^

Most would say Sanyo Z2000 I believe. But a lot could change over the next few weeks in this price range. By Thanksgiving many are hoping to see the Epson 1080UB drop below $2K.

Sanyo z2000, awesome performer, performs just as well as many higher priced 1080p after this bad boys been tweaked.:)

Another vote for the Sanyo PLV-Z2000. Around $1,500 after rebates.

Where?

What if you hate LCD?

Sanyo Z2000:D

What if you hate LCD?

If LCD isn't your cup of tea, then you gotta either go 720p on DLP or increase your price range to $2500 to get the Benq W5000.

Whats the reason that you don't like LCD?

I don't know about Anthony1, but I am hesitant to buy another LCD because of the lack of a sealed light path. While dust blobs can usually be cleaned, I have grown tired of dealing with them on my old LCD. And really don't feel like worrying about them on my next projector.

If LCD isn't your cup of tea, then you gotta either go 720p on DLP or increase your price range to $2500 to get the Benq W5000.

Whats the reason that you don't like LCD?

$2100 from what I've seen...

$2100 from what I've seen...

Have they fixed the "noise" issue on the BenQ W5000?

Have they fixed the "noise" issue on the BenQ W5000?

It's highly debated whether or not there is truly a "noise" issue or if it's a byproduct of an extremely sharp and relentlessly high-contrast DLP projector. Many AVS users claim that if there is noise in the source, that the BenQ W5000 will show every bit of it, however if the transfer is clean, the W5000 provides a clean, noise-free image.

Regarding fixes: according to the thread listed below, the latest units are shipping with the latest firmware which fixes the 24p "switching" issue that users experienced when switching between different sources.

I highly recommend taking a look at this thread for more info -- it has really helped me narrow the field on what PJ I would like to purchase -- and FWIW, it seems like a great bunch of owners in there that are really dedicated to squeaking all they can out of the W5000:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=957897&page=67

Have they fixed the "noise" issue on the BenQ W5000?

Having spent some time with my W5000, the "noise" issue is not a deal breaker for me. Some films show more "noise" than others, and some have none. I'm more in the camp of its coming from the source.

This projector is very sharp, and will "show" whatever it is fed. Sometimes we chase so many issues with our projectors, that it consumes us and we never enjoy them.

analogBalrog is correct that the 1080/24 to 1080/60 switching has been corrected here in the U.S. with firmware 1.21.

If you are a DLP fan this PJ is tough to beat on performance and price.

And if you look hard you can get close to that $2000 or less price.;)

And some of those 1080P LCD projectors are very nice also..........

Having spent some time with my W5000, the "noise" issue is not a deal breaker for me. Some films show more "noise" than others, and some have none. I'm more in the camp of its coming from the source.

This projector is very sharp, and will "show" whatever it is fed. Sometimes we chase so many issues with our projectors, that it consumes us and we never enjoy them.

analogBalrog is correct that the 1080/24 to 1080/60 switching has been corrected here in the U.S. with firmware 1.21.

If you are a DLP fan this PJ is tough to beat on performance and price.

And if you look hard you can get close to that $2000 or less price.;)

And some of those 1080P LCD projectors are very nice also..........

Art from Projectorreeviews.com suggested the W5000 over the newer Infocus X10. Is there a way to check which update the projector has before purchasing it?

Bang for the buck, the Z2000 with the $300 + $300 rebate until the end of September would be at the top of my list if I was on a (more restrictive) budget.

Having spent some time with the Epson and Panasonic (which could be there [$2000] shortly), I'd probably choose the AE2000 if I could find it for $2000.

Where?

Visual Apex.

I don't know about Anthony1, but I am hesitant to buy another LCD because of the lack of a sealed light path. While dust blobs can usually be cleaned, I have grown tired of dealing with them on my old LCD. And really don't feel like worrying about them on my next projector.In all fairness to William, dust is definitely an issue with LCD..and..SXRD's for that matter. They require vigilant cleaning in order to perform at their optima'

Where?You should audition the new Sony VPL-HW10 SXRD projector. Probably 3K street price but worth a look before you dismiss it.

TRT, I thought the Sonys and JVCs had a sealed light path?

