My point in posting was to find out if the new unit has this issue fixed or not, not to troubleshoot something that has already been through the troubleshooting process.......
I was writing to JeffMac even though I posted right after you. Again, I work with Sim and am aware of the issues. I am simply suggesting to Jeff one of the things that should be tested if he has not already done so.

I was writing to JeffMac even though I posted right after you. Again, I work with Sim and am aware of the issues. I am simply suggesting to Jeff one of the things that should be tested if he has not already done so.

Oh, sorry.

I am not saying it is not the Sim but as part of troubleshooting I would recommend trying a new HDMI cable and seeing if the problem persists. I have encountered some very unusual intermittent issues due to HDMI cables.

I've already tried two different HDMI cables and both made no difference. Thanks for the suggestion though.

BTW: The red sparklies are only produced at 1080p60.

Had this EXACT problem with my (UK Supplied) C3X 1080 - Red sparkles appear in dark areas with increasing frequency until the picture was unwatchable...

It was diagnised with a single phone call then returned to Sim by my (superb) dealer, and the problem fixed (small modification to a single component I'm told) - in all it was away for only 4 days - so far I've been delighted with the customer service.

Since then this problem has never resurfaced.

YMMV

I get the red sparklies using my cable box with the C3X1080. I thought it might be the cable box, but I just replaced the box and grounded the line and the problem is still there. When I switch the cable to the other HDMI input on the C3X1080, the red sparklies are less and look very different (one HDMI input behaves much worse than the other...). I'm supposed to get a firmware update soon from AV Science, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all of the 1080p and 1080i issues are solved finally....

Had this EXACT problem with my (UK Supplied) C3X 1080 - Red sparkles appear in dark areas with increasing frequency until the picture was unwatchable...

It was diagnised with a single phone call then returned to Sim by my (superb) dealer, and the problem fixed (small modification to a single component I'm told) - in all it was away for only 4 days - so far I've been delighted with the customer service.

Since then this problem has never resurfaced.

YMMV

Depends on if yours was an early production model. I had a tech from Sim and the local rep at my home. They spent the whole day here and then came to the wrong conclusion that it was the Blu-ray player.

I get the red sparklies using my cable box with the C3X1080. I thought it might be the cable box, but I just replaced the box and grounded the line and the problem is still there. When I switch the cable to the other HDMI input on the C3X1080, the red sparklies are less and look very different (one HDMI input behaves much worse than the other...). I'm supposed to get a firmware update soon from AV Science, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all of the 1080p and 1080i issues are solved finally....

Not seeing it makes it difficult to assess, but if it IS the red dots/sparklies that has been reported by others, then the firmware will not help. As I indicated previously, and as posted above, the unit needs to be modified. It is a VERY minor fix to the board. I guess try the firmware and if that doesn't work, make plans to get it back to Sim2. You shouldn't have to live with that issue.

Jim

Depends on if yours was an early production model. I had a tech from Sim and the local rep at my home. They spent the whole day here and then came to the wrong conclusion that it was the Blu-ray player.

Jeff, what was the Sim2 tech's name (first name only)? (Not doubting, just curious because there are only a couple of guys I would trust to get it right.)

Jim

Jeff, what was the Sim2 tech's name (first name only)? (Not doubting, just curious because there are only a couple of guys I would trust to get it right.)

Jim

Sorry, I don't remember his name. He flew in from southern California. The reps name was John.

That answers my question. While there are a couple of guys that do have some knowledge outside of Florida, the two best, that I've found through experience are both in Miramar. I'm not your dealer so I'm not trying to step on toes here, but I'd see about getting the unit back to Florida. I really believe it can be fixed there.

Jim

That answers my question. While there are a couple of guys that do have some knowledge outside of Florida, the two best, that I've found through experience are both in Miramar. I'm not your dealer so I'm not trying to step on toes here, but I'd see about getting the unit back to Florida. I really believe it can be fixed there.

Jim

Thanks for the help Jim. That was very nice of you.

The problem is that I started with a Sim2 C3X1080 almost a year ago. When the installers came we found that it was producing red sparklies and red lines on the side. The installers spent more than a day trying to figure out if it was the projector, the hdmi cables or the Denon blu-ray player. They went back and forth with all the manufactures and Sim kept blaming everyone else for the problem. Finally, we got them to admit that it was the pj and my dealer ended up paying the overnight FedEx charges so we could get the job done on time.
The second projector lasted about twenty hours until the reds completely disappeared. Sometimes it would work and sometimes it did not. At our expense the projector had to be taken down and a new one installed.
The third projector worked fine for awhile and then started producing red sparklies at about the 90 minute point. Once again Sim was contacted and they sent a tech from southern California to install a new one if needed. They spent a day at my house and came to the conclusion it was the blu-ray player. I found this hard to believe since the Sim had already produced red sparklies in previous projectors. So the dealer ordered a new Denon 3800. After the new Denon was installed the same problem existed and I am now convinced it is the projector.
I think I’ve been more than fair to Sim and certainly have given them enough chances. As I said almost a year has gone by and I really haven’t had a chance to even enjoy a movie. I’m too nervous waiting to see what will go wrong now. It wasn’t a whole lot of fun when all my relatives on Thanksgiving where pointing to the screen and asking what all those red lines were – including a ten year old.
Now that they are coming out with a new model I feel like I paid top dollar for a pj that is now way down in value. At this point I think I’d just like to get my money back and move on to another manufacture.

Oh, I also paid for two calibrations ($1200.00) which are now worthless.

Jeff, when you connect HDMI straight from the Blu Ray player to the projector, how long is the cable, what cable brand and type is it (is it HDMI 1.3a certified), and do you still get the red sparklies?????? Also, if your HDMI cable is installed in wall, funny bends can do sparkly things. That's why you test it out with a direct as short as possible HDMI line from Blu Ray player to projector. Now mebbe all the folks who tested your system to try to find the problem did all this??? I( do not blame you for being annoyed.

Jeff, when you connect HDMI straight from the Blu Ray player to the projector, how long is the cable, what cable brand and type is it (is it HDMI 1.3a certified), and do you still get the red sparklies?????? Also, if your HDMI cable is installed in wall, funny bends can do sparkly things. That's why you test it out with a direct as short as possible HDMI line from Blu Ray player to projector. Now mebbe all the folks who tested your system to try to find the problem did all this??? I( do not blame you for being annoyed.

Yes, I tested it four times with two different hdmi cables. The cable does go straight from the player to the projector. There is nothing in-between. Also the problem doesn't start until about 60-90 minutes into viewing so I'm thinking heat has something to do with it.

Jeff

This is a known issue with some internal component failure with the C3X 1080 that has a simple board fix as JLG mentioned. Send it to FL is my vote and it will be AOK. the C3X is an awesome projector, new models IMO do not change that. But it should be right and Sim2 customer service in FL is responsive and will most certainly support you.

How long is your HDMI run BTW?

Jeff

This is a known issue with some internal component failure with the C3X 1080 that has a simple board fix as JLG mentioned. Send it to FL is my vote and it will be AOK. the C3X is an awesome projector, new models IMO do not change that. But it should be right and Sim2 customer service in FL is responsive and will most certainly support you.

How long is your HDMI run BTW?

The hdmi is 30' but trust me, it's not the hdmi cable.

Well, I'm thinking to buy a Sim2 in near future, and I hope they improvise QC much more, since I got real worried with that problem, specially since I'm not in U.S.

Well looks like might be an early Christmas for me afterall:D

Stizzi,

woohoo! Congrats on being the first. Any viewing impressions or screenshots you can post yet? Perhaps a new review thread? :D

I wish I was first these pics were supplied by my dealer. Here is the release

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/19649/20673/sim2-c2x-lumis-host-launches.phtml

Very nice, cannot wait for a good review.

If the quality is really good (w/o issues), then it justify the price.

3 FDDI cables? That's a lot.

Anyone know how the FDDI is used and why 3 are needed?

Also, any word on US pricing for the LUMIS yet?

Rgb?

Um, OK I'll go with that. That is a huge amount of data throughput capability tho: Was hoping for something a little more exotic, thinking future (?) source bandwith requirements or rez possibly? ...

My guess is it uses 62.5/125 µm fiber (10GBASE-LRM or 10GBASE-LX4), since it can go up to 220 meters and 10GBit/sec per fiber.

We'll know when the product (or manual) is out.

Is this configuration similar to Sim2's other HOST implementations? Isn't HDMI 1.3 10Gb/sec? ....

Is this configuration similar to Sim2's other HOST implementations? Isn't HDMI 1.3 10GB/sec? ....

Yes, so the only way would be 10Gb/sec per fiber (on Sim2), and not only 1Gb/sec, like 10GBASE-LRM or 10GBASE-LX4.

Btw, HD-SDI is almost 3Gbit/sec (1080p) and way better than HDMI.

This solution uses 2 Fibers LC-LC multimode cables:

http://www.gefen.com/images/ext-hd-1000-front.jpg

http://www.gefen.com/images/ext-hd-1000-back.jpg

They labeled as C R G B.

It support both, 50 or 62.5 micron multi-mode fiber.

Manual:
http://www.gefen.com/pdf/EXT-HD-1000.pdf

Other example:
http://www.purelinkav.com/oda.htm

The same would be on Sim2.

35000:1 CR and 3000 ANSI Lumens!! :)

http://www.dezignare.com/whatshot/08/dec/05.SIM2.html

35000:1 CR and 3000 ANSI Lumens!! :)

http://www.dezignare.com/whatshot/08/dec/05.SIM2.htmlYou mentioned something about maybe wanting a darker screen material and I think that could be a good fit with this one, although it partially depends on the range for the manual iris and how well it works with other things. I'll be really interested to hear how well the dynamic system works overall and how it interacts with the manual iris. For instance, there are situations where it could be pretty useful if a person could close the manual iris down and still get high on/off CR with the dynamic system (dynamic iris and lamp) for some material (like movies in the dark), then open up the manual iris for some other material (like football or lights on viewing). Closing the manual iris down could also give a better starting point for native on/off CR for the dynamic system, so a brighter screen might have an advantage there, but an open manual iris might provide more on/off CR with the dynamic system. A manual iris can be pretty useful by itself (as I told somebody from SIM2 at their CEDIA press conference a couple of years ago), so even people who don't want to use the dynamic system could get something useful here.

