I'm trying to decide between these 2 TVs. The Samsung is about $200 more. I'd be watching mostly HD (football and prime time shows) and DVD (some blu-ray at some point), no gaming. Kids watch SD (maybe 1.5 hours/day).

Color, black levels, "motion blur", are important to me.

Suggestions?

If those three things are most important to you, you should be getting the plasma, as it will outperform the lcd in those areas.:)

what do owners think about these sets? Any issues? Likes or dislikes? Pros and cons of both.

Thanks

When I was looking for a new hdtv, it came down to the Panasonic TH-50PZ850,(which is better than the Panny you are interested in),and the Samsung.Wanted the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020 but was not in my price range.It was a tough choice,but ended up buying the Samsung LN46A650.Blacks were a tiny bit better on the Panny,but I liked the crisper picture and pop of the Sammy more.If you go to CNET they give a good review of the tv you are intrested and others.I watch a lot of sports and blu-ray on my tv,and both look great.Have not seen any motion blur at all and colors are very accurate.Everyone has different taste in what looks better, only should matter to you.

I bought a 50pz80 which has the same panel and controls as the pz85.

The pz80/85s have a red push that many people, including myself, find unacceptable. I think the Samsung is worth the extra $200. You may want to check out the Samsung pn50a550, which can be had for less than either and has one of the best pictures out there today when properly calibrated. Other than the red push that can't seem to be completely corrected, I find my pz80 to be an excellent TV.

How many hours a day will the TV be used total? How long do you plan on keeping the TV? 1.5 hours per day of 4:3 black bar SD material is a lot. Over a period of 5-10 years, uneven wear could be an issue.

Another thing to keep in mind is the Panasonics are supposedly "Wii remote proof". Meaning they are more resistant to flying objects. Doesn't matter to most people, but people with kids know how easily accidents can happen. Don't know how tough the Samsung plasma panels are, but generally plasma glass is stronger than plastic LCD screens.

Hopefully this helps more than it confuses. But really, only you can decide what your priorities are.

I bought a 50pz80 which has the same panel and controls as the pz85.

The pz80/85s have a red push that many people, including myself, find unacceptable. I think the Samsung is worth the extra $200. You may want to check out the Samsung pn50a550, which can be had for less than either and has one of the best pictures out there today when properly calibrated. Other than the red push that can't seem to be completely corrected, I find my pz80 to be an excellent TV.

How many hours a day will the TV be used total? How long do you plan on keeping the TV? 1.5 hours per day of 4:3 black bar SD material is a lot. Over a period of 5-10 years, uneven wear could be an issue.

Can't get the PN50A550, can't get anything bigger than a 46" (space restrictions).

The SD material can be "streched" to fill the screen.

The $200 extra for the LCD is not a concern, what is, is the motion blu issue. I normally watch stuff like Heros, Lost, and other prime time shows. I also watch a lot of football, HGTV, and Discovery. Do folks who what this TV see "motion blur" when they watch these types of shows? What about DVDs (action, sci-fi)?

Can't get the PN50A550, can't get anything bigger than a 46" (space restrictions).

The SD material can be "streched" to fill the screen.

The $200 extra for the LCD is not a concern, what is, is the motion blu issue. I normally watch stuff like Heros, Lost, and other prime time shows. I also watch a lot of football, HGTV, and Discovery. Do folks who what this TV see "motion blur" when they watch these types of shows? What about DVDs (action, sci-fi)?

Well, I don't technically have motion blur with my plasma, but I do still have macroblocking on over-the-air and Dish network programming. Motion is only as good as your source material.

I bought a 50pz80 which has the same panel and controls as the pz85.

The pz80/85s have a red push that many people, including myself, find unacceptable.


Is the red push really that bad? I was also considering the PZ800U, but it's at least $500 more than the PZ85 and is only available in a few retailers.

It hard to take peoples opinions on these things. I, like you, hate motion Blu and will ever own an LCD until that is completely gone. I think LCD's in general are softer that plasma's too.

Bottom line, you can see each TV at a major retailer. It's not optimal but it will give you a baseline of the type of picture you will get. Expect colors to be off and ignore how bright one looks compared to the other while in store. Things I would look at are motion, detail, noise... to get an overall idea about each set. Perhaps get a remote and tweak the settings a little closer to accurate. ;)

I don't know if Samsung's LCD's have this issue but I know a lot of their plasma's are plagued with pink hue on white screens. Mine just got this after 2 years, some have them immediately. Honestly, they are both great TV's, pick whatever has less issues. Go read each individual thread for each TV, see what sounds less prone to have major issues. It's sad that we have to shop that way... CE's would rather have the thinnest panel available rather than fix the issues with their last models. Gimmicks over quality! Sorry about that rant...

Is the red push really that bad? I was also considering the PZ800U, but it's at least $500 more than the PZ85 and is only available in a few retailers.

To me, yes. Until I made service menu adjustments everybody looked sunburned. Doesn't seem to bother some people. You'll only really know if you look for yourself.

To me, yes. Until I made service menu adjustments everybody looked sunburned.

So you fixed the issue then?

So you fixed the issue then?

From what I have been told here, it is a color decoding error, so it can never be truley fixed. It can be made to look pretty good though, although not up to the Samsung's level. It was a PITA to gather all the information to access the service menu and make the changes.

The best I can tell you is to take the info you have learned here and go look at the TVs in person, adjust them the best you can (in Movie and Cinema modes) and see if these issues matter to you.

From what I have been told here, it is a color decoding error, so it can never be truley fixed. It can be made to look pretty good though, although not up to the Samsung's level. It was a PITA to gather all the information to access the service menu and make the changes.

The best I can tell you is to take the info you have learned here and go look at the TVs in person, adjust them the best you can (in Movie and Cinema modes) and see if these issues matter to you.

