I am posting the following experience in this forum in order to hear reponses from A/V professionals. All comments are appreciated.

I had never had a display professionally calibrated previously, so I was eagerly looking forward to the calibration I had scheduled for my new Samsung HL67A750. In order to ensure a proper, professional calibration, I was careful to obtain the ISF-certified calibrator’s telephone number from the ISF website. He arrived with several expensive-looking cases of test equipment. I explained the sequence of keys required on the remote control to access the service menu. Once inside the service menu, the calibrator was completely stumped about what to do next. For some reason, the menu item “grayscale” was not an available menu option while in HDMI mode. After several frantic telephone calls to both Samsung and his trainer, a guy named “Jamie” who works at Sencore (the company which sold the test equipment), he still could not figure out what to do next; and he informs me that the grayscale cannot be adjusted on this model while in HDMI mode. Though I knew that this didn’t make any sense, I breathed a sigh of relief, realizing that someone tinkering around inside the service menu might cause some real damage. I later learned that the grayscale is adjusted from the submenu, WB (white balance). I also knew that “gamma” was supposed be between 2.2 and 2.5, though I didn’t understand why the default setting was –3. (This is not the actual gamma, but rather a user selectable parameter, which is chosen to achieve a gamma of between 2.2 and 2.5.)

Furthermore, this ISF-certified calibrator had no idea what either CCA or Blue mode were for. CCA is Samsung’s “color coordinate adjustment” system, which automatically corrects primary and secondary colors to system specifications, and therefore must first temporarily be disabled before performing calibration of color and tint. I explained that using blue mode was much more accurate than using filters, and explained that bars are compared while in this mode. When we then turned on the blue mode and everything turned blue, he looked at me and asks, “Where are the bars”? So, I say that the blue mode only turns off the other colors, and that he still has to send the SMPTE test pattern to the display with his signal generator. He continued for a while really messing up all of my user settings. For example, he turned the contrast from 90 all the way down to 20. I then explained to him, as politely as I could, that I had called him primarily for the grayscale calibration, since I didn’t have a colorimeter; and that since all of the other adjustments I could do myself with my AVIA II disk, he was now free to leave. At this time, he demanded that I pay him $70 for the service call. He wasn’t going to charge me the full amount, he said, since he didn’t finish the calibration. I preferred to just give him the 70 bucks to get rid of him, than have an argument.

There were only two ISF calibrators in this area listed on the ISF website. So next, I called the second one. He comes over, and starts hooking up his equipment to the component inputs. I tell him that I don't use component, just HDMI, (one for BD/DVD and one for Dish). He says that if he does the calibration using components, the TV will be calibrated on all inputs; but I don't believe him. So, he calls the same trainer, Jamie, at Sencore who confirms that all he has to do is calibrate on component and all other inputs will be calibrated. I don't believe this, so I decide to pass. My understanding is that all inputs must be calibrated separately; someone please correct me if I am wrong about this.

Two final questions:
1. Should the A/V calibration industry have a more rigorous certification standard?
2. Who trains the trainers?

Vrex, sorry to here about your experience with the ISF Techs. As mentioned before, not all ISF Techs are created equally. Each input needs to be calibrated separately. Now that said, one input can be calibrated and spread to the other inputs via WB spread, but that is only a starting point for the other inputs. The other inputs still need to be fed the appropriate scan rate signal and adjusted. These Sammys calibrate very well with their CCA system. And yes there is grayscale controls in the SM (WB) as you have mentioned above. The Sencore website makes not mention of Calibrating CCA for these sets. They simply instruct the calibrator to do grayscale adjustments via the WB menu. Do yourself a favor and get one of the highly regarded traveling ISF techs.

Greetings

Sorry to hear about your experience.

A University cannot guarantee the competency of a Doctor that graduates from there. There will be good doctors and bad ones and mediocre ones and they all come from the same university.

Same for auto mechanics and TV repairmen and engineers and lawyers and ...

All that is needed for ISF listing and certification is that the people have the equipment and that they pass the test. Passing the test means that they understood the material that was presented in the two day class. It does not mean that they know how to calibrate though.

