound HTIB, but it’s a bit older and doesn't pass audio through HDMI. The firedog employee told him that it would do so, but I could not get it to go after connecting my PS3 for a test. I had to run an optical cable from the PS3. So, audio-wise, does anything have to connect to the projector? I don't see where this has an optical out anywhere. I'm assuming that I will just run audio from dvd/blu-ray/cable box to the receiver via optical and/or other cables (minus HDMI).

4. Projector quality: I know that this is a new projector, but how would you all rate the quality (potential) of the picture. I’m assuming that he expects it to have the same picture quality (HD wise) as his Sony SXRD rear projection – only at 100+ inches. Is this even feasible? Also, should he expect SD programming to look about the same as it does on his current HDTV?

Sorry to have written so much about this, but I don’t want him to make a mistake on this. And, also sorry if I post this in a wrong forum, but I am trying to get as much input as I can.

Thanks to any and all for your help - OC

Boggle

11-20-08, 10:45 AM

leonp

11-20-08, 10:56 AM

COncerning #1. It sounds like you have gone back in time 5 years :o. I have DirectTV, but had cable a year ago. I cannot believe his digital cable box doesn't have more than 5 channels, unless these are just locals and he only has the basic package. I also can't believe he must turn the box off to watch these channels. Sounds like you need the cable guy to come out and check out your box, but I suspect he is not doing something right.

To see HDTV, you must output via a component video, DVI, or HDMI cable. Every current projector will accept HDMI and component video. A true digital cable box will at least have a component video output.

2. The Firedog guy was right, here. I have my 4 yr old projector mounted 13' from my 100" screen. That distance will work for most projectors available now. For the Epson 6100, that should be a good distance.

3. Sound wise, nothing needs to connect to the projector. The video can get there with most any kind of video cable. The audio only needs to get as far as the receiver. This can be done with an optical cable.

4. If you can't get picture quality at least to HDTV level, I would not recommend a projector. I used to watch 480i TV when I first got my projector, but it was not a pleasant experience. I preferred a smaller image for lower quality signals.

I can't personally vouch for the Epson 6100, but I am considering getting it for myself. It is on my short list.

leonp

ochild3180

11-20-08, 11:11 AM

COncerning #1. It sounds like you have gone back in time 5 years :o. I have DirectTV, but had cable a year ago. I cannot believe his digital cable box doesn't have more than 5 channels, unless these are just locals and he only has the basic package. I also can't believe he must turn the box off to watch these channels. Sounds like you need the cable guy to come out and check out your box, but I suspect he is not doing something right.

His local cable company is a co-op that will not allow any other cable services to enter its area. I have DIRECTV, and have been begging him to upgrade to either Direct or Dish Network. He actually has no cable box at the moment. He has a coaxial cable screwed directly into his HDTV. He has the ol' standard of digital channels (SD), but only 5 or so HD channels. The customers with a set-top box are told that they have to turn it off in order to view HD channels. Anyways, you are correct in that they are way behind as far as cable service, although they have been claiming to be upgrading to a Fios-type of service next year (they have been promising hi that for 2+ years).

SF-1

11-20-08, 10:34 PM

Hey Guys,

My apologies for not responding sooner as my schedule has been incredibly busy. I will post a much more thorough update over the weekend but here are my initial impressions:

Image/Picture
There is a noticeable improvement over the HC720 regarding picture quality. The jump from 720P to 1080P is the most obvious to my eyes(seating distance is nine feet from 92in diagonal), but black levels, color depth and shadow detail are also superior.

Literature/Manuals
The HC6100/HC6500UB share the same owners manual so features for both projectors are listed.

Case/Chassis
The new case design is noticeably larger than the current version.

Noise Level
No issue and does not seem any better/worse than the HC720.

Scott

jienn

11-21-08, 07:40 AM

Thanks, nice to hear it's a good pj!

georgeorwell

11-21-08, 10:07 AM

I'll have my hands on one early next week to evaluate. I'll share my thoughts once I get it. Of course, I need to find somewhere to put this beast to test it.....my normal shelves won't accommodate it.

don851

11-21-08, 12:24 PM

I'm probably going to pick one of these up next week to replace my 5 year old pj. If you guys are ceiling mounting it, which mounts are you guys going with?

combatinfbadge

11-21-08, 06:24 PM

I put this one up on display today and it looked much better than the optoma that I tried out. To bad the lighting is so harsh. I can't really get a feel for how it performs.

SF-1

11-23-08, 08:00 PM

Hey Guys,

Well I have owned and operated this projector for the past week(30hrs) and will say that I am relatively pleased so far regarding it's performance. I have watched a variety of content both SD/HD to really evaluate the range of it's capabilities, so here are my impressions:

EQUIPMENT & ROOM SETUP
Motorola Dual Tuner DVR DCH3416 (Comcast) - HDMI OUT(1080i)
Sony DA3400ES Receiver - HDMI IN/HDMI OUT(1080i/p)
Epson HC6100 Projector - HDMI IN(1080i/p)
Room Light Control - 80%
Seating Distance - 9FT
Screen DIAG - 96IN
Wall Color - Brown

Since I don't own a screen yet, I am projecting onto a medium/neutral brown-colored wall. The projector is rear shelf-mounted with the lense centered to the image area(no lense shift required) and approximately 3FT from my couch. This projector does have a shorter throw than the HC720, which could only produce a 92IN screen diagonal from the same distance(max zoom). I am using a 3FT 24AWG HDMI cable from the DVR into the receiver and a 25FT 24AWG HDMI cable from the receiver to the projector. I do not have an HD-DVD or BD player yet, so all viewing is from the DVR. Viewing content for movies was Hitman and Transformers recorded in HD via CinemaxHD.

OWNERS MANUAL/LITERATURE
The manual is shared between the HC6100/6500UB but seems to be focused on the 6100 unless there is an attribute or feature specific to the 6500UB. For example, the 6100 has specific features such as motion detection and 2:2pulldown, while the 6500UB has frame interpolation and 4:4 pulldown. Both units use the new 200W lamp(despite the lower lumen rating), with the 6500UB weighing approximately 0.4lbs more and consuming an additional 16W in standard operating mode. The manual does not address whether either unit uses the organic or inorganic D7 panels.

BUILD QUALITY/CHASSIS
Overall build quality feels solid. This projector is definitely larger than the previous chassis, but I think it appears even more so due to it's generic square shape compared to the previous models' organic curvy design. The lamp access door is now located on top and the dust filter on the backside(below the cable connections) which is good news for those planning to ceiling mount. The menu/arrow buttons are also now located on the side(power/source buttons still on top).

IMAGE/PICTURE QUALITY
I have tried outputting both 1080i/p from the receiver into the projector and really could not see any difference. Sony uses a Faroujia processor/upscaler while Epson uses the PixelWorks processor so maybe they are evenly matched. I did notice an improvement from 720P to 1080P(pixel structure no longer visible) as my seating distance is only 9FT from the screen.The color mode naming convention remains unchanged from the HC720/1080, and I have not ventured beyond the factory presets(including lamp in high mode) except for lowering red offset/gain in the 'Natural' color mode. During my first viewing I did immediately notice improved color saturation and black levels, which I am guessing is due to the D5+ panels(HC720) versus the D7 panels and improved processing in the HC6100. Colors are vibrant and skin tones natural without appearing hard or fake(oversaturation). Motion handling is also improved over the HC720, which is especially evident during scenes from Transformers.

BLACK LEVELS
As stated above, I immediately noticed the improved black levels over the HC720 during my initial viewing(factory settings with iris off). There is a small improvement(depending on viewing content) with the iris turned on, but not as much as I would have expected. The iris does work seemlessly on the factory preset(normal), and you can set the speed for off/normal/fast pending your preference. The movie Hitman has many good scenes to test black level and shadow detail(specifically 47's black suit) and the 6100 performed well. The lepals and buttons from his suit were easily visible in dark and mixed scenes without the black level washing out too much or exibiting any crush. Overall I am content with the black levels, but(for example) when watching 4:3 content the sidebars are still a deep, deep grey which for me is somewhat distracting.

LUMEN OUPUT
I have mostly used the Natural color mode for night viewing as the Living Room and Dynamic modes are too bright. However, Living Room mode(with blue offset/gain turned down) is great for day viewing even with my room having southern exposure and blinds not completely closed. I will probably proceed with a high-contrast grey screen since my viewing size is under 100IN.

NOISE OUPUT
I did not notice any difference(fan noise) from the HC720, but this is usually a non-issue unless the projector is less than 3FT from your head and/or the scene is silent. However, the iris does seem to work more quietly which is a bonus.

BOTTOM LINE
I am happy with this projector in almost every aspect except for black level performance(just content). If the HC6500UB is definitely a step up with regard to black levels and the price is within $500.00, than I will probably make the switch despite sacrificing lumens. If not, than I may also entertain the PT-AE3000 based on the very positive reviews it has received and being superior(according to Art/Projector Reviews) to the Mitsubishi HC6500(comparable black levels to the HC6100).

QUESTIONS
A few questions for you guys:
1) What is the acceptable limit for image clarity(focus). For example(using Internet Explorer 7), I can focus the upper left menu pull-downs(File,Edit,etc.) to be perfect, but then the upper right menu pull-downs(Page,Tools,etc.) become slightly de-focused and vice-versa. I have since just focused text at the screen center to keep everything basically even, but is this normal?
2) How do I check for convergence?

EDIT:
HC6100 uses the PixelWorks processor per information(post #71) from georgeorwell(HQV Reon processor is exclusive to HC6500UB/7500UB).

Scott

stopdog

11-23-08, 11:15 PM

georgeorwell

11-24-08, 10:10 AM

Just found another review for this pj:

http://www.projector.com/reviews/epson/powerlitehomecinema6100.php

Speedoguy

11-24-08, 04:12 PM

Hi Scott , :)

Thanks for posting your comments/findings re this pj - was a bit surprised to read in your review that this includes the HQV-Reon-XV scaler, whereas our UK version of this model (TW3000) incorporates the 10-bit pixelworks scaler. :(

georgeorwell

11-24-08, 06:20 PM

That must be a mistake, the 6100 does not use the Reon scaler.

dahicks32218

11-24-08, 06:40 PM

The manual that is online states that it has HQV Reon-VX. Here is link it is on page 7. files.support.epson.com/pdf/plhc61/plhc61ug.pdf

neekos

11-25-08, 10:47 AM

That must be a mistake, the 6100 does not use the Reon scaler.

looks like a proprietary chip ?

msulinski

11-25-08, 03:09 PM

I went on Epson's website, and they only list the 6100. Is there any official information about the 6500 (UB) and other models? Does anyone know how much the 6500 is supposed to cost?

maxillo

11-25-08, 05:54 PM

Fragster

11-25-08, 06:32 PM

Does anybody what kinda panels the 6100 uses-inorganic or organic?

georgeorwell

11-25-08, 07:51 PM

Well, got one today to try out. Just to give you a scale of how large this pj is, I put it under an AX200. It's large, but not as large as I expected. A Mits 4900 wouldn't even fit on the shelf the 6100 is sitting on.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/georgeorwell84/CIMG5136.jpg

Box states, "Pixelworks ICs are used in this product."

I've only had a few minutes with it, but a few notes.

Pros:
*Very BRIGHT. Easily brighter than the AX200, IMO.
*Quiet. Even inches above my head, I could not hear the fan. With the iris off, you can't hear a sound from this thing.
*Out of the box colors are amazing.
*Iris adjustment is completely, visually undetectable.
*Great panel alignment.
*Nice lens adjustment.
*Easy remote and menu adjustment.

Con:
*Iris is very loud. Granted, it is right above my head, but I still rate it louder than the AX200. Ceiling mounted or higher shelf may not be an issue.

I should mention that I thought black level was OK with the iris working, not bad, not great, just OK. I eventually turned the iris off, and the black level improved, as well as shadow detail. For now, I will leave the iris off for the reasons mentioned.

More to follow......

neekos

11-25-08, 11:30 PM

very useful initial info. Please keep us informed.

buddahead

11-26-08, 08:07 AM

peteer01

11-26-08, 08:48 AM

What do people think about this projectorVery underwhelmed. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but that's my honest opinion. Especially the blacks. It's an obvious step down from the TW2000 (1080UB) based on seeing the two projectors side by side on display. Based on how bad the blacks looks on this, I didn't even bother trying to find a Z700 on display, I ruled out the organic D7 models altogether.
Looks decent. Looks like a step down model from the TW5000 being released overseas..The 6100 is being released overseas as the TW3000, the 6500 is being released in Europe as the TW5000 and in Japan as the TW4000.
I hope people aren't planning to buy this over the current 1080UB. I think with the recent price drop the 1080UB is still a better buy.Absolutely, I agree.
I believe all of the D6 and D7 panels are inorganic.All of the D6 panels are inorganic. The D7 panels last year were all inorganic. This year, there are new (120Hz) "D7/C2Fine" panels which are inorganic and "D7" panels which are organic, and found in the TW3000 and Z700.
Does anybody what kinda panels the 6100 uses-inorganic or organic?Organic. Which I presume plays a big part in why the blacks are worse than the 1080UB and TW2000.
That must be a mistake, the 6100 does not use the Reon scaler.That's correct. The manual .PDF file that's been floating around the AVS boards is for both the 6100 and 6500. Both have the Pixelworks chip, while the the 6500 has the HQV Reon-VX sxVX-200 by Silicon Optix as well. (According to some marketing materials I got for the TW4000.)