For Art's screen he would probably have to have the manual iris mostly open, but this could be a good projector for him if he can get good convergence (his current SIM2 HT5000 has great convergence in his setup) and he ends up liking their DI system. I wonder if SIM2 will put a DI in a projector like the HT5000.

--Darin

You mentioned something about maybe wanting a darker screen material and I think that could be a good fit with this one, although it partially depends on the range for the manual iris and how well it works with other things. I'll be really interested to hear how well the dynamic system works overall and how it interacts with the manual iris. For instance, there are situations where it could be pretty useful if a person could close the manual iris down and still get high on/off CR with the dynamic system (dynamic iris and lamp) for some material (like movies in the dark), then open up the manual iris for some other material (like football or lights on viewing). Closing the manual iris down could also give a better starting point for native on/off CR for the dynamic system, so a brighter screen might have an advantage there, but an open manual iris might provide more on/off CR with the dynamic system. A manual iris can be pretty useful by itself (as I told somebody from SIM2 at their CEDIA press conference a couple of years ago), so even people who don't want to use the dynamic system could get something useful here.

For Art's screen he would probably have to have the manual iris mostly open, but this could be a good projector for him if he can get good convergence (his current SIM2 HT5000 has great convergence in his setup) and he ends up liking their DI system. I wonder if SIM2 will put a DI in a projector like the HT5000.

--Darin

I think you may have asked the right question. The big deal is I don't want to give up what I've got to gain in another parameter. A dual lamp 5000 with the contrast things in this one would be up my alley.

For Art's screen he would probably have to have the manual iris mostly open, but this could be a good projector for him if he can get good convergence (his current SIM2 HT5000 has great convergence in his setup) and he ends up liking their DI system.

Darin, I don't see it being a substitute for an HT5000, let alone an upgrade, nor do Sim2. I also don't see it being suitable for a user of a 14ft screen who requires 20fl.

Remember its 3000 ANSI lumen, that will probably translate to around 1300/1400 D65 lumen. The current C3X1080 is rated at 2500 ANSI lumen, and provides around 1100 D65. Obviously the number could be made higher if contrast were allowed to be traded.

The HT5000 optics are at a very much higher level too. The straight through arrangement, rather than an alpha path engine, as well as the constant aperture zoom mean that the HT5000 will loose far less light than its smaller sibling.

I do think this new machine could be a real killer.

I would also like to see a good DI in the HT5k. I'd really like to see a dual lamp 5k with a DI and a manual iris that would let you drop the light to that of the single lamp unit

I think you may have asked the right question. The big deal is I don't want to give up what I've got to gain in another parameter. A dual lamp 5000 with the contrast things in this one would be up my alley.

You must have posted that while I was writing the above. We are certainly singing from the same hymn sheet on this one.

Well.. at 1300 lumens, on my new screen, I should be getting over 30fl. So there is still room to clamp down the iris a bit. I am very interested to see how this dynamic black works.

Well.. at 1300 lumens, on my new screen, I should be getting over 30fl. So there is still room to clamp down the iris a bit. I am very interested to see how this dynamic black works.

Im sure it will be a killer machine. I'll be replacing 2 C3X1080s if it delivers.

Regarding lumens, you will be able to get more than that for non critical viewing like sports. Ive seen the old C3X push out well over 1500. Your zoom position will have a significant effect with all C3X versions.

I see its not that much higher priced that the current C3X1080.

Darin, I don't see it being a substitute for an HT5000, let alone an upgrade, nor do Sim2.It doesn't surprise me that they don't, but just like a lot of things, when one projector is better in one area and a 2nd is better in another area, people have to choose what is more important to them and may rank things differently than even the manufacturer. I know they aren't in the same league as SIM2, but as an example, Da-Lite recommends against using their High Power material for home theater since they consider some of their other materials better, yet many people get better images by using the HP over what Da-Lite does recommend (making sure we setup to use the screen properly). I think in this case it will partially come down to how much the differences are in convergence (including across the whole screen where I think the C3X is going to be less consistent for reasons you mentioned in your post) compared to how well the dynamic system works and how much a person values each of those things (and the requirements of their setup of course).
I also don't see it being suitable for a user of a 14ft screen who requires 20fl.I'm not sure that Art requires 20fl. I know he wants it, but he wants other stuff too. As we've talked about many times, we have to pick our poison as no one projector beats all others in every area. Much like when he went from the G90s to the HT5000. He knew he was giving up on/off CR, but was gaining other things. So, he didn't really require the very high on/off CR even though he valued it highly. In this case I don't know what it would take in other areas for him to give up those high ft-lamberts for 2.35:1 movies, but wouldn't surprise me if he would be willing to give up some for enough gain elsewhere.
Remember its 3000 ANSI lumen, that will probably translate to around 1300/1400 D65 lumen. The current C3X1080 is rated at 2500 ANSI lumen, and provides around 1100 D65.From what I've seen it looks like the current projector has a 250W lamp and I thought I heard that the new projector had a 300W lamp. Just that factor would take the 1100 up to your range (a little over 1300) if everything else was equal, but I don't know about other changes. Do you know if the opening in the lens with the manual iris open will be different than the effective opening with the current C3X1080?
Obviously the number could be made higher if contrast were allowed to be traded.A dynamic system can help here, but I don't know enough about their system. With some other dynamic systems the highest CR is also the highest lumens, so somewhat different than things were before dynamic systems. That doesn't look like the case here, but the dynamic system could make having the lens be as open as possible (for more lumens) be more acceptable.

As far as Art's system, when he is at 14' wide he is using an anamorphic lens that helps get more light into the screen area. When he is watching 1.78:1 or 1.85:1 material he is more like 10 and a half feet wide. In that case 1300 lumens with his screen, which is around 1.2 gain, would be about 24 ft-lamberts for the brightest spot. Without the anamorphic lens the 14' wide case would be about 14 ft-lamberts, but if the anamorphic lens increases that 20% it would be about 17 ft-lamberts. That is of course with the bulb new enough to give 1300 lumens.

For 16:9 stuff I think Art could be fine for ft-lamberts with this new C3X. For 2.35:1 it kind of depends on what changes they've made (like was the lens shut down some for the current C3X1080 to help CR partially because they didn't have a dynamic system), but you could definitely be right about the lumens being too much of a problem for Art there.
The HT5000 optics are at a very much higher level too. The straight through arrangement, rather than an alpha path engine ...Yep. That is one reason why I wonder if Art would still be happier with his HT5000 even with better on/off CR from this new C3X (even if they do a great job with the dynamic system), or whether that would tip things toward this new one for him. Between the better on/off CR of this new C3X and the better optics of the HT5000 I'm not sure which Art would pick, but the lumens are another difference to consider, like you said.

Obviously the best case for him for SIM2 would be if they come out with a similar improvement to the HT5000, but I would still love to have him get to compare this new C3X to his HT5000 and tell us what he thought. And I think this new C3X vs the new Christie LJG got would be interesting too at a screen size the C3X could support well.

--Darin

Remember its 3000 ANSI lumen, that will probably translate to around 1300/1400 D65 lumen. The current C3X1080 is rated at 2500 ANSI lumen, and provides around 1100 D65.One more coldmachine. Is that 1100 on low lamp or high lamp? In this case the article says that part of the high CR for the new one is from a dimmable lamp and I think I heard that the lamp was being run dynamically, so high lamp is what should provide both the highest lumens and the highest on/off CR (although dynamic), unless the range for using the lamp dynamically is as big when on low as when on high.

--Darin

Older DI implementations would cause lower fL on masked down scope content because of the black bars being factored into the overall scene brightness. Do modern DI processors work on the active picture area or still look at the whole pixel grid?

Obviously the best case for him for SIM2 would be if they come out with a similar improvement to the HT5000, but I would still love to have him get to compare this new C3X to his HT5000 and tell us what he thought. And I think this new C3X vs the new Christie LJG got would be interesting too at a screen size the C3X could support well.

I will back to back the new machine and an HT5k properly as soon as the new one is released. A number of people have already seen it, comments being favorable.

The fact that this machine is a HOST as well as a new internal chassis design should help mitigate some of the current issues with the 1080 that are footprint induced. The chip alignment is said the be better, but I never had an issue anyway. The MC adjustment was added fairly quickly and seems to do a good job.

The HT5k platform will not be standing still. I'm willing to bet my left nut that if the new machine works well, we will see an HT5k implementation. The 5k has been king of the domestic sector PJs for 2 years, so its due a makeover.

As you say, comparing at screen sizes the new machine can support would be very interesting indeed.

Older DI implementations would cause lower fL on masked down scope content because of the black bars being factored into the overall scene brightness. Do modern DI processors work on the active picture area or still look at the whole pixel grid?I don't know of any that take that into account. I haven't heard of any where the user sets the aspect ratio of the source for the DI, so they would have to sense it.

In a case like Art's he is using the full panel for 2.35:1 because he is using an anamorphic lens, so the above issue doesn't come into play.

--Darin

Older DI implementations would cause lower fL on masked down scope content because of the black bars being factored into the overall scene brightness. Do modern DI processors work on the active picture area or still look at the whole pixel grid?

What Darin said.:)

The majority of people using PJs of this level are using the full panel with an anamorphic lens.

the 5000 have the far better optic inside and for sure sim2 will work on a
new 5000 that have adaptive iris inside.

Older DI implementations would cause lower fL on masked down scope content because of the black bars being factored into the overall scene brightness. Do modern DI processors work on the active picture area or still look at the whole pixel grid?

This concerns me, since I will not be using an anamorphic lens in my set up, so I would like to know the answer to this question as well.

This concerns me, since I will not be using an anamorphic lens in my set up, so I would like to know the answer to this question as well.

The iris efnhances the entire chip. It has no way of knowing what part is active or not.