The class teaches calibration theory ... there is very little/limited hands on training for the students. Some might be lucky to even touch a remote control. The way the program is presented is such that the students learn the art and science of calibration one TV at a time on their own. The ISF class does not teach people to calibrate ... it gives them a good foundation in which they can teach themselves the rest of the stuff.

Unfortunately, many misunderstand what the ISF certification is actually about.

You got two of the lesser people that passed the test. You should ask for more references or try one of the traveling calibrators with a much better reputation. Or you can give up and proclaim that all Doctors are bad.

Regards

I can't believe he had the nerve to charge you $70 for the service call. What was the full price?

In a strange way, you should count your blessings that you only wasted $70.

There are REAL reasons that an LED or Laser based unit SHOULD NOT be calibrated with anything less than a true SpectroRadiometer, of which Sencore offers none.

Bottom line is that you will just be wasting your time as well if you try to do it yourself with a GretagMacbeth i1 series, Spyder or anything of the sort as these units are not designed for this type of lighting.

There are calibrators with true SpectroRadiometers that have worked on the LED sets if you scan the Samsung threads (though I would be shocked if there are more than a dozen or so ISF techs in America with a true SpectroRadiometer). The Samsung thread would be a very good place to start.

I would have rather paid $70 for something that did not work instead of $300-$500.

But I agree, I am somewhat shocked he did charge you anything.

In the long run you'll probably be better off getting the calman/i1pro bundle and doing it yourself. I'm sure you will be a lot happier after you get over the intial $$$.

In my opinion, any calibration or service tech who does not do his homework and understand the capabilities and procedures of the display before doing the call is not behaving in a professional manner. There are good resources available, including online forums, listserves, and groups where one can find service manuals, training information, other experienced professionals to share information, and calibration procedures. A true professional has access to these and uses them BEFORE going to calibrate the set. Most of the better resources require subscriptions, training, and perhaps prior certification to access and use, but that is what pros do.

There is simply no excuse for being unprepared. Unfortunately, many have the idea that tagging ISF to a resume or business card makes someone a professional or makes them qualified. As noted above, this is no more true than in any other profession.

If you would state your location, Vrex, someone may be able to recommend a pro who covers your area or one who will be travelling there may contact you. Also, I think you should list the names of the individuals that you attempted to use so that others will know the level of service they provide.

Vrex, where are you located? Maybe a good calibrator that knows what he's doing would be willing to give you a price break and get it done right.

In the long run you'll probably be better off getting the calman/i1pro bundle and doing it yourself. I'm sure you will be a lot happier after you get over the intial $$$.

i1 Pro is SpectroPhotometer, not a SpectroRadioMeter and thus will not be able to perform as needed with LED and Laser as source. Again, start with techs who have a proper SpectroRadioMeter and have worked on Samsung units in the threads for the specific model. There are some with very good references and the proper equipment.

i1 Pro is SpectroPhotometer, not a SpectroRadioMeter and thus will not be able to perform as needed with LED and Laser as source. Again, start with techs who have a proper SpectroRadioMeter and have worked on Samsung units in the threads for the specific model. There are some with very good references and the proper equipment.

Hi Beach,

i did study physics at university many years ago :) But maybe i'm missing something. Radiometry measures all electromagnetic radiation vs. Photometry measuring visible light. If my memory serves me correctly Photometry is a subset of Radiometry that additionaly weights the measurements according to human sensitivity. So is not a Spectrophotometer a specialised Spectroradiometer?? Why would the eye one pro not work on an led based device??

So is not a Spectrophotometer a specialised Spectroradiometer??
It is. The wavelength band to which the Spectro is tuned is what really defines a radiometer from a photometer.

Why would the eye one pro not work on an led based device??Depends upon the spectral width of the LEDs. The i1 Pro only "sees" spectrum in 10nm chunks. The resolution of a spectro is typically defined by the slit size, the grating and the detector chip. A good resource for a relatively simple lab design is here:
http://www.oceanoptics.com/products/benchoptions_usb4.asp

They describe what each part does, what some options are, and how they contribute to the overall performance of the completed product.

Bill

Hi Beach,

i did study physics at university many years ago :) But maybe i'm missing something. Radiometry measures all electromagnetic radiation vs. Photometry measuring visible light. If my memory serves me correctly Photometry is a subset of Radiometry that additionaly weights the measurements according to human sensitivity. So is not a Spectrophotometer a specialised Spectroradiometer?? Why would the eye one pro not work on an led based device??