This is not a bad projector, but if the 1080UB is available for close to the same price, I'd go with that instead.

jienn

11-26-08, 05:44 PM

I would like to know how this compare to the Z700 from Sanyo. Supposedly they use the same D7 panels.

For me the step up to 1080UB or AE300 is $600.

Rgb

11-27-08, 08:06 AM

All of the D6 panels are inorganic. The D7 panels last year were all inorganic. This year, there are new (120Hz) "D7/C2Fine" panels which are inorganic and "D7" panels which are organic, and found in the TW3000 and Z700.
Organic. Which I presume plays a big part in why the blacks are worse than the 1080UB and TW2000.
That's correct. The manual .PDF file that's been floating around the AVS boards is for both the 6100 and 6500. Both have the Pixelworks chip, while the the 6500 has the HQV Reon-VX sxVX-200 by Silicon Optix as well. (According to some marketing materials I got for the TW4000.)

This is not a bad projector, but if the 1080UB is available for close to the same price, I'd go with that instead.

This review lists "C2Fine" for the 6100, doesn't help the site's credibility...

http://www.projector.com/reviews/epson/powerlitehomecinema6100.php

davyo

11-27-08, 03:01 PM

How does it compare to the ax200 please.Being that is now cost twice the price of a ax200.Is it twice as good.Thanks for any info:)

Yes,,, me too wants to know how the 6100 and the AX200 compare.

I currently have an Epson 720 and was thinking about getting a AX200 "again" since the AX200 prices are so cheap (I like having two projectors in case one suddenly breaks).

Anyhow, I was going to wait on getting a 1080p PJ,,, but if the 6100 totally blows away the AX200 I might re-think my plan.

Thanks much in advance,

Cheers
Davyo

SF-1

11-28-08, 06:35 PM

Scott - thanks for the review.

Not sure though how you can make any real judgements regarding black level and shadow detail projecting onto a brown wall. When you had the HC720 was it also projecting to the brown wall? Before I got a real screen for my Epson Powerlite 1080 I was shooting it on a light yellow wall and thought it looked pretty good. But when I got the screen wow what a huge difference. Would love to hear what you think after you get the screen.

stopdog,

The HC720 was also shooting on the brown wall, but between the two projectors the 6100 was better with blacks. I agree with your comments regarding picture quality improvement when using a good screen, which also has me spending much more time now in the screen forums. BTW - what screen did you choose and what factors played into your decision?

Scott

SF-1

11-28-08, 07:00 PM

That must be a mistake, the 6100 does not use the Reon scaler.

georgeorwell,

Thanks for posting that content breakdown list. I checked the box/packaging(no comments regarding processor type) and owner's manuel(HQV Reon/Page #7) but it appears you are correct. The manuel usually states the differences between the 6100/6500UB, but the processor designation must have been overlooked.

Scott

SF-1

11-28-08, 07:43 PM

Would someone venture to state their opinion.....

I am buying one of these PJ's. I think I am getting a good deal on both, and there will be an $800 difference between the 6100 and the HC720, which is considerable.

Between the two, I'm more concerned about black levels and color rendition vs the actual pixel resolution. My decision lies between getting the cheaper HC720 and upgrading it in 2 years to something 1080 with great black levels (the 6500ub or better will likely be going for under $1500), or getting the 6100 now and planning on not upgrading it in the future despite the fact that it probably cannot compete with the black and color rendition of the 6500ub. BTW, the 6500ub when released will likely be out of my budget.

I'll be using this in my living room with decent light control and projected onto a Grandview fixed 92 gray screen.

cheers

ps.....looking for comparisons of the 6100 to the 1080ub, but there are none to be found.
cheers

maxillo,

I have owned both projectors(HC720/6100 - though not concurrently) and the HC6100 definitely shows better blacks and shadow detail. Granted, this was projecting onto a neutral brown colored wall but the difference was noticeable. However, the HC720 is a great projector and your grey screen will definitely improve the black levels. But is the black level performance between these two projectors worth an additional $800-$900? IMO not really.

jienn

11-29-08, 07:26 PM

SF-1, you could order samples from different screens, white and gray. See what gives best blacks.

davyo

11-30-08, 12:33 AM

Well, got one today to try out. Just to give you a scale of how large this pj is, I put it under an AX200.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/georgeorwell84/CIMG5136.jpg

Hey George

Still wondering what your thoughts are on how the 6100 compares to the AX200 in terms of picture quality ONLY.

Im so on the fence between getting another AX200 or spending the extra money for the 6100 if the price difference is justified by a great increase in picture quality over the AX200.

Thanks much in advance George
Cheers
Davyo

georgeorwell

11-30-08, 10:54 AM

Sorry I haven't had a chance to respond, been gone for the holidays. However, I have since had a few more hours on this pj....The Dark Knight, Beowulf, and a lots of test scenes. I continue to remain impressed. Both of those are dark movies and I found shadow detail and blacks to be good. I have an HP screen, and usually I can dial back brightness to get better blacks, but so far I have stayed in the 0 to -5 range, and blacks still look good.

I think it's a little unfair to compare this to the AX200, because it's a 720p, and as noted, half the price. For my own purposes, I did do some testing sending the same signal to both and comparing, and definitely prefer the 6100. It's brighter, colors are more accurate, less visible pixels than even smoothscreen, better contrast, and completely quiet. If I were choosing between the two right now, I would definitely get the 6100 (keep in mind I'm a huge AX200 fan). Aside from having a better pic, there are price/return reasons I won't mention for obvious reasons.

Also, I did some more testing with the iris, and either this one is defective, or it's a bad design. I'll be interested to hear what others think, but I find it unusable due to the noise.

Finally, I did inquire to Epson about the scaler and they confirmed it is the Pixelworks. It does scale better than the AX200, but not as good as displays I've seen with the Reon. I really think the 6500 will be well worth the extra for scaler alone, not to mention all the other upgrades.

jienn

11-30-08, 03:29 PM

Is it true that this PJ has only 85% vertical lens shift (down) and 96.3% (up)? Source: http://www.visualapex.com/ProductSupport/Home-Cinema-6100.pdf

d james

11-30-08, 04:21 PM

When you mention about the scaler are you refering to SD and HD movies, or television. I was trying to decide if the move up to the Reon was worth it as well, but don't know a whole lot about it. What makes the Reon better, or should I say what does it do to the picture that makes it worth upgrading.

davyo

12-01-08, 08:27 AM

I think it's a little unfair to compare this to the AX200, because it's a 720p, and as noted, half the price. For my own purposes, I did do some testing sending the same signal to both and comparing, and definitely prefer the 6100. It's brighter, colors are more accurate, less visible pixels than even smoothscreen, better contrast, and completely quiet. If I were choosing between the two right now, I would definitely get the 6100 (keep in mind I'm a huge AX200 fan). Aside from having a better pic, there are price/return reasons I won't mention for obvious reasons.

While saying you prefer the 6100 over the AX200 how would you rate the jump in picture quality, (just a bit better or huge improvment or ??).

Im just so on the fence on getting the 6100.

I currently have the Epson 720 and used to own the AX200, very happy with both of them,,(thinking about getting another AX200 in light of the super low price these days).

I guess my main concern is how much better does the 6100 look than the AX200 for BluRay, as in, given the price difference between the two projectors is the picture quality that much better coming from the 6100 to justify making the jump for my BluRay viewing ?

Hope that made sense.

Thanks much in advance George.

Cheers
Davyo

peteer01

12-01-08, 10:27 AM

I was trying to decide if the move up to the Reon was worth it as well, but don't know a whole lot about it. What makes the Reon better, or should I say what does it do to the picture that makes it worth upgrading.http://www.siliconoptix.com/products/ReonVX/Features.cfm

If you're considering the 6500, consider it for the blacks. It is quite a visible improvement over the 6100, and is an extremely impressive projector. I'm not sure how much more it is, but with the AVS rebate, it can't be that much more than the 6100. (There's a announcement on that at the top of this forum and the $3K+ plus forum)

Ron Jones

12-01-08, 02:23 PM

What ceiling mounts are new Epson 6100 owners using?

Anyone using either of the (low cost) ceiling mount types from monoprice?

don851

12-05-08, 08:32 PM

Just purchased a 6100. I ordered the Sanus projector mount for it.

punahou80

12-05-08, 10:52 PM

Anyone using either of the (low cost) ceiling mount types from monoprice?

I have a PJ mount from monoprice. This one:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082803&p_id=3874&seq=1&format=2
The mounting bracket is slightly too small for my Mits HC6500. :mad:

PM me if you want it ($10 plus postage). It's $14.70 plus S&H on monoprice. It's actually a decent mount (rated to 22 lbs).

techsteveo

12-06-08, 09:53 AM

So are there any owners out there? I haven't seen any reviews on this forum which is surprising considering the price and the Projector.com review. I'd love to hear more about this machine.

techsteveo

12-06-08, 09:55 AM

Just purchased a 6100. I ordered the Sanus projector mount for it.

Don, what do you think of it so far? Have you used any other projectors you can compare it too?

Brad_Smith

12-06-08, 10:22 AM

I got the 6100 a week ago. I have not calibrated at all. Using a black widow "screen" the picture looks good. The black levels are good not great but I haven't really tested them yet. I'm using theatre2 mode which seems to work great in ambient light from 1 blinded window or 2 40 watt bulbs, and even better in the dark. Blu-rays look sharp and upconverted dvds from ps3 look fine I guess for a 92" screen sitting 11 ft away.

This is my first PJ and have only seen the sony vpl40 from magnolia to compare to. I think the lcos and dlp probably have a more film like picture. The leaked light on the edges though and this epson does not leak any light.

I really like all the setup options for the picture and the actual placement. It is easy to raise or lower on a shelf using the adjustable feet and the lens shift seems pretty generous.

Overall I am pleased with this PJ as the 6500 was out of my price range and the ambient light watchability (I know not a word) has surprised me.

muzz

12-06-08, 10:52 PM

This uses Organic panels?
Are we sure?

I have an issue with my AX100(blotch), which I THINK is attributed to Organic panels, and I'm NOT gonna have that problem on my new PJ that is for sure.

Lupin3

12-09-08, 08:30 AM

This uses Organic panels?
Are we sure?

I have an issue with my AX100(blotch), which I THINK is attributed to Organic panels, and I'm NOT gonna have that problem on my new PJ that is for sure.

I called Epson's projector tech support yesterday and they indicated that yes, the LCD panels are in fact organic.

I also noted that the box for my 6100 indicates that it uses "C2fine technology." Now that's just vague enough to imply that it actually uses C2fine panels, while leaving room for Epson to claim that its D7 panels are not C2fine, but share technology with it.

At any rate, I've not been able to find any conclusive evidence that the current organic D7 panels degrade in any meaningful way. (If they did, surely that would expose Epson and other manufacturers to a class action lawsuit? Just look at what happened to Apple with their supposedly irreplaceable iPod batteries...) Think I'll open another thread to discuss organic panels.

Kito

12-09-08, 08:56 AM

I went to the Epson web site and pulled up a pdf of their hc6100 product review. It states that it is a "3lcd,3 chip optical engine poly-silicon tft active matrix". Pardon my ignorance but does "poly-silicon" mean inorganic?

Lupin3

12-09-08, 09:00 AM

Let me offer some anecdotal evidence of the 6100's performance, based on my subjective evaluations thus far and not on any objective measurements.

After having suffered through quite an ordeal at a Big Box store in the hopes of obtaining a significant markdown on a Sony VW40, I finally purchased the 6100 instead. In retrospect, I'm glad I did. I'm glad not only because of the 2 year warranty (instead of Sony's 1 year) but because, as they used to say of hot rods, "there's no replacement for displacement" and the Epson's 1800 lumens will drive this pj to quite large screen sizes in all reasonable conditions.

Even some unreasonable ones. My screen right now is in excess of 127" diagonal, and is projected on a bare wall painted dark brown. In dynamic mode the screen is plenty bright, with white balanced at 6500k and brightness turned down a couple of notches. With the iris set to "fast," the black levels are quite good. I do notice the iris action between scenes, but never within a scene. As some have commented, the iris motor is audible but for me won't be an issue with even quiet audio.

While the black levels won't be scaring any RS2s or Kuro plasmas, I find they compete nicely with my friend's Samsung plasma. This is perhaps unsurprising, given the dark finish of the unimproved projection surface. But the white levels are more than adequate here, even with what I would consider a great deal of ambient light. Playing Valkyria Chronicles whose manga style of graphics is deliberately reminiscent of Miyazaki's masterwork "Nausicaa," emphasizing pale watercolor-like palettes, the screen never appears washed out or dim. Even projecting on such a poor surface, the 6100 has the horsepower to run the large-ish screen size and maintain an appealing image.

And this isn't the projector's brightest mode! Switching to Living Room ups the brightness even further, at the expense of balancing the white levels at 8500k. Normally this is far too cold for any kind of even semi-critical viewing, but the dark brown wall color actually balances this out a bit, making the colors look far more natural. In dark or even dim viewing conditions, the brown wall notwithstanding, I find myself wincing from the brightness. In dynamic mode, I find the image watchable (though not necessarily in critical mode) with significant ambient light: with kitchen florescent lights spilling into the living room theater, and dining room halogens reflecting off of cream colored back walls into the theater as well. This is enough light to read by, comfortably. In Living Room mode, however, all but direct lighting is easily handled.