So, in essence, with a scope movie, the average of the entire panel is looked at, and the iris, and bulb modulated based on that average, so a bright image in a scope movie would be dimmed down 25%?

This would end up being problematic for me, since I am going with a constant area set up, with no lens, and my scope movies will be zoomed to fill the larger screen, while my 16x9 content will use the whole panel. I guess I would have to turn it off then.

Anyone have a guess as to what the CR would be, without DB engaged?

Free:

I do not think full panel vs zoomed should come into play regarding the DI performance

Well... as I understand it, a scope film would only take up the center portion of the panel. If you are doing constant height, you use a scaler to expand the scope source to fill the panel (vertical stretch) and then a lens to restore the proper shape, so the entire panel is used in that type of set up.

If you are just using a 16:9 screen, or a constant area set up, when watching 16:9 the panel is full, and watching scope there are black bars on top and bottom. The Dynamic Black system software then analyzes the average brightness of the entire panel, which for scope would be 25% black bars, even if you zoom it in to fill more of a 2.05:1 screen, so the software would think that 25% of the image is black, even if the scene is a sunny beach. Then it would clamp down the iris, and/or dim the bulb, thinking the scene is darker than it actually is.

Am I missing something here?

How hard would it be for Sim2 to add something to the software (say a 2.35:1 mode) that would ignore the top and bottom parts of the panel when calculating the modulation of the DB system?

Well... as I understand it, a scope film would only take up the center portion of the panel. If you are doing constant height, you use a scaler to expand the scope source to fill the panel (vertical stretch) and then a lens to restore the proper shape, so the entire panel is used in that type of set up.

If you are just using a 16:9 screen, or a constant area set up, when watching 16:9 the panel is full, and watching scope there are black bars on top and bottom. The Dynamic Black system software then analyzes the average brightness of the entire panel, which for scope would be 25% black bars, even if you zoom it in to fill more of a 2.05:1 screen, so the software would think that 25% of the image is black, even if the scene is a sunny beach. Then it would clamp down the iris, and/or dim the bulb, thinking the scene is darker than it actually is.

Am I missing something here?

How hard would it be for Sim2 to add something to the software (say a 2.35:1 mode) that would ignore the top and bottom parts of the panel when calculating the modulation of the DB system?

OK, so what you are all talking about is a software based deal. My mistake! :o Stupid posts removed!

Sean

The software drives the hardware, which in this case is probably a dynamic iris, and variable bulb output.

If you are just using a 16:9 screen, or a constant area set up, when watching 16:9 the panel is full, and watching scope there are black bars on top and bottom. The Dynamic Black system software then analyzes the average brightness of the entire panel, which for scope would be 25% black bars, even if you zoom it in to fill more of a 2.05:1 screen, so the software would think that 25% of the image is black, even if the scene is a sunny beach. Then it would clamp down the iris, and/or dim the bulb, thinking the scene is darker than it actually is.

Am I missing something here?While it would see the image as darker than it is, what it does with that information depends on the algorithms and I don't think most DI projectors would close down the iris at all for all white in the 2.35:1 area and then black bars. For the brightest 2.35:1 images the iris would probably be either open or very close to open and then you could think of this as basically being like using more aggressive DI algorithms. The effect probably isn't that large, but if they wanted to do something they would likely have to know whether the bars were masked or not (like they are in your case). If the bars aren't masked then it makes a lot of sense to include them in the algorithm since having those bars there affects what the user sees as black.

I think you should just try it and see if you like the way the DI works for 1.78:1 and 1.85:1 content and also whether you like the way it works for 2.35:1 content, then decide for each based on what you see. I doubt you'll notice enough difference from the algorithms including the black bars in analyzing the images (assuming they do) to make you go from preferring the DI on to preferring it off.

--Darin

Thanks Darin.

The latest firmware update for the C3X1080 cured my Playstation 3 issues in 1080p/60 mode as far as I can tell. I've put in the material where I noticed the digital red artifact popup.

I haven't tested the cable box yet.

Great news!! does that end your issues?

I just canceled my RS-20 pre-order after hearing what this new C3X1080 can do. Apparently they're shipping next week!

I just canceled my RS-20 pre-order after hearing what this new C3X1080 can do. Apparently they're shipping next week!

There are a small number of units out for demo already, so shipping should be very soon.

There are a small number of units out for demo already, so shipping should be very soon.

Have you had a chance to demo one yet? I'm very curious how it compares to the current C3X1080 which I got to demo in my HT recently.

I just canceled my RS-20 pre-order after hearing what this new C3X1080 can do. Apparently they're shipping next week!

Good decision. I just got my RS20, and based on my comparison with my C3X1080, I can already tell it will not hold a candle to the new Lumis.

Great news!! does that end your issues?

I haven't checked the cable box issue to see if it is still occurring, but no it still won't be the end of all my issues; I still have the screen moire to deal with. I'm having a hard time finding the best angle for the replacement AT screen. I'm going to spend some extra time on it this weekend. So far it seems to be in the range of 12 to 14 degrees using the materials they sent me set up the way they instructed.

Thankfully it may be the end of my PJ issues. Of course, if I want to upgrade, which I might want to do, then it doesn't make sense to work out the moire issues on this screen until I replace the projector, since the results may be different with a different PJ.

I am getting darn close to being completely finished with the equipment issues. Then I have some remote programming I need to fix up on the MX-3000. Right now I just have it set up to do the bare essentials for each piece of equipment, and no macros programmed into it yet.

I'm not sure how good I can get the screen to look without having to use a few pushes of the focus button in order to smear the pixels enough not to moire...

Right now it has to be way too unfocused to achieve a decent result, but I think with the new angle measurements I took using the material and compass that Stewartscreen sent me, it might be something I could live with, though I would rather have it completely focused considering the price of the PJ and the screen!

Good decision. I just got my RS20, and based on my comparison with my C3X1080, I can already tell it will not hold a candle to the new Lumis.

Ive just been testing an RS20. You are 100% correct.

I just canceled my RS-20 pre-order after hearing what this new C3X1080 can do. Apparently they're shipping next week!

You 2 have probably had a Fatwa put on you now.:D

Good decision. I just got my RS20, and based on my comparison with my C3X1080, I can already tell it will not hold a candle to the new Lumis.

Can you elaborate on your RS20/C3X1080 comparison?

after hearing what this new C3X1080 can do.

A review? Can you post a link?

Ive just been testing an RS20. You are 100% correct.



You 2 have probably had a Fatwa put on you now.:D

Haha, the audiophiles already had a Fatwa put on me for getting these (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1094517) and these (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1062777), and the subwoofer fanatics Fatwa'd me for this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1055559). :p

A review? Can you post a link?

Inside word from someone who has demo'd the Lumis.

I, too, am anxiously awaiting the Lumis. Does anybody have any confirmation on retail price? I heard around $37k, but am not sure how accurate this is.

I am also not entirely optimistic about it shipping next week due to things I have heard, but am hopeful to have this proven wrong.

I, too, am anxiously awaiting the Lumis. Does anybody have any confirmation on retail price? I heard around $37k, but am not sure how accurate this is.

I am also not entirely optimistic about it shipping next week due to things I have heard, but am hopeful to have this proven wrong.


$36,495 for a T1 or T2 lens. $37,995 with T3 lens


I wouldn't be surprised if shipping slips.

moire...Which material are you having trouble with. Apologies if it was mentioned previously. I might try a Lumis myself with a new screen. I've been looking hard at a DNP Epic, but considering going AT so wondered which is an issue.

Can you elaborate on your RS20/C3X1080 comparison?

Well... after hearing all the rave reviews from people who viewed the RS20 at the shows, I was probably expecting too much. It is probably better than anything under 10K, but still falls down on ANSI (Image is 2 Dimensional) and the colors are not very accurate (probably will improve with tweaking). The image is also on the soft side, although an improvement over the RS1. I also still see the same noise in the image I see with my RS1. The image still looks a little like a cartoon compared to the C3X. Very nice black level though. :)

Which material are you having trouble with. Apologies if it was mentioned previously. I might try a Lumis myself with a new screen. I've been looking hard at a DNP Epic, but considering going AT so wondered which is an issue.

Moire (screen door effect)

I think that's a fair assesment. I just got to play with one as well, and although an improvement over the RS-1/2, I still find the issues you described. I'm admittedly still in the Sim2 camp for overall image quality. My biz sells both, and to different markets, but personally I still prefer the Sim2 line. (The JVC is still a great value.)

Jim

My biz sells both, and to different markets, but personally I still prefer the Sim2 line. (The JVC is still a great value.)


Ever sell both to the same customer?

Moire (screen door effect)Moire and screen dor effect aren't the same thing, at all. I meant what screen material is causing you to have moire issues? If you are actually having moire issues. I presumed a perf or a weave.

If you actually meant screen door, that's a different animal. The 1080 DLP wont' be a problem for SDE for me. I don't sit *that* close.

Moire and screen dor effect aren't the same thing, at all. I meant what screen material is causing you to have moire issues? If you are actually having moire issues. I presumed a perf or a weave.

If you actually meant screen door, that's a different animal. The 1080 DLP wont' be a problem for SDE for me. I don't sit *that* close.

It is moire then.

I'm using Stewart Screen Microperf X2. They sent me materials to try and find the optimal hole-punch angle. They told me the issue is that once you introduce more than one chip into a DLP projector, it is hard to standardize the hole punch angles for a whole series of projectors due to variations in convergence between each projector.

They said some other three chip technologies are not as hard as DLP in this respect, such as SXRD. Once I find the optimal angle and get the new screen, it looks like I will still need to defocus the projector slightly. I haven't found any angle yet where I don't see moire at all, but if I minimize it enough, the defocus amount will be small enough to be unnoticeable.

I have used a Microperf2 screen and was moire free. I believe Art is the same.

I have used a Microperf2 screen and was moire free. I believe Art is the same.

Lucky you!

Do you calibrate your own projectors? Do your projectors allow you to fine tune the convergence?

I'm thinking of askin Stewart if I can fly someone out here to find the best angles for this PJ. I don't want to screw it up if there is a better angle than the one I am finding.