Art from Projectorreeviews.com suggested the W5000 over the newer Infocus X10. Is there a way to check which update the projector has before purchasing it?

Actually this is what he said:

"Tough call here. if BenQ ever straightens out the image noise issue, I would give it the advantage - as it stands, it's a pick and choose, the lessor of two evils (black levels vs. image noise). Both are very good choices, though. Don't let me scare you off."

TRT, I thought the Sonys and JVCs had a sealed light path?Rear projections don't. It is the same technology, though.

i have a w9000 and it is incredible!!! one of the best pictures for a DLP projector i have seen to date...great black levels, awesome contrast etc. definitely consider the BENQ line

If you look really hard you can find the epson 1080 UB for around $2100 after the $300 rebate plus you still get a free lamp... best deal in MHO...

i have a w9000 and it is incredible!!!It'd be pretty hard to find that available for $2500...let alone $2000 or less.

It'd be pretty hard to find that available for $2500...let alone $2000 or less.

actually, i got it on ebay brand new in the box w/ warranty from a dealer for....wait for it.....wait...

$1715.00 USD (cost me 1800.00 Canadian taxes and shipping included) WOOT WOOT!!! so yes, it can definitely be done! he sold 3 more..but not sure if there are any left or not now.

If you look really hard you can find the epson 1080 UB for around $2100 after the $300 rebate plus you still get a free lamp... best deal in MHO...

Seems to be 200$ or more pricier than that everywhere. Where are you lookin?

Seems to be 200$ or more pricier than that everywhere. Where are you lookin?

I think he was thinking projectorpoint.com...but that $2350 price (before rebate) is for the non-UB model.

In all fairness to William, dust is definitely an issue with LCD..and..SXRD's for that matter. They require vigilant cleaning in order to perform at their optima'

This is true...most DLPs however had a very limited placement. I know in my room with my pre-wiring I can't do a DLP without cutting new holes to get a 15' for less throw for a 100-110" picture.

I think he was thinking projectorpoint.com...but that $2350 price (before rebate) is for the non-UB model.

Nope it is the 1080 UB... Great deal... Dont think we are supposed to talk price etc... But do a google merch search...

Looks like it is backordered now... 2-5 days... But at that price I would get on the list!

Actually this is what he said:

I asked him directly and he said I'd probably be more happy with the W5000. I like the sharpness and shadow detail of the X10, but the coloe just doesn't "WOW" me. I like the 3D looking colors popping off the screen, which the X10 doesn't seem to have.

I don't know about Anthony1, but I am hesitant to buy another LCD because of the lack of a sealed light path. While dust blobs can usually be cleaned, I have grown tired of dealing with them on my old LCD. And really don't feel like worrying about them on my next projector.
Dust blobs on the Z2000 can be cleaned easily without opening up the PJ (through special cleaning holes, and using a supplied blower). The system works well, and it was a good move by Sanyo to include it.

If you're still interested in the Sanyo I found this doing a google search

http://www.hdcameraworld.com/ShoppingCart.asp?

I've never bought anything from there so someone else might want to chime in about customer satisfaction.

If you're still interested in the Sanyo I found this doing a google search

http://www.hdcameraworld.com/ShoppingCart.asp?

I've never bought anything from there so someone else might want to chime in about customer satisfaction.

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/hd-camera-world-c88789.html

It's highly debated whether or not there is truly a "noise" issue or if it's a byproduct of an extremely sharp and relentlessly high-contrast DLP projector. Many AVS users claim that if there is noise in the source, that the BenQ W5000 will show every bit of it, however if the transfer is clean, the W5000 provides a clean, noise-free image.

Even in my 720p LCD monitor, every single movie that has live actors shows noise. "I Am Legend" has lots of it, as do "Enchanted" and "Transformers". Sadly, projectorreviews.com gives too much weight to performance with live action flicks. They should do more testing with 100% clean-looking CGI movies, such as Ratatouille and Bee Movie, to fully isolate any image problems the projector might have.

For those who don't mind spending a little more ($2400-2500), you're sure to see a few JVC RS1's for sale here at AVS within the next month or so when the RS20 comes out. Most were probably purchased from AVS (I'd imagine). I'm already seeing "want my RS1" posts on the RS20 thread.

