This isn't your normal letterboxing question (as Sony keeps seeming to think it is!).

Sony DVP-NS75H up-converting DVD player
Samsung 46N650A LCD 16x9 TV

I have found two movies in my collection that display on my TV in widescreen aspect ratio, but do so with both letterbox AND pillarbox. In other words, the image is a postage stamp in the middle of the screen. I can achieve this same result of I set my DVD player to output to a 4x3 TV. But of course I have it set to 16x9, and all the other DVDs in my collection use the full width of my display.

Yes, I can stretch the image to fill the width. NO, I don't want to do that. All anamorphic discs display perfectly. Most of the non-anamorphic ones do as well. These two discs (Top Gun and To Kill a Mockingbird) are both very old, original releases of the movies on DVD. One is a two-layer disk with a menu choice for 4x3 or letter box. The other has the two choices on either side of a single disk.

Is there any hope of using the full width of the screen for these two movies? Sony swears that the discs are encoded with the side bars. Not true, of course, or those bars would also show on a 4x3 TV, but they don't. I will try to play it on a neighbor's DVD player later on.

The simple answer is to buy new DVDs, I'm sure. But I haven't gone through my entire collection yet, and I'm worried about how many more I'll find. Any clue what might be going on??

Thanks!

The original release of both these titles was non-anamorphic widescreen. As a result you will get pillarboxing with these titles. The newer collector edition releases are anamorphic widescreen. So you can either zoom, strectch, or replace them with the newer release. Here is the IMDB reference FYI. You can use ImDB to check and see how many non-anamorphic widescreen titles you may have in your collection.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092099/dvd
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056592/dvd

Thanks for the response! BUT... I should have added this information:

I own about 25 non-anamorphic "widescreen" DVDs. I have now tested most of them, and so far all but two of them display PERFECTLY on my 16x9 TV. In other words, no pillarboxing for most of my non-anamorphic widescreen discs. Just two of them have this problem.

So, knowing this info ... how does the logic go where I have two that pillarbox, and about twenty that display correctly? I agree that all anamorphic discs work pefectly, and the only problem I have is with these two non-anamorphic discs. But why do so many work correctly then if this shouldn't be expected?

I wish I had a clue. Non-anamorphic widescreen should be pillarboxed. That is, the two problem DVD's you mentioned are displaying correctly. It is the other twenty that are the problem. Are you sure they are also non-anamorphic titles?

Well, then I guess all things considered, I have the better problem. ;)

Yes, I'm absolutely positive that the other discs that work are, in fact, non-anamorphic. They're all from that same era of DVD production where anamorphic was REALLY rare. When I first started buying DVDs, there were about 200 titles available, and none of them (as far as I'm aware) were anamorphic... and DVD players cost $2500...

I'm just trying to avoid buying all my movies in yet ANOTHER format - after VHS, laserdisk, SD DVD...

Thanks for your help. Still makes me wonder what's going on!

Alas, if you don't have the data encoded, even if you managed to fill the screen it will end up pixelated. I have a large number of older disks with such problems, e.g. Blade Runner, but were re-released after 2001 and are unbelievably improved.



This isn't your normal letterboxing question (as Sony keeps seeming to think it is!).

Sony DVP-NS75H up-converting DVD player
Samsung 46N650A LCD 16x9 TV

I have found two movies in my collection that display on my TV in widescreen aspect ratio, but do so with both letterbox AND pillarbox. In other words, the image is a postage stamp in the middle of the screen. I can achieve this same result of I set my DVD player to output to a 4x3 TV. But of course I have it set to 16x9, and all the other DVDs in my collection use the full width of my display.

Yes, I can stretch the image to fill the width. NO, I don't want to do that. All anamorphic discs display perfectly. Most of the non-anamorphic ones do as well. These two discs (Top Gun and To Kill a Mockingbird) are both very old, original releases of the movies on DVD. One is a two-layer disk with a menu choice for 4x3 or letter box. The other has the two choices on either side of a single disk.

Is there any hope of using the full width of the screen for these two movies? Sony swears that the discs are encoded with the side bars. Not true, of course, or those bars would also show on a 4x3 TV, but they don't. I will try to play it on a neighbor's DVD player later on.

The simple answer is to buy new DVDs, I'm sure. But I haven't gone through my entire collection yet, and I'm worried about how many more I'll find. Any clue what might be going on??