I didn't see any on Art's either when I visited. But it was a part social evening and I was just enjoying the great picture from the HT5k. Wasn't really watching for anamolies. Had it been there though, I think I'd have noticed. His PJ does have very good convergence though. Apparently Stewart is working with you to resolve so that's good anyway.

ever sell both to the same customer?

:d:d

Well... after hearing all the rave reviews from people who viewed the RS20 at the shows, I was probably expecting too much. It is probably better than anything under 10K, but still falls down on ANSI (Image is 2 Dimensional) and the colors are not very accurate (probably will improve with tweaking). The image is also on the soft side, although an improvement over the RS1. I also still see the same noise in the image I see with my RS1. The image still looks a little like a cartoon compared to the C3X. Very nice black level though. :)

Honestly, if JVC could market a projector that streets for just north of $6K that
performed as well as a $30K+ 3 chip DLP, there would be no market for DLP projectors. It really isn't a fair comparison.

Hi
I didn't see any on Art's either when I visited. But it was a part social evening and I was just enjoying the great picture from the HT5k. Wasn't really watching for anamolies. Had it been there though, I think I'd have noticed. His PJ does have very good convergence though. Apparently Stewart is working with you to resolve so that's good anyway.

Don't forget that Art has a ISCO lens so that could change the moire problem.

Rob

Don't forget that Art has a ISCO lens so that could change the moire problem.Hi Rob. I know, I made his lens transport/mount ;). But we watched a lot of different material that evening. Some 4:3 B&W from HDDVD (Casablanca) and some 16:9, both with the Isco in the off (no in light path) position.

It is moire then.

I'm using Stewart Screen Microperf X2. They sent me materials to try and find the optimal hole-punch angle. They told me the issue is that once you introduce more than one chip into a DLP projector, it is hard to standardize the hole punch angles for a whole series of projectors due to variations in convergence between each projector.

They said some other three chip technologies are not as hard as DLP in this respect, such as SXRD. Once I find the optimal angle and get the new screen, it looks like I will still need to defocus the projector slightly. I haven't found any angle yet where I don't see moire at all, but if I minimize it enough, the defocus amount will be small enough to be unnoticeable.


Very strange. I have no moire with the x2 and my HT 5000. Firing onto the old 0 degree microperf I did.

Art

Very strange. I have no moire with the x2 and my HT 5000. Firing onto the old 0 degree microperf I did.

Art

I don't see what is so strange about it? Stewart Screen told me it happens because of convergence issues. I just assumed it happens all the time, since they didn't act terribly surprised.

If the angle the holes are punched at do not line up correctly for the specific projector in question, the moire occurs. So they sent me a kit they use so I could find the best angle for them... The kit is a piece of board with the pattern on it and a compass to measure the angle that looks the best. Sadly, in some situations it can'tbe 100% perfect, so they offered alternative options, such as microperfing only a small section of the screen near the speakers or refunding money and making it non micro-perfed (not an option for me since I have a full size center channel), etc.

[QUOTE=QueueCumber;15344482]I don't see what is so strange about it? Stewart Screen told me it happens because of convergence issues. I just assumed it happens all the time, since they didn't act terribly surprised.

It surprises me since it would be odd for the panels to be skewed even a few degrees from one another. Of course I'm not Stewart but this is the first time I'd ever heard of moire with X2 microperf.

Art

There's more to Moire than the particular pj and screen material.

It's the interaction of the perf spacing with the pixel spacing, which changes with screen size.

I have no reason to think anything suspicious is going on...

One thing that was mentioned to me, is that many installers will de-focus the DLP PJ if there is moire present until the installer finds the right setting where the moire disappears (I forget what the installer terminology is for this). I've played around with this myself and it does work, but with the current screen I am using it has to be de-focused too much; the picture gets too soft. I believe I can be satisfied with the better angle I am finding using the instruments Stewart Screen sent me and the smaller amount of de-focus that would be required with that better angle.

I've accepted that it won't be perfect with an AT screen, but I do expect improvement over the current issues. Playing with the instruments Stewart Screen has sent me does show that a decent improvement can be made with a different angle cut to the microperfs. I still want to play with it more just in case. So far I've only played around with it using a white projected image. I want to try it with some other light colors just to see if anything new is revealed. I won't be able to do this until after the New Year though...

I've heard (and read online) that even without microperf material, many people de-focus their DLP PJs slightly because of how sharp the picture looks... A small amount of de-focus makes it look more like film.

i had terrible moire with dlp+ISCO because of an older mp screen with vertically aligned holes
now switched to an ORAY with holes in less number slightly and oriented diagonaly: NO MOIRE whatsoever!! the screen is invisible :)

pvc mp remains king of ac screens vs all woven fabric imho.
maintains ansi contrast, better brigthness, sharpness, "density".

I've heard (and read online) that even without microperf material, many people de-focus their DLP PJs slightly because of how sharp the picture looks... A small amount of de-focus makes it look more like film.

Q,

I have to fundamentally disagree with that philosophy for a number reasons........

1. The aim of a PJ is not to impart a given look, but to reproduce the source as accurately and transparently as possible. A good pj must be source agnostic. Not all source material is film, see #3

2. Film can be razor sharp as well as soft. A fresh print that of a film that was meant to be sharp will be very sharp,

3. Almost everything you see at the cinema on film has been through a 4k or 2k Digital Intermediate process no matter if it were originally captured on film. This means you are watching a digital image transferred back to film.


Some cinema based DCI machines, dlp and otherwise, have a defocus applied but the reasons for that are certainly NOT associated with achieving a certain look. Its to compensate for technical limitations.

Hope this helps

Q,

I have to fundamentally disagree with that philosophy for a number reasons........

1. The aim of a PJ is not to impart a given look, but to reproduce the source as accurately and transparently as possible. A good pj must be source agnostic. Not all source material is film, see #3

2. Film can be razor sharp as well as soft. A fresh print that of a film that was meant to be sharp will be very sharp,

3. Almost everything you see at the cinema on film has been through a 4k or 2k Digital Intermediate process no matter if it were originally captured on film. This means you are watching a digital image transferred back to film.


Some cinema based DCI machines, dlp and otherwise, have a defocus applied but the reasons for that are certainly NOT associated with achieving a certain look. Its to compensate for technical limitations.

Hope this helps

Helps with what? Your opinion has no bearing on my comments concerning the common practice of some installers (as stated by someone at Stewart Screen). Ultimately, I will have to make whatever compromises are necessary to deal with the limitations of my setup...

Helps with what?

I simply meant that I hoped that the information was in some way helpful to you, or anyone who read it. Thats what this place is all about.

Your opinion has no bearing on my comments concerning the common practice of some installers (as stated by someone at Stewart Screen).

Q, I think, by your tone you have misunderstood my intent,

My statement was not opinion, it is fact. It is certainly NOT common practice for good installers to defocus. Sharpness of image is one of the main advantages of DLP, why compromise it? Anyone who does is either hiding some limitation of equipment or his ability. Any good installer spends significant time ensuring the best possible focus, taking into consideration the ability of the machines optics to precisely focus the whole panel.

Ultimately, I will have to make whatever compromises are necessary to deal with the limitations of my setup...

That what we all need to do, no argument there.

Hope this helps further.:)

I simply meant that I hoped that the information was in some way helpful to you, or anyone who read it. Thats what this place is all about.



Q, I think, by your tone you have misunderstood my intent,

My statement was not opinion, it is fact. It is certainly NOT common practice for good installers to defocus. Sharpness of image is one of the main advantages of DLP, why compromise it? Anyone who does is either hiding some limitation of equipment or his ability. An go installer spends significant time ensuring the best possible focus, taking into consideration the ability of the machines optics to precisely focus the whole panel.



That what we all need to do, no argument there.

Hope this helps further.:)

Anyone try an SMX AT Screen? I notice Cineramax is using them with 1080p three chip projectors.There might be less moire when compared to Microperf?

Anyone try an SMX AT Screen? I notice Cineramax is using them with 1080p three chip projectors.There might be less moire when compared to Microperf?

They make great screens, but need to change the shade of the fabric on the masking panels before I'd consider using one.

I simply meant that I hoped that the information was in some way helpful to you, or anyone who read it. Thats what this place is all about.



Q, I think, by your tone you have misunderstood my intent,

My statement was not opinion, it is fact. It is certainly NOT common practice for good installers to defocus. Sharpness of image is one of the main advantages of DLP, why compromise it? Anyone who does is either hiding some limitation of equipment or his ability. An go installer spends significant time ensuring the best possible focus, taking into consideration the ability of the machines optics to precisely focus the whole panel.



That what we all need to do, no argument there.

Hope this helps further.:)

I said common practice of SOME installers... In any case I didn't say it, someone at Stewart did. I could always get a refund from them if the issue can't be fixed enough. I really don't see a lot of options considering the mounting space was built according to the Stewart case size...

I think the only reason I have ever heard for someone to de-focus a DLP, was if they were sitting too close, and could see pixels, like on a 720p projector. I have never defocused any DLP that I have owned, makes no sense to me.

They make great screens, but need to change the shade of the fabric on the masking panels before I'd consider using one.

Hi,
What's the issue with their fabric's shade on masking panels? Is it too light? I thought it was darker then Stewart.
Richard

I think the only reason I have ever heard for someone to de-focus a DLP, was if they were sitting too close, and could see pixels, like on a 720p projector. I have never defocused any DLP that I have owned, makes no sense to me.

Free, straight on the money

Thats exactly why the do it with DCI machines that are retro fitted into old cinemas with seat too close, or new cinemas where they just want to pack the seats in.

They also do it with those shite Sony 4k PJs, that they give away for free, due to the MC.

Hi,
What's the issue with their fabric's shade on masking panels? Is it too light? I thought it was darker then Stewart.
Richard

MrHiEnd,

The side masking panels of the SMX screens would indeed appear to be a lighter shade than the rest of the screen border. Strange, I wonder why SMX went with this design choice? Could it be something to do with maintaining the AT performance? It looks potentially distracting. Any SMX owners care to chime in?