Even in my 720p LCD monitor, every single movie that has live actors shows noise. "I Am Legend" has lots of it, as do "Enchanted" and "Transformers". Sadly, projectorreviews.com gives too much weight to performance with live action flicks. They should do more testing with 100% clean-looking CGI movies, such as Ratatouille and Bee Movie, to fully isolate any image problems the projector might have.

It's not noise...It's called grain and it usually gives you detail and film like images.....Far better to have the grain than remove it.

It's not noise...It's called grain and it usually gives you detail and film like images.....Far better to have the grain than remove it.

You're right, this is usually called grain. Sorry, I was assuming that the movies I mentioned were shot with digital cinema cameras (which have image noise instead of film grain), but since there are still some movies being shot in film, this phenomenon is still called "grain".

It's not noise...It's called grain and it usually gives you detail and film like images.....Far better to have the grain than remove it.

Grain IS noise by definition. It may be artistic intent in some cases, but it's still noise. Do you see "grain" with your eyes?

Grain IS noise by definition. It may be artistic intent in some cases, but it's still noise. Do you see "grain" with your eyes?

Grain is NOT noise......How many times must people be educated on this fact....Remove the grain and you remove the detail from the film.....Grain has always been a natural part of film...Indeed it is film....Some 35mm film produces less grain structure especially modern day films but it is an inherent part of film.

If you don't like grain then tough luck because from the advent of film over a 100 years ago grain has been a part of the equation....Noise reduction tools will destroy a film and the gorgeous detail that comes with it.

Nothing to do with artistic intent either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35_mm_film

From the above article....Talking about film camera stock used for making movies...

In the 1980s Eastman Kodak invented the T-Grain, a synthetically manufactured silver halide grain that had a larger, flat surface area and allowed for greater light sensitivity in a smaller, thinner grain. Thus Kodak was able to break the problem of higher speed (greater light sensitivity — see Film Speed) which required larger grain and therefore more "Grainy" images. With T-Grain technology, Kodak refined the grain structure of all their "EXR" line of motion picture film stocks (which was eventually incorporated into their "MAX" still stocks). Fuji films followed suit with their own grain innovation, the tabular grain in their SUFG (Super Unified Fine Grain) SuperF negative stocks, which are made up of thin hexagonal tabular grains.

I wish people would do some research and understand what grain really is rather than dismissing it as bad.

I am surprised at how often people cite wikipidea as their main source of fact. The website is based almost entirely off of regular users who submit information. Granted, there are those out there who know what they are talking about and spend their time to make sure the info is accurate, but much like these forums, not all the information is. But I don't see people citing forums info as fact.

Basically what I'm saying is, if you are really trying to prove a point, get some real hard data. There is a great article in the most recent edition (October issue) of Home Theater Magazine that explains film grain. And like Mulder said, Grain is a part of the film, it's not noise. People call it noise, but usually the "noise" people talk about is the degration of the signal as it passes through the sources, (DVD->cable->projector->screen). Grain is a part of the film, however, it can be added into digital shot movies (think 300). On the other hand it can be removed to produce a razor sharp rendition, it's all up to the film producer and the skill of the editing dept.

If you look really hard you can find the epson 1080 UB for around $2100 after the $300 rebate plus you still get a free lamp... best deal in MHO...

sounds good and very tempting. I have a mits 720P hc3000 and the lamp is at 3200 hours. new lamp is 300$ or more... Plus 1080.. plus lens shift to shelf mount...

:)

I am surprised at how often people cite wikipidea as their main source of fact. The website is based almost entirely off of regular users who submit information. Granted, there are those out there who know what they are talking about and spend their time to make sure the info is accurate, but much like these forums, not all the information is. But I don't see people citing forums info as fact.

Basically what I'm saying is, if you are really trying to prove a point, get some real hard data. There is a great article in the most recent edition (October issue) of Home Theater Magazine that explains film grain. And like Mulder said, Grain is a part of the film, it's not noise. People call it noise, but usually the "noise" people talk about is the degration of the signal as it passes through the sources, (DVD->cable->projector->screen). Grain is a part of the film, however, it can be added into digital shot movies (think 300). On the other hand it can be removed to produce a razor sharp rendition, it's all up to the film producer and the skill of the editing dept.