Thanks!

Alas, if you don't have the data encoded, even if you managed to fill the screen it will end up pixelated.
Ah, but again... the older, non-anamorphic discs that I do have are not "horrible" by any means. They fill the screen, but are not pixelated. The quality most definitely has gotten better on the newer discs, but the old ones that work, at least work fine.

Time for a Blue Ray and new discs...

Actually, anamorphic discs were not that rare in the early days of DVD. How sure are you that you've got non-anamorphic DVDs that are displaying properly?

If you really do have some non-anamorphic discs that display properly and others that don't, it's possible that this is a flagging issue. DVDs have flags that can be set to tell a player certain details about the content. I don't know if "widescreen" is a flag that can be set on a non-anamorphic disc, but it's feasible. And, if so, you might have a couple of discs that are improperly flagged.

The only suggestion I can make is to output at 480, which should allow you to zoom in on the TV.

Actually, anamorphic discs were not that rare in the early days of DVD. How sure are you that you've got non-anamorphic DVDs that are displaying properly?
If I recall correctly, the ones that WERE anamorphic were very proud of the fact, and would typically point that out on the back cover. The others were "letterbox" or "widescreen." I do have a few anamorphic from those days, but only a small percentage. And I specifically chose them if I could. I'm as sure as I can be about the anamorphicosity of the discs. But really... how can anybody tell for sure (unless this pillarboxing is THE indicator)?

The only suggestion I can make is to output at 480, which should allow you to zoom in on the TV.
I think I'd rather watch it in reasonable resolution at a smaller size at that point. Really, this is pretty much just academic now. I'm interested in what's going on. But it won't be changing my life. ;)

But really... how can anybody tell for sure (unless this pillarboxing is THE indicator)?

There is software that will show the title characteristics. The only aspect ratios allowed for SD-DVD are 4:3 and 16:9. Non-anamorphic widescreen titles are 4:3.

The recent Oppo players also show this information.

-Bill

Ah, but again... the older, non-anamorphic discs that I do have are not "horrible" by any means. They fill the screen, but are not pixelated. The quality most definitely has gotten better on the newer discs, but the old ones that work, at least work fine.

Time for a Blue Ray and new discs...

I have a first release of "The Wild Bunch" which is both letter and pillar boxed, ergo 'windowboxed' but it was sold as letterboxed. Although I can improve the image somewhat with the player or TV's settings, mostly its magnifying the image.

The test I use for true anamorphic disks is to fix the DVD output to 16:9, if its not pillar, or window boxed and thus fills the lateral margins, its very likely anamorphic.

The pixelation can be subtle, to see it pull up the sharpness of your TV to defeat the anti-aliasing of the DVD and the TV. If you can't see squares, you do have good resolution.

True anamorphic disks only began appearing around 1995/6, and it didn't really become standard issue until after 2000. Disk labeling was very variable. If a disk is labeled widescreen, but doesn't say anamorphic, its very possible the image was just shrunk to fit the aspect ratio projected onto standard TV's 4:3.

There is a good article on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamorphic_widescreen

I loathe having to repurchase many DVDs in my collection, but some of the remastering done since 2000 on disks I already own are so good, it rivals Blu Ray very closely on good upconverting DVDs. Its as if the studios finally figured out the process, cleaning up not only bad film copies, correcting color, enhancing them in other ways, and engineer the sound to maximize 5.1 surround as well as simple 2 channel, as best possible for home use. One disk that has had at least 3 versions is Blade Runner. The "Final Cut" is the best I've ever seen on just DVD.

If I recall correctly, the ones that WERE anamorphic were very proud of the fact, and would typically point that out on the back cover. The others were "letterbox" or "widescreen." I do have a few anamorphic from those days, but only a small percentage. And I specifically chose them if I could. I'm as sure as I can be about the anamorphicosity of the discs. But really... how can anybody tell for sure (unless this pillarboxing is THE indicator)?

In the early days of DVD, it was very hit or miss with regards to packaging. You really couldn’t trust what the packaging said. I’m not saying that you’re wrong about the discs you’ve got, just that there were quite a few anamorphic discs in the early years and they were often lax in accurately labeling them. If you listed some of the non-anamorphic discs you think are being displayed properly, some of us may be able to tell you if they really are non-anamorphic.