The difference is apparent in this video (http://www.avforums.com/forums/avforums-video-productions/785094-cedia-expo-08-sim2-multimedia.html) showing the SMX ProMaskCurv.

Sean

MrHiEnd,

The side masking panels of the SMX screens would indeed appear to be a lighter shade than the rest of the screen border. Strange, I wonder why SMX went with this design choice? Could it be something to do with maintaining the AT performance? It looks potentially distracting. Any SMX owners care to chime in?

The difference is apparent in this video (http://www.avforums.com/forums/avforums-video-productions/785094-cedia-expo-08-sim2-multimedia.html) showing the SMX ProMaskCurv.

Sean

Hi Sean,

I don't want to take this thread off topic but since this was mentioned a few times in here and in other threads, I thought it would be best to explain.

When the lights are off in the theater and the movie is playing, our masks are the same color as our black hole velvet frame finish. When there are full lights on (like in the video you posted) the mask panels will be lighter.

Here is one of Peters (Cineramax) videos demonstrating our ProMask system with ambient lights on. ProMask Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX8Da_AuOkA)

Explanation:
The reason our AT mask panels are lighter than the rest of the frame is due to a couple of reasons. First, the black velvet upholstered finish we use on our frames and mask bars is unlike anything any other manufacturer uses. The other masking systems on the market are finished with a black flock which is an imitation velvet. This flock they use reflects much more light back than the velvet we use due to its low pile height, so their entire frame is a lighter black than our frame is.

Here is a side by side shot comparing our velvet against the black flock trim another major manufacture uses. This shot was done with both samples side by side at the same time with a flash from a camera hitting them.

The SmX velvet finish is on the left

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/trim-comparison.jpg

Now if we were to use the same flock finish like everyone else uses above, the mask panels would appear to be closer in color to the frame.

So far, the AT mask panels we use have the best acoustical and masking properties out of all the panels we tested to date but we are still testing as new ones become available. Our mask panels don't stretch like other mask panels meaning you don't have to re-calibrate your masking positions periodically.

With our frame and mask bars being as black as they are, they do the absolute best job compared to any system out there absorbing over-scanned strayed light from the projected image. This is just as important because you want a crisp black hole border precisely framing your projected image, you don't want to see the bleeding over-scanned image on the frame. The darker the frame the better perceived increased contrast and sharper border. The mask panels do their job of absorbing the black/grey projected bars.

Screen Research has been using lighter colored mask panels for many years and you would think they would of changed them by now if it was an issue. Keep in mind, they use a flock as well so the frame is much less light absorbing than ours, (see Screen Research mask system below)

http://www.smxscreen.com/images/CMASK051.jpg

Hopefully this post answered your question and doesn't take this thread off topic.

Best regards,
Ruben

Hi,
What's the issue with their fabric's shade on masking panels? Is it too light? I thought it was darker then Stewart.
Richard

The issue for me is that, no matter the technical explanations, I can see the difference when watching a movie. Im certainly not the only one either.

If you, or anyone else, cant see it then it is an otherwise great screen.

Any news on these new projectors?

The other issue with woven screen material is the loss in sharpness. A pixel grid cannot be made out on them and focus has to be performed with a sheet of paper in front of the screen. Apparently this varies somewhat with the degree of rotation but there is still a loss of resolution with woven material you don't get with a smooth screen. I'm debating going with a microperf for this reason or just accepting worse audio and placing speakers below the screen area as I am width challenged.

Any news on these new projectors?

The other issue with woven screen material is the loss in sharpness. A pixel grid cannot be made out on them and focus has to be performed with a sheet of paper in front of the screen. Apparently this varies somewhat with the degree of rotation but there is still a loss of resolution with woven material you don't get with a smooth screen. I'm debating going with a microperf for this reason or just accepting worse audio and placing speakers below the screen area as I am width challenged.


congratulations...most men are length challenged:)

heh. A local radio station in my hometown (Memphis, TN) once had a debate about length vs width on the morning show and a woman called in to say "My boyfriend's hung like a can of corn and I love it." They played that sound clip over and over again for years...

I'm debating going with a microperf for this reason or just accepting worse audio and placing speakers below the screen area as I am width challenged.

I have the same issue. I am very limited in terms of width. I'm not keen on having the speakers below and to the side of the screen either, but it is a question of what is the best compromise, if AT is even a compromise at all?

It is looking very difficult to avoid having to go AT, but for a dedicated HT, is this really such a bad thing? How much are you compromising the audio and the video with an AT screen, given how many of the great rooms run this set-up?

This is my first projector set-up and I am finding it hard to separate the dogma I have encountered about AT being bad for all aspects of a system, from the reality :confused:.

Sean

My case is a little odd so take it with a grain of salt.

Being width challenged and still wanting a good two channel system in the same room, I opted for an AT screen that would swivel up and hug the ceiling when I wanted to listen to music. This works fine (with a bit of elbow grease), but the woven material detracts from the picture quality.

You can still have an AT screen with excellent HT audio. I believe a woven screen has better audio characteristics than a microperft but the microperf definitely has better video qualities. You should be able to eq the sound to compensate for either, so it really should come down to the video quality of the two AT materials. Perfed vinyl is better than woven material in my opinion.

There have been debates about whether the audio is sacrificed too much in going with an AT screen, but I think most will be fine with it and it is nice to hear the sound coming from the screen.

i had terrible moire with dlp+ISCO because of an older mp screen with vertically aligned holes
now switched to an ORAY with holes in less number slightly and oriented diagonaly: NO MOIRE whatsoever!! the screen is invisible :)

pvc mp remains king of ac screens vs all woven fabric imho.
maintains ansi contrast, better brigthness, sharpness, "density".

Exactly so in my experience.

Art

My case is a little odd so take it with a grain of salt.

I tend to think that AT probably can be made to sound & look just amazing (otherwise, why else would Art, et al run it :cool:) but you now how it is when you get too many different opinions on the same subject :confused:.

At some point I will make a choice and whatever the out come, I will defend it with obsessive zeal and pride!! :p Well OK, maybe not.

I will be getting expert help along the way! :)

Sean

All I can do is say any of you who would like a demo of audio and video in my theater drop me an email. Bring along known software too.

Art

There have been debates about whether the audio is sacrificed too much in going with an AT screen, but I think most will be fine with it and it is nice to hear the sound coming from the screen.

LJ, Anyone who is debating that audio is compromised is simply wrong. The audio profile of the screens are very well known and easily taken into account. All the best rooms use correction anyway.

I put 3 Genelec 324As behind an AT screen. The results were devastatingly good. Off axis performance was not an issue.

For those asking about the effect on the sound, if properly installed, your looking at around 2db at the higher end. RT60 remains minuscule.

Make sure nothing, at any masking position, blocks tweeter LOS to seating position and all should be well.

Guys - I didn't mean to imply that I think audio is compromised with AT. I don't. I was only referring to threads on AVS where this has been debated. Again, I think any effects an AT screen has on the frequency response can be corrected for and audio can sound excellent.

Guys - I didn't mean to imply that I think audio is compromised with AT. I don't. I was only referring to threads on AVS where this has been debated. Again, I think any effects an AT screen has on the frequency response can be corrected for and audio can sound excellent.

LJ, I know you weren't, and don't wish to give the impression that I thought you were.:)

CM ,
I'm glad you posted that comment about room correction. There are a few who feel differently but I'm one who agrees that it is part of optimizing a home theater.

Art

Interesting discussion. Thanks for your insight Art!

CM ,
I'm glad you posted that comment about room correction. There are a few who feel differently but I'm one who agrees that it is part of optimizing a home theater.

Art

No probs, I think we sing from the same hymn sheet on most issues.

Anyone who feels differently is doing themselves, and their equipment, a very serious disservice.

I certainly don't need to tell you the huge difference good correction makes. It literally night and day.

Argh! The suspense is killing me. Any idea when we might hear more about the Lumis??

Kevin

Probably at CES they should have a unit.

It better be pretty freaking good, last night I just saw a head to head shootout with C3X 1080 and the new JVC RS20 and Sim2 better have put some mighty efforts into this unit or they could get spanked rather badly in the marketplace.

Probably at CES they should have a unit.

It better be pretty freaking good, last night I just saw a head to head shootout with C3X 1080 and the new JVC RS20 and Sim2 better have put some mighty efforts into this unit or they could get spanked rather badly in the marketplace.

Can you give more details of the shootout? Some people on the HD750 thread have made similar comments, while others have the opposite opinion.

I'm a bit peeved. I thought some of my problems with the C3X 1080 were gone, but they are all still there. I must have been looking at the wrong screen after the hardware flash. All the 1080p/60 problems are back and the cablebox issues never went away (red streamers flying across the screen). I didn't get a chance to really check it out until after vacation...

If anyone is trying to decide, get the JVC IMO. I've had nothing but problems with my Sim2 experiences. My Sony Pearl before this, while not as sharp a 1080p picture, was much more reliable and didn't have any of these problems with the same exact equipment... :(

I'm a bit peeved. I thought some of my problems with the C3X 1080 were gone, but they are all still there. I must have been looking at the wrong screen after the hardware flash. All the 1080p/60 problems are back and the cablebox issues never went away (red streamers flying across the screen). I didn't get a chance to really check it out until after vacation...

If anyone is trying to decide, get the JVC IMO. I've had nothing but problems with my Sim2 experiences. My Sony Pearl before this, while not as sharp a 1080p picture, was much more reliable and didn't have any of these problems with the same exact equipment... :(


I'm sorry if you have discussed this but have you let SIM know you need satisfaction on this ? They have been more than great in all of my dealings with them.

Art

I'm sorry if you have discussed this but have you let SIM know you need satisfaction on this ? They have been more than great in all of my dealings with them.

Art

I'm dealing with AVS Store at this point. Sim2 was useless with one of my previous problems...

I too have had excellent service from Sim2. Just recently, a video board went bad, 1yr in, and almost 500 hours on the lamp. They replaced it with a brand new projector!! They do prefer that you go through your dealer though.