I plan on calibrating which ever TV I get anyway (not professionally - using Avia)

I bought the LN46a650 almost 2 weeks ago. I am no video expert, and in fact was new to the whole 1080p when I started to do research in what tv to buy. All I can say is watch as much as you can of both IN THE STORE before you buy. I went to Video Only and was wow'd by the clear, glossy almost "soap opera" effect on the constant blue ray content being pumped to all the tv's. I got it home and hooked it up to my Comcast digital tuner box, and got one of the biggest head aches with nausea watching tv I ever got. Everything that was put through the tv came over as glossy. Series episodes, movies, everything. I tried as best as I could to counter it, but it stayed. It also left behind blocky tracers when there was movement on the screen. Yes to all who will reply here, I did every conceivable combination of menu adjustments possible....It got better, but it still messed with my brain.
Long story short, the salesguy looked at me as if I was crazy, when I told him of the nausea and I parked my butt in the store for a few hours watching plasmas and lcds on standard comcast cable and found the plasma to be much easier on my eye than the lcd.
I came from a Sony XBR picture tube, so I guess my expectation was lower to begin with, but the nausea and head ache were real, so I am not trying to make myself get something I researched and decided ON PAPER was great.
Watching a movie, that I am so used to viewing on film, that is somewhat grainy with texture and depth, was all washed and displayed as if it was shot with a video camera. My brain/eyes didn't like it, and the artifacting made me feel feel sick.

BTW..... they only have store credit, which expires in a year, so the plasma TH-42PZ85U I finally decided to get, will be getting a surround sound system with it......or maybe I need 3-4 digital cameras.....hehe. The price difference for me was 500-600 difference.
I was too excited to read store policy when I was buying it....my fault.
Maybe Christmas gifts this year will all be electronic.
Just watch it as much as possible is all the advice I can give you, before you buy.

[QUOTE=chrisped;14638835]I bought the LN46a650 almost 2 weeks ago. I am no video expert, and in fact was new to the whole 1080p when I started to do research in what tv to buy. All I can say is watch as much as you can of both IN THE STORE before you buy. I went to Video Only and was wow'd by the clear, glossy almost "soap opera" effect on the constant blue ray content being pumped to all the tv's. I got it home and hooked it up to my Comcast digital tuner box, and got one of the biggest head aches with nausea watching tv I ever got. Everything that was put through the tv came over as glossy. Series episodes, movies, everything. I tried as best as I could to counter it, but it stayed. It also left behind blocky tracers when there was movement on the screen. Yes to all who will reply here, I did every conceivable combination of menu adjustments possible....It got better, but it still messed with my brain.
Long story short, the salesguy looked at me as if I was crazy, when I told him of the nausea and I parked my butt in the store for a few hours watching plasmas and lcds on standard comcast cable and found the plasma to be much easier on my eye than the lcd.
I came from a Sony XBR picture tube, so I guess my expectation was lower to begin with, but the nausea and head ache were real, so I am not trying to make myself get something I researched and decided ON PAPER was great.
Watching a movie, that I am so used to viewing on film, that is somewhat grainy with texture and depth, was all washed and displayed as if it was shot with a video camera. My brain/eyes didn't like it, and the artifacting made me feel feel sick.QUOTE]


I bought my fist HD tv from Video Only, it was the best TV buying expereince I've had.

I plan on reading as much as possible before I go into the store cause I don't want to look at every TV they have, 2 or 3 max. First thing I plan on doing is chaging the settings from "Vivid" to Standard" or "Movie" so it'll look more realistic. I also plan asking them to switch to an HD cable feed and not dvd (did this for me last time).

I bought the LN46a650 almost 2 weeks ago. I am no video expert, and in fact was new to the whole 1080p when I started to do research in what tv to buy. All I can say is watch as much as you can of both IN THE STORE before you buy. I went to Video Only and was wow'd by the clear, glossy almost "soap opera" effect on the constant blue ray content being pumped to all the tv's. I got it home and hooked it up to my Comcast digital tuner box, and got one of the biggest head aches with nausea watching tv I ever got. Everything that was put through the tv came over as glossy. Series episodes, movies, everything. I tried as best as I could to counter it, but it stayed. It also left behind blocky tracers when there was movement on the screen. Yes to all who will reply here, I did every conceivable combination of menu adjustments possible....It got better, but it still messed with my brain.
Long story short, the salesguy looked at me as if I was crazy, when I told him of the nausea and I parked my butt in the store for a few hours watching plasmas and lcds on standard comcast cable and found the plasma to be much easier on my eye than the lcd.
I came from a Sony XBR picture tube, so I guess my expectation was lower to begin with, but the nausea and head ache were real, so I am not trying to make myself get something I researched and decided ON PAPER was great.
Watching a movie, that I am so used to viewing on film, that is somewhat grainy with texture and depth, was all washed and displayed as if it was shot with a video camera. My brain/eyes didn't like it, and the artifacting made me feel feel sick.
Sounds like the menu option you should've turned off was AMP...
personally I wouldn't buy any expensive TV that can't display 24fps correctly with all the options we have these days, so I'd step up to the 800U Panny.

First thing I plan on doing is chaging the settings from "Vivid" to Standard" or "Movie" so it'll look more realistic. I also plan asking them to switch to an HD cable feed and not dvd (did this for me last time).

On the Panasonics, use "Cinema". All other modes have excessive noise, especially in brighter settings.

Yeah I tried all AMP controls, 120Hz true motion on LOW, MED HIGH, etc etc
Believe me, I tried all combination of settings as I said above. I was in the menu for a number of hours.

Lcds seem to have an inherent way of dealing with motion and displaying content. You either like it or hate it, as many many posts before me have said.

Sounds like the menu option you should've turned off was AMP...
personally I wouldn't buy any expensive TV that can't display 24fps correctly with all the options we have these days, so I'd step up to the 800U Panny.