Without having taken any measurements, a quick analysis of the 6100's projection of my MacBook Pro's display suggests that the color palette runs on the intense side, with colors generally oversaturated. My "testing" in this regard was limited primarily to Dynamic and Living Room modes, and color variation here is to be expected. However, even in these modes, viewing color intense films such as "300" appeared reasonably natural in my theater. There are, additionally, a number of available tweaks to control color, brightness, sharpness, and other aspects of the projected image. With something like 20 memory slots to save settings, tweakers have a lot to play with here.

Lastly, let me mention the remote. With direct access to all input modes, real back-lighting, and quickly navigable menu modes, I think most users will appreciate it as a superior remote for an entry-level 1080p pj.

tibbyjr

12-09-08, 02:06 PM

Does everybody turn the 6100 off with the power switch like it says in the manual,it is hard to reach when mounted on the ceiling.

don851

12-10-08, 03:11 AM

Don, what do you think of it so far? Have you used any other projectors you can compare it too?

Sorry, I'm upgrading from a 4.5 year old NEC LT260 and before that an NEC LT150 so not much of a comparison. It's like night and day. Haven't tweaked it yet. Out of the picture looks great with the "natural" color setting. Watched part of Dark Kight while setting it up and any buyers remorse I might of had went out the door. It's extremely quiet but very large. Easy setup, especially with the lens shift. The Sanus mount works great with it. The mounting points are pretty far apart. I had to use the 2 extensions that came with the mount. I don't think I'd feel comfortable using the 20 pound mounts on this one. In fact the seller included one of those mounts with the purchase and I'll be selling it to a friend.

davyo

12-10-08, 03:40 AM

Does everybody turn the 6100 off with the power switch like it says in the manual,it is hard to reach when mounted on the ceiling.

Please dont take this the wrong way and Im not trying to be rude in any way at all,,, but your question,,,,that was just way way funny.

I had this vision of everyone getting on ladders to turn off their projectors after an evening of viewing,,,,, sometimes I just think funny thoughts.

Anyhow, to answer your question,,,, ALL projectors can be turned off with the remote,,,, NO projectors require that you have to turn off the switch on the projector, at least none that I have ever heard of.

The only time the switch needs to be turned off is if your disconecting the power cord from a power supply.

Cheers
Davyo

Mark P

12-10-08, 07:32 AM

All I can compare this too is a 3 year old Digital Projections Mercury HD, I was really curious about 1080p and wasnt about to pay the big bucks yet again to find out the difference between 720P and 1080P.

If Im remembering right the Mercury HD had the best blacks money "could" buy in the day using its Dark Metal chips.

Long story short, I didnt try the Epson in the theater the Mercury HD is in because of the 35' throw to the screen, I will try this today. I took a brilliant white high threadcount sheet , folded it in half and threw it in the "office" where I have a mini theater for the nights the Kids want to hang out with their friends. The room is 14 x 14, Let me tell you I was blown away watching the Dark Knight, not sure what people are talking about with the black levels being inferior, I used it in Theater Dark Mode in a full white room, shooting on a stretched sheet and yes the Black Bars were noticable when it switched to 2.35:1 from the IMAX shots but if you're looking for blacklevels instead of watching movies and enjoying yourself, might be time to take a break from looking for problems which might not be there.

Im so interested now to find how the two stack up that I will probably spend the entire day trying to use the Epson on a real screen in the big theater ( not painted white) and AB the two side by side and see how $1700 stacks up against $30K

georgeorwell

12-10-08, 09:55 AM

Mark,
I agree, no one should get the impression that black levels are bad on this pj. They are not. Are they as good as the UB, probably not, but they are still good. I'm really enjoying this pj.

Mark P

12-10-08, 10:06 AM

Mark,
I agree, no one should get the impression that black levels are bad on this pj. They are not. Are they as good as the UB, probably not, but they are still good. I'm really enjoying this pj.I learned my lesson awhile back about " the latest, greatest" and how long they remain "great".

If this projector was available 2+ years ago when 720P 3 chippers were selling for $4500- infinity, Im pretty sure I would have taken the $1700 and been blown away watching " the Dark Knight" every bit as much or more than on the Mercury HD with its black velvet blacks. I remember 100K PJs that wouldnt stand a chance against this little jewel, its funny how a year or two makes everything come into focus. No pun intended

gprro1

12-10-08, 05:08 PM

Crazy question, I work for hhgregg and can get these for about $1400. Anything that comes to mind that might be better for mostly film based content and movies? I have an infocus in72 now, pixel mapped, (dark chip 2 dlp), I'm hoping the black level should be as good?

davyo

12-10-08, 05:34 PM

gprro1

12-10-08, 07:40 PM

unfortunately we're kind of limited to one item on employee purchases :)... you'de probably freak if you knew what i was getting a pany 50" thx plasma for too:eek:

tomes

12-11-08, 03:59 PM

can someone confirm that it lacks 1080p/24? I'm not entirely sure that it worries me to a great deal, but curious. It does seem to have a lot of other strengths, especially considering the price point.

I wish more reviews would come in. I did not get a whole lot of the detail I wanted from the one review I did find. (though it was VERY positive).

tomes

12-12-08, 11:47 AM

another question; can the 6100 do the necessary image processing so it works with an anamorphic lens? I would not plan on buying a lens initially, but down the road, it could be a good way to go. (I want 2.35:1 presented in the largest and best quality manner possible)

William Mapstone

12-12-08, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by tomes
I wish more reviews would come in. I did not get a whole lot of the detail I wanted from the one review I did find. (though it was VERY positive).
I am surprised some one at AVS hasn't done a quick review, as they have been selling this projector for over a month.

tomes

12-12-08, 02:56 PM

I am surprised some one at AVS hasn't done a quick review, as they have been selling this projector for over a month.

There's a pretty nice one on page 3 of this thread (I think), but again, it doesn't necessarily delve into the details I'm interested in, plus I'd like to see some comparisons to other 1080p projectors. (vs Sanyo z700,z3000, pana AE3000, Epson 6500UB, etc)

cdoo932

12-12-08, 10:55 PM

davyo

12-12-08, 11:18 PM

I am surprised some one at AVS hasn't done a quick review, as they have been selling this projector for over a month.

There are a few owner reviews/opinions on this thread but I agree,, for a projector that has been selling for as long as this one has there sure isnt many reviews on it.
And almost no reviews on the "getting released this week" Epson 6500UB.

I would love it if projectorcentral.com or projectorreviews.com did a shoot-out between the Epson 6100 and the 6500UB.

Cheers
Davyo

georgeorwell

12-13-08, 07:52 AM

Looks like almost everyone has lowered the price on this pj. Take advantage of the low price guarantee if you purchased from a vendor that has that program.

stsrep

12-13-08, 08:17 AM

Please advise as to who has reduced the price on this if possible.

William Mapstone

12-14-08, 09:33 AM

Since the 6100 and 6500 have different LCD panels, I wonder how much of a difference there is in the native contrast ratio?

msulinski

12-14-08, 11:09 AM

I am still waiting on a definitive answer to whether or not this projector supports 1080p/24. If not, I will not buy it.

On Epson's website, they never explicity state that it supports this mode like they do with the older models, but I thought that this snippet of the user manual was interesting (from page 39 in the Picture Quality Settings section):

2-2 Pull-down (Home Cinema 6100 only)
...
Note: This setting can be used only when viewing 1080p/24Hz signal input through the Component, HDMI1, or HDMI2 ports
...
This setting allows you to select whether images are projected with 2-2 pulldown detection or 2-3 pulldown detection.

The link to the manual: http://files.support.epson.com/pdf/plhc61/plhc6100ug.pdf

SkiAlready

12-14-08, 01:14 PM

There are a few owner reviews/opinions on this thread but I agree,, for a projector that has been selling for as long as this one has there sure isnt many reviews on it.
And almost no reviews on the "getting released this week" Epson 6500UB.

I would love it if projectorcentral.com or projectorreviews.com did a shoot-out between the Epson 6100 and the 6500UB.

Cheers
Davyo

I would like to have seen that, as well. But on projectorreviews.com, Art states that he hasn't even received the Epson's yet. What is their issue? The 6100 has been out for a month and the 6500 UB's are releasing this week. Why wouldn't they have wanted to get some reviews out there if it is going to beat the Sanyo and Panasonic models?
I've still got my 6500 UB preordered based on last year's 1080 UB rating, but would've liked to see some reviews before committing... oh well, should be great anyway.

Wazzey

12-16-08, 07:32 PM

I am still waiting on a definitive answer to whether or not this projector supports 1080p/24. If not, I will not buy it.

I have the samsung bdup5000 and it seems to be working fine with it in 24fs. I went into the menu for the player and hit the option to turn on 24fs and it plays the material. I just got this projector today.

My first impressions are that it sure is bright enough. I am coming from an optoma hd70 with a slightly grey screen. My configuration is 17' on a 123" painted wall. From this distance the optoma has always been to dimm for my setup. I was going to wait for the 6500ub but was finding it hard to justify the extra $$.

I haven't done much but flip a few different movies and xbox screens and mess with the different modes. Without any calibrations I think it looks ok, much better than what I had but mainly the brightness combined with pretty good colors is what has made me initially happy. I hope I can get it to look even better.

I know thats not much but I'll try and give you more impressions later.

I wish I would have had the foresight to make my projector area bigger than what it is. Stupid me. I have a couple supports on the back side of the soffit area in the drop ceiling where I have it. I'm gonna have to rebuild that area so this silly thing fits. It is huge but I knew that going into it.

So, my main reason for buying was lower cost combined with want/need for more brightness. I can make my whole area completely dark but I wanted some options on being able to dial something in. I don't think I will regret not paying the extra money for the 65ub unless I saw them side by side.

I'll try and put some more observations up later. I won't have a lot of "wow this is the best thing since sliced bread" or anything like that. I'm sure there are gonna be drawbacks with a lower cost machine. Especially the not having creative frame interpolation with support up to 120hz like the new Sanyo.

Buying projectors is kinda like a lefty buying golf clubs, you just gotta purchase it to see if you like it or not because there aren't a lot of lefty clubs to try laying around in the golf shop.

Melbury

12-17-08, 12:55 AM

davyo

12-17-08, 02:04 AM

A few days ago I received my TW-3000 = 6100 I think.
In my opinion a very good image and it seems 24p works fine.
(Short test with PS3 and Planet Earth Blu-ray)
Sadly the Epson is in his box again and I have to send it back.
The fan was very annoying, not a 'clean' airflow sound but a high tone that varies in volume.
Even in the cinema black modes. I hope it is a only a problem with this unit.
Does more people have this problem with the 3000/6100 ?
(sorry my english is not perfect) :-)

How many hours do you have on your TW-3000 ?????

Im asking because I just got my 6100 yesterday and for the first 4 or 5 hours I had the same high tone noise but it went away and the fan is quite now.

If you only have a few hours on the projector you might want to run it a bit more to see if the high airflow sound goes away,,,,,, mine did.

Cheers
Davyo

Melbury

12-17-08, 04:26 AM

How many hours do you have on your TW-3000 ?????

I think about 4 hours. In the 4 hours the noise did not change at all.
But thanks for the hint, maybe I will give it a few hours more before I return the pj.

davyo

12-17-08, 06:02 AM

I think about 4 hours. In the 4 hours the noise did not change at all.
But thanks for the hint, maybe I will give it a few hours more before I return the pj.

You might want to call or email Epson customer service as well and see what they have to say before returning the PJ.

Cheers
Davyo

d james

12-17-08, 06:34 AM

I have the samsung bdup5000 and it seems to be working fine with it in 24fs. I went into the menu for the player and hit the option to turn on 24fs and it plays the material. I just got this projector today.

My first impressions are that it sure is bright enough. I am coming from an optoma hd70 with a slightly grey screen. My configuration is 17' on a 123" painted wall. From this distance the optoma has always been to dimm for my setup. I was going to wait for the 6500ub but was finding it hard to justify the extra $$.

I haven't done much but flip a few different movies and xbox screens and mess with the different modes. Without any calibrations I think it looks ok, much better than what I had but mainly the brightness combined with pretty good colors is what has made me initially happy. I hope I can get it to look even better.

I know thats not much but I'll try and give you more impressions later.

I wish I would have had the foresight to make my projector area bigger than what it is. Stupid me. I have a couple supports on the back side of the soffit area in the drop ceiling where I have it. I'm gonna have to rebuild that area so this silly thing fits. It is huge but I knew that going into it.

So, my main reason for buying was lower cost combined with want/need for more brightness. I can make my whole area completely dark but I wanted some options on being able to dial something in. I don't think I will regret not paying the extra money for the 65ub unless I saw them side by side.

I'll try and put some more observations up later. I won't have a lot of "wow this is the best thing since sliced bread" or anything like that. I'm sure there are gonna be drawbacks with a lower cost machine. Especially the not having creative frame interpolation with support up to 120hz like the new Sanyo.

Buying projectors is kinda like a lefty buying golf clubs, you just gotta purchase it to see if you like it or not because there aren't a lot of lefty clubs to try laying around in the golf shop.
Aside from the brightness, was the upgrade worth it? I've got the hd70 and its too dim for my tastes, it does good, but for my 135 at 19ft things could be better. I find the hd70 puts out a good picture, so I often wonder if I am crazy for upgrading. How would you compare the blacks to your old pj?

Melbury

12-17-08, 07:58 AM

You might want to call or email Epson customer service as well and see what they have to say before returning the PJ.

I did. It is possible to send th pj to Epson for a repair.
But that's not my intention, the pj is a only few days old.
I contacted the shop and asked for a replacemant or my money back.
I did not receive an answer yet.