I'd also like to weigh in that Sim's always been great if there have been any issues, and it's been the saw way since 1999, when I bought my first Sim2/Seleco pro.

Q, I advise patience, and beyond that, I've decided to get a backup ride for the Ferraris' trips to the shop, which helps. btw here's some good news that should cheer you up some: http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/61941477

As far as the head to head, I didn't mean to imply that the Sim was spanked, rather that the gap has closed significantly and if money is an object... We came out of the meet saying damn, if only DLP had this kind of contrast, now that would be something :D

Q, I advise patience, and beyond that, I've decided to get a backup ride for the Ferraris' trips to the shop, which helps.

That implies that I haven't been patient; I don't appreciate that. It has been around a year now, and I have only had a properly and/or fully functional projector for perhaps three weeks out of that year, not to mention the large portion of the year I spent without a projector at all. Any worthwhile premium I paid for this unit went out the window months ago. There is a point where patience stops and you just become a doormat.

I can understand having a problem with one, perhaps two, but this is simply ridiculous... I've consulted with a few people outside AVS Forum, and there seems to be a confluence of agreement that this situation is unacceptable.

That implies that I haven't been patient; I don't appreciate that. It has been around a year now, and I have only had a properly and/or fully functional projector for perhaps three weeks out of that year, not to mention the large portion of the year I spent without a projector at all. Any worthwhile premium I paid for this unit went out the window months ago. There is a point where patience stops and you just become a doormat.

I can understand having a problem with one, perhaps two, but this is simply ridiculous... I've consulted with a few people outside AVS Forum, and there seems to be a confluence of agreement that this situation is unacceptable.


why don't you deal with Sim customer servce directly rather than AVS store which has not met your expectations.
I am curious as to how you stated the firmware upgrade resolved the issue but now it is back:confused:

why don't you deal with Sim customer servce directly rather than AVS store which has not met your expectations.
I am curious as to how you stated the firmware upgrade resolved the issue but now it is back:confused:

Do you even read my posts before you respond? :confused:

You can answer your own questions if you read my posts... Plus, please stop making assumptions about things I never posted (e.g., about AVS Store).

We understand you are pissed off, as you have a right to be, especially if this has gone on for a year, but we're trying to help you out here, not beat the Sim2 drum so there's no need to get snarky. I've had problems too, yes, even been through 3 1080's also but customer service has been nothing less than responsive and bent over backwards to fix any issues both recently and over almost a decade of owning their projectors. It would be good to understand why your experience has been so different from myself and others dealing with Sim2's customer service that have been adequately resolved.

We understand you are pissed off, as you have a right to be, especially if this has gone on for a year, but we're trying to help you out here, not beat the Sim2 drum so there's no need to get snarky. I've had problems too, yes, even been through 3 1080's also but customer service has been nothing less than responsive and bent over backwards to fix any issues both recently and over almost a decade of owning their projectors. It would be good to understand why your experience has been so different from myself and others dealing with Sim2's customer service that have been adequately resolved.

You'll have to ask Sim2; I have no idea why.

By and by, I don't appreciate you mischaracterizing my posts as "snarky" either. :(

Do you even read my posts before you respond? :confused:

You can answer your own questions if you read my posts... Plus, please stop making assumptions about things I never posted (e.g., about AVS Store).

someone pi$$ in your cornflakes today

Here is what you said
I'm dealing with AVS Store at this point. Sim2 was useless with one of my previous problems


all in all you are one unhappy dude. Perhaps you should read your own posts

someone pi$$ in your cornflakes today

Here is what you said



all in all you are one unhappy dude. Perhaps you should read your own posts

Let me rephrase it: Sim2 was absolutely useless with one of the previous problems, therefore I am dealing with AVS Store at this point.

I'm done posting on this for now. Happy Three Kings Day!

i'm done posting on this for now.

tfft.

tfft.

Nice...

In return I wish you nothing but happiness. :)

Nice...

In return I wish you nothing but happiness. :)

I knew I could draw you back in again with that post.:D:D

I just won a crate of beer.

CM, I thought you were having a Bill The Cat moment.

I knew I could draw you back in again with a single post.:D:D

I didn't say I wouldn't post at all! ;)

CM, I thought you were having a Bill The Cat moment.

Good reference. I loved that comic (Bloom County)...

While we are waiting for some first reports, one thing has been bothering me. From the pictures I have seen, there is no HDMI output for audio on the HOST box. What is the purpose of the 6 HDMI inputs, if you are going to want to go through an AVR/processor first for audio?

This is one of my complaints. Guess it will require a splitter on each input, or end up just being a box at the end of the chain.

While we are waiting for some first reports, one thing has been bothering me. From the pictures I have seen, there is no HDMI output for audio on the HOST box. What is the purpose of the 6 HDMI inputs, if you are going to want to go through an AVR/processor first for audio?

When I had the HT5000, I used a programmable HDMI matrix.

This allows each input to pass to any output, or number of outputs. One output is connected to the audio, and each input is programmed to duplicate to that output. This works very elegantly and retains the ability for per input calibration. Anyone who wants a more in depth explanation on how this is done, just shout.

Units that didn't need HDMI audio were routed direct and had audio passed via digital. Also, dont forget that SIM2 PJs have an optical out which can greatly simplify wiring, the HOST units retain this facility on the electronics unit.

Hope this helps.

This is one of my complaints. Guess it will require a splitter on each input, or end up just being a box at the end of the chain.

See above.

Anyone who wants a more in depth explanation on how this is done, just shout.

Big shout here! :)

Sean

CM: which matrix did you use, I forgot. I figure if you used it and were happy with it, no need to have to do much detailed research. Thanks, Scott

Also, dont forget that SIM2 PJs have an optical out which can greatly simplify wiring, the HOST units retain this facility on the electronics unit.

Hope this helps.

Shout from me too, and what does the above mean? Are you saying that the projector itself has an optical output? I don't really see where this is helpful. All Sim2 had to do is put an HDMI out from their Host, and all this brain damage and expense would be unnecessary.

CM: which matrix did you use, I forgot. I figure if you used it and were happy with it, no need to have to do much detailed research. Thanks, Scott

I had an RT COM 6x6 installed. Not the cheapest but compliant with everything and totally reliable. Integrates really easily too.

http://www.digitalextender.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=19


Gefen do a consumer orientated one but Ive seen mixed reports. I believe Zektor, who I rate massively, are releasing a couple soon. There are others too.

Shout from me too, and what does the above mean? Are you saying that the projector itself has an optical output? I don't really see where this is helpful. All Sim2 had to do is put an HDMI out from their Host, and all this brain damage and expense would be unnecessary.

1. An HDMI out from the host would have been the obvious solution. Im pissed that they didn't implement that.

2. Most SIM2 PJs have an optical out.


Also, the simple fact remains that if you dont need calibration of each individual i/p it doesn't matter anyway.

Big shout here!

This is how I operated with my HT5000.

Its really simple. An HDMI matrix has a number of inputs and a number of outputs. It allows you to connect any input to any combination of outputs. A 4x4, for example matrix has 4 of each.

One output, lets say o/p 4, is connected to the processor or receiver. o/p 1-3 are connected to the PJ. Connect a BDP to i/p 1 and have the signal sent to o/p 1&4.Thats one each to the PJ and receiver. Lets say you connect an HD-DVD to i/p 2, you send its signal to o/p 2 and 4 and repeat as necessary. Very straightforward.

You may notice that you will have one less o/p to the PJ than i/p as one is tied to the receiver. If you do need that last i/p try to ensure its one that you wont need a separate i/p calibration for on the PJ, that way you can send it to the same o/p as another source as you cant watch 2 on the same PJ. I used a 6x6 so this wasn't an issue. for me.

Remember....If a source is not HD audio capable it can be connected direct to the PJ and an digital cable used to feed audio to the processor.

I've probably made it sound more difficult than it actually is. Once set up and integrated into your control system its totally transparent.

I suppose this would work as well.. if you have only two sources with advanced audio.

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/4x4-hdmi-matrx-switch.html

....Still trying to figure out what advantage it is to have an optical out on the projector.:confused:

I suppose this would work as well.. if you have only two sources with advanced audio.

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/4x4-hdmi-matrx-switch.html

....Still trying to figure out what advantage it is to have an optical out on the projector.:confused:

Why only 2 sources of HD audio, it should be 4, or am I missing something?

It should allow 3 connections to the HOST and 1 to the audio, but still utilize all 4 i/ps.

As for an optical out on the PJ.....You can connect a number of sources to the PJ, and only use 1 optical i/p on a processor. Probably not a big deal these days

I suppose this would work as well.. if you have only two sources with advanced audio.

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/4x4-hdmi-matrx-switch.html

....Still trying to figure out what advantage it is to have an optical out on the projector.:confused:

be aware of low cost matrix switchers that say 1.3 compatible: inside you will find the fine print with disclaimers: and they are very slow in switch times

be aware of low cost matrix switchers that say 1.3 compatible: inside you will find the fine print with disclaimers: and they are very slow in switch times

Couldn't agree more.

I hope the Zektor units hit soon, as they will be reasonably priced. They make outstanding products and Ive put a few AVS members onto them. Alan loves them too, and they get used in may very high end installs due to their reliability.

Why only 2 sources of HD audio, it should be 4, or am I missing something?


Well... right now, the only HD audio source I have is Blu-Ray. I am hoping that VUDU steps up to the plate soon, so that would make 2. What are the other 2 that you are using?

Well... right now, the only HD audio source I have is Blu-Ray. I am hoping that VUDU steps up to the plate soon, so that would make 2. What are the other 2 that you are using?

I see. You meant that it would do for you specifically and that you only have 2, NOT that it can only handle 2.

The internet is terrible for missing subtle communication cues.:D

I was considering selling my Radiance when moving to the C3X, but I might as well keep it, especially since I just paid for the XE upgrade. It seems like a waste to go with the HOST unit when I would use only one HDMI input, also considering the inconvenience of having to run the fiber optic cables. However, I understand part of the performance improvement may be due to getting the processing hardware out of the C3X case.