All sorts of complaints around here about the pz800 NOT doing 24fps correctly due to bad flicker. That's something you probably won't be able to check out in the store.

So I went into Video only to take a look at the 2 TVs. First thing I did was change the setting on both to "Standard". The Samsung looked way better. The were streaming some SD demo disc, and they were both hooked up via component. Saw some other LCDs (Tosh, Sony, LG) they didn't come close to the Samsung. Also saw the 800U, which was nice, but since they didn't have the 46 (no one does), it's a mute point.

went to another smaller store (no bright lights), hooked up HD cable, Sammy looked better.

Lol chris i think your post is a fine example of how Inaccurate "vivid" brighter and crappier lcd is comapared to plasma.

that brighter screen made you feel weird pretty much what everyone is trying to say.

lcd are no good lol they removed the matte screen what other good benefit can come out of it? a glossy screen on a lcd god they are crazy.




I bought the LN46a650 almost 2 weeks ago. I am no video expert, and in fact was new to the whole 1080p when I started to do research in what tv to buy. All I can say is watch as much as you can of both IN THE STORE before you buy. I went to Video Only and was wow'd by the clear, glossy almost "soap opera" effect on the constant blue ray content being pumped to all the tv's. I got it home and hooked it up to my Comcast digital tuner box, and got one of the biggest head aches with nausea watching tv I ever got. Everything that was put through the tv came over as glossy. Series episodes, movies, everything. I tried as best as I could to counter it, but it stayed. It also left behind blocky tracers when there was movement on the screen. Yes to all who will reply here, I did every conceivable combination of menu adjustments possible....It got better, but it still messed with my brain.
Long story short, the salesguy looked at me as if I was crazy, when I told him of the nausea and I parked my butt in the store for a few hours watching plasmas and lcds on standard comcast cable and found the plasma to be much easier on my eye than the lcd.
I came from a Sony XBR picture tube, so I guess my expectation was lower to begin with, but the nausea and head ache were real, so I am not trying to make myself get something I researched and decided ON PAPER was great.
Watching a movie, that I am so used to viewing on film, that is somewhat grainy with texture and depth, was all washed and displayed as if it was shot with a video camera. My brain/eyes didn't like it, and the artifacting made me feel feel sick.

BTW..... they only have store credit, which expires in a year, so the plasma TH-42PZ85U I finally decided to get, will be getting a surround sound system with it......or maybe I need 3-4 digital cameras.....hehe. The price difference for me was 500-600 difference.
I was too excited to read store policy when I was buying it....my fault.
Maybe Christmas gifts this year will all be electronic.
Just watch it as much as possible is all the advice I can give you, before you buy.

Out of those two TVs the 650s are better and the blacks are actually pretty close, make sure you get one without issues though. The 800Us are pretty nice too and has better viewing angles and comparable color. I wouldn't get the 80/85UU unless you see them first and see if the red push is bothersome.

Out of those two TVs the 650s are better and the blacks are actually pretty close, make sure you get one without issues though. The 800Us are pretty nice too and has better viewing angles and comparable color. I wouldn't get the 80/85UU unless you see them first and see if the red push is bothersome.

I can't get the 800u in a 46" and a 50", will not fit, so really it's come down between these 2.

the panasonic man because its a plasma and the samsung is a lcd so you will have more visable issues with lcd then with plasma, its an easy answer plasma technology is better for PQ

I can't get the 800u in a 46" and a 50", will not fit, so really it's come down between these 2.

Then my recommendation is the 650, I've owned the 85U and sold it because the red push gave everyone a sunburn. You can't fix color decoding with a calibration either, turning down the color will just desaturate the picture and the red faces will still be there. Other than that they are good TVs which is why the 800s are so good, they get the accuracy part right.

Just found out that I can get preferred pricing on the 850U (almost $200 less than the cheapest one I could fins on the web).

So how does this compare to the LN46A650? The Samsung is about the same price.

Hows the color? Any red push?

Again, I'd be watching 75% HD (25% SD) - mostly prime time shows, football, and 25% DVDs (will probably get blu-ray as well). I'm moving up from a HD CRT.

the 850u is a plasma right? in which case if it is then right there its an advantage question how much is your budget? the pioneer non elite are as low as $2,550 just a thought

Just found out that I can get preferred pricing on the 850U (almost $200 less than the cheapest one I could fins on the web).

So how does this compare to the LN46A650? The Samsung is about the same price.

Hows the color? Any red push?

Again, I'd be watching 75% HD (25% SD) - mostly prime time shows, football, and 25% DVDs (will probably get blu-ray as well). I'm moving up from a HD CRT.

I'd get the 850U, it's not quite as accurate as the 800 but it is much more flexible and can be calibrated pretty close to the 800. It's actually the top of Panasonic's line so if you can get one for a good price go for it. It will have much better viewing angles, picture uniformity and motion than the LCD and similar performance elsewhere. The only reason I could see wanting the 650 over an 850U is if you have a bright room, if you cannot control the light in your room plasma may be a bad choice.

the 850u is a plasma right? in which case if it is then right there its an advantage question how much is your budget? the pioneer non elite are as low as $2,550 just a thought

Budget for the TV is $1800


I'd get the 850U, it's not quite as accurate as the 800 but it is much more flexible and can be calibrated pretty close to the 800. It's actually the top of Panasonic's line so if you can get one for a good price go for it. It will have much better viewing angles, picture uniformity and motion than the LCD and similar performance elsewhere. The only reason I could see wanting the 650 over an 850U is if you have a bright room, if you cannot control the light in your room plasma may be a bad choice.

So LCD is a better choice if, it a bright room?
Lighting shouldn't be an issue.

So LCD is a better choice if, it a bright room?
Lighting shouldn't be an issue.