Yeah, the only thing I have seen that has been really accurate on Wikipedia is the Scientology stuff. The Xenu story is very amusing and true.

Yeah, the only thing I have seen that has been really accurate on Wikipedia is the Scientology stuff. The Xenu story is very amusing and true.

Lots of stuff on Wiki is accurate...I just finished looking up cat information which i found interesting and true....Some stuff will always be false but the beauty of the internet is you can research at dozens of places and then use your brain to decipher the bull from the truth....Sometimes it's hard to do but certainly not with a subject such as film grain which all experts agree is part of film and should be retained otherwise you just erase background detail into a mush if you DNR too much and HD does backghround details and those long camera shots so well thus retaining grain is essential.

The film link i provided regarding grain is accurate.

Great thread! I was looking for something just like this. I was looking at the refurb projectors from BenQ and was going to pick up the W500 (stupid 720p) for about $650, but I guess I'll get the Sanyo PLV-Z2000 if it's still around $1300 when I get back to the US in December. Thanks for the informative thread.

So your eyes see grain/noise? I'm well aware of what grain is, no need for education. Seems you need a little bit of education on what constitutes noise. Noise is an unwanted by-product of any process (something unwanted byproducts are wanted). Noise in his case response of film to photons...OF course it's part of the film process. It doesn't mean it's not noise.

I never said I didn't like grain or not. Nor did I comment about noise reduction. Quite some leap of assumptions you took there.



Grain is NOT noise......How many times must people be educated on this fact....Remove the grain and you remove the detail from the film.....Grain has always been a natural part of film...Indeed it is film....Some 35mm film produces less grain structure especially modern day films but it is an inherent part of film.

If you don't like grain then tough luck because from the advent of film over a 100 years ago grain has been a part of the equation....Noise reduction tools will destroy a film and the gorgeous detail that comes with it.

Nothing to do with artistic intent either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35_mm_film

From the above article....Talking about film camera stock used for making movies...

In the 1980s Eastman Kodak invented the T-Grain, a synthetically manufactured silver halide grain that had a larger, flat surface area and allowed for greater light sensitivity in a smaller, thinner grain. Thus Kodak was able to break the problem of higher speed (greater light sensitivity — see Film Speed) which required larger grain and therefore more "Grainy" images. With T-Grain technology, Kodak refined the grain structure of all their "EXR" line of motion picture film stocks (which was eventually incorporated into their "MAX" still stocks). Fuji films followed suit with their own grain innovation, the tabular grain in their SUFG (Super Unified Fine Grain) SuperF negative stocks, which are made up of thin hexagonal tabular grains.

I wish people would do some research and understand what grain really is rather than dismissing it as bad.

Note that the Sanyo PLV-1080HD will be sold at Best Buy with a special end-cap display ( October, $1995 MSRP, 1,200 lumens, 10,000:1 ).

Quote: " The display will highlight complete home theater projector packages including home theater audio components and a projection screen at retail prices of around $4,000. "

www.twice.com/

Note that the Sanyo PLV-1080HD will be sold at Best Buy with a special end-cap display ( October, $1995 MSRP, 1,200 lumens, 10,000:1 ).

Quote: " The display will highlight complete home theater projector packages including home theater audio components and a projection screen at retail prices of around $4,000. "

www.twice.com/ (http://www.twice.com/)You might want to use a link to the article, rather than a front page...took a little while to find:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6598163.html

So, with the Z60, Z700 and Z3000, is PLV-1080HD a rebranded Z2000 or Z700, or what? The Z700 has the exact same retail price as the PLV-1080HD mentioned in the article, and if it is the same projector, I don't see the point in creating two SKUs for it. (Nor do I see the point in the Epson 6100/7100 and 6500/7500, or JVC models, but those seem help sell projectors in America...)

Also the Mits HC5500 can be had for under $2k with rebate.

I went with this projector because it has a good scalar for doing CIH on a scope screen.