From what I understand the projector runs cooler and quieter, because of the outboard unit. I agree though, I will probably end up just mounting the host right next to the projector and bundling up the fiber cable, because it is not worth the hassle, and stick with my Crystallio.

When I had the HT5000, I used a programmable HDMI matrix.


What did you replace the HT5000 with?

What did you replace the HT5000 with?

Im down to a shortlist of the Christie 10k and the DPI Lightning Reference. I will also take note of whats happening with the PD Helios. I will be auditioning as soon as I get time.

If I hadn't moved house, and gone for a bigger screen, I probably would have stayed with the HT5000 and waited for the new version.

From what I understand the projector runs cooler and quieter, because of the outboard unit. I agree though, I will probably end up just mounting the host right next to the projector and bundling up the fiber cable, because it is not worth the hassle, and stick with my Crystallio.

I was thinking about doing the same thing - mounting the HOST box somewhere near my ceiling mount.:eek:

Edit: Just looked over my CEDIA pictures again. Maybe I could build a shelf or box and stack it like they did. The feet kind of hang over the edge of the box though.:p

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9421/lumisfrontlp7.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6743/lumisbackqc7.jpg

Thanks for that coldmachine.

I think I understand, but I know that when I read it again tomorrow, when I have consumed less Nastro Azzuro, it will make perfect sense! :D

It is a strange decision of Sim not to have "an HDMI audio out" I used to have an optoma scaler that had this feature.

I am going to Sim UK HQ on Monday and I will see what reason is given for this unfortunate circumstance. However, although I am obviously very important, I don't expect my concerns will persuade them to redesign the HOST box ;)

Sean



This is how I operated with my HT5000.

Its really simple. An HDMI matrix has a number of inputs and a number of outputs. It allows you to connect any input to any combination of outputs. A 4x4, for example matrix has 4 of each.

One output, lets say o/p 4, is connected to the processor or receiver. o/p 1-3 are connected to the PJ. Connect a BDP to i/p 1 and have the signal sent to o/p 1&4.Thats one each to the PJ and receiver. Lets say you connect an HD-DVD to i/p 2, you send its signal to o/p 2 and 4 and repeat as necessary. Very straightforward.

You may notice that you will have one less o/p to the PJ than i/p as one is tied to the receiver. If you do need that last i/p try to ensure its one that you wont need a separate i/p calibration for on the PJ, that way you can send it to the same o/p as another source as you cant watch 2 on the same PJ. I used a 6x6 so this wasn't an issue. for me.

Remember....If a source is not HD audio capable it can be connected direct to the PJ and an digital cable used to feed audio to the processor.

I've probably made it sound more difficult than it actually is. Once set up and integrated into your control system its totally transparent.

Any news of the Lumis at CES, when it's shipping etc?

Still waiting to see if it will beat out the new JVC... :-D

Any news of the Lumis at CES, when it's shipping etc?

Still waiting to see if it will beat out the new JVC... :-D

It shipped last week.

I bought an RS20 2 weeks ago, not for personal use, and was able to test back to back with the original C3X1080. There are others here who have done the same. The C3X1080 is very clearly better than the new JVCs, as should be expected, so I expect the Lumis to widen the gap. The only advantage the JVC had was on/off CR. In all other areas it was inferior.....ANSI, Color, CMS, Sharpness, brightness,Image noise, Depth, VP flexibility, uniformity, motion artifacts and blur, hazing etc. Its also inferior to the better single chip units too, suffering the same disadvantages.

I honestly don't think its a fair comparison. They're tools for very different jobs, and different customers.

The RS20 is great for the price, but certainly not worthy of the deification we see in certain quarters.

I concur with Coldmachine's observations of the C3X 1080 vs the RS20. I should have a Lumis soon, and have no doubt it will easily outperform the JVC.

What length fiber is it coming with?

Alan,

Can you test the Teranex 1080p23.98 and 1080sf23.98 outputs with the host HD-SDI input?

Cold

How big is your new screen?

Cold

How big is your new screen?

18ft wide, masks fully open.

18ft wide, masks fully open.

You decided to decrease the size from 20 to 18. I remember you mentioned your aim was 20ft. Still, that is a pretty 'big' screen. :)

Have you finalized the associated equipment or still auditioning for that as well?

Good luck.

You decided to decrease the size from 20 to 18. I remember you mentioned your aim was 20ft. Still, that is a pretty 'big' screen. :)

Have you finalized the associated equipment or still auditioning for that as well?

Good luck.

H,

I had to drop to 18ft to avoid lowering the floor. The basement level isn't something I didn't want to trash, so 18ft it is.

Almost all equipment is finalized.

H,

I had to drop to 18ft to avoid lowering the floor. The basement level isn't something I didn't want to trash, so 18ft it is.

Almost all equipment is finalized.

Can you please list it? I would request you for a new thread with pictures but if its not possible then it is fine.

Almost all equipment is finalized.

CM, a summary of your equipment and design choices, and the reasoning behind them, would be of great interest.

Cold machine,
What " the gain of your 18 ft 2:35 screen? Is it perforated?
what Foot lamberts will you achieve with the lumis?
Ash

Cold machine,
What " the gain of your 18 ft 2:35 screen? Is it perforated?
what Foot lamberts will you achieve with the lumis?
Ash

Hey Ash..

Cna this machine light up a big screen or is CM talking about a diff't PJ? Thread is too long to read..

He says it can light it up.
The projector is 3000 lumens.... I am headed to Sim at the Hilton Las Vegas in few minutes....Hope to see it in action.
I love the Host concept, it will make the projector dead quiet and no glass needed on port hole.

He says it can light it up.
The projector is 3000 lumens.... I am headed to Sim at the Hilton Las Vegas in few minutes....Hope to see it in action.
I love the Host concept, it will make the projector dead quiet and no glass needed on port hole.

Please post back... If this thing could light up my 14' microperf, I'd take a serious gander at it...

What is the MSRP??

What is this Host? Any article or press release I could learn about it. Is it a Video Processor..? See you at CES next year!!!

Cold machine,
What " the gain of your 18 ft 2:35 screen? Is it perforated?
what Foot lamberts will you achieve with the lumis?
Ash

The screen will be a standard 1.3gain AT screen ( thus around 1.15 gain)

The Lumis wont come close to an 18ft screen at high lumens. The 3000Lumen is actually ANSI lumen. Im expecting around 1400/1500 lumen at a guess.

For the big screen I need way more light. Im looking at the Christie 10k-m and a DPI Lightning reference. I want the ability to hit 30fL this time.

CM,

How would this Lumis do on a 14' wide 1.3 gain Microperf??

MSRP?

CM,

How would this Lumis do on a 14' wide 1.3 gain Microperf??

MSRP?

Cant say till we see real numbers. I think 14ft may be pushing it, depending on your fL requirements

One of the main complaints with the 1080 was that it didn't have the brightness of the old C3X720, the Lumis is trying to address that.

I think its $37k for T1/T2 lens and $38k for T3. If thats not exact, its close.

I'd like 18-20 ft lamberts... Thanks!

I'd like 18-20 ft lamberts... Thanks!

Jeff,

How come you never got yourself an HT5000?

Sean

What is this Host? Any article or press release I could learn about it. Is it a Video Processor.

High-Definition Optical Signal Transfer (H.O.S.T.). Its not a VP. It basically rips out the electronocs from the PJ and puts it in a remote box connected by fiber.

The inputs are then massively expanded to equal the HT5000.....6 HDMI, HDSDI, 4 component etc.

Here is a video on it.

http://uk.cinenow.com/videos/1580-sim2-new-host-optical-signal-transfer-device-cedia-expo-london-2008


That website is well worth bookmarking and exploring.

I'd like 18-20 ft lamberts... Thanks!

The HT5k would be needed I think. Im also willing to bet that all the new Lumis stuff will be seen in an HT5k implementation.

CM, a summary of your equipment and design choices, and the reasoning behind them, would be of great interest.

When I get time I will try to put something down. Im pushed for time atm and do most posting from an iPhone whilst traveling.

Its actually a whole house install thats going on, so it would be nigh on impossible to explain the main HT without referring to the whole thing especially with the control system, distribution, and sources.

Jeff,
I saw the lumis..... It is awesome.
It is not enough for my 12 foot 2:35 Perf screen specially because of the 25 foot throw.
The new HT 5000 E with Darkchip 4 an 10 bit processing was better looking than the lumis. And my humble opinion way better than the HT 5000.
The picture had no digital look and looked like a sharp SXRD with deep blacks.
It retails for 70K and is better looking than Digital Projection Titan which I really liked.
Ash

Ash:

There is no difference between the HT5000 and HT5000E other than HDMI 1.3, the Dark Chip3plus and Dark chip4 are exactly the same.

What you probably witnessed and what impressed you was the Source material. Also there may have been DCI color filtering to the Demo HT5000E

LJG
How about 10 bit processing in 5000E versus 8 in 5000?
I saw the Elton John Blu Ray on the Lumis and asked them to show Same content on 5000 E and found 5000 E to be very different from 5000 which I haveauditioned many timesbut never liked it (both projectors were in different rooms).
Funny that 1 year ago I auditioned the 5000 at a dealer in Houston and talked to the Sim salesperson who was visiting Houston from Sim HQ.... the same person was in the demo today along with thier technicians and they confirmed that 5000E is very different from the 5000.
Also, the CR announced is 6000. . . . I am sure we will know more once sumo one has taken real world measurements.
Ash

Ash:

How about NOT, the HT5000 has 10 Bit processing, NO changes other than HDMI 1.3

Ash,

What is the issue with the 25 foot throw resulting in this projector not being bright enough for your 12 foot mp screen,

I use a C3x720 rated at 2500 lm and I have a 25 foot throw.

I would have thought that the lumis would be brighter than my already bright C3x.

Ash:

How about NOT, the HT5000 has 10 Bit processing, NO changes other than HDMI 1.3

This is correct.

Jim

I'd like 18-20 ft lamberts... Thanks!

If this thing pumps out that plus great sequential contrast and good panel alignment you my have your next projector Jeff.