Lots of people generalize on this topic, but it's not that simple. Most LCDs are capable of putting out more light that most plasmas - you just crank up the backlight. Now, this is way brighter than necessary for "normal" home ambient lighting conditions. Typical plasma is plenty bright. But, if you've got a really bright room, or unfiltered rays of sunshine going across the screen, that amped up light output may be useful - it'll increase the apparent contrast ratio in bright rooms.

The other consideration is reflections. A plasma screen is glass, and will show reflections accordingly. They all have anti-glare coatings to one degree or another to minimize this, but it's there. LCD screens are plastic and many have a matte finish that diffuses reflections so you get fuzzy blobs instead of clear reflections. Note, the 650 Samsung and some Sony LCDs (and others I'm sure) have high gloss screens that according to just about every review you read are actually worse with reflections than the better plasmas. On the other side, Panasonic last year had a series of matte finish plasmas - I've got one and it's great.

So you can't generalize. Let's talk about your room, windows, lighting, where the TV will be sitting, etc and see if we can figure out what would work best for you.

jeff

So you can't generalize. Let's talk about your room, windows, lighting, where the TV will be sitting, etc and see if we can figure out what would work best for you.

jeff

So the TV will be mounted over the fire place (about 4' high). My main seating area (sofa) is about 10' directly in front of the TV. I have a corner window (on 2 walls, joined together) to the extreme right of the sofa (about 8' to the right). I have a lamp right next to the sofa (when it's on I can see it's reflection on my CRT - TV will be in the same place). However, I usually turn off the lamp and just use the kitchen lights (to the left), and there's no glare. I will be having can lights put in soon (so the light will focus downwards and not onto the TV).

During the day, when I watch TV, the blinds are closed, some light filters in, but there is currently no felection on the screen.

Since I have a CRT, and glare that I currently have, won't be a big issue since I'm used to it.

Hope this is enough info

IMHO, reflections & brightness don't sound like an issue for you to worry about. No bright, uncontrolled light sources between you and the TV or behind your seat. Diffuse light from the sides should present no problems. Plasma or those high gloss LCDs should both work fine.

jeff

IMHO, reflections & brightness don't sound like an issue for you to worry about. No bright, uncontrolled light sources between you and the TV or behind your seat. Diffuse light from the sides should present no problems. Plasma or those high gloss LCDs should both work fine.

jeff
Given the lighting situation and my viewing habits, which is the better choice?

Given the lighting situation and my viewing habits, which is the better choice?
Now we're getting into pure personal preference. I believe either set (still thinking PZ85 or A650?) would work fine with regards to the lighting. Both are very nice TVs. Conventional wisdom, reviews, and posts on this site indicate that the Panasonic has better black levels, typically superior plasma motion, uniformity, and viewing angles. Some complaints of color inaccuracy and less than stellar noise reduction on the PZ85. The A650 gets raves for it's color accuracy, adjustability, and 120Hz features (if you're into that).

There's nothing in your viewing habits that throws a red flag for plasma. You're here doing research so it follows that you'd be a conscientious owner willing to take the prudent, modest precautions called for with plasma.

Personally, I bought a plasma because I liked the picture better, it hit the right size to price point, and Panasonic was offering the matte screen plasma which was necessary given the lighting in my room.

If I were you I'd try to find a decent store that has these in a good viewing environment. Something like the Magnolia section at Best Buy, or a Meyer-Emco, Tweeter, etc. Don't even bother with a typical Best Buy, Circuit City, Costco, etc. Those are fine for price shopping after you've figured out which one you really prefer.

jeff

Now we're getting into pure personal preference. I believe either set (still thinking PZ85 or A650?) would work fine with regards to the lighting. Both are very nice TVs. Conventional wisdom, reviews, and posts on this site indicate that the Panasonic has better black levels, typically superior plasma motion, uniformity, and viewing angles. Some complaints of color inaccuracy and less than stellar noise reduction on the PZ85. The A650 gets raves for it's color accuracy, adjustability, and 120Hz features (if you're into that).

There's nothing in your viewing habits that throws a red flag for plasma. You're here doing research so it follows that you'd be a conscientious owner willing to take the prudent, modest precautions called for with plasma.

Personally, I bought a plasma because I liked the picture better, it hit the right size to price point, and Panasonic was offering the matte screen plasma which was necessary given the lighting in my room.

If I were you I'd try to find a decent store that has these in a good viewing environment. Something like the Magnolia section at Best Buy, or a Meyer-Emco, Tweeter, etc. Don't even bother with a typical Best Buy, Circuit City, Costco, etc. Those are fine for price shopping after you've figured out which one you really prefer.

jeff

Some of the discussion about noise on PZ85 is dependant on what your source is. Perhaps it is true that plugging a DVD direclty via Component into the TV might be a bit cleaner through some competitor product but I gotta tell ya. Driving DVD's through my BD30 Pannasonic Blueray and DVD upscaler is un friggin believable. Movies have never looked this good to me. This makes the unit's own upscaler irrelivent with DVDs. As for blue ray, I see no noise. Perhaps some extra details or even slightly more apparent grain in some backgrounds of some shots? But to me they are not what I understand as noise.

Where color is concearned, I guess the LCD will be brighter. It will come down to preference. I watch movies in a basement living room with a few lamps around. I have not seen a better picture ever. In the store it looked like crap. I almost opted out of the Plasmas. But I listened around here and took the plunge. I am glad I did. As for color accuracy? I guess if you are a professional calibrator who does it every day you might pick it out. I really don't see it. Everyone see color differently and without other models sitting next to it or a calibration tool, I doubt 85% of the people out there could tell me what TV they are looking at based on color output.

You cannot lose with either set IMO. But there is something sureal watching the PZ85 (not talking about IFC or whatever, just basic use). It's like having a really good 42" CRT with a crazy fine dot pitch. Every LCD I watch first gets me with colors leaping out at me and bright whites but then I start seeing aliasing which is NOT something I see on this PZ85.