Wazzey

12-17-08, 09:32 AM

Aside from the brightness, was the upgrade worth it? I've got the hd70 and its too dim for my tastes, it does good, but for my 135 at 19ft things could be better. I find the hd70 puts out a good picture, so I often wonder if I am crazy for upgrading. How would you compare the blacks to your old pj?

Your setup looks about like mine. Difference might be the screen. I used to have a designer white screen that was brighter but since then I've switched to a lighter version of a DIY paint called black widow, slightly grey screen. I've been watching dimm stuff for so long I guess I never knew what I was missing. Last night while watching different movies and sports I kept going back to the "living room" setting which is one down from dynamic. The more I watched different movies the more I enjoyed the look of the brighter settings. You actually get an LCD/plasma punch/look with this projector. What is making me happy, that I never seemed to have from my distance with the HD70, is that when you put it on bright, it is still very colorful. With the optoma that wasn't the case, everything would seem washed out with no colors. I thought I had color with the other but NOW I have color even at the brighter settings and for some of the movies I was preferring this setting.

If you are worried about the blacks and have the extra money to blow, you might want to wait and see what the UB does when it gets some reviews. Right now I couldn't be happier though. You can tell on dark scenes that it is a little lighter than it probably could be but it still looks pretty good to me and I haven't messed with the settings yet. Everybodys tastes are different and, like I said, I've been wathcing dimm stuff for so long I'm enjoying watching bright stuff. At least with this projector you have a choice.

Find an outlet that will let you take it back after so many days. I bought mine locally and got it for what BB has for its sale price that is going on right now but of course I had to pay tax so it comes to about what I've seen it for on the websites. I would have gotten it on one of the local advertisers of AVS but this local place had it in stock and would take it back up to 7 days if I didn't like it. With the price that the 1080ub has stayed, even as they have discontinued it, I didn't think the price of the 6500ub would come down to this level even when it is being discontinued either. Thats another reason I got this one.

Another good thing about the brighness, xbox play and sports. My kids are playing right now, 2 hour school delay for ice, and I get up amazed at how bright it is. I can turn on all the surrounding lights and still get a good picture. I watched some taped football last night and didn't see any of the "pixelation" that I used to get. Now, this wasn't live so I'm not sure if it has taken care of that or not totally but for what I saw on NFL channel it didn't have it.

Hope it helps.

mastermaybe

12-17-08, 11:20 AM

Your setup looks about like mine. Difference might be the screen. I used to have a designer white screen that was brighter but since then I've switched to a lighter version of a DIY paint called black widow, slightly grey screen. I've been watching dimm stuff for so long I guess I never knew what I was missing. Last night while watching different movies and sports I kept going back to the "living room" setting which is one down from dynamic. The more I watched different movies the more I enjoyed the look of the brighter settings. You actually get an LCD/plasma punch/look with this projector. What is making me happy, that I never seemed to have from my distance with the HD70, is that when you put it on bright, it is still very colorful. With the optoma that wasn't the case, everything would seem washed out with no colors. I thought I had color with the other but NOW I have color even at the brighter settings and for some of the movies I was preferring this setting.

If you are worried about the blacks and have the extra money to blow, you might want to wait and see what the UB does when it gets some reviews. Right now I couldn't be happier though. You can tell on dark scenes that it is a little lighter than it probably could be but it still looks pretty good to me and I haven't messed with the settings yet. Everybodys tastes are different and, like I said, I've been wathcing dimm stuff for so long I'm enjoying watching bright stuff. At least with this projector you have a choice.

Find an outlet that will let you take it back after so many days. I bought mine locally and got it for what BB has for its sale price that is going on right now but of course I had to pay tax so it comes to about what I've seen it for on the websites. I would have gotten it on one of the local advertisers of AVS but this local place had it in stock and would take it back up to 7 days if I didn't like it. With the price that the 1080ub has stayed, even as they have discontinued it, I didn't think the price of the 6500ub would come down to this level even when it is being discontinued either. Thats another reason I got this one.

Another good thing about the brighness, xbox play and sports. My kids are playing right now, 2 hour school delay for ice, and I get up amazed at how bright it is. I can turn on all the surrounding lights and still get a good picture. I watched some taped football last night and didn't see any of the "pixelation" that I used to get. Now, this wasn't live so I'm not sure if it has taken care of that or not totally but for what I saw on NFL channel it didn't have it.

Hope it helps.

Very very helpful info here indeed, so thanks. I probably have a projector's worst nightmare in my living room: a 7X5 bay window, flanked by TWO 2X5 windows, and a 30 yr-old fiance, whose low-light vision seems to resemble that of a 90 yr-old with sunglasses- thus, the application of about 700 watts of lamp-light.

All that aside, I WILL get a projector come hell or high water. I already have a great 46" XBR4, and I plan to mount a motorized screen right in front of it. Adding a great PJ just seems to make more sense than spending $2k+ on a new 52"/50" LCD/PLASMA...I can add this monster WITH a screen, TWICE the size, at about the same price.

I can easily darken the aforementioned windows with blinds and probably get her down to just ONE reading lamp. I REALLY want this projector, but I was fearing its 1800 lumens would not be sufficient for my app. Now, I'm a little more optimistic after your "bright hype" ;).

Either way, I'm probably looking at at "just" a 92" screen with the PJ throwing from about 12-14'. Viewers will be about 10-12' away. Can someone speak to the "do-ability" of these numbers?

Thanks!
James

Wazzey

12-17-08, 12:12 PM

Either way, I'm probably looking at at "just" a 92" screen with the PJ throwing from about 12-14'. Viewers will be about 10-12' away. Can someone speak to the "do-ability" of these numbers?

Thanks!
James

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_Home_Cinema_6100-projection-calculator-pro.htm

The numbers work but you might want to ask the screen forum what you should get from that close and that size screen. Your eyeballs my burn out of their sockets. According to the projector central site that is 27fl on a 1.0gain screen from 12 ft throw down to 24fl from a 14' throw.

my setup on their calc is at 14fl from my throw. Now I don't know what setting they take their calcs from but I don't think you will have any problems with it not being bright enough but I have never seen that size with that many lumens before. I'm sure someone has some experience with it.

Bud8Chevy

12-17-08, 09:43 PM

Has anyone ordered spare lamps for the 6100? I just picked this baby up last week at Bestbuy and want a spare.

Visualapex has them but the numbers do not match my manual. They have the V13H010L41 listed for the HC6100 and the V13H010L49 listed for the HC6500UB. My manual says the lamp is a V13H010L49 / ELPLP49.

Anyone know the difference between the 41/49 besides the 30 watts? I mean physically.

emerBR

12-18-08, 12:18 PM

Hi,

I found a preview of the HC6100 on a german site: Cine4home.de (look for the preview of the epson TW3800 and process it through the google translator).

Hope it will help those who did not take a decision yet.

all the best

tomes

12-18-08, 02:53 PM

Anyone know which screen-route would be better to go for me, either Wilsonart DW, or BOC? I know Wilsonart will have a higher gain. My situation is as follows:

I hope to be purchasing a 6100 shortly (my old tv broke, and I'm working on convincing the wife now, haha). I will have it in the basement, VERY light controlled (no windows or lights on. Walls will not be black, but at least they will be some shade of "brown", like Camel).

The image size will be 122.8" (diagonal) in 2:35 (zoomed), but to get that I basically have to do 130" (diagonal) in 16:9 format. I will zoom back out for 16:9 material, landing at around 98" (diagonal) in that mode. Throw distance will be somewhere in the 18-20' range. (I'm physically restricted to a 4' image height due to somewhat low ceilings...)

I like the price and construction process of a BOC screen more than the Wilsonart, but I'm not sure if the extra gain will be required to drive such a large picture (in my opinion it is large, coming from 58" widescreeen tv, haha)

Thanks!

EDIT: Punched in the numbers in projectorcentralcalc - and got "recommended brightness" up to 19'8" throw distance for the 130" size. (12 fL). For the smaller size, i get 18fL. This all sounds dandy I suppose (assuming the BOC is indeed 1.0 gain...) but I'd like some real world opinions! :)

Fragster

12-18-08, 02:56 PM

So whats the official word on this panel.....organic or inorganic?

This would be the major deal-breaker for me.......

georgeorwell

12-18-08, 08:30 PM

So whats the official word on this panel.....organic or inorganic?

This would be the major deal-breaker for me.......

Post #101.....organic.

Wazzey

12-19-08, 12:32 AM

... kinda went nuts tonight with the new projector.
Disclosure: I know nothing about cameras. On mine, Olympus C-765 I put it on night mode and modified a setting, not sure what it is, which lets in more or less light, i think. I messed with this back and forth from -1 to +1 until I got what I thought was about as close as it looked to me in person, which still wasn't perfect but pretty close. Anyhoo.. in dark scenes I set it to -.7 and in bright scenes I put it on +.7 If I had it in the plus range on dark scenes it would look way to washed out and if I had it on the minus range it would look way too dark. So here are some pics... I took a lot without a tripod and got a lot of blurry ones... here are a few that I liked.

Screen 123" black widow painted drywall.
black widow was modified in my situation with more behr UW because my old projector didn't have the lumens to my liking with the original BW so I lightened it up a bit.

Projector Epson 6100 in "living room" mode.... just down from its dynamic setting. I've only had this for a few days and am enjoying this setting for just about everything. I haven't seen anything in so long with "LCD/PLASMA PUNCH" , so I've been using this for the time being. I still get good colors with this setting on this screen, they are by no means washed out. Room is almost completly dark. I have made no changes to the default settings on the projector.

Ok, enough of my blabbering.

http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/AVS/screenshots/1/1.jpg

This is a good example of me not getting the camera setting just right. If you look at the bright bar, you don't see any detail around the bottom of the glasses by the bartender in the screenie. If you look at it in person there is plenty of detail there and you can make everything out.
http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/AVS/screenshots/1/2.jpg

http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/AVS/screenshots/1/3.jpg

http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/AVS/screenshots/1/4.jpg

I watched this movie the first time with the Optoma HD70 and never realized how different colors were. First thing I noticed when watching the Jones with this projector was how different the shades of green were in their uniforms.
http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/AVS/screenshots/1/5.jpg

How did this pic get in there.
http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/AVS/screenshots/1/6.jpg

I liked the way the colors came out in this scene even in the dark.
http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/AVS/screenshots/1/7.jpg

http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/AVS/screenshots/1/11.jpg

I tried to judge the right setting on these dark scenes by how light/dark the area on the far left and right ended up being after changing the settings, this was the closest that I think I could get to what it actually looked like in person.
http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/AVS/screenshots/1/22.jpg

http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/AVS/screenshots/1/33.jpg

http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/AVS/screenshots/1/44.jpg

My camera died... got one of those that have special batteries.... never will get one like that again.... double AA all the way.

Good luck to all of you making a decision about your projector buys. Hope these help and I'll probably be putting more up in different modes. i.e. theater, theater black
But I'm enjoying this setting so much I haven't had time to mess with much yet.

davyo

12-19-08, 04:57 AM

Nice screen shots Wazzey,,very cool.

I will have to post some more shots from my 6100 as well.

Very Very happy with my 6100.

Cheers
Davyo

Mark P

12-19-08, 09:05 AM

BigTex71

12-19-08, 09:56 AM

I am seriously thinking about purchasing the Epson 6100. I am thinking I may need to change the paint for my screen, though. Please let me know what you think. Here is my current setup:

I have an Infocus 4805 ceiling mounted about 12' from the screen, projecting a 102" 16:9 image on a Behr UW-painted wall. It is in a dedicated media room (no windows) and currently have a light tan paint on the walls and ceiling. The current seating is about 13' from the screen, but when we get more than 3 in there, some sit about 9' or so from the screen (bad screen door effect with the 4805 at that distance.)

In this setup I get a good picture with the lights off. With any added lights, it starts to wash out quickly. Will this Epson 6100 produce a brighter image? According to the specs it should be a lot brighter and even allow for some low lights with no washing out. If it is a lot brighter, should I go with a gray color for the screen instead of the UW to improve my blacks?

I am also planning on painting the walls and ceiling a darker color. Maybe a midnight blue ceiling and some form of dark brown walls or a burgundy with textured black on ceiling and walls. Any suggestions or ideas- or links to pics of good color schemes?

Something else I thought was weird with my current setup- the 4805 is a 480p projector (DVD-native resolution), so why is it that a 720p or 1080i source (HD channels and Popcorn Hour) looks so much better than the native 480p of the DVD? I understand if it was a 720p or 1080 projector, but the projector maxes out at 480p. I understand why the 1080i upconversion of the DVD on my player would look the same as 480p resolution (due to the max resolution of the projector), but that doesn't explain the better look (sharpness, I guess) of the HD channels and 720 and 1080 stream from my Popcorn Hour. That is strange to me.

tomes

12-19-08, 11:40 AM

Ill tell ya right here and now that the SmX, Shearweave 4500, stuff is amazing, it will help your black levels tremedously! you can also stick your speakers behind it allowing you to make your screen bigger if needed.

When hanging speaker grille cloth behind it , the millions of black holes seem to add black to the picture in a way to add pure black too the screen making the colors pop off the screen, the gain is 1.