Art

For the big screen I need way more light. Im looking at the Christie 10k-m and a DPI Lightning reference. I want the ability to hit 30fL this time.

Wouldn't a dual-lamp Sim2 provide the brightness you need?

Wouldn't a dual-lamp Sim2 provide the brightness you need?

Unfortunately Not.

The dual lamp HT5000 only provides around 30% more light than the single lamp. This is due to the lamp arrangement allowing perfect uniformity in single mode. There is a way to get double the light from dual lamp PJs but that trashes single lamp performance.

Also, the CR announced is 6000

You will get that, as well as the 10 bit processing and the DC4 performance, from a normal HT5000.

As LJG stated, it may be the source that's impressing you, and the fact that there may be new filters fitted to hit DCI color with the special source used.

It that is the reason, and it had that effect on your viewing, it bodes well.

I believe Jason from AVS will be reporting in detail on this. He already confirmed the demo unit was set up to display DCI color.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1106276

There should also be some exclusive color and gamma tables for this system.

I sure wish that the lumis works for me and I can get 20 ft lamberts us it is quiet well priced and looked awesome.
Dont know why everyone at Sim told me that it is not the projector for me.
Ash

I sure wish that the lumis works for me and I can get 20 ft lamberts us it is quiet well priced and looked awesome.
Dont know why everyone at Sim told me that it is not the projector for me.
Ash

Ash,

What is your screen gain?

12ft @ 2.35 with a 1.15 gain (1.3 cloth with mperf x2) using a guesstimated 1400 lumen (possibly conservative) will give just over 26fL. 1600 would give 30fL.

The old 720 version of C3X would certainly light up your screen.......addendum........... just saw Warrens post above, which confirms.

Ive currently got 2 C3X1080 lighting up 10.5 ft 2.35 screens with tons of light.

Unless Im missing something, Im also not sure why they would say the Lumis is not for you, other than to sell an HT5000.

I think once we know what the actual lumen value is when calibrated we will have a much better piture of who this is right for.


I hate lateral moves, personally, because you end up second guessing yourself.

Art

I would have thought that the lumis would be brighter than my already bright C3x.

I hope so.

The C3X1080 is not as bright as the C3X720 and was one of the main complaints, so just addressing the difference would be good. Beating out the C3X720 would move the Lumis closer to the HT5k in terms of brightness.

I'm getting about 12 ft lamberts on my Qualia now (1000 hrs on bulb). It is not too distracting believe it or not, but I am wanting more punch and more detail in darker scenes (with less punch on my wallet).

If I could get 18 ft lamberts on a broken in bulb, I'd be happy.

What is the formula for figurng out ft lamberts given a PJs lumens?...

Like Ash, I have a slightly larger screen @ 14' wide Microperf X2 (2.35), ISCO (10.5' wide for 16:9)

I think once we know what the actual lumen value is when calibrated we will have a much better piture of who this is right for.


I hate lateral moves, personally, because you end up second guessing yourself.

Art

I agree.


Whilst Im interested in the Lumis as a customer,Im really interested in how all the new developments and tweaks actually look because you know they will be putting it all into other machines.....Bigger machines.

BTW - Any news on Sony's supposed Qualia replacement???

I can also confirm that my C3X1080 produces a lot of light. I'm at 900+ hours and getting 22 ftl on a 100" (just over 8' wide) 16x9 screen. That's at D65 with the lamp at 220 from a 19 foot throw. When I go scope, my image is 11' wide; the ISCO then moves into the path and light output diminishes by 30% or so, but it's more than adequate.

The screen is Stewart Firehawk Microperf x2 Cinecurve I am not sure of the gain, I will check.
They were showing DCI from the Entertaiment Server which really looked bad and even thier sales person admitted. The 5000 t is not a DCI machine.
It would be the classical marketing situation when a product positioned as lower end (lumis) can eat into sales of the higher end piece (HT 5000 E).
I am getting tired of living with the anemic (light output) Qualia and low CR and have looked everywhere and at a very broad price range for a suitable projector last few years.
It was interesting that the salesperson wanted to show off new convergence software on the 5000 and used the remote in the menu system only to find that only Lumis has this super duper software.
I did question the fact that the Host does not have HDMI out ( got Deer in a headlight look) which would be great for HDMI audio switching but they reccomended that I buy a switcher...
They were talking of the different light paths in the two projectors but I am not technical enough to understand.
Subject to final lumen numbers, with a 70,000 msrp 5000 being overshadowed by a 38000 Dollar lumis, I am leaning towards not spending a huge sum when something better will come out just a few months later.
I might just visit the Sim suite one more time today a I leave for from at 2:00 PM.
I asked Sony about Qualia, they did not knowwhat I was talkingabout.
CES is not a place for serious video and audio, it is a gadget show. I spent too much money shopping (great stores here some of which not even the galleria in Houston has) and met some friends who live in Vegas.... it was a good time.
I hope this is the one.

The screen is Stewart Firehawk Microperf x2 Cinecurve I am not sure of the gain, I will check.
They were showing DCI from the Entertaiment Server which really looked bad and even thier sales person admitted. The 5000 t is not a DCI machine.
It would be the classical marketing situation when a product positioned as lower end (lumis) can eat into sales of the higher end piece (HT 5000 E).
I am getting tired of living with the anemic (light output) Qualia and low CR and have looked everywhere and at a very broad price range for a suitable projector last few years.
It was interesting that the salesperson wanted to show off new convergence software on the 5000 and used the remote in the menu system only to find that only Lumis has this super duper software.
I did question the fact that the Host does not have HDMI out ( got Deer in a headlight look) which would be great for HDMI audio switching but they reccomended that I buy a switcher...
They were talking of the different light paths in the two projectors but I am not technical enough to understand.
Subject to final lumen numbers, with a 70,000 msrp 5000 being overshadowed by a 38000 Dollar lumis, I am leaning towards not spending a huge sum when something better will come out just a few months later.
I might just visit the Sim suite one more time today a I leave for from at 2:00 PM.
I asked Sony about Qualia, they did not knowwhat I was talkingabout.
CES is not a place for serious video and audio, it is a gadget show. I spent too much money shopping (great stores here some of which not even the galleria in Houston has) and met some friends who live in Vegas.... it was a good time.
I hope this is the one.

Ash, OT but next time you may want to check out THE Show at the Alexis Park hotel. Very serious audio there and it seems to be where the high end manufcturers have moved as the venue is better suited for room setup and is less money for some of smaller hiend vendors to show. It's where some of the most interesting Hiend is happening during CES. When I go, I usually spend 80% of my time there vs. CES.

BTW, what is the convergence software - is it 1 pixel only or is it fraction of pixel capability like the Sony's?

What is the formula for figurng out ft lamberts given a PJs lumens?...



lumens x gain/screen area in sq ft = ft L


Art

Owl,
Thanks...
After implementing 3 Aerial 20t Version 2 as my front LCR driven by 3 theta citadel 1.5 and Dreadnaught for my 6 surround Triad platinums, I am done with the audio for now.
It is video I seek...

Ash:

Did you get the opportunity to go by the Projection Design booth to check out the Helios?

Avs group auditioned the Helios at CEDIA this year, Jeff and Peter were with me and we agreed that the picture Helios throws is not good at all.
I did not visit them.
Quite frankly I was impressed with Sim Exhibiting at CES, just shows that They will be around and are committed considering the economy.

That is correct but what I was suggesting is the possibility that the Helios has been improved since Cedia

Dont promise but I can try swing by and see if theyhue the Helios this morning!
will report....

leaning towards not spending a huge sum when something better will come out just a few months later.

This statement will be true regardless of the month or year ... something better will always be rumored to be around the corner.

lumens x gain/screen area in sq ft = ft L


Art

Thanks, Art.

For this PJ to work for me on my 14' scope Microperf, I need about 1600 lumens on a broken in bulb...

How do the UHP bulbs far over time? Xenon's can drop 50% in a couple hundred hours...

I know UHP bulbs are cheaper, and if they're a few hundred dollars, I'd be happy to replace the bulb each year and save on an overall PJ cost...

The quietness is another need I have and it looks as if this one is quiet..

Thanks!!

Looking for some lumens #s..

Jeff,
The projector has 5 fans inside.
It has same noise when running at high as a Qualia. . . .
very quiet.
Ash

Thanks, Art.

For this PJ to work for me on my 14' scope Microperf, I need about 1600 lumens on a broken in bulb...

How do the UHP bulbs far over time? Xenon's can drop 50% in a couple hundred hours...

I know UHP bulbs are cheaper, and if they're a few hundred dollars, I'd be happy to replace the bulb each year and save on an overall PJ cost...

The quietness is another need I have and it looks as if this one is quiet..

Thanks!!

Looking for some lumens #s..

Jeff,
I've not owned a Xenon based unit but my experience so far is that my PJ's lamp drops just under 20% at 300 hours.

Also as you mentioned ,lamps are quite inexpensive relatively speaking.

Art

Jeff,
I saw the lumis..... It is awesome.
It is not enough for my 12 foot 2:35 Perf screen specially because of the 25 foot throw.
The new HT 5000 E with Darkchip 4 an 10 bit processing was better looking than the lumis. And my humble opinion way better than the HT 5000.
The picture had no digital look and looked like a sharp SXRD with deep blacks.
It retails for 70K and is better looking than Digital Projection Titan which I really liked.
Ash

70k ?!

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/09/sim2-aims-high-with-58-000-grand-cinema-ht5000e-dlp-projector/

HI

Where does the Lumis stand in respect to the newly unveiled HT5000E?

HI

Where does the Lumis stand in respect to the newly unveiled HT5000E?

So far it appears to outperform it.

Art

70k ?!

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/09/sim2-aims-high-with-58-000-grand-cinema-ht5000e-dlp-projector/

Re-read your link, and see that leaves only 5K or under 8% for tax.

I don't believe that the 58,000 includes the lens.

Art

I don't believe that the 58,000 includes the lens.

Art


That's correct. The actual msrp is $57,995 for the HT5000E body, and $7,995 for the lens (regardlesss of TR). ($65,990)

Jim