Only LCD I would even cosider buying is Samsungs best 7 series or Sony's top LCD product. But at that money I would be comparing with a KURO. Then the head scratching starts all over again.

C.

Now we're getting into pure personal preference. I believe either set (still thinking PZ85 or A650?) would work fine with regards to the lighting. Both are very nice TVs. Conventional wisdom, reviews, and posts on this site indicate that the Panasonic has better black levels, typically superior plasma motion, uniformity, and viewing angles. Some complaints of color inaccuracy and less than stellar noise reduction on the PZ85. The A650 gets raves for it's color accuracy, adjustability, and 120Hz features (if you're into that).

There's nothing in your viewing habits that throws a red flag for plasma. You're here doing research so it follows that you'd be a conscientious owner willing to take the prudent, modest precautions called for with plasma.

Personally, I bought a plasma because I liked the picture better, it hit the right size to price point, and Panasonic was offering the matte screen plasma which was necessary given the lighting in my room.

If I were you I'd try to find a decent store that has these in a good viewing environment. Something like the Magnolia section at Best Buy, or a Meyer-Emco, Tweeter, etc. Don't even bother with a typical Best Buy, Circuit City, Costco, etc. Those are fine for price shopping after you've figured out which one you really prefer.

jeff


I'm actually deciding between the 850U and the A650. I can get the 850U for a decent price (cheaper that the Samsung). I'm guessing this (850U) will change things. I went to Magnolia (inside best buy) today to show the wife. She liked the A750! It's a "better looking" tv. The 650 had a split screen showing the effects of the 120hz thing, both sides looked crap. The 850U looked grainy, but after I swiched the setting to standard, it looked better. I'm leaning towards the 850U.

BTW does the 850U have color accuracy issues? What about the noise?

for some reason I thought that I could get the 850U for less than the A650, I didn't add the tax that Panasonic would charge (guess they're in CA). So now I can get the A650 for $200 less than the 850U. Why is this so hard!

for some reason I thought that I could get the 850U for less than the A650, I didn't add the tax that Panasonic would charge (guess they're in CA). So now I can get the A650 for $200 less than the 850U. Why is this so hard!

Paralysis by analysis :p

CNet seemed to think the 800 had an edge on color accuracy over the 850, which does seem odd. The 800 has a "THX" picture mode which apparently is dead on right out of the box. But, they do say that the 850 "...its color is still better than many high-end HDTVs on the market."

jeff

You can tweak lots of things on the 850 that you can't on the 800, there's a whole set of pro picture settings that you don't have on the 800. You have a choice between 2 color spaces, the 800 is locked to 1. There's also a gamma control option which should come in handy for making the non cinema (or reference as they call it) presets more usable. If I had a choice and the price was the same with the color being so close the 850 is a better choice.

You can tweak lots of things on the 850 that you can't on the 800, there's a whole set of pro picture settings that you don't have on the 800. You have a choice between 2 color spaces, the 800 is locked to 1. There's also a gamma control option which should come in handy for making the non cinema (or reference as they call it) presets more usable. If I had a choice and the price was the same with the color being so close the 850 is a better choice.

So between the 800U and the 850U, the consensus is that the 850U is a tad better. However is the A650 (LCD) better than the 850U? Those are the 2 I'm deciding between.

My choice would be the plasma but I would try to go and see them with your eyes, either way they are both pretty good TVs. Personally I dislike LCDs because they tend to not be black uniformly on the screen and this varies from TV to TV, it's really luck of the draw. It's especially noticeable at night and if really bad can creep into actual content (not just blacks). The same goes for colors, they will not always be uniform across the screen and can vary from different angles. The Panasonic will also do better at motion, with 900 lines of motion resolution compared to somewhere around 600 lines with the Samsung. Not to mention if the price is pretty much the same you are getting Panasonic's top TV however the 650 is only the middle of Samsung's lineup.

for some reason I thought that I could get the 850U for less than the A650, I didn't add the tax that Panasonic would charge (guess they're in CA). So now I can get the A650 for $200 less than the 850U. Why is this so hard!

Even if the retailer does not collect the tax, you are still legally responsible for paying it. So you should figure in tax for the A650 as well.

smjbh5

JMO: I read through the postings and your difficult decision between the plasma and LCD TV's which I was also faced with and the same models you're considering. The two issues that convinced me to go with the Samsung LN46A650 versus the Panny was the higher electric consumption on the Panny and higher heat output when you've got the TV on.

Didn't see any comments about these considerations and felt it should be something else to consider. Both are great TV's but I'm thoroughly pleased with my newly purchased LN46A650. By the way Big River has just reduced the price on the LN46A650 again!!!

Good luck!!!

smjbh5

JMO: I read through the postings and your difficult decision between the plasma and LCD TV's which I was also faced with and the same models you're considering. The two issues that convinced me to go with the Samsung LN46A650 versus the Panny was the higher electric consumption on the Panny and higher heat output when you've got the TV on.

Didn't see any comments about these considerations and felt it should be something else to consider. Both are great TV's but I'm thoroughly pleased with my newly purchased LN46A650. By the way Big River has just reduced the price on the LN46A650 again!!!

Good luck!!!

My pz80 is Energy Star rated.

Every person has different priorities, but IMO real-world power consumption is close enough not to bear much consideration, and any TV that size will kick out some heat. But I will admit one of the reasons I chose Panasonic over Samsung (both plasma) was the much lower operating temperature.

If you watch mostly dark material plasma can actually use less power than a comparable LCD. This is because plasma only lights the pixels it needs to, while LCD is always running full power.

So generally, yes, LCD normally uses less power, but people spending $2000 on a TV usually care more about overall TV picture performance than they do about saving a few bucks (if that) per month.

No, the 850 does not have the same accuracy issues as the 80/85. You have narrowed it down to two very well regarded TVs, I really think you could be happy with either one.