PM me if ya want, I have tried many many screens

Thanks for your input! I read about it briefly, and it was interesting to get the note about black levels. Hiding the speakers and also placing them more appropriately (for sound location) sounds good. It would also bring the screen a bit closer, alllowing for more light output from pj, but conversely: With a screen flush to the wall, I'm currently at 9 feet viewing distance. My speakers are relatively large bookshelf ones (that cannot be placed flush to the wall due to having rear ports). That means realistically the screen would have to be hung, at a viewing distance of about 7 feet. I would be a bit concerned about being able to seeing the holes at 9 feet, and even more so at 7. Plus I would have a distance/size ratio of significantly less than 1. (The screen is going to be 9.5 wide). Also, people would be able to look behind the screen and see the speakers anyway since it would be open from the sides, unless you have a great solution for that :)

Any further input/putting my concerns to rest would be great :) In principle I think it sounds like a great solution :)

EDIT: You have an INCREDIBLE theater going on! A bit more real-estate than what I have to work with though :) My room dimensions are roughly 20' x 13', with height in front and back of 7', and in the middle, across is a built in duct, that lowers the ceiling in the middle to about 6.5'. I currently have an rptv that sticks out about 3'+ in front, so in that sense, if I could come up with something clever and not be distracted by the holes in the screen, I'd be open to doing so.

Mark P

12-19-08, 12:16 PM

Wazzey

12-19-08, 12:23 PM

I am seriously thinking about purchasing the Epson 6100. I am thinking I may need to change the paint for my screen, though. Please let me know what you think.

I would say the first thing if you are gonna buy a projector anyway is just to see how you like it with your current setup, then maybe make some changes if you don't like it.

In this setup I get a good picture with the lights off. With any added lights, it starts to wash out quickly. Will this Epson 6100 produce a brighter image? According to the specs it should be a lot brighter and even allow for some low lights with no washing out. If it is a lot brighter, should I go with a gray color for the screen instead of the UW to improve my blacks?

I'm enjoying the pic in the light and the dark. I see very little washout factor even with a lot of light on, and mine is at 17' back. I'll try and get some pics up with more ambient light. You might wanna check with the screen area for better answers but my painted screen is using the black widow DIY mix. Easily referenced in the diy section. I lightened up my mix a little because of my previous projector being too dimm. Point being, mine is a gray screen but not sure how gray.

I am also planning on painting the walls and ceiling a darker color. Maybe a midnight blue ceiling and some form of dark brown walls or a burgundy with textured black on ceiling and walls. Any suggestions or ideas- or links to pics of good color schemes?

Wife makes those decisions for me.

tomes

12-19-08, 02:32 PM

Im doing another theater now, the basement is 32X38 with a stair well smack in the the middle leaving me a 16x32 one way and a 10x38 the other. Im playing around with the first 90 degree theater Ive seen. In other words Im toying with the screen in the corner and slightly curved, if it works its going to be a crazy design.

Regardless I have the luxury of going inwalls this time and doing it, I tested a set of B&W inwalls and was amazed at the sound, this is definately the way Im going this time around. In your case are your speakers front ported, rear ported? You can build a really cheap screen wall or get a motorized version or build your own. That or have SmX or whatever just build one. Im having SmX do the main theater as of now because their masking system is amazing sounding/looking from what I can tell but I think theyre developing a new screen material so I'll wait for that and may still go the old SmX screen anyway because I have tested it in the larger theater.

I think you can stick the SmXish type stuff right up against your speakers ( 1") so I dont know what to tell ya........I love the stuff and its going in multi million dollar theaters all over the world. PM me and I can give ya my number if you want to call me and talk about my findings.

SmX sounds awesome, though it will probably be outside my budget. The Shearweave is definitely doable though. The speakers are rear ported and I'm really happy with them so I probably won't change them for a while. I do have a fake window on the wall where the screen is going up, so a possibility is to just keep the center behind the screen, in front of that "opening" (it's about a foot deep, so if it doesn't affect sound negatively, it may be ok to keep it there, and not have the screen protrude so much.) I really appreciate your ideas, and may ask you for more details - you really have me thinking about how the whole front of the room should be set up though.. :)

Would you believe, that when we were looking at houses, my only requirement was a decent basement for home theatre, and this was the closest I came to find something acceptable after looking at about 40 houses? Most houses in the area either did not have finished basements (and I was not prepared to take on THAT project..), or finished into a bunch of small rooms/having metal beams smack in the middle of large rooms etc.... I guess If I ever really become obsessed with improving it, I could expand the room in the back (there is a workshop behind), rip out the drop ceiling, and move the ducts somehow, to get a reasonable height, but knowing me, that would take about 10 years :)

ps: pretty wild project you are thinking about doing there! :) I've also thought a little about using a slightly curved screen, but never figured out whether it is any point without anamorphic lens (I'm just going to use the zoom method, at least for the next few years). Also, I have no idea how I would build one that looks half way decent :)

brassos

12-19-08, 04:48 PM

Hello,
Picked up my 6100 today from BB. Will be placing at 15'6 to 16' back ceiling mount in a completely dark room. I purchased the h105 120" seymourav.com screen that was in the clearance area last week. Customer changed mind and moved up in size..After 30% discount is was a great price.
My front wall is covered in 1" Linacoustic and then Black velvet. The amount of light that it absorbs is amazing. Room is 12'6" by 17. Walls are treated in Linacoustic to 4' high and covered in burgundy GOM.
I am using Polk SDA-SRS mains with a Polk cs1000p center. Also have an Epik castle sub in the center of the front wall.
I get great sound in stereo as this is the main use of the system. I am hoping the screen is as acoustically transparent as i have read on these forums.
Room is dark gray with gray ceiling. We sit 11-13 feet back, will adjust to take advantage of bigger screen.
Will keep ya posted. screen is due next week.

Flivver

12-19-08, 06:07 PM

I'm getting the Epson 6100 with a 108inch diag screen. Throw distance caculator says 14' 5". Can that be moved back more and still work on 108 screen or do you have to have it right at 14'5". If I could do 18' I could do easy installation in back room with lens shinning out tru wall instead of ceiling mount and wires.
Cdoo932,

I had exactly the same question when I replaced a Panasonic AX100 with an Epson 6100 a week ago. The answer is, you'll be fine if you can control the ambient light a bit. My projector is mounted on a 6' 7" ceiling and the lens is 24' 7" from a 61" X108" Wislonart Designer White screen. The picture is great in a dark or dim room using low-lamp modes, and if it's kicked up to living room mode we get a good picture with a couple of table lamps lit. I had trouble understanding the Projector Central calculator until I realized that the colored area for the throw distance seems to mean you can fit a picture to your screen size from any distance within the shaded area. At any rate, that would square with what I'm experiencing.

deej84

12-19-08, 06:23 PM

I'm using an HD65 right now that I've had for the past 6 months or so. I love the picture and 3 dimensionality of it. My concern with it are black levels. In bright scenes the darks and blacks seem really washed out. This and very dark scenes bother me a bit. I want to know how black the dark scenes look alone with dark shadow details on bright scenes. Also coming from a dlp projector will I be losing any 3 dimensionality going to LCD. I like the picture of my dlp over my friends 46 inch samsung LCD with a 10000:1 contrast ratio. The colors don't appear as saturated even though they are accurate. Both have been calibrated. Can anyone comment on this??

Thanks,

Dustin

BKEW

12-20-08, 08:44 PM

New on this forum but a huge fan for some time….

Just wanted to post that I just finished setting up the 6100 in my unfinished basement. (Working the best setup for the a home theater in our new house) I will say this projector is excellent for the price range that Epson is pushing.

I have a complete light controlled area on an Elite HC Gray 106” screen and the color, shadow detail, black levels are very very good. (the HC screen helps)

The picture is pretty strong on the saturation out the box on some movies but with small personal preference adjustments it can be impressive. I am using Theater 1 with some of my personal settings and think it is the best setup right now for this projector.

Skin tones look very natural, maybe a tad on the lighter side compared to maybe a PT-AE or a Z model, but more to my liking preference.

I should have purchased the 120” or larger screen! This baby is a light canon as others have noted. I messed around on a white wall in our house and I got it to 140” and the picture was still great. ** No ambient light at all though, so I would not think of doing that without a completely dark room.

If you have ambient light and are having a hard time finding a projector that can work, I would look at the 6100. The black levels do diminish though in ambient light more then I thought they would but they are still acceptable. I know my old Mitsu had issues with ambient light so the 6100 is impressive to me in that aspect.

IMO the black levels are on par with lasts year’s better projectors. It is not up to the UB model yet. A friend has 1080 UB from last year and I will say the 6100 is closer now then it was. I just watched the Re-mastered Fifth Element and the space scenes impressed the crap out me, the area between the letter box and outer space was an even match, I could not see at 13’- 14’ feet away where they began or ended. Now I wish I could see the 6500 UB just to compare.

My only comment is the sharpness. As noted I had a MITSU before and I will say it was much sharper to my eye. I would rate this projector as average sharpness. It does make the movie seem more film like as people often prefer. I guess that would be my only knock is I wish for my taste is was just a tiny bit sharper. Still it is very sharp.

I thought I saw some blur in a few action movies (Transformers) but as it turned out I am pretty sure that was some stupid on part with the initial setup this week as I have not seen it lately. *** Will be watching to see if I notice it again.

Overall I would highly recommend this projector to anyone giving it serious thought.

don851

12-21-08, 04:04 AM

Finally got my 6100 all setup. Ceiling mounted 16' back using Sanus VMPR1 mount, 106" DaLite high power model B screen, 50' silver plated 22awg Monoprice HDMI cable, Sony BDP-S350, HDMI switched through a Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH AVR and set at default theater color setting. Thought I'd share a few pics taken with a Canon SD850IS.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll60/don851/IMG_6798_1.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll60/don851/IMG_6808_1.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll60/don851/IMG_6809_1.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll60/don851/IMG_6810_1.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll60/don851/IMG_6814_1.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll60/don851/IMG_6818_1.jpg

neekos

12-21-08, 09:07 AM

looks very nice. Did you have a pj before the Epson ? and if so, how do they compare ?

jienn

12-21-08, 09:40 AM

Thanks for screen shots... I will recieve my TW3800 LPE soon and will give my impressions then.

RAWAC

12-21-08, 12:07 PM

Well I just joined the 6100 club.
My MRS had told me to stop looking for a projector as I was about to order from QA.So I went looking and found a reciept (just had to know) for the 6100 and a grandview 92 HD screen.

Now I just have to wait till the 25th;)

georgeorwell

12-21-08, 12:50 PM

Man, you're the 2nd lucky B@$tard getting a 6100 from the MRS. Where did you guys shop for wives? I apparently picked mine up from the wrong store and I'm way out of the return period.

don851

12-21-08, 12:55 PM

looks very nice. Did you have a pj before the Epson ? and if so, how do they compare ?

Sorry, I'm upgrading from a 4.5 year old NEC LT260 and before that an NEC LT150 so not much of a comparison. My friend has a Panny Ax100 with the same screen. I'm trying to get him over and tell me how it compares to that.

georgeorwell

12-21-08, 01:13 PM

Sorry, I'm upgrading from a 4.5 year old NEC LT260 and before that an NEC LT150 so not much of a comparison. My friend has a Panny Ax100 with the same screen. I'm trying to get him over and tell me how it compares to that.

I have the same pj and screen. Can you tell me the difference between the pj and the top of the screen? I've been adjusting mine around and actually prefer mine in a higher position than normal.

BTW, nice shots.

neekos

12-21-08, 01:31 PM

Melbury

12-21-08, 02:04 PM

If you only have a few hours on the projector you might want to run it a bit more to see if the high airflow sound goes away,,,,,, mine did.
Cheers

I watched Dark Knight yesterday on Blu-ray.
I love the picture but sadly the fan is still very annoying. Tomorrow I will return the TW-3000 to the shop, they promised to return the money.
Following this topic I'm convinced most of you people does not have problems with the fan, otherwise you have mentioned it, I think.
So I do not switch to another brand and buy again a TW-3000 hoping on a quiet one this time.

RAWAC

12-21-08, 03:43 PM

Man, you're the 2nd lucky B@$tard getting a 6100 from the MRS. Where did you guys shop for wives? I apparently picked mine up from the wrong store and I'm way out of the return period.
Luck pure luck.
Now just finish the koa figured veneer on my Apex III mains and Apex C center.
:eek:

kingranch51

12-21-08, 03:53 PM

kingranch51

12-21-08, 03:54 PM

Also keep those screen shots coming provides crazy motivation to finish my room! thanx

don851

12-21-08, 07:01 PM

Has anyone done any gaming with the 6100 ? I think this is a sweet projector but I'm worried about gaming lag problems. For those who picked them up at best buy was it in stock or special order or at a magnolia center only?

I played some Left for Dead and and Rock Band. I didn't see any problems. But I don't really have the best eyes. I tried to get it at a Magnolia store locally but they wouldn't budge on the retail price and I would've had to pay tax.

don851

12-21-08, 09:07 PM

I have the same pj and screen. Can you tell me the difference between the pj and the top of the screen? I've been adjusting mine around and actually prefer mine in a higher position than normal.

BTW, nice shots.

I have 10 foot ceilings and didn't use the pipe that the mount came with. From ceiling to center of lens, it's 8 inches. From ceiling to top of the screen is 17 inches. I of course had to use the lens shift.

Wazzey

12-21-08, 09:45 PM

Has anyone done any gaming with the 6100 ? I think this is a sweet projector but I'm worried about gaming lag problems. For those who picked them up at best buy was it in stock or special order or at a magnolia center only?