How can you tell? With my Toshiba, if I run 480 into it, I have to manually choose the aspect ratio, so it’s pretty easy to tell. If I choose FULL and a disc is non-anamorphic, the black bars will be bigger than they should be and everything will be stretched.

Another way is to play them on your computer. Using DVD Player on my Mac, anamorphic discs will show in a 16:9 window, non-anamorphic in a 4:3 (if I'm not using FULL SCREEN mode).

I think I'd rather watch it in reasonable resolution at a smaller size at that point. Really, this is pretty much just academic now. I'm interested in what's going on. But it won't be changing my life. ;)

Just remember that upscaling does not add resolution. DVDs are still only 480x720 regardless of whether your player or your TV does the upscaling.

True anamorphic disks only began appearing around 1995/6, and it didn't really become standard issue until after 2000.

Actually, DVD was not released in the US until 1997. I bought my first player in 1999 and there were quite a few anamorphic discs available at that time (though I didn’t care much since I only had a 26” 4:3 TV). From the very beginning, there were some studios who believed in anamorphic and some that didn’t.

Hey guys... all great information here! Obviously, I could be totally full of hooey about which ones are anamorphic. It sure sounds like only the ones that are "windowboxing" (how many more of these terms can me make!?) are the only ones that are not anamorphic.

Anybody looking to buy a large collection of SD DVDs? :-) I've seen Blue Ray, but not on my fancy new Sansung 650. I'll bet it is dreamy. My current plan is to move my whole current collection out - except for a precious few - then buy a BR player and sign up for NetFlix.

I appreciate everybody's input here. And if anybody has more info on this subject, I'd love to hear it.

I appreciate everybody's input here. And if anybody has more info on this subject, I'd love to hear it.

It doesn't help with your problem, but I have notes on 4:3 letterboxed and DVD authoring here: Anamorphic vs 4:3 letterboxed DVDs

-Bill

Actually, DVD was not released in the US until 1997. I bought my first player in 1999 and there were quite a few anamorphic discs available at that time (though I didn’t care much since I only had a 26” 4:3 TV). From the very beginning, there were some studios who believed in anamorphic and some that didn’t.

Thank you, I stand corrected and I recall and agree your accurate history of anamorphic widescreen DVD mastering. My original DVD player cost me over $300, prior to that nearly $1000 for a LaserDisc, then in 2004 I paid $40 and $60 @ for 2 players that were region free, one broke and now $80 for the Sony upscaler.

Hey guys... all great information here! Obviously, I could be totally full of hooey about which ones are anamorphic. It sure sounds like only the ones that are "windowboxing" (how many more of these terms can me make!?) are the only ones that are not anamorphic.

Anybody looking to buy a large collection of SD DVDs? :-) I've seen Blue Ray, but not on my fancy new Sansung 650. I'll bet it is dreamy. My current plan is to move my whole current collection out - except for a precious few - then buy a BR player and sign up for NetFlix.

I appreciate everybody's input here. And if anybody has more info on this subject, I'd love to hear it.

Technology marches on, a problem with a sizeable collection is that it will become obsolete eventually, even for Blu Ray, its just a question of when. The "ultimate" resolution is the format the movie was actually shot in.

HD is not the ultimate, the spec for Quad HD is made, then what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdtv#High-Definition_Display_Resolutions

Yesterday, I saw the 1996 movie Twister on 1080i via Starz and frankly, what I did not see in theaters and 4:3 I now can see. The movie seems to have lost some charm because of it. The effects are showing its age but moreso, I can clearly see the very heavy makeup of the actors, they look like corpses, sorry to say!

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTMwNTQxOTUyOF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzkzMjA3MQ@@._V1._SX264_ SY399_.jpg

It doesn't help with your problem, but I have notes on 4:3 letterboxed and DVD authoring here: Anamorphic vs 4:3 letterboxed DVDs

-Bill
Thanks much! This, in fact, is EXACTLY the answer to my long-standing question. I finally understand what's going on here!

Technology marches on, a problem with a sizeable collection is that it will become obsolete eventually, even for Blu Ray,

I see Blu Ray as just a flash in the pan, actually. A last gasp for the spinning disk format. I might be totally wrong, but that's how I see it working out. I have no intention of building yet another collection. It will be borrow or rent from now on. In the grand scheme of things it will be better on the environment and better on the pocketbook (does anybody actually use a pocketbook any longer? - not sure I even know what one is!)