What Bear says above.....but let me remind you of your own statement:

On my Pioneer 9G 5090H I just couldn't get a 'good' Picture quality. Both the Eye-One Display2 AND the Spyder 3 were giving me DE's <=2 from 20IRE on up. The closer I got my greyscale and other parameters to measure to perfection the more displeasing the PQ. Both devices were giving me excellent results on my computer monitors as well as the other 2 tv's in my house.

Now being frustrated I simply tried D-Nice's reference settings and all of a sudden my PQ issues were gone. The Plasma measures terribly now, but the Picture is great.

I've lost all trust in Colorimeters. They were both so far off on the plasma as to warrant a warning to all beginners not to go the cheaper path. Minimum requirement is a Eye-One Pro.

Get the more expensive good and reliable Spectroradiometer, A colorimeter just isn't reliable enough.

Plasma (as you found out) has IR that screws with the reading on colormeters. As has been shown, SXRDs also have a high error with anything other than SpectroRadioMeters. LED and Lasers will produce the same errors with the current "cheap" technology.

There are additional factors, as Bear5k stated above, but you really need to be able to measure in 5nm chunks and a meter that only goes down to 1.0fL really does not get it any longer.

That means that the bandwith of LED and laser based systems needs a meter with at least 5nm resolution. Makes sense.

Thanx for the info.

My purpose in starting this thread was to call attention to the (apparently) more general problem in the A/V calibration industry of poor training and lack of professional standards. I realize that a few bad apples do not spoil the whole bunch, and that there are many knowledgeable, well-trained professionals. However, unfortunately experiences like mine reflect badly upon the profession as a whole, tarnishing everyone's reputation.
I understand that not every calibrator can always be familiar with the many different service menus for every model display. Expertise will always vary; however, if they are going to work in this field for hire, they should have access to reliable information to get the job done. In both cases, the calibrators knew the model of my display well in advance, and had real-time access to their trainer, Jamie from Sencore. Unfortunately the information they received was WRONG. This is worse than no information. Either this ISF instructor actually believes that a calibration via component, calibrates all inputs; or he intentionally misled his student while on a service call -- either way he has no business being an instructor. In both cases, I was present and heard the conversation, as this ISF instructor, Jamie, gave wrong information. I don't blame the student (who honestly thought he was doing things correctly) for wasting a lot of my time including two days off from work, and a little money. But I do blame the instructor. I would be even more upset, if like many of you, I worked in this field. I would very much like to hear Jamie's response. Do any of you know him? Has anyone here been trained by him? All I can surmise is that Sencore is much more interested in selling their equipment, than in how it is used. This also leads one to think that they may not care much about the quality of the equipment they make.

Hi Vrex, just an FYI that Jamie isn't actually an instructor at Sencore. He is a product support specialist. Jamie as far as I know is not an 'in-field' person and I would no way ever expect him to know the nuances of each set. He is simply a technical contact point that most people tend to contact for questions. If you have problems with the Sencore hardware or software, then call Jamie. Other than that, I wouldn't. That being said, the ISF techs that tend to call Jamie for every service call are ISF techs who tend to not make use of available resources elsewhere. Sencore provides a library accessible to their customers for different sets, but this library is VERY limited and most the time does not have complete information. I personally have accessed their library once. After about a minute of browsing I left.
Why, because the information is incomplete. Anyway, I do not blame Jamie. I would blame the technician for not doing due diligence on the pertinent model. The fact the ISF tech didn't even know what CCA was tells me he did Zero research. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Greetings

Things like CCA are only briefly touched upon in class and this area is described as being advanced calibration.

Would a typical ISF grad be expected to know this and perform this service? Doubtful. The focus is on user controls and grayscale and that is about it.

It is the small number of enthusiast calibrators that travel around that also offer this extended service. CCA is not supposed to be part of the normal repertoire of the typical ISF graduate. (Think expecting your family doctor to be a specialist as well in all areas.) Unfortunately, what an end user can expect or should expect is one giant nebulous area when it comes to services performed. :(

But then again, some people expect calibrators to be TV repairmen too.

Regards