My kids have played plenty of HALO and I haven't seen any issues. I will confirm in my case though that watching Football OTA on a Dish receiver that you still get pixelazation. (don't know what the technical term is) Mainly during the times that I always did, during slowmo replays, graphics changes (computer graphic transitions between scenes) and usually during an after the play camera that follows someone slowly coming off the field. Not usually will it ever happen during live play. This is when it always has happened in my case. Perhaps it is the source.
I did watch some live football on the NFL channel this week and didn't notice it hardly at all, I had to be looking for it and it was very minor. Still enjoying the picture.

Wazzey

12-21-08, 09:48 PM

I have 10 foot ceilings and didn't use the pipe that the mount came with. From ceiling to center of lens, it's 8 inches. From ceiling to top of the screen is 17 inches. I of course had to use the lens shift.

I think I'm kinda screwed on how my setup is. I've tilted this back and forth trying to get rid the pic to square up and I can't quite do it. Seems I can't get it quite square and this doesn't have keystone adjustment... at least I don't think it does.

anybody else having a problem keeping it square?

RAWAC

12-21-08, 11:27 PM

Question for all of the 6100 owners.
What kind of screens is everyone using for
Basmment low light rooms
other rooms with some ambiant lights

davyo

12-22-08, 03:04 AM

Question for all of the 6100 owners.
What kind of screens is everyone using for
Basmment low light rooms
other rooms with some ambiant lights

I made my own screen, 120" Flat White Foamcore,,,,,,(secured the foamcore to the wall with two very small peices of velcro).
Masking of the screen I did with a foam roller and flat black paint from Home Depot.

Also made my own wall shelf/mount.
(still need to add some finishing touchs on the shelf and some re-painting of the wall below the shelf)

http://i39.tinypic.com/23lfbls.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/kajjup.jpg

Cheers
Davyo

Brad_Smith

12-22-08, 09:09 AM

Has anyone done any gaming with the 6100 ? I think this is a sweet projector but I'm worried about gaming lag problems. For those who picked them up at best buy was it in stock or special order or at a magnolia center only?

I have close to 100 hours on mine with about 80-90% gaming. I play fallout3, farcry2, Cod4, Little big planet, and a few others on PS3. I'm used to gaming on a plasma. With the 6100 I have noticed no lag. I picked mine up at best buy. It was not in the magnolia part though but where the mortal tv's were.

Davyo I have the exact mount as you, except it is the black version. I use a black widow painted on the wall screen with wall trim painted a glossy black. Looks like a giant plasma.

shinksma

12-22-08, 10:08 AM

I think I'm kinda screwed on how my setup is. I've tilted this back and forth trying to get rid the pic to square up and I can't quite do it. Seems I can't get it quite square and this doesn't have keystone adjustment... at least I don't think it does.

anybody else having a problem keeping it square?

The only things that would prevent an absolutely square image from being possible is a curved wall or a messed up projector. Assuming the projector is OK, are you sure your wall/screen is flat, even if it isn't perfectly square to the floor/ceiling?

You should be able to get a "square" (rectangular, I know) image by just turning left/right and up/down. And you really don't want to use keystone - it compromises the image too much, IMHO.

Do you get just one edge curved, or are two curving no matter what you do?

shinksma

tommyv2

12-22-08, 10:18 AM

Has anyone done any gaming with the 6100 ? I think this is a sweet projector but I'm worried about gaming lag problems.

What lag problems? It uses a Pixelworks PW390 chipset only. It's considered the fastest chipset in the free world. In fact, there's only 2 projectors this year using that chipset, and it's the Epson 6100 and the Sanyo Z700.

villardk

12-22-08, 10:44 AM

RAWAC

12-22-08, 11:58 AM

don851

12-22-08, 12:10 PM

Picked up a 6100 at BB Saturday for $200 off and need recommendations for mounting it. I found a cheap mount that someone recommended in another thread, but I was hoping someone with a 6100 has used one before. I need to know if the mount will work with the mounting holes in the pj. www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082803&p_id=3010&seq=1&format=2"

Any other mounts that will work?

Also, I went to the Epson site and used their distance calculator for a 6100 and it says 10' for a 106" screen. Does that sound too close? Can the 6100 adjust that much?

Thanks for any help for this newbie. :confused:

I looked at that mount but for some reason it just didn't look as solid to me. I will have people sitting below mine so I wanted to get one that looked more solid. I went with the Sanus one. It came with a few different metric screw sizes for mounting and an extension pipe. Even with all four arms extended it couldn't reach all 4 corner mount points. Just make sure the Monoprice one comes with arm extensions just in case. The 6100 is pretty wide. I had to center the mount towards the lens and use the 2 extensions that came with it to reach the other two mount points. I use a 106" screen as well but mine is mounted back at 16'.

brassos

12-22-08, 01:27 PM

hello,
i used this mount. took maybe 20 mins to install. The arms that you use to reach the epsons 14" spacing are thin but solid. I get no vibration even at high volume. It also come with extensions.
http://www.mountdirect.com/Projector_Ceiling_Mount_PMS_Series_p/pms.htm
The quick release works well just rotate and its off, if you loosen the locking set screws of course.

georgeorwell

12-22-08, 02:07 PM

Davyo, your shelf placement looks similar to mine. For those that are shelf mounting, don't forget that the air intake on this pj is in the back. You want to make sure you leave enough clearance in the back for airflow.

tomes

12-22-08, 04:25 PM

I made my own screen, 120" Flat White Foamcore,,,,,,(secured the foamcore to the wall with two very small peices of velcro).
Masking of the screen I did with a foam roller and flat black paint from Home Depot.

Also made my own wall shelf/mount.
(still need to add some finishing touchs on the shelf and some re-painting of the wall below the shelf)

http://i39.tinypic.com/23lfbls.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/kajjup.jpg

Cheers
Davyo

I can't believe that noone so far commented on your floor decoration to the right of the screen ;) Do you leave it out all the time, or does she go in the closet when you have guests? :D

Wazzey

12-22-08, 04:36 PM

The only things that would prevent an absolutely square image from being possible is a curved wall or a messed up projector. Assuming the projector is OK, are you sure your wall/screen is flat, even if it isn't perfectly square to the floor/ceiling?

You should be able to get a "square" (rectangular, I know) image by just turning left/right and up/down. And you really don't want to use keystone - it compromises the image too much, IMHO.

Do you get just one edge curved, or are two curving no matter what you do?

shinksma

thanks for the reply, maybe I just haven't messed with it enough and tried to tilt it more at an angle to start with then move it up and down. I read in the book about its fixes, I guess I just need to mess with it some more.

tomes

12-22-08, 05:08 PM

thanks for the reply, maybe I just haven't messed with it enough and tried to tilt it more at an angle to start with then move it up and down. I read in the book about its fixes, I guess I just need to mess with it some more.

I don't own a projector yet, so don't put too much faith in my comment here, but I thought I read somewhere that the projector should always face straight ahead. (ie don't tilt the projector in any direction, and just use the lens shift option to shift the lens (not the projector itself)).

again, I may be way off...

davyo

12-22-08, 05:24 PM

I can't believe that noone so far commented on your floor decoration to the right of the screen ;) Do you leave it out all the time, or does she go in the closet when you have guests? :D

Yea,, I was noticing the lack of any comments reguarding the floor decoration as well,,,,,, but what'a ya expect,,,,,,this is a forum for A/V geeks and a naked girl real or fake is not guna get in the way of determining contrast ratio on a projector.

Come to think of it (pun intended) perhaps most of the AVS members are more familiar with a fake girl than a real girl.

I think AVS members are kinda like the same people that attend Star Trek conventions;)

As far as my floor decoration, I leave her out 24/7 and I do have fun with her,,,no, its not what your thinkin.
What I do is have her facing the exact spot were any girlfriend I invite over for movie night is going to be sitting.
I have had girls put a sweater or a blanket over her when I have left the room for a moment as they cant handle the floor decoration staring at them.
Its very very funny !!!!!!!!!!!!!

And thanks "tomes" for commenting,,, it proves that you are semi normal;)

Cheers
Davyo

kingranch51

12-22-08, 07:17 PM

deej84

12-22-08, 07:21 PM

Yea,, I was noticing the lack of any comments reguarding the floor decoration as well,,,,,, but what'a ya expect,,,,,,this is a forum for A/V geeks and a naked girl real or fake is not guna get in the way of determining contrast ratio on a projector.

Come to think of it (pun intended) perhaps most of the AVS members are more familiar with a fake girl than a real girl.

I think AVS members are kinda like the same people that attend Star Trek conventions;)

As far as my floor decoration, I leave her out 24/7 and I do have fun with her,,,no, its not what your thinkin.
What I do is have her facing the exact spot were any girlfriend I invite over for movie night is going to be sitting.
I have had girls put a sweater or a blanket over her when I have left the room for a moment as they cant handle the floor decoration staring at them.
Its very very funny !!!!!!!!!!!!!

And thanks "tomes" for commenting,,, it proves that you are semi normal;)

Cheers
Davyo

Haha, that's just weird!! Do you usually end up getting second dates with these girls or what?!?!

Dustin

davyo

12-22-08, 07:38 PM

Haha, that's just weird!! Do you usually end up getting second dates with these girls or what?!?!

Dustin

Yes, I do end up getting second dates,,, but Im not sure if its me or if they just like me for my projector.

Screen size does matter.

Cheers
Davyo

tomes

12-22-08, 08:42 PM

Yea,, I was noticing the lack of any comments reguarding the floor decoration as well,,,,,, but what'a ya expect,,,,,,this is a forum for A/V geeks and a naked girl real or fake is not guna get in the way of determining contrast ratio on a projector.

Come to think of it (pun intended) perhaps most of the AVS members are more familiar with a fake girl than a real girl.

I think AVS members are kinda like the same people that attend Star Trek conventions;)

As far as my floor decoration, I leave her out 24/7 and I do have fun with her,,,no, its not what your thinkin.
What I do is have her facing the exact spot were any girlfriend I invite over for movie night is going to be sitting.
I have had girls put a sweater or a blanket over her when I have left the room for a moment as they cant handle the floor decoration staring at them.
Its very very funny !!!!!!!!!!!!!

And thanks "tomes" for commenting,,, it proves that you are semi normal;)

Cheers
Davyo

I think it's aweome! :) in fact if my wife wouldn't have killed me, I'd ask where you got it ;)

I'm a geek but there is more to life than transistors and .net ;)

tomes

12-22-08, 08:47 PM

Is anyone using this projector with an at screen? Maybe Sheerweave 4500? Just wondering if there have been any moire problems with this setup? Would the panny be better because of its smooth screen technology?:confused:

I'd be interested in knowing this too. I just bought the 4500, will have the screen done before I buy a pj. I did read somewhere that 1080ub gave someone moiré problems. It could be size/position related too though. I also read that a very slight defocus may help.

cdoo932

12-22-08, 08:55 PM

shinksma

12-22-08, 10:01 PM

What would cause the pic to have a tiny jump in it. Tough to even notice it but it does a little jump every few seconds. Dosnt do it if i put the blue centering pattern up on the screen. I have a HD TWC box with 35ft HDMI. Thanks

Does it do it with every channel, or just certain ones? TNT-HD has this issue - I think they do some kind of cheating with the frames to shave time off the show/movie. Chronicles of Riddick was on the other week and was awful for it.

shinksma

Bud8Chevy

12-22-08, 10:28 PM

Here are some lux measurements with Living Room mode, High lamp mode on, high speed auto iris at 14 hrs of use. Full on/off on 113" screen 20ft from projector.

The image represents my entire screen and the location of the red numbers represents the location and ratio i calculated on that part of the screen. The black numbers are the lux measurements per full white or full black image.
113" Image 20ft from projector
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/100_002_full-on-off.jpg
93" Image 20ft from projector
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/100_003_full-on-off.jpg

This post has been updated since my original measurements. Here are the measurements from 12/21/2008. (http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/100_001_full-on-off.jpg) My new settings are brighter and give a better contrast ratio. I had a max ratio of just under 1000:1 last time and now reaching 1400:1. Dynamic mode doesn't give the contrast ratio Living Room mode does with gamma adjusted and expanded hdmi.

Bud8Chevy

12-22-08, 10:29 PM

Here are some HDMI range normal vs expanded comparisons in Dynamic mode. Ignore the blue tent from my camera. The expanded range definitely has better gray detail.

NORMAL__________________________________________EXPANDED
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/100_6472_DK_000-1.jpg
Expanded has more detail on building windows.
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/100_6472_DK_002.jpg
More face detail with Expanded. Hard to look at Normal mode in this scene.
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/100_6485_HP_001.jpg
Normal looks better in this pic but hard to look at on screen.
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/100_6485_HP_002.jpg
Same with this pic. Easier to view with Expanded.
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/100_6485_HP_003.jpg
Expanded has more face detail and background view.
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/100_6485_HP_004copy-1.jpg
Look at the gap in the concrete wall.
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/100_6485_HP_005copy-1.jpg
More face detail.