My pz80 is Energy Star rated.

Every person has different priorities, but IMO real-world power consumption is close enough not to bear much consideration, and any TV that size will kick out some heat. But I will admit one of the reasons I chose Panasonic over Samsung (both plasma) was the much lower operating temperature.

If you watch mostly dark material plasma can actually use less power than a comparable LCD. This is because plasma only lights the pixels it needs to, while LCD is always running full power.

So generally, yes, LCD normally uses less power, but people spending $2000 on a TV usually care more about overall TV picture performance than they do about saving a few bucks (if that) per month.

No, the 850 does not have the same accuracy issues as the 80/85. You have narrowed it down to two very well regarded TVs, I really think you could be happy with either one.

Power consumption does not factor into my decision (unless the crazy tv needs a dedicated power plant to run it!!). I'd be moving up from a 34" HD CRT (does that use more power?)

BTW, what is this "Big River" that folks here talk about. You can send me a PM on this if you want.

BTW, what is this "Big River" that folks here talk about. You can send me a PM on this if you want.

It's the major online retailer that is named after a very large river in South America. Real name is generally not used around here out of respect for the forum sponsers.

Don't worry, you're not the only one who has been confused by that. ;)

It's the major online retailer that is named after a very large river in South America. Real name is generally not used around here out of respect for the forum sponsers.

Don't worry, you're not the only one who has been confused by that. ;)

Now I get it!! Duh.

I'm still having trouble deciding between these 2. Went to BB, and for some reason the 650 was in the regular part of the store and the 850U was in the Magnolia part. So since the TVs were far a part I couldn't do a side by side comparison. However, the 850U didn't look all that impressive to me.

I think I'm reading too much cause I'm flip flopping all the time on this.

Would I be disappointed with either one of these?

Which is better for SD?

Also I can probably pick up the 650 + blu-ray for the price of the 850U.

Any update? which one did you get?

Any update? which one did you get?

Haven't bought one yet!

I'm stuck in this same exact predicament! Samsung LN46A650 Vs. Panasonic TH-46PZ85U

I would consider the 800u exact i cant afford it right now. I'm worried about black levels and blurring on the 650. I'm worried about the red push and image retention on the 85u.

I plan on watching movies at night but the TV will be used for broadcast for about 3 hours + a day. I will do a little gaming as well.

So the black levels on the 650 compared to the 85u are really not that different? What is gaming like on the 650?

Ugh!

I'm still having trouble deciding between these 2. Went to BB, and for some reason the 650 was in the regular part of the store and the 850U was in the Magnolia part. So since the TVs were far a part I couldn't do a side by side comparison. However, the 850U didn't look all that impressive to me.

I think I'm reading too much cause I'm flip flopping all the time on this.

Would I be disappointed with either one of these?

Which is better for SD?

Also I can probably pick up the 650 + blu-ray for the price of the 850U.

You won't be disappointed with either. I have the 46A650 and my brother has the Panny. Don't believe all the hype, both look good to me. The Samsung 6/7/8 series to me have some of the pictures out there (when set up properly) and the panasonic plasma look darn good too. With the Samsung, you will have to dial in the proper settings to avoid the common pitfalls reported here and elsewhere. Stay away from Samsung's discrete "entertainment modes "and watch all programming in Movie mode and set color Temp to Warm2. Leave AutoMotionPlus OFF if you are watching 1080/24p from Blu-ray. Otherwise, leave it on LOW or OFF for lower quality sources in my opinion. Personally, I like the more vivid colors of the LCD compared to the more natural palette of the Plasma.

I'm stuck in this same exact predicament! Samsung LN46A650 Vs. Panasonic TH-46PZ85U

I would consider the 800u exact i cant afford it right now. I'm worried about black levels and blurring on the 650. I'm worried about the red push and image retention on the 85u.

I plan on watching movies at night but the TV will be used for broadcast for about 3 hours + a day. I will do a little gaming as well.

So the black levels on the 650 compared to the 85u are really not that different? What is gaming like on the 650?

Ugh!

For the 650, keep the black light around 3 and experiment with the picture controls and your picture will deliver the best compromise between black levels and overall richness and pop. I keep mine at 3 and toggle the energy savings modes to control the overall brightness. I calibrated my set with HD Essentials and have not found any flaws in actual programming material. The 650 has a TON of picture settings and control so take your time to utitlize them to their fullest- it will be worth it and you'll be blown away once you have them dialed in correctly. Some friends watched Transformers Blu-ray last night and were wowed. That is a movie with tons of motion and while a plasma would deliver better dynamic resolution, you'd probably have to view them side by side to notice.


DirecTV HD channels look really good and watching football is great even with AMP on low. I usually watch the nerd channels- HistoryHD, NatGeoHD, ScienceHD, etc- all look good to me and they are 720p.

I'm not into video games so I can't comment how well it works- sorry.

LCDs are lighter and more energy efficient than plasmas as well but that's not an important factor to all people. As I said on the previous post, I like both my LCD and brother's plasma so just pick the one you like the most and go with your gut. :D

Read the bold, enough said, PQ over Power usuage otherwise get an eco tv lol.

My pz80 is Energy Star rated.

Every person has different priorities, but IMO real-world power consumption is close enough not to bear much consideration, and any TV that size will kick out some heat. But I will admit one of the reasons I chose Panasonic over Samsung (both plasma) was the much lower operating temperature.

If you watch mostly dark material plasma can actually use less power than a comparable LCD. This is because plasma only lights the pixels it needs to, while LCD is always running full power.

So generally, yes, LCD normally uses less power, but people spending $2000 on a TV usually care more about overall TV picture performance than they do about saving a few bucks (if that) per month.

No, the 850 does not have the same accuracy issues as the 80/85. You have narrowed it down to two very well regarded TVs, I really think you could be happy with either one.