I've sorted through my current collection and will probably keep about 50 titles, and get rid of 200 or so.

There is software that will show the title characteristics. The only aspect ratios allowed for SD-DVD are 4:3 and 16:9. Non-anamorphic widescreen titles are 4:3.

There is also a flag in the DVD metadata available for non-anamorphic letterbox. I have an old Malata DVD player that will automatically zoom non-anamorphic discs if they're flagged properly.

That said, most non-anamorphic letterbox DVDs are flagged as simple 4:3. The player pillarboxes those with bars on all 4 sides.

darelldd, why don't you just post the titles of the discs you're watching so that people can confirm for you whether they're anamorphic or not?

darelldd, why don't you just post the titles of the discs you're watching so that people can confirm for you whether they're anamorphic or not?
Well, because at this point it is more trouble that it is worth. The ones that "windowbox" are for sure non anamorphic. And now I know what's going on... and am basically getting rid of my collection anyway.

I started buying DVDs in 2001. Even though I didn't have a widescreen TV, I always tried to buy the widescreen version of a movie because I knew I would get a widescreen TV some day. Now that I have a widescreen TV, I'm really pleased at how good anamorphic standard definition DVDs look on my new set, but disappointed to discover how many widescreen movies I bought are not anamorphic. Of course my new TV can expand a non-anamorphic DVD to fill the width of my set, but some of the detail is lost. I don't understand why non-anamorphic widescreen movies were ever released since they don't play back properly on a widescreen TV.

I don't understand why non-anamorphic widescreen movies were ever released since they don't play back properly on a widescreen TV.

From the article I posted above:

In 2000, Bill Hunt wrote:

So doing anamorphic on DVD is a win-win situation for everyone, right? Sure. But there was a time, early on in the history of the format, where the studios were reluctant. In many cases, they simply didn't understand the anamorphic feature of DVD. You'd be surprised how many studio executives in charge of DVD that I had to explain it to early on. And some were concerned that all that electronic "squishing and unsquishing" of the video signal would degrade the picture quality on current TVs. To be fair, some early players weren't so good at the process. But that problem has long since been resolved. Current DVD players almost universally render amazing widescreen images from anamorphic DVDs.

All said, it took a couple of years for some studios to finally make the move to anamorphic widescreen on DVD. Buena Vista and Fox have only recently started doing anamorphic transfers for their discs (Tarzan is anamorphic, for example, as will be Fox's upcoming Fight Club disc). But some studios have been doing right by DVD straight out of the gate, like Columbia TriStar, Warner Bros., New Line and DreamWorks (once they finally hopped on the DVD bandwagon). Others, like Paramount, MGM and Universal, soon adopted the feature on at least some of their releases. The bottom line, is that for many of the studios, anamorphic widescreen has become the rule for DVD, instead of the exception. And every major studio has now released at least a few anamorphic discs.

-Bill

Well, because at this point it is more trouble that it is worth. The ones that "windowbox" are for sure non anamorphic. And now I know what's going on... and am basically getting rid of my collection anyway.

There are two solutions to your problem. You could buy an Oppo 983H DVD player, which will scale non-anamorphic titles so they fill the screen properly with no distortion. Second, you could use software available online to backup your DVDs and re-encode them as anamorphic. The program basically lops off the top/bottom of the image and stretches the remaining picture to fill the image, i.e. it turns it into anamorphic, but doesn't add more detail.

There are two solutions to your problem. You could buy an Oppo 983H DVD player, which will scale non-anamorphic titles so they fill the screen properly with no distortion. Second, you could use software available online to backup your DVDs and re-encode them as anamorphic. The program basically lops off the top/bottom of the image and stretches the remaining picture to fill the image, i.e. it turns it into anamorphic, but doesn't add more detail.

More than two solutions! Getting modern disks (rented or purchased), I think, is the best option!

More than two solutions! Getting modern disks (rented or purchased), I think, is the best option!

Many titles have not had anamorphic upgrades.

-Bill

Many titles have not had anamorphic upgrades.

-Bill
Ah. I hadn't even considered that. All the ones that I'm interested are available in at LEAST anamorphic now. Many of them in Blu-Ray!