Bud8Chevy

12-22-08, 10:29 PM

HDMI Normal Range - Dynamic
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/HDMI_Norm_Tone_1.jpg
HDMI Expanded Range - Dynamic
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/HDMI_Expanded_Tone1.jpg
HDMI Expanded Range - Living Room
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/HDMI_Expanded_Living_Tone_1.jpg

Here is the final setting I like the most. Dynamic mode has a EE look to it. Living room removes this and adds a cooler(blue) look which makes most scenes easier to view.
HDMI Range: Expanded
Color Mode: Living Room
Brightness Control: High (Low on Cable TV input)
Auto Iris: High Speed
Gamma Tone 1: -32
Gamma Tone 2: -5
Gamma Tone 3: +1
Gamma Tone 4: -1
Gamma Tone 5-9: 0
PS3 BD/DVD Video Output (HDMI): Automatic
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/FINAL.jpghttp://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd67/cllankf/100_6626.jpg

rootdown

12-22-08, 11:21 PM

Do you use lens shift? Could that be a factor in your lux measurements?

gprro1

12-23-08, 01:07 AM

Bud,

Thanks for the measurements. So contrast is below 1000 to 1? Maybe it's a step down contrast wise from my infocus.

CT_Wiebe

12-23-08, 01:10 AM

cdoo932

12-23-08, 08:00 AM

Does it do it with every channel, or just certain ones? TNT-HD has this issue - I think they do some kind of cheating with the frames to shave time off the show/movie. Chronicles of Riddick was on the other week and was awful for it.

shinksma

Yea,its doing it with every channel on the Epson 6100.Its not doing it with my 52inch Samsung from same feed with a 6ft HDMI. Can see it when Espn has a scrool on the bottom real good. Any thoughts?

villardk

12-23-08, 10:13 AM

From other calculators I am getting 11ft 11in is the distance for the 6100 with the lense at maximum.Personal I will be back from 12ft 4in to 13ft 6in .Once it arrives I will make my mount once mine arrives on the 25th:D

I set up the projector at ten feet on a table and it filled my 106" screen and more using the zoom so the Epson calculator was correct. I plan to mount it to the ceiling at about 12'. Now I can't wait to get my Blu-Ray player (Sony) set up and play my first HD movie (The Dark Knight) tonight.:D

RAWAC

12-23-08, 10:33 AM

I set up the projector at ten feet on a table and it filled my 106" screen and more using the zoom so the Epson calculator was correct. I plan to mount it to the ceiling at about 12'. Now I can't wait to get my Blu-Ray player (Sony) set up and play my first HD movie (The Dark Knight) tonight.:D

Well that shows that some online calculators like the one at projector central are not 100% true in real life.

Thanks for letting me us know in fact you can get 106" at 10ft :D

Bud8Chevy

12-23-08, 11:39 PM

Updated the contrast ratio measurements from a few days back here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15361404#post15361404) Increased it from a max of 970:1 to just short of 1400:1. When I zoom in to 93" diagonal for 16:9 material to fit my screen i get a max ratio of 1580:1. Adjusted color mode from Dynamic to Living Room with Gamma and color adjustments. Viewing with ambient light on is now excellent too.

Do you use lens shift? Could that be a factor in your lux measurements?

Set it up without any lens shift. Didn't improve anything from that. Still can't get it focus completely on the left side but still a really really great looking picture though.

bnug

12-24-08, 09:06 AM

don851

12-24-08, 04:05 PM

Folks who ceiling mounted using Sanus VMPR1 mount,

No matter how much I tighten the 4 tapered thumb nuts (last step), the projector does not seem to be securely fastened. I am still able to release the projector out of the slots with a simple twist.

I am worried that the projector may fall out while adjusting the manual focus or zoom.

Did you encounter this while assembling? Any thoughts if you think I am doing something wrong?

I never thought about checking that. So I'm not sure if mine does that or not. I don't really want to mess up the adjustments right now but will check it someday when I get a chance. They should've put a small dip in the tracks so the thumb screws drop down a little bit. I guess the only thing keeping it from spinning off is the pressure from the thumb screws and the weight of the pj.

neekos

12-24-08, 04:20 PM

I've got the 6100 hooked up right now and the picture is very nice. It's not incredible, but nice.

It might be going back though. I can't believe Epson would bring a product to market that has such a loud Dynamic Iris. Really unacceptable.

Dman1138

12-25-08, 03:02 AM

Here's a few screenshots from my new 6100. The shots are from mkv files via my htpc.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3113/3134276327_7207a57faf_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3107/3135098454_18430296d1_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3223/3134276619_e7d136a818_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3202/3135098536_fa0e177a78_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3118/3135098670_0bdc2154e8_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3108/3134276533_04cd41340e_b.jpg

Dman1138

12-26-08, 04:40 AM

A few more from my 6100.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3105/3137991196_8b504fcbd2_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3096/3137172277_6e1dd19233_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3249/3137999264_b8abe95ac0_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/3137163985_134fe579c0_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3020/3137991124_b64603d960_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/3137163927_2d6310e076_o.jpg

WaveyD4vey

12-27-08, 12:22 AM

i didnt read through a whole lot of this thread yet....but any reviews out yet on the 6100? im curious to see how it stacks up against the older 1080UB model

nigel_ht

12-28-08, 09:02 AM

Has anyone seen any banding on the 6100 or any other of the ills of older organic panels? Debating this projector over the Mitsu 6500. Thanks!

georgeorwell

12-28-08, 12:37 PM

I have not seen any banding. Then again, I haven't seen banding since about 10 projectors ago....AE700.

kingranch51

12-29-08, 03:41 AM

Anyone else with a loud iris? Or are they all loud?

Wazzey

12-29-08, 08:39 AM

Mine is pretty loud, but it is a non factor I would think, it only happens when you switch between settings. i.e. living room to theater black 1 ... I assume we are talking about the same thing. Otherwise I don't hear anything.

georgeorwell

12-29-08, 02:51 PM

I moved my pj about a foot higher due to the noise from the iris. That aside, I still noticed that it got quieter after about 20 hours of use. Not the first pj I've seen that needed some "break-in" of the iris.

RAWAC

12-29-08, 03:21 PM

I just got my 6100 going last night, and all I have is small amount of fan noise but then i have mine mounted behind me and up.

I did come up with a very sleek and modern mount all from IKEA.I will post it all later with photos.
So far no set up just out of the box and onto the taupe coloured wall as i am getting the screen today.(MRS got me the projector and screen for Xmas) But the screen did not arrive in time 106" getting installed today.

dakota388

12-29-08, 03:39 PM

I'm looking for some advice? I own an infocus5700 for about 5-6 years. I loved it but am highly disappointed with its longevity as it has went kerplunk at less than 1000 total hours. (I'll never buy an infocus again, $5000 for 1000 hours, urghhhh!) I haven't even needed a new bulb, yet. Not to bore you with the details but it won't turn on and I have been told it will be more to fix than the projector is worth.
Anyway, I have wanted to upgrade to 1080P for awhile now and I guess I cannot put it off much longer. I am not as picky as all of the experts here, after all, I have been happy with the 5700(pic-wise)for years and any 1080P will be a wonderful improvement, I am sure. I have a chance to get the Sanyo PLV-2000 for about $400 less than the Epson 6100.
1. My first question is will I see a dramatic difference if I buy last years Sanyo instead of a new Epson?
2. I was content(not thrilled) with black levels in the 5700 and would like an improvement. Are the newer projectors a lot better? (I figured as much but was wondering since I'm going from DLP to LCD)
3. But, probably my top concern has to be longevity since my wife isn't too keen on another projector purchase after such little use of our last one. I know no one can tell me how long a projector will last but maybe some insight into the quality of the two companies (Sanyo, Epson)
4. Lastly, any way to recycle my 5700?
Thanks to everyone. This site helped me immensely before and hopefully it will again.

nigel_ht

12-29-08, 04:53 PM

3. But, probably my top concern has to be longevity since my wife isn't too keen on another projector purchase after such little use of our last one. I know no one can tell me how long a projector will last but maybe some insight into the quality of the two companies (Sanyo, Epson)

My wife isn't keen either since my projector had an "early" death as well at 5-6 years. At least I got around 1500 hours on it. Luck of the draw...but folks that use their projectors a lot more than we do tend to see their failures before the warranties go dead.

Epson has a far better reputation as near as I can tell than Sanyo but 1000-1500 hours over 5-6 years means you and I both are not likely to learn if we have a lemon until after the warranties expire unless it goes bad in the first month or so of watching. That said, I'm not considering either a Sanyo or Panasonic at the moment.

dakota388

12-29-08, 05:16 PM

Thanks Nigel. What projector are you looking at and why?

Uncle_Rico

12-29-08, 09:35 PM

nigel_ht

12-29-08, 11:13 PM

Thanks Nigel. What projector are you looking at and why?

I am dithering between the Mitsubishi HC6500 and the Epson 6100.

The HC6500 has an inorganic panel that should last longer but given the usage pattern I dunno it's all that big a deal.

The 6100 is brighter and has a higher CR spec'd. I'm waiting to see if Art's 6100 review can tell us how the 6100 black levels compare to other projectors.

If the Magnolia's had offered me the black friday pricing on the HC6500 I'd have just bought it. Today, I'm guessing they won't even give me the sale price from Saturday so I'm leaning toward the 6100, not that I HAVE to buy this week but some rebates and deals end on 12/31. There will be more rebates and deals so eh...I just happen to have wifely purchasing approval NOW. :)

Whatever I buy has to last several years...I'd get the Epson 6500UB if it were a little cheaper and frankly it fits my current buying trend better than either the 6100 or HC6500.

Before, my projector strategy was to buy the cheapest projector I could live with and replace often figuring spending $1500 every other year would get you better image quality than spending $3000 every 4 years. Looking back at the projectors from 2 and 4 years ago I think the trend holds very well at any of the various price points and replacement cycles. And it insulates you a little from getting a lemon projector which has some odds of happening regardless of brand or technology.

But it's just too much hassle getting wifely approval every other year for a major purchase like this.

nigel_ht

12-29-08, 11:27 PM

So I'm in the Magnolia section of BB today wishfully thinking they might have a 6100 on display so I could see what it looks like. When I asked the Magnolia salesman if they have one setup to demo, he tells me no and then goes on to tell me that the 6100 is not a good projector because it has a 'plastic lens'.

Having never heard of that, I just chalked it up to BB BS, but I thought I would post here and see if anyone knows what he might be talking about.

"Best of all, with the Epson exclusive Cinema Filter and OptiCinema™ lens by Fujinon — the type typically used by renowned Hollywood filmmakers — you’re sure to experience movies like never before."

From Epson: http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=63077379

Given that Epson touts it's Fujinon lenses whatever weakness the 6100 has, it isn't likely the lens system in comparison to similarly priced projectors.

The Mitsu HC6500 that BB pushes does have the Reon and the C2Fine panel. Why the hell it has lower published CR than the 6100 escapes me. On paper the HC6500 should be in the same class as the 6500UB only with better features (powered zoom/shift, anamorphic lens support, quieter, etc).

Personally, I'm just guessing that Mitsubishi = better commission.

joemcgin

12-30-08, 11:01 AM

I know it was asked before in this thread but there wasn't much of a response sp I'll ask again. What mount are you using with the 6100?

Thanks

RAWAC

12-30-08, 12:07 PM

I know it was asked before in this thread but there wasn't much of a response sp I'll ask again. What mount are you using with the 6100?

Thanks
I will post later my new mounted 6100.I used a new cabinet system from IKEA with a roller shelf and mounted it to the wall all with one stop IKEA shopping.Best of all I have another spot for collectibles as well I can pull out the projector or slide it in.

mcg1275

12-30-08, 07:39 PM

NewPannyGuy

12-30-08, 07:47 PM

I'll be buying the 6100 soon (not soon enough though) coupled w/ a 100" screen. Because of the length of my monoprice HDMI cable (25' already installed & drywalled) from my AVR to the projector, I have two options.

1) Install projector at 10' from sceen using exising HDMI cable & use near the WIDE zoom limit

2) Install the projector at mid zoom range and add a 5' HDMI cable using a female-to-female coupler.

Which would you do? Any advice or tips would be helpful.

If you can increase the screen size by extending the cable then definitely go for it. However if you are stuck with a 100" screen then I would say better to put the PJ at 10' and use the widest zoom setting.

CADOBHuK

12-31-08, 01:26 AM

Near the wide zoom limit will make the picture brighter, while near the narrow zoom limit (further away from the screen) will make the picture dimmer but with better contrast. You should play around with it and see what you prefer.

par4

12-31-08, 11:53 AM

Art has just finished his preliminary look at the 6100 and posted his thoughts on his blog. Looks like a very favorable bang for the buck review upcoming.

relder

12-31-08, 12:31 PM

par4

12-31-08, 12:37 PM

I bet the BB droid saw the plastic mockup Epson gives BB for floor display (which has a thin sheet of platic as a 'lens') and assumed that was a real one. Inspires confidence.
Relder, I wonder what happened when he tried to plug it in?

backinsdle

12-31-08, 01:47 PM

Art has just finished his preliminary look at the 6100 and posted his thoughts on his blog. Looks like a very favorable bang for the buck review upcoming.

Link Please.

Happy New Year,
Russ

comixguru

12-31-08, 02:08 PM

Link Please.

Art's blog entry is here:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog/2008/12/31/epson-home-cinema-6100-projector-first-look/

-comix

muzz

12-31-08, 02:25 PM

So Art is saying lousy blacks, and it has Organic panels as well?

Is this what we are to get with our hard earned 2 Thousand Dollars ?

Trav2003

12-31-08, 04:03 PM

So Art is saying lousy blacks, and it has Organic panels as well?

Is this what we are to get with our hard earned 2 Thousand Dollars ?