Smjbh5 for SD panasonic is better then the samsung, Also read how people are saying to adjust this turn off that etc etc on the lcd, and then you have less motion resolution and motion blurr amog viewing angles issues black issues Sample n hold Uneven backlighting clouds lol more then enough issues to make me not consider lcd at all.

I'm still having trouble deciding between these 2. Went to BB, and for some reason the 650 was in the regular part of the store and the 850U was in the Magnolia part. So since the TVs were far a part I couldn't do a side by side comparison. However, the 850U didn't look all that impressive to me.

I think I'm reading too much cause I'm flip flopping all the time on this.

Would I be disappointed with either one of these?

Which is better for SD?

Also I can probably pick up the 650 + blu-ray for the price of the 850U.

"Smjbh5 for SD panasonic is better then the samsung, Also read how people are saying to adjust this turn off that etc etc on the lcd, and then you have less motion resolution and motion blurr amog viewing angles issues black issues Sample n hold Uneven backlighting clouds lol more then enough issues to make me not consider lcd at all."

Will the casual user notice all of the things mentioned in there forums? I think not. I think a lot of stuff here is blown out of proportion. Of all the people I know with HiDef flat panel sets, plasma or LCD, none that I know complain once their set is properly set-up. While I tend to notice which ones have better pic quality, they do not and are pleased by the marked increase in quality over the SD sets that are being replaced. I'm always cautious of people who always quote specific laboratory tests as proof that one tech is totally superior than another. The above average LCDs and Plasmas will be good enough for 99% of buyers.

I spent some time with both an LN52A650 and a 50PZ85 this weekend. The 650 was at my uncle's, watching some college basketball in HD via Fios. The PZ85 at a buddy's, watching The Dark Knight on bluray.

I believe my friend set up his PZ85 using the recommended settings from CNet's review. It looked great. Very natural, good blacks, great detail, great motion, etc.

My uncle's A650 seemed to be in some sort of "Vivid" mode. The whites were blazing white, edges all seemed ultra sharp (various on screen graphics had all sorts of jaggies - sorta the opposite of what you see with good anti-aliasing), and the picture was very "cool". The court had a very washed out, pale appearance - very much the opposite of the richness I see on my 50PX77. Everyone commented how bright the TV was. I thought it looked awful, but I'm not going to make any grand conclusions since I'm 99% certain he had it set up poorly. There was some flashlighting I think it's called along the left and bottom sides.

I can say for certain that the PZ85's screen is better with reflections, no contest. They were clear but somewhat muted, the 650 was mirror-like. I prefer the matte screen on my PX77, but alas it's no longer available.

jeff

buzzy first learn to quote if you are going to quote me, Second when the average user buy the tv then over time he or she will notice this issue then either regreat the purchase or look it up then will find avs forums, from there its self explanatory so might as well just tell the person what to expect BEFORE they have the tv. I amog a few others point out the issues of regardless of what tv brand or technology, I could careless what brand is however i do want the best possible PQ, or in this case i would want to buy the better tv for the comparable price.

The op wants to know which is better in SD the panasonic, I just pionted out a few flaws that lcd has just to let him know what to expect because you will notice it as you keep the tv set for more then a few days, However from store display you probably wont notice for many reasons.


"Smjbh5 for SD panasonic is better then the samsung, Also read how people are saying to adjust this turn off that etc etc on the lcd, and then you have less motion resolution and motion blurr amog viewing angles issues black issues Sample n hold Uneven backlighting clouds lol more then enough issues to make me not consider lcd at all."

Will the casual user notice all of the things mentioned in there forums? I think not. I think a lot of stuff here is blown out of proportion. Of all the people I know with HiDef flat panel sets, plasma or LCD, none that I know complain once their set is properly set-up. While I tend to notice which ones have better pic quality, they do not and are pleased by the marked increase in quality over the SD sets that are being replaced. I'm always cautious of people who always quote specific laboratory tests as proof that one tech is totally superior than another. The above average LCDs and Plasmas will be good enough for 99% of buyers.

Just sold my XBR5 (HUGE LCD GUY for years) and I went with the 58" 850U. I never thought I'd say this but it blows away my LCD.

gus738- I quoted you just fine. You knew who I was talking to, did you not?

I did not insinuate that you were a brand or specific technology snob. I was warning him of others who blow things out of proportion. To me, SD looks horrible on both technologies and that just comes with the territory. If you want the best SD performance, a good SD CRT will run circles around both LCD and Plasma. The primary focus of these sets is to provide excellent HD pictures. I'll have to watch some addtional SD material on the Panasonic to see if I notice any difference between it and the Sammy LCD. From my recollection, I can't recall a marked difference between the two that would lean me one way or the other.

when i meant to quote me i meant to use [ quote ] then [/ quote ]

as far as the CRT TUBE on SD content your right but at that point we have to consider size dot pitch etc etc.

As far as the samsung vs panasonic, the panasonic has a very very nice processing that is right behind pioneer. mind you pioneer is the BEST FLAT SCREEN for SD content but behind them is panasonic.

gus738- I quoted you just fine. You knew who I was talking to, did you not?

I did not insinuate that you were a brand or specific technology snob. I was warning him of others who blow things out of proportion. To me, SD looks horrible on both technologies and that just comes with the territory. If you want the best SD performance, a good SD CRT will run circles around both LCD and Plasma. The primary focus of these sets is to provide excellent HD pictures. I'll have to watch some addtional SD material on the Panasonic to see if I notice any difference between it and the Sammy LCD. From my recollection, I can't recall a marked difference between the two that would lean me one way or the other.

The $200 extra for the LCD is not a concern, what is, is the motion blu issue. I normally watch stuff like Heros, Lost, and other prime time shows. I also watch a lot of football, HGTV, and Discovery. Do folks who what this TV see "motion blur" when they watch these types of shows? What about DVDs (action, sci-fi)?

I have the 650 LCD. Motion blur on Heroes/Lost etc is really bad, you have to turn on AMP Low to make it go away. Samsung has greatly improved AMP Low so that it's much less intrusive, but you'll still see some of the soap opera effect. If you hate that, you may not like the TV. I pretty much have to use AMP Low on all TV content, but can leave it off for DVDs or Blu-Ray, where I see no blur on most titles.

I don't know if the 85U is any better though - i see the same blur in the stores, but haven't had much chance to play with one to see if it's a setting or source problem.

blurr will be content on source from store as its very conpressed. plasma dont share the same issues as lcd with motion blurr

blurr will be content on source from store as its very conpressed. plasma dont share the same issues as lcd with motion blurr

Why would high compression make a plasma blur? Not that I disagree - for I see more blur on my LCD the worse the source. But if plasma is truly much better than LCD in motion, it shouldn't blur the same way.

Why would high compression make a plasma blur? Not that I disagree - for I see more blur on my LCD the worse the source. But if plasma is truly much better than LCD in motion, it shouldn't blur the same way.

It doesn't make a plasma blur. If you are seeing the same "blur" on LCD and plasma, you are not seeing blur, you are seeing macroblocking from a compressed source.

Don't forget that not everybody can see motion blur on LCDs. So it is perfectly possible for somebody not to notice any difference in motion handling between a plasma and an LCD.

It doesn't make a plasma blur. If you are seeing the same "blur" on LCD and plasma, you are not seeing blur, you are seeing macroblocking from a compressed source.

Don't forget that not everybody can see motion blur on LCDs. So it is perfectly possible for somebody not to notice any difference in motion handling between a plasma and an LCD.

Hmm, CNET must be blind too, since they saw blur on plasmas.

we watched a high-definition football game with the best display in the test (the Pioneer PDP-5020FD plasma) placed right next to the worst (the Samsung LN46A550--the only LCD in the test without a 120Hz mode) and we found it hard to detect more blurring in the Samsung LCD, even when paying close attention to potentially blurrier areas, such as the hash marks when the camera follows a kickoff downfield or the churning legs beneath the return man. For two displays with such disparate results according to the test pattern, I think most people would expect to see more of a difference. "Difference" is the key word here; we did perceive a good deal of blurring in many fast moving shots on both displays, but either that blur was inherent in the source (usually a consequence of quick camera movement) or was a consequence of the brain's inability to process fast-moving details. In any case, most of the blur we saw couldn't be faulted on the displays. This issue raises one of the most-important and tricky question TV reviewer's face: If a difference revealed by a test pattern doesn't translate to any significant difference that experienced reviewers can detect with real program material, how worthwhile is it?

Hmm, CNET must be blind too, since they saw blur on plasmas.

Um, your CNET quote basically says the same thing I did.... :rolleyes:

..we did perceive a good deal of blurring in many fast moving shots on both displays, but either that blur was inherent in the source (usually a consequence of quick camera movement) or was a consequence of the brain's inability to process fast-moving details. In any case, most of the blur we saw couldn't be faulted on the displays.

This is not LCD blur, which is due to sample and hold and not seen by everybody.

Um, your CNET quote basically says the same thing I did.... :rolleyes:



This is not LCD blur, which is due to sample and hold and not seen by everybody.

nowhere in the entire article on motion blur does CNET say they see more motion blur on LCDs, in real content. On test patterns of course they saw a huge difference.

when i meant to quote me i meant to use [ quote ] then [/ quote ]

as far as the CRT TUBE on SD content your right but at that point we have to consider size dot pitch etc etc.

As far as the samsung vs panasonic, the panasonic has a very very nice processing that is right behind pioneer. mind you pioneer is the FLAT SCREEN for SD content but behind them is panasonic.

I watched the Panasonic again on Tuesday but only HD content. My sister-in-law doesn't not like to watch SD after getting used to watching HD in the last two weeks. I'm going to give them my Sony S350 Blu-ray player once I replace it with a Panasonic BD35 so I'll really be able to give a good comparison for HD content. I'm inclined to agree that Plasma has better SD PQ because it's hard to imagine SD content looking any worse than on my LCD.

i'll try to make it more clear please excuse me, plasma dont have issues with motion blurr because the are instant on and off, so speed wise for sports and games and fast action movies etc etc PLASMA IS THE WAY TO GO.

when you are watching content that is conpressed to the eye you see blurry but its actually macroblocking as said before. the less conpreess the better the source the easier is to compare and see between plasma and lcd.

To me lcd has to many issues to consider it a tv, its improving sure but when plasma is out here and for better quality AND sometimes lower price why not go with plasma? anyways thats my take

Why would high compression make a plasma blur? Not that I disagree - for I see more blur on my LCD the worse the source. But if plasma is truly much better than LCD in motion, it shouldn't blur the same way.

i'll try to make it more clear please excuse me, plasma dont have issues with motion blurr because the are instant on and off, so speed wise for sports and games and fast action movies etc etc PLASMA IS THE WAY TO GO.

when you are watching content that is conpressed to the eye you see blurry but its actually macroblocking as said before. the less conpreess the better the source the easier is to compare and see between plasma and lcd.

To me lcd has to many issues to consider it a tv, its improving sure but when plasma is out here and for better quality AND sometimes lower price why not go with plasma? anyways thats my take

My understanding is that CRT shows a lot less motion blur than plasma, which again is better than LCD. Personally I can't tell much difference between LCD vs plasma, both have a lot more blur than the HD CRT i just sold, somewhat regrettably. Actually the expensive Pioneers look more like my CRT, but a Panasonic looks no better than my 650.

the HD CRT TUBEs where are about 36" or 38" in widescreen were the best but beyond that the only closes thing to DATE is the pioneer elite. nothing else is out now.