From what I gather from his blog, it sounds like it has decent black levels - but not high end, by any means. And what is up with the disdain for Organic panels? From what I've read you can expect some long term panel degredation, but nothing that hasn't been seen before for the last however many years. We can't expect C2Fine Inorganic panels on all sub-$2000 PJs... at least not yet.

muzz

12-31-08, 04:10 PM

georgeorwell

12-31-08, 04:29 PM

I bet the BB droid saw the plastic mockup Epson gives BB for floor display (which has a thin sheet of platic as a 'lens') and assumed that was a real one. Inspires confidence.

Now that's funny! I hate making fun of those guys, but every time I visit..they make it so damn easy.

NewPannyGuy

12-31-08, 05:59 PM

So Art is saying lousy blacks, and it has Organic panels as well?

Is this what we are to get with our hard earned 2 Thousand Dollars ?

That cracked me up. Its the same "lousy blacks" for which people were paying 10K only a couple of years ago. You should save your hard earned 2 Thousand Dollars for 2 more years and get non-lousy blacks then.

muzz

12-31-08, 07:26 PM

That cracked me up. Its the same "lousy blacks" for which people were paying 10K only a couple of years ago. You should save your hard earned 2 Thousand Dollars for 2 more years and get non-lousy blacks then.

Next time speak english.

Thanks

Lupin3

12-31-08, 07:28 PM

That's right, it HAS been seen before, I'm actually looking at degraded panels as I type this, and to me it's unacceptable, and this problem has existed for YEARS, which means that they have had plenty of time to fix this issue.....

Sounded to me like he said the blacks were rather weak, as the Sanyo was the worst, and this is bested by the Sanyo...

I will not buy another LCD if the panels/polarizer(doesn't matter which item, they run hand in hand) are going to degrade after < 2years.

Edit: Sorry for the derail, it's just getting tiresome waiting for a decent PJ, that wont degrade, has decent lumens, PQ and placement for a reasonable price... They sure drag the prices on this stuff as long as they can!!

I'm curious: what sort of degradation are you currently experiencing? There is another thread about "organic panels" and the 6100 here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099893). My opinion is currently that while there may be some basis in reality to the concern about organics, it is significantly exaggerated - though I am certainly open to contradictory evidence.

(I'm assuming muzz does not equal Ozmuzz here.)

par4

12-31-08, 07:40 PM

muzz

12-31-08, 07:55 PM

I'm curious: what sort of degradation are you currently experiencing? There is another thread about "organic panels" and the 6100 here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099893). My opinion is currently that while there may be some basis in reality to the concern about organics, it is significantly exaggerated - though I am certainly open to contradictory evidence.

(I'm assuming muzz does not equal Ozmuzz here.)

Nope, Ozmuzz is the muzz from OZ I would guess.......I live in the States, but his point is well taken by me, because I have a panny AX100, and it is most DEFINITELY failing, and has been getting progressively worse.
My Brother has a Hitachi LCD RPTV- failing miserably as well- big red blotchey mess in the middle of the screen..
I have an EW, so I will be calling them to have them look at it.
Whether it is because of the difference of being Inorganic, or a byproduct doesn't REALLY matter to me, as long as they don't degrade like the polarizers/panels of these organic ones, I will look at them very favorably..
The PJ is my main display in this part of the house, aamof I am typing on it right now (htpc), I see a yellowy mess in the middle of the screen.

comixguru

01-01-09, 04:11 AM

Walked into BB, asked for 15% off this one... and they gave it to me, without blinking. YMMV. Put up some fabric and have been watching some SD DVDs this evening from a cheap non-upconverting DVD player via component. Will have to hook up the HD DVD or BR player tomorrow.

Picked this one for placement flexibility, brightness, price, and specs. I'll have to reserve judgment on the PQ until I get some decent images to this one tomorrow. Might have to wait for my screen, ultimately.

Last projector I owned was an X1.

No fan loud/high pitched fan noise. Quiet.

-comix

NewPannyGuy

01-01-09, 06:12 AM

Next time speak english.

Thanks

Muzz, you sure are fussy. First the blacks are lousy and now my english isn't good enough for you :-).
Anyway I was just trying to point out that the perceived excellence of PJ black levels (and most other specs) is relative to what else is available in the market. Only 2-3 years ago, most reviewers would have raved on a CR of 18K:1 even at a much higher price. I'm just happy that now we have 1080P PJs available for less than 2K. So if you want better black levels you can spend only 6-700$ more of your hard earned money and get the 6500UB or the AE3000 (assuming its black levels are good enough for you). Seems like a bargain to me.

In a couple of years surely there would be sub-2K PJs with CRs > 50K:1. But I'm sure you would be complaining then too, as more expensive ones would boast CRs of 500K:1.

muzz

01-01-09, 08:13 AM

Yeah, those contrast #'s are accurate.....

neekos

01-01-09, 09:59 AM

muzz, for what's it's worth, I had the 6100 and returned it. It is an extremely bright projector and throws a very nice image. The black levels did bother me in that you could never get them black enough. The most annoying thing about it was the loud iris.

I decided to spend the extra money towards the 6500UB, which I am awaiting. To me, the extra benefits of deeper blacks and inorganic panels won out. I also figured, it will have a higher resale value when I decide to upgrade.

msulinski

01-01-09, 10:39 AM

NewPannyGuy

01-01-09, 12:24 PM

I am considering this projector or possibly the 6500UB. Does the 6500 have organic or inorganic panels?

Also, does anyone know the differences between the 6100/6500 and the 7100/7500 models? Is it just the Reon chip?

Except for the brightness and price, 6500UB is better than the 6100 in most other departments. Much better black levels/CR, better LCD panels, 12bit video processing, Reon processor, frame interpolation (not yet functional completely but still the feature is there). Basically much better PQ.

7100/7500 are just the pro versions of the 6100 and 6500 which are available only through local dealers and come with 3 yr warranty, extra lamp but are $1K more than their corresponding 6xxx models.

Of course you can get all this info from the Epson website itself, so not sure if this is what you were looking for in this thread.

I actually have both on order and scheduled to be delivered around 7th Jan. If the 6500 is bright enough for my setup I'll keep it and return the 6100. If not, I'll have to live with the 6100 and sell the 6500 (the seller won't take it back). I'll post my findings once I do the comparison.

Lupin3

01-01-09, 01:06 PM

The 6100's panels differ from the 6500's only (as far as I've seen) in that the 6100 uses an "organic" alignment layer to prepare the liquid crystal molecules for polarization. Both sets of panels are poly-silicon.

The difference is the essence of the C2Fine system: by using an electronically managed (ie, "inorganic") substrate in the alignment layer, the liquid crystal molecules can be arranged with a greater degree of uniformity, reducing banding and increasing color uniformity. C2Fine changes the "resting" state of the liquid crystals from being normally on (ie, emitting light) to normally off. This means the black floor is reduced substantially, while the light ceiling remains more or less the same, greatly increasing contrast.

What does this have to do with the longevity of the projector? Not much, as far as I can see. The only real difference between C2Fine "inorganic" and "organic" panels is that, because of the change to the light off "normally black" resting state, C2Fine runs cooler. But this doesn't have a meaningful effect on longevity either, as this typically allows a quieter cooling system to be used, resulting in similar operating temperatures.

The claim that "organic" panels suffer from longevity problems appears to me to be so far without an objective basis, and may well be parroting FUD.

par4

01-01-09, 01:33 PM

Lupin3

01-01-09, 01:48 PM

Thanks for that description and comparing the inorganic and organic in such a way that even I (a mentally challenged videophile wannabe) can understand, Lupin3.
Just curious, have you had the chance over time to sit back and view at length each of the FP formats (lcos, lcd, and dlp) and if so, do you prefer any over the other in terms of just plain movie watching enjoyment? I mean just in terms of the portrait being painted on the screen?

It's difficult to make any apples-to-apples comparison, but prior to having purchased my 6100 I did have the opportunity to study a Sony VW-40 for a few hours, and have watched many movies on a friend's 3-chip InFocus DLP.

Based on these experiences, I'm very happy with my 6100. I love DLP - it's probably my preferred technology based on it's ability to combine brightness with excellent ANSI contrast and dark blacks. However, even on my friend's 3-chip DLP, I see rainbows. It's not a huge deal, but it is distracting. So why do I love my 6100? Because I simply cannot afford a DLP that does what it does - which is to give me a huge screen (currently over 120"), 1080p, and excellent contrast for a pj in its price category.

davoran

01-01-09, 02:01 PM

I have interest in the 6100. I currently have the Panasonic ae-900u, which has nearly 3000 hours on the first bulb! I have had zero problems with it, and I have a dedicated room.

I'm torn at this point, because I want true HD and the Panny is 720p.

My question is, am I really gaining that much resolution and brightness if going from the ae-900u to the 6100? I was told by someone that HDTV from my local cable company is on 720p, but I don't know if this is true.

Also, I have a hushbox that will be tough to move. What is the range of placement for a 92" diagonal screen?

Another issue is the value of the ae-900u in the used market. I have a new bulb, which I'm guessing is worth at least two hundred bucks, and the current bulb is working great. If I could get $600 out of the Panny w/new bulb, the 6100 starts becoming cost effective, as I would then be under $1500 in net upgrade cost.

muzz

01-01-09, 02:03 PM

par4

01-01-09, 02:16 PM

It's difficult to make any apples-to-apples comparison, but prior to having purchased my 6100 I did have the opportunity to study a Sony VW-40 for a few hours, and have watched many movies on a friend's 3-chip InFocus DLP.

Based on these experiences, I'm very happy with my 6100. I love DLP - it's probably my preferred technology based on it's ability to combine brightness with excellent ANSI contrast and dark blacks. However, even on my friend's 3-chip DLP, I see rainbows. It's not a huge deal, but it is distracting. So why do I love my 6100? Because I simply cannot afford a DLP that does what it does - which is to give me a huge screen (currently over 120"), 1080p, and excellent contrast for a pj in its price category.
Thanks Lupin3. That's kinda what I was interested in, more of a subjective reaction to the image (I think you know what I'm sayin'). In my limited experience with each, I too am prone to the occasional rainbow with dlp (and some sort of eye strain over time), but love the three dimensionality (ahh, it's the mirrors). But with advent of the new technology (and lower prices), I'm taking a hard look at the new LCD 1080p's. It seems according to the owners the contrast and black levels are now getting very acceptable and the value prospect of something like the 6100 seems to be appealing.

Lupin3

01-01-09, 02:47 PM

Objective?
Fud?
This from a guy that just bought a 6100 after doing a bunch of googling on panels....

I guess we are just imagining the issues with the LCD PJS with 4K+hours on them....
How many hours have you put on an LCD PJ?

I honestly hope you enjoy the 6100, but my suggestion is to get rid of it before you put >3500 hrs.

Of course I'm not suggesting that people haven't had issues with LCD pjs - any more than I would suggest that of people with DLP or LCoS pjs. The point is, we have no information on what percentage of users of these various technologies have had issues. This, of course, is what I mean when I say we have no objective basis of information about these issues.

Moreover, those issues that have been reported have not been, by any stretch of the imagination, shown to be the result of "organic panels." Indeed, no clear understanding of the differences between organic and inorganic technologies has been shown at all on this board.

You want to suggest that someone who has only done "a bunch of googling" on the subject is somehow less qualified to speak on the subject than yourself.

The truth is that it has taken very little effort on my part to rubbish your claims about the defective nature of organic tech.

I have not, by the way, suggested there is no problem. Only that one has not been shown here at AVS Forum (or any place else). So to show there is a problem, you have only to:

1. Show that there is a statistically higher incident of failures among 3LCD projectors than the other types.

2. Show that these failures are over-represented by failures related to organic technology.

Having done so, I would gladly help you write the definitive thread on this issue. Until then, the assertions that "organic panels" have longevity issues will amount to little more than FUD.

cyrek

01-01-09, 03:28 PM

Organic or Inorganic....If I didn't upgrade at least every 3 years, I would feel behind. This said...Im coming from a HD70 with almost 2000 hours in 2 years. So if the 6100 makes it till 2012.....both the bulb and the panels....Im happy.

Still I believe running a projector in high ambient room temp. 80+ would shorten the lifespan no matter what tech it uses, as does not cleaning filters etc.

I pick my 6100 up on friday....and it can't get here soon enough!

par4

01-01-09, 03:38 PM

muzz

01-01-09, 04:31 PM

Of course I'm not suggesting that people haven't had issues with LCD pjs - any more than I would suggest that of people with DLP or LCoS pjs. The point is, we have no information on what percentage of users of these various technologies have had issues. This, of course, is what I mean when I say we have no objective basis of information about these issues.

Moreover, those issues that have been reported have not been, by any stretch of the imagination, shown to be the result of "organic panels." Indeed, no clear understanding of the differences between organic and inorganic technologies has been shown at all on this board.

You want to suggest that someone who has only done "a bunch of googling" on the subject is somehow less qualified to speak on the subject than yourself.

The truth is that it has taken very little effort on my part to rubbish your claims about the defective nature of organic tech.

I have not, by the way, suggested there is no problem. Only that one has not been shown here at AVS Forum (or any place else). So to show there is a problem, you have only to:

1. Show that there is a statistically higher incident of failures among 3LCD projectors than the other types.

2. Show that these failures are over-represented by failures related to organic technology.

Having done so, I would gladly help you write the definitive thread on this issue. Until then, the assertions that "organic panels" have longevity issues will amount to little more than FUD.

Keep Googling, in the meantime I'll have my FAULTY Technology repaired, just as you will have to when 3500hrs+ comes around on your 6100.

Fud..... yeah, when you see it happen to your PJ, you can call it FUD all the way to the trashcan or the repair depot....